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The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: Dundonnell on January 16, 2009, 07:23:43 PM

Title: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on January 16, 2009, 07:23:43 PM
My 2000th Thread :)

The most prolific British composer of symphonies was easily Havergal Brian with 32 to his name but in second place among the significant figures of the 20th century was the Welshman Daniel Jones. Jones wrote 12 numbered symphonies between 1945 and 1985 and a thirteenth, the Symphony In Memory of John Fussell in 1992, one year before he died. ( For the record-George Lloyd 12, Rubbra and Simpson 11, Hoddinott 10).

Jones was the senior figure in Welsh music of his time and a very fine composer of serious, tonal but sometimes quite 'tough' music. In 1935 he formulated the concept of 'complex metres', in which complex rhythmic patterns are created by irregular metres repeated in regular patterns. The unusual and subtle movement thus created was studied and mathematically developed in Germany by the musicologist and composer Boris Blacher who further adapted the concept of 'variable metres' in his compositions of the 1940s.

The twelve numbered symphonies are remarkable in that each one has a different tonal centre, one for each of the twelve notes. There is an almost Nordic seriousness and sense of organic growth in these symphonies which remind me of a composer like Vagn Holmboe in Denmark(an almost exact contemporary of Jones). These are not 'light' works but have a rather sombre character which I find very appealing :)

Unfortunately only five of the thirteen have been committed to disc but these five do give a pretty good indication of the Jones soundworld. I had hoped that Chandos might have embarked on a cycle with the BBC National Orchestra of Wales while the late Richard Hickox was its Principal Conductor but this never happened(and now never will) :( There is, however, a Chandos box set of the equally impressive eight String Quartets.

Jones was a lifelong friend of the poet Dylan Thomas, wrote the music for the classic and unforgettable BBC Radio production in 1954 of 'Under Milk Wood' with the young Richard Burton, dedicated his 4th Symphony to Thomas, and wrote a biography of the great poet.
One of his most impressive shorter choral pieces is the Cantata 'The Country Beyond the Stars', which uses the words of the famous mystical poet, Henry Vaughan.

It is probably because Jones spent most of his life in South Wales-although he studied in London and continental Europe before World War Two-that he has not received the recognition he deserves. Jones is a British composer to be placed on a par with Alwyn, Rubbra, Berkeley, Rawsthorne and Simpson. I recommend the two Lyrita discs with all possible enthusiasm!

http://www.musicweb-international.com/Jones_Daniel/index.htm

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2007/june07/Jones_SRCD329.htm

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2006/Sept06/Jones_SRCD326.htm
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Lilas Pastia on January 17, 2009, 07:26:43 AM
I've proselytized in these pages for the string quartets, as good a corpus as any in the second half of last century. I have those two Lyrita discs of the symphonies as well, but they've been patiently waiting for months in the long new discs queue. I'll bump them up for a listen. :D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Grazioso on January 18, 2009, 05:32:12 AM
As an aside, be sure to check out Jones's contemporary, William Mathias (1934-1992), a leading Welsh composer, whose major works have been recorded by Nimbus and Lyrita. Some info:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/mathias/index.htm
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: donaldopato on January 18, 2009, 06:26:44 AM
Since I enjoy the music of Alwyn, Rubbra, Berkeley, Rawsthorne, Simpson, Holmboe and Hoddinott I should enjoy Jones. I thought about exploring his works anyway, so now I have the encouragement.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on January 18, 2009, 03:21:11 PM
My 2000th Thread :)

My belated congratulations, Colin! Your contributions have really added a lot of quality to this Forum!

See you soon(ish)!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on January 18, 2009, 04:04:00 PM
Thank you, Johan :)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on January 19, 2009, 02:55:50 AM
Yes, belated congratulations from me too Colin on your two millionth post  ;D

I have been away at my wife's grandmother's 100th birthday celebrations in North Yorkshire over the weekend and am just catching up.

I have always rather liked those Daniel Jones symphonies. I recall a very good, old BBC LP with symphonies 8 and 9 (or was it 9 and 10?) on. Like Andre, your post has encouraged me to listen again. I think that he wrote "The Country beyond the Stars" (unless that was Grace Williams -sorry to be so vague but am at work and can't check), which I liked very much indeed.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on January 19, 2009, 04:01:43 AM
Yes, belated congratulations from me too Colin on your two millionth post  ;D

I have been away at my wife's grandmother's 100th birthday celebrations in North Yorkshire over the weekend and am just catching up.

I have always rather liked those Daniel Jones symphonies. I recall a very good, old BBC LP with symphonies 8 and 9 (or was it 9 and 10?) on. Like Andre, your post has encouraged me to listen again. I think that he wrote "The Country beyond the Stars" (unless that was Grace Williams -sorry to be so vague but am at work and can't check), which I liked very much indeed.

I fear that I would have to live as long as your wife's esteemed grandmother-which is not likely-to achieve two million posts, Jeffrey ;D but thank you for your kind thought :)

Lyrita took these BBC recordings of the 8th and 9th symphonies and incorporated each into the two discs they issued.

I know that you are currently at work so I shall avoid the obvious comment that if you had had the time to read my first post in the thread you would have seen my previous observation about the Cantata "The Country Beyond the Stars", which was indeed written by Daniel Jones ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on January 19, 2009, 08:25:20 AM
I fear that I would have to live as long as your wife's esteemed grandmother-which is not likely-to achieve two million posts, Jeffrey ;D but thank you for your kind thought :)

Lyrita took these BBC recordings of the 8th and 9th symphonies and incorporated each into the two discs they issued.

I know that you are currently at work so I shall avoid the obvious comment that if you had had the time to read my first post in the thread you would have seen my previous observation about the Cantata "The Country Beyond the Stars", which was indeed written by Daniel Jones ;D

Oops, yes sorry Colin - all been a bit of a rush today. Daniel Jones is a serious, thoughtful composer whose scores repay repeated attention. I will try to listen to some of his music again over the next few days and report back.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Lilas Pastia on January 19, 2009, 07:05:16 PM
As an aside, be sure to check out Jones's contemporary, William Mathias (1934-1992), a leading Welsh composer, whose major works have been recorded by Nimbus and Lyrita. Some info:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/mathias/index.htm

Another one of my favourite composers from the UK. His concertos in particular (or at least what I know of them, from the Lyrita release) are unsung minor masterpieces. Very good symphonies too, but on a much more modest scale than, say, Alwyn's.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 02, 2011, 09:18:48 AM
After disrupting the Havergal Brian thread with my enthusiasm for Daniel Jones I was encouraged to discover that I have a fellow admirer in Dundonnell. The more I listen to these cd's the more I get out of these symphonies. It is sad that even in Wales,Jones's symphonies and major works are neglected,even in these devolved times when you would think that there would be renewed enthusiam here for composers of this quality,who are indeed part of our  cultural identity and history. In fact,I would go so far as to say that his best symphonies should be a regular occurrence in our concert halls here. So much for the so called BBC National Orchestra of Wales. They are a wonderful orchestra,but in terms of our own repertory,they strike me as a bit of a bad joke.
Grace Williams and David Wynne are similarly neglected.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 02, 2011, 12:05:41 PM
Sad, isn't it :'(

It does seem as if Jones is currently in that state of limbo into which composers who have died seem to descend until such time as they are "re-discovered". Jones has been dead now for almost twenty years and it is high time this rediscovery started ;D Fortunate indeed the composer who lives long enough, as Havergal Brian and Richard Arnell did, to actually witness a renaissance in interest whilst he is still alive.

The sadly missed Bryden Thomson was obviously keen on the music of Daniel Jones. So too was Sir Charles Groves. Groves is a bit forgotten these days but he did a tremendous job for British composers during his career.

I happen to like some Hoddinott too. The trouble with Hoddinott is that he was far too prolific, churning out compositions for every one of your many music festivals, but at his best his music-quite 'tough' though some of it is- can be darkly impressive. I am a great admirer of the Sixth Symphony which Bryden Thomson recorded for Chandos. It is Hoddinott in more accessible mode. But there is so much more Hoddinott I simply don't know-including any of the later symphonies. It is all very well for the BBC to name the hall in the Wales Millennium Centre as the 'BBC Hoddinott Hall', very kind, very generous etc..........but absolutely no substitute for playing and recording the guy's music!!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 02, 2011, 01:26:52 PM
It is all very well for the BBC to name the hall in the Wales Millennium Centre as the 'BBC Hoddinott Hall', very kind, very generous etc..........but absolutely no substitute for playing and recording the guy's music!!


Knowing advertising agencies, I think the alliteration was responsible for the name. It's only a matter of time before there is a Mathias Mall in Aberystwyth.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 02, 2011, 01:52:07 PM

Knowing advertising agencies, I think the alliteration was responsible for the name. It's only a matter of time before there is a Mathias Mall in Aberystwyth.

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 02, 2011, 02:04:15 PM
I expect some record label will get around to him eventually! But we may have a bit of a wait!!! I remember getting the Hoddinott symphony you mention out of the library some years ago. It was on a cassette. I am not so familiar with Hoddinott,(tut! tut!),but part of the problem I have with the music I have heard is that while some appeals to me,some does not. One that I did enjoy was Hoddinott's Seventh,which I downloaded from somewhere. It incorporates an organ and tuned percussion and I'm going to have to listen to it again. I notice that there is a review of a concert of this symphony on the 'Music & Vision' site.
Of other and more recent Welsh composers,I have enjoyed music by Huw Watkins,Rhian Samuel and Pwyll ap Sion,but I can't say I'm an expert on their music!
   Interesting how some Welsh composers seem to be inspired by Martinu. I have listened to passages of music by Mathias and Rhian Samuel which bring the Czech composer immeadiately to mind.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 02, 2011, 02:17:33 PM
With a bit of help from Johan,if necessary, I could provide a link to  Hoddinott's Seventh & Jones's Second and Twelfth symphonies,if anyone has not heard these and is interested. But not tonight as I'm a bit knackered! I thought Hoddinott's Seventh was rather striking,but I need another listen.
Incidentally,regarding Huw Watkins 'Sinfonietta' which I have on cassette & like Korngolds,is more like a full scale symphony,in terms of scale. Maybe,it was just my imagination,but parts of it reminded me of Havergal Brian. I wonder if he's heard him?
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 02, 2011, 02:19:25 PM
I remember borrowing a Hoddinott LP from the library. On the cover was some cosmic image. Perhaps one of you know which symphony I will have been listening to. It did have power.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 02, 2011, 02:20:56 PM
With a bit of help from Johan,if necessary, I could provide a link to  Hoddinott's Seventh & Jones's Second and Twelfth symphonies,if anyone has not heard these and is interested. But not tonight as I'm a bit knackered! I thought Hoddinott's Seventh was rather striking,but I need another listen.
Incidentally,regarding Huw Watkins 'Sinfonietta' which I have on cassette & like Korngolds,is more like a full scale symphony,in terms of scale. Maybe,it was just my imagination,but parts of it reminded me of Havergal Brian. I wonder if he's heard him?


I'd love to hear some Hoddinott and Jones! I'll help you, if you need help, you're a pro now... But - no rush!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 02, 2011, 02:23:55 PM
I agree that some Hoddinott can be pretty tough going ;D

He wrote much of his music at night of course(he taught at University College, Cardiff during the day) and seems to have been inspired to write a lot of 'night music'. There are lighter pieces written for various state and other occasions-the Welsh Dances for example-but in so many of his other pieces there is not much in the way of 'relaxation'. His is not the sort of music you can half-listen to. The three symphonies on Lyrita(Nos. 2, 3 and 5) can be pretty difficult to assimilate without repeated hearings.

He is a composer I feel that I should like better ;D

His work list is frightening!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alun_Hoddinott
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 02, 2011, 02:25:53 PM
With a bit of help from Johan,if necessary, I could provide a link to  Hoddinott's Seventh & Jones's Second and Twelfth symphonies,if anyone has not heard these and is interested. But not tonight as I'm a bit knackered! I thought Hoddinott's Seventh was rather striking,but I need another listen.
Incidentally,regarding Huw Watkins 'Sinfonietta' which I have on cassette & like Korngolds,is more like a full scale symphony,in terms of scale. Maybe,it was just my imagination,but parts of it reminded me of Havergal Brian. I wonder if he's heard him?

Oh, yes please :)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 02, 2011, 02:26:20 PM

His work list is frightening!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alun_Hoddinott (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alun_Hoddinott)


 :o :o :o  Indeed.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 02, 2011, 02:27:15 PM

I'd love to hear some Hoddinott and Jones! I'll help you, if you need help, you're a pro now... But - no rush!

I can certainly help you with some Hoddinott and some Jones, Johan.....I think you know that ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 02, 2011, 02:28:26 PM

 :o :o :o  Indeed.

Even the 'completist' in me has to admit defeat as far as Hoddinott is concerned ;D ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 02, 2011, 02:33:00 PM
I remember borrowing a Hoddinott LP from the library. On the cover was some cosmic image. Perhaps one of you know which symphony I will have been listening to. It did have power.

Pretty sure that would have been the Third (coupled with Sinfonietta No.3 and Music for Orchestra "The Sun, The Great Luminary of the Universe"---now there's "terrifying" for you!!)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 02, 2011, 02:34:25 PM
I can certainly help you with some Hoddinott and some Jones, Johan.....I think you know that ;D


Ah, of course! I'll make some room in my head, and then the symphonic Eisteddfod can begin. In a few days, perhaps.


Even the 'completist' in me has to admit defeat as far as Hoddinott is concerned ;D ;D


Coming from you, that is revolutionary!


Pretty sure that would have been the Third (coupled with Sinfonietta No.3 and Music for Orchestra "The Sun, The Great Luminary of the Universe"---now there's "terrifying" for you!!)


I think you're right about the record. And about the 'terrifying'!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 02, 2011, 02:34:35 PM
Whoa! That work list is long!!! I had to do quite a bit of scrolling there!
I could also add the Rhian Samuel pieces and the Huw Watkins Sinfonietta at a later date,IF I can find them. Unfortunately,I had a clear out a while back. I needed the room,but it is an action I still regret.
Incidentally,I know of two people who knew Hoddinott and described him (the person,not the music) as 'cold'! Not saying I agree with this,but I just thought I would mention it.
I have to say,the photos Lyrita have used of Daniel Jones & Grace Williams (the one with the symphony) are very nice. Just how releases like that should be.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 02, 2011, 02:37:15 PM
I have to say,the photos Lyrita have used of Daniel Jones & Grace Williams (the one with the symphony) are very nice. Just how releases like that should be.


They should have merged - Grace Jones is quite successful.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 02, 2011, 02:39:29 PM
You mean Grace 'Pull up to the bumper' Jones?!!! Actually,I DO have some Grace Jones in a box,somewhere...........
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 02, 2011, 02:45:24 PM
You mean Grace 'Pull up to the bumper' Jones?!!! Actually,I DO have some Grace Jones in a box,somewhere...........


No, I prefer Daniel, I think! Especially before going to sleep... As I am going to do in a few minutes! See you all tomorrow!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 02, 2011, 02:51:47 PM
Whoa! That work list is long!!! I had to do quite a bit of scrolling there!
I could also add the Rhian Samuel pieces and the Huw Watkins Sinfonietta at a later date,IF I can find them. Unfortunately,I had a clear out a while back. I needed the room,but it is an action I still regret.
Incidentally,I know of two people who knew Hoddinott and described him (the person,not the music) as 'cold'! Not saying I agree with this,but I just thought I would mention it.
I have to say,the photos Lyrita have used of Daniel Jones & Grace Williams (the one with the symphony) are very nice. Just how releases like that should be.

He looks 'cold' in his photographs, I have to admit. And I vaguely remember(from the very distant past) someone who knew him telling me that he was like that.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 02, 2011, 02:53:06 PM
I do find some similarities between Daniel Jones and Brian,actually. Both composers are on first encounter,perhaps,a little forbidding,craggy,severe or,what might be termed,in plain English,'tough nuts to crack'.Yet,repeated listening reveals an often curiously soft centre (crass way of putting it,I know!). Colourful,striking,original orchestration and in it's own way lyrical, approachable and even at times eg Brian's Sixth or Jones's Fourth,lush! They are also gripping and enthralling,in so far as every fresh encounter seems to reveal more. Music that makes you think!

Don't worry Johan,I'm definately not planning to upload any Grace Jones.
Oh,and goodnight! Or,as they say here,'Nos da!'
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 02, 2011, 11:06:56 PM
'Nos da!' Good to know that. So the adjective follows the noun ('nos' must be 'night', am I right?)
 
 As for Hoddinott's and Brian's cragginess - if Hoddinott has that 'soft centre' I think I'd like him.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 03, 2011, 01:55:02 AM
And at this time of the day it's 'Bore da'! I'm not a speaker myself,but I heard it all the time as a child & I can get the gist of a conversation. After midday it will be 'prynhawn da'. And if someone buys you a drink or you just want to bid you're host or drinking partner good health,it's 'iechyd da'!
Back to Welsh composers. I think I will buy that Lyrita cd of Hoddinott symphonies myself. No 7,is certainly intriguing enough for me to want to hear more. I will upload it as soon as possible.
Incidentally,I remember an article in 'The Guardian' some years ago which was about why a country like Wales,which is supposedly so musical ('The Land of Song') has no great composers,or at least,no composers who are perceived as great. I am not sure of the exact wording,but the title of the article was something along the lines of 'So many valleys,but so few mountains'!!! I remember the writer had a theory that one of the obstacles to the creation of a specifically Welsh musical identity was the construction and rhythms of traditional Welsh song and the language  itself. He pointed to (what was) Czechoslovakia and the profusion of composers like Dvorak,Smetana and Janacek,and the way they used speech rhythms and traditional music in the creation of a specifically Czech sounding repertoire.
Anyway,most of it was a bit too 'technical' for me,but it was one of the Guardian's more interesting articles on,so called, 'classical music'. It also explains why I might have been hearing bits of Martinu in some of my Welsh composers!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 03, 2011, 03:31:52 AM
Not being as savvy as some on these boards (I still use cassettes) the uploads may take a little longer than usual. But please bear with me!
Apologies for this.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on September 03, 2011, 04:28:59 AM
I increasingly like Hoddinott's Third Symphony (thanks to Andre of this forum).  It is not 'easy' at all but has a kind of grim, uncompromising integrity which I find rewarding - the final chord is beautiful. No 6 is fine too and more approachable.  I have a very high opinion of Grace Williams's Symphony No 2, rather in the idiom of her teacher's (Vaughan Williams) Symphony No 4. I think that Daniel Jones's 10th Symphony, a fine work was on an old BBC LP but never made it to CD, which is a pity.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 03, 2011, 04:40:35 AM
Daniel Jones's 10th on LP? I'll have to look into that! It seems to me that Welsh composers are all,with the exception of,possibly Mathias,a pretty neglected lot & probably allot more interesting than their neglect would suggest. Indeed,I would go so far as to say that Daniel Jones is one of my favourite composers!
Hoddinott is another composer just crying out for a complete cycle,from say,cpo. Yet,when it comes to recordings of Welsh composers the record labels seem to always go for Mathias or Karl Jenkins!!!
Scottish composers seem to have more luck!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 03, 2011, 05:01:36 AM
The uploading is now in progress!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on September 03, 2011, 05:50:50 AM
Daniel Jones's 10th on LP? I'll have to look into that! It seems to me that Welsh composers are all,with the exception of,possibly Mathias,a pretty neglected lot & probably allot more interesting than their neglect would suggest. Indeed,I would go so far as to say that Daniel Jones is one of my favourite composers!
Hoddinott is another composer just crying out for a complete cycle,from say,cpo. Yet,when it comes to recordings of Welsh composers the record labels seem to always go for Mathias or Karl Jenkins!!!
Scottish composers seem to have more luck!

I may have got that wrong - the LP could have has symphonies 8 and 9 on - sorry.  The LP is in the attic somewhere - I recall that I liked both works very much.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on September 03, 2011, 06:02:09 AM
I just did a google search 'Daniel Jones Symphony 10', which took me back to my above post  ::)

I think that the LP was probably Bryden Thomson's BBC resording of symphonies 8 and 9 and a Dance Suite. The symphonies are on Lyrita CDs of course - but he did write a 10th Symphony!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 03, 2011, 06:20:59 AM
You had me going then. I even had a look at the Lps on ebay! Although,I had an idea the Lp would have been in our library. Nice bit of nostalgia looking at those Lp sleeves. But I wouldn't go back to them.
(Symphony No 10 1980, I would have been in my late teens when he finished that one!)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 03, 2011, 06:49:04 AM
The upoads are all finished now. Talk about slow. It was like trying to teach a garden snail to speak.
Not that I have I've ever tried that,I hasten to add!
I will try and do the moving to Public Folder & creating a link here next.
                                                         
                                                                         Yours Sincerely
                                                                          Fred Flinstone
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 03, 2011, 08:18:03 AM
The cause of Welsh symphonic music has found its champion.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 03, 2011, 08:29:50 AM
So the link must work then! I could be like you for Brian....although I may have a job beating Dundonnell! Must say the uploading here took ages. Not for the faint hearted. Finding that I had Jones's Cello Concerto was a suprise bonus. I'd forgotten about that. Not being a big fan of the Cello I have to admit to avoiding it. So,if you try it you will have got there before me. One of my favourites,incidentally,is the Fourth. If Dundonnell doesn't provide you with it,I can.
Also had some fun bumping the thread of the less than popular Henry Cowell.  I don't think MI was too impressed!
Brian and Jones are definately,infinitely, more profound.
But I do quite like Cowell,at his best,even if he's a weeny!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 03, 2011, 09:39:07 AM
I am listening to the Second Symphony, and this is my kind of music, absolutely! This speaks to me immediately, without any problems. It isn't sweet, it's tough, but there is something magical there, too. I really really like this music!

Later: the second movement even ends with a bare fifth - very Brianic.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 03, 2011, 09:52:45 AM
Indeed,the DJ thread is starting to look a little busier now! I must say,I am ashamed to admit that I am unable to find the cd I made of the Second. I have only just found 'The Tigers' cd's. The back room is full of stuff,I can hardly reach the window. The charity shops will be busy. I intend to make  new cds,anyway,as the ones I bought were not brand names. Do you think that matters,longevity wise,I mean?
I believe Dundonnell is providing you with some more of his symphonies,if not,I can provide more,maybe,via you're virtual post box? No 4 is a personal favourite,particularly the second movement.
His earlier symphonies are more expansive. Like Brian,the later ones are more concentrated. Although,the final one harks back to his earlier form.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 03, 2011, 10:23:06 AM
Just listened to the Second Symphony. I noticed the theme from the first movement is developed in the finale and also ends the piece. I like the way Jones uses the orchestra. His woodwind writing has a very 'Nordic' feel, a word Colin used and which is quite apt. His harmonic language can be quite dissonant. Jones' style hasn't that generic middle-of-the-century feel, it is quite personal. The percussion is used in a magical way (in the first movement especially), conjuring up a world of wonder and childhood.

First impressions, these.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 03, 2011, 10:23:56 AM
I'll get some cd's and make some more copies,this time using a respected brand! Unfortunately,the pc is upstairs & I don't have the superior Sennheiser cordless transmitter attached to it (I've got three!).
Very frustrating.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 03, 2011, 10:26:24 AM
I'll get some cd's and make some more copies,this time using a respected brand! Unfortunately,the pc is upstairs & I don't have the superior Sennheiser cordless transmitter attached to it (I've got three!).
Very frustrating.

Using a good brand costs you more but it's a good investment. My oldest burned CDs are from 2006 and they're still fine (Sony CD-R).
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 03, 2011, 10:37:37 AM
Even more frustrating after you're description!!!
At the same time,his music CAN be suprisingly lyrical,even romantic. The second movement of the Fourth is a case in point. It has a wild fantastical quality,very grand. The spirit of Welsh folklore and fantasy. I will upload it now or perhaps send you a link? And yes,I love the way he uses percussion. Do try the eighth,if and when you have the time. Like Brian,I do like the way he reveals his innermost secrets gradually. There's that superficially craggy,sometimes dissonant surface,but you slowly peel away at it,and after a while you realise it really is quite approachable,lyrical music,in it's own severe way. And his orchestration, at it's best,really glitters.
Regarding cd's and you're above post.Sony sound good to me & I've heard good things about them! My cds were bought at Rayman's (I always get the name wrong),a stationery chain. They may be allright,but I want my recordings to be safe! I can't help thinking of some of those bargain audio tapes. One thing about using a cassette deck now is that all the cheapo brands have given up on the medium. As far as I can make out only Sony and Maxell still make audio cassettes. I'd better stock up before long though,just in case!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 03, 2011, 10:41:32 AM
his music CAN be suprisingly lyrical,even romantic

I agree. I just had a 'sneak preview' of the Eighth. It sounds enchanting. Yes, I like this music!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 03, 2011, 10:48:03 AM
If you want to save time,try movement 3 of the eighth. It's only a little over 3 minutes long!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 03, 2011, 10:54:30 AM
The Fourth is on the way & will be joining the other files,hopefully within the next 30 minutes. I'll leave 8 & 4 for a while and then remove them. The others can stay up there as you can't get them any other way.
No 7 is tremendous! But you've got enough to get on with for now,I suppose?
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 03, 2011, 11:02:14 AM
The Fourth is on the way & will be joining the other files,hopefully within the next 30 minutes. I'll leave 8 & 4 for a while and then remove them. The others can stay up there as you can't get them any other way.
No 7 is tremendous! But you've got enough to get on with for now,I suppose?

I'll make some coffee and listen to the Eighth later! Looking forward to the Fourth, too.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 03, 2011, 11:08:24 AM
As soon as I get the cds I'll be able to relax a little more while listening to you're Louis Glass and Rangstrom uploads. It's awkward listening on the pc & I must admit to being a bit old fashioned when it comes to listening to music. Anyway,my comfy chair is next to the cd player!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 03, 2011, 11:11:15 AM
Once I finish uploading the Fourth I will log off here for a while & do a bit writing (and watch the end of a film I've been watching).
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 03, 2011, 11:13:26 AM
I am sampling DJ's string quartets, too. They sound very interesting, I must say...

http://www.theclassicalshop.net/Details.aspx?CatalogueNumber=CHAN%209535 (http://www.theclassicalshop.net/Details.aspx?CatalogueNumber=CHAN%209535)

Once I finish uploading the Fourth I will log off here for a while & do a bit writing (and watch the end of a film I've been watching).

Being the landlord of a thread is hard work...
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 03, 2011, 11:27:59 AM
You're ahead of me there. Now YOU'RE officially the Jones expert! This is what comes of being too obsessed with symphonies!
Actually,I DO like string quartets,though I didn't use to,and I just had to go to the Chandos website too! These sound very interesting. I'm on a bit of a budget at the moment,so I'll have to make do with the samples now. I was looking for some off the beaten track string quartets & these sound like my cup of tea. Dundonnell said he liked them,didn't he.
As I get older I DO find myself being drawn,more and more,to instrumental combinations. When I was younger it was ALL orchestras.
Must get these before Xmas.
Actually,I think I did download the booklet somewhere.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 03, 2011, 11:34:24 AM
I feel a bit embarassed and daft at overlooking these,Johan. As Janis Joplin once said," I must make amends" (although I will hopefully do a better job of it than she did).
Also,if I download these I may have finally got enough points to claim my free Chandos cd! (If downloads count?).
Got to get these!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 03, 2011, 11:36:49 AM
The Jones 4 is up!
Right,I'm off for a while.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 03, 2011, 12:24:57 PM
Thanks, cilgwyn!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 03, 2011, 12:56:40 PM
This is what's so annoying about b***** forums at times. You go off for a a few hours because there are other things in life( ;D) and then come back to find that all hell has broken loose in a thread you are involved in and it is difficult catching up.

....well, not "all hell" in this case but goodies being shared :) :)

Ok...I can't quite work out who has offered what, who has got what and whether anybody wants something from me! (Very late night last night :-[)

I have the two Lyrita cds with Symphonies Nos. 4, 6, 7, 8, 9 and the Cantata "The Country Beyond the Stars".....so, if there is anything there you still need, Johan, let me know. You know how good I am at uploading stuff ;D ;D (Fast but not always initially successful, I think is the description :D)

Now I shall try to backtrack to find the new stuff from cilgwyn!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 03, 2011, 01:01:11 PM
Cilgwyn has uploaded 2, 4, 8, and 12 and the Cello Concerto. I am listening to 4 at the moment...
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 03, 2011, 01:02:57 PM
Cilgwyn has uploaded 2, 4, 8, and 12 and the Cello Concerto. I am listening to 4 at the moment...

WOW! Nos. 2 and 12 and the Cello Concerto? Oh.. joy is unconfined :) :)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 03, 2011, 01:10:39 PM
Daniel Jones's 10th on LP? I'll have to look into that! It seems to me that Welsh composers are all,with the exception of,possibly Mathias,a pretty neglected lot & probably allot more interesting than their neglect would suggest. Indeed,I would go so far as to say that Daniel Jones is one of my favourite composers!
Hoddinott is another composer just crying out for a complete cycle,from say,cpo. Yet,when it comes to recordings of Welsh composers the record labels seem to always go for Mathias or Karl Jenkins!!!
Scottish composers seem to have more luck!

Oh, I don't know if that is completely true about Scottish composers.

Yes, there is a huge amount of James Macmillan on disc and there have been recordings of some Alexander Mackenzie and John B. McEwen and, more recently, some Erik Chisholm but you will look in vain for much Iain Hamilton or Robin Orr-both of whom were considerable symphonists-none of Hamilton's four symphonies and only one of Orr's three.
And if Kenneth Leighton is counted as Scottish because he worked in Edinburgh then William Wordsworth qualifies too because he lived in Scotland....and there are only two of Wordsworth's eight symphonies on disc.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 03, 2011, 01:13:42 PM
Oh, I don't know if that is completely true about Scottish composers.

Yes, there is a huge amount of James Macmillan on disc and there have been recordings of some Alexander Mackenzie and John B. McEwen and, more recently, some Erik Chisholm but you will look in vain for much Iain Hamilton or Robin Orr-both of whom were considerable symphonists-none of Hamilton's four symphonies and only one of Orr's three.
And if Kenneth Leighton is counted as Scottish because he worked in Edinburgh then William Wordsworth qualifies too because he lived in Scotland....and there are only two of Wordsworth's eight symphonies on disc.


On the Unsung Composers forum these works by Iain Hamilton can be downloaded:


Piano Concerto No.1 (1949, revised 1967)~
Margaret Kitchen, piano/ BBC SO/ Edward Downes (br. 23/11/1970)

Symphony No.2 (1951)**
BBC SSO/ Jerzy Maksymiuk (br. 2/11/1995)

Piano Concerto No.2 (1960, revised 1987)~
David Horne, piano/ BBC SSO/ Jerzy Maksymiuk (br. 23/9/1991)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 03, 2011, 01:16:17 PM
Oh....Hoddinott's 7th as well....... :) :) :)

AND the news about the Hamilton downloads :) :)

Can the evening get ANY better?? Is it Christmas?? ;D ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 03, 2011, 01:20:24 PM
Johan returned the favour by 'introducing' me to the String Quartets! When I saw the words,'all hell had broken loose' I was worried for a moment! I hope the bitrates,or whatever you call them,are better this time? If not,feel free to tell me or get a higher quality upload from Dundonnell. When I clicked on rip this time the thing asked me what bit rates (?) to use & I remember clicking on the one that said 'best quality'. Mind you,as a bone fide cassette man,I would have been struggling with cassette lengths,once,which would have been worse.
Not being very keen on the mournful sound of the Cello,I actually have avoided listening to the Concerto. The only Cello Concerto I can bear is the Dvorak and possibly the Moeran,at a pinch. But I shall have to listen to it now.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 03, 2011, 01:26:46 PM
If Richard Itter knocks on my door I could always ask for his autograph before they march me off!
Talking about McEwen,I see that Hyperion are bringing out his Viola Concerto,before long. As to Iain Hamilton,he used to be a favourite of the critics once,didn't he? What went wrong? Apart from being dead,of course!
Fricker likewise,was given the 'key of the City of London' I believe.
Will the same fate ever befall Birtwistle,I wonder?
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 03, 2011, 01:28:39 PM
Johan returned the favour by 'introducing' me to the String Quartets! When I saw the words,'all hell had broken loose' I was worried for a moment! I hope the bitrates,or whatever you call them,are better this time? If not,feel free to tell me or get a higher quality upload from Dundonnell. When I clicked on rip this time the thing asked me what bit rates (?) to use & I remember clicking on the one that said 'best quality'. Mind you,as a bone fide cassette man,I would have been struggling with cassette lengths,once,which would have been worse.
Not being very keen on the mournful sound of the Cello,I actually have avoided listening to the Concerto. The only Cello Concerto I can bear is the Dvorak and possibly the Moeran,at a pinch. But I shall have to listen to it now.


The higher the bitrate, the better the quality (and the bigger the file). The 4th was 192kbps, which is okay. 128kbps is a bit low, but the quality of the music comes through.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 03, 2011, 01:37:05 PM
I think this is higher than my Hull Youth SO uploads,which John enjoyed so much!!! I shall have another look at my pc. I can have another go,or you can ask Dundonnell for help. I would like to be able to do that,so I think I will have a go tomorrow. If you like?
Or I can send you a batch on c90 cassettes,if you want?!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 03, 2011, 01:46:06 PM
I think this is higher than my Hull Youth SO uploads,which John enjoyed so much!!! I shall have another look at my pc. I can have another go,or you can ask Dundonnell for help. I would like to be able to do that,so I think I will have a go tomorrow. If you like?
Or I can send you a batch on c90 cassettes,if you want?!!!!!!!!


I think I'm satisfied, cilgwyn!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 03, 2011, 01:46:33 PM
192k thingummy seems to be the highest on my Media Player.
Using a higher bitrate uses up more cd space then?
There had to be a downside.
Incidentally,Itter needn't worry,I don't intend to leave those up too long. But judging by the current situation regarding recordings and concert performances,Daniel Jones needs all the help he can get.
I shall have to write to the BBC and ask them when or if they intend to programme some more of his major works,if at all? They do answer,but whether it will be something I want to hear is another matter.
Incidentally,I keep mentioning David Wynne,another prolific Welsh composer,who received some praise in his lifetime. I'm not an expert on his music,but he sounds intriguing. There is a very interesting article on Musicweb,although I think it has been moved to another site,you may know the one I mean. I will try and create a link here if and when I can.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 03, 2011, 01:50:48 PM
192k thingummy seems to be the highest on my Media Player.
Using a higher bitrate uses up more cd space then?


Yes. But within limits. That 4th you just uploaded in 192 kbps, in a wma format: 11 minutes of music = 15 MB. So that's not much.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 03, 2011, 01:58:24 PM
Isn't FLAC supposed to be better?
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 03, 2011, 02:01:11 PM
Isn't FLAC supposed to be better?


Yes, almost the best (around 324kbps), because it's lossless = CD quality. But it makes a file much larger.


P.S. I say goodnight! I'm going to watch an episode of 'Sherlock' for the second time, before turning in...
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 03, 2011, 02:06:45 PM
If Richard Itter knocks on my door I could always ask for his autograph before they march me off!
Talking about McEwen,I see that Hyperion are bringing out his Viola Concerto,before long. As to Iain Hamilton,he used to be a favourite of the critics once,didn't he? What went wrong? Apart from being dead,of course!
Fricker likewise,was given the 'key of the City of London' I believe.
Will the same fate ever befall Birtwistle,I wonder?

First of all....MANY THANKS!! I have now downloaded the 2nd and 12th symphonies, the cello concerto and the Hoddinott 7th. All of which are new to me.

...well, ACTUALLY, back in the 1970s I used to tape stuff off the radio and I still have a huge collection of reel-to-reel tapes wth countless treasures(probably including quite a few Jones symphonies) BUT I have no means of playing any of those tapes...which is a TRAGEDY :'(

Yes, I see that McEwen's Viola Concerto will be released soon.

As for Hamilton and Fricker....they made ONE serious mistake(which happened to be the SAME mistake). They accepted chairs of music in American Universities(Fricker in California, Hamilton in North Carolina). Once they had left the UK they were quickly forgotten and when they returned no one was interested in their sort of toughish, semi-serialist compositions. I know from a mutual acquaintance that Hamilton in particular was VERY bitter about his neglect :(
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 03, 2011, 02:07:25 PM
Dr David Wrights website has an interesting article on David Wynne (and some other Welsh composers). Unfortunately,it is now in pdf format and my Windows Vista refuses to open anything with adobe. Apparently there is an issue with the software. So unfortunately,I am unable to create a link to another prolific and very intriguing sounding Welsh composer. But I CAN direct anyone who is interested there.
Annoying!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 03, 2011, 02:10:03 PM
Dr David Wrights website has an interesting article on David Wynne (and some other Welsh composers). Unfortunately,it is now in pdf format and my Windows Vista refuses to open anything with adobe. Apparently there is an issue with the software. So unfortunately,I am unable to create a link to another prolific and very intriguing sounding Welsh composer. But I CAN direct anyone who is interested there.
Annoying!


Don't use Adobe then. I use Foxit Reader. Free and small.


Now back to Baker Street!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 03, 2011, 02:19:37 PM
Ok,Johan,we shall leave this last point until tomorrow. As it's in pdf format a link would be impossible anyway,I suppose.
Dundonnell. I don't know Hamilton's music,but I can remember his music being played on the radio. Even an opera,I think?
I have,or had (and hopfully STILL do) Fricker's third symphony on a cassette and thought it was rather powerful.
You would have been very lucky to have a reel to reel tape recorder. That was state of the art then. Much better than cassette,I should imagine. But now,alas,not so lucky now,I gather. Unlike cassettes there is no new equipment around. What can you do? I haven't heard of any equipment to transfer such tapes,though there may be a company that could do it,at cost (well they do cine). I know that cine is still made & has a small following and some strange people like me still record using cassettes,so maybe there is a way?
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 03, 2011, 02:32:26 PM
I can open it inside my browser...


http://www.wrightmusic.net/pdfs/david-wynne.pdf (http://www.wrightmusic.net/pdfs/david-wynne.pdf)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 03, 2011, 02:33:27 PM
http://www.musicweb-international.com/Hamilton/index.htm

Good article about Hamilton. The first two symphonies were written in 1949 and 1951 and are described as tonal and with influences from composers like Bax, Rubbra and Walton. I suspect that they may well be Hindemithian as well. The third and fourth followed 30 years later after Hamilton had made a belated attempt to return to tonal music in the hope that this might gain him more acceptance(it didn't!).

Fricker I like a lot! I have the 1st symphony on LP, the second on cd and Nos. 3-5 on tape(haha!) I fear that the cost of transferring several hundred tapes with probably approaching 1000 hours of music would bankrupt me :(
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 03, 2011, 02:35:54 PM
Peter Racine Fricker on Unsung Composers:


Symphony No.1, Op.9 (1949)**

BBC SSO/ Martyn Brabbins (br. 19/10/1995)

Dance Scene, Op. 22 (1954)~
BBC NOW/ David Porcelijn (br. date unknown)
 
Symphony No.3, Op.36 (1960)**
BBC PO/ Barry Wordsworth (br. 22/11/1995)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 03, 2011, 02:39:23 PM
Peter Racine Fricker on Unsung Composers:


Symphony No.1, Op.9 (1949)**

BBC SSO/ Martyn Brabbins (br. 19/10/1995)

Dance Scene, Op. 22 (1954)~
BBC NOW/ David Porcelijn (br. date unknown)
 
Symphony No.3, Op.36 (1960)**
BBC PO/ Barry Wordsworth (br. 22/11/1995)

All very well, Johan but the site is refusing to let me join because it says I am getting the verification questions wrong!! Grieg did only write ONE piano concerto, didn't he?????
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 03, 2011, 02:40:17 PM
All very well, Johan but the site is refusing to let me join because it says I am getting the verification questions wrong!! Grieg did only write ONE piano concerto, didn't he? ??? ?


As far as I know - yes!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 03, 2011, 02:41:21 PM
Hmmmmm!

I will try again tomorrow......written through clenched teeth of impatience ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 03, 2011, 02:42:24 PM
Hmmmmm!

I will try again tomorrow......written through clenched teeth of impatience ;D ;D ;D


If all else fails, I can give you the links (Albion won't mind).
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Albion on September 03, 2011, 09:30:02 PM
All very well, Johan but the site is refusing to let me join because it says I am getting the verification questions wrong!! Grieg did only write ONE piano concerto, didn't he?????

Did you try the answer as a '1' or a 'one'? If you still have problems, let me know and I'll get on to the moderator to investigate.

For information, I've listed what is available in the British (and Irish) download section at UC on the UC thread.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 04, 2011, 04:02:04 AM
Griegs Piano Concerto by Eric Morecambe!
Did you get to 221B Baker Street with you're deerstalker and meerschaum pipe?
And by Hansom Cab? The fogs always atrocious.
Anna Karenina by Hamilton. I'm sure that's the one I heard on the radio. The ENO 1978. I would have been in my late teens then.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Albion on September 04, 2011, 04:21:02 AM
I think it was Bryden Thomson who broadcast a complete Daniel Jones symphony cycle on Radio 3 (minus the 13th, as the conductor passed away just before it was completed). Does anybody know if these were live or studio performances? Either way, it would be great if some enterprising company had the initiative to license them as a job lot from the BBC (as they clearly have no interest in them).

If some of the old cobblers that was issued on the 'BBC Legends' label can be mined from the archive, it should not be beyond the wit of man (or woman) to make far more valuable recordings like the Jones available (even streaming audio would be preferable to nothing).

 ::)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 04, 2011, 04:28:17 AM
Did you get to 221B Baker Street with you're deerstalker and meerschaum pipe? And by Hansom Cab? The fogs always atrocious.


After a short skirmish with Moriarty, Watson and I spent an enjoyable evening playing Scrabble.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 04, 2011, 04:28:26 AM
Some of the reviews of BBC Legend cds have made you wonder why they bothered. Cd's of Giuilini and Barbirolli,for example. Below par performances which should have been,and would have been left in the 'vault' if the conductors,themselves,had been alive.
Still,maybe things MIGHT look up?!!!!!
Sorry,Albion. Johan was (trying to) watch Sherlock last night. I'm not going nuts,yet!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Albion on September 04, 2011, 04:32:49 AM
Cilgwyn, have you come across this recent disc of orchestral music by Arwel Hughes (1909-1988) -

(http://i.prs.to/t_200/bisbiscd1674.jpg)

BISCD1674

Anatiomaros (1943)
Prelude for Orchestra (1945)
Suite for Orchestra (1947)
Menna (1950-51, perf. 1954) - Prelude
Serch yw’r doctor (Love’s the doctor) (perf. 1960) - Overture
Legend: Owain Glyndŵr (1979)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 04, 2011, 04:51:07 AM
I think I've spotted the cover,but I didn't pay that much attention,for some reason. But I think I will have to look into this one. I wonder if there are any reviews? Or,is this a pre-release? He's Owain Arwel Hughe's father,of course! Come to think of it,I seem to recall that Chandos released one of his choral works (?) some years ago. Apparently,he was a student of Vaughan Williams and Holst.
Hm? I wonder if Owain Arwel could be persuaded to record some Daniel Jones? I'd never thought of BIS. They're quality of their recordings is often quite spectacular. They would be ideal. And not forgetting Grace Williams,too!

Too early for reviews,I see. But HMV are offering it for £9.99,post free.
David Wynne's String Quartet No3 & Piano Sonata No 2 are on a Lyrita cd,coupled with a string quartet by Ian Parrott & a Piano Quintet by David Harries. But I think I will want to investigate Daniel Jones's string Quartets first. And of course,I spent this months budget on a French movie & a cd of Henry Cowell ('Dancing with Henry' Mode).
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 04, 2011, 05:38:10 AM
Did you try the answer as a '1' or a 'one'? If you still have problems, let me know and I'll get on to the moderator to investigate.

For information, I've listed what is available in the British (and Irish) download section at UC on the UC thread.

I used "one" which was probably where I went wrong :-[

However, all is now sorted as I managed to register today :)  Have commented in the 'Unsung Composers' thread....in a state of ecstasy ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 04, 2011, 05:42:37 AM
I think I've spotted the cover,but I didn't pay that much attention,for some reason. But I think I will have to look into this one. I wonder if there are any reviews? Or,is this a pre-release? He's Owain Arwel Hughe's father,of course! Come to think of it,I seem to recall that Chandos released one of his choral works (?) some years ago. Apparently,he was a student of Vaughan Williams and Holst.
Hm? I wonder if Owain Arwel could be persuaded to record some Daniel Jones? I'd never thought of BIS. They're quality of their recordings is often quite spectacular. They would be ideal. And not forgetting Grace Williams,too!

Too early for reviews,I see. But HMV are offering it for £9.99,post free.
David Wynne's String Quartet No3 & Piano Sonata No 2 are on a Lyrita cd,coupled with a string quartet by Ian Parrott & a Piano Quintet by David Harries. But I think I will want to investigate Daniel Jones's string Quartets first. And of course,I spent this months budget on a French movie & a cd of Henry Cowell!!!

Good luck in persuading Robert von Bahr of BIS to record some Daniel Jones ;D What motivates that man to chose repertoire to record is one of the mysteries/secrets of the recording industry ;D ;D

It is an excellent idea though to instance Owain Arwel Hughes as a possible advocate. It was he who recorded the Holmboe symphonies and he did a superb job with them. And since Jones and Holmboe are similar types of composers he might well be interested :)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 04, 2011, 05:48:12 AM
Regarding you're personal message,Johan. I can just see myself turning into a Pirate and a very angry looking Mr Itter hobbling up my lane with a demand for the price of a daniel Jones cd!


Shshshsh...  :o
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 04, 2011, 06:28:34 AM
  I just opened AND downloaded the booklet for the Daniel Jones String Quartets on Chandos using Foxit. Virtually instantaneous! Adobe kept me waiting for ages. Yet,every blinking site you can think of plugs Adobe. I wonder why,when there is something much better available? Anyone know? (More fool me for not knowing about it,of course. You need to look!).
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 04, 2011, 07:37:23 AM
http://www.mediafire.com/?gwsteelf843vw# (http://www.mediafire.com/?gwsteelf843vw#)

Click me with you're computer mouse!
Click me! Click me! CLICK MEEEE!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Lethevich on September 04, 2011, 08:05:53 AM
http://www.mediafire.com/?gwsteelf843vw# (http://www.mediafire.com/?gwsteelf843vw#)

Click me with you're computer mouse!
Click me! Click me! CLICK MEEEE!

Ooh, wonderful things hidden within ;D Thanks again, for all your links - now I only have to find time to listen to everything...
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Lilas Pastia on September 04, 2011, 05:21:17 PM
Well, thanks folks for some more Daniel Jones  :D.

I had no idea he had written all those symphonies. Only had the 2 Lyrita recordings to judge by - and wonderful they are !

Re, Jones' quartets: a grrrrrreat body of works, done proud in Chandos' splendid set. Enjoy !
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 05, 2011, 01:37:00 AM
They Daniel Jones String Quartets are VERY high on my list now (thanks to Johan!),but for some reason I spent my current cd budget on the unpopular Henry Cowell (Naxos Continum vol 2 & 'Dancing with Henry' Mode)!!! But,when I do,I think I will buy them one at a time. Such,a pity they are now only available as Mp3's,but you can make cd's,so what's the difference,really? On the other hand,if they were on cd's you could probably get the set for a low price,from a seller,instead of having to stump up,nearly sixteen pounds!
The sad thing about this is that,the fact that Daniel Jones's SQ's have been relegated to downloads means that Chandos are,presumably, uninterested in his music. I only hope I AM proved wrong! On that note,it is interesting to observe that most of Chandos's measly representation of Welsh composers has been reduced to Mp3 downloads!!! Interesting that!
Now,if ONLY Havergal Brian had been more interested in chamber & instrumental music. I'm sure Brian's String Quartets could have been every as absorbing as his symphonies. Oh,the great 'might have been's of music'!
On this note. I have yet to see anything on the HB thread about his solo piano music. There IS a cd of it. In fact,I had the Lp once. Unfortunately,I seem to remember that it was one of the few Havergal Brian records,if not THE only one,not to interest me. I remember there was a 'funny' piece at the end with someone talking. But I DID like the opening item on side 1.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 05, 2011, 08:28:22 AM
That Lyrita cd with David Wynne's String Quartet & Piano Sonata is going on my list as well. Another one I've just got to hear.
The early Chandos cd of vocal works by Grace Williams (The Dancers,etc) may be interesting,too. Again,MP3,only! Has anyone here heard this cd,all the way,through,I wonder?
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 05, 2011, 04:38:57 PM
OK....I DO NOT want to raise your hopes too high :-X

.....I have spent a substantial part of this evening crawling about in my attic to try to locate my collection of reel-to-reel tapes(around 260 of them) containing music recorded from the radio back in the 1970s....

...AND, as important, the catalogue of what is on each tape....

These have been achieved :) :)

As far as Daniel Jones is concerned I have:

Symphony No.3
Symphony No.10
Violin Concerto
Oratorio "St. Peter"
Tone Poem "Cloud Messenger"
Concert Overture
Overture "Ieuenctid"

...and, if you think that is mouth-watering, imagine what else I have in the way of British music ;D ;D ;D (all the Fricker symphonies for starters!)

Now...I have talked to a sound engineer friend and he says that IF the tapes have not deteriorated to being worthless he can find me a reel-to-reel player and the technology to convert to digital format.

PLEASE don't get your hopes up too high yet but.......... :)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Hattoff on September 05, 2011, 09:28:30 PM
Quote
OK....I DO NOT want to raise your hopes too high :-X

.....I have spent a substantial part of this evening crawling about in my attic to try to locate my collection of reel-to-reel tapes(around 260 of them) containing music recorded from the radio back in the 1970s....

...AND, as important, the catalogue of what is on each tape....

These have been achieved :) :)

As far as Daniel Jones is concerned I have:

Symphony No.3
Symphony No.10
Violin Concerto
Oratorio "St. Peter"
Tone Poem "Cloud Messenger"
Concert Overture
Overture "Ieuenctid"

...and, if you think that is mouth-watering, imagine what else I have in the way of British music ;D ;D ;D (all the Fricker symphonies for starters!)

Now...I have talked to a sound engineer friend and he says that IF the tapes have not deteriorated to being worthless he can find me a reel-to-reel player and the technology to convert to digital format.

PLEASE don't get your hopes up too high yet but.......... :)

As the latest official Daniel Jones convert, that is is more than interesting.

Got to get into Fricker soon.
 
My old reel to reel tapes, upon which I recorded much Brian, deteriorated badly. My own fault for not storing them properly >:(

What else have you got on those tapes? I'm ever so sorry but I can barely contain myself with the excitment. You must have lots of the same composers I used to have :)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 06, 2011, 12:15:34 AM
OK....I DO NOT want to raise your hopes too high :-X

.....I have spent a substantial part of this evening crawling about in my attic to try to locate my collection of reel-to-reel tapes(around 260 of them) containing music recorded from the radio back in the 1970s....

...AND, as important, the catalogue of what is on each tape....

These have been achieved :) :)

As far as Daniel Jones is concerned I have:

Symphony No.3
Symphony No.10
Violin Concerto
Oratorio "St. Peter"
Tone Poem "Cloud Messenger"
Concert Overture
Overture "Ieuenctid"

...and, if you think that is mouth-watering, imagine what else I have in the way of British music ;D ;D ;D (all the Fricker symphonies for starters!)

Now...I have talked to a sound engineer friend and he says that IF the tapes have not deteriorated to being worthless he can find me a reel-to-reel player and the technology to convert to digital format.

PLEASE don't get your hopes up too high yet but.......... :)


Unreel...  ;D


If these tapes were to be converted, we'd have a quantum leap in our DJ knowledge. Isn't there a Daniel Jones Society to sponsor you?
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 06, 2011, 03:01:20 AM
We could start one!
An attic should be a nice dry,cool-ish place for audio or video tapes,no magnetic fields or heat sources,electrical wiring or bulb on beam,excepted. that shouldn't do any harm. Reel to reel has a wider dynamic range,doesn't it. I put on a 25 year old cassette.the other night. It worked perfectly. People blame the tape,but it's often the way you store it. Although,there are other factors of course.
 I know from my experience of cine & 16mm film,that there are allot of enthusiasts for vintage equipment. Even now in 2011,you can still buy cine & 16mm film,even restored projectors & editing equipment. Film lubricant,brand new super 8 films & even get the equipment repaired. Betamax has followers,so does tape. I still enjoy using cassettes & only the other week I was poring through a users forum on a website called 'tapeheads'. I think they mentioned reel to reel.
I wouldn't be suprised if there are enthusiasts who still swear by video tape!
At any rate,you are a collector extroadinaire,Dundonnell!!!! I would feel a bit like Indiana Jones,if I were you;although,thankfully,no giant rolling balls or snakes up there! Let's hope they're okay!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 06, 2011, 03:12:56 AM
At any rate,you are a collector extroadinaire,Dundonnell!!!! I would feel a bit like Indiana Jones,if I were you;although,thankfully,no giant rolling balls or snakes up there! Let's hope they're okay!

 ;D


OT: Talking abut Spielberg, I'm reminded of George Lucas and Star Wars: the new GMG member Thranx, a Brianite, is none other than Sci-Fi writer Alan Dean Foster, who was partly responsible for fleshing out the Star Wars universe in the 1970s, collaborating with Lucas... (didn't want to say this on the HB thread)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 06, 2011, 03:16:35 AM
Mums the word!!!!!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 06, 2011, 03:25:33 AM
The secret is safe in this thread (poor Daniel Jones!)  ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 06, 2011, 03:52:05 AM
An attic does sound like one of the best places to leave tapes for a long period. As long as there isn't a hole in the roof! Cool,but not cold,dry,etc! I don't want to brag,but most of my ancient old cassettes work (& videos!) But I was always VERY careful to store them in a dry area away from heat sources,electro magnetic fields,condensation,the suns rays,blah! blah! But I know things CAN happen to the adhesives and things like that. If you get an old cassette out of a box they're often 'sticky' and,initially,they won't move,so people throw them away. The trick is to hold them by the side and tap them.or even thwack them,against you're palm a few times,then turn the cassette over and repeat the procedure a few times. Then run the cassette backwards and forwards a couple of times BEFORE playing it. If you just put the tape in,even if it plays,it can stick part way & then the tape gets chewed up.
Of course,the user blames the tape!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 06, 2011, 03:57:56 AM
I think there might be an old pair of boots in MY attic,a tv booster,a tv aerial & that's about all. Hopefully,that expensive,high gain, fm stereo radio aerial, in the corner,will be up there too,eventually.
Title: Re: Cilgwyn (19?-20?)- a prolific Welsh poster
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 06, 2011, 04:00:32 AM
 ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Hattoff on September 06, 2011, 04:01:25 AM
Of course,the user blames the tape!


That's me, that is 8)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 06, 2011, 04:09:11 AM
D**** that b***** hammer!!!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 06, 2011, 05:24:13 AM
Right....now that I have had time to go through my catalogue ;D

Restricting myself to British music for the time being AND excluding everything which is now on cd AND anything which can be downloaded from 'Unsung Composers' I appear to have:

Sir Richard Rodney Bennett: Symphony No.2
                                             Double Bass Concerto
                                             Concerto for Orchestra
                                             "Actaeon" for horn and orchestra

Sir Lennox Berkeley:   Nocturne for orchestra
                                   Windsor Variations for chamber orchestra
                                   "Signs in the Dark" for chorus and strings
                                   Four Ronsard Sonnets for tenor and orchestra
                                   Magnificat for chorus and orchestra, op.71
                                   Stabat Mater for voices and instruments

Derek Bourgeois:        Symphony No.2
                                   Tuba Concerto
                                   Symphonic Variations
                                   Dance Variations for orchestra
                                   "The Globe"-Orchestral Fantasy

Alan Bush:                 Symphony No.3 "Byron" for baritone, chorus and orchestra
                                  Variations, Nocturne and Finale on an English Sea Song for piano and orchestra
                                  Dance Overture

Arthur Butterworth:    Organ Concerto
                                   "Italian Journey" for orchestra

Francis Chagrin:          Symphony No.1

Arnold Cooke:           Symphony No.4
                                  Symphony No.5
                                  Violin Concerto
                                  Oboe Concerto

Gordon Crosse:         Symphony No.2
                                  Violin Concerto No.2
                                  Ceremony for cello and orchestra
                                 "Play Ground" for orchestra
                                 "For the unfallen" for tenor, horn and strings

Christian Darnton:     Concerto for Orchestra

Cedric Thorpe Davie: Symphony
                                 Cantata "By the River"

David Ellis:                Symphony No.1
                                 Elegy for orchestra

Peter Racine Fricker:  Symphony No.4
                                  Symphony No.5 for organ and orchestra
                                  Piano Concerto
                                  Viola Concerto
                                  Toccata for piano and orchestra
                                  "Laudi contertante" for organ and orchestra
                                  Concertante No.1 for cor anglais and strings
                                  Concertante No.4 for flute, oboe, violin and strings
                                  Three Scenes for orchestra
                                  Prelude, Elegy and Finale for strings
                                  Introitus for orchestra
                                 Oratorio "The Vision of Judgment"
                                 "Musick's Empire" for chorus and small orchestra
                                 "O longs desirs" for soprano and orchestra

John Maxwell Geddes: Symphony

Iain Hamilton:           Symphonic Variations
                                 Scottish Dances
                                 Overture "Bartholomew Fair"
                                 Overture "1912"

Anthony Hedges:     Symphony
                                Variations on a theme of Rameau for orchestra

Alun Hoddinott:         Piano Concerto No. 3
                                  Organ Concerto
                                  Folk Song Suite
                                  Night Music for orchestra
                                  "The Hawk is set free" for orchestra

Donald Hunt:             Te Deum

Maurice Jacobson:     Cantata "The Hound of Heaven"

Daniel Jones:             Symphony No.3
                                  Symphony No.10
                                  Violin Concerto
                                  Tone Poem "Cloud Messenger"
                                  Suite "Salute to Dylan Thomas"
                                  Dance Fantasy for orchestra
                                  Concert Overture
                                  Overture "Ieunctid"
                                  Oratorio "St. Peter"
                                  Cantata "Hear the Voice of the Ancient Bard"

Wilfred Josephs:        Symphony No.1
                                  Symphony No.3
                                  Symphony No.5 "Pastoral Symphony"
                                  Symphony No.7 "Winter"
                                  Aelian Dances for orchestra

Kenneth Leighton:    Piano Concerto No.1
                                 Piano Concerto No.2
                                 Concerto for viola, harp, timpani and strings
                                 Passacaglia, Chorale and Fugue for orchestra
                                 Dance Overture

Malcolm Lipkin:          Violin Concerto No.2
                                  Mosaics for chamber orchestra

Elizabeth Maconchy:  "Genesis" for orchestra
                                  "Ariadne" for soprano and orchestra
                                  Three settings of Gerard Manley Hopkins for soprano and chamber orchestra

William Mathias:         Piano Concerto No.2
                                   Concerto for harpsichord, strings and percussion
                                   Serenade for small orchestra

Nicholas Maw:           Sinfonia fopr small orchestra

John McCabe:            Violin Concerto No.2
                                  Variations on a theme of K.A. Hartmann for orchestra
                                  Harpsichord Concertante

George McIlwham:  Symphonic Poem "Cir Mhor"

Anthony Milner:       Symphony No.2
                                Oratorio "The Water and the Fire"
                                Cantata "Midway"

David Morgan:           Sinfonia da Requiem

Robin Orr:                  Symphony No.2
                                  Symphony No.3

Ian Parrott:               Cello Concerto

Alan Rawsthorne:      "Carmen Vitali" for soprano, chorus and orchestra

Franz Reizenstein:     Piano Concerto No.2
                                  Cantata "Voices of the Night"

Francis Routh:            Cello Concerto

Gerard Schurmann:    Piano Concerto

Phyllis Tate:               Secular Requiem "The Phoenix and the Turtle"

Ian Whyte:                 Tone Poem "Edinburgh"

Thomas Wilson:         Symphony No.2
                                  Concerto for orchestra
                                  Variations for orchestra
                                  Threnody for orchestra
                                  "Touchstone" for orchestra
                                  "Sequentiae Passionis" for choir and ensemble
                                  Carmina Sacra for voice, harp and strings

Ralph W. Wood:        Symphony No.3

William Wordsworth: Overture "Conflicts"
                                 

     plus a few other shorter orchestra pieces by a variety of composers.

(Amazing how much Fricker was performed back in the 1970s!!)

Oh, I DO HOPE MOST of this can be brought back to life in digital format :) :)                             
                                   
             
                             
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 06, 2011, 05:26:44 AM
If Dundonnell's treasure trove IS recoverable,that would leave only Symphonies 1,5,11 & the 'thirteenth' (In memory of John Fussell). That would be most of the cycle. No 5,if can be located (anyone got it 'out there'?) is regarded by those,'in the know',as one of his best.
Can't believe some of the titles in Dundonnell's posession. It just shows what the Beeb were capable of years ago & how far they have fallen. Thankfully,there are some signs that the newly devolved Wales,replete with law making powers,is starting to take a renewed interest in it's composers. I just hope this leads to more funding for recordings of Wales's greatest composers.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 06, 2011, 05:27:52 AM
Dundonnell. Is that all?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That list took a bit of scrolling.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 06, 2011, 05:28:18 AM
Apologies if I have included anything which IS on cd or for any spelling mistakes ;D

It took a hell of a long time to write all this ;D

If anyone thinks the post should go elsewhere then please say :)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 06, 2011, 05:29:09 AM
Dundonnell. Is that all?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Well I haven't done the non-British stuff yet ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 06, 2011, 05:30:00 AM
Chorus.


He's got 'em on the list — he's got 'em on the list;
And they'll none of 'em be missed — they'll none of 'em be missed.

But that last line isn't true, of course. Wow!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 06, 2011, 05:30:18 AM
It doesn't bother me,but I suppose there is a possibility that more people might be able to see this mind boggling list,somewhere else? The DJ items,excepted.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Lethevich on September 06, 2011, 05:30:34 AM
Good lord, I wish I was alive during such a time when orchestras actually widely performed music of this kind, and it was broadcast to boot :(

I began a list of the most interesting-looking items, but it looked like turning out almost as long as the original list.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 06, 2011, 05:31:47 AM
You've got,(gulp) non British s-stuff as well?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 06, 2011, 05:33:23 AM
You.ve got,(gulp) non British s-stuff as well?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The man's a completist par excellence, cilgwyn. It's an open secret.  ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 06, 2011, 05:34:08 AM
You've got,(gulp) non British s-stuff as well?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh yes! ;D ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Albion on September 06, 2011, 05:49:19 AM
Fabulous list, Colin - your reel-to-reel was probably draining the National Grid at the time.

 :o
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 06, 2011, 05:54:18 AM
Fabulous list, Colin - your reel-to-reel was probably draining the National Grid at the time.

 :o


 ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 06, 2011, 06:09:28 AM
To give you the history......

Taping started in April 1973 when I bought a reel-to-reel machine; my father got hold of another one. Each week I would go through the Radio Times and identify music i wanted to tape. My father had retired by then and so he taped some of the music for me.

I, on the other hand, was a young school teacher. God help me........but I used to have the tape machine and the radio at the back of my classroom and would periodically set the recording up while the class was working on something or other :o ;D  Ah...those were the days :) :)

The overwhelming majority of the tapes are still in their very solid, hard plastic boxes which open out to reveal the tape inside. They were kept in huge cardboard boxes in a pretty dry environment. They have not been played for years. They LOOK ok.........but that means nothing, I realise :-\

Yes...Johan, as you know ;D I am a completist but I also see myself as a collector, with a collector's obsession/mania. I don't usually possess more than a couple of versions of the great classic musical masterpieces because I have always wanted to hear more and more music which was new to me. Admittedly, orchestral and choral music and, admittedly, from the mid-19th century onwards and, admittedly, of a certain cast. No apologies needed or required, I know ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 06, 2011, 06:24:45 AM
I, on the other hand, was a young school teacher. God help me........but I used to have the tape machine and the radio at the back of my classroom and would periodically set the recording up while the class was working on something or other :o ;D  Ah...those were the days :) :)


What a man! Marvellous story.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Albion on September 06, 2011, 06:25:32 AM
It just shows what the Beeb were capable of years ago & how far they have fallen.

Good lord, I wish I was alive during such a time when orchestras actually widely performed music of this kind, and it was broadcast to boot :(

I began a list of the most interesting-looking items, but it looked like turning out almost as long as the original list.

Those - were - the - days my friend
We thought they'd never end ...

 :D


... and then they did.

 :'(
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 06, 2011, 06:31:06 AM
I can remember doing that,with the old ball point pen. Going throught the pages of Radio 3 & circling items that interested me. Then one day,the interesting items seemed to dry up & the Radio Times was just full of Celeb and soap gossip.
The R3 schedules do seem to have livened up a little,lately,so there is hope. Of course,these days,allot of the more esoteric stuff seems to get released on cd,so there's not the same urgency to recording off air repertory as there used to be.
Nevertheless,my cassette deck has been relatively busy over the last couple of weeks,saving me money on a Rossini opera,Mahler & Bruckner symphonies. I've even rewarded it buy buying a couple of pre recorded box sets from a very nice,honest seller on ebay! He must thank god for anoraks like me who still use these things.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 06, 2011, 06:33:32 AM
That reminds me. I've got some Mary Hopkin cds in a box,somewhere,and singing,appropriately for this column,in Welsh. She's still very popular here in Wales.
A very pretty voice.
Anyway,the moral of this story is,it does pay,sometimes at least,to be a hoarder.
By the way,I totally agree with you,'Lethe'!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 06, 2011, 06:37:23 AM
Looking at my own list again....

I am really excited at the prospect of hopefully hearing Fricker's "The Vision of Judgment" and Jacobson's "The Hound of Heaven" -two choral works which Rob Barnett on Musicweb has, I think, often mentioned as among the British choral works most in need of revival.

I can't get over how much Fricker and Cooke was played back in the 1970's :o Two composers who have virtually(or, in the case of Fricker, completely) disappeared from the musical firmament :( >:( I don't think ANY Fricker has been recorded in decades?
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 06, 2011, 06:42:54 AM
Those two works Do get talked about quite allot
Fricker's Symphony No 5 for organ & orchestra was once 'released' on the pirate Aries label. I remember thinking about buying it. At the time I was unaware that Aries Lps were pirated. I remember Michael G Thomas,who had ads in Gramophone,sold them. This is probably the same performance!
I'm going to have to print you're list of recordings out & look some of these works (and composers) up. There are few I haven't heard of.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Lethevich on September 06, 2011, 06:50:42 AM
I don't think ANY Fricker has been recorded in decades?

Indeed - aside from the Simpson/Fricker/Orr disc, if it wasn't for the enlightened advocacy of Susanne Stanzeleit recording two of his violin sonatas, I'd never have heard of the fellow.

Incidentely, I highly recommend the twofer licence which reissues those volumes: link (http://www.amazon.co.uk/English-Violin-Sonatas-Susanne-Stanzeleit/dp/B000SR0TJC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1315324263&sr=8-2)

Edit: I forgot how mad that review on Amazon made me when I first read it. It's amazing how signally wrong on every point the guy was.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 06, 2011, 06:53:04 AM
I have an off air cassette of his 3rd symphony. It impressed me. Very exciting. Severe,but,in it's own way,very approachable.
If you like Jones,I think Fricker is a composer you are going to like,although Daniel Jones is more romantically inclined.
Frickers strikes me as a tougher nut!!!
Actually,I did have his First on an old Lp.
I have read allot of posts from people,on various,forums,over the years,grumbling about the absence of Fricker recordings.
I will have a look at that Amazon review. If they annoy me I usually end up buying the d*** thing!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 06, 2011, 07:34:43 AM
(With apologies to the shade of Daniel Jones! Sure he wouldn't mind ;D)

I thought about starting a thread about Fricker two years ago but never got round to it :(

I do think that he now has claim to being one of the two most scandalously neglected of mid-20th century British composers(along with Iain Hamilton)-certainly in terms of his representation on disc.

Yet the remarkable thing is that in Hugh Wood's chapter on 'English(sic) Contemporary Music' in the famous "European Music in the Twentieth Century"(Pelican, 1958/1961) Humphrey Searle, Fricker and Hamilton alone occupy a quarter of the space and are clearly regarded as among the most important figures just behind Britten, Tippett, Berkeley and Rawsthorne(Bliss, Walton, Malcolm Arnold are dismissed with contempt!). Wood talked with evident huge admiration of the 'brooding intensity', 'the dark commanding power', the 'integrity' and 'purpose' of these composers.

Ok....they are not 'easy' in the way that some composers who have come back into fashion are. I love the music of, say, Richard Arnell but its romanticism is of a much more accesible sort. There is-or should be-a place for both.

We should be grateful at least to CPO for recording all the Searle symphonies. I have difficulties with Nos. 3-5 which are exceedingly 'tough' but Nos. 1 and 2 are tremendous pieces in my opinion.

Out of date, I know, but still useful:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/fricker/index.htm
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 06, 2011, 07:36:22 AM
Oh.....

I have just discovered that I have Robin Orr's Symphony No.2 and Symphony No.3 on tape as well :)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 06, 2011, 07:41:42 AM
His Symphony No. 1 is excellent!...  :o
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 06, 2011, 07:49:08 AM
I've got an off air tape of an Orr symphony,but where is it?!!!!
Annoying! I'm going to have to write to the BBC about Daniel Jones symphonies,as soon as I have the time. The more the merrier. Although,I doubt if they will cobble together a performance specifically for me.
I also need to write to Morrisons about that snapped off saucepan handle!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 06, 2011, 07:50:11 AM
His Symphony No. 1 is excellent!...  :o

Great opening to that symphony :) Grim, tragic, slow-moving processional with a drum beat underpinning..... :)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Lethevich on September 06, 2011, 07:53:26 AM
Annoying! I'm going to have to write to the BBC about Daniel Jones symphonies,as soon as I have the time. The more the merrier. Although,I doubt if they will cobble together a performance specifically for me.

Play up the Welsh thing - they have to at least pretend to be representative.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 06, 2011, 07:54:44 AM
I have two performances, courtesy of John Whitmore - Alexander Gibson and Jorge Mester. I prefer the latter (if I remember correctly), it's quicker, more urgent.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 06, 2011, 08:06:37 AM
It's definately going to be a choice between that Saucepan handle or Daniel Jones.
A tough one this.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Hattoff on September 06, 2011, 08:27:11 AM
Go for the saucepan bach :)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 06, 2011, 09:22:51 AM
Actually,I think I'll go for a sospan fawr.
With a better handle!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Lilas Pastia on September 06, 2011, 07:07:35 PM
Ciel ! (Egad !)

Colin, you are to be commended for preternaturally sensing these riches at the time, then carefully preserving them and, ultimately bestowing your great country's musical heritage to us   0:) :D ;)  0:)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 07, 2011, 02:04:34 AM
Marvellous! Now if someone could find all the 'wiped' 'Ryan a Ronnie' tv shows (dubbed the Welsh Morecambe & Wise and very popular in 70's Wales) I would be in my seventh heaven.
Have a look in you're shed too,Dundonnell, & under the bed! You never know,there might be some music there too!!!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 07, 2011, 03:18:14 AM
Ciel ! (Egad !)

Colin, you are to be commended for preternaturally sensing these riches at the time, then carefully preserving them and, ultimately bestowing your great country's musical heritage to us   0:) :D ;)  0:)

Well that's kind of you to say so....but let's keep the "carefully preserving" until we can be sure the tapes still play ok :-\
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 07, 2011, 03:20:51 AM
Marvellous! Now if someone could find all the 'wiped' 'Ryan a Ronnie' tv shows (dubbed the Welsh Morecambe & Wise and very popular in 70's Wales) I would be in my seventh heaven.
Have a look in you're shed too,Dundonnell, & under the bed! You never know,there might be some music there too!!!

I have now gone through the non-British music on the tapes to see what is there. Not so much interesting music, I am afraid. Obviously I was taping the BBC orchestras who-in the 1970's-were doing a lot of British music.

I shall however post a list of the non-British stuff in the 'Unsung Composers' thread.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 07, 2011, 05:03:46 AM
So now I have a Daniel Jones Avatar.Well,I believe that's what you call them,anyway.Actually,it was a toss between Tournemire and Daniel Jones,but Daniel Jones won. Mind you,Tournemire might get a look in at some point. I did try a bit of 'paint' (?) software on DJ to edit out the Lyrita 'artwork',but he ended up bald,which would have looked bit daft,wouldn't it? So,I just cut more of the edges off the photo. A bald Daniel Jones? Hm? The man appears to have had a fine head of hair. Nearly,as impressive as his symphonies! In fact,when he visited his Barber,in Swansea,there would have probably been enough left on the floor of the shop, for me!

I've got chamber music by Hovhaness tinkling away in the background,and VERY nice it is too. All I need is a stick of incense,some candles,a yoga mat and a week in a Tibetan monastery. Lobsang Rampa,eat your heart out!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 07, 2011, 05:26:10 AM
He was a great friend of Dylan Thomas.

I wonder if he shared his tastes? ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 07, 2011, 06:12:35 AM
He was a great friend of Dylan Thomas.

I wonder if he shared his tastes? ;D


He lived to be 81. Need I say more? It IS funny, though, that I have 'known' Daniel Jones for a very very long time, because I like(d) the poetry of Dylan Thomas. I remember one particular fact about their relationship: that Thomas was in awe of his friend composing orchestral music, how it was possible to hear everything in your head and write that down in a score.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 07, 2011, 06:32:03 AM
He must have had stamina,or willpower,if he could keep up with his friend,Dylan! And Wales is so full of pubs. Mind you,some people are just lucky. I remember one bloke where I used to live who was always so pickled with drink he could barely speak. He lived till he was very old. When they were filming Moby Dick in Lower town Fishguard Gregory Peck came to the village. He introduced himself to him & was a bit miffed to discover he didn't know who the b***** h*** Gregory Peck was. I remember them filming 'Under Milk Wood there'. The film,which was terrible,not the play. They built the ships on top of the houses!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 07, 2011, 06:39:00 AM
The stories that come out! Btw, did you ever look more closely at the heading of post #111 here, cilgwyn?  ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 07, 2011, 06:39:51 AM
A number of slim books were published,I think by the University of Wales Press,about Welsh composers. One of them was about Daniel Jones. They were quite good,but not brilliant. They may have been brought back into print. I shall have to look at the UOW website. They used to,(probably still do),have them in all the libraries,here.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 07, 2011, 06:54:20 AM
Uh-oh! Has that been there all the time? I remember being aware of something unusual!!! You had me worried,actually,I thought I'd insulted someone,or,maybe one of Gregory Peck's estate was posting here.
This sort of thing usually happens in the pub! Like when they moved the clock.
I do hope,you're not dropping a hint,are you? I could always join MI on the Koechlin thread!!!!
He could do with some company,now Daniel Jones is getting more popular!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 07, 2011, 07:02:46 AM
I'm off!!!!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 07, 2011, 07:10:10 AM
Uh-oh! Has that been there all the time? I remember being aware of something unusual!!! You had me worried,actually,I thought I'd insulted someone,or,maybe one of Gregory Peck's estate was posting here.
This sort of thing usually happens in the pub! Like when they moved the clock.
I do hope,you're not dropping a hint,are you? I could always join MI on the Koechlin thread!!!!
He could do with some company,now Daniel Jones is getting more popular!


No, this is your pub now. And MI is far more prolific than you... !
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 07, 2011, 07:24:29 AM
He is? Actually,this is the kind of pub I like. No loud music,tv's,noisy kids,people eating food. Just 'conversation & a bit of banter,for good measure.
Incidentally,my 'locals' currently being refurbished. I'm just hoping for the best. No comfy sofa's,just traditional,hard,(but comfy),wooden,bar room furniture and a big,long,wooden bar to steer me by! The kind of thing Dylan Thomas would have recognised. Or possibly not,in his inebriated state!
You've got to have hope.

NB: I'm going to have to get rid of that obscure looking man in the photo.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 07, 2011, 07:25:40 AM
He could be Kelly,from the Isle of Man?
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 07, 2011, 07:43:58 AM
Are you referring to Brian's Variations, by any chance?  ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 07, 2011, 09:45:03 AM
My Daniel Jones Avatar (?) is back at last.
Thank goodness it wasn't Kirk Douglas?
Or Mae West? (in Pemrokeshire?!!!)
Mae West in Moby Dick?
I don't even want to think about it!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 07, 2011, 11:14:39 AM
I'm 'getting the hang' of Daniel Jones. I have his 2nd and 4th on my mp3 player and have already listened to them several times. He's a fine composer.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 07, 2011, 11:17:04 AM
I think I might have started something there,then!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 07, 2011, 11:22:07 AM
Daniel Jones is a rather intellectual composer, like Robert Simpson. But the latter is grander and more impersonal, all process and development. I can sense the human being more in Daniel Jones' music, because of its lyricism.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 07, 2011, 11:33:24 AM
There are some similarities,aren't there? Incidentally,Robert Simpson & Havergal Brian are,for obvious reasons,quite 'bound up' together,in certain ways. Yet,I haven't seen you mention Simpson's work all that much. Not wanting to go off topic too much,but do you like his music at all? Do you have any cds of his symphonies or other music? I used to have the Lp of his 3rd,years ago,the 5th & 9th. But that's about all. I must admit I haven't gone back to the music since, or tried to listen to more, & you're description of his music does seem to hit the nail right on the head.
Oops! I forgot this was a Daniel Jones thread!
Simpson's 9th,in particular,is an extroadinary piece of music,but there is something rather cold and calculating about it.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 07, 2011, 11:38:04 AM
I have all of Simpson's symphonies, and I know almost all of them. I think the Ninth is a masterpiece. I like his structural mastery and powerful intellect. But there is a certain coldness to his music I don't like, something 'behind glass'. I am often reminded of a laboratory. No Sussex Downs for Robert, but the cosmos and supernovae!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 07, 2011, 11:52:44 AM
Yes,it's music for the mind (I don't like to use intellect for me,but it does seem aimed at that) rather than the heart or soul. It is,obviously, useful to bear his interest in astronomy in mind,while listening to his music. His music certainly brings up images of pulsars,red dwarfs,and deep space & in that respect it is very powerful music. And space is cold,isn't it? But there's also allot intense heat (our sun,giant planets,stars). I think he was interested in other aspects of science too,but I'm not sure what they were.
I do admire the man though & I once,embarassingly,wrote a very,very enthusiastic letter to him,not realising he was very ill & had been incapacitated by a stroke. To my suprise & relief I received a very nice & understanding letter from his wife!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 07, 2011, 12:57:22 PM
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,6863.0.html

Another thread I started back in 2008 ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 07, 2011, 01:06:59 PM
Hint! Hint! It needs it though,only four pages! If I get round to buying some more Simpson I will have to add to that. Not sure about buying the whole lot though. Daniel Jones is warmer.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 08, 2011, 06:44:45 AM
(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/5507/davidwynne1.jpg)
By dinasman (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/dinasman) at 2011-09-08
David Wynne (1900-1983) Another,prolific, Welsh composer worthy of re-evaluation?

This is the David Wynne, (Parrott & Harries) cd I mentioned. David Wynne (1900-1983) is another prolific & very intriguing sounding Welsh composer. Don't know too much about David Harris,so I will have to look him up. As to Ian Parrott.My father met him on a train,once,back in the days when they had compartments! I think I've met one or two muggers on trains & that's about all. They did give me their autograph though,fair play.
This cd cover reminds me of some of the original Lyrita cd covers. I quite like it in a way,it probably suits the music. I hope there are some photos of the composers inside,although,I know what Ian Parrott looks like.
There is a review of this cd on Musicweb.

NB: Had a listen to some excerpts. These are certainly spiky,angular,rugged sounding works,but they are allot easier to listen to than the Musicweb reviewer makes out. Tough but rewarding.....maybe? It's on my 'list' now,anyway. Nevertheless,much as I like chamber & instrumental music these days,I can't deny it's Wynne's orchestral music that I would most like to hear.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Lilas Pastia on September 08, 2011, 05:50:37 PM
I have downloaded 2 and 12, as well as the cello concerto. So far I'm impressed by Jones the symphonist (the Lyrita discs), but even more by the chamber music composer (his quartets - a major 20th century corpus). Like most such collections (Bartok, Villa-Lobos, DSCH, Milhaud) they exhibit and inhabit a collective, uniquely dense, coherent world. Symphonies (from any composer) tend to shoot and score (or miss) by aiming at wildly different targets.

Jones' impeacheable honesty as a musician gives me high hopes for these works (symph 2, 12, CC), but I won't be disappointed if they are merely 'very good'  :D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 09, 2011, 12:20:51 AM
Hopefully,thanks to Dundonnells inspirational foresight,we may eventually get to hear Symphonies 3,12 &, judging by his music archive equivalent of Sutton Hoo,quite a bit more! Incidentally,if anyone happens to chance on this thread who does,or thinks they may have off air tapes of Daniel Jones's Symphonies 1,5,11 & '13',or some David Wynne,please let me know,or,just post the information on this thread! Other rare,unavailable works by Welsh composers would be equally welcome.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 09, 2011, 03:39:42 AM
Hopefully,thanks to Dundonnells inspirational foresight,we may eventually get to hear Symphonies 3,12 &, judging by his music archive equivalent of Sutton Hoo,quite a bit more! Incidentally,if anyone happens to chance on this thread who does,or thinks they may have off air tapes of Daniel Jones's Symphonies 1,5,11 & '13',or some David Wynne,please let me know,or,just post the information on this thread! Other rare,unavailable works by Welsh composers would be equally welcome.

That's a nice analogy ;D I used to study the Sutton Hoo discovery with my pupils in my previous incarnation ;D

....and, just as the Sutton Hoo artefacts required careful and loving cleaning to restore them to their full glory, my tapes may require the same ;D.........but if I DO have access to a sound studio then they should get the best possible chance :)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 09, 2011, 05:05:20 AM
That's a nice analogy ;D I used to study the Sutton Hoo discovery with my pupils in my previous incarnation ;D


Well - previous?! With all those reel-to-reel tape recorders whirring in the back of the class, recording every concert under the sun?  ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 09, 2011, 05:50:33 AM
Oh..I did teach the pupils as well as recording the music, Johan ;D ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 09, 2011, 04:08:15 PM
Since you have mentioned some other Welsh composers, cilgwyn, do you happen to know if David Morgan was Welsh?

He is one of the most intriguing figures in British music and a bit of a mystery.

http://www.musiccentre.ca/apps/index.cfm?fuseaction=composer.FA_dsp_biography&authpeopleid=176&by=M

http://members2.boardhost.com/MusicWebUK/msg/1196867194.html

http://landofllostcontent.blogspot.com/2010/03/david-morgan-violin-concerto.html
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 10, 2011, 02:21:57 AM
Thank you,Dundonnell. I clicked on the links & had a 'google' around,but can't find any evidence yet,that he was Welsh. Although,the surname certainly sounds as if he might have some Welsh blood. (There are quite allot of Morgans here!) Anyway,I'm not usually that keen on Violin Concerto's. Mendelssohn & Brahm's efforts (and Havergal Brian's,are about as far as I go),but I liked the samples I heard so much I ordered it from the same seller I bought my Henry Cowell cd's from.
The blogger on the Land of Lost content rates this very highly as do all the people who left comments on the Music Web message board. Indeed,the LOLC blogger rates this as the best neglected Violin Concerto (sorry HB!) & the reviews on Musicweb & Amazon are,certainly, all very enthusiastic. In fact,the other pieces,especially,the Fricker all sound very intriguing & I definately liked what I heard. But as you know,samples AREN'T enough. I have put myself on a cd budget,but this one was,unfortunately for my pocket,far too tempting.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 10, 2011, 02:31:37 AM
(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/387/61bkqk2wpllss500xp.jpg)
By dinasman (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/dinasman) at 2011-09-10

This is the cd. Heck,I'm getting good at this!
I hope!!!
His orchestral piece,'Contrasts' is supposed to be very good too. Unfortunately,it's coupled with some other things that I don't want so much (on another Lyrita cd).
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 10, 2011, 02:33:53 AM
You are. And thanks for all the info, Colin and cilgwyn!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 10, 2011, 03:06:36 AM
http://www.mediafire.com/?gwsteelf843vw# (http://www.mediafire.com/?gwsteelf843vw#)

CLICK ME!!!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 10, 2011, 03:24:47 AM
Just did...  :)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 10, 2011, 04:14:34 AM
Heavens!

I didn't realise that I might spark such interest ;D

Well, I have Morgan's Sinfonia da Requiem on tape...so.....IF we can get the transfers effected you will be able to hear that too :) :)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 10, 2011, 09:29:53 AM
Thank you,Dundonnell,I look forward to that.
Regarding David Morgan being a bit of an enigma. He certainly is. Allot of fruitless googling around the internet got me just about sod all. The music,yes,but not the man!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 11, 2011, 08:17:24 AM
(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6444/9671a.jpg)
By dinasman (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/dinasman) at 2011-09-11

Daniel Jones was a Writer as well!

'My Friend Dylan Thomas' 1977 (Littlehampton Book Services Ltd Illustrated Edition)
'A Prospect of the Sea' 1955  A Compilation of Thomas's prose,edited by Jones
'Dylan Thomas-the poems' 1971 ed.by Daniel Jones
He also edited the text of the first published version of 'Under Milk Wood'. In case anyone DOESN'T know,Dylan Thomas and Daniel Jones were childhood friends. They first met on the way to Swansea Grammar School,an encounter which is described in Thomas's short story 'The Fight'. After this encounter,Dylan Thomas was a frequent visitor to the Jones family home,at Warmley in Sketty,where they wrote poetry,played music and formed their own broadcasting company!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 11, 2011, 09:27:44 AM
I knew all that, but I didn't know that nice cover with the picture! I listened to 2 and 4 again today. The 4th is rising in my estimation - beautiful piece. Next time I'll listen to 4 and 6. Daniel Jones is a good composer, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 12, 2011, 02:44:46 AM
I think the Dylan Thomas connection is probably the best known thing about him,these days. I just think that,seeing that Dylan Thomas is a bit of a cult figure,emphasising the Dylan Thomas connection might encourage some people who don't know his music ) outside  the radio play) to 'dig out' some of his serious concert music. There are always people who just browse by these forums,even if they don't actually post & they might just click on this thread. Knowing that one of his best childhood friends and a character in one of his stories actually composed symphonies and string quartets might just be an incentive to buy one of those Lyrita cds or download those string quartets.
Sadly,the University of Wales press booklet I mentioned is out of print,as are all the others in the series,tut! tut! I shall have to write to them!
I'm glad you are enjoying Daniel Jones symphonies.I actually,prefer Daniel Jones to Grace Williams. I do like & admire some of her music,but find Daniel Jones warmer & more multi layered. Grace Williams music is a little too severe for me. I need more warmth,
Incidentally,I listened to the two Nimbus cds of William Mathias orchestral music last night. I like most  of his music,but some times it can be a little bland;but the symphonies are fantastic,so full of energy,particularly No's 1 and 3 (but I like them all). I play these allot and rate them VERY highly. In fact,they are my favourite Welsh symphonies after those of Jones! The Nimbus performances and recordings are superb & as an introduction to Mathias at his very best I would actually rate them above the Lyrita (orchestral) cds!!!! Such a pity Mathias died before his time (as they say) and that he was unable to record more of his music for Nimbus (he would have conducted the items on the second cd).
Anyway,I'd better stop here,otherwise Dundonnell will be giving me a link to the Mathias thread (I believe there is one).
And so he should!
Who knows,maybe there'll be a David Wynne thread here,one day,as well!

NB: As far as I can make out,there isn't a William Mathias thread???????
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 12, 2011, 11:10:55 AM
No, there isn't ;D

There is one for Alun Hoddinott....which I started(surprise, surprise ;D) but not Mathias.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 12, 2011, 01:05:13 PM
An opening for me at last. And I was looking Laszlo Lajtha!!! All I need now is a suitable thread title,eg: 'Mathias's Mountain' (?),'Mathias's Mall (actually,I think Johan's done that one?),'Mathias's Mates','Mathias's Meadow','Mathias's Mews','Mathias's Marvels','Mathias's Maelstrom','Mathias's Mecca','Mathias's Motorway','Mathias's Mellee (maybe not!),'Mathias's Molotov','Mathias's Malteser','Mathias's Marmite',or what about 'Mathias's Margarine'?
Actually,come to think of it,maybe that's why there isn't a Mathias thread?

NB: What about,just 'William Mathias'? Now that sounds original!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 12, 2011, 01:12:35 PM
An opening for me at last. And I was looking Laszlo Lajtha!!! All I need now is a suitable thread title,eg: 'Mathias's Mountain' (?),'Mathias's Mall (actually,I think Johan's done that one?),'Mathias's Mates','Mathias's Meadow','Mathias's Mews','Mathias's Marvels','Mathias's Maelstrom','Mathias's Mecca','Mathias's Motorway','Mathias's Mellee (maybe not!),'Mathias's Molotov','Mathias's Malteser','Mathias's Marmite',or what about 'Mathias's Margarine'?
Actually,come to think of it,maybe that's why there isn't a Mathias thread?

NB: What about,just 'William Mathias'? Now that sounds original!


You may use it...
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 12, 2011, 01:26:06 PM
It is the best one. Sorry,William!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 12, 2011, 01:34:07 PM
It will be the most-frequented mall on GMG.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 12, 2011, 02:36:28 PM
That's if I launch it! If I do it will be a first,for me. At least on this forum!!!Mathias has got some admirers,I gather,although I get the feeling that his music is generally regarded as well crafted,maybe a little underrated,but not that deep. Having said that,cds of his music usually get good reviews,indeed,some VERY good, & I must say out of all the cds I have heard of his music,the Nimbus cds of his symphonies have impressed me the most. He really COULD orchestrate & I find some of the music on these two cds,quite exciting. (Although,with respect to some of the recent posts on the Havergal Brian thread,regarding Brians orchestration,maybe as a humble listener,I'd better not get into that,should I?) Maybe,Mathias the symphonist,isn't,ultimately, quite as deep or multi layered as Daniel Jones,but this is music that is full of colour,energy,drama and the Welsh soul.
After listening to those Nimbus cds I wish to goodness he could have lived long enough to write some more.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 12, 2011, 02:51:21 PM
(Extracted from my cd catalogue):

William Mathias:     


Symphony No.1; and Daniel Jones: Symphony No.6: Royal Philharmonic Orchestra(Sir Charles Groves)

Symphony No.1; and Symphony No.2(Summer Music): B.B.C. Welsh Symphony Orchestra(the composer)

Symphony No.3; Oboe Concerto*; "Helios"; and "Requiescat": David Cowley(oboe)* with the B.B.C.Welsh Symphony Orchestra(Grant Llewellyn)

Sinfonietta++; Invocation and Dance*; “Laudi”+; “Vistas”+; Prelude, Aria and Finale for String Orchestra**; Divertimento for String Orchestra**; and Dance Overture*:London
                 Symphony Orchestra*,New Philharmonia Orchestra+, English Chamber Orchestra**(David Atherton) and the National Youth Orchestra of Wales(Arthur Davison)++

Piano Concerto No.3*; Clarinet Concerto**; and Harp Concerto+:Peter Katin(piano)*, Gervase de Peyer(clarinet)**, Osian Ellis(harp)+, the London Symphony Orchestra*+ and
                    the New Philharmonia Orchestra**(David Atherton)   

Horn Concerto for horn, strings and timpani*+; Songs of William Blake for baritone**, celeste++, harp***, piano+++ and strings; Intrada for small orchestra; “Threnos” for string
           Orchestra; and “Hobed o Hilion” for baritone and strings**: David Pyatt(horn)*, Jeremy Huw Williams(baritone)**, Graham Bradley(timpani)+, Helen
                     Davies(celeste)++, Elinor Bennett(harp)***, John Gibbons(piano)+++ and the Welsh Chamber Orchestra(Anthony Hose)

"Lux Aeterna": London Symphony Orchestra(Sir David Willcocks)

 "This Worlde's Joie"*; "Ave Rex", A Carol Sequence+; and Elegy for a Prince**: Janet Price(soprano)*, Kenneth Bowen(tenor)*, Michael Rippon(baritone)*, Sir Geraint Evans
                     (bass-baritone)**, the New Philharmonia Orchestra*+(Sir David Willcocks* and David Atherton+) and the London Symphony Orchestra(David Atherton)**

Celtic Dances: National Youth Orchestra of Wales(Arthur Davison)

I will move this to the Mathias thread when it goes up here ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Mirror Image on September 12, 2011, 03:05:19 PM
Hey cilgwyn, what part of Wales are you from? Do you speak Welsh? This seems like a very difficult language to learn.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 12, 2011, 03:15:18 PM
Actually,Carmarthenshire,Pembrokeshire and Ceredigion!!!! My Father's first language is Welsh,but my Mother is English,although she was brought up in Wales,so unfortunately I don't speak Welsh,although I can get the gist of a conversation,pronounce it,know allot of Welsh words and a few Welsh songs (great when you're drunk!)
Regarding you're Mathias cds Dundonnell. You make my shelves look empty!
Incidentally,I've just seen the time!!!!!! I'm off to bed.
Nos da!!!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 12, 2011, 03:17:20 PM
Nos da!!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Mirror Image on September 12, 2011, 03:22:18 PM
Actually,Carmarthenshire,Pembrokeshire and Ceredigion!!!! My Father's first language is Welsh,but my Mother is English,although she was brought up in Wales,so unfortunately I don't speak Welsh,although I can get the gist of a conversation,pronounce it,know allot of Welsh words and a few Welsh songs (great when you're drunk!)

Awesome! I would love to visit Wales one day as I have Welsh ancestry.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 13, 2011, 03:14:11 AM
Actually,I think I went a little over the top,last night, in my praising of the Mathias symphonies,ie !"full of...the Welsh soul"! Mathias's music isn't that deep. But the quiet moments are soulful,which is nearly as good!!!!
I DO like this music though & I think it's sincere. Mathias's orchestration reminds me of Martinu at times. It's like a richly coloured stained glass window in sound,but unlike Martinu or Daniel Jones,while it's often very beautiful or even exciting to look at,if you pick away at the surface,there's not so much to find. That's not to say Mathias is shallow,but it strikes me that Daniel Jones gives you allot more to think about.
Having said all that,I do think that the challenges of writing a symphony do seem to have inspired Mathias to dig a little deeper into his psyche than usual. Behind his usual,seemingly effortless  facility for colour and professional note spinning,there is a sense of atmosphere and feeling,which is so often missing from his work (much as I like most of it).
With all their faults,as someone who considers himself Welsh (well I was born here!) I do feel I can identify with these works.
But a Welsh Martinu,he isn't!

Incidentally,it's nice to see Naxos taking an interest in Mathias,with their cd of Violin Sonatas. I see Andrew Clements,the 'Guardian critic,has actually given it a very good review. I think this one's going on my list. Wouldn't it be great if Naxos were to give us some Daniel Jones!





Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 13, 2011, 05:46:42 AM
So...does this mean that you are not starting a Mathias thread after all? ;D ;D

I don't really like comparing composers. I have found that it tends to lead to somewhat futile argument on here because so much depends to a substantial degree on personal taste.

Daniel Jones is undoubtedly a genuine 'symphonist' in the sense that his thirteen symphonies are the essential core of his musical output. They demonstrate development of a 'Jones style' over time.

Mathias's three are only part of a more varied musical output. I think that they are fine works and I enjoy them immensely but they are not 'great symphonies' (whatever that means!). I would put Mathias into the Second Division of British Composers, albeit fairly high up in the order within that division ;D I think that my favourite Mathias works are probably the shorter orchestral pieces 'Helios', 'Laudi', 'Vistas' and 'Requiescat'.

As for interesting Naxos........ We are back into what motivates record companies to give some composers a go and not others :) Naxos turned down the chance to record the music of Richard Arnell and Dutton took on that role with considerable success. Naxos has recorded seemingly almost everything William Alwyn ever composed. They are working through Bax and may now have started on John Ireland. Apart from the Violin Concerto they haven't even started on Edmund Rubbra. I would guess that it will take them a long time to get round to Welsh composers :(
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 13, 2011, 05:48:50 AM
So...does this mean that you are not starting a Mathias thread after all? ;D ;D


The 'mall' seems to have turned into 'small'.  :o
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 13, 2011, 07:37:13 AM
The fact that they have brought out a cd of Mathias Violin Sonatas does inspire a degree of hope. If it sells reasonably well,they might be encouraged to explore further. Although,Mathias strikes me as the kind of accessible face of 20thc music,the kind of repertory that the average music lover is going to buy. Although,having said that,Mathias isn't exactly Karl Jenkins,is he,(thank goodness)? Daniel Jones would be more like unproven territory,a risk factor,and there doesn't seem to be anything much,in his output,with the same populistic appeal. So,maybe not!
As to comparisons. I don't like them either,and I know what you mean about those kind of arguments,having visited enough classical music message boards. I think I was sort of thinking out loud,if you'll pardon the expression. Whether we agree with such comparisons or not,I think we all tend to make them,to some degee.( Which is why we tend to favour one composer over another) In my defence,I wasn't actually disparaging Mathias's contribution to the symphonic canon,at all. Far from that,I feel I was defending him. Mathias obviously wasn't terribly interested in the symphony,(a fact that is underlined by the seventeen year gap between his first and second efforts in the form),he also seems to have been more interested in colour and atmosphere than metres or form & in that sense Daniel Jones was the more cerebral of the two composers. Nothing wrong with that! They're just two different people with very different preoccupations and,in my humble opinion,it is to Mathias's credit as a composer and musician,that his few efforts in the form are as successful as they are (although,if I had to nit pick,No 2,is probably the weakest of the three!!!). Yet,having lived all my life in this country,I do find these works curiously gripping. There is a Welshness to these works,a feeling for history and national identity,which is hard to explain. Maybe,if I was English (or French or American?) I would be more inclined to focus on their faults or even,dismiss them as second rate. Music for the heart and soul,perhaps. But whats wrong with that?

Ok,I'm off for a lie down after typing all that! (Pizzetti's Messa di Requiem.perhaps?)

NB: A Mathias thread will take some planning,not being a 'pro',like Dundonnell!!!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 13, 2011, 02:10:26 PM
Don't worry...I know that you weren't trying to disparage Mathias ;D

You might be interested in this quotation from Mark Morris's invaluable 'The Pimlico Dictionary of Twentieth Century Composers'( a book I often quote from even though I don't always agree with the author-particularly in his dislike of Robert Simpson!):

"Of the four main composers Wales has produced to date(the other three being Alun Hoddinott, Daniel Jones and Grace Williams) William Mathias is probably the best known but ultimately, with the exception of his church music, the least interesting. This is partly because his prolific idiom was inclined to be derivative and sometimes dated, and partly because of his inclination towards superficiality rather than substance. In particular, his rather inflexible rhythmic invention failed to illuminate his other areas of technical command".

The composer Mathias most reminds me of is actually early Michael Tippett. There is a brightness about the textures of Mathias's music, even when he is writing serious-minded music which you certainly don't find in that much more difficult composer Alun Hoddinott ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 13, 2011, 02:40:22 PM
I'm going to have to start a Mathias thread,aren't I?!!!! :o :o :o
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 13, 2011, 03:03:21 PM
British composers who do not appear to have their own threads include:

Stanley Bate
Sir Richard Rodney Bennett
Rutland Boughton
Geoffrey Bush
Peter Racine Fricker
John Gardner
Cecil Armstrong Gibbs
Iain Hamilton
Gordon Jacob
William Mathias
Anthony Milner
Robin Orr
Bernard Stevens
Robert Still


............so, work to be done ;D ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 14, 2011, 07:05:46 AM
Rutland Boughton might be worth a thread,if only (for me,anyway) on the basis of his,rather nice Second Symphony,'Deirdrie,which has a rather lovely slow movement. Apart from that one, I have to admit,the few Boughton cds I have do tend to stay in the old box. Though that one,''Aylesbury Games' (?) has got some quite decent music on it,I think!!!! My own honest opinion,though,is that Boughton,(like Holbrooke,whose music strikes me as the more intriguing of the two), is more interesting to read about than listen to. But,I may be wrong.
Fricker sounds as if he deserves a thread,but until Dundonnell's vast treasure trove is unlocked,there are probably not enough recordings around,let alone performances,to generate any kind of debate. The same goes for Iain Hamilton. At any rate,I should have the Lyrita cd of the Fricker (Morgan & Banks) before long,hopefully & that cd off the Fricker & Orr symphony,sounds very tempting.
Of the other contendors,I notice that cds of Gordon Jacobs always seem to get very positive reviews. So,maybe he does too.
And then there's always the mysterious William Gaze Cooper. I have fancied hearing his Symphony No 4 (The West Wind) for some years. (His Second is based on a Swiss Yodel!!!) But without any performances & recordings,what can you post?
And who knows,what some of the other equally mysterious sounding,neglected names on Dundonnell's tapes,might generate?
As to DANIEL JONES,the MAIN subject of this thread,(!)I have put his book about Dylan Thomas FIRMLY on my 'list'!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Albion on September 15, 2011, 09:35:44 PM
David Morgan (1933-1988) has been mentioned several times in this thread - here is some information on him:

http://www.musiccentre.ca/apps/index.cfm?fuseaction=composer.FA_dsp_biography&authpeopleid=176&by=M (http://www.musiccentre.ca/apps/index.cfm?fuseaction=composer.FA_dsp_biography&authpeopleid=176&by=M)

and a brief exchange on the messageboard at Musicweb:

http://members2.boardhost.com/MusicWebUK/thread/1196867194.html (http://members2.boardhost.com/MusicWebUK/thread/1196867194.html)

 ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 16, 2011, 01:30:02 AM
I've seen those,but they're handy links for anyone who hasn't. My Lyrita cd of the David Morgan Concerto (etc) is still in the post & hopefully should turn up soon!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Lilas Pastia on September 16, 2011, 03:28:27 PM
http://www.mediafire.com/?gwsteelf843vw# (http://www.mediafire.com/?gwsteelf843vw#)

CLICK ME!!!
cilgwyn I'm confused: your files advertise - if I may put it that way - the entire, 4-movement Grace Williams symphony no. 1. And yet when I search for that work I only come across an article (http://www.wrightmusic.net/pdfs/grace-williams.pdf) claiming she scrapped the work and retained the scherzo only. Recorded on Lyrita I found symphony no. 2 only. I thought you may had mislabeled that download but no, the movement timings are different ! So what have we got ther ?  ??? ???
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 16, 2011, 03:33:19 PM
cilgwyn I'm confused: your files advertise - if I may put it that way - the entire, 4-movement Grace Williams symphony no. 1. And yet when I search for that work I only come across an article (http://www.wrightmusic.net/pdfs/grace-williams.pdf) claiming she scrapped the work and retained the scherzo only. Recorded on Lyrita I found symphony no. 2 only. I thought you may had mislabeled that download but no, the movement timings are different ! So what have we got ther ?  ??? ???

It IS the entire Symphony No.1 of 1943 :)

A radio broadcast from 2008 with the BBC National Orchestra of Wales under Owain Arwel Hughes.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 16, 2011, 11:44:16 PM
I wonder if that performance  (Grace Williams No 1)will emerge on cd. Some of those studio performances do,but three years,doesn't look too promising!
Johan's joke about Grace Jones backfired. Windows Media seemed determined to label my Grace Williams downloads as Nightclubbing by Grace Jones (complete with a scary looking picture of the woman!) :o :o
It is Symphony No 1,you're listening to,not 'Slave to the rhythm'?!!! :o :o :o
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 19, 2011, 02:38:08 AM
Just in case anyone doesn't already know,Grace Williams's Violin Concerto and Sinfonia Concertante have been uploaded to Youtube. Hopefully,the following link will take you to the Violin Concerto. If not,it (and the Sinfonia) ARE up there!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RMyOmaNlmI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RMyOmaNlmI)

Sinfonia Concertante (hopefully!):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L6mQQzxAts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L6mQQzxAts)

This is why I'm still using cassettes! (I love 'em though)

More fun Welsh music here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?gwsteelf843vw# (http://www.mediafire.com/?gwsteelf843vw#)


An interesting article about Grace Williams and the "Holy Grail of Welsh Classical Music",her 'Missa Cambrensis',here:

http://www.bangor.ac.uk/news/full-ori.php.en?Id=1206 (http://www.bangor.ac.uk/news/full-ori.php.en?Id=1206)

Plus a transcribed interview with the composer here:

http://www.welshmusic.org.uk/grace_williams.htm (http://www.welshmusic.org.uk/grace_williams.htm)

                                                                           Yours Sincerely
                                                                            Fred Flinstone esq.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on September 19, 2011, 01:44:22 PM
David Morgan (1933-1988) has been mentioned several times in this thread - here is some information on him:

http://www.musiccentre.ca/apps/index.cfm?fuseaction=composer.FA_dsp_biography&authpeopleid=176&by=M (http://www.musiccentre.ca/apps/index.cfm?fuseaction=composer.FA_dsp_biography&authpeopleid=176&by=M)

and a brief exchange on the messageboard at Musicweb:

http://members2.boardhost.com/MusicWebUK/thread/1196867194.html (http://members2.boardhost.com/MusicWebUK/thread/1196867194.html)
 
 ;D

Yes, I was one of those participating in the Musicweb exchange. I loved that Lyrita LP with the Violin Concerto and Contrasts - it was not a good idea to split them up on CD.


Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 19, 2011, 01:53:31 PM
Hopefully my cd copy will arrive this week! It does seem to daft to put 'Contrasts' on another cd,but there we are!!!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 21, 2011, 12:52:32 PM
Nice to see a mention of Daniel Jones in this review,however brief.

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2011/sept11/hughes_biscd1674.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2011/sept11/hughes_biscd1674.htm)

Hope the link works.I'm still a newbie to this!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 21, 2011, 01:25:23 PM
Yes, it works! Thanks for the link!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 21, 2011, 02:07:08 PM
Thanks.So,I finally cracked it & the inserting of photo's! Musn't get too carried away,though. Don't want Fozzie Bear turning up in too many threads.
Daniel Jones only gets a brief look in,but it's something.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 21, 2011, 03:16:57 PM
Somm are issuing the Piano Concertos Nos. 1 and 2 by William Mathias played by Mark Bebbington with the Ulster Orchestra under George Vass on 17th October.
The coupling is the VW Fantasy for Piano and Orchestra(1896, revised 1904).

Excellent news :)

Now...what about the Mathias Violin Concerto and the Organ Concerto ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 22, 2011, 06:30:48 AM

Thanks for the good news. George Vass did the Holbrooke,I believe. Mathias may not be the deepest composer,but he sounds modest,he was good at what he did & the more the merrier,I say. But the lack of interest in Daniel Jones,Grace Williams or David Wynne,amongst others,makes you think.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on September 30, 2011, 02:15:11 PM
Just to intimate that I now have a functioning reel-to-reel machine, that I have recovered all of my 266 tapes (bar two which, fortunately, contained music which was mostly available elsewhere in any case).

The sound quality of almost all of the tapes I have listened to so far is amazingly good-even through the tape machine's own speakers :) I hope to receive a din plug next week to allow me to connect my machine first to my amplifier and then to my pc.

So...progress :) The Daniel Jones may not now be too far away ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Lethevich on September 30, 2011, 03:30:14 PM
Excellent news!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 30, 2011, 11:28:42 PM
Just to intimate that I now have a functioning reel-to-reel machine, that I have recovered all of my 266 tapes (bar two which, fortunately, contained music which was mostly available elsewhere in any case).

The sound quality of almost all of the tapes I have listened to so far is amazingly good-even through the tape machine's own speakers :) I hope to receive a din plug next week to allow me to connect my machine first to my amplifier and then to my pc.

So...progress :) The Daniel Jones may not now be too far away ;D


News of the Week!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on October 01, 2011, 03:01:18 AM
Definately.(the goings on in the Middle East excepted,of course). And a fully functioning reel to reel tape recorder in 2011. Amazing! There's hope yet!!!
Now where's my 16mm Film projector? :D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on October 01, 2011, 12:33:32 PM
Definately.(the goings on in the Middle East excepted,of course). And a fully functioning reel to reel tape recorder in 2011. Amazing! There's hope yet!!!
Now where's my 16mm Film projector? :D

The irony...and quite an expensive irony too.....was that I bought a replacement Grundig TK14 machine via ebay for £40. When it arrived yesterday it would not work and, on closer examination of its inside, had two broken drive belts. I then sent off for a replacement drive belt kit...at another £20.

As a last throw of the dice...I swapped the power connector from this machine to my old machine...which then sprang back into life :o ;D ;D

Listened last night to Daniel Jones's short(19 minutes) Symphony No.10: BBC Welsh Symphony Orchestra(Sir Charles Groves), 1981 recording. Powerful stuff and certainly acceptable(possibly even good) sound quality. Tonight: Jones Symphony No.3, followed by Arnold Cooke's Symphonies Nos. 4 and 5.

Oh...and the din plug has arrived today ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on October 01, 2011, 12:47:27 PM
Oh...and the din plug has arrived today ;D


To paraphrase Woody Allen: that final sentence could cause cardiac arrest in a yak.


The plot thickens...


You now have access to music that has lain dormant for decades!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on October 01, 2011, 12:57:39 PM
You're talking to someopne who still uses dolby cassettes to record so,rest assured,I AM impressed. Althiough,sadly,Nakamichi decks have never come my way! :(
Had a few pints at the local (although,they were pulling my leg about drinking too slowly!!! :o,so it's off to bed now!
I must try this Cooke fellow!
Glad you're tapes are play-able. Stored correctly,I DO think tape is a pretty durable medium.
Well.you've proved my point,Dundonnell,so enough said. Collectors owe people like you allot & the BBC.........maybe,if they could only understand the value of some of their archives.
God bless you,Daniel Jones wherever you are (if you ARE anywhere! : :o).

Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on October 02, 2011, 02:32:44 PM
Suprise! Suprise! R3 are broadcasting a Cantata by Daniel Jones, this week,although it's an archive recording,not a new performance:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0159w88 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0159w88)

Hope this link works. If not it's listed in the schedule for Tuesday.
(Have you got this one allready,Dundonnell!! ;D )
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on October 02, 2011, 02:37:44 PM
Suprise! Suprise! R3 are broadcasting a Cantata by Daniel Jones, this week,although it's an archive recording,not a new performance:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0159w88 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0159w88)

Hope this link works. If not it's listed in the schedule for Tuesday.

I hope that you or someone can record the Jones Cantata :)

It is a bit rich for the BBC link to say "a composer who deserves wider recognition". Ok, then BBC do something about it!! ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Albion on October 02, 2011, 02:48:53 PM
I hope that you or someone can record the Jones Cantata :)

No doubt others will also be recording, but you'll certainly find a copy shortly afterwards over at the usual place.

 ;)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on October 02, 2011, 02:51:26 PM
Indeed. Talk about hypocrites! They have the resources to do something about it. Yet,as far as I can make out,about the only Daniel Jones that gets broadcast,is his 'Dance Fantasy'. Scandalous really,that a composer of such importance to Wales,should be so neglected in his own country & by our supposed,'National orchestra'! Still,I thought I would mention it.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on October 02, 2011, 02:56:37 PM
Like re-broadcasting the complete symphonies cycle they did......assuming they haven't wiped the tapes, of course :-X

(I know that Rob Barnett on Musicweb has the complete cycle on tape because he has said so more than once.....frustratingly :()
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on October 02, 2011, 03:09:01 PM
Lucky man. A bit like waving the proverbial carrot at the old donkey,though!
Hang on though,I've just realised,Daniel Jones was born in 1912!!! A Centenary year,some times helps! Maybe,next year? Hope,maybe?!!!Surely,they can't ignore a centenary year? (Although,I wouldn't put it past them!)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on October 02, 2011, 03:25:14 PM
Rob Barnett keeps on doing this in his reviews on Musicweb. He must have the most amazing archive of taped performances :o

Why don't you send the BBC Wales Music Department an email asking them how they intend to celebrate the centenary? ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on October 03, 2011, 04:07:14 AM
A little bit more Daniel Jones coming up in January 2012,but not much!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/orchestras/events/791 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/orchestras/events/791)
(Hope my link works.If not see BBC NOW Jan 2012 schedule!)

Dominy Clements (Musicweb) said he looked like George Smiley! ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on October 03, 2011, 06:11:13 AM
A little bit more Daniel Jones coming up in January 2012,but not much!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/orchestras/events/791 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/orchestras/events/791)
(Hope my link works.If not see BBC NOW Jan 2012 schedule!)

Dominy Clements (Musicweb) said he looked like George Smiley! ;D

Hopefully, you will have 'Cloud Messenger' before then anyway :)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on October 03, 2011, 06:22:41 AM
I thought you might have it! ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on October 03, 2011, 08:10:43 AM
Rob Barnett keeps on doing this in his reviews on Musicweb. He must have the most amazing archive of taped performances :o


You are our very own Scottish Rob Barnett.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on October 04, 2011, 02:56:17 PM
The Cantata was duly recorded. A far more substantial work than I expected (the listing didn't tell you much). What a wonderful composer.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on October 04, 2011, 03:32:54 PM
The Cantata was duly recorded. A far more substantial work than I expected (the listing didn't tell you much). What a wonderful composer.

It is now available for download on 'Unsung Composers' :)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Albion on October 04, 2011, 11:27:57 PM
Here are some useful listening notes about this substantial piece from the BBC Radio 3 website -

DANIEL JONES - COME MY WAY, MY TRUTH, MY LIFE

In Memory of John Aeron-Thomas

This work was commissioned by Mrs. Margaret Aeron-Thomas. The text is by George Herbert (1593-1633).

George Herbert was born in Montgomery Castle, the sea of a noble family; younger brother of a famous diplomat and philosopher, and with an exceptionally brilliant academic career behind him, he seemed certain of rapid advancement at court but, after some years, he suddenly chose to be ordained and became Vicar of Bemerton, a small village near Salisbury. This renunciation of worldly ‘success’ could hardly have been the result of simple frustrated ambition.

No doubt Herbert felt a growing disappointment, not with the failure of his career, but with life at court. At the same time there took place within him a significant process of change, a conflict that resolved itself finally into the certain conviction that he was called to the priesthood. As with some of the most deeply devout, his belief was strengthened by the struggles that shaped it. Herbert never concealed the hardships of the ‘Way’, he displayed them side by side with proclamations of joy in his only sacred publication, The Temple. Indeed, he himself called this book “a picture of the many spiritual conflicts that have passed between God and my soul, before I could subject mine to the will of Jesus my Master, in whose service I have now found perfect freedom.”

The seven movements of the Cantata are arranged to follow the spiritual progress of George Herbert’s belief.

1) The Call. This movement is introductory. The outstanding characteristic of Herbert’s belief was its tenderness; the love of Christ is constantly emphasized in his poetry.

2) Choler. Here Herbert angrily rejects his belief and rebels against its retraining power. In the middle section he laments his loss of freedom and regrets his renunciation of courtly pleasures; these include literary fame (‘Have I no bays to crown it?”). His anger rises again but, at the end, one word of Christ recalls him.

(3) Antiphon (i). A hymn of praise, more tender than exultant. Once again, the word ‘love’ is underlined; ‘Praise be the God of Love’.

(4) Fantasia: ‘Whither, O whither art thou fled??’ This is the first line of a poem in which Herbert falls to the nadir of his spiritual life; he searches but God is nowhere to be found. His despair is more terrible than the anger of the rebel (in no. 2), who at least acknowledges the presence from which he flees. The movement is for orchestra only, but its main theme could be sung to the first words of the poem. To this is added a pattern of chords already heard in the middle section of No.2; it recurs not inappropriately, because at that point in No.2 the poet refers to his godless past.

(5) The Echo. Herbert plays the part of an innocent, learning by question and answer. It appears that the source of the answers is natural, an echo, repeating the last word or syllable of the question. Only at the end the truth is revealed; the music of the answer here is very slightly different from the music at the end of the question.

(6) Dialogue. Christian defies Death, and Death replies with menaces, Christian consigns Death to nothingness, and Death is annihilated with a final casual chord.

(7) Antiphon (ii). An exultant hymn of praise; Herbert invites the world to share his joy.

The structure of the Cantata is, broadly, a pattern of two groups of three movements on each side of a central movement, and to some extent the members of these groups correspond, 1 with 5, 2 with 6, 3 with 7. The orthodox arrangement of chorus and orchestra is limited to two movements (1 and 2). The first Antiphon (no.3) is for double chorus and orchestra, the sections alternating until they come to a final unison; the second (No.7) contrasts the women’s section with the men’s but with a refrain in which all join. No.4 is for orchestra only, No. 5 for chorus only, with a detached choral section “offstage”. No. 6 is for tenor solo, chorus and orchestra. The device of reference to music previously heard is not much used. In No. 4 there is a chordal pattern from No. 2, and in No. 6 between the tenor’s “Do they worst” and “I shall be one day better than before” the first five bars of the Cantata are played again by the orchestra. In No.7, sopranos and altos sing “But above all, the heart must bear the greatest part” to the main theme of the first movement.

The work is written in memory of John Aeron-Thomas. He was a true Christian, and can be imagined joining himself in this music, and in the person of a Christian defying and dismissing Death.

 :)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on October 05, 2011, 04:41:17 AM
Very helpful :)

Thank you, John.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on October 06, 2011, 09:34:26 AM
You just might be interested to hear that a member of another forum ;D has just revealed that he has all 13 of the Jones symphonies on tape and will be uploading Nos. 1, 5, 11 and the unnumbered 13th over the weekend :) :) :)

Since Nos. 2 and 12 are already on that forum and I have Nos. 3 and 10 for uploading soon-ish that will make up the complete set :)

We are living in an Age of Wonders
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Lethevich on October 06, 2011, 09:39:03 AM
Who even needs labels to record this stuff anymore? Just dig around in our attics and I'm sure anything we might want will turn up ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Albion on October 06, 2011, 09:53:23 AM
You just might be interested to hear that a member of another forum ;D has just revealed that he has all 13 of the Jones symphonies on tape and will be uploading Nos. 1, 5, 11 and the unnumbered 13th over the weekend :) :) :)

Since Nos. 2 and 12 are already on that forum and I have Nos. 3 and 10 for uploading soon-ish that will make up the complete set :)

We are living in an Age of Wonders

In terms of potential interest, somebody with the nom-de-forum that begins with a 'c' and ends with an 'n' springs to mind!

 :o
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on October 06, 2011, 10:10:11 AM
In terms of potential interest, somebody with the nom-de-forum that begins with a 'c' and ends with an 'n' springs to mind!

 :o


Indeed! Just saw it on UC. Terrific news!!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on October 06, 2011, 10:10:38 AM
Who even needs labels to record this stuff anymore? Just dig around in our attics and I'm sure anything we might want will turn up ;D


 :D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on October 06, 2011, 10:18:51 AM
Who even needs labels to record this stuff anymore? Just dig around in our attics and I'm sure anything we might want will turn up ;D

In that case...can I have the Cooke 2nd and 6th symphonies, the Hamilton 1st, 3rd and 4th, the Hoddinott 1st, 4th, 8th and 9th, the McCabe 5th, 6th and 7th please ;D ;D

....and the Violin Concertos by Fricker(2nd), Hamilton(2nd), Hoddinott(1st), Gordon Jacob, Leighton, Mathias and McCabe (No.1)

....and the Piano Concertos by Arnold Cooke, McCabe(3rd) and Searles(Nos. 1 and 2).

Any time soon will do ;D ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on October 07, 2011, 07:45:06 AM
Who even needs labels to record this stuff anymore? Just dig around in our attics and I'm sure anything we might want will turn up ;D

Who knows,I might find a matching boot! :(
Hopefully,my high gain fm stereo radio aerial will join the tv boosters,rafters & grime before long. Actually,come to think of it,I have got some nice,rare,banned incandescent bulbs up there! ;D
But no Dan Jones!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on October 07, 2011, 07:47:29 AM
Anyone got the complete Radio 3 broadcast of Holst's 'The Perfect Fool' opera, up there? It could be behind the Water Cistern,somewhere.
Can't believe you haven't got tapes of those,Dundonnell. As Private Eye would say,"Shome mistake,ed!"
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on October 07, 2011, 05:21:16 PM
Perhaps you have heard already but in another place you can now obtain downloads of the following Daniel Jones works:

Symphony No.1
Symphony No.5
Symphony No.11
Symphony "No.13"
Sinfonietta No.1
Overture "Ieunectid"


That is in addition to the Symphonies Nos. 2 and 12 and the Cello Concerto which were already there.

When Symphonies Nos. 3 and 10 join them that will make the complete set :) :)

This has been a GREAT DAY :) :)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Albion on October 07, 2011, 11:27:39 PM
When Symphonies Nos. 3 and 10 join them that will make the complete set :) :)

To clarify, for those new to this composer: in order to achieve a 'full house' you will also need these two excellent Lyrita discs -

(http://www.lyrita.co.uk/covers/SRCD0329.jpg)  (http://www.lyrita.co.uk/covers/SRCD0326.jpg)

LYRITA SRCD329 & SRCD326

 ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on October 28, 2011, 05:26:01 PM
Symphonies Nos. 3 and 10, together with the Violin Concerto, Tone Poem "Cloud Messenger" and Choral Suite "Hear the Voice of the Ancient Bard" will be available for download at
 'Unsung Composers' within the next twenty-four hours :)

So too is David Morgan's Sinfonia da Requiem :)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on October 29, 2011, 04:12:19 AM
In terms of potential interest, somebody with the nom-de-forum that begins with a 'c' and ends with an 'n' springs to mind!

 :o

I'm glad that nom-de-forum,you spelt out, ended with the letter 'n'. You had me worried for a moment! :o
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Mountain Goat on August 27, 2012, 09:21:45 AM
Daniel Jones' cello concerto will be performed in St Asaph Cathedral on 29 Sep by Paul Watkins and the BBC National Orchestra of Wales - hopefully it will be broadcast on Radio 3!

http://www.nwimf.com/whats_on/artists2012.html?tpm=1_12
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on August 27, 2012, 10:07:01 AM
Good news! :) A marvellous composer! His neglect here,in his own native country,is truly shocking! :o So,it's wonderful to see something being put on. But why no symphonies? Unless,I've missed something (I will google around later!)
I see that the Irish have been releasing allot of their own native composers on the RTE Lyric FM label. I rather hoped that a devolved government,here in Wales, might be interested in funding,or promoting, some kind of initiative in this area. Of course,there all sorts of more important issues like housing & health,but I did hope............ :(
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Mountain Goat on August 27, 2012, 11:28:36 AM
Shocking indeed, I'd hoped for a bit more considering it's his centenary!

I rather hoped that a devolved government,here in Wales, might be interested in funding,or promoting, some kind of initiative in this area. Of course,there all sorts of more important issues like housing & health,but I did hope............ :(
(http://www.flyingpigs.org.uk/flyingpig.gif)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on August 27, 2012, 12:36:41 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on August 27, 2012, 01:20:13 PM
Quote from: cilgwyn on 29-10-2011, 14:12:19 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=10658.msg572257#msg572257)
I'm glad that nom-de-forum,you spelt out, ended with the letter 'n'. You had me worried for a moment! :o



In some dialects the t is dropped.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on August 27, 2012, 01:47:08 PM
Incidentally,off topic,I know,but I am now a member of the 'Art Music Forum'! :) (I just 'bumped into' Dundonnell there,a little while ago!)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Mountain Goat on August 28, 2012, 08:04:00 AM
Incidentally,off topic,I know,but I am now a member of the 'Art Music Forum'! :) (I just 'bumped into' Dundonnell there,a little while ago!)
I've just joined that forum too, mainly to avail myself of the British music downloads which were previously on unsungcomposers. I was worried they might be gone for ever so it was a relief to find them there! I can now continue my (very enjoyable) journey through Jones' symphonies (see what I did there - thread now back on topic  ;D). The next step (when my next pay cheque arrives) is to get those 2 Lyrita CDs to complete the set.

And what about the string quartets, has anyone heard those? The Chandos 2-CD set seems to be out of print and Amazon sellers are asking for silly money  >:(
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on August 28, 2012, 08:51:03 AM
Thank you,for that! My suppers on now,so......oops.off topic,again! ;D Seriously,you won't regret buying those! I remember getting the original Lps out of the library. I never forget them! And I'm not referring to the pops and clicks! ;D They are impressive performances,even if they're old! A pity Bryden Thomson died before his time (as they say). He was an outspoken admirer of Daniel Jones & when he died the main hope for any further recordings,very possibly,died with him! (Hopefully,someone else will come along & take up his cause!)
As to the string quartets. I believe you can still download them from the Chandos 'shop'. Not quite the same,but it's something!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Mountain Goat on August 28, 2012, 10:27:51 AM
Well I said I'd wait till I get paid, but somehow while my mind was elsewhere my hand controlling the mouse seems to have gone and ordered those CDs already, plus the CD of Hoddinott's symphonies 2, 3 & 5 thrown in for good measure  :o

As to the string quartets. I believe you can still download them from the Chandos 'shop'. Not quite the same,but it's something!

Good to know I can still get them, though that would involve breaking the habit of a lifetime and actually paying for a download! I'm old-fashioned, I don't feel right paying for something which has no physical presence  ;D Maybe I'll leave it a little longer, and keep checking Amazon to see if a copy pops up for a semi-reasonable price - that strategy worked for the similarly unavailable EMI set of Brian symphonies 7-9 & 31.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on August 28, 2012, 10:50:26 AM
Old fashioned? Do you have a dolby cassette deck too?!!! ;D Nice to 'meet' someone who still cashes cheques,anyway! :)
Yes,it IS hard to resist! I saw that Groves 'Mass of Life',the other day (as you may know!) I've been looking for it for ages! The prices sellers asked have been sky high! Anyone would think Charles Groves had signed them himself!!! And it only came to £11.26! It is like mint!!! :)
Going back to the topic! ??? Those Daniel Jones Lyrita cds are worth their weight in gold. Well,almost! I'm not so sure about the choral work,included. I quite like it,but it's Daniel Jones the symphonist who does it for me! Maybe,I'll have another go! You may feel differently!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Mountain Goat on August 28, 2012, 12:08:43 PM
Old fashioned? Do you have a dolby cassette deck too?!!! ;D Nice to 'meet' someone who still cashes cheques,anyway! :)

Well I have a tape deck in my car, and still listen to vinyl occasionally. But I don't cash cheques though, "pay cheque" just has a nice ring to it! Sorry to shatter your illusions  ;D

Anyway, I very much look forward to those CDs. As for the choral work - I rather liked that cantata "Come my way" which was broadcast on Radio 3 last year, so we'll see...
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on August 28, 2012, 01:16:48 PM
I need to have another go at the choral works,when I'm in the right mood for them. As to my cheque book,I DID actually use it recently. It had been such a long time,for one brief moment,I couldn't remember how to write it! :o :( It all came back to me,then. Except the money,of course! :(
I actually bought a new dolby cassette deck about a year ago. I thought I'd buy one while I still could. I use it now & again,to record off the radio & now the loft insulation has been installed I must get around to putting up that fm stereo aerial that's been leaning against the living room wall for months! ;D

  Meanwhile,back in the twenty first century...........I wonder if there are any record labels out there who are,unbeknown to us,contemplating a Daniel Jones cd release? ::)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Lilas Pastia on August 31, 2012, 02:12:08 PM
The quartets are a great corpus of works. I've been  the happy owner of the cd set for a few years ;). IMO they belong to the half-dozen best series of chamber music composed in the second half of the last century.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 11, 2012, 01:25:45 AM
The quartets are a great corpus of works. I've been  the happy owner of the cd set for a few years ;). IMO they belong to the half-dozen best series of chamber music composed in the second half of the last century.
What a lucky man! As rare as hens teeth now....and you can probably get those on ebay! ;D Downloads are allright,but they're not the same! :(
Shame on Chandos for not reissuing them! Bryden Thomson's wonderful,underrated Bax cycle (more Baxian than Handley overrated cycle imho) gets the same treatment! The rotters! :( >:(
  Hopefully,we can look forward to allot of interesting discussions about this marvellous composer on 'The Art Music Forum'!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 11, 2012, 02:39:53 PM
After my Delius sessions (Koanga,The Magic Fountain,Song of the high hills) I felt like a really good symphony. I am now listening to the AMF downloads of Daniel Jones's symphonies 2 & 3. I can't believe how impressive these unrecorded,ignored (even here in Wales :() symphonies are. Marvellous! We get Rachmaninov & Glazunov symphonies from the BBCNOW,but no Daniel Jones symphonies! What a strange world! ::) After Havergal Brian,I find him one of the most absorbing British (albeit,WELSH!) symphonists,I know. Very,very satisfying to listen to. Like Brian his music has a thorny exterior,but it has a strong lyrical vein & his orchestration is varied & colourful. At times almost romantic,the more you listen the more you find. Like Brian at his best,I think you could go on listening to this music,over & over again & always find something new.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 12, 2012, 07:18:34 AM
Of the two,I suppose the Second (if I have to choose) is the most immeadiately appealing. Right from it's haunting opening it grabs & holds you're attention all the way to the end. Despite a superficially thorny exterior,this is a very approachable symphony. Indeed,very possibly,the most immeadiately appealing of the entire cycle. Chock full of brilliant,glittering orchestration;in it's steely,granitic way,this is colourful,at times romantic music which evokes all kinds of images of shimmering seascapes and cloud flecked landscapes. One of the most absorbing British (WELSH! ;D ) symphonies I have heard,which makes it all the more astonishing that a symphonist of this stature is ignored by our so called BBC National Symphony orchestra of Wales! So much for devolution! Maybe,they should be fined under the trades description act? But seriously,it IS very annoying! >:(

The third symphony is in many ways every bit as absorbing. Less immeadiately approachable,but certainly not in any sense,difficult;this is Daniel Jones's muse wearing a much craggier,astringent,granitic exterior. In that sense,I suppose one could argue that intellectually it's even more interesting,because it's simply a harder nut to crack! As Brian enthusiasts will know,some of his later,less superficially appealing symphonies are actually some of the most intriguing of the lot. In that sense,there is the same fascination here of gradually unlocking the secrets within & the feeling of satisfaction this ultimately evokes. At the same time,as in Brian's earlier,large scale symphonies,there is a romantic streak,which is probably why one of the most potent images evoked by this symphony,is one of welsh seascapes.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 13, 2012, 03:41:18 PM
On October 6th,the BBC National Orchestra of Wales will be performing the Symphony No 11 by Daniel Jones,at the Brangwyn Hall,Swansea. Hopefully this will be broadcast!
More later....as it's time for bed!!!! :o ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Lilas Pastia on September 14, 2012, 02:50:27 PM
After my Delius sessions (Koanga,The Magic Fountain,Song of the high hills) I felt like a really good symphony. I am now listening to the AMF downloads of Daniel Jones's symphonies 2 & 3. I can't believe how impressive these unrecorded,ignored (even here in Wales :() symphonies are. Marvellous! We get Rachmaninov & Glazunov symphonies from the BBCNOW,but no Daniel Jones symphonies! What a strange world! ::) After Havergal Brian,I find him one of the most absorbing British (albeit,WELSH!) symphonists,I know. Very,very satisfying to listen to. Like Brian his music has a thorny exterior,but it has a strong lyrical vein & his orchestration is varied & colourful. At times almost romantic,the more you listen the more you find. Like Brian at his best,I think you could go on listening to this music,over & over again & always find something new.

My turn to be jealous ! I have only the two Lyritas of 4, 6-9. Where ARE thos AMF downloads ? ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Albion on September 14, 2012, 11:10:44 PM
Where ARE thos AMF downloads ?

The archive which I maintain is now here, along with many other recordings (and members) formerly at another site ...

http://artmusic.smfforfree.com/ (http://artmusic.smfforfree.com/)

 :)


Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 15, 2012, 04:15:05 AM
My turn to be jealous ! I have only the two Lyritas of 4, 6-9. Where ARE thos AMF downloads ? ;D
Ooh,nice to be able to make someone feel jealous! :o ;D Wow! You're in for a treat! :) There's 'a whole lot of' Daniel Jones there!!!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Mountain Goat on September 15, 2012, 05:02:51 AM
I'm back now after a week walking and camping in the mountains of Snowdonia, and am pleased to see so much activity on the thread of one who is fast becoming one of my favourite composers!

On October 6th,the BBC National Orchestra of Wales will be performing the Symphony No 11 by Daniel Jones,at the Brangwyn Hall,Swansea.
Great news! I may well go to that, as Swansea isn't too far from me, and the rest of the programme looks good too - Elgar's cello concerto and Vaughan Williams' London Symphony (more details here (http://www.swanseafestival.org/en/oct6th.html)).

The quartets are a great corpus of works. I've been  the happy owner of the cd set for a few years ;). IMO they belong to the half-dozen best series of chamber music composed in the second half of the last century.
Glad to hear that as I've just ordered it from an Amazon Marketplace seller, the price having dropped a fair bit - still a bit steep but if these quartets are as good as the symphonies it will be money well spent!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on November 12, 2012, 02:39:19 AM
Quote from: cilgwyn on 12-09-2012, 17:18:34 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=10658.msg658669#msg658669)
Of the two,I suppose the Second (if I have to choose) is the most immeadiately appealing. Right from it's haunting opening it grabs & holds you're attention all the way to the end. Despite a superficially thorny exterior,this is a very approachable symphony. Indeed,very possibly,the most immeadiately appealing of the entire cycle. Chock full of brilliant,glittering orchestration;in it's steely,granitic way,this is colourful,at times romantic music which evokes all kinds of images of shimmering seascapes and cloud flecked landscapes. One of the most absorbing British (WELSH! ;D ) symphonies I have heard,which makes it all the more astonishing that a symphonist of this stature is ignored by our so called BBC National Symphony orchestra of Wales! So much for devolution! Maybe,they should be fined under the trades description act? But seriously,it IS very annoying!



I have been listening to the Second Symphony multiple times these past few days - I completely agree with your analysis and verdict, cilgwyn. I liked it at once, as is recorded in this thread, but coming back to it, it is even better than I thought. It deserves repeated hearings, because it is filled to overflowing with ideas, too many to take in at once. As with Brian, you have to learn to understand how the music 'goes'. Once you have cracked that, the music speaks directly, and with great force and beauty.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on November 12, 2012, 04:24:29 AM
P.S. I can detect only two, very slight influences - Sibelius (one passage reminiscent of the Fifth) and Vaughan Williams (oompah bass, Fourth). But Daniel Jones is his own man. He is freer than Simpson, whose stringency can be a bit stifling.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on November 12, 2012, 07:56:59 AM
Good Gracious :)

You have succeeded in impressing Johan with you eloquent description ;D  Well done :)  And now he is impressed by the music itself. Excellent :) :)

One of the points about the Jones symphonies is that they do really form a cogent cycle and that they should be listened to and studied as such, The same, obviously, applies to composers like Brian, Rubbra, Holmboe, Simpson.

It is ironic that Mark Morris(he who has little time for Simpson or Malcolm Arnold) in his Dictionary of Twentieth Century composers stated that Jones's significance would only increase over time ::)  Not much sign of that at present although I would agree that he is the composer who, probably, is most in need of rediscovery. Unfortunately the centenary has come and gone without Chandos or Dutton evincing any interest :(

I had such hopes whilst Hickox was at the helm of the BBC NOW but Thomas Sondergard ???   More likely to be wanting to make a name for himself on the international stage.
That is the trouble with British orchestras appointing young or youngish foreign conductors. They are looking-understandably-to make a reputation and then move onwards and upwards. Conductors like Groves, Del Mar, Thomson, Handley were quite content to remain here and conduct regional orchestras and to conduct as much British music as possible.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Mountain Goat on June 20, 2013, 06:56:52 AM
The cello concerto is being broadcast tomorrow afternoon on Radio 3:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b02x98z0

I assume this is the performance that was given in St Asaph Cathedral in September 2012. I was at this concert - quite a distance to travel but worth it as Daniel Jones' music is performed about as often as Havergal Brian's.  >:(
In the interval I overheard many positive comments about the piece, so hopefully Jones has gained some new fans as a result.
Title: Recordings Daniel Jones Symphonies 10, 11, and 12, Sinfonietta, Oboe Concerto
Post by: kafkaschimp on September 02, 2013, 06:55:48 PM
For anyone who is interested, I have recordings (off air, live) of Daniel Jones Symphonies 10, 11, and 12 (all premiere performances) and the Sinfonietta.

I also have a recording of the premiere (only performance?) of the Oboe Concerto, commissioned for the Gower Festival by a small local radio station, who supplied me with a tape shortly after the performance. I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't another copy in existence, unless they also supplied the Welsh Music Centre - but there is no mention of it in their archive search.

If anyone would like private copies of these, let me know at mmorris@incentre.net

I also have a copy of the extensive essay I wrote about Daniel Jones' music for the National Concert Hall of Wales' Daniel Jones Memorial Concert programme booklet, shortly after he died, and if anyone wants a photocopy of that, let me know.

mmorris@incentre.net


Mark Morris
University of Alberta
Edmonton
Alberta
Canada
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: kafkaschimp on September 02, 2013, 07:02:42 PM
Good Gracious :)

You have succeeded in impressing Johan with you eloquent description ;D  Well done :)  And now he is impressed by the music itself. Excellent :) :)

One of the points about the Jones symphonies is that they do really form a cogent cycle and that they should be listened to and studied as such, The same, obviously, applies to composers like Brian, Rubbra, Holmboe, Simpson.

It is ironic that Mark Morris(he who has little time for Simpson or Malcolm Arnold) in his Dictionary of Twentieth Century composers stated that Jones's significance would only increase over time ::)  Not much sign of that at present although I would agree that he is the composer who, probably, is most in need of rediscovery. Unfortunately the centenary has come and gone without Chandos or Dutton evincing any interest :(

I had such hopes whilst Hickox was at the helm of the BBC NOW but Thomas Sondergard ???   More likely to be wanting to make a name for himself on the international stage.
That is the trouble with British orchestras appointing young or youngish foreign conductors. They are looking-understandably-to make a reputation and then move onwards and upwards. Conductors like Groves, Del Mar, Thomson, Handley were quite content to remain here and conduct regional orchestras and to conduct as much British music as possible.

Still don't have that much time for the symphonies of Simpson, though I'm warming in my older age to Arnold (a little), and would still like to see more interest in Daniel Jones!

Mark Morris
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: kafkaschimp on September 02, 2013, 07:48:48 PM
I was wrong about my piece for the National Concert Hall (see my earlier post) - it was written earlier, I think for the 75th Birthday Jones Concert in the Hall, and was about his music (to that date) - and Daniel Jones was very much alive then!

Another country, another life... But he has remained one of my Welsh heroes.

Reference has been made in these pages to Albion's Irish and British Music Archives, and the ability to listen to much of his music there. Doing a Google search from here in Canada this doesn't seem to exist (and I've tried every variant).

All I can find are circular links - in other words, to this and other forums discussing its existence, but not how to access it.

Please could somebody enlighten me!

Thanks.

Mark Morris
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: dyn on September 02, 2013, 08:00:25 PM
http://artmusic.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,506.0.html

Access requires registration I believe.
Title: Re: Recordings Daniel Jones Symphonies 10, 11, and 12, Sinfonietta, Oboe Concerto
Post by: cilgwyn on September 03, 2013, 02:52:28 AM
For anyone who is interested, I have recordings (off air, live) of Daniel Jones Symphonies 10, 11, and 12 (all premiere performances) and the Sinfonietta.

I also have a recording of the premiere (only performance?) of the Oboe Concerto, commissioned for the Gower Festival by a small local radio station, who supplied me with a tape shortly after the performance. I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't another copy in existence, unless they also supplied the Welsh Music Centre - but there is no mention of it in their archive search.

If anyone would like private copies of these, let me know at mmorris@incentre.net

I also have a copy of the extensive essay I wrote about Daniel Jones' music for the National Concert Hall of Wales' Daniel Jones Memorial Concert programme booklet, shortly after he died, and if anyone wants a photocopy of that, let me know.

mmorris@incentre.net


Mark Morris
University of Alberta
Edmonton
Alberta
Canada

Thank you very much indeed for your very kind offer! :) A fine composer! Unfortunately ::) ;D,as 'dyn' has pointed out, you appear to have been 'trumped' by fans of Daniel Jones,at the 'ArtMusicForum'. You have to register before you can access the archive link & the hundreds of other 'off air' treasures there,of course! It's an absolute 'dont miss' stop if you like composers who are a little off the beaten track!

http://artmusic.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,506.75.html

(scroll down to the bottom of the page & you'll see what I mean!)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 03, 2013, 06:45:35 AM
Hi, cilgwyn! Very very busy, that's why I have all but disappeared.


I'm interested in the essay, so I'll be emailing you, Mr Morris...
Title: Re: Recordings Daniel Jones Symphonies 10, 11, and 12, Sinfonietta, Oboe Concerto
Post by: kafkaschimp on September 03, 2013, 10:40:09 AM
Thank you very much indeed for your very kind offer! :) A fine composer! Unfortunately ::) ;D,as 'dyn' has pointed out, you appear to have been 'trumped' by fans of Daniel Jones,at the 'ArtMusicForum'.

Not entirely trumped. My recording of the Symphony No.12 is a different one from either of the two in Albion's files (thanks to those who helped me get there) - it is the first performance, conducted by Eric Bergel. The Oboe Concerto is not on his list. My recordings also include the original announcer's introductions, which are interesting in themselves, as S. 10, 11, 12, and the Oboe Concerto are all first performances.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on September 03, 2013, 12:16:13 PM
Good news! :) Daniel Jones has allot of admirers here and at the AMF. In fact he is regularly cited by members of the AMF as being at the top of their list of neglected composers who are most deserving of recordings.

Hello Johan! :) Welcome back. I wondered where you were!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: kafkaschimp on September 03, 2013, 12:19:55 PM
I would also add that I have just been listening to Albion's file of Groves 'Symphony No.10, and comparing it with mine - the sound quality on my copy is considerably better.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Dundonnell on May 02, 2014, 04:14:53 PM
Oh, wow ;D

I did not know that Mark Morris himself had been around here a few months back. I hope that he can forgive my vehement disagreements with him regarding Robert Simpson's music ;D ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on July 28, 2014, 07:04:46 AM
Apologies to Dundonnell. I missed this reply. I will order a lead to connect the pc and cassette deck and upload the Huw Watkins Sinfonietta during the next few weeks. Hopefully,the sooner the better! I haven't done this before,so I'll have to get to grips with how to do it first!!! I also have some orchestral works by another Welsh composer, Rhian Samuel. Very approachable,parts of them remind me of Martinu. Also,for Delius fans,the Scottish opera production of The Magic Fountain (and some other things,possibly?!) I will provide an appropriate link when they are ready,either here,at the AMF,both,or on request! The opera could be more hassle,so I'll do the others first!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on August 21, 2014, 01:24:00 PM
Wow! There is hope!!!

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2014/Aug14/Jones_Bartok_bagatelles.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2014/Aug14/Jones_Bartok_bagatelles.htm)

I know it's not a symphony,but.......and I hadn't even heard of TY CERDD!! ??? ;D

www.tycerdd.org (http://www.tycerdd.org)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on August 22, 2014, 12:54:29 AM
This is their first cd release! Hopefully,this initiative will be successful and they might eventually take up on Paul Corfield Godfrey's suggestion (Musicweb) and release some of the BBC recordings of the symphonies and choral works. This is a start,anyway. And out of the blue! I wasn't expecting anything this soon and if you look at their website it all sounds very promising!

Actually,I think this may be download only?! The downside? I do prefer an actual cd. Must be the anorak in me,I suppose? There's something more tangible about it? Well,of course there is! ;D It's just that a download somehow leaves Daniel Jones up in the old ether again,like one of those music videos on You tube! If only BIS or Cpo were interested,eh?!! Still,it's something........mustn't grumble! :( ;D I would prefer a cd release,though. Hopefully there is one on the way!

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/whats-on/arts-culture-news/rediscovering--music-dylan-thomas-7217439

http://www.sinfinimusic.com/uk/features/news/new-all-welsh-music-label-launched

Daniel Jones was a codebreaker,too!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/wales/posts/daniel-jones-composer-codebreaker-and-friend-of-dylan-thomas

Why are the Welsh so neglectful of their composers?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/wales/posts/Who-on-earth-is-Daniel-Jones

But if the so-called BBC Welsh National Orchestra of Wales don't perform the music and it doesn't get recorded how can the Welsh hear this music?





Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on October 29, 2014, 11:02:45 AM
There is a live broadcast of Daniel Jones Symphony No 4 on Radio 3 tomorrow evening (Thursday 30th October) in case anyone interested in this composer doesn't know!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04mbnzb (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04mbnzb)

Hope the link works! ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on October 29, 2014, 11:34:59 AM
This live performance follows on from this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04mb4jc (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04mb4jc)

I hope that this really is evidence of the beginnings of a revival of interest in this composer. The performance of the Fourth is of course largely because of the Dylan Thomas commemorations. It might not indicate any real interest beyond this,I fear! I hope I'm wrong!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on October 30, 2014, 12:16:32 PM
I'm going to record tonights performance of Daniel Jones Symphony No 4 a bit later. I just hope I don't miss the start!!!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on October 30, 2014, 12:34:00 PM
Daniel Jones. His daughter,an interview on R3 right now!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on October 30, 2014, 01:18:54 PM
Live broadcast performance of Daniel Jones Symphony No 4 beginning now,on R3! His daughter Catherine Roberts introduced it. There were two Bagatelles by Jones and the first ever broadcast of a home tape recording of Dylan Thomas,by Jones,earlier in the evening. I hope someone is recording this with more up to date equipment than me. If not.................
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on October 30, 2014, 01:32:50 PM
t's not a Nakamichi Red Dragon,but I think it was quite good for the price! ;D One of the last cassette decks in production. I thought I'd grab one before they stopped making them. Wonderful music this. Grave,lyrical,sombre. The second movement is very exciting.Full of Welsh fantasy. The reception sounds pretty good on the headphones. I haven't had time to put up the fm stereo aerial so I'm using the one for the tv,via a diplexer! All I need is that lead and I can make a cd-r! I'm enjoying this performance. Why can't R3 do a cycle with Grant Llewellyn now?!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: DaveF on October 30, 2014, 02:07:03 PM
Live broadcast performance of Daniel Jones Symphony No 4 beginning now,on R3!

Thank you for that heads-up - pretty good overall, and very moving at the end.  I could have done with a bit more grief being outpoured, but perhaps that's the idea - too much to be said, so better end quickly and restrainedly.  The music doesn't sound a lot like anyone else, does it? - not obviously British at all.  I found myself thinking, especially in the middle movement, of those composers who seem to take Hindemith as a model, perhaps with a bit of Sibelius - someone like Kokkonen, perhaps.  Anyway, will listen again (and record) on iPlayer.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on October 30, 2014, 02:53:03 PM
Remember C90 cassettes?! In my determination to get the interviews with his daughter,etc;I ran out of tape towards the end of the third movement! Next time I decide to use antiquated technology I must remember to have another tape handy for the bits in between!! Oh well,there's always listen again!! I'll try and get that third movement intact!
As to the music. Yes,I was very impressed. I'm not sure that this performance wasn't a little more cohesive than the one on the Lyrita cd. I don't think this should be a rare outing though. I think this is very rewarding music to listen to. Please Beeb,can we have some more,eh?!!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on October 31, 2014, 03:39:55 AM
Thank you for that heads-up - pretty good overall, and very moving at the end.  I could have done with a bit more grief being outpoured, but perhaps that's the idea - too much to be said, so better end quickly and restrainedly.  The music doesn't sound a lot like anyone else, does it? - not obviously British at all.  I found myself thinking, especially in the middle movement, of those composers who seem to take Hindemith as a model, perhaps with a bit of Sibelius - someone like Kokkonen, perhaps.  Anyway, will listen again (and record) on iPlayer.
I tend to agree with your observations. It was a bit late for intelligent comment last night,I fear! It was great to hear another interpretation. During the interval a comment was made to the effect that this was possibly his finest symphony. I will have to listen again for the exact words used. I like the Fourth,but I think some of his later symphonies are even better. They are more concentrated and his exploration of interesting orchestral timbres and instrumentation mark them out. I'm thinking of No's 8 & 9 in particular. But I love the 'sea music' in No 7,too. I also,marginally, prefer the unrecorded No 2 over No 4. It seems more focused. Having said that,I like them both!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on October 31, 2014, 01:59:02 PM
Listened to Symphony 9 tonight and greatly enjoyed it (Lyrita CD). I think that it is the same performance (Bryden Thomson) which I had on a BBC LP in my youth, then coupled with Symphony 8. His style reminds me a little of Lennox Berkeley and Alan Rawsthorne, both of whose music I admire.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on November 05, 2016, 06:07:00 AM
To be released on January 6th 2017:

(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/dinasman/81FvX3PUx7L._SL1499__zpswpp151v2.jpg)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Daniel-Jones-Symphonies-Nos-10/dp/B01MQD705P/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1478354689&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=daniel+jones+lyrita (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Daniel-Jones-Symphonies-Nos-10/dp/B01MQD705P/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1478354689&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=daniel+jones+lyrita)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Maestro267 on November 05, 2016, 08:06:42 AM
Fantastic news! A few performances of some of the symphonies that haven't been released yet have appeared on Youtube, which means hopefully they will eventually be released as well.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on November 05, 2016, 11:36:52 AM
Yes, great news.  :)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on November 05, 2016, 04:30:02 PM
Great cover photo. I just hope there will be more!! I live in Wales and I think it is frankly ridiculous that so many of his symphonies are unrecorded. As to the so called BBC National Orchestra of Wales? Wonderful orchestra,but they should be playing much more Welsh music!! >:( >:( >:D
Anyway.........!!! ::) ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Maestro267 on November 07, 2016, 07:17:26 AM
One interesting aspect of Jones' symphonies is that each of the first 12 (he later wrote a 13th) is predominantly "in" a different key of the chromatic scale. And Jones begins his 9th Symphony with a tone row comprising the root notes of the previous 8 symphonies, in order, before arriving at the key of that particular symphony, C.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on November 08, 2016, 01:52:05 PM
Actually it was Symphony 8 I listened to the other day rather than No.9. I listened to it again tonight - possibly my favourite symphony by Daniel Jones.
I just heard the opening of Symphony 1 on You Tube which sounds terrific - can't wait for the CD release. Perhaps Lyrita could issue Ruth Gipps's 4th Symphony one day.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on November 09, 2016, 11:46:48 AM
I agree with Colin ('Dundonnell') who sadly doesn't post here anymore that there is an appealing 'Nordic seriousness' about Jones's symphonies which is appealing. I'm also reminded of Holmboe when I listen to his music. Thanks to the recent revival of this thread I've been listening to the Lyrita CD with symphonies 4,7 and 8 and appreciating them as never before even though I owned the original LPs.

By the way cilgwyn I realise that your avatar image is of Daniel Jones. Hitherto I had assumed that it was a photo of yourself!
 8)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on November 21, 2016, 08:46:18 AM
I have been enjoying Symphony 4 'In Memory of Dylan Thomas' - the final movement is particularly good. As with Alan Rawsthorne the music does not give up its secrets easily, but the powerful, brooding atmosphere eventually makes for a compelling listening experience,
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on November 22, 2016, 05:19:10 AM
I could do with that distinguished white quiff of hair,vandermolen! :( ;D Funnily enough,I tend to picture the posters here as looking like their Avatar photographs! (Mirror Image is obviously a man of many faces!!) Going back to the music! Symphonies 4 & 7 are the first Daniel Jones symphonies I ever heard,courtesy of a library Lp. I think No 4 is probably my favourite;partly because of that. It's also,I feel,in some ways his most romantic. The second movement has a fantastical quality about it,which brings to mind Welsh folk tales and legends. It is both exciting and strikes me as Daniel Jones at his most immediately approachable,if you were someone who was new to his music. Taken on it's own,it strikes me as quite a showpiece. The first movement has a haunting quality which really stays in my mind after listening to it. It has a craggy grandeur to it which is very imposing. I find it quite thrilling,actually! I can understand why a Brianite might be attracted to this music. I need to listen to the Seventh again before posting;but I seem to remember it bringing to mind seascapes;and the first movement,if I remember correctly,ending with a particularly thrilling flourish.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on November 22, 2016, 05:41:42 AM
Actually it was Symphony 8 I listened to the other day rather than No.9. I listened to it again tonight - possibly my favourite symphony by Daniel Jones.
I just heard the opening of Symphony 1 on You Tube which sounds terrific - can't wait for the CD release. Perhaps Lyrita could issue Ruth Gipps's 4th Symphony one day.
Actually,I was thinking the eighth is my favourite now;not the Fourth! The opening is superb. I need to listen to the symphonies again though, before posting. Unfortunately,right now I seem to have caught the Mahler bug from Sarge!! ??? ;D (I've even bought Klemperer's Seventh!! :o) The eighth is full of absorbing timbres and is more tightly structured than the Fourth (Jones not Mahler!) which is a little too rhapsodic for it's own good,perhaps (if I have to criticise it). I should point out that the seascapes I am alluding to in the Seventh are a little different to those of Debussy or Bax!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Sergeant Rock on November 22, 2016, 05:46:37 AM
Unfortunately,right now I seem to have caught the Mahler bug from Sarge!! ??? ;D (I've even bought Klemperer's Seventh!! :o)

And I've caught the  D. Jones bug...I'll be listening to his symphonies today. I think I've only heard them once before (4, 6, 7, 8, 9)

Good luck with Klemp's M7  ;D

Sarge
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on December 01, 2016, 07:54:50 AM
Very,very good news for Daniel Jones admirers! Lyrita are planning to release all the recordings of the commercially unrecorded symphonies,made by the BBC. No's 2, 3, 5, 11 and 12 are all in preparation;although possibly not the unnumbered thirteenth, Symphony "In memoriam John Fussell"?
I got this information from Dundonnell at the Art Music Forum,who in turn received this news from John Quinn,via the Musicweb Message Board.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on December 01, 2016, 09:42:41 AM
You can listen to samples on Amazon,now;and download the recording. You can also pre-order it there. I will defer for the time being,as it is usually possible to purchase Lyrita cds at a lower price on the Musicweb site. My Musicweb pre-order of Bernard Van Dieren's Chinese Symphony arrived some time before the official release date!! According to posts on the Musicweb Message Board it isn't possible to place an order there yet;but hopefully it will be possible in the New Year. Have a look at the Message Board if you want to know more.

(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/dinasman/81FvX3PUx7L._SL1499__zpswpp151v2.jpg)

Again,for anyone who doesn't know! Lyrita are going to be releasing all the remaining Daniel Jones symphonies that haven't made it to cd,yet. The unnumbered thirteenth isn't included in their plans yet,it seems;but hopefully it will happen (we'll see!).
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on December 01, 2016, 12:20:25 PM
Very,very good news for Daniel Jones admirers! Lyrita are planning to release all the recordings of the commercially unrecorded symphonies,made by the BBC. No's 2, 3, 5, 11 and 12 are all in preparation;although possibly not the unnumbered thirteenth, Symphony "In memoriam John Fussell"?
I got this information from Dundonnell at the Art Music Forum,who in turn received this news from John Quinn,via the Musicweb Message Board.
Great news indeed! I look forward greatly to hearing Symphony 1. Haven't got round to playing the Chinese Symphony yet.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on December 02, 2016, 03:52:02 AM
Yes,I keep 'plugging' it,don't I?!! ::) ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: radicle on January 17, 2017, 01:40:10 AM
You guys are awesome. The best-fifth-symphony-by-a-20th-C-composer thread sent me bumbling through YouTube where I bumped into Daniel Jones in the form of his Symphony No. 11. (How did I get to 11 from 5?) It was immediately appealing, and reminiscent of Holmboe . . . checking back here I find a thread devoted to Jones, and sure enough, I should have expected to like it. That it looks like he's in the process of being "rediscovered" only adds to my good fortune.
So where should I go next? No. 4? 8?
Sadly, my library is cancelling its Freegal contract, effective tomorrow, so I'll be mostly dependent on YouTube for new listening.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on January 17, 2017, 02:23:10 AM
You guys are awesome. The best-fifth-symphony-by-a-20th-C-composer thread sent me bumbling through YouTube where I bumped into Daniel Jones in the form of his Symphony No. 11. (How did I get to 11 from 5?) It was immediately appealing, and reminiscent of Holmboe . . . checking back here I find a thread devoted to Jones, and sure enough, I should have expected to like it. That it looks like he's in the process of being "rediscovered" only adds to my good fortune.
So where should I go next? No. 4? 8?
Sadly, my library is cancelling its Freegal contract, effective tomorrow, so I'll be mostly dependent on YouTube for new listening.

Good to hear that you enjoy his music. Of the ones I know I have just been discovering Symphony 4, in memory of his friend Dylan Thomas. I find it moving in an understated way which avoids all sentimentality - a fine work although it took me a while to appreciate it. My other favourites are 6,8 and 9. I have ordered a new release of Symphonies 1 and 10 on Lyrita which, according to the sample extracts, sound great. For those who've ordered this new release through Amazon and, like me, have got fed up with waiting I have now ordered it today direct from Lyrita. The CD is in stock and they couldn't understand why there is a problem with Amazon deliveries. I have cancelled my Amazon order. Lyrita told me they would send it out first class today.  :)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on January 19, 2017, 12:54:32 PM
A very enthusiastic review of the new Daniel Jones cd from Lyrita on Musicweb,for those who haven't seen it!

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2017/Jan/Jones_sys_SRCD358.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2017/Jan/Jones_sys_SRCD358.htm)

Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on January 19, 2017, 01:36:41 PM
A very enthusiastic review of the new Daniel Jones cd from Lyrita on Musicweb,for those who haven't seen it!

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2017/Jan/Jones_sys_SRCD358.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2017/Jan/Jones_sys_SRCD358.htm)
Thanks. Having waited for months for Amazon to deliver the CD and given up it arrived the next day after ordering it directly from Lyrita. I haven't much to add to the excellent review on Musicweb except that the First Symphony, I think shows the influence of Sibelius, in particular the last movement with its echoes of 'Nightride and Sunrise'. I found both symphonies to be very rewarding listening, especially Symphony 1. I find Jones to be a more rewarding symphonist than Robert Simpson for example.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: calyptorhynchus on January 19, 2017, 10:33:41 PM
I find Jones to be a more rewarding symphonist than Robert Simpson for example.

Whoa, steady on!

 :)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on January 20, 2017, 12:32:30 AM
Whoa, steady on!

 :)
I need to listen to more Simpson - I like symphonies 1 and 3. Many enthuse about No.9 and this is one I struggle with but I will persevere with it.  :)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: calyptorhynchus on January 20, 2017, 12:08:21 PM
I need to listen to more Simpson - I like symphonies 1 and 3. Many enthuse about No.9 and this is one I struggle with but I will persevere with it.  :)
I struggle to name a Simpson symphony I find weaker than the rest (6 maybe?). My favourites vary but always include 8, 10, 11. Number 4 is a perfect 'classical' symphony LOL

Meanwhile I preservere with the Jones symphonies....
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on January 20, 2017, 02:12:39 PM
I struggle to name a Simpson symphony I find weaker than the rest (6 maybe?). My favourites vary but always include 8, 10, 11. Number 4 is a perfect 'classical' symphony LOL

Meanwhile I preservere with the Jones symphonies....

Yes, keep going with the Jones symphonies.  8)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Maestro267 on January 23, 2017, 10:51:22 AM
A quick heads-up that Daniel Jones' Violin Concerto will be performed and broadcast live on BBC Radio 3 on Friday afternoon.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: lescamil on January 23, 2017, 12:55:44 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08bbn1l

This is the program. Lots of great Welsh music on here. I'll be recording it for sure.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on March 07, 2017, 06:14:34 AM
I hadn't seen this review.

http://theclassicalreviewer.blogspot.co.uk/2017/02/a-much-welcome-release-of-daniel-jones.html
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on March 07, 2017, 06:21:51 AM
Good news!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on March 23, 2017, 03:36:02 AM
Yet another enthusiastic review of the new Daniel Jones Lyrita cd.

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2017/Mar/Jones_sys_SRCD358.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2017/Mar/Jones_sys_SRCD358.htm)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on April 11, 2017, 03:00:30 AM
I posted this a little while ago on the "What are you listening to now" thread. I'm still listening to it.

"I'm listening to a cd-r of Daniel Jones' Second Symphony,now. One of this Welsh composers finest. Lyrita are going to be releasing this on cd. I know he's been called a Welsh Vagn Holmboe. I don't know about that;but he is very good. You can almost see the Welsh land/sea-scapes;but he's not as pictorial as Bax. This is more craggy;but his use of the orchestra is quite dazzling,once you get past the deceptively tough exterior. Like the best symphonies,I always feel this music is going somewhere".

(http://i.imgur.com/jBzpRpb.jpg)

Marvellous! I think it's amongst the most satisfyng and absorbing British (and Welsh!) symphonies I have ever listened to! Some of it is quite Sibelian. Brooding landscapes spring to mind.....and also,of the mind! I can understand why this music appeals to some Brianites (Ahoy there,Johan! :) ;D). I don't want to go over the top,but this really is good!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Maestro267 on June 26, 2017, 01:42:51 AM
I'm listening to a cd-r of Daniel Jones' Second Symphony,now. One of this Welsh composers finest. Lyrita are going to be releasing this on cd.

On August 4th, according to Amazon. Coupled with the 11th Symphony. BBC Welsh SO conducted by Bryden Thomson.



Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on June 26, 2017, 02:19:25 AM
I've been playing Symphony 1 on Lyrita a great deal with increasing pleasure.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on July 06, 2017, 10:59:16 AM
This is the sort of Lp cover I used to like. "Submerged wreck in Rhossili Bay,Gower". I hadn't seen this one until now. The one I used to borrow from my library had a different sleeve. I think it had Daniel Jones on the front?!! (Haven't got time to trawl sleeves now!). Of course,a new Daniel Jones cd will be out before very long (see right).

(http://i.imgur.com/q4Cyu7x.jpg)  (http://i.imgur.com/PljGlvv.jpg)

Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on July 06, 2017, 12:16:17 PM
Exciting news. I'm still enjoying Symphony 1 which I play regularly.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on July 07, 2017, 10:01:38 AM
Thought Symphony 2 sounded rather dense on You Tube. I will wait a bit before rushing out to order it.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on July 07, 2017, 10:48:03 AM
Hm! His Second is definitely one of my favourites. Right from that opening. Haven't you got an off air recording? They did have it at the AMF. It might not be there now,of course,as they take them off when a cd recording is announced,or released.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on July 07, 2017, 10:49:34 AM
I'm suprised. I think it's one of his most lyrical and approachable.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on July 07, 2017, 12:49:43 PM
Hm! His Second is definitely one of my favourites. Right from that opening. Haven't you got an off air recording? They did have it at the AMF. It might not be there now,of course,as they take them off when a cd recording is announced,or released.
I'll listen again and no doubt get the Lyrita CD in due course. I'm sure I'll come to like it in the end.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on July 12, 2017, 04:20:47 AM
I listened to it again after reading your post. The Second is undoubtedly one of my favourite symphonies by Daniel Jones. It has one of the best openings and I have always regarded it as one of his most approachable symphonies. Sine I first heard it,of course. It has also had received of the most enthusiastic posts at the Art Music Forum. I know Johan likes it,too!! To sum up,I am rather surprised at your reaction!! It struck me immediately as Jones at his most lyrical and romantic,in some ways (that wonderful opening). It seems a sort of halfway point between the early more expansive Jones,and the more compact symphonies that followed. That said,you don't have to be immediately bowled over by it!! ;D

I bought the Lyrita cd of his Symphonies 1 & 11,yesterday. A new copy. It hasn't been posted yet. I had to hold off for a while,unfortunately! Bills to pay,and that sort of thing!! :( ;D I should be ready to acquire the next Daniel Jones then,when it's released in August. I had a cd-r of the First Symphony,from an off air recording uploaded to the AMF,and have been enjoying this fine symphony. The recording is perfectly listenable,but afflicted by some severe "wobble" in a few places (either wow & flutter or damage to the tape?). It will be wonderful to hear it without these impediments to my enjoyment! Incidentally,the photos used for the Lyrita cds are excellent.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on July 13, 2017, 01:09:16 PM
My brand new cd of Daniel Jones' Symphonies 1 & 11 is in the post,apparently. I'm looking forward to receiving this. The off air tape had some wobbly bits. I can at last hear it in all it's glory. I would have liked to have purchased it earlier;but I've got to keep the old wolf from the door!! ::) :( ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on July 13, 2017, 01:22:54 PM
My brand new cd of Daniel Jones' Symphonies 1 & 11 is in the post,apparently. I'm looking forward to receiving this. The off air tape had some wobbly bits. I can at last hear it in all it's glory. I would have liked to have purchased it earlier;but I've got to keep the old wolf from the door!! ::) :( ;D
No 1 is great and No.11 is growing on me. You should really like the disc.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on July 14, 2017, 02:55:39 AM
Of course,I should have said No's 1 & 10. I was in bed by the time I remembered!! So far,I prefer No's 1-9. Not that I dislike the later ones. I feel that Daniel Jones and Havergal Brian have something in common here. The cragginess,but not without lyricism. There's a good deal of variety in the orchestration. We're not talking Rubbra,Cooke or Wordsworth here. Brian and Jones' orchestration is often quite colourful;but both with that craggy,slightly tough hewn exterior. Daniel Jones' early symphonies are more romantic,though. I see the lanscapes and seascapes of South Wales in the symphonies of Daniel Jones. Brian's evoke a more internal landcape. Although,his first and third,especially the third,are an exception. The Gothic being very romantic in places. Particularly the third movement. His third,often cited as 'Brucknerian',evoking the obvious landcapes (and forests). The later symphonies of Daniel Jones,like those of Brian,are less easy to follow in this respect. They are much more concentrated,the logic more elliptical;although the shifts in direction and mood are less abrupt and disconcerting than those of Brian. I think Daniel Jones just gets allot tougher. Brian alleviates some of his later symphonies with more colour and even some lyricism (No's 11-21?). Not that Daniel Jones doesn't. The use of bells in the tenth? Anyway,I need to listen allot more before I can really get to grips with this. Having all the symphonies of Daniel Jones on cd really should help in this respect. As to the sound quality! Thank you very much to whoever provided those off air tapes;but there really is no comparison.
I must add. I do find it slightly shocking that it has taken this long to get more Daniel Jones symphonies on cd. Just listening to his First symphony. This really is a most excellent,satisfying symphony to listen to. I'm really impressed. The tenth will be a tougher nut;but,like late Brian,I think it's one worth cracking!!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on July 14, 2017, 03:38:02 AM
I'm listening to the tenth symphony. This has a brooding lyricism. It's just sterner and more concentrated. There was even a bit of Herrmann popping,very briefly, in one place. (I'm listening via cordless headphones,so I can't see the cd display!) The logic is easier to flow than late Brian. The 'brooding lyricism' I do like! This is the sort of premiere release that really does make you think,"Why,oh why,hasn't this been recorded before?!!" ::) Hearing these symphonies in such good sound quality really is a revelation after those off air tapes. BIS should be recording a brand new cycle forthwith!! But no matter,we've got these! :)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on August 09, 2017, 01:51:53 AM
On now. I find his symphonies very absorbing listening. A bit like Brian in a way. Craggy,but plenty of colourful orchestration to keep me listening. I can see the seascapes and landscapes of South Wales in this music;but there's no Baxian nature painting,as such. The first symphony has a rather nordic feel to it,in some ways, I think vandermolen referred to it as Sibelian (?). Maybe? It doesn't sound like Sibelius,though. A little austere in demeanour,but very lyrical. I love it. (I like the tenth,too). So much,I bought the new Lyrita cd of his Symphony No 2 & 11,last night.

(http://i.imgur.com/mibzcKP.jpg)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on August 09, 2017, 03:49:18 AM
I've often felt,listening to this music,that Daniel Jones is a composer who might appeal to Brianites. There's the craggy,ruggedness of his creations;tempered with a degree of lyricism and colour. Also the gradual evolution towards more terse,compact structures. That said,they don't get quite as tough and craggy as Brian's later symphonies!! A review in Records International,of Daniel Jones' Second Symphony,on the newly released Lyrita cd,seems to 'agree' with me. The slow movement beginning gently  enough,then moving into "a brooding landscape with the granitic ruggedness of Havergal Brian at his sternest,and something of the gloom of Sibelius' darkling crepuscular forests." Again,I can recognise that last part of his description. There is a Sibelian feel to the landscapes of the first and second symphonies. That brooding,desolation. The introspection. Daniel Jones,like Brian,has his own voice,though. While the symphonies of Daniel Jones are full of the beauty and ruggedness of the sea and landscapes of South Wales (especially the sea) this isn't nature literal painting. It's more of a landscape of the mind. Not sure about those forests,though! Wales has got some lovely woodland,but,on the whole,most of them are disappointingly small! :(
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on August 09, 2017, 03:52:00 AM
Just listened to the Second Symphony. I noticed the theme from the first movement is developed in the finale and also ends the piece. I like the way Jones uses the orchestra. His woodwind writing has a very 'Nordic' feel, a word Colin used and which is quite apt. His harmonic language can be quite dissonant. Jones' style hasn't that generic middle-of-the-century feel, it is quite personal. The percussion is used in a magical way (in the first movement especially), conjuring up a world of wonder and childhood.

First impressions, these.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on August 09, 2017, 03:55:45 AM
I agree with Colin ('Dundonnell') who sadly doesn't post here anymore that there is an appealing 'Nordic' seriousness' about Jones's symphonies which is appealing. I'm also reminded of Holmboe when I listen to his music. Thanks to the recent revival of this thread I've been listening to the Lyrita CD with symphonies 4,7 and 8 and appreciating them as never before even though I owned the original LPs.

By the way cilgwyn I realise that your avatar image is of Daniel Jones. Hitherto I had assumed that it was a photo of yourself!
 8)
Yeeikes!! But Holmboe not Sibelius,perhaps?! ;D The Avatar? Yeah! I wish!! :( ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on August 09, 2017, 04:02:13 AM
I think I'm going to listen to that Second Symphony again. I liked it a lot in 2011, but can't remember a thing... 
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on August 09, 2017, 04:12:14 AM
I wonder? Is that a good....or bad,thing?!!

Incidentally the transfers of Symphonies No's 1 & 10 on the Lyrita cd,are definitely superior to the off-air recordings uploaded to the Art Music Forum,or the one of the First Symphony on Youtube,which has a "wobble" in one or two places. I think the original tape must have got damaged in some way,at these points. The upload of the Second,and the recordings uploaded to Youtube,are pretty listenable;if you are trying to resist. I did for a few months.................but the wobbly bits got to me in the end!! ??? :( ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on August 09, 2017, 04:19:45 AM
Music is an evanescent art - I remember the quality of the music, and the magical atmosphere, but no details. I knew it was a good piece, and I still know it...
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on August 09, 2017, 04:44:32 AM
I understand what you mean,Johan. And you'll 'know' it,when you hear it again.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on August 13, 2017, 04:17:51 AM
I've listened to the new Daniel Jones cd,now. After listening to it in such greatly improved sound,I can see why vandermolen was a little perturbed,after enjoing the Symphony No 1,so much. It begins innocently enough. A lovely opening,actually. One of his best,possibly? After that things get decidedly more craggy!! Dundonnell,at the Art Music Forum,has listened too! He observes that the Second Symphony is (his words) "perhaps a trifle overlong and discursive". Two listens later,I have to concede that Dundonnell and vandermolen are probably right to feel a little unsure about this opus! Not that it's all bad. Overlong and discursive it may be;but there is still allot of good music making here. One of the other movements has a particularly lovely and arresting opening. Also,it does give you something to wrestle with (metaphorically speaking,Kendo Nagaski,being too old....although,he'd still probably win! ;D). It seems  that Daniel Jones was moving from the more overtly,romantic and expansive style of his first symphony,to the more craggy,compact symphonies that came later. This may explain the inconsistencies here? As such,I do feel this is an important piece of the jigsaw,and I am still very glad I bought it. Furthermore,Dundonnell is impressed by the Eleventh Symphony,describing it as "concise and taut". Although,"perhaps without quite the power of No 10". Who knows,once the cycle is complete on cd,you may finally,be tempted to buy it,after all?!! :-\ ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on August 13, 2017, 05:10:42 AM
I've listened to the new Daniel Jones cd,now. After listening to it in such greatly improved sound,I can see why vandermolen was a little perturbed,after enjoing the Symphony No 1,so much. It begins innocently enough. A lovely opening,actually. One of his best,possibly? After that things get decidedly more craggy!! Dundonnell,at the Art Music Forum,has listened too! He observes that the Second Symphony is (his words) "perhaps a trifle overlong and discursive". Two listens later,I have to concede that Dundonnell and vandermolen are probably right to feel a little unsure about this opus! Not that it's all bad. Overlong and discursive it may be;but there is still allot of good music making here. One of the other movements has a particularly lovely and arresting opening. Also,it does give you something to wrestle with (metaphorically speaking,Kendo Nagaski,being too old....although,he'd still probably win! ;D). It seems  that Daniel Jones was moving from the more overtly,romantic and expansive style of his first symphony,to the more craggy,compact symphonies that came later. This may explain the inconsistencies here? As such,I do feel this is an important piece of the jigsaw,and I am still very glad I bought it. Furthermore,Dundonnell is impressed by the Eleventh Symphony,describing it as "concise and taut". Although,"perhaps without quite the power of No 10". Who knows,once the cycle is complete on cd,you may finally,be tempted to buy it,after all?!! :-\ ;D
Thanks cilgwyn for the very helpful review. I'm sure I'll get round to this CD sooner or later but, for the time being, I'll look forward to receiving the Fricker and George Lloyd new releases on Lyrita.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: André on August 13, 2017, 06:53:38 AM
I have symphonies 2, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 12, as well as a cello concerto. I like everything of his I've heard, but count his achievement in the string quartet medium as totally original and engrossing, probably even more than his symphonic output. That being said, I'm overdue for a re-listen to all of it
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on August 16, 2017, 07:50:45 AM
I'm listening to the Lyrita release of the Second Symphony again,now. Hm! It might be a little more discursive than the First,but there's allot to like here. The second movement is particularly good. The opening to it,quite magical. There is an austere beauty here. Very lyrical. A nordic feel to the soundworld;although we're talking South Wales,here! Wonderful! :)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on August 16, 2017, 10:03:15 AM
I'm listening to the Lyrita release of the Second Symphony again,now. Hm! It might be a little more discursive than the First,but there's allot to like here. The second movement is particularly good. The opening to it,quite magical. There is an austere beauty here. Very lyrical. A nordic feel to the soundworld;although we're talking South Wales,here! Wonderful! :)
Good to know.
PS the combination of your enthusiastic recommendation along with Johan H's positive comment on You Tube has meant that my nerve has cracked and I have now ordered the Daniel Jones Symphony 2 CD on Lyrita along with a surprisingly cheaper Lyrita CD featuring Edmund Rubbra's Violin Concerto.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on August 16, 2017, 11:19:30 AM
Try the second movement on it's own. Even if you are unsure about the symphony as a whole,I think you may agree about the opening of that movement.....and possibly,the remainder of it? I went onto enjoy the third movement,but unfortunately,struggling with a 25 year old washing machine that may finally be on it's last lap,took my attention away! (Fingers crossed,it's just clogged!) Interesting to discover,when I was looking for helpful information,on the web,that old washing machines,with mechanical timers,like this have their own equivalent of the GMG. Lot's of enthusiastic debates there about things like square loading doors vs the currently favoured round kind! Perhaps,I'll join. I rather like the way it powers down then revs up when it goes into it's final 1100rpm spin,myself! :o And hopefully,my neighbour likes it too?! Made in Merthyr Tydfil,too! A Welsh washing machine!! ??? ;D

Back to Daniel Jones!!! ??? ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on August 16, 2017, 11:46:27 AM
Try the second movement on it's own. Even if you are unsure about the symphony as a whole,I think you may agree about the opening of that movement.....and possibly,the remainder of it? I went onto enjoy the third movement,but unfortunately,struggling with a 25 year old washing machine that may finally be on it's last lap,took my attention away! (Fingers crossed,it's just clogged!) Interesting to discover,when I was looking for helpful information,on the web,that old washing machines,with mechanical timers,like this have their own equivalent of the GMG. Lot's of enthusiastic debates there about things like square loading doors vs the currently favoured round kind! Perhaps,I'll join. I rather like the way it powers down then revs up when it goes into it's final 1100rpm spin,myself! :o And hopefully,my neighbour likes it too?! Made in Merthyr Tydfil,too! A Welsh washing machine!! ??? ;D

Back to Daniel Jones!!! ??? ;D
Actually I listened to more of Symphony 2 on You Tube and liked it a lot more than on first hearing so I know that I will not regret the purchase. Good luck with the washing machine. I've  often fantasised about a microwave oven which also plays classical CDs. There must be an online group somewhere. When one of our cats sadly developed a vaccine associated cancer (which I never heard of) I had incredible practical and emotional support from an online American group devoted to this sad problem. Back to Daniel Jones.  ::)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: André on August 19, 2017, 12:24:07 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71p0tbRGCaL._SX522_.jpg)

Second listening this week of the Lyrita disc of symphonies 4, 7 and 8.

It's hard to to think of a better introduction to the composer than these wonderful works and interpretations. Symphony no 4 from 1954 is dedicated to his close friend Dylan Thomas (Jones wrote some music for him). A 3-movement work that packs loads of emotions and musical substance in a self-imposed severely economical language. Symphony no 7 is my favourite - or at least its 2nd movement espressivo, redolent of Sibelius' 7th in its whimsical whiffs of the welsh soil. Oh, and the last movement with its startlingly shostakovichian string tremolos (symphonies 6:I and 11:1 come to mind).

Symphony 8 was written in lockstep with no 7. Both are dated from the year 1972. Like RVW's and Malcolm Arnold's symphonies, those of Jones sound strikingly different from one another, yet they clearly flow from the same fount of ideas and tools. No 8 reminds me a bit of RVW 8 in its use of odd instrumental combinations, but it is more cryptic, progressing from movement to movement (5 of them, with multiple subdivisions) as if disinterested from what went before, exploring new things with unceasing curiosity. A bit like a 3 year old's attention span, constantly shifting to new centers of interest. The movement's titles give away the game plan (see below):

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71iFgBakXEL._SX522_.jpg)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on August 20, 2017, 02:25:15 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71p0tbRGCaL._SX522_.jpg)

Second listening this week of the Lyrita disc of symphonies 4, 7 and 8.

It's hard to to think of a better introduction to the composer than these wonderful works and interpretations. Symphony no 4 from 1954 is dedicated to his close friend Dylan Thomas (Jones wrote some music for him). A 3-movement work that packs loads of emotions and musical substance in a self-imposed severely economical language. Symphony no 7 is my favourite - or at least its 2nd movement espressivo, redolent of Sibelius' 7th in its whimsical whiffs of the welsh soil. Oh, and the last movement with its startlingly shostakovichian string tremolos (symphonies 6:I and 11:1 come to mind).

Symphony 8 was written in lockstep with no 7. Both are dated from the year 1972. Like RVW's and Malcolm Arnold's symphonies, those of Jones sound strikingly different from one another, yet they clearly flow from the same fount of ideas and tools. No 8 reminds me a bit of RVW 8 in its use of odd instrumental combinations, but it is more cryptic, progressing from movement to movement (5 of them, with multiple subdivisions) as if disinterested from what went before, exploring new things with unceasing curiosity. A bit like a 3 year old's attention span, constantly shifting to new centers of interest. The movement's titles give away the game plan (see below):

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71iFgBakXEL._SX522_.jpg)
That's a great CD Andre and I had the Dylan Thomas In Memoriam symphony on LP. My CD of Symphony 2 etc has arrived.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: André on August 20, 2017, 03:18:37 AM
Let us know about the 2nd, Jeffrey !

I only have mp3 of an aircheck of the first 2 movements to form an opinion... ::)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on August 20, 2017, 06:32:12 AM
I've collected the first two cd's in the current Lyrita series. After a little,initial,indecision of what to make of the predominantly lyrical First's more craggy successor,I am beginning to find the Symphony No 2 as absorbing as it's predecessor. The second movement with that magical opening,really decided it for me. This was his last symphony in this more expansive form. In this respect I think there may have been a bit of experimentation here. His symphonies became much more concise after this. The second seems to mix the more predominantly lyrical vein of the earlier symphony with a more craggy,terse,touch hewn demeanour. In that respect I think it is possibly even more absorbing than it's predecessor,in some respects. The First symphony remains my favourite,of the two;but in a way the tougher,more cryptic nature of this symphony gives you a bit more to get your proverbial teeth into.......and there's allot of lyricism and beauty here. That second movement in particular. Oh,and I mustn't forget the tenth symphony. More on that in a later post!!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on August 22, 2017, 01:08:11 AM
Following Andre's post I listened to No.4 (the Dylan Thomas one) which I liked very much, although I think that the best music is in the finale. No.2 up soon.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on August 27, 2017, 04:05:25 PM
A Musicweb review of the new Lyrita cd release of Daniel Jones' Symphonies 2 & 11:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2017/Aug/Jones_syms_SRCD364.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2017/Aug/Jones_syms_SRCD364.htm)

Not enough about the actual music on the cd,in this review,imho!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on August 28, 2017, 06:52:48 AM
Also,the first time I've seen the compositions of Daniel Jones described as "dropped balls"! :o ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on December 19, 2018, 06:17:38 AM
I seem to have acquired the Chandos 2 cd set of Daniel Jones' String Quartets for around £19! I just hope it will be in the "Very good" condition described. That seller hasn't let me down yet. I've been hoping to acquire this set for a long,long time;but it's always horribly expensive!

(https://i.imgur.com/mzIudeK.jpg)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: André on December 19, 2018, 06:27:35 AM
One of the most interesting and rewarding SQ sets I know. Hope you like it !
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on December 19, 2018, 07:59:43 AM
In the right thread,now!! ::)
 
For anyone who doesn't know;Dundonnell,who was a member here for a long time,and now 'resides' at the Art Music Forum,has "annoyed" (his word! ;D) Lyrita,via the Musicweb Message Board,into revealing that (to quote Lyrita) "Daniel Jones Symphonies 3 & 5 are scheduled for release in June 2019 with Symphonies 12, 13 and Cantata currently scheduled for November 2019". They will also be recording,previously unheard and unrecorded piano music,by Daniel Jones,in the New Year. They are hoping that the first of these  will be released on cd,in the second half of the year. Incidentally,which "Cantata" are they referring to? The,1958 The Country Beyond the Stars, cantata after Henry Vaughan,is already available on a Lyrita cd.

Yes,I should have emphasised that Dundonnell was being humorous. Referring to the manner in which he appeared to have worn Lyrita into revealing some of their release plans. The relevant posts can be seen & read on the Musicweb Message Board and at the Art Music Forum.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on December 19, 2018, 08:04:52 AM
One of the most interesting and rewarding SQ sets I know. Hope you like it !
Andre: Is the Daniel Jones String Qt set a slimline or old style "fatbox"? I presume (?) it's the latter,because it's an earlier release from this company. I may be wrong,of course?!

Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on December 19, 2018, 10:19:36 AM
Just wondering?! There's so little room here! I could get rid of some Gilbert and Sullivan,of course?!! ::) ;D

(https://i.imgur.com/PQ0q0JO.jpg)      (https://i.imgur.com/mzIudeK.jpg)

This?                                                                                                                      For this?!! (gulp! ??? :()
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on December 19, 2018, 10:21:13 AM
Coincidentally listening to Daniel Jones's fine Symphony 1.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on December 19, 2018, 10:32:13 AM
My copy of the String Quartets has been dispatched,apparently! To get me in the mood (although,I'll probably have to wait,being Xmas?) I think I will follow you,by putting on Daniel Jones' First Symphony,too! :) Nice to see a painting of the sea on the front of that St Qt set,by the way!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: André on December 19, 2018, 12:02:56 PM
Andre: Is the Daniel Jones String Qt set a slimline or old style "fatbox"? I presume (?) it's the latter,because it's an earlier release from this company. I may be wrong,of course?!

It’s not slim. 2cd box, same size as most opera sets. You’re in for a treat !
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: André on December 19, 2018, 12:03:55 PM
In the right thread,now!! ::)
 
For anyone who doesn't know;Dundonnell,who was a member here for a long time,and now 'resides' at the Art Music Forum,has "annoyed" (his word! ;D) Lyrita,via the Musicweb Message Board,into revealing that (to quote Lyrita) "Daniel Jones Symphonies 3 & 5 are scheduled for release in June 2019 with Symphonies 12, 13 and Cantata currently scheduled for November 2019". They will also be recording,previously unheard and unrecorded piano music,by Daniel Jones,in the New Year. They are hoping that the first of these  will be released on cd,in the second half of the year. Incidentally,which "Cantata" are they referring to? The,1958 The Country Beyond the Stars, cantata after Henry Vaughan,is already available on a Lyrita cd.

Yes,I should have emphasised that Dundonnell was being humorous. Referring to the manner in which he appeared to have worn Lyrita into revealing some of their release plans. The relevant posts can be seen & read on the Musicweb Message Board and at the Art Music Forum.

Good to hear from Dundonnel ! And good to hear from Lyrita, too !!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Maestro267 on December 20, 2018, 10:11:10 AM
Great to hear of potential release dates for future Daniel Jones releases, even if they are some time off yet.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: cilgwyn on December 23, 2018, 08:43:21 AM
Playing here,now! The eight String quartets of Daniel Jones. These are good as some admirers say they are. Actually,mine is in a slimline jewel case (a later reissue?) and appears to be in very good condition. I'm hoping there will be no problems with the cd's. This is fantastic music. I can understand why someone reckoned that his best music was in these quartets,not the symphonies (much as I love,them!). These are very absorbing. They should be better known. Nice booklet notes by someone who knew him  (Giles Easterbrook) & made a performing edition (with Malcolm Binney) of the eighth;which Jones was working on,the morning he died. The painting on the front is,'Seascape by Karl Pierre Daubigny,by the way! And probably derived from one of the artists trip to Brittany (the Celtic connection!).

(https://i.imgur.com/7Byk00h.jpg)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Irons on March 14, 2019, 02:02:56 AM
That's a great CD Andre and I had the Dylan Thomas In Memoriam symphony on LP. My CD of Symphony 2 etc has arrived.

(https://i.imgur.com/msnP365.jpg)

A recording from EMI in 1972 made by Bishop and Eltham. Lyrita had no input whatsoever and yet for CD issued on that label probably for no other reason then Daniel Jones being British. I find it sad that the rich legacy of labels of the past is diluted in this way. A Decca recording would have a certain sound that was unlike EMI, RCA unlike Mercury and so on. Today it as likely that a Philips recording is released on Decca or vice the versa. Not that makes any difference as they are just names, what made them what they were is long gone. Same could be said of orchestras and conductors of today but that is a rant of another day! :-X

I thought the Daniel Jones 4th Symphony outstanding and perplexed it is not better known. I watched an excellent TV documentary on Dylan Thomas a few years ago which made a big impression, this for me added extra meaning to the symphony. I have not listened to the 7th yet.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on March 14, 2019, 02:26:00 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/msnP365.jpg)

A recording from EMI in 1972 made by Bishop and Eltham. Lyrita had no input whatsoever and yet for CD issued on that label probably for no other reason then Daniel Jones being British. I find it sad that the rich legacy of labels of the past is diluted in this way. A Decca recording would have a certain sound that was unlike EMI, RCA unlike Mercury and so on. Today it as likely that a Philips recording is released on Decca or vice the versa. Not that makes any difference as they are just names, what made them what they were is long gone. Same could be said of orchestras and conductors of today but that is a rant of another day! :-X

I thought the Daniel Jones 4th Symphony outstanding and perplexed it is not better known. I watched an excellent TV documentary on Dylan Thomas a few years ago which made a big impression, this for me added extra meaning to the symphony. I have not listened to the 7th yet.
Here's the LP I had:
(http://)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Maestro267 on March 15, 2019, 07:44:23 AM
That looks a lot like Worm's Head on that album cover. On the very tip of the Gower Peninsula.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on March 16, 2019, 02:57:09 AM
That looks a lot like Worm's Head on that album cover. On the very tip of the Gower Peninsula.
Thanks - interesting to know. I like the photo.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Irons on March 21, 2019, 07:47:23 AM
It never ceases to amaze! Daniel Jones was not on my radar at all and since reading this thread he seems to be popping up all over. Quite surprised to come across this recording at an Oxfam shop. Any good?

(https://i.imgur.com/t30wIio.jpg)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on March 21, 2019, 09:22:47 AM
It never ceases to amaze! Daniel Jones was not on my radar at all and since reading this thread he seems to be popping up all over. Quite surprised to come across this recording at an Oxfam shop. Any good?

(https://i.imgur.com/t30wIio.jpg)

Looks like a great LP! Mathias's first is my favourite of his works and I have enjoyed all the Daniel Jones symphonies which I have heard.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: André on March 21, 2019, 09:37:19 AM
Looks like a great LP! Mathias's first is my favourite of his works and I have enjoyed all the Daniel Jones symphonies which I have heard.

+1

The Jones seems to be the same performance that appears on a Lyrita cd. I have another performance of the Mathias symphony. It is an excellent work indeed.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Irons on March 22, 2019, 12:55:10 AM
Thank you both for your reply. I listened to the Jones symphony last night and plan to listen to Mathias tonight. I am impressed with the 6th, a strong work packed with ideas. Also an impressive symphonic layout with three movements with a break between each one and each movement in two parts without breaks, making for six movements altogether. I normally have difficulty distinguishing between sections of a work without breaks but not here as each part is a contrast with the other.

The sound is fabulous which is a big plus with such a dynamic work. I'm reading some of this between the lines, but the stereo recording was originally by Pye. Oriel, who I think may be the record label arm of the Welsh Arts Council, obtained the rights and subcontracted pressing and possibly re-mastering to Nimbus for reissue. Nimbus produced superb pressings and this record appears unplayed so delighted with purchase.

Helpfully listed are other Jones and Mathias recordings released under the auspices of the Welsh Arts Council . The one that caught my eye is, Jones: String Quartet, String Trio and Kettle Drum Sonata. Argo ZRG 771.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Peter Power Pop on March 29, 2019, 02:16:43 AM
I remember borrowing a Hoddinott LP from the library. On the cover was some cosmic image. Perhaps one of you know which symphony I will have been listening to. It did have power.

https://www.discogs.com/Alun-Hoddinott-David-Atherton-2-Conducting-The-London-Symphony-Orchestra-Symphony-No-3-Music-For-Orc/release/4710918 (https://www.discogs.com/Alun-Hoddinott-David-Atherton-2-Conducting-The-London-Symphony-Orchestra-Symphony-No-3-Music-For-Orc/release/4710918)

(https://img.discogs.com/8ReZaPB30zAV6wl7vsLJSl4-f50=/fit-in/600x612/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-4710918-1373030146-5637.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on March 29, 2019, 02:42:20 AM
Thank you! Alas, I remember it showed a planet or star in space. .
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Peter Power Pop on March 29, 2019, 02:44:38 AM
Thank you! Alas, I remember it showed a planet or star in space. .

That was the only one I could find that might be considered "cosmic".

I'll keep looking. (I'm now a man on a mission.)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on March 29, 2019, 02:46:53 AM
That was the only one I could find that might be considered "cosmic".

I'll keep looking. (I'm now a man on a mission.)


Good luck! I borrowed the record in the 1980s.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Peter Power Pop on March 29, 2019, 03:02:39 AM
How about this?

(https://i.ebayimg.com/thumbs/images/g/coUAAOSweOdcCWxM/s-l225.jpg)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on March 29, 2019, 03:04:09 AM
Nope... It was symphonic...
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on March 29, 2019, 03:13:45 AM
I think I found it...



Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Peter Power Pop on March 29, 2019, 03:14:51 AM
I think I found it...

Excellent.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Figaro on August 25, 2020, 11:45:04 AM
Anyone with any inside knowledge from Lyrita know what happened to the rest of the Daniel Jones symphony cycle? I saw somewhere that they planned to release discs with symphonies 3, 5, 12 and 13 in late 2019, but that came and went. Has the plan been cancelled or is it just delayed?
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on August 25, 2020, 10:14:12 PM
Anyone with any inside knowledge from Lyrita know what happened to the rest of the Daniel Jones symphony cycle? I saw somewhere that they planned to release discs with symphonies 3, 5, 12 and 13 in late 2019, but that came and went. Has the plan been cancelled or is it just delayed?
Yes, I'm aware of that as well as I collected all the other releases. Maybe worth trying to contact Lyrita about it.

PS I notice that Presto in the UK are doing 25% off all Lyrita recordings until 21st September this year.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: relm1 on March 24, 2021, 04:02:54 PM
This was such a wonderful release!  I really enjoyed it from start to finish.  Wonderful recorded sound and the music is taught, dramatic, and energetic.  I feel the pacing was a bit brisk but never felt rushed, just that there was more musical space to explore.  Highly recommended!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: André on March 24, 2021, 04:34:17 PM
This was such a wonderful release!  I really enjoyed it from start to finish.  Wonderful recorded sound and the music is taught, dramatic, and energetic.  I feel the pacing was a bit brisk but never felt rushed, just that there was more musical space to explore.  Highly recommended!

I look forward to listent to it. I intend to purchase it in a month or two (must digest my latest splurge)  ::).
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on March 25, 2021, 03:54:57 AM
Review:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2021/Mar/Jones-sys-SRCD390.htm
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: André on March 25, 2021, 04:52:46 AM
Thanks, Jeffrey. When I eventually get the disc I’ll include it in a comprehensive Jones-o-thon of the complete symphonies and string quartets.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Big David on April 16, 2021, 03:53:38 AM
Hi!  I'm fairly new on this board.  I listen to a lot of 20th century British music.  I've just finished listening to the disc of Daniel Jones' 3rd and 5th symphonies and I'm really impressed.  I've also been listening to the recent disc of music by David Matthews (A Vision of the Sea, which includes his 8th symphony) and Grace Williams' 2nd symphony.  I'd not heard of Grace Williams until recently and this work is a tremendous discovery.
I am a big fan of British cello concertos and collect all that are available.  I see that Daniel Jones wrote a cello concerto but it does not seem to be in the record catalogue.  Does anyone have it?  I'd be very grateful for a copy. 
I'm also on the lookout for recordings of the cello concertos by Ian Parrott and Francis Routh, if anyone has them.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: relm1 on April 16, 2021, 05:22:20 AM
Hi!  I'm fairly new on this board.  I listen to a lot of 20th century British music.  I've just finished listening to the disc of Daniel Jones' 3rd and 5th symphonies and I'm really impressed.  I've also been listening to the recent disc of music by David Matthews (A Vision of the Sea, which includes his 8th symphony) and Grace Williams' 2nd symphony.  I'd not heard of Grace Williams until recently and this work is a tremendous discovery.
I am a big fan of British cello concertos and collect all that are available.  I see that Daniel Jones wrote a cello concerto but it does not seem to be in the record catalogue.  Does anyone have it?  I'd be very grateful for a copy. 
I'm also on the lookout for recordings of the cello concertos by Ian Parrott and Francis Routh, if anyone has them.

Daniel Jones Cello Concerto is on youtube so a radio broadcast exists so it could be coming to Lyrita eventually.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Big David on April 16, 2021, 05:44:37 AM
Thanks.  I'll look out for that.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Irons on April 16, 2021, 06:02:23 AM
Hi!  I'm fairly new on this board.  I listen to a lot of 20th century British music.  I've just finished listening to the disc of Daniel Jones' 3rd and 5th symphonies and I'm really impressed.  I've also been listening to the recent disc of music by David Matthews (A Vision of the Sea, which includes his 8th symphony) and Grace Williams' 2nd symphony.  I'd not heard of Grace Williams until recently and this work is a tremendous discovery.
I am a big fan of British cello concertos and collect all that are available.  I see that Daniel Jones wrote a cello concerto but it does not seem to be in the record catalogue.  Does anyone have it?  I'd be very grateful for a copy. 
I'm also on the lookout for recordings of the cello concertos by Ian Parrott and Francis Routh, if anyone has them.

I can recommend highly a Naxos CD of Grace Williams chamber music. Chandos issued in three volumes, British cello sonatas. I have the third of the set and fully intend to purchase 1 & 2.

(https://i.imgur.com/X5p2ksY.jpg)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on April 16, 2021, 06:18:56 AM
I can recommend highly a Naxos CD of Grace Williams chamber music. Chandos issued in three volumes, British cello sonatas. I have the third of the set and fully intend to purchase 1 & 2.

(https://i.imgur.com/X5p2ksY.jpg)

This is a very fine disc Lol. I especially like the Foulds work:
(http://)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on April 16, 2021, 06:22:49 AM
Hi!  I'm fairly new on this board.  I listen to a lot of 20th century British music.  I've just finished listening to the disc of Daniel Jones' 3rd and 5th symphonies and I'm really impressed.  I've also been listening to the recent disc of music by David Matthews (A Vision of the Sea, which includes his 8th symphony) and Grace Williams' 2nd symphony.  I'd not heard of Grace Williams until recently and this work is a tremendous discovery.
I am a big fan of British cello concertos and collect all that are available.  I see that Daniel Jones wrote a cello concerto but it does not seem to be in the record catalogue.  Does anyone have it?  I'd be very grateful for a copy. 
I'm also on the lookout for recordings of the cello concertos by Ian Parrott and Francis Routh, if anyone has them.
The stand-out work for me, of those you mention, is Grace Williams's 2nd Symphony. I wasn't so keen on the Daniel Jones 3rd and 5th symphonies and need to give them another hearing. His 4th Symphony 'In Memory of Dylan Thomas' is, by far, my favourite. I enjoyed the new David Matthews CD, but not as much as the Dutton one featuring his 6th Symphony.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Irons on April 18, 2021, 05:14:38 AM
This is a very fine disc Lol. I especially like the Foulds work:
(http://)

Noted, Jeffrey.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Mountain Goat on May 16, 2021, 06:15:18 AM
I've just noticed that the Lyrita CD of Symphonies 3 and 5 is finally out, and about time too! That leaves just 12 and 13, which hopefully will be along soon.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Papy Oli on October 13, 2021, 01:12:22 AM
Spotted on Presto last night. Out 5th Nov.

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTI1NTQ5Ni4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2MzM5NDQ4MTl9)

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9255496--daniel-jones-symphonies-nos-12-13-come-my-way-my-truth-my-life (https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9255496--daniel-jones-symphonies-nos-12-13-come-my-way-my-truth-my-life)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on October 13, 2021, 08:54:22 AM
Spotted on Presto last night. Out 5th Nov.

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTI1NTQ5Ni4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2MzM5NDQ4MTl9)

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9255496--daniel-jones-symphonies-nos-12-13-come-my-way-my-truth-my-life (https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9255496--daniel-jones-symphonies-nos-12-13-come-my-way-my-truth-my-life)
Great cover image!
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: André on October 13, 2021, 10:31:14 AM
Great cover image!

The hair seems to be an extension of the mug’s beer foam !
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on October 13, 2021, 10:35:46 PM
The hair seems to be an extension of the mug’s beer foam !
Very good point!  ;D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on October 13, 2021, 11:02:35 PM
The hair seems to be an extension of the mug’s beer foam !


Plus a black Brahms beard (beerd).
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Irons on October 13, 2021, 11:20:11 PM
I just thought I wish I have what he's got. :P
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on October 13, 2021, 11:32:43 PM
He's probably raising a toast to his old friend and drinking companion Dylan Thomas. Jones's 4th Symphony (the finest I think) is 'In Memory of Dylan Thomas' (I was going to write 'DT' but that would look like a bad-taste joke).
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on October 13, 2021, 11:35:50 PM
He's probably raising a toast to his old friend and drinking companion Dylan Thomas. Jones's 4th Symphony (the finest I think) is 'In Memory of Dylan Thomas' (I was going to write 'DT' but that would look like a bad-taste joke).


Sometimes those are the funniest.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Roasted Swan on October 14, 2021, 12:01:19 AM
Another feather in the cap of the BBC...... and again Charles Groves and Bryden Thompson proving to be champions of underappreciated repertoire
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on October 14, 2021, 03:13:28 AM
Another feather in the cap of the BBC...... and again Charles Groves and Bryden Thompson proving to be champions of underappreciated repertoire
+1
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: foxandpeng on October 14, 2021, 03:29:34 AM
Spotted on Presto last night. Out 5th Nov.

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTI1NTQ5Ni4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2MzM5NDQ4MTl9)

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9255496--daniel-jones-symphonies-nos-12-13-come-my-way-my-truth-my-life (https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9255496--daniel-jones-symphonies-nos-12-13-come-my-way-my-truth-my-life)

Hopefully also headed to the streaming platforms also, as this is a release I would very much like to hear
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: André on October 14, 2021, 12:29:45 PM
Hopefully also headed to the streaming platforms also, as this is a release I would very much like to hear

The symphonies are already available as a download (3 different versions of 12 and 2 of 13 on youtube) but I will buy the Lyrita CD. I want to raise a glass to Jones as I listen to his music !  :D
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on October 14, 2021, 12:34:09 PM
The symphonies are already available as a download (3 different versions of 12 and 2 of 13 on youtube) but I will buy the Lyrita CD. I want to raise a glass to Jones as I listen to his music !  :D
Me too!  :)
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: foxandpeng on October 14, 2021, 12:35:57 PM
The symphonies are already available as a download (3 different versions of 12 and 2 of 13 on youtube) but I will buy the Lyrita CD. I want to raise a glass to Jones as I listen to his music !  :D

Cheers, Andre! I don't use YouTube nearly as  much as I could...
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: vandermolen on October 14, 2021, 01:38:07 PM
I've just listened to symphonies 12 and 13 on You Tube and was impressed by them both. I shall certainly be tracking down the new Lyrita CD.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: Maestro267 on November 06, 2021, 06:46:48 AM
The disc was released yesterday. I'm listening to No. 13 on Spotify currently.

I live in Swansea, so during the before-times I would go to the library where they have an archive of past programmes of the music festival, including the premiere performance of this symphony and a few others. In fact, the bound volume of the early festival programmes from the 1940s/50s has an insert of handwritten sheets including analysis from the Symphony No. 1.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: foxandpeng on November 06, 2021, 09:16:27 AM
The disc was released yesterday. I'm listening to No. 13 on Spotify currently.

I live in Swansea, so during the before-times I would go to the library where they have an archive of past programmes of the music festival, including the premiere performance of this symphony and a few others. In fact, the bound volume of the early festival programmes from the 1940s/50s has an insert of handwritten sheets including analysis from the Symphony No. 1.

Ooh  I've been watching for this recording, thank you. Can't wait to hear it after I've finished with my current selection of Gál #2. Jones is so worthwhile.
Title: Re: Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist
Post by: André on November 06, 2021, 09:39:21 AM
Cross-posted:

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTI1NTQ5Ni4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2MzUzNDI0NzR9)

Just started listening on Spotify.

From Presto’s website:
Quote

A fine example of Jones at his most succinct and incisive, the Twelfth Symphony (1985) was commissioned by the Civil and Public Services Association as a farewell gift to their retiring General Secretary, Ken Thomas The Twelfth Symphony was first performed by the BBC Welsh Symphony Orchestra and conductor Erich Bergel at a gala concert at St David's Hall, Cardiff on 26 September 1985. The score bears a superscription consisting of a brief quotation from Pushkin, which reads 'Yet one last tale, And my chronicle is ended'. Daniel Jones's Symphony in memory of John Fussell (Symphony No.13) (1992) was first performed by the BBC Welsh Symphony Orchestra and conductor Richard Hickox at the Brangwyn Hall, Swansea on 17 October 1992 at that year's Swansea Festival. The work is a personal tribute to a friend of the composer, who was Swansea's Director of Music and City Organist from 1970 until 1990, the year of his death. The cantata Come, my Way, my Truth, my Life (1987) was written in memory of John Aeron-Thomas, whose widow Margaret commissioned the work. A devout Christian, John Aeron-Thomas had been a founder-member of the Swansea Festival, who commissioned Jones's First Symphony. among other works. The text is taken from poetry by George Herbert (1593-1633), which details his sacred journey.