Conductor-composers

Started by vers la flamme, May 16, 2023, 07:11:57 PM

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vers la flamme

A lot of composers were also active as conductors of their own work, going back to the time of Lully, at least. Then there were composers who gained fame as a conductor-interpreter of other composers, in addition to their own works—Gustav Mahler and Pierre Boulez are the two examples that come most readily to mind. Then there were those whose conducting career completely overshadowed their compositions: Wilhelm Furtwängler, Bruno Walter, Otto Klemperer, and Giuseppe Sinopoli all come to mind as famous conductors who never achieved much recognition for their own compositions.

Do you have any opinion on the compositions of these conductors I named, or any others? I'm asking because I've recently become interested in the symphonies of Wilhelm Furtwängler, especially the second, and the opera Lou Salomé by Sinopoli.

Mapman

Quote from: vers la flamme on May 16, 2023, 07:11:57 PMA lot of composers were also active as conductors of their own work, going back to the time of Lully, at least. Then there were composers who gained fame as a conductor-interpreter of other composers, in addition to their own works—Gustav Mahler and Pierre Boulez are the two examples that come most readily to mind. Then there were those whose conducting career completely overshadowed their compositions: Wilhelm Furtwängler, Bruno Walter, Otto Klemperer, and Giuseppe Sinopoli all come to mind as famous conductors who never achieved much recognition for their own compositions.

Do you have any opinion on the compositions of these conductors I named, or any others? I'm asking because I've recently become interested in the symphonies of Wilhelm Furtwängler, especially the second, and the opera Lou Salomé by Sinopoli.

I've hear of Furtwängler's music, but haven't listened yet. I wasn't aware of music by the other conductors you listed, but it's not surprising given the amount of conductors who composed, e.g Gielen, Skrowaczewski, Svetlanov. I've heard some of Svetlanov's music which is interesting with some Spanish influence.

Also there's another very famous (and fabulous) composer-conductor: Bernstein!

vers la flamme

Quote from: Mapman on May 16, 2023, 07:58:55 PMAlso there's another very famous (and fabulous) composer-conductor: Bernstein!

Of course, how could I forget?

Todd

There are other famous historical examples, such as Rafael Kubelik, George Szell, and Richard Strauss, and among today's artists there are Thomas Adès and on occasion Fazil Say, both of whom are also excellent pianists.  In general, most conductor-composers of the recorded era appeal to me more as conductors than composers, with Boulez a sort of exception and Strauss a major exception - though his Mozart recordings I've heard are pretty good.  Adès  has the potential to be an exception over time, as does Say, though in his case I think of him more as a composer-pianist.  I usually find that when someone is more famous as a conductor than a composer, there are usually reasons.
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relm1

I've come to learn Antol Dorati was also a composer.  Also, just because a composer conducts their music doesn't mean they are good conductors.  They are separate skills and being very good at one doesn't automatically make you good at the other.  They are mostly competent but standing in front of a great orchestra, it's actually hard to make them sound bad.  The real test is if the conductor can add or elevate what they would do otherwise.  In a conducting masterclass, the pro ensemble demonstrated what they sound like playing without any conductor and it was damn good.  A student conductor came up to lead them on the same work and they sounded less convincing.  You could also see that most players were ignoring the conductor and following the concertmaster who had his eyes glued on the conductor. 

pjme

I remember that twice before this theme has tickled our imagination:

The conductor as composer

https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,932.0.html

started in 2007 by "Greta"

and in 2008: The composer as conductor

https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,10049.msg251238.html#msg251238

started by Dundonnell

Plenty of good examples and material to search for.


San Antone

Benjamin Britten had an active career as a conductor, as has Thomas Adés, Gyorgy Kurtag, and Esa-Pekka Salonen. 

Lisztianwagner

About historical examples, Alexander Zemlinsky too.
"Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire." - Gustav Mahler

VonStupp

#11
Two come to mind:

Igor Markevitch who has six or seven volumes of compositions on Marco Polo/Naxos. I've only heard a Psalm setting and one other, but remember being intrigued.

Paul Paray has some 10 volumes of his works on Grotto. Some of the choral productions are amateur, and could use higher profile performers, but it is good to have the music recorded, particularly a sweet Christmas Cantata.
Also, on Mercury, there is a Mass of Paray's I enjoy and a Symphony or two. VS
"All the good music has already been written by people with wigs and stuff."

Cato

I knew a guy in high school, one of those who assumed that he was one of the Smart Kids: he once asserted that Pierre Boulez had written Planet of the Apes and The Bridge Over the River Kwai.   ;)

Conductor-Novelist would be interesting!

Has anyone mentioned Igor Markevitch?



https://www.jstor.org/stable/945471
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Daverz

#13
Jean Martinon.  He recorded his Symphony No. 4 with Chicago


And Szeryng recorded his Violin Concerto No. 2 with Kubelik:


Quite good music.

vandermolen

I like Kubelik's 'Orphikon' Symphony
'The Flight of Icarus' by Markevitch
Bernstein's 'Jeremiah' and 'Age of Anxiety' symphonies, 'Facsimile', Symphonic Dances from West Side Story.
Both symphonies by Eugene Goossens and his Oboe Concerto.
Furtwangler's 2nd Symphony
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

pjme

#15
From the musical "Wunderkammer" - forgotten composer-conductors:

André Souris:

https://americansymphony.org/concert-notes/collage/


Fernand Quinet, Manuel Rosenthal and Pierre Bartholomée all conducted the OPRL and were composers.


Tony Aubin  (and Inghelbrecht, Casadesus,....)


René Defossez



relm1

I think very highly of Leopold Stokowski's Symphony (more of a symphonic poem)...

...and Jose Serebrier's Symphonic Variations

vandermolen

Quote from: relm1 on May 18, 2023, 05:57:16 AMI think very highly of Leopold Stokowski's Symphony (more of a symphonic poem)...

...and Jose Serebrier's Symphonic Variations
The Stokowski sounds very promising. Wasn't aware of it.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

ritter

#18
In Italy, Gianandrea Gavazzeni was a composer and conductor, but stopped writing music in the 40s, allegedly when he realised his style was out of step with modern tastes. I think he forbade performances of his music, but after his death some have been revived.

More important as a composer was Gino Marinuzzi (also a highly regarded conductor —his wartime recording of Verdi's La Forza del destino is a classic). His operas Jacquerie and Palla de' Mozzi —in a style I would describe as "neo-renaissance verismo"— have both been recorded, as well as his Symphony (a very interesting work, and critic Paolo Isotta went as far as to rate it  the greatest 20th century Italian symphony).


ritter

#19
Distinguished conductor Leo Blech (1871 -1958) was also a composer. Some of his music (including an opera) has been recorded.



It seems he stopped composing regularly at around the age of 30 or so, with only a couple of works from later in his life.