A while ago someone asked if depression (etc) affected composers' music & I just thought of William Byrd, who was a catholic living in protestant England during the renaissance. He survived because QE1 protected him; even though he was a catholic it was worth keeping him around because he was such a good composer (so the story goes). I've only got one cd with anything by him:
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51QPHNB1A9L._AA240_.jpg)
I've had that album for quite a while but finally listened to it all loud enough to hear everything & I also followed along with the scores & I think I can finally appreciate his music. I especially like the opening track on the 1st disc. Now I think it would be worthwhile to get some more recordings of his stuff. 8) I've also got a dvd of the Tallis Scholars
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51T7Y6NYN5L._AA240_.jpg)
performing some of his music & also a short documentary on his life, etc as a catholic living in protestant England. I'll have to watch again now that I've changed my mind about this guy. :P
I love the three Mass of Byrd, in special by the Tallis Scholars.
Regarding the harpsichord music, the recent recording of Leonhardt (2004) is a pure delight.
Given my increasing interest in early keyboard music, it's only natural that I'm considering this recording:
Moroney plays Byrd
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51HW5S7SJ0L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
I think it's a selection from a big box of Byrd done by this harpsichordist. Anyone heard it?
byrd is cool, no doubt about it. i have some of his stuff myself.
dj
Quote from: val on August 21, 2007, 01:20:25 AM
Regarding the harpsichord music, the recent recording of Leonhardt (2004) is a pure delight.
I just got this, and I agree. Wonderful disc on all counts. I'm changing my mind about harpsichords; if they continue to sound this good, I'll have nothing to complain about :)
My only other Byrd keyboard recording is the notoriously unHIP Gould on piano, which I enjoy too. Ain't early Baroque wonderful?
Not even a full page for Byrd!?!?!? :o
Oh well, I'll change that...
http://www.youtube.com/v/CW8y-cjX_gs
Is Byrd the greatest British composer? I think he might be. In addition to the high quality and large amount of his work, he was the first great composer for keyboard, launching the tradition passed on via Sweelinck and the German Organ School to Bach and beyond. That's pretty significant.
"Byrd was the leading English composer of his generation, and together with his continental colleagues Giovanni Palestrina (c.1525-1594) and Orlando de Lassus (1532-1594), one of the acknowledged great masters of the late Renaissance. Byrd is considered by many the greatest English composer of any age, and indeed his substantial volume of high quality compositions in every genre of the time makes it easy to consider him the greatest composer of the Renaissance – his versatility and genius outshining those of Palestrina and Lassus in a self-evident way.
...Byrd's huge legacy of music – several hundred individual compositions – makes him one of the most brilliant composers in Western history. His vocal music has retained its popularity from his own time directly into ours, and his other music is now growing in appreciation as it is rediscovered. In particular, Byrd's position in the history of keyboard music is once again assured, and his contribution to the development of the North German virtuoso style is now firmly established." ~ Todd McComb (Classical.net 6/94)
http://www.youtube.com/v/Op8yU7Rl1TU
Quote from: James on August 18, 2007, 12:34:35 PM
another aspect is that Byrd was one of the keyboard geniuses...revolutionary in this regard, very inventive & brilliant...love that disc of Gould playing some of his works, along with the works of other contemporaries from around that time (Gibbons & Sweelinck)...
The Gould disc is wonderful, James.
http://www.youtube.com/v/vLzduBMCXJs&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/v/xyfZOZwuFM8&feature=related
Quote from: Velimir on November 05, 2009, 01:20:21 AM
Given my increasing interest in early keyboard music, it's only natural that I'm considering this recording:
Moroney plays Byrd
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51HW5S7SJ0L._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Isz7SPuSL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41av%2BC2L5qL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
I think it's a selection from a big box of Byrd done by this harpsichordist. Anyone heard it?
Sure, I had the one CD compilation - excellent! But replaced it w/ the entire 7-CD box; a less expensive but outstanding option is the 3-disc set w/ Elizabeth Farr; also, own some other Byrd, mostly masses w/ different groups - certainly the top English composer of his era, and I would also rank him high overall but hard to compare his music to that the the latter 19th & 20th century English composers? :)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 04, 2011, 09:26:20 AM
"Byrd was the leading English composer of his generation, and [snipped]
It's funny, but I think this quote you dug up is something I once read, and then unconsciously paraphrased in my post above. He says it better than I did, so thanks for finding it.
Quote from: SonicMan46 on October 04, 2011, 09:45:31 AM
Sure, I had the one CD compilation - excellent! But replaced it w/ the entire 7-CD box;
In the 2 years since I asked that question, I acquired the excellent 1-CD compilation, as well as the Leonhardt disc; and for the moment I'm happy with those two. The Big Byrd Box does look quite tempting.
Quote from: Velimir on October 05, 2011, 01:51:46 AM
In the 2 years since I asked that question, I acquired the excellent 1-CD compilation, as well as the Leonhardt disc; and for the moment I'm happy with those two. The Big Byrd Box does look quite tempting.
For those interested, esp. in the USA (not sure about shipping 'across the pond'), BRO (Berkshire Record Outlet) has the
Byrd Box of 7 discs for just $42! See attachment - :) P.S. place of my purchase last year, I believe.
Quote from: SonicMan46 on October 05, 2011, 06:09:58 AM
For those interested, esp. in the USA (not sure about shipping 'across the pond'), BRO (Berkshire Record Outlet) has the Byrd Box of 7 discs for just $42! See attachment - :) P.S. place of my purchase last year, I believe.
Thanks!
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512GAvluwLL._SS300_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/617vKhRTkPL._SS300_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51c17tDbArL._SS300_.jpg)
These are currently my most listened to Byrd recordings. Well played discs of music from different genres (consort, keyboard, sacred, songs).
Even Byrds need Lawes!
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5qNdvoe4EdM/T385kcE3K6I/AAAAAAAAB6E/nR1C_9bD0sI/s1600/DIP-YOUR-EARS.png)
Dip Your Ears, No. 129 (Viols and Organ)
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/03/dip-your-ears-no-129-viols-and-organ.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/03/dip-your-ears-no-129-viols-and-organ.html)
"Consorts to the Organ" confusingly means exactly what it says: a consort – of viols – to accompany a – chamber – organ. The consort makes the majority of the merry noise of the musicke of Billy Lawes (1602 – 1645)...
Welcome to The Byrdhouse The Laws of Lawes ;)
Thanks for the link, Jens. Phantasm is a good ensemble, have you heard their Byrd recordings?
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on March 16, 2013, 02:11:52 PM
Welcome to The Byrdhouse The Laws of Lawes ;)
Thanks for the link, Jens. Phantasm is a good ensemble, have you heard their Byrd recordings?
Only the one on Linn, not the ones on Simax.
I posted about this CD on the Listening thread, but it deserves mention here:
[asin]B001CISXK8[/asin]
Y'all may remember a certain set of Victoria's works by this group.
Well, this one--a selection of motets from the Gradualia for the feasts of the Blessed Sacrament and SS. Peter and Paul, with a few keyboard works (on organ) mixed in--is even better.
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on March 16, 2013, 07:12:12 PM
I posted about this CD on the Listening thread, but it deserves mention here:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51xMGsQ0h-L.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/William-Michael-Noone-Ensemble-Ultra/dp/B001CISXK8)
Y'all may remember a certain set of Victoria's works by this group.
Well, this one--a selection of motets from the Gradualia for the feasts of the Blessed Sacrament and SS. Peter and Paul, with a few keyboard works (on organ) mixed in--is even better.
I see Amazon's Giordano Bruno praises it as well - to me personally a very good sign indeed! :)
It goes on the wish list forthwith. 8) Thanks for pointing it out! :)
Q
I know, I know, the mere alluding to Glenn Gould is anathema for you guys yet I can't help loving his performance of Byrde's music.
*runs as fast as possible*
Quote from: Florestan on March 17, 2013, 11:55:43 AM
I know, I know, the mere alluding to Glenn Gould is anathema for you guys yet I can't help loving his performance of Byrde's music.
Where did you get that idea? ;D Gould's "Consort of Musicke" album was what convinced me to listen to early keyboard music in the first place. It's a classic.
Hey, guys, please make allowance... these might very well be my last full-time days on GMG. :D :D :D
I'm curious what GMG Byrders think about the following recording:
(http://ecmreviews.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/byrd1.jpg)
Byrd: MOTETS AND MASS FOR FOUR VOICES (Hillier & Theatre of Voices - ECM)
I mainly know vocal music by Byrd from the Tallis Scholars' ~80s recordings and that disc of the GRADUALIA etc on Musica Omnia. In fact, I should probably just get the Cardinall's Musick series and be done with it, but still curious about the Hillier recording.
(http://is2.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music/v4/8c/98/2f/8c982f80-420d-c1fe-95b4-758258b2c74c/source/1402x1379sr.jpg)
Let me kick this off by saying that I was listening to the CD of Cantiones Sacrae 1589 and Gradualia Bk 1 by the Cardinall's Music the other day, probably superficially, and was struck by how agitated and tense some of them sounded. I've noticed a similar thing in Bull sometimes, the way Leon Berben plays the Walsingham Variations. I guess he lived in pretty turbulent and bitter times for a Catholic.
I hardly know his choral music, I'm slightly more familiar with the instrumental music.
Anyway, here's a thread about everyone's favourite Renaissance Brit.
Should merge with this (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,2750.0.html), I think.
Quote from: karlhenning on November 11, 2015, 09:39:52 AM
Should merge with this (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,2750.0.html), I think.
Ah. Well can we keep my name or give it a name with Byrd in it? No wonder I didn't find it.
(http://d24jnm9llkb1ub.cloudfront.net/icpn/5400439000148/5400439000148-cover-zoom.jpg)
Herreweghe has released the Byrd mass a5 with some motets, and I've started to listen to the mass. If you're not looking for the beautiful, impersonal, blended sound English cathedral singers, and you don't object to passionate, slightly agitated, rhetorical expression in this sort of context, then this may be quite a good bet.
I'm not sure how I feel about these questions, yet. I think I find it exciting but callow, but I'm not sure.
Quote from: Mandryka on November 21, 2015, 10:03:52 AM
(http://d24jnm9llkb1ub.cloudfront.net/icpn/5400439000148/5400439000148-cover-zoom.jpg)
Herreweghe has released the Byrd mass a5 with some motets, and I've started to listen to the mass. If you're not looking for the beautiful, impersonal, blended sound English cathedral singers, and you don't object to passionate, slightly agitated, rhetorical expression in this sort of context, then this may be quite a good bet.
I'm not sure how I feel about these questions, yet. I think I find it exciting but callow, but I'm not sure.
All that aside, I am assuming Herreweghe uses a choir, whereas, I vastly prefer OVPP singing the Mass. There is fairly recent recording (actually a reissue of a recording form 2010) of the Mass with five singers, the Vienna Vocal Consort, that while not perfect (I wish they were an all-male group) would be more enjoyable for me.
(http://www.vocalconsort.at/Pictures/cdbyrd.jpg)
(http://rymimg.com/lk/f/l/dd42f34d5c7f515f9305fe920c55b3d8/3007835.jpg)
I think I've found a mass à5 that's a bit special - Deller's.
Transparent, voix égales balance, each voice full of personality, no sense of that pure blend you get in English cathedral singing. The interpretation is not really agitated and dramatic and exciting, and hence a contrast with Herreweghe's. The singing style is dated: they sing forth like opera singers and you can hear their posh public school bray behind the words.
I'm not sure what modern scholarship has unearthed about authentic interpretation, maybe someone can help out here. Possibly the Dellers made all sorts of presuppositions about modal purity which made them avoid dissonances, I'm not expert enough to comment with authority on this. But I am sure that this is a historical treasure, and I can't wait to hear them do the mass à 3 and à 4.
Sound quality is not a problem, though clearly dated and a bit harsh.It's a Harmonia Mundi France transfer to CD. Does anyone have the LP? Is the sound good on the LP?
Quote from: sanantonio on November 21, 2015, 02:36:49 PM
(http://www.vocalconsort.at/Pictures/cdbyrd.jpg)
Her voice sticks out because it's so feminine, unboyish. Have you heard Hilliard Ensemble in the 5 part mass?
Quote from: karlhenning on November 11, 2015, 09:39:52 AM
Should merge with this (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,2750.0.html), I think.
Done.
Quote from: Mandryka on November 11, 2015, 10:06:13 AM
Ah. Well can we keep my name or give it a name with Byrd in it? No wonder I didn't find it.
We can keep your name. :)
Quote from: Mandryka on November 22, 2015, 09:24:00 PM
Her voice sticks out because it's so feminine, unboyish. Have you heard Hilliard Ensemble in the 5 part mass?
Yes; that is my go-to recording.
I don't think the masses are Byrd's best music. Increasingly the Motets in the 1605 / 1607 Gradualia are getting more and more of my attention - this is possibly his major masterpiece, or one of them.
Having said that, they've been so little recorded it's hard to tell. I've managed to find a polished recording of music from 1607 from a group called Plus Ultra, but IMO volume 10 of the Cardinall's Musick, which includes a selection of 1605 Gradualia, puts it in the shade, mainly because of the dramatic and passionate performance style. This could well be the best Byrd CD I've heard so far.
(http://www.cardinallsmusick.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/byrd10-168x168.jpg)
It's interesting to compare the style in Cantiones Sacrae with the Gradualia on that disc. The Gradualia are so much more modern, more imaginative, more energetic.
What a shame there doesn't seem to be a complete Gradualia - the project reminds me of Orgelbuchlein and Orgelbuchlein is very satisfying to hear in its entirety, despite not being intended for that. I'm hoping, expecting, the same would be true of the Gradualia.
Quote from: Mandryka on November 23, 2015, 09:35:46 PM
What a shame there doesn't seem to be a complete Gradualia - the project reminds me of Orgelbuchlein and Orgelbuchlein is very satisfying to hear in its entirety, despite not being intended for that. I'm hoping, expecting, the same would be true of the Gradualia.
If you get all 13 volumes of the Cardinall's Musick series, you will end up with all the Gradualia items. I suppose the argument against recording them entire in isolation is that they're intended to be combined, chopped about, mixed and matched, to furnish the Mass propers for any number of different feasts. (The prime example is the long "piece"
Diffusa est gratia, bits of which turn up in three or four different Masses but which is never performed in its entirety.)
Do you know the old Hyperion disc by the William Byrd choir?:
[asin]B000066448[/asin]
I believe that was the start (and sadly end) of an attempt to record a complete Gradualia. It's excellent, and the disc comes with detailed instructions on programming tracks to create the Marian Mass of your choice. (All you need then is a companion recording of the Mass ordinaries sung at the same pitch.)
DF
Quote from: DaveF on November 23, 2015, 11:16:30 PM
If you get all 13 volumes of the Cardinall's Musick series, you will end up with all the Gradualia items. I suppose the argument against recording them entire in isolation is that they're intended to be combined, chopped about, mixed and matched, to furnish the Mass propers for any number of different feasts. (The prime example is the long "piece" Diffusa est gratia, bits of which turn up in three or four different Masses but which is never performed in its entirety.)
Do you know the old Hyperion disc by the William Byrd choir?:
[asin]B000066448[/asin]
I believe that was the start (and sadly end) of an attempt to record a complete Gradualia. It's excellent, and the disc comes with detailed instructions on programming tracks to create the Marian Mass of your choice. (All you need then is a companion recording of the Mass ordinaries sung at the same pitch.)
DF
Thanks, I've ordered that CD.
Quote from: Mandryka on November 23, 2015, 09:35:46 PM
I don't think the masses are Byrd's best music. Increasingly the Motets in the 1605 / 1607 Gradualia are getting more and more of my attention - this is possibly his major masterpiece, or one of them.
Having said that, they've been so little recorded it's hard to tell. I've managed to find a polished recording of music from 1607 from a group called Plus Ultra, but IMO volume 10 of the Cardinall's Musick, which includes a selection of 1605 Gradualia, puts it in the shade, mainly because of the dramatic and passionate performance style. This could well be the best Byrd CD I've heard so far.
(http://www.cardinallsmusick.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/byrd10-168x168.jpg)
It's interesting to compare the style in Cantiones Sacrae with the Gradualia on that disc. The Gradualia are so much more modern, more imaginative, more energetic.
What a shame there doesn't seem to be a complete Gradualia - the project reminds me of Orgelbuchlein and Orgelbuchlein is very satisfying to hear in its entirety, despite not being intended for that. I'm hoping, expecting, the same would be true of the Gradualia.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51xMGsQ0h-L.jpg)
The Plus Ultra CD is this, I assume.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Szyz4bP0L.jpg)
You can find used copies of this cheaply enough, although I remember it as being far more "polished" than the Plus Ultra recording.
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on November 24, 2015, 05:42:01 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51xMGsQ0h-L.jpg)
The Plus Ultra CD is this, I assume.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Szyz4bP0L.jpg)
You can find used copies of this cheaply enough, although I remember it as being far more "polished" than the Plus Ultra recording.
Yes that's the Plus Ultra. The Chanticleer is available on Qobuz and spotify, under the name "Music for a Hiddden Chapel", and my initial impression is that it's worth hearing. Thanks.
What is this mass "in tempore paschali" and the other masses on the disc? Are they masses chanticleer have assembled themselves from the Gradualia? Is there a good book about Byrd?
I think I need to find out more about what a catholic mass is!
Quote from: Mandryka on November 24, 2015, 09:53:02 PM
Yes that's the Plus Ultra. The Chanticleer is available on Qobuz and spotify, under the name "Music for a Hiddden Chapel", and my initial impression is that it's worth hearing. Thanks.
What is this mass "in tempore paschali" and the other masses on the disc? Are they masses chanticleer have assembled themselves from the Gradualia? Is there a good book about Byrd?
I think I need to find out more about what a catholic mass is!
I can't locate my copy at the moment, but I think they assembled appropriate parts of the Gradualia into two sequences to represent the propers of two masses, one for Eastertide, the other a Marian service. In theory one could take Byrd's settings of the ordinary--what we call the Masses for 3/4/5 Voices--as a framework for the proper settings published in the Gradualia, and gain a full liturgical service. But I do not know if anyone has done it. Perhaps the Cardinal's Musick?
Music for a Hidden Chapel was the title used for the reissue on HM's super budget label.
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on November 25, 2015, 05:36:57 PM
In theory one could take Byrd's settings of the ordinary--what we call the Masses for 3/4/5 Voices--as a framework for the proper settings published in the Gradualia, and gain a full liturgical service. But I do not know if anyone has done it. Perhaps the Cardinal's Musick?
No, they haven't, at least not on disc nor in any of their concerts that I know of. You can of course assemble your own with a CD changer, although the keys often don't come out right (I think it's generally assumed that a complete mass would be performed in the same mode at the same pitch). This disc:
[asin]B00005UNXE[/asin]
presents a couple of complete masses (All Saints with the 5-part mass and SS Peter & Paul with the 4-part), but sadly, to my ears, it's not a particularly distinguished disc - distant recording and rather workaday performances. Worth £2 from am.uk marketplace, though.
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on November 24, 2015, 05:42:01 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51xMGsQ0h-L.jpg)
The Plus Ultra CD is this, I assume.
I love that one! :) Definitely an approach that differs from many others.
Quote from: DaveF on November 23, 2015, 11:16:30 PM
If you get all 13 volumes of the Cardinall's Musick series [...]
I would be interested to do that - anyone knows when the box set is due? :D
Q
Quote from: Que on November 27, 2015, 09:15:46 AM
anyone knows when the box set is due? :D
That's a fair question; the Cardinall's Fayrfax and Ludford boxes appeared fairly quickly after the completions of the series (the former, to the despair of completists, including a newly-authenticated piece not on the original discs), but no sign of any Byrd box 5 years on. I guess that the fact of the series being split between two labels (ASV and Hyperion) might cause problems. Or perhaps sales are just holding up well enough to make it worth keeping it on individual discs.
Quote from: DaveF on November 27, 2015, 02:11:53 PM
I guess that the fact of the series being split between two labels (ASV and Hyperion) might cause problems.
That must be it, usually a BIG stumbling block....I didn't realize... ::)
But they better figure something out toghether, because NO way that I am going to collect a 14 disc completetely finished series at full price in this day and age! ??? :D
Q
Is the complete Byrd actually finished? I can't find eructavit cor meum (a gradual) for example (but I could have easily overlooked it.)
Gavin Turner's disc arrived today, DaveF recommended it. That's why I started looking foreructavit for meum. The Turner recording sounds interesting.
Quote from: Mandryka on November 28, 2015, 07:00:18 AM
Is the complete Byrd actually finished? I can't find eructavit cor meum
Eructavit is one of those transferrable units that turns up in a number of different places - it's the verse of the introits of Mass for:
The Annunciation/Lady Mass during Christmas (
Vultum tuum deprecabuntur)
The Assumption of the BVM (
Gaudeamus omnes in Domino)
The Nativity of the BVM/Lady Mass during Paschal Time (
Salve sancta parens)
so you can hear it a total of (I think) 4 times on the Cardinall's discs - on nos. 8, 10 and twice on 12. It doesn't get a track to itself because it isn't a stand-alone piece; the Gavin Turner recording gives it one so that you can programme it into the various required combinations.
So yes, the Cardinall's edition is exhaustively complete, in that the music for all the feasts is presented in full, even when it means duplicating pieces. (Even they don't get it quite right, since they perform
Salve sancta parens on Disc 12 with Alleluias which, as part of Mass for the Nativity of the BVM, it shouldn't have; you'd think that Our Lady would deserve a quick Alleluia on her birthday, but nope.)
Of course, the "complete" edition only includes the Latin sacred music. It's sad to read the booklet notes to volume 1, written when the plan was still to make it a true "Opera omnia". I think, apart from time and money (it took nearly 15 years to produce the 13 volumes), Andrew Carwood came to feel that the Cardinall's were not the best group to do the English music, especially the songbooks. Sadly, no-one else seems interested in tackling it in any sort of comprehensive way either.
DF
Oh my goodness! I can see that keeping track of Byrd's music is a complicated business!
I've been listening to Vol 7 of Cardinall's Musick, which seems a great success, heartfelt and melancholy motets from Cantiones Sacrae and energetic Gradualia for a contrast. I think that this and vol 10 would be great places to start for anyone thinking of dipping in to the set.
(http://www.cardinallsmusick.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/byrd7-168x168.jpg)
The music is very good indeed.
Quote from: Que on November 28, 2015, 12:49:42 AM
NO way that I am going to collect a 14 disc completetely finished series at full price in this day and age! ??? :D
Most of them can be got fairly cheaply from Amazon MP or eBay - I can see volume 1 on am.uk at the moment for £2.49, for example. Anyway, it took me 15 full-price years to collect the lot - you gotta suffer for great art (he said, moving aside piles of yet-to-be-listened-to bargain boxes on desk so as to see what he's typed...)
Quote from: Mandryka on November 28, 2015, 10:57:54 PM
I've been listening to Vol 7 of Cardinall's Musick, which seems a great success, heartfelt and melancholy motets from Cantiones Sacrae and energetic Gradualia for a contrast. I think that this and vol 10 would be great places to start for anyone thinking of dipping in to the set.
(http://www.cardinallsmusick.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/byrd7-168x168.jpg)
The music is very good indeed.
Yes, agree totally, especially about vol.7. This is going to sound pretentious, but I'll say it anyway: one of the Matthews brothers (David or Colin, I forget which) remarked once that he was afraid to listen to Mahler 6 because it might give him a heart attack, and
Tristitia et anxietas falls almost into that category for me. Oddly enough, volume 6 seems to spend the most time on my turntable, or whatever the virtual equivalent is, even though over half of it is Passion plainchant (only chance in the set actually to hear Andrew Carwood sing), because it also includes the Easter Mass and the incomparable
Plorans plorabit.
.
When I said that I had all CM's Byrd, I was forgetting that I didn't have vol 9, which is rare for some mysterious reason. Anyway the good news is that it's just been uploaded on symphonyshare so I have it now, and jolly good it is too - very cheerful! Mostly Gradualia but also a nice performance of a Magnificat and Ave Verum Corpus.
Who else besides Byrd composed polyphonic music for the Graduals? On all the mass performances I can think of they're in plainsong.
I'm toying with the idea of getting Kerry McCarthy's book on the gradualia. Does anyone think that would be a mistake?
Quote from: Mandryka on December 06, 2015, 07:16:02 AM
vol 9, which is rare for some mysterious reason.
So it is - no sign on any of the amazons.
Quote from: Mandryka on December 06, 2015, 07:16:02 AM
Who else besides Byrd composed polyphonic music for the Graduals?
Well, Palestrina, of course, and no doubt Guerrero, whom I've heard described as the most prolific composer of all time.
Quote from: Mandryka on December 06, 2015, 07:16:02 AM
I'm toying with the idea of getting Kerry McCarthy's book on the gradualia. Does anyone think that would be a mistake?
No, not unless you were going for the $566 copy on amazon. She's immensely illuminating, frighteningly intelligent, takes nothing for granted and writes like an angel. If you're thinking of this one, does that mean you already have her "Byrd" volume in the Master Musicians series? - similarly recommendable.
Having a splurge on consort songs at the moment, the area of Byrdie's output that I know least well (not helped by their rather patchy coverage on disc). Bought in the last couple of days:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/518T654BBJL.jpg)
[asin]B000025ZV0[/asin]
[asin]B000UZD4SA[/asin]
The second of these is, I have to say, really terrible, but includes (afaik) the only recordings of a couple of items. But the first makes up for everything - one of Dame Emma's own favourite recordings, silly prices for the physical disc, but reasonable as a Qobuz download.
After nearly 5 years, TTT! :laugh:
Currently looking at my 'Early Music' collection and am on William Byrd - presently if have 14 CDs (including multi-disc sets), shown below. I feel the KB & consort works are covered, along w/ the masses - but what seems to be missing are more 'vocal' pieces; also I'm curious about whether any recent 'piano' versions of these keyboard works have emerged recently. Any comments and suggestions appreciated. Thanks. Dave
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71rY6K4P9XL._SL1400_.jpg) (https://cdn.naxos.com/SharedFiles/images/cds/others/8.570139-41.gif) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51DK4CCsarL.jpg)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71ShHKyA-GL._SL1200_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71JwpQ-6tSL._SL1200_.jpg) (https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571150475.png)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on September 06, 2021, 07:35:48 AM
After nearly 5 years, TTT! :laugh:
Currently looking at my 'Early Music' collection and am on William Byrd - presently if have 14 CDs (including multi-disc sets), shown below. I feel the KB & consort works are covered, along w/ the masses - but what seems to be missing are more 'vocal' pieces; also I'm curious about whether any recent 'piano' versions of these keyboard works have emerged recently. Any comments and suggestions appreciated. Thanks. Dave
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71rY6K4P9XL._SL1400_.jpg) (https://cdn.naxos.com/SharedFiles/images/cds/others/8.570139-41.gif) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51DK4CCsarL.jpg)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71ShHKyA-GL._SL1200_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71JwpQ-6tSL._SL1200_.jpg) (https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571150475.png)
If you like Lesne's voice this may be worth thinking about
(https://img.discogs.com/MeWY1EF0SAafWXxjgXGB5U4l5uw=/fit-in/600x593/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-15983957-1630933925-6094.jpeg.jpg)
And if you like Claire Wilkinson's voice this may be worth thinking about
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61KQFuqdpbL._SX425_.jpg)
Same for this, you have to like their voices of course
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/817Gk4uNx2L._AC_SL1500_.jpg)
Thanks for the reminder...I have no expertise in this field, but very much enjoyed what I've heard from the Cardinall's Musick on Hyperion. Was meaning to acquire more by that ensemble, but as noted above their "complete" series seems to have stalled out, and even [IMO] been rendered unlikely by a recording label change. Sadly, few Hyperions remain available from my preferred Hyperion vendor (Berkshire Record Outlet).
Quote from: Mandryka on September 06, 2021, 09:56:08 AM
If you like Lesne's voice this may be worth thinking about:
And if you like Claire Wilkinson's voice this may be worth thinking about:
Same for this, you have to like their voices of course:
(https://img.discogs.com/MeWY1EF0SAafWXxjgXGB5U4l5uw=/fit-in/600x593/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-15983957-1630933925-6094.jpeg.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61KQFuqdpbL._SX425_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/817Gk4uNx2L._AC_SL1500_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91IG8sRGa%2BS._SL1500_.jpg)
Thanks
Mandryka for the recommendations above - might be difficult to find at a good price on Amazon - will check Spotify to see if I can listen to the singers; I usually enjoy the singing in 'early music'.
The reason I asked about using a 'piano' in these KB works is the newly released 2-CD set w/ Kit Armstrong (added above) - the attached reviews are quite positive - I'll look for that too on Spotify. Thanks again. Dave :)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on September 06, 2021, 10:58:23 AM
Thanks Mandryka for the recommendations above - might be difficult to find at a good price on Amazon - will check Spotify to see if I can listen to the singers; I usually enjoy the singing in 'early music'.
The reason I asked about using a 'piano' in these KB works is the newly released 2-CD set w/ Kit Armstrong (added above) - the attached reviews are quite positive - I'll look for that too on Spotify. Thanks again. Dave :)
One of the reviews of that piano cd mentioned this -- which I just ordered
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71tQtJmpx7L._AC_SL1050_.jpg)
I listened to Kit play the Byrd 10th Pavan -- it's not for me, mainly because I think the way he uses dynamics is a bit maudlin, but also because I think the piano trills sound kooky. I also sampled Wild Wood, and felt that somehow the harpsichord, or some harpsichords, make the bass as strong as the treble as it were, and it's a shame Kit's piano doesn't. But in truth I probably haven't given it the attention it deserves.
Quote from: SonicMan46 on September 06, 2021, 07:35:48 AMAfter nearly 5 years, TTT! :laugh:
Currently looking at my 'Early Music' collection and am on William Byrd - presently if have 14 CDs (including multi-disc sets), shown below. I feel the KB & consort works are covered, along w/ the masses - but what seems to be missing are more 'vocal' pieces; also I'm curious about whether any recent 'piano' versions of these keyboard works have emerged recently. Any comments and suggestions appreciated. Thanks. Dave
Ashamed that I've posted nothing here for 5 years, too. Dave, you look to be well covered with the Masses courtesy of the Tallis Scholars. All of the Cardinall's Musick/Andrew Carwood discs are essential listening for Byrdians, but if you want to start with one, start at the end:
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0002/889/MI0002889507.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
The Great Service is an unmissable masterpiece, of which there are plenty of recordings (again, the Cardinalls are good), but this one is a bit unusual:
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0003/352/MI0003352358.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
- the only one, to my knowledge, performed at Byrd's written pitch rather than the standard minor 3rd higher.
A fine newcomer, which includes several previously unrecorded pieces, is:
(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/6b/k7/l35ue1sssk76b_600.jpg)
I would second Mandryka's recommendations of the
Adoramus te and
Songs of sundrie natures discs - although the latter actually includes very little from Byrd's publication of that name. (David Skinner tells me that the '1588' disc is planned as the first of 3 to cover Byrd's three English song-books, funding permitting.)
You could make room on your shelves for some of these by ditching Elizabeth Farr - lumpen, joyless and
slow - every timing way longer than Christopher Hogwood's
Nevell set, another bit of essential listening (although of course it's all covered in Davitt Moroney's box anyway).
Quote from: T. D. on September 06, 2021, 10:10:40 AM... the Cardinall's Musick on Hyperion. Was meaning to acquire more by that ensemble, but as noted above their "complete" series seems to have stalled out, and even [IMO] been rendered unlikely by a recording label change.
Fairly early in the project Andrew Carwood decided that "complete" was going to mean "complete Latin Sacred" - his opinion was, probably correctly, that the Cardinalls were not suited to the lighter stuff in the English songbooks. The switch from ASV to Hyperion was unfortunate, as it probably means that the whole set will never be available in a single box. We Byrdians did rejoice when the '1588' discs appeared, as it now looks as though the published English music will be recorded complete. That leaves the unpublished anthems and services for someone else to pick up...
Well, Mandryka provided some great suggestions but could find none on Spotify for a listen - but I did put together a playlist w/ 4 recordings shown below, left - about 4 1/2 hrs which I'll audition later. At the moment, I'm listening to Kit Armstrong (left reviews in one of my last posts for those interested) - he is indeed impressive - something I'd enjoy in a jazz piano bar - two quite prescient English composers from 400 years ago! 8) Dave
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-J6mMLLr/0/ad402c41/XL/ByrdVocal-XL.png) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91IG8sRGa%2BS._SL1500_.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on September 06, 2021, 11:44:17 AM
Well, Mandryka provided some great suggestions but could find none on Spotify for a listen - but I did put together a playlist w/ 4 recordings shown below, left - about 4 1/2 hrs which I'll audition later. At the moment, I'm listening to Kit Armstrong (left reviews in one of my last posts for those interested) - he is indeed impressive - something I'd enjoy in a jazz piano bar - two quite prescient English composers from 400 years ago! 8) Dave
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-J6mMLLr/0/ad402c41/XL/ByrdVocal-XL.png) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91IG8sRGa%2BS._SL1500_.jpg)
Here's another approach to Byrd on piano
https://www.youtube.com/v/PJHaOCZ5KH8&ab_channel=elwisw
Quote from: DaveF on September 06, 2021, 11:39:50 AM
...All of the Cardinall's Musick/Andrew Carwood discs are essential listening for Byrdians, ...
Thanks for the excellent info. [OT] Excuse the weak boomer joke, I can't help substituting
Byrdmaniax for the italicised (emphasis added) ....
Quote from: DaveF on September 06, 2021, 11:39:50 AM
Ashamed that I've posted nothing here for 5 years, too. Dave, you look to be well covered with the Masses courtesy of the Tallis Scholars. All of the Cardinall's Musick/Andrew Carwood discs are essential listening for Byrdians, but if you want to start with one, start at the end:
The Great Service is an unmissable masterpiece, of which there are plenty of recordings (again, the Cardinalls are good), but this one is a bit unusual:
A fine newcomer, which includes several previously unrecorded pieces, is:
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0002/889/MI0002889507.jpg?partner=allrovi.com) (http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0003/352/MI0003352358.jpg?partner=allrovi.com) (https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/6b/k7/l35ue1sssk76b_600.jpg)
I would second Mandryka's recommendations of the Adoramus te and Songs of sundrie natures discs - although the latter actually includes very little from Byrd's publication of that name. (David Skinner tells me that the '1588' disc is planned as the first of 3 to cover Byrd's three English song-books, funding permitting.)
You could make room on your shelves for some of these by ditching Elizabeth Farr - lumpen, joyless and slow - every timing way longer than Christopher Hogwood's Nevell set, another bit of essential listening (although of course it's all covered in Davitt Moroney's box anyway).
Fairly early in the project Andrew Carwood decided that "complete" was going to mean "complete Latin Sacred" - his opinion was, probably correctly, that the Cardinalls were not suited to the lighter stuff in the English songbooks. The switch from ASV to Hyperion was unfortunate, as it probably means that the whole set will never be available in a single box. We Byrdians did rejoice when the '1588' discs appeared, as it now looks as though the published English music will be recorded complete. That leaves the unpublished anthems and services for someone else to pick up...
Thanks
DaveF for your excellent comments above! I did listen to both Farr & Moroney yesterday and did enjoy him much more - and space is always an issue w/ me, so an option to consider. Also yesterday, I visited BRO (https://www.broinc.com/media?s=william+byrd) and perused their Byrd offerings - selected the 4 below for potential purchase but suspect the Chandos recording overlaps one or more of the Hyperion discs - for you
Byrdians, which of these are worth a buy and any to eliminate? Thanks. Dave :)
(https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/150dpi/034571179377.png) (https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/150dpi/034571176536.png) (https://www.chandos.net/artwork/CH0733.jpg) (https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/150dpi/034571177793.png)
I just ordered the Songs of Sundrie Natures disc with the Hilliard Ensemble on EMI. Excited to explore it. I have their recording of the masses which is also quite fine.
By the way, listening to Kit Armstrong talk about Byrd on the Gramophone podcast a few months ago was quite fascinating. Guy knows his stuff. I'm not particularly interested in hearing this music played on piano, but perhaps I ought to check out his new record. To contribute to the Byrd on piano discussion, Glenn Gould has a classic disc with some Byrd:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81mkKjQv%2BgL._SL500_.jpg)
Quite good as far as this stuff goes.
Quote from: vers la flamme on September 07, 2021, 01:33:23 PM
I just ordered the Songs of Sundrie Natures disc with the Hilliard Ensemble on EMI. Excited to explore it. I have their recording of the masses which is also quite fine.
By the way, listening to Kit Armstrong talk about Byrd on the Gramophone podcast a few months ago was quite fascinating. Guy knows his stuff. I'm not particularly interested in hearing this music played on piano, but perhaps I ought to check out his new record. To contribute to the Byrd on piano discussion, Glenn Gould has a classic disc with some Byrd:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81mkKjQv%2BgL._SL500_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91IG8sRGa%2BS._SL1500_.jpg)
Quite good as far as this stuff goes.
Thanks all for the comments on
Armstrong - I listened to the 2-CD package on Spotify yesterday (would like to do again w/ headphones on - have to keep the volume down if SWAMBO is around - :laugh:) - enjoyed his performance. Dave :)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on September 07, 2021, 07:43:39 AM
Also yesterday, I visited BRO (https://www.broinc.com/media?s=william+byrd) and perused their Byrd offerings - selected the 4 below for potential purchase but suspect the Chandos recording overlaps one or more of the Hyperion discs - for you Byrdians, which of these are worth a buy and any to eliminate? Thanks. Dave :)
(https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/150dpi/034571179377.png) (https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/150dpi/034571176536.png) (https://www.chandos.net/artwork/CH0733.jpg) (https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/150dpi/034571177793.png)
I don't know the Chandos, but from looking at the track listings there are only 3 pieces that also appear on the 2 Hyperion discs -
Hæc dies,
Miserere and
Domine salva nos. In any case, they will probably sound quite different in performances by an English college choir and a OVPP professional ensemble.
The Cardinalls' version of The Great Service is pretty good, I believe - it's transposed up the standard minor 3rd which, notwithstanding my advocacy of Simon Ravens' low-pitch version above, really does bring out the contrasts between low and high scoring in different passages. I say 'I believe' because, to my surprise, I find I don't have a copy of it. My reference recording is another Hyperion, the Westminster Abbey Choir with James O'Donnell - a bigger band altogether than the Cardinalls.
Quote from: DaveF on September 07, 2021, 02:20:46 PM
I don't know the Chandos, but from looking at the track listings there are only 3 pieces that also appear on the 2 Hyperion discs - Hæc dies, Miserere and Domine salva nos. In any case, they will probably sound quite different in performances by an English college choir and a OVPP professional ensemble.
The Cardinalls' version of The Great Service is pretty good, I believe - it's transposed up the standard minor 3rd which, notwithstanding my advocacy of Simon Ravens' low-pitch version above, really does bring out the contrasts between low and high scoring in different passages. I say 'I believe' because, to my surprise, I find I don't have a copy of it. My reference recording is another Hyperion, the Westminster Abbey Choir with James O'Donnell - a bigger band altogether than the Cardinalls.
Thanks
DaveF for the comments - I put in the order for all 4 CDs (just $8 each @ BRO) - I'll do some comparative listening and decide if I want to keep all or possibly discard one? Dave :)
I was forgetting one of the best, the Naxos CD with Rose Consort and Red Byrd and Tessa Bonner.
https://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.550604
Willm Bird a ffather of musick died the iiijth of July (1623) - sed vivet in æternum! Rest in peace & rise in glory, old fellow.
There were two articles in the New York Times about Byrd today. Here is a quote from one of the articles:
QuoteJames MacMillan
MacMillan — like Byrd, a committed Catholic — recently wrote "Ye Sacred Muses" for the King's Singers and Fretwork, the viol consort. The piece employs a text that Byrd used to commemorate Thomas Tallis.
I first got to know his music, and first sang his music, as a teenager at school in Scotland. Our high school choir was singing bits of his four-part Mass. As a fledgling composer, who was very interested in early counterpoint and getting to grips with how you should handle complexity, it was a wonderful lesson in how to make line against line work in a piece of music. His music is known among the singing community, the choral community, but maybe beyond that he's not as well known as he should be. Classical music audiences tend to forget about the pre-Baroque, and it's a pity because William Byrd is one of music history's great figures.
Another wonderful motet by Byrd is "Justorum animae," which is basically a commemoration or a celebration of martyrs. It's quite clear whom he means. He was seeing people being put to death because of their faith. I think Byrd and Tallis knew people who were arrested, and I think there were some composers for one reason or another during this time arrested. They must have thought that that could have been in the cards. The only comparable situation today is in dictatorships, behind what was the Iron Curtain — Shostakovich living with fear, with his bag packed, ready to go.
The Economist has run some decent articles on Byrd. Maybe paywalled, but perhaps can be dodged with incognito windows.
https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2018/12/18/sacred-choral-music-touches-on-deep-religious-moral-and-political-questions
https://www.economist.com/culture/2023/02/16/william-byrd-was-a-favourite-composer-of-elizabeth-i
Thanks, both. I'm on holiday (in Corsica) at the moment, using slightly unreliable WiFi, but will explore the links on my return, far too soon, to rainy Wales. Dodging paywalls via incognito browsing & VPNs sounds right up my street.
Something I missed in the riches of last years's Byrd bonanza:
(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/db/gg/zng00o7uoggdb_600.jpg)
Annoyingly (in retrospect), 3 months earlier, Brilliant had released this:
(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/6b/fe/vmf2ho1vcfe6b_600.jpg)
which is of course included in the first box - which also naturally includes all the pieces from the Fitzwilliam Book recorded by Belder in his complete survey, albeit in new performances. Plus all the pieces from other sources, including a scattering of extras that don't appear in Davitt Moroney's complete keyboard box. Annoyance is considerably offset by the price of the big box, £22 on Qobuz for the equivalent of 9 discs.