I keep coming across mentions of this composer's name, but have yet to hear any of his music. Any opinions from those who have? Recommended recordings?
Just say no to John Corigliano.
seriously though, I have been consistently dissapointed by this composers output. I too would like to be directed to anything of worth within his opus...
His Clarinet Concerto is very highly regarded by clarinetists, and seems to be the work everybody wants to learn. It's a great solo vehicle for a young virtuoso with fast fingers. It has some exciting stuff for the orchestra too. Stanley Drucker and Richard Stoltzman have both recorded it.
I quite like his score for the movie "The Red Violin"...
I actually really enjoyed his opera The Ghosts of Versailles, which was once available on video, with a distinctly starry cast that included Renee Fleming, Teresa Stratas and Marilyn Horne.
I also attended the London premiere of his AIDS symphony, given by Barenboim and the Chicago Symphony. I found it a very effective and moving piece. It was once available on CD, with the same orchestra and conductor.
Quote from: Morigan on January 21, 2008, 05:45:52 AM
I quite like his score for the movie "The Red Violin"...
I like that one too.
Other than that, only have fantasia on an ostinato and its a nice piece for piano.
His Symphony No.1 caused quite a stir when it first appeared, although it's been the victim of a critical backlash. I picked up Darenboim's CSO account for peanuts a few years ago. I got to know it through Slatkin's recording, so I inevitably prefer that one. He wrote a few amazing stretches of orchestral frenzy for Ken Russell's film Altered States. I haven't heard the recent recording, but I'd suspect it probably doesn't match up to the original soundtrack.
I can recommend this Naxos disc, with some of Corigliano's chamber music and a very accomplished string quartet by Jefferson Friedman, one of his students. Here's a review (http://www.fanfaremag.com/content/view/22795/10222/) on Fanfare.
--Bruce
Quote from: Guido on January 20, 2008, 10:48:04 AM
Just say no to John Corigliano.
seriously though, I have been consistently dissapointed by this composers output. I too would like to be directed to anything of worth within his opus...
reading the 2 reviews at the arkiv site sym 2, which Corg received a 2001 pulitzer prize for, pretty much keeps me from getting to know the composers works.
But I know what the OP is getting at.
there are dozens of composers whose names float around with some frequency on CM boards, but that should not imply its music you really ought to know.
I've tried quitea few of these "frequently mentioned" composers, and have not come away as nearly impressed as the mentioner would lead us to believe we should be impressed about the music.
I'm listening to Hartmann syms all weekend. Now thats impressive. refer to my daring brash comments over on the Hartmann forum.
Thats the Ondine release over at arkiv. there's too many "red flags" in the comments made by both reviewers for me to take the syms with any serious consideration.
He's got talent, but I've found some of his work rather thin. The AIDS symphony was very impressive on the two occasions I've heard it live. I heard an all-Corigliano program some years ago where the composer was heard in discussion with Ned Rorem and several of his piano and chamber pieces were played. The best of these as I recall was an early violin sonata played by Joshua Bell. There was also the piano fantasy already mentioned (using an ostinato based on the second movement of Beethoven's 7th), and a two-piano piece where the pianos were tuned in quarter-tones. Both fun but not memorable. When the Ghosts was premiered at the Met, you couldn't get tickets, but after seeing it on Public Television I was glad I didn't try. Pretty dull, and so was the Red Violin, which I saw choreographed by Peter Martins for the NYC Ballet. Overall a good, professional composer, but not earth-shattering.
Quote from: Sforzando on January 21, 2008, 11:03:08 AM
He's got talent, but I've found some of his work rather thin. The AIDS symphony was very impressive on the two occasions I've heard it live. I heard an all-Corigliano program some years ago where the composer was heard in discussion with Ned Rorem and several of his piano and chamber pieces were played. The best of these as I recall was an early violin sonata played by Joshua Bell. There was also the piano fantasy already mentioned (using an ostinato based on the second movement of Beethoven's 7th), and a two-piano piece where the pianos were tuned in quarter-tones. Both fun but not memorable. When the Ghosts was premiered at the Met, you couldn't get tickets, but after seeing it on Public Television I was glad I didn't try. Pretty dull, and so was the Red Violin, which I saw choreographed by Peter Martins for the NYC Ballet. Overall a good, professional composer, but not earth-shattering.
Thanks for sharing a very believable and modest review.
What gets on my nerves is when someone makes a list of late 20th C composers like this
"well lets see in late 20th C music we have composers to consider such as Corigliano, Pettersson , Tippett, also to consider is tom , dick, and harry"
ARRGGGGHHHHHHH >:D
so the seeker is led to believe all sorts of things, or not sure where to go next.
Oranges with oranges and lemons with lemons please.
Quote from: Morigan on January 21, 2008, 05:45:52 AM
I quite like his score for the movie "The Red Violin"...
He reused the material on a Chaconne for violin and orchestra and later on his Violin Concerto.
Quote from: paulb on January 21, 2008, 03:19:23 PM
What gets on my nerves is when someone makes a list of late 20th C composers like this
"well lets see in late 20th C music we have composers to consider such as Corigliano, Pettersson , Tippett, also to consider is tom , dick, and harry"
ARRGGGGHHHHHHH >:D
so the seeker is led to believe all sorts of things, or not sure where to go next.
Oranges with oranges and lemons with lemons please.
I'm not sure what you mean by this - What are you objecting too?
Quote from: Guido on January 22, 2008, 11:13:58 AM
I'm not sure what you mean by this - What are you objecting too?
I think what he means is that such lists do not accord with the valuations he places on each of these composers.
Tippett, by the way, is in my estimation the strongest of the three composers named.
QuoteTippett, by the way, is in my estimation the strongest of the three composers named.
I agree resolutely! It took me a long time to appreciate his music, as I saw him for some reason as writing a sort of higher class version of Rutter's music, but this bizarre belief must have been founded on just one or two pieces that I had heard (I don't remember which). I'm glad that I was wrong.
Quote from: Sforzando on January 22, 2008, 11:37:41 AM
I think what he means is that such lists do not accord with the valuations he places on each of these composers.
Tippett, by the way, is in my estimation the strongest of the three composers named.
as a GMG buddy once said about Tippett and I qoute Steve's exact words "yeah i tried Tippett, the most boring composer I know"
Some guy here by the name of Mark told me "defiently get Tippett", i did and concur with Steve whole-heartedly.
Guido this is what i am trying to get at.
Tippett is a great composer. Not a very good librettist, but great composer.
Quote from: Mark G. Simon on January 22, 2008, 02:47:28 PM
Tippett is a great composer. Not a very good librettist, but great composer.
HI Mark, you are not around much, then all of a sudden I mention your name, and here you are.
Well we all have our opinions, which make us individually unqiue, just like the composers we listen to.
Dvorak, uniquely copied Beethoven in syms 1-8 ;D
Surely we can stretch that sweeping generalisation to Dvorak's Ninth - the Scherzo is virtually a carbon copy of Beethoven's.
QuoteHI Mark, you are not around much, then all of a sudden I mention your name, and here you are.
I think it's just that certain members of the board don't feel the need to ejaculate their thoughts about every single subject going even if the comment will be banal and pointless. Not a personal attack on you paulb but a general observation about the posters that I do and don't respect.
Aside from Carter and Boulez, which other late twentieth (and 21st) century composers do you respect? I think I've seen you rubbish Ligeti, Lutoslawski and Penderecki before. Messiaen, Schnittke, Dutilleux? I'm guessing that these also do not compose "CM"... I'm really am not being facetious here - what is your definition of classical music that allows you to decide which you accept and reject from the genre of classical music? Is it just what you do and don't like, or is it more intellectualised?
Quote from: Guido on January 22, 2008, 04:14:25 PM
Surely we can stretch that sweeping generalisation to Dvorak's Ninth - the Scherzo is virtually a carbon copy of Beethoven's.
I think it's just that certain members of the board don't feel the need to ejaculate their thoughts about every single subject going even if the comment will be banal and pointless. Not a personal attack on you paulb but a general observation about the posters that I do and don't respect.
Aside from Carter and Boulez, which other late twentieth (and 21st) century composers do you respect? I think I've seen you rubbish Ligeti, Lutoslawski and Penderecki before. Messiaen, Schnittke, Dutilleux? I'm guessing that these also do not compose "CM"... I'm really am not being facetious here - what is your definition of classical music that allows you to decide which you accept and reject from the genre of classical music? Is it just what you do and don't like, or is it more intellectualised?
Hi Guido.
I just like to share some experiences i;'ve had over the course of the past several very important developmental years , concerning branching out to new composers, to new epochs. more on that later...
Funny that you would include Dvorak's 9th, i love that opening gorgeous theme 1st movement. i really can't reacll the other movements, so if you say the scherzo also has that bonifide stamping of Beethoven's hand, I wouldn't doubt it fora second. I had some of those great supraphon recordings of the czech/1950's of Dvorak's 5-8, and felt, "this is nothing but rehashed Beethoven".
I heard one piece from Lutoslwaski, In Memory Of Bartok, sounded too close JUST LIKE Bartok. So whats the point about Lutoslawski? i'd rather be listening to Bartok.
Messiaen. i liked for a moment in time. then after readinga amazon review on his St Francois
WTA's comments gave me some things i also felt , and after further reflection, found WTA to be SPOT ON.
Gave all my Messiaen away to my devouted catholic brother-in-law. The cds went to a good home.
Even w/o WTA's comments, Messiaen didn;'t stand a chance to remain in my collection. Not many composers do. Messiaen might be of interest at a live concert, not on cd.
I could go on, but no one here is really interested in my odd idoscyncracies in CM.
WTS's review
http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B00000JSAO/ref=cm_cr_dp_hist_2?%5Fencoding=UTF8&filterBy=addTwoStar
Schnittke. Read my comments on his forum. As much a Genius in music and as in religious/mystical thoughts. read the Ivashkin book. Rozhdestvensky adds commenst at the end of one book , saying Schnittke had a mind for music theory/discussing other composers, that was second to none. After reading Schnittke's analysis of various composers, Rozhdestvensky was simply blown away by his superior knowledge.
His music will take me a lifetime to explore. this is the type of late 20th C muisc i am drawn to. But not to say excludes old favorites, like Rachmaninov's 1st pc, parts of his Verspers. I like Grieg.
Fair enough.
You seem to be saying though that this is just your opinion and not some absolute rule by which some composers are and aren't classical music which is decent of you at least.
I think you should give Lutoaslwaski another chance - his cello concerto and piano concerto are both masterpieces which are difficult not to love... I'm sure that it would make you revalue him. I can't imagine that you rejected him based on just one piece.
Quote from: Guido on January 22, 2008, 06:21:41 PM
Fair enough.
You seem to be saying though that this is just your opinion and not some absolute rule by which some composers are and aren't classical music which is decent of you at least.
I think you should give Lutoaslwaski another chance - his cello concerto and piano concerto are both masterpieces which are difficult not to love... I'm sure that it would make you revalue him. I can't imagine that you rejected him based on just one piece.
I may have been decidedly unfair in my dis-missing out of hand, Lutoslwaki, based on one work. You are are in the right.
I went to your tube and there watched a 28 second clip of his concerto for oboe and harp. Holloger conducting.
I like very much what i heard.
I will proceed with that work and the 2 you recommend.
Thank you for the suggestion. See we can all learn something new.
I may even try other pieces by Ligeti down the road and other composers i have had no luck with. I'm sure you would say , definetly yes to the concerto for harp and oboe, correct?
GO TO PAGE 2 on this link, 3rd selection from bottom:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=search_videos&search_query=lutoslawski&search_
What i like in composers is disonnance and originality, but with influences of other composers i love. IOW I hear Elliott Carter as continuing the Schonbergian modalities.
btw you should read the excellent commentary on Schonberg by one member, Felszemu, aka Wolfie, over at amazon
http://www.amazon.com/tag/classical%20music/forum/ref=cm_cd_ef_tft_tp?%5Fencoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx2O5YQ79OVJBUQ&cdThread=Tx1R0JOJTT4LBT3&displayType=tagsDetail
very insightful into the ever shifting nature of Schonberg.
I just placed 2 cds from Lutoslawski on wish list
latest DG release of the pc, has 2 other works on it, and the 2 cd set from Philips,
Thanks
This is a video of the last two minutes of the cello concerto by Lutoslawski - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iudtvUpu3f4 played by Yo-Yo Ma. A superb performance.
Make sure you get the Rostropovich recording of the Lutoaslawski concerto coupled with the Dutiilleux concerto - the two concertos are both masterpieces and amongst both composer's finest and most important works. Also this CD has Rostropovich playing at his absolute best, which means its nothing short of astonishing.
Anyway, this thread has been thoroughly derailed.
I haven't heard that oboe and harp concerto but that screetching at the end sounds mental. Intriguing piece though - I will look into it.
Quote from: Guido on January 23, 2008, 06:41:18 AM
This is a video of the last two minutes of the cello concerto by Lutoslawski - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iudtvUpu3f4 played by Yo-Yo Ma. A superb performance.
Make sure you get the Rostropovich recording of the Lutoaslawski concerto coupled with the Dutiilleux concerto - the two concertos are both masterpieces and amongst both composer's finest and most important works. Also this CD has Rostropovich playing at his absolute best, which means its nothing short of astonishing.
Anyway, this thread has been thoroughly derailed.
I haven't heard that oboe and harp concerto but that screetching at the end sounds mental. Intriguing piece though - I will look into it.
There's things i don't like about this clip of the cello concerto.
And with me, if there's just one tiny section that doesn't work well for me, its a doubtful case.
I'm like that.
Rather you than me. :-\
Quote from: Guido on January 23, 2008, 06:04:15 PM
Rather you than me. :-\
I guess i should at least try to explain
there's is this logic involved, one thing leads up to the next with the cello playing a cascade of notes where one follows right after the other, to where after one listen i know exactly what to expect on next hearing.
take Vaughan Williams 7th sym which i am listening to. Not his finest, yet still there's this freshness about the work after knowing it for yrs now. Nothing revolutionary in the 7th, yet displays that character of beautiful motifs and cressendos that Vaughan Williams is known for. There's authenticity and authority in vaughan Williams. I don't get this inspirational sense from the cello concerto, its too programmed.
We'll see about the concerto for harp and oboe when it arrives.
Anyone else heard this CD?
Bit of a mishmash of styles-not surprising really considering it is a work whose component parts have been put together over 39 years!
Some of it is quite powerful, others seem rather trite but would be interested to hear other opinions.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/416W8Q0GJGL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Do it.
Quote from: Ugh! on October 22, 2008, 05:02:27 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/416W8Q0GJGL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Do it.
Assuming that was a recommendation :) I have just ordered the cd ;D
In January Naxos will be releasing Corigliano's Symphony No.3 "Circus Maximus" played by the University of Texas(Austin) Wind Ensemble for whom the work was composed.
I have read a bit about the work on Corigliano's publishers' website and see that Bruce was actually at the premiere :)
Any comments on the work, Bruce? (I have read the Musicweb review btw-just wondered if you had anything to add, like-should I buy it ;D)
(Naxos is also releasing Corigliano's teacher, the American Romantic composer Vittorio Giannini's Symphony No.4 and Piano Concerto.)
Hey, thanks for reading the review, and for posting the info about the excerpt on the publisher's website--I hadn't seen that!
Not sure what else I can add, since I only heard the piece once. My impression was positive, but I am sure that part of the impact was the physical placement of the musicians, who were scattered all over Carnegie Hall. In addition to those onstage, there were small groups in the back, upstairs, and even a marching band that entered down one aisle--all very theatrical. People in the audience were turning their heads, grinning, trying to see where the latest sounds were coming from.
Afterward, I did want to hear it again, which to me is always one criterion (not the only one) for whether a piece succeeds or not. Corigliano uses a wide variety of techniques, and the piece was very entertaining--again, an impression on just one hearing.
If you are liking what Corigliano you've heard, and like the wind instrumentation, I would definitely consider it.
--Bruce
Thanks for the (incredibly rapid) response :)
I shall (of course!) buy the cd ;D I do collect American symphonies....but I am not quite sure what to make of Corigliano :-\ I don't sense much genuine depth in his music; it seems to be going more for effect/impact on the listener rather than appealing either to the intellect or to the soul, if you understand my meaning.
Still...at Naxos prices...!!
I think I know what you mean about Corigliano. Some of his work I've enjoyed immensely (e.g., Chiaroscuro, for two pianos tuned a quarter-tone apart) but others have left me cold. I would have to hear this one again to really weigh in with much substance. But I'm glad to know that this piece is being released on disc (and will probably get it myself).
--Bruce
Quote from: bhodges on December 01, 2008, 08:26:33 AM
Not sure what else I can add, since I only heard the piece once. My impression was positive, but I am sure that part of the impact was the physical placement of the musicians, who were scattered all over Carnegie Hall. In addition to those onstage, there were small groups in the back, upstairs, and even a marching band that entered down one aisle--all very theatrical. People in the audience were turning their heads, grinning, trying to see where the latest sounds were coming from.
Picking up where Stockhausen and George Ives left off, it seems to me that this is where classical music simply does not let itself translate well to any recording medium. It reminds me of attending Kontakte with Stockhausen, watching (and hearing) him pan the sounds between the 8 speakers and realizing that although I had heard the piece on CD and LP, I had not really heard it before.
Quote from: Ugh! on December 02, 2008, 11:01:58 AM
Picking up where Stockhausen and George Ives left off, it seems to me that this is where classical music simply does not let itself translate well to any recording medium. It reminds me of attending Kontakte with Stockhausen, watching (and hearing) him pan the sounds between the 8 speakers and realizing that although I had heard the piece on CD and LP, I had not really heard it before.
I had a similar experience a few weeks ago, hearing two recordings of
Gruppen with friends. Although it was a great afternoon--my first encounter with the piece--I really wish I could hear it live, for exactly the reasons you mention.
--Bruce
Should I buy this?
(http://classicalcdreview.com/8559331.jpg)
Well, I like it (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,9.msg225257.html#msg225257) but that might not mean a lot to you. And Dundonnell might be right
Quote from: Dundonnell on December 01, 2008, 08:36:41 AM
I don't sense much genuine depth in his music; it seems to be going more for effect/impact on the listener rather than appealing either to the intellect or to the soul, if you understand my meaning.
I wouldn't know profundity if it hit me between the eyes, impact is good enough for a philistine like me :)
Quote from: rickardg on April 14, 2009, 11:33:30 AM
Well, I like it (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,9.msg225257.html#msg225257) but that might not mean a lot to you. And Dundonnell might be right
I wouldn't know profundity if it hit me between the eyes, impact is good enough for a philistine like me :)
Thanks Rickard. If it makes you feel any better,
Fanfare magazine liked it.
Oops, I messed up the link, I wanted to post this slightly more extensive review
Quote from: rickardg on September 12, 2008, 11:44:12 AM
This is turning out to be a new favourite of mine. I like the mid-part best where the ominous "Blowing in the Wind" (How many roads must a man walk down? Corigliano's music seems to suggest a very large number indeed as opposed to Dylan's stroll around the block.) is followed by a suitably violent "Masters of War" and a deliriously confused "All along the Watchtower". The postlude "Forever Young" is a serene cathartic ending. The remaining songs ("Clothes Line" and "Chimes of Freedom") don't grip me that much but it could be because I don't know the lyrics as well.
I wondered how the soprano voice could sound so relaxed and intimate even in the more dramatic passages, a perusal of the notes reveals that the part is specified as 'amplified soprano'.
Also, your avatar makes it feel a bit strange having this conversation... :-)
Quote from: rickardg on April 14, 2009, 01:23:27 PM
Also, your avatar makes it feel a bit strange having this conversation... :-)
:D
It's nearly 7 years since this thread last saw the light of day, but - HEY! - I happen to like Corigliano's Symphony No 1 very much indeed. I have both the Barenboim and Slatkin recordings, plus a "private" recording by Judd and the Florida Philharmonic that was professionally recorded but never issued. I find this is a symphony that has grown on me over the years and stands comparison with the wider established repertoire. Happily, I am told it is still played quite regularly, if not recorded.
Interestingly, the Tarantella (2nd movement) is a depiction of a friend of Corigliano whose mental state was affected by his AIDS affliction such that he developed a Tourette's-like condition. There is a related piece called Tarantella from Gazebo Dances, which depicts the same person prior to his affliction. There are great videos of Peter Stanley Martin conducting both of these pieces on YouTube that are instructive to watch (albeit with low video quality). I'd pay good money to hear that guy take a professional orchestra through Symphony No 1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLR3QZ4esAY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHqHleU0l90
I find Corigliano's work to be very uneven, peaks and valleys, but I've now heard enough that I've liked very much to listen whenever something new comes along.
Looking over this brief thread I see that nobody has yet mentioned his 2007 percussion concerto "Conjurer", which I'd say was not only one of his best works, but among the best works by anyone from recent years:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYy-mFPgy10
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61Y-edVplrL._SX300_.jpg)
Quote from: Dundonnell on December 01, 2008, 08:36:41 AMI don't sense much genuine depth in his music; it seems to be going more for effect/impact on the listener rather than appealing either to the intellect or to the soul, if you understand my meaning.
I pretty much agree with this—my impressions have been the opposite of Simon's, with works that initially seem impressive not repaying further listening. eg the Symphony No 1 was a powerful work on first listen, but on subsequent listens it started to become apparent how thin the musical material was and how little it was actually developed, and the overall impression ended up being an insubstantial work in spite of its 'message' and attempts at creating an emotional charge.
I have the same problem with some works by Shostakovich and Schnittke among others (though partly due to prolifixity (sp?) I guess, they could transcend this when they put the time in—I haven't heard anything like that from Corigliano, who remains an "effects" composer for me), with material chosen for semiotic shorthand rather than actual musical substance.
At the moment, I only have A Dylan Thomas Trilogy in my collection, but I certainly want to get a recording of Symphony No. 1 at some point. Circus Maximus is a work on my radar as well, with its offstage ensembles.
I just picked up an obscure Japanese recording of Symphony No 1 By Tatsuya Shimono conducting the Yomiuri Nippon Symphony Orchestra on the Avex Classics label SACD. It is a refreshingly different interpretation, rather well thought out and very nicely recorded. Its delivers some valid new ideas about the Symphony. While Shimono seems to have a clear enough vision of the piece, one gets the impression that the orchestra itself is politely holding back, almost as thought they have either been under-rehearsed (unlikely) or collectively aren't 'getting' the piece yet. I formed the impression that Shimono has extracted all there is to be had from this orchestra. Symphony No 1 has to be played with total commitment to be convincing, and while the orchestra's physical commitment is in evidence, the emotional commitment is lacking. Does that make sense? Nonetheless, this performance exceeds Slatkin in vision and interpretation as well as in recording quality, and is overall the best of the four recordings I own. It also enhances Shimono's reputation.
2 days ago I bought the new Naxos recording of Symphony No. 1. Giving it a second listen now, and I'm really enjoying this work. The fortissimo climaxes are overwhelming and wild, especially at the end of the Tarantella and the Chaconne.
Marked for investigation at some later date ....
Quote from: Maestro267 on July 16, 2016, 05:49:56 AM
2 days ago I bought the new Naxos recording of Symphony No. 1. Giving it a second listen now, and I'm really enjoying this work. The fortissimo climaxes are overwhelming and wild, especially at the end of the Tarantella and the Chaconne.
Thanks for this. I'm listening to it now on a free Hi-Res download stream at http://shop.classicsonline.com/albums/575f5c6551e88c8b4ccfd1e5?type=download (http://shop.classicsonline.com/albums/575f5c6551e88c8b4ccfd1e5?type=download) and I have to say I rather like it. I expect I will buy this, but before I do I'm pinging Naxos to see if I can't score a DSD version ... if one exists.
I have been investigating this American composer's works of late and find most of them compelling. Here's his wonderful Clarinet Concerto, and played here with extraordinary virtuosity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUE5dL4ipZk
Quote from: Christabel on February 23, 2020, 07:12:58 AM
I have been investigating this American composer's works of late and find most of them compelling. Here's his wonderful Clarinet Concerto, and played here with extraordinary virtuosity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUE5dL4ipZk
That's a fantastic work but I find the LSO/Richard Stoltzman a more memorable performance but the movements are on separate links.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSeCn-5dUSw