GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: Brewski on April 13, 2007, 11:43:33 AM

Title: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: Brewski on April 13, 2007, 11:43:33 AM
I have liked all that I've heard (not that there's much!) by Claude Vivier, especially Lonely Child and Orion.  Tomorrow afternoon I'm finally seeing Kopernikus, the first half of Rêves d’un Marco Polo, and can't wait since Lis and others have raved about it. 

--Bruce

(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeVideoArt/Large/87/260787.jpg)
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: Maciek on April 13, 2007, 02:43:49 PM
Well, what can I say? That copy for me still hasn't surfaced. But I'll join in as soon as it does! ;D The anticipation is killing me, though. ;)

Maciek
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: Brewski on April 16, 2007, 01:03:39 PM
On Saturday I saw some of Vivier's Rêves d’un Marco Polo, and mostly enjoyed it.  We watched the Marco Polo disc (the other one is Kopernikus) including Shiraz, for solo piano (stunningly played by Marc Couroux), Lonely Child (with Susan Narucki singing in radiant form), Zipangu, Wo bist du Licht! (with Kathryn Harries), and the amazing finale, Glaubst du an die Unsterblichkeit der Seele (Do you believe in the immortality of the soul) (also with Narucki, who is just superb).

It is staged by Pierre Audi on a huge steel catwalk-type structure (for the Netherlands Opera), with the ASKO and Schoenberg Ensembles playing magnificently, conducted by Reinbert de Leeuw.  Vivier's sound world is passionate, gutsy and often sad, particularly the finale, which was left unfinished and has Narucki just ending in mid-sentence.  You can hear the occasional influences of so-called "spectral" composers in his writing, but Vivier is hard to categorize, which makes him so interesting.

Almost more compelling was the hour-long documentary on his life by Cherry Duyns, who uses interviews with people who knew him, some obviously rare footage of the composer, and footage from the rehearsals for the works on the DVD.  Given that Vivier's music is not performed all that often, it is wonderful to have it done so well here, and filmed so beautifully. 

--Bruce
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: not edward on February 22, 2008, 05:13:57 AM
Bringing this thread back to life: a Guardian article about Vivier today mentions an upcoming webcast of his music:

http://music.guardian.co.uk/classical/story/0,,2258674,00.html
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: Lethevich on February 22, 2008, 05:18:54 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21TAVKW2ZAL._AA130_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vivier-Prologue-pour-Marco-Polo/dp/B0000041EX/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203686248&sr=1-3)

I have this disc somewhere, the only I have heard by Vivier. It's extremely impressive. I generally find modernism a bit difficult, but like Berio, I found Vivier's sound world very easy to accept, and with a fair bit of emotion involved.
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: springrite on February 22, 2008, 05:21:20 AM
Another composer whom I have heard so much of but have never heard a single note! So much to explore. So little time (and resources).

I know he is very original, but whose music is it closest to?
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: not edward on February 22, 2008, 05:22:36 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21TAVKW2ZAL._AA130_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vivier-Prologue-pour-Marco-Polo/dp/B0000041EX/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203686248&sr=1-3)

I have this disc somewhere, the only I have heard by Vivier. It's extremely impressive. I generally find modernism a bit difficult, but like Berio, I found Vivier's sound world very easy to accept, and with a fair bit of emotion involved.
That's a phenomenal disc, and it's a great shame that it's out of print. It would definitely be my prime recommendation for anyone interested in the composer.

Most of the other discs I've seen have little distribution outside of Canada, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: not edward on February 22, 2008, 05:24:31 AM
Another composer whom I have heard so much of but have never heard a single note! So much to explore. So little time (and resources).

I know he is very original, but whose music is it closest to?
Nobody, really. There is some similarity to the spectralist school, and his use of diatonic material within a non-tonal context has some parallels to the later Ligeti, while the ecstatic, remote language might remind some of Scriabin or Stockhausen.
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: Brewski on February 22, 2008, 07:42:22 AM
Nobody, really. There is some similarity to the spectralist school, and his use of diatonic material within a non-tonal context has some parallels to the later Ligeti, while the ecstatic, remote language might remind some of Scriabin or Stockhausen.

Edward, thanks for the info about the broadcast, and Lethe, other than the DVD I think that de Leeuw recording is the only one I have, too.  Well worth seeking out. 

Like that description of his work above, too.  Like some other composers, I find I can't listen to a huge amount of his work at one sitting--just too intense--but his best works definitely repay repeated hearings.

--Bruce
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: uffeviking on February 22, 2008, 08:32:20 AM
Revival of this thread makes me very happy! Thank you Edward!  :-*

I would like to remind you of the post by bhodges:


« on: April 13, 2007, 01:43:33 PM

with the cover of the one and only video of Vivier's work available. It is fascinating to actually see the musicians emitting the sounds, the music, Vivier created; and a true creation they are because as has been said above: Vivier is not related to or close to any other composer. It's all Vivier!

I have another Vivier CD issued by KAIROS with three compositions:

Orion 1979 für Orchester
Siddharta 1976 für Orchester in acht Gruppen
Cinq chansons pour percussion 1980

I'll try to track down the source of the DC.  ;)

Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: springrite on February 22, 2008, 08:35:05 AM
So the DVD is available? I might be going to the States in early May for less than a week. If I do I'd be busy like a bee but, if I get a chance I may look for it.
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: uffeviking on February 22, 2008, 08:35:18 AM
That was easy: Amazon has it:

http://www.amazon.com/Claude-Vivier-Siddartha-chansons-percussion/dp/B000KJTGXI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203698020&sr=1-2
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: springrite on February 22, 2008, 08:38:22 AM
Good!  I will see if I can get my (indirect) contact person there to order it for me so I can pick it up when I am there.

BTW, we are planning an Olympics theme concert in Washington DC (or University of Maryland), 100 days before the opening.
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: uffeviking on February 22, 2008, 08:38:41 AM
Hey! amazon has the other one too - if you have 80 bucks! That's what it will run to with shipping and handling for a USED disc:

http://www.amazon.com/Vivier-Lonely-Zipangu-James-Ottaway/dp/B0000041EX/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203698020&sr=1-3
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: springrite on February 22, 2008, 08:40:50 AM
Hey! amazon has the other one too - if you have 80 bucks! That's what it will run to with shipping and handling for a USED disc:

http://www.amazon.com/Vivier-Lonely-Zipangu-James-Ottaway/dp/B0000041EX/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1203698020&sr=1-3
Very tempting but I don't want to dip into Kimi's formula and diaper budget!
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: not edward on March 28, 2008, 07:08:12 AM
The aforementioned Vivier webcast is available at http://www.psappha.com/webcast.asp now.
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: Brewski on March 28, 2008, 08:03:18 AM
Thanks for posting this, edward!  Their other concerts also look quite interesting!  And believe it or not, I received a postcard announcement from Psappha awhile back--alas, I couldn't hop across the pond to the concert  ;D but I enjoyed getting it.

--Bruce
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: uffeviking on March 28, 2008, 08:11:33 AM
And since I have nothing else to do at a quarter to nine in the morning, I am watching it and enjoy every note! My thanks also, edward!  :-*

Of course I could play it later in the evening, but I simply can not wait many hours to hear this performance! - It's book-marked. -

Lis
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: Henk on March 28, 2008, 03:39:49 PM
I also haven't listened to anything by Vivier. I'm very curious. Interesting DVD, Bruce. I recently listened very quickly to a cd of Vivier but I didn't buy it. This cd, already mentioned in this thread:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41F6PQ89HYL._AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: Brünnhilde ewig on June 16, 2009, 03:10:16 PM
Over a year later, Claude Vivier is at GMG again because I just read in the program listing of this year's Prom's that his Orion will be performed!

I spent a good part of this afternoon watching the astounding DVD of his Rêves d'un Marco Polo. I still can not explain Vivier, he can not be explained, he simply is. A weak attempt would be to explain in the same category as Richard Wagner. Wagner did something that has never been done before him, a Gesamtkunstwerk; Vivier wrote a new creation to be performed on stage, any stage. Subscribers to Gramophone can read an article about him in this month's issue. - page 47 -

We lost him, nothing more to listen to created by this genius.
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: Brewski on June 17, 2009, 04:45:09 AM
Thanks for that nice post, Lis, and I like hearing that his work is still on the radar.  Just imagine what he might have created if he had lived longer...

PS, that's a great Proms program! 

Charles Dutoit, conductor
Martha Argerich, piano
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra

Vivier: Orion (UK premiere)
Ravel: Piano Concerto in G major
Prokofiev: Piano Concerto No.1 in D flat major
Musorgsky, orch. Ravel: Pictures at an Exhibition

--Bruce
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: Brünnhilde ewig on June 17, 2009, 04:57:13 AM
Bruce, while I watched his Marco Poloagain yesterday I was wondering if there exists an issue of just the piano section shiraz. It's awesome and surely there is another pianist alive besides Marc Couroux capable of performing it.  ???
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: not edward on June 17, 2009, 10:17:14 AM
There's a recording of Shiraz on the CBC's Montreal Postmoderne disc:

http://www.musiccentre.ca/apps/index.cfm?fuseaction=search.dspItemDetails&buyItemsID=124

It's only $6 Canadian (what is that, $5.99 US these days) currently, and a real bargain IMO.
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: Brewski on June 17, 2009, 10:32:22 AM
Thanks edward--just ordered it!   :D  The rest of the program looks interesting, too.

--Bruce
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: Brünnhilde ewig on June 18, 2009, 05:56:30 AM
Ordered it too - but the postage is almost two bucks more than the price of the CD! Is the Canadian postal system hand-delivering it to me by one of the countries handsome Mounties??  ::)
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: UB on June 18, 2009, 07:35:06 AM
Edward - Do you have the four CD set of his music from CBC that is part of their Anthology of Canadian Music series?

It is good to read about this very talented and seldom heard Canadian composer. Has anyone heard Orion? I was wondering if it was worth buying the Kairos cd to get it.

Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: Brewski on June 18, 2009, 07:42:17 AM
Edward - Do you have the four CD set of his music from CBC that is part of their Anthology of Canadian Music series?

It is good to read about this very talented and seldom heard Canadian composer. Has anyone heard Orion? I was wondering if it was worth buying the Kairos cd to get it.

Am I going to have to drag out my credit card again?   ;D  ;D  ;D

Haven't heard Orion, to the best of my knowledge. 

--Bruce
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: Brünnhilde ewig on June 18, 2009, 08:28:29 AM
Bruce: Four CD set? I have a KAIROS, 0012472KAI with

Orion
Siddharta
Cinq chanson pour percussion

All on one CD. Saved you some money, didn't I?  0:)
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: Brewski on June 18, 2009, 08:56:21 AM
Bruce: Four CD set? I have a KAIROS, 0012472KAI with

Orion
Siddharta
Cinq chanson pour percussion

All on one CD. Saved you some money, didn't I?  0:)

Oh thanks, Lis.  Yes, I will probably order the Kairos first.  (Other than that DVD, I seem to have only one Vivier disc: the one with Lonely Child and Zipangu, conducted by De Leeuw.)

--Bruce
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: springrite on June 18, 2009, 08:58:31 AM
I have no Vivier in my collection. Last year I ordered one and after 3 months, I got an e-mail telling me the order is cancelled because it was out of stock. I hate it when that happens.
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: ChamberNut on June 18, 2009, 08:59:03 AM
Outside of Canada, would Claude Vivier be viewed as the greatest Canadian composer?
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: Brewski on June 18, 2009, 09:07:33 AM
Outside of Canada, would Claude Vivier be viewed as the greatest Canadian composer?

An interesting premise, and you could be right.  IMHO it's hard to say because he died so young and wasn't able to create a huge body of work. 

Who would you choose?  (Or nominate.)

--Bruce
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: Brünnhilde ewig on June 18, 2009, 09:21:30 AM
I definitely would call him a French composer. He left Canada, where he had composed very little, because then he was not celebrated as Canada's greatest composer. In fact he was barely recognised, whereas his reception in France was enthusiastic and his genius was recognised.
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: UB on June 18, 2009, 11:00:53 AM
Lis - the 4 CD set has 15 works and a documentary but it does not have Orion. Can you compare Orion with any other of his works - for instance does it have about the same soundworld as Siddharta?
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: springrite on June 18, 2009, 03:49:07 PM
He's Canadian?

I knew so little about Canadian composers, if I HAD TO name one, I can only come up with one name: Glenn Gould.
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: Brünnhilde ewig on June 18, 2009, 06:43:10 PM
In one of my earlier posts I mentioned this month's article in Gramophone about Vivier. One sentence: "He complained that Canada was a compositional backwater and relocated to Paris to work on an opera inspired by the life of Tschaikovsky.
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: timnehguy on June 20, 2009, 03:13:19 PM
Vivier's "Lonely Child" is here - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2735391902424403560

A friend just sent me the link today.  Does anyone have any idea what the text is about?  I can't find anything on the Internet...

Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: Brünnhilde ewig on June 20, 2009, 05:46:21 PM
All I can do is to quote the short paragraph in the booklet from the DVD:

"The Youth of Marco Polo"
A song of loneliness, melody coloured by carefully constructed timbral chords. The music finally returns to a chord, then an interval, until all that remains is the opening melody.


So far about the music, but the meaning is not quite clear. Even if he connects the loneliness to Marco Polo, maybe it has something to do with Vivier's loneliness, he never knew his birth parents.
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: UB on June 23, 2009, 09:06:23 AM
Vivier at the Proms - Prom 60

In the International Year of Astronomy, Claude Vivier's intriguing exploration of the echoing vastnesses of outer space is brought to the UK by Charles Dutoit, who conducted its 1980 premiere in Montreal.

Vivier Orion (UK premiere) (13 mins)
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: Sean on June 27, 2009, 11:37:19 PM
I've just borrowed the CD with Prologue pour un Marco Polo, Bouchara, Zipangu and Lonely child- it's fairly unusual and keeps the attention but shows Stockhausen's influence and the pieces are basically classically organized with clear sense of departure and return, like some electronic music.
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: karlhenning on July 09, 2009, 02:44:07 AM
. . . it's fairly unusual and keeps the attention but shows Stockhausen's influence . . . .

I am trying to understand the use of the conjunction but here . . . .
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: Sean on July 09, 2009, 04:39:42 AM
Don't worry, I was just trying to say that the influence of his German sojourn is a too bit obvious. He managed to find a voice though, which is more than some.
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: not edward on July 09, 2009, 06:31:49 AM
There is definitely something in common between the soundworld of late Vivier and the Licht-era Stockhausen, but I'd venture to suggest that the works of Vivier's last five or so years sound nothing like any other composer. (By contrast, I find a lot of his earlier work rather dated and anonymous.)
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: snyprrr on June 03, 2010, 03:06:58 PM
In this boxset 'Dutch Miracle' is the first Vivier I've heard, a,...scene?,...I don't know, but it's 9mins. of what sounds like,...mmm,....,uh,

It's called Glaubst du an die Unsterblichkeit der Seele (anyone?), from 1983, the year of the composer's murder. There are singers, and a speaker, and an ensemble. I haven't heard Die Soldaten, but this is partly what I imagine it sounds like. The end result is like taperecording the party of someone who will commit suicide later that evening. There is ranting :o!!

I thought Vivier was going to be a whole lot more,...mmm,...musical? This is dreary dreary, southside gutter music. Perhaps this is what a love-letter to a male prostitute sounds like? Creepy! ;D
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: UB on June 03, 2010, 07:20:05 PM
You can see a performance of this unfinished work here (http://www.psappha.com/watch-and-listen/claude-vivier-%281948-83%29---glaubst-du-an-die-unsterblichkeit-der-seele.aspx)

It is interesting that he was writing a work about the immortality of the soul when he was killed.
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on June 03, 2010, 10:43:22 PM
It's called Glaubst du an die Unsterblichkeit der Seele (anyone?),

"Do You Believe in the Immortality of the Soul?"
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: UB on June 04, 2010, 12:19:28 AM
If you are interested in listening to almost all of Vivier's music you should go to CMC (http://www.musiccentre.ca/home.cfm) and listen to the archived recordings. I suggest 'Lonely Child' and 'Wo bist du licht' for his late works.

So much music - so little time.
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: snyprrr on May 16, 2016, 07:53:04 AM
In this boxset 'Dutch Miracle' is the first Vivier I've heard, a,...scene?,...I don't know, but it's 9mins. of what sounds like,...mmm,....,uh,

It's called Glaubst du an die Unsterblichkeit der Seele (anyone?), from 1983, the year of the composer's murder. There are singers, and a speaker, and an ensemble. I haven't heard Die Soldaten, but this is partly what I imagine it sounds like. The end result is like taperecording the party of someone who will commit suicide later that evening. There is ranting :o!!

I thought Vivier was going to be a whole lot more,...mmm,...musical? This is dreary dreary, southside gutter music. Perhaps this is what a love-letter to a male prostitute sounds like? Creepy! ;D

LOL :laugh:
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: Uhor on June 24, 2018, 06:20:48 PM
He's like a Messiaen or a Stockhausen but with all the extra notes removed. There is a purity in his music that is rare among anything coming from the avant-garde.
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: Mandryka on February 27, 2020, 12:28:02 PM
I knew this was on but missed it, I regret it very much

https://www.youtube.com/v/oGfVnzrpXLQ

Quote
Hiérophanie (from the Greek meaning manifestation of the sacred, and inspired by Vivier’s reading of the philosopher Mircea Eliade) was written when the composer was 22, but was only premiered forty years later, in 2010. It is a rite of passage, a means of communication and meditation, of contact with the primordial and primitive. Here an utterance, movements, random elements, club music, and improvisations, with many a recollection from childhood, and the Salve Regina and a Delphic hymn from ancient Greece all expound a spiritual and religious awakening.
The stage director Silvia Costa (well known to audiences of the Festival d’Automne à Paris) has devised the spatial staging of Hiérophanie.

The same programme note says this, which may or may not be a good sign, I'm saying nothing . . . yet

Quote
Gérard Grisey, who knew Claude Vivier very well, particularly in the 1970s, shared his penchant for mysticism, for the "Shamanic power" of music, and the "magic of sound", such magic being the only means of expression capable of conjuring up "a voice lost", able to venture into "the mysterious strata of a being".
Title: Re: Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
Post by: Brewski on September 17, 2021, 05:14:30 AM
Coming up live at 11:45am (EDT), Barbara Hannigan conducts the Gothenburg Symphony Orchestra in two works by Vivier, with some Busoni and Haydn, too. (I think the concert will be archived.)

Busoni Berceuse élégiaque
Vivier Wo Bist Du Licht?
Haydn Symphony No 26 "Lamentatione"
Vivier Lonely Child

Gothenburg Symphony Orchestra
Barbara Hannigan conductor
Tuuri Dede mezzosopran
Aphrodite Patoulidou soprano

https://www.gso.se/en/gsoplay/video/hannigans-surprise/

--Bruce