(http://members.iinet.net.au/~carlvine/g2/pr/Carl_BJW_25.jpg)
1954 Born in Perth, Western Australia, October 8
1959 Began learning the cornet
1960 Student at Hale Primary School, Perth
1964 Fractured 3 vertebrae falling out of a tree during gymnastics. Unable to play the trumpet, so started learning piano.
1967 Student at Guildford Grammar School (Secondary), Perth. Started learning the pipe organ under Choral Director Kathleen Wood. Pianist and Organist for School Church Services, Assemblies and assorted performances.
1970 First Prize in the Australian Society for Music Education Composers' Competition (under-18 section) for 'Unwritten Divertimento': his first complete electronic work.
1971 Completed his first commissioned score, '2 Short Circuits' (electronic tape work), for the West Australian Ballet Company, choreographed by Eleanor Martin. Graduated Dux of Guildford Grammar School with 2 Government University Exhibitions.
1972 Enrolled in Bachelor of Science degree course majoring in Physics at the University of Western Australia. Winner, Open Instrumental Solo division (Piano) of the Perth Music Festival. A.Mus.A. (Associate in Music, Australia) with distinction for Piano from the Australian Music Examinations Board. Harpist (on the piano) with the Queensland Youth Orchestra conducted by John Curro, for James Christiansen's production of 'Tosca' at the Innisfail Festival, North Queensland.
1973 Trainee Sound Recording Engineer at the Tape Transcription Unit, BBC, Shepherds Bush, London (2 months). Created the music soundtrack for experimental films 'IS' and 'Facade' directed by Barrie Oldfield (WA). Winner of the Australian Broadcasting Commission's Instrumental and Vocal Competition (Western Australian division - Piano).
1973-75 Pianist (casual, and occasionally solo) with the West Australian Symphony Orchestra.
1974 Transferred to Bachelor of Music degree course (Composition Major) at the University of Western Australia. A member of the West Australian Debating Team competing at the National Championships in Adelaide.
1975 Participated in the inaugural 'Young Composers' Training Scheme' organised by the Australia Council. Moved to Sydney to commence his professional career.
1975-8 Accompanist and rehearsal pianist for the Sydney Dance Company (then the 'Dance Company of New South Wales'). Created the soundtrack for experimental film 'Envir' directed by Barrie Oldfield. Performed at a vast range of musical, electronic and 'alternative' events in and around Sydney. He was also Musical Director of 'Sounds Nice' vocal duo on the Sydney 'club' circuit with various TV appearances. Until 1980, freelance performer with such groups as the Australia Ensemble, A-Z Music, the Seymour Group, Mused Performance Ensemble, the Ashes of Sydney and others.
1976 Regular performer at the Sydney Opera House 'Environmental Music Series'. Assisted by the Australia Council to attend the Gulbenkian International Choreographic Summer School in Guildford, England.
1977 First fully professional commission for Dance : 'Tip' (for Sydney Dance Company). The score was called '961 Ways to Nirvana', for amplified string quartet, orchestra and electronics. (work subsequently withdrawn)
1978 Resident composer with the Sydney Dance Company. Composed the music for the first all-Australian full-length Ballet - 'Poppy'. Guest performer at 'Music Rostrum '78' (featuring Luciano Berio). Guest conductor for the Seymour Group.
1979 Conductor, pianist and resident composer at the London Contemporary Dance Theatre. Founded the contemporary music performance ensemble 'Flederman' with trombonist Simone de Haan in Sydney. Remained as pianist, composer, conductor and director of the ensemble until 1989.
1980 Participant in the first 'Australian Composers' Summer School' with the ABC Sinfonietta
1980-2 Lecturer in Electronic Music Composition at the Queensland Conservatorium of Music. The Flederman ensemble averaged 30 concerts each year on the Australian eastern seaboard.
1983 Received the 'Adams' award for outstanding contribution to Music for Dance in Australia. Flederman made its first international tour to the USA. Moved to Toowoomba (South-East Queensland) for R & R.
1984 Musical Director of the Australia/New Zealand Choreographic School (Melbourne) directed by Glen Tetley.
1985 Resident Composer at the New South Wales State Conservatorium. From 1985 to 1987, occasional conducting appearances with the Australian Chamber Orchestra.
1987 Resident Composer with the Australian Chamber Orchestra. Guest conductor with the Sydney Philharmonia Society. Flederman receives the Sydney Myer Performing Arts 'Group' Award.
1988 Flederman international tour to Holland, Finland and the UK, including a concert on the opening night of the BBC Proms. Carl's Symphony No. 2 is performed by the Sydney Symphony Orchestra conducted by Stuart Challender across the continental United States, while the West Australian Ballet Company premieres his 'Tempest' choreographed by Jacqui Carroll.
1989 Guest Artist at EVOS Music (Perth), W.A.University and W.A.Academy for the Performing Arts. Awarded the Sounds Australian National Music Critics' Award for the Best Instrumental or Ensemble Work of 1988 ('Miniature IV'). Flederman closes down after their Federal funding is withdrawn.
1990 Awarded the John Bishop Commission to compose Symphony No. 3, premiered by the Sydney Symphony Orchestra under Stuart Challender at the 1990 Adelaide Festival of the Arts.
1992-5 Deputy Chairman of the Australia Council.
1993 Australian Guild of Screen Composers Award for 'Best Music for a Feature Film' (Bedevil). ABC Classics Records releases the premiere recording of Carl Vine's first Three Symphonies performed by the Sydney Symphony Orchestra conducted by the late Stuart Challender.
1994 Australian Guild of Screen Composers Awards for 'Best Original Song' (The Battlers - 'Love Me Sweet') and for 'Best Theme for a Television Series' (The Battlers). Carl's first and second Symphonies choreographed by Glen Tetley for the Canadian National Ballet Company.
2000 Since November 2000, Carl has been the Artistic Director of Musica Viva Australia, the largest entrepreneur of chamber music in the world.
2005 Carl was awarded the prestigious 2005 Don Banks Music Award, the highest accolade that can be given to an artist by the Music Board of the Australia Council for the Arts. The award publicly honours an artist of 'high distinction' who has made an outstanding and sustained contribution to Australian music over a period of many years.
2005 Carl's Cello Concerto was awarded Best Performance of an Australian Composition at the 2005 Classical Music Awards, presented by the Australian Performing Rights Association (APRA) and the Australian Music Centre. The work was premiered in 2004 by Steven Isserlis and the Sydney Symphony Orchestra conducted by Jiri Belohlavek.
2006 As part of his continuing duties as Artistic Director of Musica Viva Australia, Carl was appointed Artistic Director of the Huntington Estate Music Festival, Australia's most prestigious and successful annual chamber music festival.
present Free-lance composer living in Sydney.
Carl Vine is certainly one of the more interesting composers I've heard come out of Australia. He described his work as "radically tonal." The music is tonal, but it has so many interesting harmonies, rhythms, and textures. I think Vine is evidence that Australia has born some fine composers. He's definitely a contemporary composer I enjoy and will continue to support.
Vine may not be as well known outside of Australia as Sculthrope, but I find his music much more interesting, although there are a few Sculthrope works that I do enjoy. Vine's music seems to be of a consistent high quality. I wish more recordings of his music were available.
Have any of you heard of him? What do you think about his music?
I've heard the name but don't know the work. Could you recommend a few pieces you especially like?
That's got to be an old photo.
Amazon offers several CD's, including a 2-CD set of Symphonies I-VI.
http://www.amazon.com/Sydney-Symphony-Orchestra-Synergy-Philharmonic/dp/B000BZDG1E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1280863197&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Sydney-Symphony-Orchestra-Synergy-Philharmonic/dp/B000BZDG1E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1280863197&sr=1-1)
Quote from: Sforzando on August 03, 2010, 11:03:53 AM
I've heard the name but don't know the work. Could you recommend a few pieces you especially like?
I have especially enjoyed all of his symphonies, which most of them are in one movement. I also like his
Piano Concerto, Oboe Concerto, and his ballet
The Tempest. All are especially fine works.
Unfortunately, there is a price to pay in order to hear Vine. His recordings on ABC Classics are quite expensive, but I suggest getting the 2-CD set of his symphonies, which is actually incomplete now, because he not long composed his
Symphony No. 7. But still, it's a fine set that's around $30.
I can tell, though, he's going to be a composer that I'm going to have to listen to pretty heavily. His music on its surface is very attractive, but I can tell there's definitely some depth to the music, which is where the repeated listenings will pay off. His influences are all over-the-map so to speak, but I believe in his fourth symphony I hear an almost Bartokian/Martinu type of rhythm in the syncopations. This rhythmic quality appears in much of his music, which I especially like.
I've been listening to Vine's symphonies all day and I am just so enthralled with them. I think they are some of the finest composed in the last quarter of the 20th Century. His orchestration is top-notch. All instruments are crystal clear and distinguishable. I believe I finally have a post-WWII composer I can finally get behind.
He has composed his seventh symphony not too long ago and I"m really anxious to hear it as well some of the Cello Concerto. This guy is the real deal.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 03, 2010, 11:05:12 AM
That's got to be an old photo.
Oh yeah it's an old picture most definitely. I think this picture was taken around 1994 or so.
I first heard Vine in the late 80's at the first Ivo Pogorelich Piano Competition at the old Abmassador Auditorium, won by a Chinese American pianist (was it Gloria Cheng?). The Carl Vine Piano Sonata was a piece that she played. I heard it on the radio first and later bought a CD featuring it. I remember loving the piece more than anything. The winner was the one who played the piece the best. Funny how a couple of other pianists at the competition had absolutely no clue about the work. From then on, I truly value competitions that requires playing a new piece (such as the Cliburn), instead of the Chopin competition where the Lang Lang's and Li Yundi's can practice the same pieces to death for ten years and win.
Quote from: springrite on August 03, 2010, 05:01:01 PM
I first heard Vine in the late 80's at the first Ivo Pogorelich Piano Competition at the old Abmassador Auditorium, won by a Chinese American pianist (was it Gloria Cheng?). The Carl Vine Piano Sonata was a piece that she played. I heard it on the radio first and later bought a CD featuring it. I remember loving the piece more than anything. The winner was the one who played the piece the best. Funny how a couple of other pianists at the competition had absolutely no clue about the work. From then on, I truly value competitions that requires playing a new piece (such as the Cliburn), instead of the Chopin competition where the Lang Lang's and Li Yundi's can practice the same pieces to death for ten years and win.
Vine's
Piano Sonata is talked about a good bit. Have you heard any of his other works?
Vine's Piano Concerto is a beautiful work. There's only one recording of it and it's with Edo de Waart/Sydney Symphony Orchestra. It's coupled with the Choral Symphony and Symphony No. 4.2, but I bought this recording just for the concerto as I already had bought the symphony set. It was definitely worth it as it's one of the best piano concertos I've heard from a composer of recent times.
If you like Carl Vine, Brett Dean is the next step. He's actually composing music in a new way, the sounds in his music are just out of this world. He's written a number of symphonic & chamber works. There are a number of interviews with him on youtube, but I can't find any of his music. He's well represented on ABC Classics. He won the prestigious Grawemeyer Award in 2009 for his Violin Concerto. I haven't heard that, but have heard a number of his works in concert & on cd, and all I can say is that he is also one of the most interesting Australian composers working today (He's about 6 years Vine's junior)...
Quote from: Sid on August 03, 2010, 08:04:48 PM
If you like Carl Vine, Brett Dean is the next step. He's actually composing music in a new way, the sounds in his music are just out of this world. He's written a number of symphonic & chamber works. There are a number of interviews with him on youtube, but I can't find any of his music. He's well represented on ABC Classics. He won the prestigious Grawemeyer Award in 2009 for his Violin Concerto. I haven't heard that, but have heard a number of his works in concert & on cd, and all I can say is that he is also one of the most interesting Australian composers working today (He's about 6 years Vine's junior)...
Yes, I would like to explore Brett Dean. What do you know about Brenton Broadstock or Kats-Chernin? Have you heard their music? I know Kats-Chernin's
Wild Swans is pretty popular in Australia or at least from what I've read anyway.
Haven't heard much Broadstock, but he's a big name here. As is Kats-Chernin, who is a type of minimalist but very eclectic (throwing in things like Chopin, cabaret, musical clocks into her Piano Concerto No. 2). She is comparable to the UK's Michael Nyman, and similar in her ubiquity in this country - she's done heaps of work in radio, tv, ballet, even co-authoring a cookbook & album "Slow Food." I've only got one cd of her's which includes the above concerto as well as the Wild Swans suite (which is more minimalistic & repetitive than the concerto, which I enjoy better) and a tone poem Mythic. It's on ABC Classics and part of the same TSO series of the Vine cd above. That's a good series, I picked up a couple when they were on special, but at their usual price, they're pretty steep, so I haven't ventured further.
As for Vine, I'll listen to my tape recording of his string quartet from a live broadcast done here in May with the Goldner Quartet (who I'm going to see this weekend, so it ties in pretty nicely). I'll get back to you here about what I think of that work in day or so.
Quote from: Sid on August 03, 2010, 08:24:24 PM
Haven't heard much Broadstock, but he's a big name here. As is Kats-Chernin, who is a type of minimalist but very eclectic (throwing in things like Chopin, cabaret, musical clocks into her Piano Concerto No. 2). She is comparable to the UK's Michael Nyman, and similar in her ubiquity in this country - she's done heaps of work in radio, tv, ballet, even co-authoring a cookbook & album "Slow Food." I've only got one cd of her's which includes the above concerto as well as the Wild Swans suite (which is more minimalistic & repetitive than the concerto, which I enjoy better) and a tone poem Mythic. It's on ABC Classics and part of the same TSO series of the Vine cd above. That's a good series, I picked up a couple when they were on special, but at their usual price, they're pretty steep, so I haven't ventured further.
As for Vine, I'll listen to my tape recording of his string quartet from a live broadcast done here in May with the Goldner Quartet (who I'm going to see this weekend, so it ties in pretty nicely). I'll get back to you here about what I think of that work in day or so.
Well I don't think Kats-Chernin would be my cup of tea as I'm not too keen on minimalism. I do enjoy Arvo Part and some of Steve Reich's works, but generally it's something I can take or leave.
I own several of the ABC Classics recordings now. I'm about to pick-up a recording of Sculthrope's
Piano Concerto. If I were you, I would try and venture into some of Vine's orchestral music, which for me, is very strong and of high quality.
Thanks for starting this. Years ago, I heard the above-mentioned Piano Sonata on a car stereo when I was driving somewhere. I was really impressed by it. Since then I haven't heard a note of Vine's music. But that sonata was so good that I still remember it.
Quote from: Velimir on August 03, 2010, 09:46:29 PM
Thanks for starting this. Years ago, I heard the above-mentioned Piano Sonata on a car stereo when I was driving somewhere. I was really impressed by it. Since then I haven't heard a note of Vine's music. But that sonata was so good that I still remember it.
You should try and explore his symphonies, Velimir. I think you would enjoy them.
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 03, 2010, 05:17:00 PM
Vine's Piano Sonata is talked about a good bit. Have you heard any of his other works?
I have the first three symphonies. Would like to add to that, of course.
I assume this disc with the piano concerto duplicates the recordings included in the ABC symphonies box (the timings look the same)? If so, is there any other disc featuring the work?
(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/6412/00154cafmedium.jpg)
Quote from: Lethe on August 04, 2010, 04:21:20 AM
If so, is there any other disc featuring the work?
(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/6412/00154cafmedium.jpg)
I already stated above that this was the ONLY recording of Vine's
Piano Concerto and this was actually the original release of
Symphonies Nos. 6 & 4.
Quote from: springrite on August 04, 2010, 03:56:15 AM
I have the first three symphonies. Would like to add to that, of course.
Have you listened to them in depth? They are all great works. I particularly love the Vine builds these works and the way his music transitions from let's say a very fast musical passage to a more lyrical slow passage is remarkable.
Quote from: Velimir on August 03, 2010, 09:46:29 PM
Thanks for starting this. Years ago, I heard the above-mentioned Piano Sonata on a car stereo when I was driving somewhere. I was really impressed by it. Since then I haven't heard a note of Vine's music. But that sonata was so good that I still remember it.
The Piano Sonata is a terrific piece. A pianist friend introduced me to it, part of the recital CD by Sergei Babayan (below), on an excellent program that includes Messiaen, Respighi and Ligeti.
I also have the single disc (not the boxed set) with
MicroSymphony, which I like very much as well.
--Bruce
Quote from: bhodges on August 04, 2010, 10:15:24 AMI also have the single disc (not the boxed set) with MicroSymphony, which I like very much as well.
--Bruce
Bruce,
The
MicroSymphony is a fine piece. I would urge you, however, to listen to all of his symphonies as they are all of consistent, high quality.
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 04, 2010, 11:16:54 AM
Bruce,
The MicroSymphony is a fine piece. I would urge you, however, to listen to all of his symphonies as they are all of consistent, high quality.
Oh yes, I'm sure that will happen. "Too much music, too little time." ;)
--Bruce
Listening to Vine's Piano Concerto and what an inspiring work. Full of optimisim and grace. The second movement is especially beautiful with it's note cascades from the piano over a very subtle, lush orchestral backdrop. This is a concerto I would like to see in an American concert program at some point. It would definitely turn many people onto Vine's soundworld I think.
One of the remarkable things about Vine's music is its lyricism, which even when the music is at its most aggressive, that shimmering lyricism finds a way into the surface. He also uses some gorgeous harmonies, which he's a pianist, so I can expect this element to be in his music. The rhythms he employs are also interesting by turns Bartokian or Stravinskian by others almost Latin. This is some hip music for sure.
Here's a good quote from Gramophone Magazine describing Vine's music:
"Carl Vine writes Big Tunes. More, he scores them with Technicolour richness ... his music is rhythmically cogent (I was occasionally reminded of Roy Harris or of Copland) and makes frequent use of ostinato ... some of his most striking effects are in fact quite complex, with richly embroidered polyphony and multiple ostinatos that enable the music to move at two different speeds at once. There is abundant floridly ornamental melody, but beneath the tendrils the melodic substance is often quite simple, even innocent, derived from scale figures or brief cells."
Pickup up the box set and I've just listened to Symphonies 4 and 5 for the first time. I'm sure I will want to dig deep, but 5, (The Percussion Symphony) is the first I will want to repeat for sure-- there are many more lyrical, introspective passages than I would expect for a "percussion" symphony, and the more boisterous passages represent some really great use of rhythm in an orchestra.
4 was a bit more problematic-- I didn't see anything that would scare me away, but it was harder to work to.
I'll keep digging, and thanks for the recommendation!
Quote from: jowcol on August 05, 2010, 06:24:03 AM
Pickup up the box set and I've just listened to Symphonies 4 and 5 for the first time. I'm sure I will want to dig deep, but 5, (The Percussion Symphony) is the first I will want to repeat for sure-- there are many more lyrical, introspective passages than I would expect for a "percussion" symphony, and the more boisterous passages represent some really great use of rhythm in an orchestra.
4 was a bit more problematic-- I didn't see anything that would scare me away, but it was harder to work to.
I'll keep digging, and thanks for the recommendation!
You're welcome.
Symphony No. 3 has some great moments in it as well. But, as I said, all of his symphonies are good and I have enjoyed them. After you absorb the symphonies, you might want to try his ballet
The Tempest. This recording also contains some other works that were enjoyable like
Smith's Alchemy, but I think the
Oboe Concerto is a great work. The slow movement is especially moving.
Interesting thread. And clearly a composer who, along with Brett Dean, I am going to explore.
Has anyone heard Vine's new Sonata for Piano 4 Hands? I am a pretty big fan of his 3 sonatas for piano, and I am always eager to see what he does with the instrument.
As an update-- I've been listening to the 6th symphony, and really love it. I've had several jags where I listen to it repeatedly, sometimes 4-5 times in a row.
Quote from: jowcol on December 20, 2010, 02:48:04 AM
As an update-- I've been listening to the 6th symphony, and really love it. I've had several jags where I listen to it repeatedly, sometimes 4-5 times in a row.
I've had the same reaction to all of his symphonies. The more I listened to them, the more I loved them. Each time I picked up on something I hadn't heard before. I will be returning to this set very soon. Glad to see another Vine fan on here! :)
Quote from: Jezetha on December 19, 2010, 07:59:12 AM
Interesting thread. And clearly a composer who, along with Brett Dean, I am going to explore.
Have you heard any of his music yet, Jezetha?
Quote from: Mirror Image on December 27, 2010, 03:50:22 PM
Have you heard any of his music yet, Jezetha?
No, but I
have acquired the symphonies... Any suggestion for the first one to listen to?
Quote from: Jezetha on December 27, 2010, 04:06:23 PM
No, but I have acquired the symphonies... Any suggestion for the first one to listen to?
I would start with
Symphony No. 3 first, but they're all quite good. Let me know you're impressions of the music after you've absorbed the music.
Quote from: Mirror Image on December 27, 2010, 04:27:24 PM
I would start with Symphony No. 3 first, but they're all quite good. Let me know you're impressions of the music after you've absorbed the music.
I always need to make some mental space for a new composer. So, when I have done that, I'll listen to Carl Vine's 3rd (and report back afterwards).
Quote from: Jezetha on December 28, 2010, 12:36:01 AM
I always need to make some mental space for a new composer. So, when I have done that, I'll listen to Carl Vine's 3rd (and report back afterwards).
FWIW-- I'd probably try the 1st, 6th, and 5th before the third, in that order, but the fact that it's hard to pick a good starting point is a good thing- it shows what a strong cycle this is. The first is convenient because it is short, and also very, very good!
Quote from: jowcol on December 28, 2010, 01:34:00 AM
FWIW-- I'd probably try the 1st, 6th, and 5th before the third, in that order, but the fact that it's hard to pick a good starting point is a good thing- it shows what a strong cycle this is. The first is convenient because it is short, and also very, very good!
Okay - I'll listen to the Vine 1 and 3 first...
I listened to the 1st and the 3rd earlier today.
I like the Vine 'sound'. His orchestral textures are clean and transparant. He can be airy and weighty. He is clearly his own man, but he does remind me of a few other composers: Robert Simpson (the focus on impersonal process over subjective expression), Karl Amadeus Hartmann (the layeredness, the climaxes), John Adams (the extroversion, the use of the orchestra).
The Third is a 'big' piece. It has a very 'evolutionary' feel to it, beginning in the depths as it does, and building and developing from there. The First is short and effective, the Vine style is already fully-formed. The climax of the piece manages to avoid triviality (it sounds like pop music, almost).
I don't know what the music is 'saying'. It is rather abstract. There are melodies here, but they are not 'romantic', more of a factual character (this is what reminds me of Simpson).
These are my first impressions.
Quote from: Jezetha on December 28, 2010, 07:22:17 AM
I listened to the 1st and the 3rd earlier today.
I like the Vine 'sound'. His orchestral textures are clean and transparant. He can be airy and weighty. He is clearly his own man, but he does remind me of a few other composers: Robert Simpson (the focus on impersonal process over subjective expression), Karl Amadeus Hartmann (the layeredness, the climaxes), John Adams (the extroversion, the use of the orchestra).
The Third is a 'big' piece. It has a very 'evolutionary' feel to it, beginning in the depths as it does, and building and developing from there. The First is short and effective, the Vine style is already fully-formed. The climax of the piece manages to avoid triviality (it sounds like pop music, almost).
I don't know what the music is 'saying'. It is rather abstract. There are melodies here, but they are not 'romantic', more of a factual character (this is what reminds me of Simpson).
These are my first impressions.
Thanks for the report. I've never seen much melodic presence in Simpson, but the strong architectural presence I feel as well.
I'd suggest #6 next. It strikes me as having more emotional content-- but it still has a strong sense of structure.
Has anyone heard Vine's Seventh Symphony yet? It was premiered last year (I believe) and has had a few more performances since then.
Quote from: Jezetha on December 28, 2010, 07:22:17 AM
I listened to the 1st and the 3rd earlier today.
I like the Vine 'sound'. His orchestral textures are clean and transparant. He can be airy and weighty. He is clearly his own man, but he does remind me of a few other composers: Robert Simpson (the focus on impersonal process over subjective expression), Karl Amadeus Hartmann (the layeredness, the climaxes), John Adams (the extroversion, the use of the orchestra).
The Third is a 'big' piece. It has a very 'evolutionary' feel to it, beginning in the depths as it does, and building and developing from there. The First is short and effective, the Vine style is already fully-formed. The climax of the piece manages to avoid triviality (it sounds like pop music, almost).
I don't know what the music is 'saying'. It is rather abstract. There are melodies here, but they are not 'romantic', more of a factual character (this is what reminds me of Simpson).
These are my first impressions.
Those are some very good first impressions. ;)
Vine's sound is very enigmatic. You mentioned that you're not quite sure what his music is trying to convey, but this is what makes the music all the more appealing to me. You could spent a good portion of your life trying to figure his music out, which is why I just try to listen to music for what it is at that moment.
Vine spent much of his early career composing dance music and music for theatre. It was only until the early 80s that he started to experiment with the symphonic form. I think he does an amazing job of coaxing textures and colors from the orchestra. He's an adept orchestrator. Deep down, however, there's a lot to explore.
After you've spent some time with the symphonies, which I admit take some time to absorb, you should check out this disc, which features his beautiful
Oboe Concerto and several other very appealing works:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/510q9LGA0eL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
The only downside to collecting Vine is in order to acquire his music, the potential listener has to pay the price. I'm sure you can find this specific recording cheaper in the used market.
Time to revive this thread. I wonder how Johan is coming along with Vine? It's been awhile since he has posted his first impressions.
I saw your link to Carl Vine on Facebook and that reminded me I really should give his symphonies a second listen.... Watch this space.
First, a word of thanks to my fellow GMG'ers for hipping me to this composer. Having listened to the first three symphonies a few times, I've been most impressed. My question: any word on whether symphony 7 is going to get recorded?
Quote from: Grazioso on September 07, 2011, 04:59:36 AM
First, a word of thanks to my fellow GMG'ers for hipping me to this composer. Having listened to the first three symphonies a few times, I've been most impressed. My question: any word on whether symphony 7 is going to get recorded?
I haven't heard anything about the 7th getting recorded. I'd like to hear his
Violin Concerto get recorded as well. Do you own the recording with the
Oboe Concerto as well? This is an excellent recording and it contains some other works like his ballet suite
The Tempest. Here's a link:
[asin]B0002TL756[/asin]
Quote from: Grazioso on September 07, 2011, 04:59:36 AM
First, a word of thanks to my fellow GMG'ers for hipping me to this composer. Having listened to the first three symphonies a few times, I've been most impressed. My question: any word on whether symphony 7 is going to get recorded?
A: You need to check out 5 and 6.
B: Check your messages.
Quote from: jowcol on September 07, 2011, 08:24:31 AM
A: You need to check out 5 and 6.
B: Check your messages.
Don't forget about the 4th or should I say 4.2. This is one of his best IMHO.
And #6, the choral symphony is a brilliant piece too; I've only heard a couple of the other symphonies. Though in my case, this is purely a bit of vested interest speaking, I performed this in Melbourne nearly ten years ago and was planning to organise a performance for the International Astronomical Year in a double bill with Holst's Planets (that idea fell through in negotiations with the orchestra). In the one I sang in, at one of the late rehearsals the organist was absent, so I had to play the rather fiendish organ part. That was a shock to the system!
Quote from: jowcol on September 07, 2011, 08:24:31 AM
A: You need to check out 5 and 6.
B: Check your messages.
Do you know something about the 7th and a possible recording (I assume that is what the private message was about)?
My favorites are 4.2, 5, and 6, for the record. Absolutely love all three of them for completely different reasons.
Quote from: jowcol on September 07, 2011, 08:24:31 AM
A: You need to check out 5 and 6.
B: Check your messages.
I have the two disc-set of symphonies 1-6, my only Vine so far. I'm working my way through all of them.
I checked my messages. I tend to forget to.
Carl Vine in a more recent pic
(http://www.musicaviva.com.au/images/scroller/CarlVineHero02.jpg)
I have a few ( the earlier ones) symphonies, the oboe concerto and the Tempest. definitely intend to explore further.
P.
Quote from: pjme on September 08, 2011, 07:46:55 AMthe oboe concerto
This is a work that still resonates with me. That slow middle movement is absolutely gorgeous.
Time to revive this thread again! I've started learning his first piano sonata recently. Any favorites out there as far as recordings go? Michael Kieran Harvey recorded the work 3 times! All 3 sound quite different. I've also heard others, such as Joyce Yang and Sergei Babayan. It seems like a work that you can bring quite an individual sound to. I really love this sonata (all three sonatas actually), and I doubt this will be the last that I play of Vine. I might even tackle another one of his sonatas in a few years.
Quote from: lescamil on December 30, 2011, 11:30:19 PM
Time to revive this thread again! I've started learning his first piano sonata recently. Any favorites out there as far as recordings go? Michael Kieran Harvey recorded the work 3 times! All 3 sound quite different. I've also heard others, such as Joyce Yang and Sergei Babayan. It seems like a work that you can bring quite an individual sound to. I really love this sonata (all three sonatas actually), and I doubt this will be the last that I play of Vine. I might even tackle another one of his sonatas in a few years.
The First Piano Sonata is wonderful. I have only heard the Babayan recording (which is excellent all around) but would be glad to hear others. IIRC it was composed for the Sydney Dance Company, and I would love to see what they did with it.
Anyway, good for you for working on it - sounds like it would be a lot of fun to play.
--Bruce
Sydney Dance Company, eh? I've always found the piece to be very dance-oriented, and it comes to no surprise that it was composed for a dance company. Michael Kieran Harvey's three recordings really bring out the dance element of the work, I think.
I have recently befriended Carl Vine on Facebook and I sent him a message telling him how I've enjoyed his music and he emailed me back with a warm message. I think this is why Facebook is useful. Anyway, I'm excited to have him as a friend on there and I look forward to conversing more with him. There's no doubt in my mind that he's the finest Australian composer I've heard. Sculthorpe and Edwards are good, but Vine is great.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 02, 2012, 03:06:44 PM
I have recently befriended Carl Vine on Facebook and I sent him a message telling him how I've enjoyed his music and he emailed me back with a warm message. I think this is why Facebook is useful. Anyway, I'm excited to have him as a friend on there and I look forward to conversing more with him. There's no doubt in my mind that he's the finest Australian composer I've heard. Sculthorpe and Edwards are good, but Vine is great.
I discovered Carl Vine a few months ago, and I must admitt that I've been very impressed. He is really good. It's too bad that he doesn't have the right orchestra to play his symphonies (no, that's not my leitmotiv !) : the Sydney SO sounds hazy, indistinct and colourless. These symphonies and orchestral pieces deserve certainly a much better rendition.
However, I wouldn't put Vine at a higher level than Sculthorpe. I love Sculthorpe's music, which I find personnal, imaginative, evocative and very well-written (as Vine's is).
On the contrary, I don't like Edwards : it's inconsistant, it has no clear structure, no good orchestration, dull harmonies. To me it sounds really amateurish. Like Bracanin, f.ex.
A very good Australian composer is Jacob Lentz (maybe he has his thread here, I havn't checked yet).
Quote from: kentel on March 03, 2012, 10:41:34 AM
I discovered Carl Vine a few months ago, and I must admitt that I've been very impressed. He is really good. It's too bad that he doesn't have the right orchestra to play his symphonies (no, that's not my leitmotiv !) : the Sydney SO sounds hazy, indistinct and colourless. These symphonies and orchestral pieces deserve certainly a much better rendition.
However, I wouldn't put Vine at a higher level than Sculthorpe. I love Sculthorpe's music, which I find personnal, imaginative, evocative and very well-written (as Vine's is).
On the contrary, I don't like Edwards : it's inconsistant, it has no clear structure, no good orchestration, dull harmonies. To me it sounds really amateurish. Like Bracanin, f.ex.
A very good Australian composer is Jacob Lentz (maybe he has his thread here, I havn't checked yet).
I agree with you about Edwards. I also agree with you about Sculthorpe. A good composer but a bit hit and miss for me. Carl Vine's symphony set isn't as bad as you make it out to be. I do think, like you, that these works need to be performed more often, but in the first three symphonies you won't find a more passionate advocate of Vine's music than Stuart Challender. May he rest in peace.
Well it certainly seems that, based on the enthusiasm about his music on this forum, I need to delve deeper into Vine's catalogue. I, like most, had my first exposure to his works when I heard his Piano Sonata No. 1, which I was completely captivated by. I also have a recording of his symphonies, but they never really "grabbed" me in the same way the sonata did. This thread has definitely encouraged me to give them another shot. I'll report back once I give them another listen.
Quote from: johncarey on March 04, 2012, 01:49:40 AM
Well it certainly seems that, based on the enthusiasm about his music on this forum, I need to delve deeper into Vine's catalogue. I, like most, had my first exposure to his works when I heard his Piano Sonata No. 1, which I was completely captivated by. I also have a recording of his symphonies, but they never really "grabbed" me in the same way the sonata did. This thread has definitely encouraged me to give them another shot. I'll report back once I give them another listen.
Sounds good, John, and welcome to the forum! 8)
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 03, 2012, 07:29:40 PM
I agree with you about Edwards. I also agree with you about Sculthorpe. A good composer but a bit hit and miss for me. Carl Vine's symphony set isn't as bad as you make it out to be. I do think, like you, that these works need to be performed more often, but in the first three symphonies you won't find a more passionate advocate of Vine's music than Stuart Challender. May he rest in peace.
One of my (many) goals regarding music listening is to go through the whole ABC catalogue, as far as the Australian composers are concerned. So far the three most interesting are IMO
- Georges Lentz
- Peter Sculthorpe
- Carl Vine
As for the others, I enjoyed especially the awesome Tumbling Strain Concerto by
Neil Currie (for trombone), which is one of the most successfull integration of Aborigenal music I've ever heard with Sculthorpe's Didgeridoo Concerto. Some pieces by
Don Banks are worth trying too, especially Meeting Place and Trilogy, some jazz influenced orchestral pieces. I also enjoyed
Brenton Broadstock's 1st Symphony (I havn't listen to the 4th yet. And that's all.
As for the others :
Lumsdaine, Bracanin, Edwards, Conyngham, Antill, Butterley, Williamson, Lehman, Ford, Hill, Jacob, Kerry, Granville-Hicks, Meale, Mills, Sutherland and Koehne, their music may sound pleasant at the best, boring at the worst, but generally lacking in personality. And to me, the orchestra is really an issue there. They don't have good orchestras, not at the international standard in any case.
Quote from: kentel on March 04, 2012, 02:44:56 PMThey don't have good orchestras, not at the international standard in any case.
I'd say recording quality is the bigger issue.
Quote from: kentel on March 04, 2012, 02:44:56 PM
One of my (many) goals regarding music listening is to go through the whole ABC catalogue, as far as the Australian composers are concerned. So far the three most interesting are IMO
- Georges Lentz
- Peter Sculthorpe
- Carl Vine
As for the others, I enjoyed especially the awesome Tumbling Strain Concerto by Neil Currie (for trombone), which is one of the most successfull integration of Aborigenal music I've ever heard with Sculthorpe's Didgeridoo Concerto. Some pieces by Don Banks are worth trying too, especially Meeting Place and Trilogy, some jazz influenced orchestral pieces. I also enjoyed Brenton Broadstock's 1st Symphony (I havn't listen to the 4th yet. And that's all.
As for the others : Lumsdaine, Bracanin, Edwards, Conyngham, Antill, Butterley, Williamson, Lehman, Ford, Hill, Jacob, Kerry, Granville-Hicks, Meale, Mills, Sutherland and Koehne, their music may sound pleasant at the best, boring at the worst, but generally lacking in personality. And to me, the orchestra is really an issue there. They don't have good orchestras, not at the international standard in any case.
Outside of Europe, I'm most interested in Latin American composers. I find so many of the Australian composers lacking a personal compositional voice and any kind of distinctive qualities. Vine and Sculthorpe are pretty much the ones I've liked and have continued to enjoy on a deeper level.
Quote from: eyeresist on March 04, 2012, 05:41:37 PM
I'd say recording quality is the bigger issue.
You're right. In fact, while writing my previous post, I was listening to Broadstock's Festival Overture by the Tasmanian SO, and it also appeared to me, that recording quality may be the issue, and not the quality of the orchestra... (at least, not only).
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 04, 2012, 06:20:15 PM
Outside of Europe, I'm most interested in Latin American composers. I find so many of the Australian composers lacking a personal compositional voice and any kind of distinctive qualities. Vine and Sculthorpe are pretty much the ones I've liked and have continued to enjoy on a deeper level.
I agree. But I want to explore the Australian music world anyway, maybe I'll find something else, who knows... and even if they're not that good, there's still something fresh, a kind of open-air sonority, if I can put it this way. But I'm otherwise most interested in US and Scandinavian composers.
Which Latin-American composers do you especially appreciate ?
Quote from: kentel on March 04, 2012, 11:05:51 PM
I agree. But I want to explore the Australian music world anyway, maybe I'll find something else, who knows... and even if they're not that good, there's still something fresh, a kind of open-air sonority, if I can put it this way. But I'm otherwise most interested in US and Scandinavian composers.
Which Latin-American composers do you especially appreciate ?
Villa-Lobos is my absolute favorite Latin American composer, but he's also in my top 5. Other Latin Americans I enjoy: Ginastera, Revueltas, Chavez, Piazzolla, Moncayo, Ponce, Marquez, Castellanos, Castillo, among others.
His piano concerto is fantastic.
Quote from: Elnimio on March 05, 2012, 08:38:45 AM
His piano concerto is fantastic.
Agreed, especially that slow movement. I can hear those enchanting cascades of notes right now. 8)
Every few years I'm reminded for some reason of the Piano Sonata No.1.
And every time I think: how on earth could I have forgotten about it? When I first heard it, many years ago over the radio from the Sydney International Piano Competition (1992?), it thrilled me in a way almost no other 'modern classical' piece ever has.
I remember watching the Piano Concerto premiere on television. The fact that the premiere of a classical work was ON television is pretty extraordinary, really, but I don't remember responding to it anywhere near as much as the sonata.
Quote from: orfeo on May 09, 2012, 06:46:30 AM
Every few years I'm reminded for some reason of the Piano Sonata No.1.
And every time I think: how on earth could I have forgotten about it? When I first heard it, many years ago over the radio from the Sydney International Piano Competition (1992?), it thrilled me in a way almost no other 'modern classical' piece ever has.
I remember watching the Piano Concerto premiere on television. The fact that the premiere of a classical work was ON television is pretty extraordinary, really, but I don't remember responding to it anywhere near as much as the sonata.
I would say go back and listen to the
Piano Concerto again. It really is a fine work IMHO. The outer movements are quite Bartokian, but the middle movement is lyrically beautiful.
Carl Vine's second piano concerto will be premiered this August by Piers Lane. I really can't wait to hear this piece, and I am hoping I can manage to find a recording of it soon. Here's top hoping it gets broadcast somewhere and I can capture it, or someone else. The first piano concerto is quite a great piece with some brilliant piano writing. I knew that he would write another large piano work eventually. I am hoping that he returns to the sort of pyrotechnics you get in the first two piano sonatas and piano concerto, as opposed to the sort of restrained lyricism you hear in the 3rd piano sonata. Piers Lane can surely handle anything.
On a related note, why is the Sculthorpe topic locked now?
Quote from: lescamil on May 09, 2012, 03:11:53 PM
Carl Vine's second piano concerto will be premiered this August by Piers Lane. I really can't wait to hear this piece, and I am hoping I can manage to find a recording of it soon. Here's top hoping it gets broadcast somewhere and I can capture it, or someone else. The first piano concerto is quite a great piece with some brilliant piano writing. I knew that he would write another large piano work eventually. I am hoping that he returns to the sort of pyrotechnics you get in the first two piano sonatas and piano concerto, as opposed to the sort of restrained lyricism you hear in the 3rd piano sonata. Piers Lane can surely handle anything.
On a related note, why is the Sculthorpe topic locked now?
Yeah, I read he wrote another piano concerto. I'm anxious to hear it, but I'd like to hear his
Violin Concerto and
Symphony No. 7 also.
I'm not sure why the Sculthorpe thread has been locked. Please unlock the Sculthorpe thread moderators.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 09, 2012, 03:38:18 PM
I'm not sure why the Sculthorpe thread has been locked. Please unlock the Sculthorpe thread moderators.
It was locked because you drove the topic off-thread, and then muttered something uncouth in regards to Karl. I'm sure you'll find another composer to rant and rave over though.
Quote from: Philoctetes on May 09, 2012, 03:41:56 PM
It was locked because you drove the topic off-thread, and then muttered something uncouth in regards to Karl. I'm sure you'll find another composer to rant and rave over though.
Yes, but a moderator could easily go into the thread and delete those comments that were off-topic. They didn't have to lock it down. That seems kind of ridiculous.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 09, 2012, 03:52:53 PM
Yes, but a moderator could easily go into the thread and delete those comments that were off-topic. They didn't have to lock it down. That seems kind of ridiculous.
Not to speak for them, but I think that they perhaps don't trust you (or the other posters involved) to heed that warning.
Quote from: Philoctetes on May 09, 2012, 03:53:59 PM
Not to speak for them, but I think that they perhaps don't trust you (or the other posters involved) to heed that warning.
But couldn't they just issue us all a warning instead locking down a thread?
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 09, 2012, 04:02:02 PM
But couldn't they just issue us all a warning instead locking down a thread?
It's called preemption or preventive action. Certain types of threads always end up that way.
Quote from: Philoctetes on May 09, 2012, 04:03:00 PM
It's called preemption or preventive action. Certain types of threads always end up that way.
Well I can always start a new Sculthorpe thread.
Quote from: Philoctetes on May 09, 2012, 04:03:00 PMIt's called preemption or preventive action. Certain types of threads always end up that way.
It's the classical music forum thread equivalent of Iraq! And look how that turned out ;)
Didn't realise there'd been a lockage - hope my "provocative" comment comment survived.
EDIT: Nope. The censors win again.
Quote from: eyeresist on May 09, 2012, 06:11:10 PM
It's the classical music forum thread equivalent of Iraq! And look how that turned out ;)
To not go too far off the tracks, but depending on your perspective, and the sort of things you value, it went well.
To be thread relevant, I've not heard much of Vine's music, but that which I've heard, is fairly gnarly.
Heard this through the grapevine: in December Carl Vine's string quartets 2, 3, 4 and 5 will be released, along with two excerpts from his first string quartet, which doubles as a ballet suite. The latter four are in one movement each ranging from 15 to 22 minutes.
Goldner Quartet on ABC Classics.
Yikes, so no comments for over a year...
...and guess what? Today I bought that string quartets disc! :D
All I've been listening to this evening is string quartet no.3. Partly, that's because it's the first work on the disc. But also it's because of this article: http://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2011/november/1320386866/anna-goldsworthy/right-composition
Specifically, the passage about the Goldner Quartet playing this piece right and making Vine burst into tears.
Mind you, I think I know why previous performances had been so unsatisfactory. To my ears the technical requirements of the outer 'movements' of this quartet are pretty terrifying. But in the hands of the Goldners, it's also electrifying.
Thanks for the reminder . .. will try out the samples of that 'un.
Just discovered Vine's fantastic Piano Concerto (no. 1), a brilliant, exhilarating, and (in the slow movement) touching work. It's written in a very tonal, accessible style but with a wholly individual voice. I urge everyone to hear it!
[asin]B00006IKYH[/asin]
https://youtu.be/YctQ6zeC0as
Quote from: kyjo on September 22, 2018, 12:07:07 PM
Just discovered Vine's fantastic Piano Concerto (no. 1), a brilliant, exhilarating, and (in the slow movement) touching work. It's written in a very tonal, accessible style but with a wholly individual voice. I urge everyone to hear it!
[asin]B00006IKYH[/asin]
https://youtu.be/YctQ6zeC0as
Everything I've heard of his is very finely crafted. All the symphonies are wonderful. He just completed his Symphony No. 8 and Concerto for Two Pianos.
The symphonies? Oh yes, they are well-crafted, nicely tonal with some dissonances, and life-enhancing. I remember liking the No. 3 the most, the first two are not less than enticing. The use of percussion is quite effective, very luminous and strong. Vine surely deserves his credit like one of the leading figures in classical music , in Australia.
I have the box set of the first 6 symphonies.
The first 4 I find rewarding, and from memory I think I particularly liked the 3rd as well. I'm afraid I find the 5th sorely lacking, though, and the 6th only a little better.
I still must purchase a recording of the first piano sonata, at least...
Quote from: Madiel on September 22, 2018, 08:23:22 PM
I have the box set of the first 6 symphonies.
The first 4 I find rewarding, and from memory I think I particularly liked the 3rd as well. I'm afraid I find the 5th sorely lacking, though, and the 6th only a little better.
I still must purchase a recording of the first piano sonata, at least...
I have that set too but haven't listened to it for a long time. Must have another listen.
Any thoughts on Vine's 6th (Choral) Symphony?
It's being performed here at the Grant Park Festival in a few days:
http://www.grantparkmusicfestival.com/2019-season/beethoven-symphony-no-8
I've been YouTubing it and it reminds me of Martinu's Gilgamesh (which is a good thing).
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on June 04, 2019, 03:14:49 PM
Any thoughts on Vine's 6th (Choral) Symphony?
It's being performed here at the Grant Park Festival in a few days:
http://www.grantparkmusicfestival.com/2019-season/beethoven-symphony-no-8
I've been YouTubing it and it reminds me of Martinu's Gilgamesh (which is a good thing).
I like it very much. It is a dramatic and accessible choral symphony full of bombast and tunes. Go see it!
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on June 04, 2019, 03:14:49 PM
Any thoughts on Vine's 6th (Choral) Symphony?
It's being performed here at the Grant Park Festival in a few days:
http://www.grantparkmusicfestival.com/2019-season/beethoven-symphony-no-8
I've been YouTubing it and it reminds me of Martinu's Gilgamesh (which is a good thing).
I'm personally not a fan. To me it's just "okay" based on the recording (the ABC set of symphonies 1-6). But a choral symphony might well make a better impression performed live.
There is a new release of Carl Vine's Symphony NO. 8 and Concerto for Orchestra for those interested. Fine music of quality and vitality.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51rFbKoDo3L._UX358_FMwebp_QL85_.jpg)
Quote from: relm1 on September 23, 2022, 06:40:53 AM
There is a new release of Carl Vine's Symphony NO. 8 and Concerto for Orchestra for those interested. Fine music of quality and vitality.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51rFbKoDo3L._UX358_FMwebp_QL85_.jpg)
Agreed. This is a great release. All of his symphonies are high quality. The only work that I haven't got on so well yet from Vine, is his Choral Symphony #6. Aside from the symphonies, his SQs are well worth hearing. As far as this new release is concerned, I would also put in a plug for his
Smith's Alchemy, which is such a lovely piece of music.
Quote from: relm1 on September 23, 2022, 06:40:53 AM
There is a new release of Carl Vine's Symphony NO. 8 and Concerto for Orchestra for those interested. Fine music of quality and vitality.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51rFbKoDo3L._UX358_FMwebp_QL85_.jpg)
Cool. Though weirdly there doesn't seem to be any recording of Symphony no.7 available. I would have thought ABC would've wanted that to happen.