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The Music Room => General Classical Music Discussion => Topic started by: Brian on January 16, 2019, 07:21:02 AM

Title: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Brian on January 16, 2019, 07:21:02 AM
Press release dropped into my email:

NEWS

Robert von Bahr is known for producing some of the world's best classical music, but he's just as passionate about protecting the earth.

This month, von Bahr, who heads the independent Swedish record label BIS, will release a Super Audio Compact Disc (SACD) in an 'ecopak', a totally recyclable sleeve made of certified cardboard using soy ink, eco-friendly glue and water-based varnish.

His company will package all of its recordings in the new sleeve once it uses up old inventory, he promises.

"The use of plastic is doing enormous harm to the environment," says von Bahr.  "No one can walk away from the pictures of whales, fish and turtles full of plastic without feeling horror."

The sleeve costs about 20 percent more to make than a standard plastic CD jewel box but weighs a third less, reducing the carbon emissions associated with transport costs. Von Bahr is taking the loss.

"If this helps the recording business move away from plastic packaging in favour of more ecological alternatives, I will be happy," says the veteran record industry executive. "I have rarely been so inspired by anything.  Everything about this is
right - the need, the timing and the solution".

BIS' first ecopak will house a SACD of 'Nomaden',  a work by Dutch composer Joel Bons that was awarded the 2019 University of Louisville Grawemeyer Award for Music Composition.

-

2011 forum discussion about ecopacks vs. digipacks:
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/cd-packaging-question-eco-pak-vs-digi-pak.264761/
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on January 16, 2019, 08:58:57 AM
Will be interesting to see what it is like.  I admire him for doing the switch.  Hope, though, that it still protects the CDs well and one can remove them from their packaging easily.

PD
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on January 16, 2019, 10:51:15 AM
I find myself going more and more to lossless downloads, so I am not too affected.

I find the original "jewel case" to be utterly repulsive. Digipak seems even worse (plastic and cardboard glued together). I think an all paper or cardboard method would be best. A cardboard outer sleeve containing the booklet and CD in a plain paper sleeve would be quite adequate and more attractive to me than anything I've seen. Sort of like the clamshell format that is used for the big sets, except the clamshell is reduced to a cardboard envelope. Sort of like these, but on nicer stock printed with pretty artwork.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/716f%2BeFPX4L._SX425_.jpg)

What is an eco pack, anyway? Maybe it is what I am describing.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Jo498 on January 16, 2019, 11:26:03 AM
I am pretty sure I have an involved cardboard or paper-only packing somewhere, maybe BIS as well, but I bought this several years ago. Winter and Winter also has cardboard packing.

It is a nice gesture and I don't think it is meant as a "fig leaf". But in fact most of such things are. The plastic bags and bottles in the oceans comes mostly from Asia where countries are behind in garbage disposal and recycling but advancing quickly in consumption. And most of the dreaded micro plastic particles come from car tyres and clothing.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Abuelo Igor on January 17, 2019, 08:38:01 AM
What about the plastic the CDs themselves are made of? Let's see if they can make them of paper as well...  >:D
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Omicron9 on January 17, 2019, 09:10:06 AM
Bravo, BIS.  I've recently purchased some older ECM titles which came in the cardboard sleeves.  Think the old 2-LP gatefold style packaging, but smaller.  The disks are quite accessible, but no danger of falling out.  And the cardboard sleeves eat less shelf space.

I applaud BIS' green stance very highly, but putting that aside for a moment, I'd still prefer the cardboard LP-style jacket.  No broken center hubs, if you drop them they don't shatter or crack, the tabs holding the "door" don't break off which leaves the lid unattachable, and on and on.

Again, nice work, BIS.

-09
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: 71 dB on January 17, 2019, 10:18:39 AM
Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on January 16, 2019, 10:51:15 AM
I find myself going more and more to lossless downloads, so I am not too affected.

You keep the downloads stored on a harddrive which has got a "packaging" too.  ;)
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on January 18, 2019, 05:04:25 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on January 17, 2019, 10:18:39 AM
You keep the downloads stored on a harddrive which has got a "packaging" too.  ;)

Perhaps we should go back then to only attending live concerts and not collect any recordings period?  ;)

PD
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Mirror Image on January 18, 2019, 06:26:54 AM
I hope this 'new, improved' packaging isn't a compromise on quality. A lot of these digipacks, which look nice, don't hold up very well over time and become scuffed up. With a jewel case, I can easily take the CD and artwork out and replace it, but you can't replace a digipack. I'm weary of this switch to say the least.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Omicron9 on January 18, 2019, 06:51:21 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 18, 2019, 06:26:54 AM
I hope this 'new, improved' packaging isn't a compromise on quality. A lot of these digipacks, which look nice, don't hold up very well over time and become scuffed up. With a jewel case, I can easily take the CD and artwork out and replace it, but you can't replace a digipack. I'm weary of this switch to say the least.

As I understand it, the Digipack is the plastic/cardboard amalgam with the CD held in place by the plastic hub.

The Ecopak has no plastic, and it like an LP sleeve.  It sounds as if BIS is moving to the Ecopak, not the Digipak.  You can kind-of see the small LP-style jacket in this pic:

https://www.facebook.com/266096413509231/photos/a.527066910745512/1969904266461762/?type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/266096413509231/photos/a.527066910745512/1969904266461762/?type=3&theater)

-09
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Mirror Image on January 18, 2019, 06:54:07 AM
Quote from: Omicron9 on January 18, 2019, 06:51:21 AM
As I understand it, the Digipack is the plastic/cardboard amalgam with the CD held in place by the plastic hub.

The Ecopak has no plastic, and it like an LP sleeve.  It sounds as if BIS is moving to the Ecopak, not the Digipak.

-09

Ah, these will be even worse! No protection whatsoever and the way these postal workers handle packages, it'll be a wonder if the disc arrives broken into a million pieces.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Omicron9 on January 18, 2019, 07:00:52 AM
You'd think so!  I am also in the US, and buy CDs from amazon on an almost weekly basis.  I have far more shipping damage occuring with jewel boxes (cracked, door broken off, hub teeth broken and disk won't attach to tray, etc.) than with the LP-style folders.  In fact, I can't think of a single LP-style CD ecopak sleeve that has arrived with any damage.

-09
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Mirror Image on January 18, 2019, 07:03:30 AM
Quote from: Omicron9 on January 18, 2019, 07:00:52 AM
You'd think so!  I am also in the US, and buy CDs from amazon on an almost weekly basis.  I have far more shipping damage occuring with jewel boxes (cracked, door broken off, hub teeth broken and disk won't attach to tray, etc.) than with the LP-style folders.  In fact, I can't think of a single LP-style CD ecopak sleeve that has arrived with any damage.

-09

Only time with tell...
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Biffo on January 18, 2019, 07:05:32 AM
Most BIS releases I have bought recently have been downloaded from the eClassical website but I don't rule out buying BIS CDs entirely. I will just have to hope they don't get delivered on a wet day. My regular postman is very good but I do occasionally get a damp envelope from time to time.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Omicron9 on January 18, 2019, 07:06:21 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 18, 2019, 07:03:30 AM
Only time with tell...

Yerp.  That was just my experience. 

-09
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on January 18, 2019, 08:32:34 AM
Software CDs have been sent in cardboard packaging for ages and I cannot remember a single occasion of getting a disc that was damaged during shipment.

The ecopak simply sounds like a single-disc version of the cardboard clamshell packaging that has been the rule for bargain sets for many years. I welcome the demise of the repulsive "jewel-case" which was designed to take up a lot of space and make an expensive CD seem important.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Brian on January 18, 2019, 09:01:46 AM
Probably 30-40% of plastic jewel cases I order end up damaged. I've never had a digipak or ecopak arrive damaged but I have caused damage to them myself by pushing them against something sharp or banging the corners.

I am most concerned with ease of pulling the CD out of the fold. I see there is a little cut to pull out the booklet easily; hope the same is true for the CD. All of Alpha's reissue line from the past couple years comes in ecopaks, and although they are very space-saving and reasonably well-designed from a graphics POV, it's hard to pull stuff out when I'm driving. I do a lot of listening in the car...
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on January 18, 2019, 09:04:49 AM
There will be a rash of horrible crashes where the driver is found in the mangled wreckage with a BIS CD in his or her cold dead hand? Then the following ad campaign from Apple, "get it on iTunes, and live to hear it!"

Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Brian on January 18, 2019, 09:07:38 AM
Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on January 18, 2019, 09:04:49 AM
There will be a rash of horrible crashes where the driver is found in the mangled wreckage with a BIS CD in his or her cold dead hand?
Nah, just me ...  :-X
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Abuelo Igor on January 19, 2019, 03:18:32 AM
What makes me shudder is the "eco-friendly glue". For some reason, I find that the concepts "CD" and "glue" do not go well together.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Mirror Image on January 19, 2019, 06:07:56 AM
Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on January 18, 2019, 08:32:34 AM
Software CDs have been sent in cardboard packaging for ages and I cannot remember a single occasion of getting a disc that was damaged during shipment.

The ecopak simply sounds like a single-disc version of the cardboard clamshell packaging that has been the rule for bargain sets for many years. I welcome the demise of the repulsive "jewel-case" which was designed to take up a lot of space and make an expensive CD seem important.

I have zero problems with jewel cases and I think calling them 'repulsive' is a bit over the top. It's not like you're having to stare at a hideous circus freak. It's a piece of plastic for crying out loud. :-\
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on January 19, 2019, 03:17:13 PM
A thought here:  will the spines be narrower--harder to read than vs. ones in plastic?  Maybe 'tilt' easily (think like a book)?  Would be nice if there was a way to laminate the covers, etc., so that they would hold up better yet, maybe in the presence of water, be able to biodegrade relatively easily?  Trying to figure out how to get the best of both worlds..... :-\
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: greg on January 19, 2019, 07:06:06 PM
It seems like ALL of the newer CDs that I've ordered, from several different rock/metal labels use this type of packaging... I'm assuming it's ecopack or something similar.

Regardless, they're aesthetically much more appealing, though the downside is that you have to be extra gentle with them as they are more likely to show wear and tear, especially around the corners. I decided I'd use a certain type of eco-packaging for my own albums when they are complete just because it looks better and feels better to the touch than albums with jewel cases.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Jo498 on January 20, 2019, 12:08:06 AM
Jewel cases are ugly and prone to break but as Mirror Image points out they can be replaced easily. If a digipak gets scoffed around the edges, it is merely an aesthetic problem. But if the central "rosette" breaks, the disk will not remain in place and the digipak becomes useless.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Omicron9 on January 21, 2019, 06:09:02 AM
Attached (I hope) are examples of each, as folks seem to be confused. 

DIGIPAK = part cardboard/part plastic.  Has the plastic hub-type disk holder.

ECOPAK = no plastic.  Similar to the old LP-style sleeves where the disk slides into the sleeve.   This is the type to which BIS is moving.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Biffo on January 21, 2019, 06:14:18 AM
Quote from: Omicron9 on January 21, 2019, 06:09:02 AM
Attached (I hope) are examples of each, as folks seem to be confused. 

DIGIPAK = part cardboard/part plastic.  Has the plastic hub-type disk holder.

ECOPAK = no plastic.  Similar to the old LP-style sleeves where the disk slides into the sleeve.   This is the type to which BIS is moving.

My main problem with ECOPAK and similar packaging is that the disc is often a very tight fit and can be difficult to get out. The same applies to the cardboard sleeves in some the editions where the sleeve is a miniature reproduction of the original LP cover.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Jo498 on January 21, 2019, 06:39:56 AM
Yes, there are "ecopak" style packages that made it almost impossible to get the disc out without scratching it. The worst ever in my experience were the "brown books" from the late 1990s? (or slightly later) Rubinstein edition. (Their additional problem was dark print on brown background, so spines were very hard to read.)
And there were others that had almost the opposite problem, i.e. discs sliding out too easily, especially after some time of wear. This could occur with some of the "cheapo" cardboard sleeves in economic boxes but also with the "book style" packaging (for me among the most appealing but not the most durable) of the CBS Masterworks heritage (or whatever the name was) original cover edition.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: greg on January 21, 2019, 10:32:54 AM
Quote from: Omicron9 on January 21, 2019, 06:09:02 AM
Attached (I hope) are examples of each, as folks seem to be confused. 

DIGIPAK = part cardboard/part plastic.  Has the plastic hub-type disk holder.

ECOPAK = no plastic.  Similar to the old LP-style sleeves where the disk slides into the sleeve.   This is the type to which BIS is moving.
Thanks!

Digipack is exactly what I've been seeing... even heard the term before but didn't know what it was. And it's what I will use for my own music, now that I know the term.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on January 24, 2019, 08:14:40 AM
Hey all... if you haven't seen pix of the new pack, there are some that come with my post on it... along with my take on the idea.

Newsish items:


Record Label BIS Goes Green (You Had Me at "Turtles")
(http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2019/01/record-label-bis-goes-green-you-had-me.html)
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Brian on January 24, 2019, 08:17:09 AM
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on January 24, 2019, 08:14:40 AM
Hey all... if you haven't seen pix of the new pack, there are some that come with my post on it... along with my take on the idea.

Newsish items:


Record Label BIS Goes Green (You Had Me at "Turtles")
(http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2019/01/record-label-bis-goes-green-you-had-me.html)

Thank you for posting those pictures! It also looks like the useless plastic shrink wrap will be gone? I assume that's why there is a peel-off sticker holding in the booklet/CD...
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on January 24, 2019, 08:21:35 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 19, 2019, 06:07:56 AM
I have zero problems with jewel cases and I think calling them 'repulsive' is a bit over the top. It's not like you're having to stare at a hideous circus freak. It's a piece of plastic for crying out loud. :-\

I find them genuinely repulsive. Not so much an individual one, but having to look at an entire bookcase crammed with cheap plastic boxes. I rip all of my CDs to disk partly to avoiding having that in my home (I only have attractive deluxe box sets on my shelves now).
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Brian on January 24, 2019, 08:25:21 AM
Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on January 24, 2019, 08:21:35 AM
(I only have attractive deluxe box sets on my shelves now)
That hot pink Arthur Rubinstein box is so huge I genuinely consider it an accent color in its room's color scheme. (...but nothing else matches it)

Wish I could go buy a whole ton of "ecopaks" to replace all my old plastic cases, but then you lose the ability to have a front/back cover and have to use a label printer or a Sharpie to write on the outside what album is within.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on January 24, 2019, 08:27:54 AM
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on January 24, 2019, 08:14:40 AM
Hey all... if you haven't seen pix of the new pack, there are some that come with my post on it... along with my take on the idea.

Newsish items:


Record Label BIS Goes Green (You Had Me at "Turtles")
(http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2019/01/record-label-bis-goes-green-you-had-me.html)

The associated advertising copy is over the top, but von Bahr is doing the right thing. We have to move away from plastic packaging. How often to we find ourselves buying some trivial item encased in a greater mass of plastic than the item itself, when a simple cardboard box would do equally well?
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: flyingdutchman on January 24, 2019, 08:31:08 AM
Well, there's always downloading now, and with eclassical.com all of the BIS SACD releases in surround can be downloaded.  No need for plastic cases, digipaks, or any other case now.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on January 24, 2019, 08:34:04 AM
Quote from: Brian on January 24, 2019, 08:17:09 AM
Thank you for posting those pictures! It also looks like the useless plastic shrink wrap will be gone? I assume that's why there is a peel-off sticker holding in the booklet/CD...

It really wouldn't make sense to do all this to "avoid unnecessary plastic waste" only then shrink-wrap the whole thing... so yes, that's my assumption, too.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: greg on January 24, 2019, 09:45:05 AM
Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on January 24, 2019, 08:27:54 AMHow often to we find ourselves buying some trivial item encased in a greater mass of plastic than the item itself, when a simple cardboard box would do equally well?
The Japanese government could use this memo for the little stuff. Outlawing packaging... for example, single pieces of fruit.  :-X :laugh:

Quote from: flyingdutchman on January 24, 2019, 08:31:08 AM
Well, there's always downloading now, and with eclassical.com all of the BIS SACD releases in surround can be downloaded.  No need for plastic cases, digipaks, or any other case now.
I used to download and built a digital collection.
But later once i got more space and money i found that CDs are a million times more inspiring to look at on the shelf and picking it up and playing them without having to use some type of device that is connected to the internet is very satisfying. So going I've been going back to CDs for favorite music that i could endlessly relisten to.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Omicron9 on January 24, 2019, 09:47:53 AM
The pics of the new packaging look great in my opinion.  I'd expect they'd retain the shrink wrap, as doing without will introduce problems in shipping and storage.

-09
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on January 24, 2019, 10:58:27 AM
Quote from: Omicron9 on January 24, 2019, 09:47:53 AM
The pics of the new packaging look great in my opinion.  I'd expect they'd retain the shrink wrap, as doing without will introduce problems in shipping and storage.

-09

Good point about storage. But I suppose if they did actually use any, they could come up with some bio-degradable stuff for it? Supermarkets here, which feel the need to single-package everything (mostly because you can hide higher prices for produce by pre-packaged unit-priced veggies), are going that direction. If they didn't, they might risk a minor backfiring of the whole shpiel.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Kontrapunctus on January 24, 2019, 11:00:08 AM
My new Yevgeny Subdin late Beethoven sonatas came in a ecopak...no complaints!
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on January 24, 2019, 11:06:05 AM
Quote from: Omicron9 on January 24, 2019, 09:47:53 AM
The pics of the new packaging look great in my opinion.  I'd expect they'd retain the shrink wrap, as doing without will introduce problems in shipping and storage.

-09

I don't see why that would be necessary. Books don't generally get shrink wrap. I think most retail packaging choices are driven by shoplifting concerns. For something sent through the mail I would think shrink wrap would be superfluous.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Brian on January 24, 2019, 06:23:58 PM
Quote from: Toccata&Fugue on January 24, 2019, 11:00:08 AM
My new Yevgeny Subdin late Beethoven sonatas came in a ecopak...no complaints!
Shrink wrap? How is it pulling out the CD?
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Kontrapunctus on January 25, 2019, 04:31:11 PM
Quote from: Brian on January 24, 2019, 06:23:58 PM
Shrink wrap? How is it pulling out the CD?
No shrink wrap--the "ecopak" sticker joined the two halves so nothing fell out. The disc is in one end of the pack--it comes out easily enough.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on January 26, 2019, 08:50:45 PM
Tangentially, my biggest gripe with Jewel cases are the 2CD versions. The first ones they came out with were as wide as 3 or 4 individual jewel cases. What a waste of space. Then came the ones that fit in the space of a single jewel case, except for some reason they come in two different varieties. There is one type where secondary hinge corresponds to the primary hinge, and it opens like a book, and a second type where the secondary hinge is at the edge and it opens like a fanfold. Of course when you get one you have to guess which type it is and if you guess wrong you end up ripping the thing apart when you try to get the second disc out. Just irritating.

I doubt they could conceive of an ecopak that would be worse than the jewel case.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Mirror Image on January 26, 2019, 08:58:14 PM
Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on January 26, 2019, 08:50:45 PM
Tangentially, my biggest gripe with Jewel cases are the 2CD versions. The first ones they came out with were as wide as 3 or 4 individual jewel cases. What a waste of space. Then came the ones that fit in the space of a single jewel case, except for some reason they come in two different varieties. There is one type where secondary hinge corresponds to the primary hinge, and it opens like a book, and a second type where the secondary hinge is at the edge and it opens like a fanfold. Of course when you get one you have to guess which type it is and if you guess wrong you end up ripping the thing apart when you try to get the second disc out. Just irritating.

I doubt they could conceive of an ecopak that would be worse than the jewel case.

It's actually very easy to see which type of 2-CD holder you'll be getting. Just open it up and look at it. Again, I think you're being a bit melodramatic about the whole jewel case thing.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on January 27, 2019, 06:21:42 AM
Quote from: Toccata&Fugue on January 25, 2019, 04:31:11 PM
No shrink wrap--the "ecopak" sticker joined the two halves so nothing fell out. The disc is in one end of the pack--it comes out easily enough.

Does the sticker have some sort of velcro that's reusable/resealable? Or is it just a sticker with glue/adhesive on the back that you have to cut apart once to access the CD, etc.?

Best,

PD
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on January 28, 2019, 12:34:14 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 26, 2019, 08:58:14 PM
It's actually very easy to see which type of 2-CD holder you'll be getting. Just open it up and look at it. Again, I think you're being a bit melodramatic about the whole jewel case thing.

I have to admit that I've had moments of momentary puzzlement with 2-CD jewel cases, expecting the hinge on one side or the other... but ultimately I'm glad to say that it never overtaxed my deductive abilities.  8)
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Jo498 on January 28, 2019, 12:52:18 AM
I don't love them but I must have bought around a hundred or more of the slim 2-disc cases over the last 10 years to save space compared to the fat 2disc cases.
Most of the time, I don't care so much about the packaging. The main thing I truly dislike is any packaging that is more than about 5 milimetres different in the vertical dimension because this will be a problem for some of my shelving. Unfortunately this is true for quite a few of the otherwise space-saving cardboard boxes.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on January 28, 2019, 01:13:02 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on January 28, 2019, 12:52:18 AM
I don't love them but I must have bought around a hundred or more of the slim 2-disc cases over the last 10 years to save space compared to the fat 2disc cases.
Most of the time, I don't care so much about the packaging. The main thing I truly dislike is any packaging that is more than about 5 milimetres different in the vertical dimension because this will be a problem for some of my shelving. Unfortunately this is true for quite a few of the otherwise space-saving cardboard boxes.

Damn you, Melodiya!  ;D
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Jo498 on January 28, 2019, 01:52:48 AM
Yeh, from where I sit on my desk I can see the yellow box of the DSCH quartets lying horizontally on the base of a stack of discs, messing up this whole section of the shelf. Then there is a bunch grouped with DVDs but this is not a problem as long as one has a few shelves for DVD format. But there are also some being higher than DVD cases.
I hate all of them.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: 71 dB on January 28, 2019, 02:06:32 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on January 28, 2019, 01:52:48 AM
Yeh, from where I sit on my desk I can see the yellow box of the DSCH quartets lying horizontally on the base of a stack of discs, messing up this whole section of the shelf. Then there is a bunch grouped with DVDs but this is not a problem as long as one has a few shelves for DVD format. But there are also some being higher than DVD cases.
I hate all of them.

Talk about  first world problems...  ::)
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on January 28, 2019, 02:27:07 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on January 28, 2019, 01:52:48 AM
Yeh, from where I sit on my desk I can see the yellow box of the DSCH quartets lying horizontally on the base of a stack of discs, messing up this whole section of the shelf. Then there is a bunch grouped with DVDs but this is not a problem as long as one has a few shelves for DVD format. But there are also some being higher than DVD cases.
I hate all of them.

When I designed my CD shelving, I took the yellow box of DSCH quartets as the standard for height to make sure I didn't run into such problems.  Seriously. ;D :)

...and then came along the obnoxiously formatted Berlin Philharmonic Releases! Argh!  >:D (By the way, if anyone wants to trade an SACD set of any of those issues for the CD/Blu-ray set, I'm happy to do that.)
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Jo498 on January 28, 2019, 05:20:33 AM
It's a first world problem but so are ALL things concerning listening to classical music and storing CDs.
I am poor enough that I have to stick to by now 4 different kinds of shelves I acquired over almost two decades and cannot spend any money on new custom shelving. Furthermore, I am actually quite happy with most of my shelves partly because they do not have lots of space between discs and boards (less dust acculumation etc.)

Actually, I am surprised that BIS even bothers with new packaging. I am told everywhere that material carriers are a thing of the past and we will only stream etc. in a few years.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Omicron9 on January 28, 2019, 06:01:10 AM
My point was that in a ecopak without shrink wrap, the disc could fall out.  And sitting on warehouse shelves would allow dust to get inside and on the disc.  Handling for individual disc orders again run the risk of the CD falling out; same for inside a mailing package.  Just a thought.

-09
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Mirror Image on January 28, 2019, 06:46:45 AM
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on January 28, 2019, 12:34:14 AM
I have to admit that I've had moments of momentary puzzlement with 2-CD jewel cases, expecting the hinge on one side or the other... but ultimately I'm glad to say that it never overtaxed my deductive abilities.  8)

;D
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Kontrapunctus on January 28, 2019, 08:21:58 AM
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on January 27, 2019, 06:21:42 AM
Does the sticker have some sort of velcro that's reusable/resealable? Or is it just a sticker with glue/adhesive on the back that you have to cut apart once to access the CD, etc.?

Best,

PD
It's adhesive, but it removes cleanly with no residue left behind.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Brian on January 28, 2019, 08:26:40 AM
Now BIS's problem is I'm tempted to not buy any of their back catalogue CDs until there's a way of knowing that the CD in question will be arriving in one of these ecopaks.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on January 28, 2019, 08:39:58 AM
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on January 28, 2019, 12:34:14 AM
I have to admit that I've had moments of momentary puzzlement with 2-CD jewel cases, expecting the hinge on one side or the other... but ultimately I'm glad to say that it never overtaxed my deductive abilities.  8)

I guess I am lazy, but I find it is faster to empirically determine how it opens, which results in some fidgeting, rather than stare at it. Some fraction of the time the little tray pops out entirely. It is no big deal, because 99% of the time when I open a jewel case it is to rip the disk, which means it will never be opened again.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Wanderer on January 28, 2019, 09:50:49 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on January 21, 2019, 06:39:56 AM
Yes, there are "ecopak" style packages that made it almost impossible to get the disc out without scratching it.

That's my biggest gripe with this type of packaging. In 95% of cases the disc is in too tight and small scratches accumulate with time. Unacceptable, as far as I'm concerned. And then there are those few in which one has to bend the case at an uncomfortable angle in order to extract the CD... towards the inside of the case! Fun times.
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: bissie on February 01, 2019, 04:03:43 AM
Hello, all.

Someone pointed me to this Forum, and so I thought I'd chip in.

Here some answers from the goat's mouth:

- No, they won't be shrink-wrapped.  Would be totally illogical.  I have carried some dummies in my pockets for months now.  No sign of wear or tear, but even if there were, it is a small price to pay for the ecological gains.
- The SACD is stuck into a paper envelope before inserting into the BIS ecopak.  It does not, repeat NOT, fall out, but is easily removable.  It doesn't scratch.
- The sticker is removable.
- As of June New Releases, everything will be in the BIS ecopak.  Some even before that.

Can someone tell the moderator that it is extremely difficult for a colourblind person to see the letters needed to verify, and that a Swede doesn't necessarily know the continuation of "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy ..."  My English is better than most's, but I didn't grow up with English nursery rhymes!  Sure Mrs. Google did provide the answer, but, really....

Nice to see the interest.  Now I am hoping for our colleagues to follow suit.

Best - Robert (von Bahr, aka bissie)
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: bhodges on February 01, 2019, 05:21:21 AM
Quote from: bissie on February 01, 2019, 04:03:43 AM
Can someone tell the moderator that it is extremely difficult for a colourblind person to see the letters needed to verify, and that a Swede doesn't necessarily know the continuation of "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy ..."  My English is better than most's, but I didn't grow up with English nursery rhymes!  Sure Mrs. Google did provide the answer, but, really....

Nice to see the interest.  Now I am hoping for our colleagues to follow suit.

Best - Robert (von Bahr, aka bissie)

Hello, Robert, and welcome to GMG. Sorry about the difficulty registering. We had a flood of bots here last year, so the site's owner added a more complicated process to verify new users. So far it's working, but of course, we don't want to make it hard for real people to join.

Also, when a new user make a first post, it has to be approved by a moderator. I just approved yours, so now you're all set.

Welcome again, and enjoy your time here.

--Bruce
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Brian on February 01, 2019, 07:55:13 AM
Welcome, Robert! Big fan and avid collector of your label. In case you log back in again some time, one thing I am curious about: the press release says that once current stock of the BIS back catalogue runs out, those CDs will also be sold in the ecopak. Will there be a way for customers to know when that occurs, or will it be the responsibility of the online retailers to notate the packaging?

I ask because down the road, I will be trying to acquire these ecopaks wherever possible...
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Omicron9 on February 05, 2019, 05:34:23 AM
Quote from: bissie on February 01, 2019, 04:03:43 AM
Hello, all.

Someone pointed me to this Forum, and so I thought I'd chip in.

Here some answers from the goat's mouth:

- No, they won't be shrink-wrapped.  Would be totally illogical.  I have carried some dummies in my pockets for months now.  No sign of wear or tear, but even if there were, it is a small price to pay for the ecological gains.
- The SACD is stuck into a paper envelope before inserting into the BIS ecopak.  It does not, repeat NOT, fall out, but is easily removable.  It doesn't scratch.
- The sticker is removable.
- As of June New Releases, everything will be in the BIS ecopak.  Some even before that.

Can someone tell the moderator that it is extremely difficult for a colourblind person to see the letters needed to verify, and that a Swede doesn't necessarily know the continuation of "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy ..."  My English is better than most's, but I didn't grow up with English nursery rhymes!  Sure Mrs. Google did provide the answer, but, really....

Nice to see the interest.  Now I am hoping for our colleagues to follow suit.

Best - Robert (von Bahr, aka bissie)

Greetings, Robert and welcome to the forum.

Thank you for your clarifications and information.  I have many of your titles on my shelves, but now look forward even more to additional BIS content on the shelves.  Please do continue BIS's great work.

Kind regards,
-09
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: bissie on February 08, 2019, 03:37:11 AM
Quote from: Brian on February 01, 2019, 07:55:13 AM
Welcome, Robert! Big fan and avid collector of your label. In case you log back in again some time, one thing I am curious about: the press release says that once current stock of the BIS back catalogue runs out, those CDs will also be sold in the ecopak. Will there be a way for customers to know when that occurs, or will it be the responsibility of the online retailers to notate the packaging?

I ask because down the road, I will be trying to acquire these ecopaks wherever possible...

Yes, that's true.  We will try to change to the BIS ecopak, once stocks run out of older items.  One difficulty will be the print pricing for small quantities of the new packaging, but I will be talking to the manufacturer in early March to see what can be done.  No, there are no plans for going public with the fact, once a packaging is changed.  Would not be fair to the distributors that may be sitting on the older ones.  Anyway, I am now proof-reading one after the other of the new releases, and, even though I am partial, they do look much better than the Jewel Case.  The main thing, however, is to reduce the usage and waste of plastic and fuel to transport it.
Thanks for your nice words, and those of -09.
Robert
Title: Re: BIS is switching to "ecopak" recyclable packaging
Post by: Pat B on February 08, 2019, 01:30:14 PM
Thanks for clarifying, Robert.

I replace most of my jewel cases with space-saving sleeves (https://spacesavingsleeves.com), a process which, among other disadvantages, makes me keenly aware of the amount of plastic involved. From the photos above, it looks like your new packaging will fold flat-ish. A very nice solution!