GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: Maciek on July 14, 2008, 04:25:20 PM

Title: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Maciek on July 14, 2008, 04:25:20 PM
I once mentioned (on the old forum, I think) the excellent Yuri Laniuk disc that was released by the Polish label CD Accord some years ago:
(http://www.cdaccord.com.pl/images/covers/054.jpg) (http://merlin.pl/Yuri-Laniuk-Chant-pour-un-Equinoxe_Jerzy-Artysz-Yuri-Laniuk-Lwowska-Sinfonietta/browse/product/4,189400.html;jsessionid=F3A7BF1E03E69D7311011B0EC4CA83BC.LB2)

Got no response back then, maybe now is a better time for Ukrainian composers on GMG?

(Also, there's this thread: Valentin Silvestrov, a genius or a lot of the same notes in different wraps? (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,377.0.html))
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: vandermolen on July 15, 2008, 03:39:10 AM
I didn't notice this thread and posted about Boris Lyatoshinsky (a fine composer in my view) in the Russian/Soviet Composer thread..apologies.

Lyatoshinsky's brooding melancholy appeals to me  :-[
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Cato on July 15, 2008, 08:16:21 AM
Not to be forgotten: Sergei Bortkiewicz, whose works are in the vein of Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninoff, and our contemporary Valentin Silvestrov, whose meditative aspects are perhaps more necessary in a world that needs meditation.
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Maciek on July 15, 2008, 09:50:03 PM
Silvestrov! I knew I was forgetting someone! ::) (And Johan doesn't believe in my senior moments...)

I've added a link to the appropriate thread in my first post.

(Incidentally, the English Wikipedia has Szymanowski in the Ukrainian composers category... ::))
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Dundonnell on July 22, 2008, 04:49:22 AM
Silvestrov! I knew I was forgetting someone! ::) (And Johan doesn't believe in my senior moments...)

I've added a link to the appropriate thread in my first post.

(Incidentally, the English Wikipedia has Szymanowski in the Ukrainian composers category... ::))

Szymanowski was born in Tymoszowka which is in the Ukraine today. It is, of course, a tricky one. His parents were Polish but the estate was in what was then part of the Russian Empire. That, presumably, meant that he was born a Russian citizen. Vainberg/Weinberg-now is he Polish(born Warsaw, capital of independent Poland in 1919) or Russian? Poland-as you know well-did not exist as an independent country again until after World War One. Where does that place Polish composers born prior to 1919. Is nationality defined by language or by state boundaries?

Oh..by the way...just to avoid any doubt...Szymanowski was Polish :)
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: springrite on July 22, 2008, 05:39:19 AM
The problem with naming Ukrainian composers, like with other former soviet composers, is that we are belatedly calling them by their new identity in many cases. I see no person calling Stalin a Georgian, for instance, nor Richter as Ukrainian or German.

Anyway, the only one I am familiar with is Lyatoshinsky. He is indeed a wonderful composer. I am sure there are others I know and have in my collection who are of Ukrainian origin. But unless they are living composers, I don't necessarily think of them as Ukrainian.
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Hector on July 22, 2008, 05:44:04 AM
Silvestrov is an interesting composer combining dissonance and serialism with an incredible melodiousness that cuts to the heart.

I have a recording of his 6th Symphony but I am told that the 5th is the one to hear being descrbed by one critic as the finest Russian (sic) symphony since Shostakovich.
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Maciek on July 22, 2008, 09:33:51 AM
Oh dear, we've been down this road so many times on this forum... ::) Here, let me go over the facts once more: The Soviet Union was not a homogeneous "country"! It was made up of republics. People born in the Ukrainian SSR were referred to as Ukrainians. People born in the Georgian SSR were referred to as Georgians. People born in the Lithuanian SSR were referred to as Lithuanians. Etc. Etc. Etc. ETC.

I don't quite see where Joseph Stalin fits into this. He was born in 1878 in fact, but none of the above would have any bearing on his case even if he had been born later: I have never encountered a source which would claim something contrary to the fact that Stalin was a Georgian. He may be referred to as a "Russian/Soviet ruler" but that does not contradict his Georgian birth. Clearly, the words are used in two different meanings.

As for Szymanowski, whether he was born on Tymoszówka or on Mars makes little difference. One of my grandfathers was born in Germany - so what? His (my grandfather's) parents were living and working there at the time. The Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania were all, for lack of a better word, "colonized" by Poland (incidentally, for a great part of history Lithuania and Belarus were one and the same "country" - here it was probably Lithuania who was the "colonizer"). There were thousands of Poles living there, Polish culture was the dominant one. (A bit off topic: Educated people in those countries did not usually know their "national" languages. Čiurlionis, the Lithuanian national composer, learned Lithuanian only as an adult! His first languages were Polish and Russian. There are lots and lots of similar examples. Incidentally, this also shows that one's language does not have to say anything about one's nationality.)

As for the non-existence of Poland for great periods of time in the past (the entire 19th century, for example), it is a non-issue.

And don't tell me to lighten up. I'm tired, I have work to do, I don't have time to lighten up! >:(

(And anyway, these issues are so often misconceived it won't hurt to restate how things stand just one more time. $:))
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Dundonnell on July 22, 2008, 03:27:49 PM
Oh dear, we've been down this road so many times on this forum... ::) Here, let me go over the facts once more: The Soviet Union was not a homogeneous "country"! It was made up of republics. People born in the Ukrainian SSR were referred to as Ukrainians. People born in the Georgian SSR were referred to as Georgians. People born in the Lithuanian SSR were referred to as Lithuanians. Etc. Etc. Etc. ETC.

I don't quite see where Joseph Stalin fits into this. He was born in 1878 in fact, but none of the above would have any bearing on his case even if he had been born later: I have never encountered a source which would claim something contrary to the fact that Stalin was a Georgian. He may be referred to as a "Russian/Soviet ruler" but that does not contradict his Georgian birth. Clearly, the words are used in two different meanings.

As for Szymanowski, whether he was born on Tymoszówka or on Mars makes little difference. One of my grandfathers was born in Germany - so what? His (my grandfather's) parents were living and working there at the time. The Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania were all, for lack of a better word, "colonized" by Poland (incidentally, for a great part of history Lithuania and Belarus were one and the same "country" - here it was probably Lithuania who was the "colonizer"). There were thousands of Poles living there, Polish culture was the dominant one. (A bit off topic: Educated people in those countries did not usually know their "national" languages. Čiurlionis, the Lithuanian national composer, learned Lithuanian only as an adult! His first languages were Polish and Russian. There are lots and lots of similar examples. Incidentally, this also shows that one's language does not have to say anything about one's nationality.)

As for the non-existence of Poland for great periods of time in the past (the entire 19th century, for example), it is a non-issue.

And don't tell me to lighten up. I'm tired, I have work to do, I don't have time to lighten up! >:(

(And anyway, these issues are so often misconceived it won't hurt to restate how things stand just one more time. $:))

Wouldn't dream of telling you "to lighten up" ;) These are interesting issues and you have made many perfectly valid points. You will-I hope and trust-concede that it is not always possible to keep oneself fully aware of all of the issues which have been discussed before on this forum. I apologise if I have entered territory which has already been fought over on many other occasions :-[

We can-at least-agree that Szymanowski was a great Polish composer and that he was definitely not born on Mars :)

Forgetting Stalin(one wishes that one could!), do you have an opinion on Vainberg/Weinberg? In most of my sources he is listed as a Russian composer yet he was, of course, born in Warsaw to a Jewish family, was educated in Poland and did not leave the country until he was 20.
Does it matter? No more than whether or not Szymanowski should be listed under 'Ukrainian Composers' :)
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Maciek on July 26, 2008, 02:06:37 AM
Sorry, I was feeling rather testy that day. ::) Had been recently reading a lot about the 1943 Volhynia massacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Poles_in_Volhynia) (not on Wikipedia, but I'm giving the link so you can get some idea of what I'm talking about): people disemboweled and/or skinned alive (and salted!), little children (infants) torn apart or buried alive, or nailed to the ground, people cut into pieces with saws. Dear God, just making that list makes me feel paralyzed...

20% of the entire Polish population living in Ukraine at that time was killed. Of course, Polish-Ukrainian relations prior to that terrible genocide were uneasy to say the least, and neither side had a "clean slate". But, OTOH, can any "buildup of tension" justify such an atrocity? (Poles killed Ukrainians in that region too, and I don't see any justification for that either.) I don't see a problem with putting these matters aside when dealing with modern issues, but can't think of any reason why they should be forgotten. (Not discussing with anyone at GMG at the moment - these are just random thoughts about the predominant attitude in Poland, where everyone seems to be thinking that publishing books about the subject etc. might actually undermine Polish-Ukrainian relations ??? - which, incidentally, are today perhaps better than they ever were).

Anyway, if Szymanowski happened to still be alive and living in Volhynia at that time, I'm absolutely sure he wouldn't be spared. So calling him a "Ukrainian composer" seems... well, a bit inappropriate. Though maybe I have a stilted view of these things. I'm certainly no expert.

I think the discussions I mentioned earlier were mostly on the old (now defunct) forum, and even if it was here, they certainly took place quite a long time ago.

Anyway, re Weinberg, I really don't have a formed opinion. Of course, in Poland he's usually referred to as a Polish composer. ;D One of the arguments being that he went through a lot of pains to "get back" his original name: Mieczysław (and not Moishei). This, I understand, was quite a feat in Soviet Russia, and actually required a bit of courage (not sure why exactly - it probably wasn't "well seen" to be underlining one's "Polish background" when one was so lucky as to be a Soviet citizen!). He certainly never cut himself off from his Polish roots. But, unlike Tansman, for example, he didn't brag left and right about really being a Pole. But that may have been his prudence, not reluctance. I really don't know all that much about his personal life and opinions. His wife was Russian, so there was nothing "unnatural" in his choosing to live there. He was a fully grown man when he left Poland, so I guess it's reasonable to call him a Polish composer...?
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Maciek on July 26, 2008, 02:43:06 AM
Anyway, if Szymanowski happened to still be alive and living in Volhynia at that time, I'm absolutely sure he wouldn't be spared. So calling him a "Ukrainian composer" seems... well, a bit inappropriate.

Damn! I just realized how stupid that line of reasoning is. Not only did I vulgarly equate the UPA with all Ukrainians, but I also appropriated the UPA's preposterously "monochromatic" view of who was and wasn't a Ukrainian! I'm sorry if anyone got irritated by that. Obviously, there were millions of Ukrainians who did not take part in the Volhynia massacre, lots of Ukrainians probably helped Poles stay alive during that time. What's more, it is highly likely that many of the "Poles" killed then felt a sort of "double affinity" - to both Poland and Ukraine. In fact, it is not completely impossible that some of them felt Ukrainian and not Polish...

So, having acquired this new outlook, I now don't find it all that preposterous to call Szymanowski a "Ukrainian" composer. I do still feel it is be stretching the term more than a bit, and simply is not true, but at least I don't find it as ridiculous. To my credit. ;D ;D ;D

(He did spend a significant portion of his life trying to develop a Polish style of music. Don't think he ever was interested in Ukrainian folklore that way.)
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Dundonnell on July 26, 2008, 03:43:19 AM
Thank you very much for your extremely thoughtful and insightful responses!

I read the link to the Volhynia massacre with mounting horror and disgust :( I know that this is not the place to discuss these matters in depth much further but I can understand the depth of your feeling about what happened at that time. I am a History graduate and taught the subject in schools for over thirty years. The Second World War is a subject of particular interest to me and I have read a good deal about Eastern Europe during the war. What occurred is truly unimagineable but-and here I agree wholeheartedly with you-should never be forgotten. It was not the easiest thing that I ever did to take a party of awed, extremely subdued and, ultimately, shocked and upset school pupils to visit Auschwitz but I do not regret doing so.

Turning away from that, I am very interested in what you say about Weinberg. Arthur Benjamin and Malcolm Williamson were two Australian composers who settled in Great Britain, spent most of their lives here and died here. Yet both are still regarded as Australian
composers. Weinberg gets classified as Russian! Odd.
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Drasko on July 26, 2008, 04:00:30 AM
How to classify Igor Markevitch? He was Ukrainian, born in Kiev, but left for Switzerland at the age of 2, later lived in Paris then in Italy, took Italian citizenship and died at Antibes. His formative years were spent in France and what I heard of his music sounds mostly French.
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Dundonnell on July 26, 2008, 04:03:37 AM
How to classify Igor Markevitch? He was Ukrainian, born in Kiev, but left for Switzerland at the age of 2, later lived in Paris then in Italy, took Italian citizenship and died at Antibes. His formative years were spent in France and what I heard of his music sounds mostly French.

Pass :)
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Maciek on January 26, 2009, 01:15:20 PM
So, having acquired this new outlook, I now don't find it all that preposterous to call Szymanowski a "Ukrainian" composer. I do still feel it is be stretching the term more than a bit, and simply is not true, but at least I don't find it as ridiculous.

Well, I'm currently "parallel-reading" 2 relatively recent Szymanowski monographs (Zieliński's from 1997 and Chylińska's, which came out in November) and what I'm learning confirms my earlier impression that there's really no way Szymanowski can be considered a Ukrainian. In fact, my earlier reticence, caution, chariness, prudence, what have you about Szymanowski's nationality seems utterly silly to me now. Laudable in view of the fact that there were many things I didn't know about Szymanowski, his life, his views and his family back then. But silly when stood beside the information I now have. Calling Szymanowski a Ukrainian composer would be disingenuous, to put it extremely mildly. Frankly - it would be ridiculous. He came from an extremely patriotic Polish family and held similar views himself. There was't even the slightest hint of the "double affinity" I mentioned back in July.

Now, with that minor quibble settled, we could perhaps give this thread a new start and discuss the real Ukrainian composers... ;D Anyone?
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on January 26, 2009, 11:13:52 PM
Now, with that minor quibble settled, we could perhaps give this thread a new start and discuss the real Ukrainian composers... ;D Anyone?

Coincidentally I listened to some Silvestrov last night: the Cello Sonata. (What a weird, surreal piece)

(Incidentally, the English Wikipedia has Szymanowski in the Ukrainian composers category... ::))

Sorry to come back to this, but the Wiki lists anyone who ever lived in Ukraine as Ukrainian, which casts the net very wide indeed. They list Prokofiev as a "Ukrainian composer" for example.
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Brahmsian on September 02, 2011, 05:22:09 AM
Prokofiev was born in the Ukraine, correct?  We're both his parents Russian, though?

When I saw the last name Silvestrov, for a long time just seeing the name - I had initially thought that he was a Latin American composer.   ;D
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on September 02, 2011, 08:37:10 AM
Prokofiev was born in the Ukraine, correct?  We're both his parents Russian, though?

Well yeah - he was a Russian from Ukraine, like a lot of other people.
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: cilgwyn on September 03, 2011, 03:44:21 AM
Lyatoshinsky. Correct me if I got the spelling wrong. Am I alone in feeling that it's about time his symphonies got some attention from a recording label in the West. Ok,they can be a bit loud and unsubtle at times,but theres a power and a feeling of melancholy there,which makes up for most of his shortcomings. Not a great composer,but he deserves to be better known.
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: vandermolen on October 21, 2014, 01:47:25 PM
Coming soon - all excellent in my opinion:





Just been listening to 'Grazhyna' perhaps his masterpiece - a powerful, searching and eloquent score.
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Mirror Image on October 21, 2014, 05:54:47 PM
Here's another Ukrainian on the rise via Naxos:



(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1520769966/image.jpg)

http://composers21.com/compdocs/stankovy.htm (http://composers21.com/compdocs/stankovy.htm)
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Brian on October 21, 2014, 07:20:48 PM
I've listened to half the Lyatoshynsky series so far this week.

Symphony No 1: an enjoyable rehash of Gliere's Third, with lots of clear references to that work. Premiered by Lyatoshynsky's composition teacher...Gliere.

Grazhyna: interesting tone poem that starts and ends with Dies Irae reference by the violas.

Symphony No 2: moving into a more modern language, with crashing dark climaxes.
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: vandermolen on October 22, 2014, 01:02:08 AM
I've listened to half the Lyatoshynsky series so far this week.

Symphony No 1: an enjoyable rehash of Gliere's Third, with lots of clear references to that work. Premiered by Lyatoshynsky's composition teacher...Gliere.

Grazhyna: interesting tone poem that starts and ends with Dies Irae reference by the violas.

Symphony No 2: moving into a more modern language, with crashing dark climaxes.

Interesting. No 3 is generally regarded as the best but I enjoy them all. I was on holiday in Wales in the summer and in a stately home shop they had the radio on and I was so much enjoying what was being broadcast that I stayed until the end to find out what it was - it was Grazhyna which I had on Marco Polo but had only played once and had not realised how good it is. Some say it is Lyatoshinsky's masterpiece. I have played it a lot since hearing it on the radio. The Naxos is the Marco Polo series reissued.
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: vandermolen on October 22, 2014, 01:02:49 AM
Here's another Ukrainian on the rise via Naxos:



(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1520769966/image.jpg)

http://composers21.com/compdocs/stankovy.htm (http://composers21.com/compdocs/stankovy.htm)

John, I am very tempted by this - what is the style like please?
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Mirror Image on October 22, 2014, 05:56:04 AM
John, I am very tempted by this - what is the style like please?

I couldn't tell you, Jeffrey. He's a new composer for me.
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: vandermolen on October 22, 2014, 10:43:45 AM
I couldn't tell you, Jeffrey. He's a new composer for me.

Ok thanks John. If you get the CD please let us know.
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Mirror Image on October 22, 2014, 06:28:45 PM
Ok thanks John. If you get the CD please let us know.

I listened to his Symphony No. 1 on YouTube a little while ago actually and thought very little of it. Reminds me too much Penderecki and, of course, I'm not a fan of his music. If he was closer to Schnittke, then I would be onboard with his style, but it's only one work I heard, so I can't really give a fair and accurate picture of the composer at the moment.
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: vandermolen on October 23, 2014, 12:25:24 AM
I listened to his Symphony No. 1 on YouTube a little while ago actually and thought very little of it. Reminds me too much Penderecki and, of course, I'm not a fan of his music. If he was closer to Schnittke, then I would be onboard with his style, but it's only one work I heard, so I can't really give a fair and accurate picture of the composer at the moment.

Very many thanks John. I partly expected that as I think that I did hear some of his music before and was rather disappointed. Maybe I should stick with Lyatoshinsky!  :)
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: vandermolen on January 09, 2017, 01:04:01 AM
My daughter is working in the Ukraine for nine months so I thought I'd revive this thread. I have recently been enjoying Lyatoshinsky's (Lyatoshynsky's) Third Symphony and Grazhyna. I want to get to know Symphony 1 better as some sources consider that the best one. His style is a bit like Miaskovsky, Tubin and Ivanovs as rough guides.
Any views on Lyatoshinsky or other Ukrainian composers?
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Scion7 on January 09, 2017, 05:15:16 PM
My daughter is working in the Ukraine for nine months ....

Hopefully far to the west??
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: vandermolen on January 09, 2017, 10:49:47 PM
Hopefully far to the west??
Kiev - thanks for asking.
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Brian on January 10, 2017, 12:21:35 PM
A new BIS album may be of interest:

(http://ecstatic.textalk.se/shop/17115/art15/h5363/4985363-origpic-7ddc70.jpg)

From CEO Robert von Bahr:

This SACD is a very difficult one to easily categorize, since its programme is so diverse. The red thread is Ukrainian sorrow, something, with which, in the light of recent happenings, it is easy to identify.

I will take a rather big bet that the composers (with the possible exception of Silvestrov and Lyatoshinsky), are next to unknown and also the artists, albeit formidable, are not on everyone's lips. It all was the brainchild of Natalya Pasichnyk, piano, who then has gathered a number of young, extremely talented artists around her for these Ukrainian lamentations, and BIS was only too happy to become part of this. Listen in and you'll understand why.
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Zeus on January 10, 2017, 02:21:24 PM
Two more recent Ukrainian-themed albums:

Ukraine: Journey to Freedom
Solomiya Ivakhiv and Angelina Gadeliya
Labor Records?


(http://solomiyaivakhiv.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Journey-to-Freedom_CD-Cover_Web.jpg)

Ukranian Moods
Violina Petrychenko
Ars Production

(http://www.europadisc.co.uk/images/products-190/1454930295_ARS38195.jpg)

Composers on the first album include:
- Kosenko, Viktor
- Lyatoshinsky, Boris
- Karabits, Ivan
- Kryvopust, Bohdan
- Shchetynsky, Alexander
- Silvestrov, Valentin
- Skoryk, Myroslav
- Stankovych, Yevhen

and on the second album:
- Revutsky, Levko
- Kosenko, Viktor
- Shamo, Ihor
- Kolessa, Mykola

I have and like both.
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Brian on January 10, 2017, 02:36:33 PM
I wonder if Violina's parents were disappointed in her choice of musical instrument.
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Mahlerian on January 10, 2017, 02:40:58 PM
I wonder if Violina's parents were disappointed in her choice of musical instrument.

Probably not as much as they would be if she had chosen viola!
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Zeus on January 10, 2017, 06:52:21 PM
A new BIS album may be of interest:

(http://ecstatic.textalk.se/shop/17115/art15/h5363/4985363-origpic-7ddc70.jpg)


Listening to this album now. Very enjoyable. Right up my alley!
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on January 10, 2017, 10:14:32 PM
I have enjoyed some Karabits in the past

(http://img.hmv.co.jp/image/jacket/400/53/6/4/057.jpg)

Even though the instrumentations he uses in his concertos for orchestra incorporate quite a bit of percussion and instruments less commonly found in the orchestra, I think his orchestration doesn't really venture away from anything that isn't standard. Much of the orchestral colour is stuff that has been heard before.
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: vandermolen on January 11, 2017, 12:50:42 AM
Two more recent Ukrainian-themed albums:

Ukraine: Journey to Freedom
Solomiya Ivakhiv and Angelina Gadeliya
Labor Records?


(http://solomiyaivakhiv.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Journey-to-Freedom_CD-Cover_Web.jpg)

Ukranian Moods
Violina Petrychenko
Ars Production

(http://www.europadisc.co.uk/images/products-190/1454930295_ARS38195.jpg)

Composers on the first album include:
- Kosenko, Viktor
- Lyatoshinsky, Boris
- Karabits, Ivan
- Kryvopust, Bohdan
- Shchetynsky, Alexander
- Silvestrov, Valentin
- Skoryk, Myroslav
- Stankovych, Yevhen

and on the second album:
- Revutsky, Levko
- Kosenko, Viktor
- Shamo, Ihor
- Kolessa, Mykola

I have and like both.
Just ordered the top one - not too expensive (£7.00 for double album). The Lyatoshinsky sonata looks especially interesting. Thanks for alerting us to this release.
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: vandermolen on January 11, 2017, 12:47:34 PM
I think that Grazhyna (1955) is Lyatoshinsky's orchestral masterpiece. Been listening to it tonight. It is rather in the spirit of Rachmaninov's Isle of the Dead and Miaskovsky's 'Silence':


Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: André on January 11, 2017, 01:06:03 PM
I like Lyatoshinsky's music. At least that which I have (symphonies 3 and 4 + assorted orchestral works/suites, on the Russian Disc label).

But TBH I have a feeling that Stankovych is a more individual composer. Not necessarily better (how can you tell when both are fine?), but I pull his discs off the shelves more often. This is one of my favourites, which I listened to last month:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9JUeHzfuTHE/VrJLnjiXgAI/AAAAAAAADrs/MsBXKv4Tdwo/s1600/Stankovich.jpg)

"Modern" music in a sense, "conventional" in the other. Stankovych  deserves to be heard.
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: vandermolen on January 11, 2017, 01:11:53 PM
I like Lyatoshinsky's music. At least that which I have (symphonies 3 and 4 + assorted orchestral works/suites, on the Russian Disc label).

But TBH I have a feeling that Stankovych is a more individual composer. Not necessarily better (how can you tell when both are fine?), but I pull his discs off the shelves more often. This is one of my favourites, which I listened to last month:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9JUeHzfuTHE/VrJLnjiXgAI/AAAAAAAADrs/MsBXKv4Tdwo/s1600/Stankovich.jpg)

"Modern" music in a sense, "conventional" in the other. Stankovych  deserves to be heard.
I need to listen to more of Stankovych - I'm sure I have a CD or two of his music - somewhere  ::)
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Mirror Image on January 11, 2017, 05:32:15 PM
I have enjoyed some Karabits in the past

(http://img.hmv.co.jp/image/jacket/400/53/6/4/057.jpg)

Even though the instrumentations he uses in his concertos for orchestra incorporate quite a bit of percussion and instruments less commonly found in the orchestra, I think his orchestration doesn't really venture away from anything that isn't standard. Much of the orchestral colour is stuff that has been heard before.

That's an excellent disc. I especially like those Silvestrov works.
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on January 11, 2017, 08:16:11 PM
That's an excellent disc. I especially like those Silvestrov works.
Yes the Silvestrov is nice here. I liked it when Karabits deviated from my expectations here...especially with the inclusion of harpsichord in one of the concertos for orchestra! But I feel like these deviations to things a little more interesting/unexpected were just a little too rare for me.
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Zeus on May 29, 2018, 06:01:00 PM
Listening to the Karabits disc now.  This one belongs on this thread too....

Skoryk: Concerti & Orchestral Works
Odessa Philharmonic Orchestra, Hobart Earle
Naxos



A real find!
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: some guy on May 30, 2018, 10:38:14 AM
So no love for Roslavets?

Well, maybe it's just the difficulty of establishing what "Ukrainian" means. Just as well that that kind of thing is difficult.

But the one who springs most readily to my mind, Kotra, was born in Kiev. So there's that.

Kotra is the nom de plume of Dmytro Fedorenko, who also runs two record labels in Ukraine, Kvitnu, which he founded, and Nexsound, which Andrey Kirichenko founded.

My first album of Kotra's was dissilient.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61LaGSyil7L._SS500.jpg)

Here's a track from that, with a colorful video to go along with it: https://vimeo.com/24862240
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Zeus on May 30, 2018, 04:44:11 PM
^ Hmmm.  How to word this....

Those who like that kind of music might love it !!!  To me, it sounds like something out of a sonic weapons lab.  But I guess the intent is to shock, no?

Btw, I found 42 discs available for download on eMusic from the Kvitnu record label.  So they're developing some international reach at least.

Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: some guy on May 31, 2018, 01:19:05 AM
I guess the intent is to shock, no?
No.

The intent of the composer is to write some interesting music. You know, like Palestrina did. And Mozart. And Chopin....

Even my intent, while certainly open to question, was no really to shock, but to widen the scope of "Ukrainian composer" just a bit. (I was feeling a bit claustrophobic, anyway, reading through this thread. Just a bit.)

Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Roy Bland on December 18, 2019, 07:43:07 PM
Stanislav Lyudkevich 40° death
(https://zaxid.net/resources/photos/news/640x360_DIR/201912/1494850.jpg?201912181328)
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: vandermolen on December 19, 2019, 12:40:43 AM
So no love for Roslavets?

Well, maybe it's just the difficulty of establishing what "Ukrainian" means. Just as well that that kind of thing is difficult.

But the one who springs most readily to my mind, Kotra, was born in Kiev. So there's that.

Kotra is the nom de plume of Dmytro Fedorenko, who also runs two record labels in Ukraine, Kvitnu, which he founded, and Nexsound, which Andrey Kirichenko founded.

My first album of Kotra's was dissilient.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61LaGSyil7L._SS500.jpg)

Here's a track from that, with a colorful video to go along with it: https://vimeo.com/24862240
I like the music of Roslavets, especially this CD:
(http://)
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Symphonic Addict on December 19, 2019, 11:42:37 AM
For fans of Roslavets this is a stunning CD featuring his piano trios, except the No. 1 which is lost.

(https://direct.rhapsody.com/imageserver/images/alb.54664433/600x600.jpg)

Gripping, tense, dramatic, dark and never dull. Nos. 2 and 4 are simply impressive, the No. 3 is less so but still very engaging. It's a mystery why they're not better known.
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Symphonic Addict on December 19, 2019, 11:53:30 AM
And this:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/819NoX43TuL._SY355_.jpg)

I don't have strong memories of them right now, but I do remember them being supremely interesting.
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: André on December 19, 2019, 06:32:29 PM
I need to listen to more of Stankovych - I'm sure I have a CD or two of his music - somewhere  ::)

Found them ? Probably the Marco Polo disc of symphonies 1, 2 and 4

Remember this Jeffrey?  :laugh:

 (https://giantbomb1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/scale_small/1/13313/1373646-miner_s_helmet.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Roy Bland on December 19, 2019, 08:08:57 PM
There is this:
(https://img.discogs.com/YntVgcerleDT1bS1foqcEMi1owA=/fit-in/600x536/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-4552057-1368145203-4952.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: vandermolen on December 19, 2019, 11:27:17 PM
Found them ? Probably the Marco Polo disc of symphonies 1, 2 and 4

Remember this Jeffrey?  :laugh:

 (https://giantbomb1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/scale_small/1/13313/1373646-miner_s_helmet.jpg)
Haha  :)
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Roy Bland on January 20, 2020, 06:41:20 PM
Stanislav Lyudkevich 40° death
(https://zaxid.net/resources/photos/news/640x360_DIR/201912/1494850.jpg?201912181328)
Here it is:
https://www.discogs.com/it/it/release/14661022
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Roy Bland on January 24, 2020, 06:43:43 PM
Various choral works(Lyatoshinsky,Lysenko,Stogerenko,Revutsky) conducted  by Muravsky:
http://pavlomuravskyi.com/pisennyj-kobzar-dyryguye-pavlo-muravskyj.html

http://pavlomuravskyi.com/pisennyj-kobzar-albom-2.html
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Roy Bland on March 22, 2020, 07:28:57 PM
(https://www.tncmusic.net/images/product/TNC_CD_151.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Roy Bland on April 10, 2020, 02:33:40 PM
Maiboroda's Symphonic Poem
https://soundcloud.com/firmamelodia/pechenegi-1982?fbclid=IwAR2POnYqxoDCcG7gzgi_PBSr787Nh2I89NMA86O1bG_CN9KNeg7K2WuiqvQ
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Roy Bland on April 24, 2020, 06:41:32 PM
(https://img.discogs.com/DjaCT9f-DsOUJFwg9klDRtFuv9U=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-14159845-1568963873-3945.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Roy Bland on July 29, 2020, 01:12:02 AM
http://www.ukrweekly.com/uwwp/myroslav-skoryk-ukraines-cultural-icon-81/
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Roy Bland on December 25, 2020, 07:29:00 PM
Chamber music from Lvov
(https://tziwja7otcqlqwatub7i3rw3iq--day-kyiv-ua.translate.goog/sites/default/files/main/articles/18122020/vid-shodu-do-zahodu-sayt.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Roy Bland on January 03, 2021, 07:23:22 PM
(https://img.discogs.com/Btvsm42hwY_OIIn3NEOh3WVPF1w=/fit-in/600x529/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-13780906-1560971733-6977.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: vandermolen on January 04, 2021, 12:03:33 AM
(https://img.discogs.com/Btvsm42hwY_OIIn3NEOh3WVPF1w=/fit-in/600x529/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-13780906-1560971733-6977.jpeg.jpg)
What's the music like?
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: relm1 on January 04, 2021, 06:57:55 AM
What's the music like?

It's tonal and cinematic, could be from a film score.
http://umka.com/sounds/nsounataliya1rozhko/nsounataliya1rozhko02.mp3 (http://umka.com/sounds/nsounataliya1rozhko/nsounataliya1rozhko02.mp3)

Some of her music is here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwzoGnSk9x40heVJ1aNuIRA
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: vandermolen on January 04, 2021, 04:13:26 PM
It's tonal and cinematic, could be from a film score.
http://umka.com/sounds/nsounataliya1rozhko/nsounataliya1rozhko02.mp3 (http://umka.com/sounds/nsounataliya1rozhko/nsounataliya1rozhko02.mp3)

Some of her music is here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwzoGnSk9x40heVJ1aNuIRA
Thanks very much.
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Roy Bland on February 12, 2021, 06:49:45 PM
Maiboroda's Opera "Yaroslav the wise"
(https://scontent.ffco2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/149034688_1419604831567326_5172106844243863426_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=vSgLGPvAy2sAX9foeDk&_nc_ht=scontent.ffco2-1.fna&tp=6&oh=e6f918db726b50867da3dc454f31ab2a&oe=604CD034)
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: vandermolen on February 13, 2021, 12:54:26 PM
Maiboroda's Oratorio "Yaroslav the wise"
(https://scontent.ffco2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/149034688_1419604831567326_5172106844243863426_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=vSgLGPvAy2sAX9foeDk&_nc_ht=scontent.ffco2-1.fna&tp=6&oh=e6f918db726b50867da3dc454f31ab2a&oe=604CD034)
What's it like Roy?
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: relm1 on February 13, 2021, 05:11:28 PM
What's it like Roy?

I Just listened to it.  Composer was born 1913 and this opera (not oratorio) was composed in the early 1970's.  More conservative than I thought it would be.  There are near quotes of Mussorgsky, Borodin, Rimsky-korsakav so if you like the Russian tradition, you'll enjoy this.  The language could be from 100 years earlier but lacking the originality.  For example, Mussorgsky is a very original voice in the 1870's-80's but in 1970's, it's pastiche...an impersonation.  Fortunately, I happen to love Russian music so enjoyed this but afterwords felt it didn't really have much to say except to imitate old Russian style.  That is a contrast to Rachmaninoff who looked to the past but had something individual to say.  For example, Rachmaninoff's operas are not particularly memorable or his best achievements but you hear his individual voice in those works which makes them worth hearing if you that composer.  But here, you can remove that individual voice and you can see, the result is a bit...empty.  If you compare him to contemporaneous Ukrainian composers like Epshai, there you find a lineage to the Ukrainian school such as Gliere, but here that line isn't noticed.  It's a traditional, late romantic Russian opera written in the 1970s as if the 20th century didn't happen.  If that's what you want, you'll enjoy it but I would say, it lacks the original voices of its predecessors.  An imitation rather than the real thing.
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Roy Bland on March 08, 2021, 07:07:39 PM
Label

http://noni.org.ua/our-cd
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Roy Bland on March 20, 2021, 08:10:46 PM
 Cd of the national project "Three" S ": Skorik - Stankovich - Silvestrov, in Kiev, November 10, 2017. On this day, a gala concert of the project" Three "S": Skorik - Stankovich - Silvestrov took place in Kiev. "Three" S "- these are three" whales "of modern Ukrainian classical music - legendary composers Miroslav Skorik, Yevgeny Stankovich and Valentin Silvestrov. The concert was attended by: Honored Academic Symphony Orchestra of Ukrainian Radio. Artistic Director and Chief Conductor: People's Art. Ukraine Volodymyr Sheiko. Municipal chamber choir "Kiev" Artistic director and conductor: w.d.m. Ukraine, laureate of the T. Shevchenko National Prize Nikolay Gobdich
(https://images.unian.net/pb/008/thumb_files/h_500/807169.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: MusicTurner on August 10, 2021, 09:08:44 AM
This CD with Ukrainian piano music caught my attention - admittedly also partly because the pianist's first name is ... Violina :)

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/ukrainian-moods-piano-miniatures/hnum/8419764

(I see though that it was mentioned some years ago, in post #32)



Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Maestro267 on September 20, 2021, 04:43:28 AM
This seems like the right thread to bump for this...

Anyone familiar with the music of Dmitri Klebanov? I was going down a Wikipedia rabbit hole and it mentioned his name, and I've never heard of him until just now. Born 1907, died 1987, composer of 9 symphonies among other works in the usual genres. Amazon lists one recording available, and as it happens Chandos is releasing a disc of chamber music in a few weeks' time.
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Roy Bland on October 02, 2021, 07:31:41 AM
This seems like the right thread to bump for this...

Anyone familiar with the music of Dmitri Klebanov? I was going down a Wikipedia rabbit hole and it mentioned his name, and I've never heard of him until just now. Born 1907, died 1987, composer of 9 symphonies among other works in the usual genres. Amazon lists one recording available, and as it happens Chandos is releasing a disc of chamber music in a few weeks' time.
Here the First Symphony,Soviet music critic accused him to be not enough patriotic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh5q3mGLTj4
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Roy Bland on October 04, 2021, 05:45:22 PM
A festival and 3 cds for T.De Hartmann
https://portal.lviv.ua/news/2021/09/06/u-lvovi-vpershe-v-ukraini-vidbudetsia-festyval-tomasa-de-hartmana
Title: Re: Ukrainian composers
Post by: Roy Bland on October 24, 2021, 06:34:39 PM
new release
(https://kuvat.huuto.net/v1/58cc/394b48bd8552ec5462adcb0763c/455307593-m.jpg)