GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => General Classical Music Discussion => Topic started by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on September 13, 2021, 03:59:19 PM

Title: Music with Rhythm
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on September 13, 2021, 03:59:19 PM
Any nice orchestral works with strong rhythm/beat?

Do you think rhythmic variation and expression is very important for Classical music compositions just as it is in Jazz and Latin music?
Title: Re: Music with Rhythm
Post by: amw on September 13, 2021, 04:00:58 PM
No and no.
Title: Re: Music with Rhythm
Post by: Mirror Image on September 13, 2021, 04:01:33 PM
Ifukube’s Ritmica Ostinata immediately comes to mind here. As a former percussionist in school band, I think rhythm is quite important in all music not just classical.
Title: Re: Music with Rhythm
Post by: Mirror Image on September 13, 2021, 04:02:09 PM
No and no.

Well, thanks for stopping by! ::)
Title: Re: Music with Rhythm
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on September 13, 2021, 04:03:03 PM
No and no.

 ;D ;D



Ifukube’s Ritmica Ostinata immediately comes to mind here. As a former percussionist in school band, I think rhythm is quite important in all music not just classical.

I appreciate it. I will check it out since I like him.

P.s. I love rhythmic component of William Walton’s music.
Title: Re: Music with Rhythm
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on September 13, 2021, 04:03:34 PM
Well, thanks for stopping by! ::)

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Music with Rhythm
Post by: Mirror Image on September 13, 2021, 04:49:11 PM
Of course, we can’t overlook the rhythmical aspects of composers like Stravinsky, Bartók, Janáček, Martinů, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Ligeti et. al. Each of these composers have such a unique approach to rhythm. Gubaidulina, too, as from what I have read, her music is often based on some kind of rhythmic fragment or series of rhythms.
Title: Re: Music with Rhythm
Post by: Symphonic Addict on September 13, 2021, 07:04:13 PM
These are masters of rhythm in my view:

Holmboe, Honegger, Hindemith, Copland, Shostakovich, Stravinsky, Bartók, Villa-Lobos. Do explore more of his music: symphonies, chamber music, piano works, other orchestral pieces.
Title: Re: Music with Rhythm
Post by: Symphonic Addict on September 13, 2021, 07:09:48 PM
An example of rhythm and rigurosity is Kabelac's Mystery of Time. A masterful passacaglia. The rhythm grows gradually, and achieves a taut tension as it progresses. Rather impressive.

Also, the four granitic Symphonic Metamorphosis by Vagn Holmboe. I rather like their titles. Very evocative.
Title: Re: Music with Rhythm
Post by: Mandryka on September 13, 2021, 07:14:15 PM
Any nice orchestral works with strong rhythm/beat?

Do you think rhythmic variation and expression is very important for Classical music compositions just as it is in Jazz and Latin music?

Explore Stockhausen - e.g. Himmelfahrt and pretty well anything by Steve Reich
Title: Re: Music with Rhythm
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on September 14, 2021, 04:58:28 AM
+1 for Shosty, Holmboe and Bartok.
I will check Kabelac, Stockhausen and Reich.  :)
Title: Re: Music with Rhythm
Post by: Roasted Swan on September 14, 2021, 05:14:36 AM
No and no.

I call your No & No and raise you Yes and Yes
Title: Re: Music with Rhythm
Post by: relm1 on September 14, 2021, 05:16:08 AM
Don't forget Ravel's Bolero. 
Title: Re: Music with Rhythm
Post by: Mirror Image on September 14, 2021, 05:24:47 AM
Don't forget Ravel's Bolero.

Or really Ravel in general. He had a fascinating approach to rhythm.
Title: Re: Music with Rhythm
Post by: Mirror Image on September 14, 2021, 05:27:13 AM
I suppose it’s probably a cliché to mention Falla, Villa-Lobos, Ginastera, Revueltas, Chávez or Guarnieri, but a lot of their music is no doubt rhythmically-centered.
Title: Re: Music with Rhythm
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on September 14, 2021, 12:51:19 PM
I suppose it’s probably a cliché to mention Falla, Villa-Lobos, Ginastera, Revueltas, Chávez or Guarnieri, but a lot of their music is no doubt rhythmically-centered.

I like all of them!
Title: Re: Music with Rhythm
Post by: Spotted Horses on September 14, 2021, 02:08:36 PM
Any nice orchestral works with strong rhythm/beat?

Do you think rhythmic variation and expression is very important for Classical music compositions just as it is in Jazz and Latin music?

I don't think it is hard to find classical music with "strong rhythm/beat." But I tend to find that a lot of sophisticated, relatively modern classical music is rhythmically simplistic. If I had to name a composer who is more rhythmically sophisticated than most it would be Brahms. Often there is rhythmic syncopation or other features that aren't really obvious unless you listen for them, which contribute the the ebb and flow of the music.
Title: Re: Music with Rhythm
Post by: Mirror Image on September 14, 2021, 02:12:35 PM
I like all of them!

 8)
Title: Re: Music with Rhythm
Post by: relm1 on September 14, 2021, 04:17:57 PM
This might not be exactly what OP meant with this thread, but John Adams has a very strong sense of rhythm in Harmonielehre however it evolves subtly.  Part of the challenge of performing the work is you have a repeating rhythmic figure that very slowly changes.  Friends in the Los Angeles Philharmonic have said his music is the hardest they've played because it demands constant focus because you get lulled in to a sense of repetition only to later realize you're lost.  The same can be said of Ravel's Bolero that is very challenging to perform, not because of the music, but because of the repetitive nature.  If you lose focus for a beat, you're lost.  Most other music have an anchor to which you can re-establish focus, such as a time signature change or a new instrument joining in or something you can rely on.  Not so easy when the music changes very, very slowly.
Title: Re: Music with Rhythm
Post by: SimonNZ on September 14, 2021, 05:10:00 PM
Any nice orchestral works with strong rhythm/beat?


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=258dERDC4P8
Title: Re: Music with Rhythm
Post by: krummholz on September 17, 2021, 04:09:52 AM
These are masters of rhythm in my view:

Holmboe, Honegger, Hindemith, Copland, Shostakovich, Stravinsky, Bartók, Villa-Lobos. Do explore more of his music: symphonies, chamber music, piano works, other orchestral pieces.

Gosh, I would add your avatar to that list! (Carl Nielsen, in case you change your avatar at some point)...

And while I wouldn't say that all of Tubin's music is generally very rhythmical, his middle period symphonies (5 through 7) feature some strong rhythms, and the 6th symphony in particular uses dance rhythms to convey a sense of dark drivenness and impending catastrophe.
Title: Re: Music with Rhythm
Post by: Mirror Image on September 17, 2021, 04:13:59 AM
Gosh, I would add your avatar to that list! (Carl Nielsen, in case you change your avatar at some point)...

And while I wouldn't say that all of Tubin's music is generally very rhythmical, his middle period symphonies (5 through 7) feature some strong rhythms, and the 6th symphony in particular uses dance rhythms to convey a sense of dark drivenness and impending catastrophe.

I’m a bit surprised by Cesar’s omission of Nielsen as well.
Title: Re: Music with Rhythm
Post by: Symphonic Addict on September 17, 2021, 09:11:28 AM
Gosh, I would add your avatar to that list! (Carl Nielsen, in case you change your avatar at some point)...

And while I wouldn't say that all of Tubin's music is generally very rhythmical, his middle period symphonies (5 through 7) feature some strong rhythms, and the 6th symphony in particular uses dance rhythms to convey a sense of dark drivenness and impending catastrophe.

Silly me! Nielsen definitely needs to be mentioned too. I don't think I'm going to change my avatar soon. I'm very happy with it as he's my favorite symphonist ever and one of my top-10 composers.

Oh yes, Tubin's 6th Symphony has lots of exciting rhythmic passages. I detect that his style changed importantly from this work on.


I’m a bit surprised by Cesar’s omission of Nielsen as well.

For some reason I associate Nielsen with wit, quirkiness and power more than with rhythm, but yes, I should add him.
Title: Re: Music with Rhythm
Post by: krummholz on September 23, 2021, 06:28:40 AM
I was thinking especially of the 1st movement of Espansiva... and actually, at least as much as rhythm, I associate Nielsen with flow. But rhythm is a big part of that too, I think... not necessarily always strong rhythms, but sometimes, as in the 3rd and 4th symphonies.
Title: Re: Music with Rhythm
Post by: Mirror Image on September 27, 2021, 08:11:02 AM
I was thinking especially of the 1st movement of Espansiva... and actually, at least as much as rhythm, I associate Nielsen with flow. But rhythm is a big part of that too, I think... not necessarily always strong rhythms, but sometimes, as in the 3rd and 4th symphonies.

The rhythms throughout the 5th are especially worthy of mention, too, I would think.