GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on January 15, 2010, 04:16:16 AM

Title: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on January 15, 2010, 04:16:16 AM
This Dutch* composer seems to be one of those figures who looms large in musical history, but seldom gets performed (at least anywhere I happen to be).

My only experience with him consists of some keyboard pieces played on a modern piano (!), including the semi-famous Variations on "Mein junges Leben hat ein End." Lately I've been eyeing a disc of his choral music on Harmonia Mundi.

I'd like to get some opinions on his oeuvre. Any fans out there?

* Note: I do not wish to get into a dispute about his "true" nationality  ;)
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Harry on January 15, 2010, 05:19:00 AM
Why don't you try this, and yes I am a admirer.
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: canninator on January 15, 2010, 05:41:49 AM
I really like Sweelinck but only really his keyboard/organ works both on period and modern instruments. His choral works don't do it for me. My impression (and admittedly this is only based on the Hyperion 2 disc set of complete sacred works) is that they are harmonically a little dull with not enough vertical variety or flavor to maintain any horizontal movement or interest. Having said that, I did come very close to buying the Glossa set Harry recommended as that is one label that has changed my mind about a number of composers.
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: sTisTi on January 15, 2010, 08:34:32 AM
For Organ and other Keyboard music, take a look at Herrick's 2-CD set on Hyperion:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41XC90NE32L._SS400_.jpg)

Very enjoyable music. AFAIK, Sweelinck is considered one of the fathers of the North-German organ school which culminated in masters like Buxtehude and Bruhns - and Bach, of course ;D
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on October 07, 2010, 10:43:10 PM
Listening update

I've been listening to this Naxos of Sweelinck's harpsichord music, played by Glen Wilson, a protege of Gustav Leonhardt:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41W6XdqV3FL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

A lot of this music is complex, and it will take a while to evaluate it. However, based on this and some other listening, I think Sweelinck will wind up high in my personal ranking of early keyboard composers. I find his output more compelling that what I've heard from Frescobaldi and Froberger, though maybe not quite as outstanding as Byrd. I'm not the best judge of harpsichords, but performance and recording quality seem pretty good. Recommended.
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: The new erato on October 08, 2010, 01:20:06 AM
Why don't you try this, and yes I am a admirer.
Well yes - but we're waiting for Glossa to publish subsequent volumes, available to subscribers in the Netherlands, but not generally, I've been given to undrstand. 
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Que on June 02, 2011, 11:36:35 PM
i'm interested in maybe getting one or two sweenlick cd's, not a humungous set like yours above, just some good selection of the man's stuff. i don't remember hearing his music, but i know he was a very significant organist/composer of the time, and had much bearing on what guys did later in this area. if you can recommend me something here (are the naxos albums fairly good?), reply to me on this thread, or better still send me a short pm if you can. i'd appreciate your input, this guy has been on my "backburner" for years. yes, you are exactly right, the guy is pretty obscure, even organists i've mentioned his name to, either people i know, or after organ recitals here in sydney, they only seem to know of him, they are not familiar with the actual music in even say 15 per cent "as you are. it's a pity, because from what i've read, the guy was a huge figure in the organ realm, beyond the confines of his town/country/geographical base...

Sid, I've taken you to the Sweelinck thread with thanks to Velimir for bringing it to my attention.

As for Sweelinck, being a more early organ composer his music is more on the austere side than later exuberant music of the high Baroque. But I am myself pleasantly surprised in how innovating, inventive and engaging it is. An interesting and successful mix of styles. I recall you mentioning being familiar with organ music by F. Couperin, so I think you're good on this. :)

Being a new kid on this block myself, I happily pass the request for suggestions for Sweelinck keyboard music on to the real experts! I'm sure Premont and Marc et al can come up with useful suggestions. :)

But I could not help myself but take a peek at the offerings at jpc, thinking what issues I would investigate if I was looking for a nice sampling... 8) A tricky game, so take anything I say from here with a pinch of salt... $:)
I saw some interesting issues: Harald Vogel, I've dubbed him the "professor at the organ", has recently started a project to do a complete Sweelinck series. I found him too academic in Buxtehude, but Sweelinck might be just the thing for him. Still, a new and expensive issue. The cheap reissue of Gustav Leonhardt's Sweelinck recital looks more like it. :) I listened to the samples and they sound beautiful, if you can live with a 1971 recording. For the harpsichord repertoire my eye fell on Glen Wilson's recording on Naxos. I hold Wilson is very high esteem and Sweelinck might suit him (I am a strong believer in the "right" composer-performer combinations) Well, judging from the samples I might buy that one myself as an extra - sounds that good.

A mixed recital with organ music from the period might also be an option, I'm sure there will be some suggestions on that too.

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0886975763221.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0747313089475.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Sid on June 03, 2011, 02:39:30 AM
@ que -

thanks for those two recommendations. as i said, i like organ music a lot. i like going to organ recitals here in sydney. most of them are dirt cheap, played by our own expert organ scholars, as well as international visitors. it's been a good way to get my head around this wonderfully rich area. as i also mentioned, my favourites are the french organ composers. i have also enjoyed all others i've heard to some level, but i'm only beginning to appreciate this area in a more involved way. the two organ masses of couperin have been a pure joy.

i like what you say about the "austerity" of sweenlick's sound or philosophy. i like the "less is more" approach of many composers, from palestrina to charles wood to frank martin, at least thinking of their choral works. i'm definitely not welded on to the big "romantic" sound or whatever, but i realise that even that is a meaningless stereotype, there was much variety in the romantic era (i don't like these kinds of empty stylistic labels, but that's another story entirely).

you've tapped into my general "vibe" and read between the lines of my post which you posted above. yes, i'm a generalist. i would be very interested in hearing mr leonhardt playing organ, i haven't heard him before play this instrument. i'm just getting into some of the well tempered clavier on harpsichord by j.s. bach. the performance is by wanda landowska, by no means historically accurate in the current sense, but at least the woman has opened up both a composer and instrument which to me previously sounded less accessible than other things that have come more easily to me. i have written both the recordings you recommended in my notepad, and i will come to order them when i have the opportunity. i also thank harry for his earlier post of sweenlick's vocal works, which might be worth looking into (or something similar) as this is the niche i am getting into with greater empathy and understanding nowadays...
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Marc on June 03, 2011, 03:47:47 AM
Man!
I thought I had some nice advice!
Only 3 weeks ago I got this boxset from jpc.de for a laughable price (around € 20,--), and now it's sold out! :(

(http://i54.tinypic.com/20js3nl.jpg)

Here's the item at Amazon.com:

http://www.amazon.com/Sweelinck-Keyboard-Works-Winsemius/dp/B000065618/

Here at Amazon.de (still 'reasonably priced'):

http://www.amazon.de/Sweelinck-Keyboard-Works-Winsemius/dp/B000065618/

(Dunno how 'friendly' import taxes are from Europe to Australia ....)

I haven't heard all of it yet, but so far I'm very very happy with this purchase.

About mr. Leonhardt: he's more 'in love' with the harpsichord than with the organ, as he has stated in some interviews. But I've had the pleasure of hearing him once in a live concert on a Schnitger/Hinsz organ (Pelstergasthuiskerk, Groningen, NL), playing 17th century music. That was great!

(http://i56.tinypic.com/14indyc.jpg)
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: (: premont :) on June 05, 2011, 06:04:30 AM
I can fully second the recommendations from  ~Que~  and Marc above concerning the 9 CD "complete" Dutch Sweelinck box, which offers a nice survey played on important historical organs by a group of authoritative organists.

The Leonhardt CD (DHM) and the Wilson CD (Naxos) mentioned above are valuable additions to the box, or representative examples of Sweelincks keyboard music, if you do not want the complete box.

Ton Koopman has made a Sweelinck integral for Philips (four CD´s - and of course not equally complete as the Dutch box). I think that his playing is relative strict in this set, and an interesting feature is, that a little less than one third of it is played on the Compenius organ in Frederiksborg Slot, DK.

But there are some other single CDs I consider mandatory (I do not know about the aviability, since I acquired them some years ago, but it seems as if JPC lists most of them).

1)  Sweelinck: Oevres pour le clavier, Noelle Spieth harpsichord (Solstice)

2)  Sweelinck: Keyboard works, Anneke Uittenbosch (also a Leonhardt pupil) harpsichord and organ (Globe)

3)  Sweelinck: "Ballo dek Granduca" Serge Schoonbroodt on a meantone tuned organ (renaissance organ -1600, restored 1998- in  L´Eglise Saint-Jacques, Liège).

Later (secondary choices) one may consider the single CD´s of  James David Christie (Naxos), Siegbert Rampe (MDG) and Peter Ella clavichord! (Hungaroton).

I do not know the first CD in Harald Vogels new projected integral, nor the CD by Hans Davisson  (Intim Musik). Vogel is on my wishlist.

The only Sweelinck CD (of the many I know) I would disrecommend, is Masaaki Suzuki´s on BIS.  It is stiff, uncharming and played on an uninteresting modern Japanese neo-baroque organ.

Edit:
I forgot the twoofer by Christopher Herrick, which is in my listening pile at the moment.
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Marc on June 08, 2011, 10:16:34 AM
[....]
The cheap reissue of Gustav Leonhardt's Sweelinck recital looks more like it. :) I listened to the samples and they sound beautiful, if you can live with a 1971 recording.
[....]

(http://i54.tinypic.com/rbi04h.jpg)

Listening to Da pacem, Domine, in diebus nostris (Give us, peace, o Lord, in our days) and yes, I really believe that peace is possible .... in music.

Somehow Leonhardt sounds more convincing to me in early baroque organ works than he does in Bach.

Good recording sound of a beautiful Metzler organ, btw.
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Que on June 08, 2011, 10:22:35 AM
Listening to Da pacem, Domine, in diebus nostris (Give us, peace, o Lord, in our days) and yes, I really believe that peace is possible .... in music.

Somehow Leonhardt sounds more convincing to me in early baroque organ works than he does in Bach.

Good recording sound of a beautiful Metzler organ, btw.

I fully agree with your observations! :)

Pity that Sid left - I don't know if he got a chance to read up on this topic... :-\

Q
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Marc on June 08, 2011, 10:27:12 AM
[....]
Pity that Sid left - I don't know if he got a chance to read up on this topic... :-\

Yeah, did not notice that until after my I had sent my contribution. So I started to modify my message, then saw that you already had quoted ....  :-\ .... and changed it back again.

Maybe Sid will keep on lurking in a more modest way. Sometimes boards like these can take too much of one's time.

About the recording sound: here and there are a few minor drop-outs audible, but it doesn't spoil my evening.
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Antoine Marchand on June 08, 2011, 11:49:34 AM
The only Sweelinck CD (of the many I know) I would disrecommend, is Masaaki Suzuki´s on BIS.  It is stiff, uncharming and played on an uninteresting modern Japanese neo-baroque organ.

Thanks Suzuki Masaaki! It's a slight financial relief. Something is better than nothing. Now I just need some extra euros to get the recommended recordings.   ;D 
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Purusha on January 05, 2014, 05:14:10 AM
Sorry to revive this old thread like this, but i am currently in the process of acquiring the complete vocal and keyboard works of Sweelinck, but i am unable to find any complete list of his music that i can use to sort his output. I find this strange because even minor composers have detailed work lists on wikipedia and other sites, but not for Sweelinck. I know for instance that his works are cataloged using "SwWV" numbers but there's no mention of them in my complete set of his keyboard works, despite the voluminous liner notes.

I wonder if any of you knowledgeable folks knows anything about this.
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on July 27, 2017, 08:09:24 PM
I have become enamored with this set of Sweelinck's complete keyboard music. I have never heard another composer quite like him, and find it very enjoyable to become lost in the enormous complexity of the compositions, and the incredible beauty and sonority of these instruments.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/317KT7VD8HL.jpg)


I just finished the 12 CD Frescobaldi set (Loreggian, Vartolo et al), and it seems their styles are superficially similar--both, to a large degree representative of stylus fantasticus, I suppose. However, honestly, Frescobaldi bored me to tears! Their temperments (no pun intended) seem quite opposed, with Sweelinck more serious and contemplative--my take anyway.

In any case, I am now also interested in exploring other recordings of the keyboard works (yes, I have the Glenn Gould, which I love) and, especially the choral and other works.

Fire away. 
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Mandryka on July 28, 2017, 01:25:35 AM
Paul van Nevel recorded a CD of choral music with the Netherlands Chamber Choir which I remember enjoying. It's part of a set from NM which would complement your big box of keyboard music.  If you enjoyed Sweelinck maybe try Peter Philips.
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Mandryka on July 28, 2017, 08:25:37 AM
I have become enamored with this set of Sweelinck's complete keyboard music. I have never heard another composer quite like him, and find it very enjoyable to become lost in the enormous complexity of the compositions, and the incredible beauty and sonority of these instruments.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/317KT7VD8HL.jpg)


I just finished the 12 CD Frescobaldi set (Loreggian, Vartolo et al), and it seems their styles are superficially similar--both, to a large degree representative of stylus fantasticus, I suppose. However, honestly, Frescobaldi bored me to tears! Their temperments (no pun intended) seem quite opposed, with Sweelinck more serious and contemplative--my take anyway.

In any case, I am now also interested in exploring other recordings of the keyboard works (yes, I have the Glenn Gould, which I love) and, especially the choral and other works.

Fire away.

One question is whether it's really worth having any other instrumental recordings, apart from the NM box. I'd say the big thing that's missing from the NM is clavichord, and so it may well be worth considering buying Peter Ella's recording, and/or Siegbert Rampe's.
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on July 28, 2017, 10:36:30 AM
Thanks. Was the clavichord music specifically written for that instrument and not included in the NM set, or, is this music included, but played on harpsichord? 

The Paul Van Nevel set looks good, but $120 for a three CD set! (used!!)  :o
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: kishnevi on July 28, 2017, 10:46:08 AM
I suppose the other alternative is


played on a mix of harpsichords, organs and virginals, but no clavichords, and a mix of players.  IIRC Leonhardt's recording was included as a sort of tribute to him.   I am NOT actually recommending this box: I've listened to it, but not been completely sold on it.  I don't know if the fault was with Sweelinck, with the performances, or with me.
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on July 28, 2017, 10:53:53 AM
Thanks, another interesting recommendation.

How is it that I can enjoy Sweelinck's music so much, yet be completely uninspired by Frescobaldi? I listened to every single minute of that 12 CD set, but found very little I ever want to return to again...
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Mandryka on July 28, 2017, 11:14:19 AM
Why don't you buy this and tell me whether it's any good? I think Eichelberger is pretty good in other things, including that NM set you have

(http://c3.cduniverse.ws/resized/250x500/music/619/1256619.jpg)

Surely the NM choral set is available as a download?

Sweelinck didn't specify clavichord or harpsichord as far as I know, you can use whatever you have at your disposal.

Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Mandryka on July 28, 2017, 10:13:59 PM
I listened to Siegbert Rampe playing the Dowland/Sweelinck pavan last night, on a clavichord, I think that this track is itself sufficient reason for having the set.
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Que on July 28, 2017, 11:28:44 PM
Thanks, another interesting recommendation.

How is it that I can enjoy Sweelinck's music so much, yet be completely uninspired by Frescobaldi? I listened to every single minute of that 12 CD set, but found very little I ever want to return to again...

If you're referring to the set on Tactus with Vartolo? I hated that set so much, that I got rid of it.....  ::)
Had much to do with Vartolo's antiquated and liveless playing. The Lorregian set on Brilliant is significantly better, but not quite cutting it either.
Try recordings by Rinaldo Alessandrini on ARCANA of Andrea Marcon on DIVOX, or the idiosyncratic Enrico Baiano. Scott Ross' Toccatas recording is interesting as well.

As to by countyman Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck: I wouldn't waste my time hunting down more keyboard recordings...unless you're interested in a particular performer.
The superb NM Classics is pretty definitive as it is...and offers a variety of performers.

Sweelinck's other - vocal - music is orientated towards both Italian and French (Huguenot) influences.
Subdued and sober, but highly complex and intrinsicate under the surface. It's requires a lot if focus and dedication to get into the music.
But highly rewarding as well. Glossa's Sweelinck series offer definitive interpretations IMO:



Now...as to similar keyboard music to explore, there are two possible directions to go IMO.
Firstly English Renaissance keyboard music. First suggestions would (obviously) be to start at the top with the William Byrd set by Davitt Moroney:



A second avenue would be to trace Sweelinck's influence down to several later German composers.
Notably Heinrich Scheidemann and Matthias Weckmann.

Q
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Mandryka on July 29, 2017, 06:39:55 AM
Try recordings by Rinaldo Alessandrini on ARCANA of Andrea Marcon on DIVOX, or the idiosyncratic Enrico Baiano. Scott Ross' Toccatas recording is interesting as well.



One problem with Frescobaldi is that there are very few recordings of Bk 2 of the toccatas, which are important, maybe the greater of the two books. 
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on July 29, 2017, 06:43:07 AM
I just finished the 12 CD Frescobaldi set (Loreggian, Vartolo et al), and it seems their styles are superficially similar--both, to a large degree representative of stylus fantasticus, I suppose. However, honestly, Frescobaldi bored me to tears! Their temperments (no pun intended) seem quite opposed, with Sweelinck more serious and contemplative--my take anyway.

Fire away.

Sweelinck and Byrd are my favorites among early keyboard composers. While I won't say Frescobaldi bores me - his music is too quirky and mercurial for that - I can't listen to much of it at a time, as I find it rather hard to follow. I guess I don't really understand his idiom well enough.
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Mandryka on July 29, 2017, 06:45:42 AM

Sweelinck's other - vocal - music is orientated towards both Italian and French (Huguenot) influences.
Subdued and sober, but highly complex and intrinsicate under the surface. It's requires a lot if focus and dedication to get into the music.

It would be interesting to know who widely this experience is shared.
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Marc on July 29, 2017, 10:01:25 AM
[...]
3)  Sweelinck: "Ballo de[l] Granduca" Serge Schoonbroodt on a meantone tuned organ (renaissance organ -1600, restored 1998- in  L´Eglise Saint-Jacques, Liège).
[...]

Interesting:

https://www.aeolus-music.com/ae_en/All-Discs/AE10201-Sweelinck-Jan-Pieterszoon-Ballo-del-Granduca
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on July 29, 2017, 11:42:12 AM
If you're referring to the set on Tactus with Vartolo? I hated that set so much, that I got rid of it.....  ::)
Had much to do with Vartolo's antiquated and liveless playing. The Lorregian set on Brilliant is significantly better, but not quite cutting it either.
Try recordings by Rinaldo Alessandrini on ARCANA of Andrea Marcon on DIVOX, or the idiosyncratic Enrico Baiano. Scott Ross' Toccatas recording is interesting as well.

As to by countyman Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck: I wouldn't waste my time hunting down more keyboard recordings...unless you're interested in a particular performer.
The superb NM Classics is pretty definitive as it is...and offers a variety of performers.

Sweelinck's other - vocal - music is orientated towards both Italian and French (Huguenot) influences.
Subdued and sober, but highly complex and intrinsicate under the surface. It's requires a lot if focus and dedication to get into the music.
But highly rewarding as well. Glossa's Sweelinck series offer definitive interpretations IMO:



Now...as to similar keyboard music to explore, there are two possible directions to go IMO.
Firstly English Renaissance keyboard music. First suggestions would (obviously) be to start at the top with the William Byrd set by Davitt Moroney:



A second avenue would be to trace Sweelinck's influence down to several later German composers.
Notably Heinrich Scheidemann and Matthias Weckmann.

Q

Hi, Yes the Tactus set. I listened to every minute of it and, as I mentioned, it bored me to tears. The instruments were mostly quite beautiful, but it just seemed the music consisted of pretty ornamentations and virtuosic displays without any compelling themes, counterpoint, or interesting harmonies. I don't think it is a matter of not liking this period, as I've been listening to a lot of Palestrina lately also and enjoy it a great deal.

I will look into these other recommendations (Thanks) and the Byrd as well. I was just about to post a thread about Byrd, as I have very little of his music and might be looking to get a good comprehensive boxed set is such a thing exists.

Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on July 29, 2017, 11:46:48 AM
It would be interesting to know who widely this experience is shared.

I'm not sure how you would define focus and dedication--reading and study? following scores? long, uninterrupted listening sessions? I have not done much of the first two with Sweelinck, and I am not in the habit of reading scores unless it is something I am looking to play myself on the piano. For me, Sweelinck's music is just naturally enjoyable with little effort required. As I alluded to above, I find it an immersive experience being overwhelmed by the complexity and beauty of the music, and also the wonderful sound of these instruments.

Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Mandryka on July 29, 2017, 12:36:06 PM
Interesting:

https://www.aeolus-music.com/ae_en/All-Discs/AE10201-Sweelinck-Jan-Pieterszoon-Ballo-del-Granduca

He's a real speed demon.
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Mandryka on July 29, 2017, 09:01:01 PM
Now...as to similar keyboard music to explore, there are two possible directions to go IMO.
Firstly English Renaissance keyboard music. First suggestions would (obviously) be to start at the top with . . . William Byrd

I don't think there's much evidence that either Byrd was influenced by Sweelinck or vice versa, apart from Engelsche Fortuyne. I could be wrong about this, though I just noticed that Bernard Winsemius includes no Byrd in his series on Sweelinck's Sources and Influences. There's an easy going hummable tunefulness to some of Sweelinck's keyboard works which I hear very much in Peter Philips, in fact I think that aspect of the music is stronger in Phillips.

I thought a bit more seriously about where someone who enjoys Sweelinck should go next, as it were. I now think that a compilation of music from the period and in the style is the best next step, rather than buying a lot of Philips or Byrd or whatever, then you get a quick taste of a whole lot of music and can decide for yourself what intrigues. Maybe the best place is in the set of four CDs by Bernard Winsemius I mentioned above, but they may have become very hard to find, I don't know. Alternatively the CD I recommend is called "War and Peace" by Bob van Asperen, which may well be one his best recitals in record, at least of those widely disseminated

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/123/MI0001123849.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Que on July 29, 2017, 10:57:18 PM
I don't think there's much evidence that either Byrd was influenced by Sweelinck or vice versa, apart from Engelsche Fortuyne. I could be wrong about this, though I just noticed that Bernard Winsemius includes no Byrd in his series on Sweelinck's Sources and Influences. There's an easy going hummable tunefulness to some of Sweelinck's keyboard works which I hear very much in Peter Philips, in fact I think that aspect of the music is stronger in Phillips.

No evidence of direct influence, perhaps...
But if even Pieter Dirksen finds the similarities between the two composers striking, I can't be all that off the mark with my assessment it is similar music.  :)

His essay on the topic: http://www.academia.edu/8328531/Byrd_and_Sweelinck_Some_Cursory_Notes

Q
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Marc on July 29, 2017, 11:50:02 PM
He's a real speed demon.

I like the disc, but the 'interesting' fact to me is that it is available for only € 10,--.
On Amazon et al, the issue seemed to be OOP for quite some time.

So, to anyone who is interested, I would say: grab the opportunity! :)
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Que on July 29, 2017, 11:57:40 PM
I like the disc, but the 'interesting' fact to me is that it is available for only € 10,--.
On Amazon et al, the issue seemed to be OOP for quite some time.

So, to anyone who is interested, I would say: grab the opportunity! :)

Thanks! :)
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Mandryka on July 30, 2017, 12:58:46 AM
I like the disc, but the 'interesting' fact to me is that it is available for only € 10,--.
On Amazon et al, the issue seemed to be OOP for quite some time.

So, to anyone who is interested, I would say: grab the opportunity! :)

I'm glad I have it, and it's very different from NM, but I just think it's a shame that it's not better recorded, all the reverb isn't good especially with someone who's playing so quickly. But, you know, he transmits energy and enthusiasm, and the interpretations are bold compared with mainstream NM style Sweelinck, and that's nice.

I'm listening as I type to him playing the Dowland/Sweelinck pavan, and it is really astonishing and irreverent. Not much by way of tears there . . . He's also interesting in the A minor ricercar, which is my favourite bit of music by Sweelinck.

I heard him play in Bordeaux. . .
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Marc on July 30, 2017, 01:57:15 AM
I'm glad I have it, and it's very different from NM, but I just think it's a shame that it's not better recorded, all the reverb isn't good especially with someone who's playing so quickly. But, you know, he transmits energy and enthusiasm, and the interpretations are bold compared with mainstream NM style Sweelinck, and that's nice.

I'm listening as I type to him playing the Dowland/Sweelinck pavan, and it is really astonishing and irreverent. Not much by way of tears there . . . He's also interesting in the A minor ricercar, which is my favourite bit of music by Sweelinck.
[...]

Funny, because, when organ music is played in a church with large acoustics and more reverb, I prefer a faster tempo with apt phrasing and not that much legato, to give the reverb a lesser chance to make the sound diffuse.
So far, this has been my listening experience, both in live concerts and at my 'hifi' home. Hence I did not have any problems with this specific recording.

The Ricercar is indeed a great piece... I should listen to JPS more often. ;)

Btw, so far I have not checked Schoonbroodt's own website, because, according to my (Norton) internet safety control, his site is 'probably hacked'. :blank:
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Florestan on July 30, 2017, 02:22:26 AM
it just seemed the music consisted of pretty ornamentations and virtuosic displays without any compelling themes, counterpoint, or interesting harmonies.

I recently listened to this:

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/092/MI0001092026.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

and your description fits in it to a tee, not to mention the mostly slow tempi which result in a lifeless and boring listening experience. Absolutely the same goes for this:

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSNFwUenAUlSV38X4AyLlcNkQIkAWjZA82FHRP6CgK8D7WPbjtB3g)

Nothing at all to catch my attention, not even some fleeting moments. I guess Italian Renaissance keyboard music is simply not for me.
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Mandryka on July 30, 2017, 03:35:01 AM
I recently listened to this:

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/092/MI0001092026.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

and your description fits in it to a tee, not to mention the mostly slow tempi which result in a lifeless and boring listening experience. Absolutely the same goes for this:

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSNFwUenAUlSV38X4AyLlcNkQIkAWjZA82FHRP6CgK8D7WPbjtB3g)

Nothing at all to catch my attention, not even some fleeting moments. I guess Italian Renaissance keyboard music is simply not for me.

I remember a discussion here a few years ago with Premont, Marc and me where I said much the same sort of thing about Italian keyboard music, renaissance and baroque for me, though I've always been able to appreciate Frescobaldi. Here's my latest infatuation in Italian music though, the Storace Patoralle, which seems to me to anticipate Steve Reich

http://youtube.com/v/XToncb7-1gs
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Florestan on July 30, 2017, 07:38:41 AM
I'd said it before and I reiterate it now: afaIc, no melody, no music. I guess I should really stick with Late Baroque, Classical and Romantic --- and that's where I actually do stick ;D
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Mandryka on July 30, 2017, 08:18:49 AM
I'd said it before and I reiterate it now: afaIc, no melody, no music. I guess I should really stick with Late Baroque, Classical and Romantic --- and that's where I actually do stick ;D

Yes but let's get back to Sweelinck, because I bet that one reason that XB-70 could enjoy his stuff is that in some things sweet melody is the hook, same with Peter Philips, less so with Byrd. I think you should listen to some Sweelinck and Philips when you're next in the mood.
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Florestan on July 30, 2017, 08:32:51 AM
Yes but let's get back to Sweelinck,

By all means, sorry for the disruption!
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Mandryka on September 12, 2017, 11:32:27 AM
Funny, because, when organ music is played in a church with large acoustics and more reverb, I prefer a faster tempo with apt phrasing and not that much legato, to give the reverb a lesser chance to make the sound diffuse.
So far, this has been my listening experience, both in live concerts and at my 'hifi' home. Hence I did not have any problems with this specific recording.

The Ricercar is indeed a great piece... I should listen to JPS more often. ;)

Btw, so far I have not checked Schoonbroodt's own website, because, according to my (Norton) internet safety control, his site is 'probably hacked'. :blank:

I listened today to Schoonbroodt playing the A minor ricercar SwVW 280. It is fabulous really, really off the rails, like it's going to explode with intense energy. . And as if to confound us all, he takes longer than anyone else I know - though it still appears fast. It just is such exciting and committed playing it's irrsistable. It's incredible how sometimes these ricercars - which are just basically imitation really - can sometimes take off like that, I mean you wouldn't think that 12 minutes of imitation could sound so wild.
Title: This is one heck of a great recording mandatory folks!
Post by: deprofundis on April 09, 2020, 08:43:46 AM
Thanks to Traverso I purchased Sweelinck complete Organ and Harpsicord, it's fantastic , dear Traverso whom subject me this on currently listening wow almost 7 hours of Sweelinck and I absolutly love his Keyboard works, no mater if it's organ or harpiscord this is top-notch release.

Did someone purchased it and like it as I , great Job Brilliant Classical.
Title: Re: This is one heck of a great recording mandatory folks!
Post by: vers la flamme on April 09, 2020, 09:22:23 AM
Thanks to Traverso I purchased Sweelinck complete Organ and Harpsicord, it's fantastic , dear Traverso whom subject me this on currently listening wow almost 7 hours of Sweelinck and I absolutly love his Keyboard works, no mater if it's organ or harpiscord this is top-notch release.

Did someone purchased it and like it as I , great Job Brilliant Classical.

Wow, that looks like an excellent deal. I can't say I know anything about Sweelinck, but I have been meaning to check out his music for some time. I'll be considering this as a point of entry.
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: bioluminescentsquid on October 16, 2021, 12:46:47 AM
Happy Sweelinck 400th death day everyone!
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: milk on October 16, 2021, 09:01:20 AM
I remember a discussion here a few years ago with Premont, Marc and me where I said much the same sort of thing about Italian keyboard music, renaissance and baroque for me, though I've always been able to appreciate Frescobaldi. Here's my latest infatuation in Italian music though, the Storace Patoralle, which seems to me to anticipate Steve Reich

http://youtube.com/v/XToncb7-1gs
Sorry, what is Storace Patoralle? 
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Mandryka on October 16, 2021, 01:26:52 PM
Fabio Bonizzoni’s recording of the Storace Pastorale.
Title: Re: Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck
Post by: Que on October 16, 2021, 11:09:43 PM
Happy Sweelinck 400th death day everyone!

Such an amazing composer that I discovered rather late. And from the Netherlands... 8)

Luckily the celebratory Sweelinck Edition (Glossa) does him full justice.