Bruckner's Abbey

[LKB]

A very enthusiastic fan (some might consider him too enthusiastic) has placed this on YouTube:

I saw that, and have been wondering whether it's worth checking out. Since I'm always in the market for anything which will help me stay awake at work, I'll probably sit through it tonight...  or try to. 

[Daverz]

I still think Jochum is the greatest Bruckner interpreter but is let down by his choice of versions. 

The obsession with recording every version was not a thing back then.  I'm glad Jochum didn't get bogged down with that modern indulgence.

Also, the 1877 version of the 3rd is rarer on record, so obviously superior because of its exclusivity.

[lunar22]

of course in Jochum's day, the relatively recent editions were not known so I can hardly blame him. Nevertheless, there was often a choice between Novak and Haas for instance and if my memory serves me correctly, Jochum did tend to the shortest (i.e most butchered) versions. But I don't want to start a new discussion about the merits of respective editions-- there have been plenty of those and they can get rather heated (for instance Hurwitz has very strong opinions on the matter).

[calyptorhynchus]

- there have been plenty of those and they can get rather heated (for instance Hurwitz has very strong opinions on the matter).

I can guess which side he comes down on 

[Cato]

Today I discovered that, when my niece - at c. age 15, ten years ago - first heard Bruckner's Symphony IX as played by the Los Angeles Philharmonic under Gustavo Dudamel, she was sobbing during the last minutes of the Adagio.

"She had the same reaction, when she heard Mahler's Resurrection Symphony," said my brother.

"I just have highly emotional reactions to those composers!" said my niece.   

Completely comprehensible!   

[LKB]

Today I discovered that, when my niece - at c. age 15, ten years ago - first heard Bruckner's Symphony IX as played by the Los Angeles Philharmonic under Gustavo Dudamel, she was sobbing during the last minutes of the Adagio.

"She had the same reaction, when she heard Mahler's Resurrection Symphony," said my brother.

"I just have highly emotional reactions to those composers!" said my niece. 

Completely comprehensible! 

I was obsessing over Bach, Beethoven and Brahms at fifteen, both Bruckner and Mahler were still a couple of years away. On that account l envy your niece, just a bit. 

[Cato]

I was obsessing over Bach, Beethoven and Brahms at fifteen, both Bruckner and Mahler were still a couple of years away. On that account I envy your niece, just a bit. 

Thanks to the Music Department of our public library (in Dayton, here in Ohio, home of The Wright Brothers), I had been going through the music of Bach and Beethoven, Mozart and a few others with study scores around age 11 or so, and then hopped onto The Bruckner Train, when they acquired the score of the Seventh Symphony and started offering the DGG Eugen Jochum set of symphonies as they appeared in the early 1960's.

I also read Gradus ad Parnassum by Johann Fux (pronounced "Foox," i.e. German for "fox"     ) and other such books on harmony (e.g. Walter Piston's) and counterpoint.

Yes, I suppose I was an autodidact at an early age, which term I did not know.  Only one time did anyone question me about what I was listening to and reading: a lady librarian once looked at me quizzically and asked: "Do you understand all this stuff?" 

I recall being a little miffed, but stayed polite: "Yes, I believe I do."  😇

[Cato]

Today I revisited...

"Die Sechste ist die Keckste," (The Sixth is the sassiest) said Bruckner.


Certainly that might apply to the outer movements and the Scherzo, but not to the marvelous Adagio, which has always been near or at the top of my favorite slow movements.

The movement's Funeral March, and its transformation at the end into a hesitant, but irresistible, ascension of peacefulness, have always impressed me.

Musical perfection!

[Cato]

Today I revisited...

"Die Sechste ist die Keckste," (The Sixth is the sassiest) said Bruckner.


Certainly that might apply to the outer movements and the Scherzo, but not to the marvelous Adagio, which has always been near or at the top of my favorite slow movements.

The movement's Funeral March, and its transformation at the end into a hesitant, but irresistible, ascension of peacefulness, have always impressed me.

Musical perfection!

I have offered this in earlier years.


Some years ago, I inserted Bruckner's Sixth Symphony into a scene in a novel, a novel about children,  but not necessarily for children.

In the scene, Tom Schranker, an 8th-Grade organist, is playing the organ at a Catholic Church for the funeral of a young child killed in a bicycle accident in the middle of the summer.  He has decided that the Funeral March from Bruckner's Sixth Symphony would be perfect as a post-Holy Communion meditation.

"...a melody from Tom's musical memory began playing, as he read the obituary, which mentioned Augie's pride in being an altar boy at St. Mary's and his joy in playing baseball.  The melody was a somber funeral march, complete with muffled drumbeats.  The important thing, however, was that the second part of the march rose somewhat, and seemed to aspire toward hope, or at least to counterbalance the tragedy of the opening notes.  It was from the Sixth Symphony of Anton Bruckner, from the Adagio, the second movement.  But Tom also remembered that Bruckner brings this theme back toward the end of the movement, in a shortened form, and the little tragic funeral march becomes involved in a short brass chorale that softens the lament, which then leads to a dialogue in the strings, an up-and-down debate, with the upwardness of the music winning gently at the end, the two flutes and a single clarinet slowly, benignly, smilingly voicing their opinion that all is well, that the turmoil and sadness heard earlier have been dissolved into nothingness...."

 

[lunar22]

Today I revisited...

"Die Sechste ist die Keckste," (The Sixth is the sassiest) said Bruckner.


Certainly that might apply to the outer movements and the Scherzo, but not to the marvelous Adagio, which has always been near or at the top of my favorite slow movements.

The movement's Funeral March, and its transformation at the end into a hesitant, but irresistible, ascension of peacefulness, have always impressed me.

Musical perfection!

yes, the Jochum Dresden recording in particular is perhaps the greatest of a slow movement which is unsurpassed in the entire symphonic literature.  I can never decide whether 6 or 9 is my favourite Bruckner symphony (and that means -- with the exception of Suk's Asrael, my favourite by any composer)

[Cato]

yes, the Jochum Dresden recording in particular is perhaps the greatest of a slow movement which is unsurpassed in the entire symphonic literature.  I can never decide whether 6 or 9 is my favourite Bruckner symphony (and that means -- with the exception of Suk's Asrael, my favourite by any composer)

Vielen Dank dafuer!


Here is a later scene from my novel mentioned above: this takes place during the Requiem.  The young organist has his adaptation of the Bruckner Sixth Symphony excerpt ready to go:

"...So then Tom began to play the Bruckner excerpt.  The first two bars seemed more tragic than in practice, and he had to ignore an impulse to cut the repetition of the opening four-bar theme which he had interpolated into the piece.  The next two bars rose and evoked more of a cry of anguish than any hope!  What was happening?  Those two bars were supposed to argue with the first ones, not commiserate!  When the repetition came, Tom quickly changed the stops and made the music softer.  That was better.

    Now a short dialogue in the upper register ensued, followed by a chorale that gave a distant angelicity to the opening.  Then an upward struggle with sixteenth notes, ending in a huge, slow, climactic descent in eighth and quarter notes.  But this was no descent into hopelessness, rather it was an affirmation of a foundation and of a connection between heaven and earth, a Jacob's Ladder being extended downward to all those who had the faith to take the first step.  And then the farewell most serene, the flute-and-clarinet melody slowly hovering on high, waving good-bye, as it faded away into the blissful otherworld.

 

[lordlance]

Continuing with my recs of great Bruckner performances is the one by Blomstedt with LGO:



I actually enjoyed the slow movement as opposed to my general indifference as with most Bruckner symphonies. Unfortunately, the coda of the finale seems like a bit of a letdown but this performance is the first time I can see why Blomstedt is considered a great conductor. 

Side-note: Is the minute of silence at the end of the second movement the performers taking a break or is the writing almost inaudible?

[Cato]

Continuing with my recs of great Bruckner performances is the one by Blomstedt with LGO:



I actually enjoyed the slow movement as opposed to my general indifference as with most Bruckner symphonies. Unfortunately, the coda of the finale seems like a bit of a letdown but this performance is the first time I can see why Blomstedt is considered a great conductor.

Side-note: Is the minute of silence at the end of the second movement the performers taking a break or is the writing almost inaudible?

Well, I would need to hear the CD, but everything between bar 203 to the conclusion is marked either pp or ppp.

You should hear the Strings playing pizzicato over a drum roll, then a French Horn enters, followed by an Oboe, and then 2 Flutes playing in contrary motion, followed by a single pizzicato 8th note accompanied by the same on the Timpani.

[lordlance]

I have always made fun of the Seventh as the worst of the lot along with the Second but I suppose sometimes you just need a great performance to make you see a work differently:

The performance being from 1975 may well explain why the tempi aren't glacial like most of Asahina's recordings (80s onwards I suppose) and not so pre-occupied with "profound tempo" ;-)

I take issue with the coda of the finale. It could use more momentum but otherwise I recommend the performance.

[Cato]

I have always made fun of the Seventh as the worst of the lot along with the Second but I suppose sometimes you just need a great performance to make you see a work differently:

The performance being from 1975 may well explain why the tempi aren't glacial like most of Asahina's recordings (80s onwards I suppose) and not so pre-occupied with "profound tempo" ;-)

I take issue with the coda of the finale. It could use more momentum but otherwise I recommend the performance.

Thanks for the link!

Have you tried Eugen Jochum's recordings of the Symphony VII ?

YouTube also offers some of Jochum's television performances with Bruckner's Seventh Symphony.


e.g. here with a French orchestra:

[Cato]

An essay on "lesser-played" symphonies by great composers: Bruckner's Third Symphony, says the author, must not be missed!

"...Anton Bruckner's Symphony No. 3 concludes with what might be the most epic minute-and-a-half of music ever written. The Third opens with a nervous string section while brass gathers themselves for a massive jumpscare about a minute into the music. The slow movement is not the colossus that appears in the Seventh and Eighth Symphonies but it is no slouch. The third movement scherzo has all the energy and drive that we lovers of Bruckner expect and then it's on to the monstrous final movement.

That opening sentence struck me!  What about e.g. the Symphony #5?

Anyway...for the entire essay see:


https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2023/may/19/symphonies-mendelssohn-dvorak-and-bruckner/

[vers la flamme]

Unfortunately, I can't even remember what the finale of the 3rd is like at the moment, so I'll have to listen again asap and see if this guy is right (Right now, I must say no, there is absolutely no way it could possibly beat the end of the 5th, or the 4th.)

[Cato]

Unfortunately, I can't even remember what the finale of the 3rd is like at the moment, so I'll have to listen again asap and see if this guy is right (Right now, I must say no, there is absolutely no way it could possibly beat the end of the 5th, or the 4th.)

From the What Are You Listening To? topic:

Anton Bruckner: Symphony No.3 in D minor, WAB 103, original version. Georg Tintner, Royal Scottish National Orchestra

I do not have the score for the original version: in the Nowak 1889 revised version, the final pages of the Finale are BIG, going beyond the fine endings of its predecessors (i.e. Symphonies 0, I, II), and seemingly exhausting the abilities of the Woodwinds.     

But does it go beyond Symphonies IV or V or the later ones? 

Hmmm! 


As much as I like the Original version, the Finale of the revised (1889) version seems to have more drive, perhaps is a little "neater" in its details.

[vers la flamme]

From the What Are You Listening To? topic:


I do not have the score for the original version: in the Nowak 1889 revised version, the final pages of the Finale are BIG, going beyond the fine endings of its predecessors (i.e. Symphonies 0, I, II), and seemingly exhausting the abilities of the Woodwinds.     

But does it go beyond Symphonies IV or V or the later ones? 

Hmmm! 


As much as I like the Original version, the Finale of the revised (1889) version seems to have more drive, perhaps is a little "neater" in its details.

In that case I'll have to give the revised version a listen soon 

[Cato]

In that case I'll have to give the revised version a listen soon 

Great!  Let us know what you think!

On another point: I did not know that there is a private Bruckner University in Austria!

"The courses offered at the Bruckner University comprise performance and pedagogical studies in the classical range of instruments as well as vocal studies, early music, jazz, improvised music, computer music and composition, right up to elemental music education and audience development.

Our graduates perform as soloists in international concert venues and on renowned stages, are members of distinguished orchestras or teachers in music schools and universities.
Something special: Artistic performance and Pedagogy*

The close connection between performing and pedagogical Bachelor studies at the Bruckner University allows students to take their degree with two courses in parallel.         

See:

https://www.bruckneruni.at/en/university/bruckner-university/history



* The original Ancient Greek word "paedagogos" referred to a slave who accompanied a boy to school (and made sure he stayed there and did not run down to the river to go fishing!    )

In English, a "pedagogue" is a derogatory term for a teacher, one who is dull, uncreative, and mind-crushing.

Obviously in German that sense does not apply at all to the term or its relatives.