I can't find a Strauss thread in the first dozen pages of the composer section! :o
What should we know about this composer? All I have is HvK's late DG rendition of Don Juan and Thus Spoke Zarathrustra. I haven't come to a conclusion to describe his style yet. It's very contrapuntal, sometimes dissonant, like modernism mixed with rich late-romanticism. I like it very much...
:D It IS late Romanticism!
Any good recordings to recommend? Any info to share on the composer?
You really must check those out:
http://www.amazon.com/Strauss-Metamorphosen-Verklarung-Metamorphoses-Transfiguration/dp/B00000E2OB/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1206460314&sr=1-3
http://www.amazon.com/Richard-Strauss-Eine-Alpensinfonie/dp/B000001GK2/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1206460314&sr=1-4
Great, thanks. What are those works like?
check out this(if you care about the sound):
http://www.amazon.com/Richard-Strauss-sprach-Zarathustra-Heldenleben/dp/B0002TKFQI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1206504351&sr=8-1
Quote from: Perfect FIFTH on March 25, 2008, 07:57:29 PM
Great, thanks. What are those works like?
Metamorphosen:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=EX5Vk1N7Pt0
Death and Transfiguration:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AP3l1UWcQcA
Alpine Symphony:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ai-7OAFMBsc
Quote from: Perfect FIFTH on March 24, 2008, 09:47:19 PM
What should we know about this composer? .
The real glory of Richard Strauss to be found in his
operas, with some expectional compositions outside opera like the Metamorphosen and Lieder.
Die Frau ohne Schatten,
Salome,
Elektra,
Der Rosenkavalier, and
Ariadne auf Naxos are some of my favourites.
Q
Quote from: Que on March 25, 2008, 10:23:32 PM
The real glory of Richard Strauss to be found in his operas, with some expectional compositions outside opera like the Metamorphosen and Lieder.
Die Frau ohne Schatten, Salome, Elektra, Der Rosenkavalier, and Ariadne auf Naxos are some of my favourites.
Q
Yes to me as well Richard Strauss is all about opera. But then again I am an opera fanatic ;D. Those five that you mention above
Que are the ones that I have and absolutely love. There is so much variety in musical texture between them its incredible.
Der Rosenkavalier is very lyrical, light-hearted and littered with beautiful waltzes.
Salome is all about seduction and that shock factor.
Elektra is frighteningly dissonant, frighteningly!!
Ariadne auf Naxos has some brilliant parts for soprano, Richard Strauss's favorite voice or at least the one that he liked to write most for and
Die Frau ohne Schatten is a glorious masterpiece in its own right. I'd recommend that a R. Strauss newbie start with
Der Rosenkavalier.
marvin
Quote from: marvinbrown on March 26, 2008, 03:31:52 AM
Yes to me as well Richard Strauss is all about opera. But then again I am an opera fanatic ;D. Those five that you mention above Que are the ones that I have and absolutely love. There is so much variety in musical texture between them its incredible. Der Rosenkavalier is very lyrical, light-hearted and littered with beautiful waltzes. Salome is all about seduction and that shock factor. Elektra is frighteningly dissonant, frighteningly!!Ariadne auf Naxos has some brilliant parts for soprano, Richard Strauss's favorite voice or at least the one that he liked to write most for and Die Frau ohne Schatten is a glorious masterpiece in its own right. I'd recommend that a R. Strauss newbie start with Der Rosenkavalier.
marvin
Thanks for your recommendation marvin, I have my eyes on the Kleiber DVD now. I hope the music isn't too modern in that one, as I like late-romantic works the most.
....well, late Romantic music isn't only about sweet 0:) melodies and perfect harmony. 0:).... ! LIsten also to Mahler, Reger, Zemlinsky, Schreker,Suk !
Salome and Electra contain very good,often cruel "drama" that remains modern - but isn't exactly pleasant or "fun"....
And you can't forget the Four Last Songs! They're too gloriously written to miss.
Quote from: Perfect FIFTH on March 26, 2008, 08:07:15 PM
Thanks for your recommendation marvin, I have my eyes on the Kleiber DVD now. I hope the music isn't too modern in that one, as I like late-romantic works the most.
For late romantic works I would imagine that
Der Rosenkavalier should fit the bill nicely. There are 2 Kleiber DVD recordings and they are both excellent so you can not go wrong there. Now a few words about Salome and Elektra. These two operas are "modern" masterpieces that were commercial scandalous hits- often banned from opera houses all over the world at their time. Elektra and Salome are
NOT to be missed! I'd leave Elektra until the very end as it is in my opinion the most difficult of R. Strauss's operas to absorb. But once it "clicks" it is a real joy to experience. I highly recommend this DVD recording:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513ZP7D966L._SS500_.jpg)
PS: and yes it is as frightening as it looks $:)!
marvin
Quote from: pjme on March 26, 2008, 11:34:02 PM
....well, late Romantic music isn't only about sweet 0:) melodies and perfect harmony. 0:).... ! LIsten also to Mahler, Reger, Zemlinsky, Schreker,Suk !
Salome and Electra contain very good,often cruel "drama" that remains modern - but isn't exactly pleasant or "fun"....
I'm one of the biggest Mahler nuts around here, I know how late-romanticism is like, trust me. Now lets go back to Strauss, thanks.
Quote from: Perfect FIFTH on March 27, 2008, 10:02:14 PM
I'm one of the biggest Mahler nuts around here, I know how late-romanticism is like, trust me. Now lets go back to Strauss, thanks.
I think you completely missed what pjme was saying.... well, let me try, see, Strauss isn't exactly the same sort of composer as Mahler. You see, he is more "modern" than Mahler, but less than Schoenberg, but his style is unique, very much like the style of Shostakovitch is very unique also, abeit in a different way. You simply can't clearly put him under "Late Romanticism" or "Modernism", it's kind of blurry.
All I have is HvK's late DG rendition of Don Juan and Thus Spoke Zarathrustra 0:) ???
Well, when I read this sentence .....
Anyway, I recommend Norman Del Mar's 3 volume "Richard Strauss -a Critical commentary on his life and works". ( Cornell University Press). A great source of information.
I re-read a few pages yesterday. I wish a ( very large...) virtuoso orchestra ( and chorus) would (re)record all the minor "pomp & circumstance" works Strauss wrote ...rrr, to test my speakers... 0:)
Japanische festmusik
Weimar Festmusik ( Kampf und Sieg)
Feierlicher Einzug ( original version for brass and timpani) - Del Mar mentiones that Strauss rescored the piece for orchestra with organ ad lib.
Festliches Praeludium ( large orchestra with organ) -( this piece has been recorded several times - Bernstein, Böhm ...)
Taillefer for chorus and orchestra
Bardengesang for male chorus and orchestra
Liederzyklus for chorus & orch.
(http://musicweb-international.com/classrev/2000/sept00/strausschoral.jpg)
I don't know if this disc is still available. The live perfomances are quite good (see :http://musicweb-international.com/classrev/2000/sept00/strausschoral.htm) - the cover art really disturbingly bad.
Peter
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/411S1N2EQPL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Strauss-Orchestral-Works-Wolfgang-Liebscher/dp/B000026D4K/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1206701197&sr=8-1)
Should satisfy on the orchestral front ;D
His first 3 (ignore the non famous pre-Salome ones) operas are essential. Salome is short and punchy, Elektra is creepier, Rosenkavalier is like drowning in chocolate for 3 hours (in a good way). The next two are also essential but less easy-going. The plot to Ariadne auf Naxos is just weird, but nothing compared to the weirdness (and length) of Die Frau ohne Schatten. It's difficult to know what to make of the second half of his operatic output, but if you like the three latter works, you will find a lot to enjoy later on (although nothing like Salome or Elektra).
Quote from: Lethe on March 28, 2008, 02:50:08 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/411S1N2EQPL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Strauss-Orchestral-Works-Wolfgang-Liebscher/dp/B000026D4K/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1206701197&sr=8-1)
Should satisfy on the orchestral front ;D
His first 3 (ignore the non famous pre-Salome ones) operas are essential. Salome is short and punchy, Elektra is creepier, Rosenkavalier is like drowning in chocolate for 3 hours (in a good way). The next two are also essential but less easy-going. The plot to Ariadne auf Naxos is just weird, but nothing compared to the weirdness (and length) of Die Frau ohne Schatten. It's difficult to know what to make of the second half of his operatic output, but if you like the three latter works, you will find a lot to enjoy later on (although nothing like Salome or Elektra).
Nice, thanks for the recommendation Lethe! :)
My review of the Bohm Ariadne
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,142.msg153620.html#msg153620
A thread on the Four Last Songs here
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,4103.0.html
Strauss operas here
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,161.0.html
Mike
Quote from: Lethe on March 28, 2008, 02:50:08 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/411S1N2EQPL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Strauss-Orchestral-Works-Wolfgang-Liebscher/dp/B000026D4K/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1206701197&sr=8-1)
Should satisfy on the orchestral front ;D
I heartily agree!!
Quote from: rubio on March 29, 2008, 03:19:20 AM
I heartily agree!!
How old is that Kempe set by the way, I know for sure it's not modern sound...
Quote from: Perfect FIFTH on March 29, 2008, 03:03:45 PM
How old is that Kempe set by the way, I know for sure it's not modern sound...
IIRC they are early 70s, and sound clear and powerful, although not state of the art.
Quote from: Perfect FIFTH on March 29, 2008, 03:03:45 PM
How old is that Kempe set by the way, I know for sure it's not modern sound...
Oh noes, now recordings made in the late 70s are historical?
Most of this set has excellent sound, very full and rich.
Quote from: Perfect FIFTH on March 29, 2008, 03:03:45 PM
How old is that Kempe set by the way, I know for sure it's not modern sound...
The sound is okay, really, not very well-defined as the one with Reiner/CSO on Living Stereo.
Good, sounds great. THanks!
Naxos has issued a new recording of the Four Last Songs with Ricarda Merbeth, the Weimar Statskapelle and conducted by Michael Halasz. There is an excerpt on the Gramophone disc; the voice is exciting, well produced, strong and she uses the words. The track is a song I don't know and the couplings have avoided the obvious. I fancy getting it and hearing what they do with the main event.
Mike
another very satisfying Ein Heldenleben
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/514BJ64PM3L._SS500_.jpg)
Quote from: Gustav on March 29, 2008, 04:17:31 PM
The sound is okay, really, not very well-defined as the one with Reiner/CSO on Living Stereo.
Quote from: Daverz on March 29, 2008, 03:26:49 PM
Oh noes, now recordings made in the late 70s are historical?
Most of this set has excellent sound, very full and rich.
I think "the truth" is somewhere in the middle, the sound is indeed generally very rich and also mostly very transparent (which is also a function of the orchestra's playing), but it can be a little bright and harsh sometimes. In any case, the sound is vastly superior to the Reiner recording on RCA which does not diminish the achievement of the RCA engineers, just puts it into its historical place. For the time, they were quite good, and they were also among the earlier stereo releases back then, but they also sound very muddy and flat in general. The impression some people have that they are very "well defined" isn't really true but comes from the careful and clever highlighting the RCA people did. They brought some of the elements to the foreground and EQed them very brightly, so they sound "brilliant" and "well defined", but also very artificial. It kind of sounds like someone took a bright marker to a dim and underexposed image and outlined some of the shapes. But it doesn't matter that much anyway because musically, the recording is pretty irrelevant. Reiner was a good orchestra trainer, but after he had rehearsed them to death and terrorized them into playing all the right notes in the right places (more or less, there are actually a lot of flaws in the playing on this recording, although it is not always easy to hear that in the general background noise behind the highlighted elements), not much music making happened. The CSO certainly does not come anywhere near the SD in the freedom and richness of the playing, the lyrical and very idiomatic way they play the music. That can be heard in any of ther recordings, but it is particularly interesting to listen to the Böhm recording which was made by DG only a few years later - in 1957, I think - but still in mono. Unfortunately - or maybe not. A lot of recording companies back then thought the time wasn't ripe for stereo just yet, and I think they were right. In any case, the playing is musically and stylistically vastly superior to what the CSO managed to achieve under Reiner. It is obvious that what he tried to do was to teach them to play in the kind of lean and defined but very sonorous way the SD play, but that's not so easy and they didn't quite get there.
But no matter what recordings one might want to compare the Kempe recordings to, it basically doesn't get any better musically and stylistically, the playing is as "idiomatic" as it gets, too. Not without reason was the SD Strauss' favorite orchestra. And Kempe who had grown up in that tradition and studied at the orchestra's own music school understood and lived that musical tradition, so this set belongs into the colleciton of anyone who likes to listen to Strauss' music. Interestingly, it was my bass teacher who first turned me on to these. He had played in the BP for 42 years and when we talked about Strauss, he said "well, I guess we play the music quite well, too, but nobody can play it like they do in Dresden, so you should listen to these recordings"...
Interesting stuff M, really. I wish I had time to contribute a bit more; the late romantic is the heart of the repertory and the great 20th century conductors I have a strong feeling will never be surpassed, at least not until a different socio-historical period.
Hi,
Does anybody know, is this set:
http://music.brilliantclassics.com/epages/joan.storefront/4811850d00100e43271ed5d385f4065f/Product/View/7591 (http://music.brilliantclassics.com/epages/joan.storefront/4811850d00100e43271ed5d385f4065f/Product/View/7591)
same as this:
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=10406 (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=10406)
By comparing soloists and conductor/orchestra I see it is. But what about sound quality?
Thanks
The BC set is identical to the EMI and has not had a remastering done to it. As they currently sell for around the same price, I'd get the EMI, as its packaging is less garish.
Recently I revisited Elektra on videotape, a PBS broadcast from the Met in the 1990's of Hildegard Behrens and the then very unthin Deborah Voigt.
I used it in my German IV classes. In any case, the first time I became acquainted with the work, it struck me as possessing a mistake in dramaturgy.
The "mistake" is the return of Aegisthes very near the end: it is not so much that he returns near the end, since the action needs him to get inside the palace.
The mistake is that he is portrayed as comic relief. Drunk, he is led inside by Elektra through a series of nudge-nudge wink-wink lines to be executed.
Given that there has been a hint of stepfatherly sexual abuse in Elektra's description of her life under the same roof with Aegisthes, one would think that any scene between them would not be one of comic relief!
Strauss' music, however, becomes all too comical at this section: neither he nor Hofmannsthal saw anything wrong here with comic relief so near the end.
I believe it impedes the dramatic dynamism, the inexorable bloodlust building up throughout the action: everything comes screeching to a halt while Aegisthes stumbles around and listens to Elektra's double entendres.
There! I said it! And I'm glad I tell you! Glad!!! :o
We need some more Strauss talk here! Isn't it remarkable that such a major composer could have so many of his fine concertos so often overlooked? The horn concertos tend to be known simply for their choice of solo instrument, but the others (Oboe, Basson & Clarinet, Violin) are very obscure to English speakers. The violin concerto's neglect in particular is puzzling, as the general classical audience usually cannot get enough of the Romantic solo violin/orchestra combination.
Anyway, I came here with a question: how many movements (if any) does the Sinfonia Domestica have? My recording with Kempe divides it into five (with a "wiegenlied" between the scherzo and adagio), but Wikipedia suggests four, with no mention of that interleaving movement. Or perhaps the movements Wikipedia lists are just "sections", used as a guide with no intent for formal division?
There are 5 ones:
1. Opening movement (exposition of themes)
2. Scherzo
3. Wiegenlied
4. Adagio
5. Finale
Oh yeah, the violin concerto is fantastic ! 0:)
A few weeks ago I watched Salome. Some gorgeous music, but the opera itself made me feel ill at ease. :-\
Quote from: DavidW on October 20, 2009, 02:13:30 PM
A few weeks ago I watched Salome. Some gorgeous music, but the opera itself made me feel ill at ease. :-\
What was the performance? I watched it earlier this Spring. It was a Royal Opera House Kultur video production, quite racy! :o Featured Maria Ewing, and conducted by Edward Downes
Quote from: Brahmsian on October 21, 2009, 10:08:38 AM
What was the performance? I watched it earlier this Spring. It was a Royal Opera House Kultur video production, quite racy! :o Featured Maria Ewing, and conducted by Edward Downes
Malfitano, Sinopoli for me (that's what netflix had).
I have seen neither Ewing nor Malfitano (heard good comments about both), but I can heartily recommend this one, with Teresa Stratas and Astrid Varnay. It's actually a filmed version, with the singers lip-synching, but you hardly notice once the thing gets going.
The opera definitely makes one a bit queasy, especially in a really fine production. But I love it that Strauss used some of the most beautiful music imaginable (especially in the final half-hour) in tandem with such disgusting imagery. (Perhaps that's why some people prefer the final scene in a concert version! ;D)
--Bruce
Beautiful music + disgusting imagery: the Birth of Eurotrash!
;D 8)
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 21, 2009, 11:22:03 AM
Beautiful music + disgusting imagery: the Birth of Eurotrash!
;D 8)
RS would be proud of that honour, I'm sure. ;D
Quote from: bhodges on October 21, 2009, 11:15:52 AM
The opera definitely makes one a bit queasy, especially in a really fine production.
Perhaps a warning should be put on the label: Avoid eating at least two hours prior to viewing. :D
Quote from: Brahmsian on October 21, 2009, 11:26:02 AM
Perhaps a warning should be put on the label: Avoid eating at least two hours prior to viewing. :D
Not a bad idea at all... 8) I know I prefer to dine
after. (And nothing with a head on it, either. ;D)
--Bruce
Quote from: bhodges on October 21, 2009, 11:33:02 AM
Not a bad idea at all... 8) I know I prefer to dine after. (And nothing with a head on it, either. ;D)
--Bruce
No pork roast with apple in hog's mouth, Bruce? :D
No Prophet Fricassee?
Quote from: Brahmsian on October 21, 2009, 11:49:57 AM
No pork roast with apple in hog's mouth, Bruce? :D
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 21, 2009, 11:50:51 AM
No Prophet Fricassee?
Of course the Hitchcockian side of me would say, "SURE!" ;D
--Bruce
I've adored his music since I was a teenager, and feel that he's actually a very underrated composer, having been subject for so long to witheringly dismissive comments about some of his works by so many critics, particularly his later operas, such as Die Schweigsame Frau(The Silent Woman), Friedenstag, Arabella, Die Agyptische Helena,Intermezzo,
Daphne, and Die Liebe Der Danae, which I've gotten to know better and enjoy in recent years.
I love the description of listening to Der Rosenkavalier as "drowning in chocolate". I love chocolate,too.
Yes, Strauss is musical chocolate, but you won't get fat listening to his music !
Try his little-known but deliciously decadent ballet score "Josephslegende" (The legend of Joseph.)
about the famous Biblical incident of Joseph and Potiphar's wife. This is like gorging on a tray of
lucious pastries ! There are recordings by Sinopoli/Dreseden on DG and Hiroshi Wakasugi and a Japanese orchestra on Denon ,and the Kempe/Dresden set has excerpts. But I don't know if the first two are still available.
The final Strauss opera, Capriccio, is a curious but delightful work , and is an opera about the writing of an opera, and aristocrats, a composer and poet discussing the aesthetics of opera. Not much action, but the libretto is very witty,and full of in jokes, and the music is gorgeous.
The are so many fine recordings of music by Strauss it's hard to know where to begin.!
Quote from: Superhorn on October 21, 2009, 01:52:22 PM
The final Strauss opera, Capriccio, is a curious but delightful work , and is an opera about the writing of an opera, and aristocrats, a composer and poet discussing the aesthetics of opera. Not much action, but the libretto is very witty,and full of in jokes, and the music is gorgeous.
I was at Kiri te Kanawa's final performance of this opera (as the Countess) at the Met back in 1998, and agree that there is a lot of great music in it. In the Met's staging of the final scene, when the character is gazing at herself in the mirror, they took out the mirror, so she was looking into the void, i.e., the future. I thought it was very moving.
--Bruce
Just discovered Strauss' Deutsche motette via this CD:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002PJ8AF6/ref=s9_simh_gw_p15_i1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=1NX39BVFEX1BERDDVXYV&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=467198433&pf_rd_i=468294
what an amazing piece! Incredibly beautiful. Didn't even know he wrote for unaccompanied voices.
It is strange; I thought I had written about this disc, but I cannot find it via search. The whole disc is beautiful and the choir is sensational. It is a short disc, but worth all the cost. The initial piece has been likened to the Tallis 40 part motet. There is some resonance between them, no doubt coincidental, but there is the ecstatic soaring of voices in common. The soloists are first rate. A favourite disc of mine.
Mike
Would like to buy Kempe's collection of the Orchestral Works but the latest EMI incarnation (which appears to be out of print) is a little too expensive on Amazon. I did discover the set has been released by Brilliant Classics whose products I have not had any experience with -- should the Brilliant set be of the same aural quality as the EMI? (I am not as concerned with the physical presentation)
Is Kempe's the most comprehensive collection of Strauss' orchestral work? Does anybody else even come close in one collection?
Quote from: BMW on May 26, 2010, 03:12:16 PM
Would like to buy Kempe's collection of the Orchestral Works but the latest EMI incarnation (which appears to be out of print) is a little too expensive on Amazon. I did discover the set has been released by Brilliant Classics whose products I have not had any experience with -- should the Brilliant set be of the same aural quality as the EMI? (I am not as concerned with the physical presentation)
Is Kempe's the most comprehensive collection of Strauss' orchestral work? Does anybody else even come close in one collection?
I believe Brilliant may do some mild tinkering with the sound when they remaster, but I can't see that they'd have any motivation to make the sound worse.
Brilliant's profit margins are too small to afford to remaster CDs that sound good already, as the Kempe ones do. As to whether any other multi CD Strauss orchestral music set can compete with Kempe, certainly none I have seen reviewed seem to. There is a 7 CD Zinman set on Arte Nova, but the performances are apparently only servicable.
Quote from: Lethe on May 27, 2010, 04:34:52 AM
Brilliant's profit margins are too small to afford to remaster CDs that sound good already, as the Kempe ones do. As to whether any other multi CD Strauss orchestral music set can compete with Kempe, certainly none I have seen reviewed seem to. There is a 7 CD Zinman set on Arte Nova, but the performances are apparently only servicable.
Brilliant's issues of EMI opera releases use the most recent EMI remasterings, so I would assume the non-opera issues would follow suit. Where they cut corners is in the very barebones packaging. For instance, you need to download the libretto from Brilliant's website, and the librettos are only in the original language of the opera--no translations that I know of. But assuming the packaging is a secondary consideration, they're one of the best-beckoning Brilliant bargains.
I find, btw, the Zinman set to be much better than serviceable; to my ears they vary from mainstream qood guality to excellent; the only two works I don't particularly like in that set--the Alpine Symphony and Sinfonia Domestica--are exactly the two works I like the least, so I'm not faulting Zinman with those.
Also, again, since it's a budget re-issue, it's one of those sets that are worthwhile investments even if you only like two or three works out of the whole set.
you will need -
all the reiner/cso strauss
the newest pittsburgh symphony recording of the alpine symphony (marek janowski)
also pick up some toscanini and kempe versions of strauss
the operas as you see fit
enjoy :)
dj
Quote from: Que on March 25, 2008, 10:23:32 PM
The real glory of Richard Strauss to be found in his operas, with some expectional compositions outside opera like the Metamorphosen and Lieder.
He also has a gorgeous violin sonata (in E flat, op.18). Here's a recording of it;
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518tijTbzSL._SS500_.jpg)
Quote from: david johnson on May 28, 2010, 04:31:44 AM
you will need -
all the reiner/cso strauss
A copy of Reiner's
Don Quixote from the local Wherehouse's going out of business sale is actually what turned me on to Strauss years ago -- I will keep an eye out for more of his Strauss...based on the recordings of his I have heard, I know he is one of the best when it comes to this sort of repertoire.
Thank you all for the suggestions (and the information on Brilliant); I will get around to acquiring some combination of the above in the near future (i.e. when the budget allows). :)
This is the main R.Strauss thread? That's hard to believe...
anyway, here we go:
Dip Your Ears, No. 104
Richard Strauss - Alpine Symphony - Haitink, LSO Live
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2010/07/dip-your-ears-no-104.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2010/07/dip-your-ears-no-104.html)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51KqS7DB6IL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0032Z1IFQ/goodmusicguide-20)
Is there a recording of Ariadne I to be had? I can't seem to find one.
Quote from: Guido on July 28, 2010, 11:42:05 AM
Is there a recording of Ariadne I to be had? I can't seem to find one.
Karajan (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00000K4GG?ie=UTF8&tag=goodmusicguide-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00000K4GG)
Levine (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000267EY?ie=UTF8&tag=goodmusicguide-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B0000267EY)
Solti (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000024368?ie=UTF8&tag=goodmusicguide-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000024368)
Masur (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000787WW4?ie=UTF8&tag=goodmusicguide-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000787WW4)
Karajan still in print, the other ones easily to be had used/new from 3rd party sellers. Only Sinopoli (perhaps my favorite) is oop
and not easily had for little money.
Quote from: jlaurson on July 28, 2010, 03:21:41 PM
Only Sinopoli (perhaps my favorite) is oop and not easily had for little money.
http://www.amazon.de/Brilliant-Opera-Collect-Strauss-Ariadne/dp/B001RIGDHS
Quote from: jlaurson on July 28, 2010, 03:21:41 PM
Karajan (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00000K4GG?ie=UTF8&tag=goodmusicguide-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00000K4GG)
Levine (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000267EY?ie=UTF8&tag=goodmusicguide-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B0000267EY)
Solti (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000024368?ie=UTF8&tag=goodmusicguide-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000024368)
Masur (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000787WW4?ie=UTF8&tag=goodmusicguide-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000787WW4)
Karajan still in print, the other ones easily to be had used/new from 3rd party sellers. Only Sinopoli (perhaps my favorite) is oop and not easily had for little money.
These all look like they are Ariadne II, rather than Ariadne I. Unless they've just tagged the prologue onto Ariadne I... I have the Karajan actually, and it is Ariadne II as far as I am aware.
Quote from: Guido on July 28, 2010, 04:03:05 PM
These all look like they are Ariadne II, rather than Ariadne I. Unless they've just tagged the prologue onto Ariadne I... I have the Karajan actually, and it is Ariadne II as far as I am aware.
Oh, "I" meant "1"... and I thought it was an errant "i" with no meaning.
Without doing any checking: I thought Ariadne I was basically the 2nd part of the opera we know i.e. the actual presentation of Ariadne on Naxos, played after a performance of a German-language version of Molière's Le bourgeois gentilhomme with the well-known Strauss music as accompaniment. Is anybody up for a couple of hours of Der Bürger als Edelmann before digging into the opera bit? How many CDs would that be? The whole point of the revised version is to present a modern prologue in the tradition of Molière, which of course Hofmannsthal accomplished with bravura.
The Sinopoli version now on Brilliant is very fine in its way, orchestrally the best, but I persist in regarding two "lives" by Karl Böhm (not otherwise one of my favorite conductors) as the nec plus ultra of Strauss interpretation (apart from Clemens Krauss`s Rosenkavalier), both with Irmgard Seefried as the definitive Composer, in pretty murky sound unfortunately - 1944 (Reining, Lorenz, Noni) and 1954 (della Casa, Güden...only Schock is a bit overparted, compared with Lorenz in 44). Then come the Karajan and the Kempe. I used to agree with those who denigrate the ending in comparison with the rest - but if you can hear it as the almost Rilkean Verwandlung or Übersteigung it becomes with Böhm/Reining/Lorenz, as transformative ecstasy, as one does parts of the Alpine symphony, then it works - as Straussian illusion, of course - "du meine Zauberin"...
I am unclear whether I have the wrong end of the stick. I am assuming the request is about the original version of 1912, written to be paired with 'Der Burger als Edlemann' (le Bourgeois gentlehomme).
The normal version we hear is the revised 1916 one.
One recording exists of the original version and it is paired as above. Nagano on Virgin Classics. Margaret Price is still worth hearing, though in 1997 was a little past her very best. In version 1, the play is performed and not the prologe, so no Composer. There are a number of other alterations, but that is the most obvious one.
Mike
EDIT: I have just been going through the discs. The play is much cut and there is a lot more music within it than I had recalled.
Quote from: mjwal on July 29, 2010, 05:08:30 AM
Without doing any checking: I thought Ariadne I was basically the 2nd part of the opera we know i.e. the actual presentation of Ariadne on Naxos, played after a performance of a German-language version of Molière's Le bourgeois gentilhomme with the well-known Strauss music as accompaniment. Is anybody up for a couple of hours of Der Bürger als Edelmann before digging into the opera bit? How many CDs would that be? The whole point of the revised version is to present a modern prologue in the tradition of Molière, which of course Hofmannsthal accomplished with bravura.
The Sinopoli version now on Brilliant is very fine in its way, orchestrally the best, but I persist in regarding two "lives" by Karl Böhm (not otherwise one of my favorite conductors) as the nec plus ultra of Strauss interpretation (apart from Clemens Krauss`s Rosenkavalier), both with Irmgard Seefried as the definitive Composer, in pretty murky sound unfortunately - 1944 (Reining, Lorenz, Noni) and 1954 (della Casa, Güden...only Schock is a bit overparted, compared with Lorenz in 44). Then come the Karajan and the Kempe. I used to agree with those who denigrate the ending in comparison with the rest - but if you can hear it as the almost Rilkean Verwandlung or Übersteigung it becomes with Böhm/Reining/Lorenz, as transformative ecstasy, as one does parts of the Alpine symphony, then it works - as Straussian illusion, of course - "du meine Zauberin"...
Although it is similar, there are several differences (aside from the prologue being absent). In Ariadne I, Zerbinetta's aria is 80 bars longer, she has a second aria at the end, and there is less buffo commentary. It's a more serious work, and many say that it is finer, though I think the prologue is one of the most brilliant things that Strauss ever wrote. Mike is right in what he says about the versions.
Thanks Mike - I'll definitely try and get it.
Guido, Good luck, let me know what you think of it. I need to give it another spin. The play is definitely a curiosity and I frankly don't get much out of it, music aside, but the Version 1 of Ariadne is as you suggest different in its feel. Sumi Jo is an excellent Zerbinetta and From what I recall, Nagano brings to the fore the beautiful textures.
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,555.msg435682.html#msg435682
Post 151: a review of a Strauss song disc.
Mike
Quote from: Que on March 25, 2008, 10:23:32 PM
The real glory of Richard Strauss to be found in his operas
I disagree wholeheartedly with this statement. A lot of thought, time, heart, and effort were put into his orchestral works, especially the tone poems. The full glory of Strauss is in the marvellous orchestration and the rich melodies. Opera didn't happen for Strauss until later on in his life. To ignore his orchestral output would be to ignore his music in general.
Here are a few of my favorite Strauss recordings:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_QMIBbvsVy9M/SFc2WIiK-EI/AAAAAAAAAZw/lT3QW67W_1s/s320/Strauss%2BAn%2Balpine%2Bsymphony%2Bkarajan.jpg) (http://www.classicalarchives.com/images/coverart/9/4/6/1/095115119921_300.jpg)
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/6f/6d/29ffa2c008a0380a05166010.L.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41WMR8ZXZJL.jpg) (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2003/Nov03/Strauss_zinman_74321984952.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41SFD07HE3L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 29, 2010, 08:56:32 AM
I disagree wholeheartedly with this statement. A lot of thought, time, heart, and effort were put into his orchestral works, especially the tone poems. The full glory of Strauss is in the marvellous orchestration and the rich melodies. Opera didn't happen for Strauss until later on in his life. To ignore his orchestral output would be to ignore his music in general.
The question is not about ignoring it, the question is about finding a heigthened value. I adore Strauss' tone poems, but without his operas, he'd be a second rank composer; not even a match for Bruckner or Mahler.
Anyone who appreciates his operas, however, will know better. It's the refinement of his art (nor did he start that late with them...). Talking about orchestration is talking about his operas. Making an arbitrary cut at Alpensinfonie would sell Strauss short.
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 29, 2010, 08:56:32 AMTo ignore his orchestral output would be to ignore his music in general.
To ignore his orchestral output would be to ignore
half of his music in general. Although I came to Strauss first through orchestral music, I feel he came into his own when he started to write Opera.
Quote from: jlaurson on July 29, 2010, 09:19:33 AM
The question is not about ignoring it, the question is about finding a heigthened value. I adore Strauss' tone poems, but without his operas, he'd be a second rank composer; not even a match for Bruckner or Mahler.
Anyone who appreciates his operas, however, will know better. It's the refinement of his art (nor did he start that late with them...). Talking about orchestration is talking about his operas. Making an arbitrary cut at Alpensinfonie would sell Strauss short.
Well that is your opinion and you have every right to it, doesn't mean I agree with it. Your remark about Mahler and Bruckner is totally ignorant. Music isn't about competition. If Strauss never touched opera, he would still be a great composer and far from a "second rank" one as you suggest. Nobody sounds like Strauss and he had a unique compositional voice.
Quote from: Scarpia on July 29, 2010, 09:21:00 AM
To ignore his orchestral output would be to ignore half of his music in general. Although I came to Strauss first through orchestral music, I feel he came into his own when he started to write Opera.
Considering that I
HATE opera, I could careless how well he wrote for it.
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 29, 2010, 09:39:17 AM
Considering that I HATE opera, I could careless how well he wrote for it.
Maybe you wouldn't hate it so much if you listened to Strauss. 8)
Quote from: Scarpia on July 29, 2010, 09:40:12 AM
Maybe you wouldn't hate it so much if you listened to Strauss. 8)
I doubt it Scarpia. There are only a few operas I actually can tolerate: Delius'
A Village Romeo & Juliet and
Fennimore And Gerda and Debussy's
Pelleas et Melisande. I enjoyed these pretty well. I have heard good things about RVW's operas as well.
I'm not much into vocals, so this is perhaps one reason opera has never appealed to me.
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 29, 2010, 09:44:14 AMI'm not much into vocals, so this is perhaps one reason opera has never appealed to me.
Strauss Opera has some ravishing orchestral music.
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 29, 2010, 08:56:32 AM
I disagree wholeheartedly with this statement. A lot of thought, time, heart, and effort were put into his orchestral works, especially the tone poems. The full glory of Strauss is in the marvellous orchestration and the rich melodies. Opera didn't happen for Strauss until later on in his life. To ignore his orchestral output would be to ignore his music in general.
The tone poems were arguably the more important in terms of the history of music, i.e. in terms of how influential to subsequent composers they were, though Salome and Elektra certainly opened the way towards expressionist opera. After that he tended to do his own thing with little regard to the musical establishment (and vice versa). Like the operas, many of the tone poems are flawed, but survive because they contain much great music and can dazzle like almost no other composer. Pieces like Don Quixote and Till Eulenspiegel though are without question as glorious as his best operatic creations.
As an avid (rabid?) Straussian myself, I can see all too well his limitations and weaknesses and fully acknowledge that large swathes of his music are uninspired. Alpensinfonie for instance is a tawdry work for all its impressive effects and supposed grandness of spiritual message. There are passages of astonishing descriptive detail, let alone visceral power, and much is beautiful, but much is also humdrum, and as was so often the case with Strauss - if his heart wasn't completely in it, the result is perfectly and brilliantly executed banality. In this regard it is analogous to Die Frau Ohne Schatten (and isn't it interesting that those who love the Alpensinfonie tend also to love poor Frosch as well!).
Josephslegende is much worse.
Quote from: Scarpia on July 29, 2010, 09:51:34 AM
Strauss Opera has some ravishing orchestral music.
I'll opt out for the suites then. :D
Quote from: Scarpia on July 29, 2010, 09:51:34 AM
Strauss Opera has some ravishing orchestral music.
Yes definitely - just in Capriccio there's the wonderful Mondscheinmusik and the sextet overture, the verwandlung and Mondscheinmusik in Daphne (i.e. the final scene, which is essentially orchestral with vocalise), The Zwischenspiel in Danae, both overtures in Ariadne. These are all amongst the most gorgeous things that Strauss wrote and no one who loves his orchestral music should be without them.
There are quite a few suites and fragments arranged from the operas too, but I've never got much pleasure out of those. Most seem rather tired and humdrum to me - the Danae fragment is OK, but the Rosenkavalier waltz suites are just awful, and the one from Die Frau Ohne Schatten also wholly fails to convince. The interludes from Intermezzo are, aptly enough, the best music in the opera though and well worth searching out!
Quote from: Guido on July 29, 2010, 10:03:22 AM
Yes definitely - just in Capriccio there's the wonderful Mondscheinmusik and the sextet overture, the verwandlung and Mondscheinmusik in Danae (i.e. the final scene, which is essentially orchestral with vocalise), The Zwischenspiel in Danae, both overtures in Ariadne. These are all amongst the most gorgeous things that Strauss wrote and no one who loves his orchestral music should be without them.
There are quite a few suites and fragments arranged from the operas too, but I've never got much pleasure out of those. Most seem rather tired and humdrum to me - the Danae fragment is OK, but the Rosenkavalier waltz suites are just awful, and the Frau Ohne Schatten also wholly fails to convince. The interludes from Intermezzo are, aptly enough, the best music in the opera though and well worth searching out!
I'll just stick with his orchestral music like I always have. Screw the operas.
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 29, 2010, 10:09:10 AM
I'll just stick with his orchestral music like I always have. Screw the operas.
OK whatever, but believe me, the fragments I listed are probably his most beautiful purely orchestral utterances.
Quote from: Guido on July 29, 2010, 10:03:22 AM
Yes definitely - just in Capriccio there's the wonderful Mondscheinmusik and the sextet overture, the verwandlung and Mondscheinmusik in Danae (i.e. the final scene, which is essentially orchestral with vocalise), The Zwischenspiel in Danae, both overtures in Ariadne. These are all amongst the most gorgeous things that Strauss wrote and no one who loves his orchestral music should be without them.
I've literally never heard of Danae.
An obscure work by Strauss that impressed me was Daphne, particularly some of the orchestral writing.
Quote from: Guido on July 29, 2010, 09:52:06 AM
As an avid (rabid?) Straussian myself, I can see all too well his limitations and weaknesses and fully acknowledge that large swathes of his music are uninspired. Alpensinfonie for instance is a tawdry work for all its impressive effects and supposed grandness of spiritual message. There are passages of astonishing descriptive detail, let alone visceral power, and much is beautiful, but much is also humdrum, and as was so often the case with Strauss - if his heart wasn't completely in it, the result is perfectly and brilliantly executed banality.
I disagree here. I thought the same having heard it only with Karajan/BPO on CD. I would say: If the heart of the
conducter isn't completely in it, the result sounds brilliantly banal. When I listened to Kempe/Dresden, I felt deep affection. The "grandness of spiritual message" you mentioned arrived.
In my opinion, his finest and most deeply moving orchestral works are: Don Juan, Don Quixote, Ein Heldenleben and Eine Alpensinfonie.
The sinfonia domestica has some beautiful moments, and I really love the first half of Tod & Verklärung. Till Eulenspiegel is a genuine composition, but I've heard in too often. I think it's more discriptive than his later tone poems.
Quote from: Scarpia on July 29, 2010, 10:14:09 AM
I've literally never heard of Danae.
An obscure work by Strauss that impressed me was Daphne, particularly some of the orchestral writing.
Sorry I corrected the post above - the verwandlung and Mondscheinmusik is Daphne, not Danae, or
Die Liebe der Danae to give it its full title. It's Strauss' penultimate opera and contains hints of the late Straussian warmth - this element in its ascendancy - first heard in Daphne's final scene (and then first fully realised in Capriccio and then on to the other late works). Danae has got a very beautiful zwischenspiel and soprano aria (in Strauss? Never!) and the final scene is really very beautiful. It also contains some of the best writing for male voice that Strauss composed - in this and Capriccio he seems to have finally cracked it! It's a warm score, but like most of the other operas of the 1930s by Strauss its hardly top notch - lots of langours despite passing beauties. Still very enjoyable if you don't mind the second rate material.
Quote from: rappy on July 29, 2010, 10:23:58 AM
I disagree here. I thought the same having heard it only with Karajan/BPO on CD. I would say: If the heart of the conducter isn't completely in it, the result sounds brilliantly banal. When I listened to Kempe/Dresden, I felt deep affection. The "grandness of spiritual message" you mentioned arrived.
In my opinion, his finest and most deeply moving orchestral works are: Don Juan, Don Quixote, Ein Heldenleben and Eine Alpensinfonie.
The sinfonia domestica has some beautiful moments, and I really love the first half of Tod & Verklärung. Till Eulenspiegel is a genuine composition, but I've heard in too often. I think it's more discriptive than his later tone poems.
As much as I like Karajan's (and Kempe's) performance of
Alpine Symphony, my heart belongs to Jarvi's performance with the Royal Scottish National Orchestra. A riveting performance from start to finish.
In fact, I prefer Jarvi's Strauss recordings to those of Karajan, Kempe, Zinman, Previn, Haitink, Sinopoli, etc. There's something about Neeme Jarvi and the RSNO that felt so
right.
OK I will try Kempe - Karajan was in fact the version I had heard, though I have heard it in concert too a few times. I don't hate it by any means, but I get tired of the view that it stands at the top of his symphonic achievement.
Quote from: Guido on July 29, 2010, 10:40:19 AM
OK I will try Kempe - Karajan was in fact the version I had heard, though I have heard it in concert too a few times. I don't hate it by any means, but I get tired of the view that it stands at the top of his symphonic achievement.
It's not my favorite work by Strauss, but I do enjoy it. I'm much more into
Don Juan, Metamorphosen, Oboe Concerto, both Horn Concertos, Four Last Songs, Ein Heldenleben, Tod und Verklarung, etc.
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 29, 2010, 10:46:27 AM
It's not my favorite work by Strauss, but I do enjoy it. I'm much more into Don Juan, Metamorphosen, Oboe Concerto, both Horn Concertos, Four Last Songs, Ein Heldenleben, Tod und Verklarung, etc.
Four Last Songs? If you like them, then maybe you should try some Strauss excerpts - the final scene from Capriccio which is very similar in style and just as staggeringly beautiful, the Marschallin's Monologue from Rosenkavalier, The duet from Arabella.
This CD in fact, which is probably my single most played CD of all time:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Q052T57CL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Quote from: Guido on July 29, 2010, 10:25:13 AM
Sorry I corrected the post above - the verwandlung and Mondscheinmusik is Daphne, not Danae, or Die Liebe der Danae to give it its full title. It's Strauss' penultimate opera and contains hints of the late Straussian warmth - this element in its ascendancy - first heard in Daphne's final scene (and then first fully realised in Capriccio and then on to the other late works). Danae has got a very beautiful zwischenspiel and soprano aria (in Strauss? Never!) and the final scene is really very beautiful. It also contains some of the best writing for male voice that Strauss composed - in this and Capriccio he seems to have finally cracked it! It's a warm score, but like most of the other operas of the 1930s by Strauss its hardly top notch - lots of langours despite passing beauties. Still very enjoyable if you don't mind the second rate material.
Any comments on recordings of Die Liebe der Danae. Not many choices I see, one on Telarc another on CPO....
Quote from: Guido on July 29, 2010, 11:00:28 AM
Four Last Songs? If you like them, then maybe you should try some Strauss excerpts - the final scene from Capriccio which is very similar in style and just as staggeringly beautiful, the Marschallin's Monologue from Rosenkavalier, The duet from Arabella.
This CD in fact, which is probably my single most played CD of all time:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Q052T57CL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
That Fleming CD is spectacular; she, Bonney and Graham sound really glorious together. And another vote for the final scene of
Capriccio, one of Strauss's most inspired creations, and that monologue from
Rosenkavalier.
--Bruce
Just found a rave review for Christine Brewer's new Richard Strauss CD, here (http://outwestarts.blogspot.com/2010/07/is-this-recording-of-year.html) (with link to the CD at Arkiv).
--Bruce
Quote from: Scarpia on July 29, 2010, 11:06:23 AM
Any comments on recordings of Die Liebe der Danae. Not many choices I see, one on Telarc another on CPO....
I have Lauren Flanigan in the title role with Leon Botstein conducting the American Symphony Orchestra and Kupper/Krauss. Neither is a dream recording - Flanigan's singing is often lovely but can get rather unstable and wobbly when the music is taxing. The other version I haven't really listened to much but again Kupper doesn't seem to be an ideal interpeter - it's well enough sung, often beautiful, but there's a certain monotony to the expression I find which makes it a bit tiring to listen to after a while.
Haven't heard Zach/Windfuhr which is meant to be very good. And I think it's uncut.
All three are very expensive, and I'm not sure that this opera is so unmissable that it deserves the asking price... so unless you're loaded, wait until a cheap one comes along on amazon. It's not truly amongst Strausses finest operas whatever the rapturous reviews on Amazon may say, but it's nice if you're a Strauss fan and looking for something new.
Quote from: bhodges on July 29, 2010, 12:10:25 PM
Just found a rave review for Christine Brewer's new Richard Strauss CD, here (http://outwestarts.blogspot.com/2010/07/is-this-recording-of-year.html) (with link to the CD at Arkiv).
--Bruce
I can only see one line saying that "it may only be July, but the answer may be Yes". Where's the rest of it?
It may be hard to see: click on the word "yes." (The blog post title is "Is This The Recording of the Year?")
--Bruce
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 29, 2010, 09:39:17 AM
Considering that I HATE opera, I could careless how well he wrote for it.
Ah, yes... but you are calling
me ignorant? Unbelievable.
Quote from: bhodges on July 29, 2010, 11:12:05 AM
That Fleming CD is spectacular; she, Bonney and Graham sound really glorious together. And another vote for the final scene of Capriccio, one of Strauss's most inspired creations, and that monologue from Rosenkavalier.
--Bruce
Glad someone else loves this CD as much as I do - it's just staggeringly beautiful, and so intelligently sung by Fleming - such subtle nuances and insight whilst never losing the a sense of rapturous cantilena and line. The word ravishing was invented for singing and music like this. It's perhaps surprising that she hasn't been asked to record these three roles in full (as well as Ariadne?), or that even live versions don't exist of these, but I guess that this is a reflection of the state of the recording industry. All three of her protrayals of these roles are available on DVD however.
The singing is first rate; but the conducting is sluggish and indulgent.
Mike
Quote from: knight on July 29, 2010, 03:41:37 PM
The singing is first rate; but the conducting is sluggish and indulgent.
Mike
Did someone say sluggish and indulgent? My kind of conducting 8) I'll have to order that CD (I love the Eschenbach/Fleming
Vier letzte Lieder).
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 29, 2010, 03:52:36 PM
Did someone say sluggish and indulgent? My kind of conducting 8) I'll have to order that CD (I love the Eschenbach/Fleming Vier letzte Lieder).
Sarge
You will not regret it.
Which bits in particular do you think are indulgent Mike? The Capriccio Final Scene is the best I've ever heard it. Quite aside from the singing, its so well paced, there's a real sense of symphonic architecture to it, and Strauss' wondrous scoring and orchestral touches are revealed in such detail and with such sensitivity. The way he pauses on that phrase just after the final words of the Major domo, just gets me every time - that sidewards glancing ironic smile that Strauss has magically (even miraculously) composed into the music at this point has never seemed warmer or more beautiful.
The Rosenkavalier Trio is very slow, but singers of this quality can sustain it I think. It's actually the portion of the CD I listen to least - which says something as to the beauty of the rest of it.
I think you got it....the Rosenkavalier trio is very slow. The singing is only half of it. The conducting has to ensure a pace that does not make the music disintigrate. I still have the disc; but was very disappointed that Eshenbach turns the music to mush.
I have Bohm Capriccio; again, I think the structure is taken care of, Eshenbach smooths the whole thing out. It becomes aural wallpaper.
But; if you like it, I am not interested in turning you off it, just of stating my own opinion.
Mike
Quote from: knight on July 29, 2010, 04:35:29 PM
I think you got it....the Rosenkavalier trio is very slow. The singing is only half of it. The conducting has to ensure a pace that does not make the music disintigrate. I still have the disc; but was very disappointed that Eshenbach turns the music to mush.
I have Bohm Capriccio; again, I think the structure is taken care of, Eshenbach smooths the whole thing out. It becomes aural wallpaper.
But; if you like it, I am not interested in turning you off it, just of stating my own opinion.
Mike
Yeah I can see that. I must hear the Bohm Capriccio again - I borrowed it from a library once and liked it very much, but didn't feel desperate enough to buy it when I still had the beloved Sawallisch recording.
What are people's opinions on Metamorphosen? By rights I should love it as much as the rest of the late works, but somehow, it seems like a lesser work to me - the harmony not distinctive, the textures not as imaginative, the melodic lines rather earthbound and almost routine compared to the soaring ecstacy of his soprano cantilenas, the inspiration certainly not lacking, but not of the same level as the Four Last Songs or Capriccio. And yet everyone raves about how heartbraking the piece is. It's lovely, but I don't yet love it. Maybe its the recording I have - Karajan with Berlin Phil... is this the problem?
re: metamorphosen
maybe it's just a matter of personal taste. though it certainly can't hurt to have different versions of metamorphosen... specifically to have at least one good interpretation of the chamber version.
Like this one, for example:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41MttuKdc2L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
R. Strauss
Metamorphosen,
Capriccio S6t
Piano Q4t (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LV6CKU?ie=UTF8&tag=goodmusicguide-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000LV6CKU)
I would guess so. I listened to that once and it wasn't to my taste: Karajan often cultivated a grandiose sfumato sound in Strauss & others. In this work - which of course is the diametrical opposite of "soaring ecstasy" - a kind of lucid, tormented (but earthbound, as you say) intensity is necessary, and the ear-opening experience for me personally was Gielen's recording with the Cincinnati orchestra on Vox (a superb double album including other works by Strauss, Lutoslawski and Berg). I prefer this to Klemperer or Barbirolli (my other recordings), must however confess to never having heard the famed Furtwängler version (in which I suspect that the counterpoint might get obscured by the recording technology).
I like the Karajan recording, I don't think that can be the sole reason.
However, I've made the experience that for people who dislike the whole Strauss, the Metamorphosen is the only work they accept. Maybe for you it's the other way around.
Quote from: rappy on August 02, 2010, 05:55:09 AM
I like the Karajan recording, I don't think that can be the sole reason.
However, I've made the experience that for people who dislike the whole Strauss, the Metamorphosen is the only work they accept. Maybe for you it's the other way around.
I'm an anti-anti-Straussian! :D
OK, thanks guys... I'll bear in mind those other recording suggestions.
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 29, 2010, 10:26:19 AM
As much as I like Karajan's (and Kempe's) performance of Alpine Symphony, my heart belongs to Jarvi's performance with the Royal Scottish National Orchestra. A riveting performance from start to finish.
In fact, I prefer Jarvi's Strauss recordings to those of Karajan, Kempe, Zinman, Previn, Haitink, Sinopoli, etc. There's something about Neeme Jarvi and the RSNO that felt so right.
MI
I have all the Strauss CDs you listed above (including Jarvi) but you are missing most important CD of all..............new
remastered Karajan Alpine!
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51X19z8VGsL._SL500_AA280_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B0017LYGNI/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=163856011&s=dmusic)
There is a Strauss thread in great recordings where this is discussed in more detail, but the Karajan Gold Alpine you show has been improve with this remaster......buy buy buy
Here is Alpine discussion from great recordings..........
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,2679.msg395405.html#msg395405 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,2679.msg395405.html#msg395405)
The Rosenkavalier Suite is just awful. Really bloody awful.
Quote from: DarkAngel on August 03, 2010, 05:37:55 AM
MI
I have all the Strauss CDs you listed above (including Jarvi) but you are missing most important CD of all..............new remastered Karajan Alpine!
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51X19z8VGsL._SL500_AA280_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B0017LYGNI/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=163856011&s=dmusic)
There is a Strauss thread in great recordings where this is discussed in more detail, but the Karajan Gold Alpine you show has been improve with this remaster......buy buy buy
That is the 2-CD set I own. :D Yes, it is a great recording.
Why is Strauss the most "decandent" Composer? I know that he shooould be, but is his music really that filthy? If it's only about the Opera subject matter, ok, I understand, but does the music itself ever exhibit that inner rot of booshwaah blah blah,...y'know what I mean, man? Does he music expel gasses? I thought Berg was more of that man in this camp?
Quote from: snyprrr on August 19, 2010, 07:47:30 AM
Why is Strauss the most "decandent" Composer? I know that he shooould be, but is his music really that filthy? If it's only about the Opera subject matter, ok, I understand, but does the music itself ever exhibit that inner rot of booshwaah blah blah,...y'know what I mean, man? Does he music expel gasses? I thought Berg was more of that man in this camp?
Yeah in the sense that he has no problem with being vulgar and cheap with the music he writes when it needs to be. For instance the music that Salome dances to - The Dance of the Seven Veils. By most available measures this is bad music - tacky and kitch and vulgar (but then what are we expecting for this scene in an opera of Salome done in 1905?) And then the final scene in which Salome is talking to the head, the soprano line soars in ecstatic cantilenas above the incredible orchestra - this is definitely "great" music here, but should we feel uncomfortable that music of such sumptuous and decadent beauty and extraordinary affekt should be set to such a gruesome scene - inviting and encouraging us to revel in the blood bath? This frisson (surely a vulgarity, but one that many of us gladly accept) is surely part of what gives this opera such lasting appeal, and why it still fascinates and shocks us a century after it was written. Also that no moral is drawn at the end - she's just killed, there's no judgement and we're left open mouthed.
Hmm, rereading your post - what do you mean by decadent? There are other Sturn of the century composer's who do the same sort of bathing in that area between sentiment and sentimentality - Korngold, Schreker, Zemlinsky etc. These are possibly more decadent in other ways...
Quote from: Guido on August 19, 2010, 08:35:28 AM
Yeah in the sense that he has no problem with being vulgar and cheap with the music he writes when it needs to be. For instance the music that Salome dances to - The Dance of the Seven Veils. By most available measures this is bad music - tacky and kitch and vulgar (but then what are we expecting for this scene in an opera of Salome done in 1905?) And then the final scene in which Salome is talking to the head, the soprano line soars in ecstatic cantilenas above the incredible orchestra - this is definitely "great" music here, but should we feel uncomfortable that music of such sumptuous and decadent beauty and extraordinary affekt should be set to such a gruesome scene - inviting and encouraging us to revel in the blood bath? This frisson (surely a vulgarity, but one that many of us gladly accept) is surely part of what gives this opera such lasting appeal, and why it still fascinates and shocks us a century after it was written. Also that no moral is drawn at the end - she's just killed, there's no judgement and we're left open mouthed.
Hmm, rereading your post - what do you mean by decadent? There are other Sturn of the century composer's who do the same sort of bathing in that area between sentiment and sentimentality - Korngold, Schreker, Zemlinsky etc. These are possibly more decadent in other ways...
Yea, that was kind of what I was aiming at. By all means, if you know any particular pieces by anyone where you can hear the gases being expelled from the cadaver, "lurching towards the cemetery", as they say,.... the "impressionism of decay", perhaps.
I think I'm looking for pre-Berlin/1920s examples, more like 1902-6-8-9, the first flowering of the Ultra Last Romanticism. Perhaps I'll listen to Schoenberg's
Pelleas again. Perhaps Late Scriabin is what I'm thinking of,... that "classical gone syphilitic" sound,...
The French, also, became very interested in Poe and such around the same time. Weren't Debussy and Ravel into some creepy stuff, and wot not?
I could go on! ;D
The musical equivalent of
A Death in Venice. Oh, that's right,...Mahler 5, haha!
I know what you mean, but don't know all that much of the music. Korngold's two biggest operas - Die Todte Stadt and even more overblown, Die Wunder der Heliane, Die Gezeichniten by Schreker another opera. These are at the glitzy kitsch end, but it's a reflection of the same thing that Schoenberg was doing in Pelleas - it's just that as the modernists got harsher and less sensual, so the reactionaries who started out as roughly the same, got more sensual, whipping themselves up into ever grander and more frenziedly sensuous and erotic and sickly sound worlds. So they're the ones that cover the cadever in perfumes and scented oils. It's still a cadaver though (albeit a very beautiful one).
I like this cadaver metaphor! Berg is certainly in line with that in some of his pieces.
Strauss is sort of related to this phenomenon but only as far as Die Frau Ohne Schatten - and after that he was always searching for a lighter, more classical (after Mozart) sound (as he said "trying to strip off the Wagnerian armour") which after stumbling accross it in the prologue to Ariadne auf Naxos (a masterpiece), he struggled to regain it in a truly successful way until Capriccio, his final opera, though Intermezzo, Arabella and Die Schweigsame Frau certainly point the way forward. People have said that Der Rosenkavalier is Strauss pre-empting of neoclassicsm but I think they're deluding themselves.
There is of course Die Agyptische Helena which is "Strauss' 1920s megakitsch" as one commentator called it! Similar to the Schreker/Korngold school.
Had never heard the Schoenberg Pelleas before - just looked it up - fucking fantastic! Huge pustules of gas convalescing and erupting from the putrescent and beautiful surface of the pool.
Quote from: Guido on August 20, 2010, 04:25:00 AM
I know what you mean, but don't know all that much of the music. Korngold's two biggest operas - Die Todte Stadt and even more overblown, Die Wunder der Heliane, Die Gezeichniten by Schreker another opera. These are at the glitzy kitsch end, but it's a reflection of the same thing that Schoenberg was doing in Pelleas - it's just that as the modernists got harsher and less sensual, so the reactionaries who started out as roughly the same, got more sensual, whipping themselves up into ever grander and more frenziedly sensuous and erotic and sickly sound worlds. So they're the ones that cover the cadever in perfumes and scented oils. It's still a cadaver though (albeit a very beautiful one).
I like this cadaver metaphor! Berg is certainly in line with that in some of his pieces.
Strauss is sort of related to this phenomenon but only as far as Die Frau Ohne Schatten - and after that he was always searching for a lighter, more classical (after Mozart) sound (as he said "trying to strip off the Wagnerian armour") which after stumbling accross it in the prologue to Ariadne auf Naxos (a masterpiece), he struggled to regain it in a truly successful way until Capriccio, his final opera, though Intermezzo, Arabella and Die Schweigsame Frau certainly point the way forward. People have said that Der Rosenkavalier is Strauss pre-empting of neoclassicsm but I think they're deluding themselves.
There is of course Die Agyptische Helena which is "Strauss' 1920s megakitsch" as one commentator called it! Similar to the Schreker/Korngold school.
Had never heard the Schoenberg Pelleas before - just looked it up - fucking fantastic! Huge pustules of gas convalescing and erupting from the putrescent and beautiful surface of the pool.
Yes Yes Yes!!! :-*
Quote from: Guido on August 20, 2010, 04:25:00 AM
I know what you mean, but don't know all that much of the music. Korngold's two biggest operas - Die Todte Stadt and even more overblown, Die Wunder der Heliane, Die Gezeichniten by Schreker another opera. These are at the glitzy kitsch end, but it's a reflection of the same thing that Schoenberg was doing in Pelleas - it's just that as the modernists got harsher and less sensual, so the reactionaries who started out as roughly the same, got more sensual, whipping themselves up into ever grander and more frenziedly sensuous and erotic and sickly sound worlds. So they're the ones that cover the cadever in perfumes and scented oils. It's still a cadaver though (albeit a very beautiful one).
I like this cadaver metaphor! Berg is certainly in line with that in some of his pieces.
Strauss is sort of related to this phenomenon but only as far as Die Frau Ohne Schatten - and after that he was always searching for a lighter, more classical (after Mozart) sound (as he said "trying to strip off the Wagnerian armour") which after stumbling accross it in the prologue to Ariadne auf Naxos (a masterpiece), he struggled to regain it in a truly successful way until Capriccio, his final opera, though Intermezzo, Arabella and Die Schweigsame Frau certainly point the way forward. People have said that Der Rosenkavalier is Strauss pre-empting of neoclassicsm but I think they're deluding themselves.
There is of course Die Agyptische Helena which is "Strauss' 1920s megakitsch" as one commentator called it! Similar to the Schreker/Korngold school.
Had never heard the Schoenberg Pelleas before - just looked it up - fucking fantastic! Huge pustules of gas convalescing and erupting from the putrescent and beautiful surface of the pool.
The Second Viennese School as a manifestation of the cult of Cthulhu--that's actually a promising piece of fanfic, I think.
Quote from: kishnevi on August 20, 2010, 02:53:21 PM
The Second Viennese School as a manifestation of the cult of Cthulhu--that's actually a promising piece of fanfic, I think.
Yea, that's what I'm getting at, the Lovecraftian aspect. The deep degeneracy at the,... the whole
fin de siecle thing,...Baudelaire's putrefying corpses and wounded swans flapping their useless wings in the dust: the inbred aristocracy choking on it's own sumptuousness.
House Rot. Stinking Seething... EAPoe... the kind of horror that hasn't translated particularly well to the screen, the horror of the mind,...Froidian coke fantasies...
Then of course, with Mahler/Schoenberg VS. Schreker/Strauss, etc,...you have the Jewish "degeneracy" thing,...the need to make ugly,...and, I'm not planning a FlameOut by saying this (I'm speaking as they thought at the time ::)), I think as far as the German contingent of this faction goes (the others being the French (say, Caplet, Schmitt), the English (Foulds), and so forth), I do think the Blavatsky influence, the Dracula/Eastern European/Dybbukian, blah blah,... no? Golem...Ripper...
Anyhow, was Strauss a Satanist? ;D...the devil's maestro, and all that, haha!
Here is what you want Duparc 'Extase'. Mind you, Kraus could have made more of a meal of it. Too restrained, even the pianist did not seem to grasp that the piano expresses the 'climax'. Not that this has much to do with Richard Strauss.
Mike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k2Vnqa58GE&feature=related
Sur un lys pâle mon coeur dort
D'un sommeil doux comme la mort
Mort exquise, mort parfumée
Du souffle de la bien aimée ...
Sur ton sein pâle mon coeur dort
D'un sommeil doux comme la mort.
On your pale breast my heart is sleeping
A sleep as sweet as death
Exquisite death, death perfumed
By the breath of the beloved
On your pale breast my heart is sleeping
A sleep as sweet as death
Seems like we need a 'Gnomic' thread here. Perhaps that should be its first post.
Mike
One of the enduring beauties of music, even familiar music, is its capacity to surprise.
For you to hear new things in a song, an aria, an orchestral work that you thought you knew well...
Great Strauss Scenes on Viva La Voce
http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=2319
(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/non-muze/full/492534)
(http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=2319)
I have bought this CD too... which track are you referring to?
Quote from: jlaurson on September 27, 2010, 12:21:24 AM
One of the enduring beauties of music, even familiar music, is its capacity to surprise.
For you to hear new things in a song, an aria, an orchestral work that you thought you knew well...
Great Strauss Scenes on Viva La Voce
http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=2319
(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/non-muze/full/492534)
(http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=2319)
Quote from: Guido on September 27, 2010, 12:54:57 AM
I have bought this CD too... which track are you referring to?
I don't understand your question unless you have not read the article linked to, of which that line is the first sentence. Every track, is the answer, in any case.
Ah sorry! Thought they were your words... didn't realise the link was a link!
Quote from: Guido on September 27, 2010, 08:07:18 AM
Ah sorry! Thought they were your words... didn't realise the link was a link!
They
are my words.
And there is a link. ;)
OK, I've tried many times to give it a chance, but I still think Aus Italien is a seroiusly inferior work. It's like Strauss is trying to be Respighi, but not quite succeeding at it. Respighi is still the better Respighi.
Asbolutely. It's hardly considered to be one of his best is it.
Strauss' Songs for Bass and orchestra are absolutely incredible. I actually prefer them to the ones for women's voices! Yes I know that sounds mad (and I except the Vier Letzte from that) but it's true. In the operas, the music for the girls is always better than for the boys, but here, in his op.51 and 44 we get things that we never see in the operas from the men - pure pathos and power and gravitas. So wonderful.
The recording by Andreas Schmidt is sublime and contains 3 of the 4 that make up op.44, and op.51 (and two lesser songs op.33). Der Einsame is simply ravishing, and Notturno has a unique atmosphere and profound strangeness that shows an aspect of Strauss that is rarely put on display - a sort of silvery, diamond edged hardness, a craggy, harsh, moonlit ladscape in sound. Das Thal I'm slightly less enamoured with, but is still impressive and of high quality. The fourth is recorded on a complete Strauss Orchestral Songs set, but I have all the others, and its very expensive just for one song! One day, one day. Andreas Schmidt was already known to me from his truly wondrous recording of Schoeck's Elegie which is desert island listening for me - one of the greatest vocal masterpieces for male voice.
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/48/f4/366feb6709a0152b9a9e3110.L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
That A. Schmidt CD is unfortunately not available in Europe, as far as I can see, pity, because like you I love the Elegie, Guido. A remarkable bass song by Strauss you hardly ever see recorded is "Im Spätboot" (Op.56/3) - I only have it on LP with Alsen/Raucheisen. There seems to be a recording by Hotter/Klien - must get!
You can get it in Europe, thaugh it's pricey:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-orch-Berio-R-Strauss/dp/B000003F9F/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1296066390&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.fr/Orchestral-Lieder-Mahler/dp/B000003F9F/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1296066495&sr=1-1
Does anyone knows the difference between his Le Bourgeois gentilhomme and Der Bürger als Edelmann?
Quote from: Lethe on January 27, 2011, 09:49:52 AM
Does anyone knows the difference between his Le Bourgeois gentilhomme and Der Bürger als Edelmann?
I think the original idea was to have an opera performed within a play, which flopped, then he extracted the opera as an independent piece. I don't recall which was witch.
Quote from: Lethe on January 27, 2011, 09:49:52 AM
Does anyone knows the difference between his Le Bourgeois gentilhomme and Der Bürger als Edelmann?
Same thing, German title. Since the reference is to an original play by Molière (and the inspiration and excuse for the neoclassical approach is the original incidental music by Lully for Molière's play), the title is usually given in French, though sometimes German editions refer to it by the German translation.
Oh, thanks. The movement names looked familiar, I guess BBC Legends were trying to be esoteric :)
Not all of the songs we now hear in orchestral guise were orchestrated by him. Some he authorised to be filled out and I think some were orchestrated after his death. But I have never read anyone suggesting they can tell by listening which fall into the latter two categories.
There is at least one version of the Four Last Songs to which Malvern has been appended, but I really don't think it will catch on. The traditional four in the traditional sequence have such a cohesive feel of completeness. It is however, a beautiful and delicate swansong.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hserED_9paA&feature=related
The song is lovely and seems to look back at both Zerbinetta's aria from Ariadne and to Alban Berg - Die Nachtigall.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTgy_oOvsPE&NR=1
Mike
Vocal CD Pick of the Week: Diana Damrau's Strauss Sublime
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51vKDVwfsyL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=3057
(http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=3057)
I really don't like Damrau here - the phrasing is so lumpy, a tiny vibratoless sound bulges suddenly to a full dramatic wobble. Alternatively girlishly breathless and then rather matronly. The vibrato is more under control than I've heard it recently actually, but it's not very beautiful to my ears.
Guido and I have a very similar puzzlement over what makes this singer so successful. To my ears she is pretty much a non starter in the historixcal line of Great Strauss/Mozart singers.
I wonder if it is really Thielemanns contributions that weighted the balance with Jens?
Mike
Quote from: knight66 on May 30, 2011, 03:18:11 AM
Guido and I have a very similar puzzlement over what makes this singer so successful. To my ears she is pretty much a non starter in the historixcal line of Great Strauss/Mozart singers.
I wonder if it is really Thielemanns contributions that weighted the balance with Jens?
Mike
No. I really think Diana Damrau is the greatest Strauss soubrette / coloratura soprano there is or ever was (in the time of recordings that allow judgement). I love Thielemann's Strauss contributions, of course, but I've heard Damrau live enough to know that the two factors are not the same. She can make herself heard in any acoustic, too... even at piano and pianissimo... (for example at the performance of the songs on this disc in concert in the difficult Philharmonic Hall in Munich) so the 'tiny sound' might be an impression gathered from the CD, but does not jibe with reality.
Guido's comments baffle me completely, because I know that one need not understand the text she is singing (communicating, really; because she completely nails every song or aria) to come to the same conclusion as I. I can't think of any critic-acquaintances, from voice-fetishists to those who focus primarily on the theatrical aspect, who disagree wither. Of course it's ultimately a personal choice, but her quality as a singer is for all practical purposes out of the question. Ever even heard, much less experienced, her Zerbinetta? Strauss composed that role for her.
I have heard her on disc and DVD. Sorry, I don't buy into what cannot be denied; unless she is somehow different live and the recorded sound is not representative. Having read Guido for some time and learned to trust his ears, I am not about to take on board that he or, for that matter I, can't tell a good voice from a great one.
I don't think this is merely a matter of taste. I find imperfections in the voice, I intensely dislike the vibrato. It is not always in evidence, but I don't see how it helps Mozart, and the disc of her Mozart arias is rattling with it. It is partially in evidence in the Strauss I have heard, she is fine when it is under wraps, but Sophie is traditionally a role for a specific kind of voice. That does not include one with an edge to it or noticeable vibrato, as against vibrancy.
Mike
Quote from: jlaurson on May 30, 2011, 07:02:56 AM
No. I really think Diana Damrau is the greatest Strauss soubrette / coloratura soprano there is or ever was (in the time of recordings that allow judgement). I love Thielemann's Strauss contributions, of course, but I've heard Damrau live enough to know that the two factors are not the same. She can make herself heard in any acoustic, too... even at piano and pianissimo... (for example at the performance of the songs on this disc in concert in the difficult Philharmonic Hall in Munich) so the 'tiny sound' might be an impression gathered from the CD, but does not jibe with reality.
Guido's comments baffle me completely, because I know that one need not understand the text she is singing (communicating, really; because she completely nails every song or aria) to come to the same conclusion as I. I can't think of any critic-acquaintances, from voice-fetishists to those who focus primarily on the theatrical aspect, who disagree wither. Of course it's ultimately a personal choice, but her quality as a singer is for all practical purposes out of the question. Ever even heard, much less experienced, her Zerbinetta? Strauss composed that role for her.
I can't agree that she's the best ever Strauss Soubrette/coloratura - just examples that immediately spring to mind: of recent people in this category I much prefer Barbara Bonney as Sophie (a far more beautiful voice in my opinion, both technically and in the basic timbre) and Kathleen Battle as Zerbinetta (both are gorgeous Zdenkas too), and of the previous generation there're just so many fine ones - I adore Rita Streich as Zerbinetta on the famous Karajan/Schwarzkopf Ariadne for instance, and feel she completely outclasses Damrau vocally.
I don't actively dislike Damrau, but I certainly don't think she's one of "the greats". She's a good actress, I agree with that at least. The "tiny" sound is more in the colour of the voice - those toothpastey bulges from a "white" vibratoless note, to full matronly vibrato as I said - not at all attractive to my ears. The Zerbinetta aria on her COLORaturaS album is so exaggerated both musically and in her rendering of the text, that it sort of ruins it for me. Just after the start of second section which starts "So war es mit Pagliazzo", the lines
Doch niemals Launen,
Immer ein Müssen!
Immer ein neues
Beklommenes Staunen.
Dass ein Herz so gar sich selber,
Gar sich selber nicht versteht!
are a classic example of this unpleasant use of vocal colour. I speak German, so that's not at all the issue!
You can't control what sounds attractive to you in the same way that you can't help who you find attractive! But these are my thoughts for what its worth and I'm glad that Mike's ideas chime with my own here.
The Fleming/Bonney/Eschenbach Met Broadcast from 2001 is coming to siriusxm radio 4 times this week. Unfortunately I'm in the UK and so can't access this service, but would anyone in the US be willing to sign up to the free trial and record it in high quality? I've been wanting to hear this for years. They're also doing the Conlon/ Fleming, Hadley, Ramey, McVeigh Susannah which I'd also love to hear.
http://www.siriusxm.com/servlet/Satellite?c=SXM_Channel_C&childpagename=SXM%2FSXM_Channel_C%2FChannelProgramList&cid=1282009842027&pagename=SXM%2FWrapper
OK, so there has been ample debate around here about the lousiness of the original digital sound of the Karajan GOLD Alpensinfonie. THis new reissue:
[asin]B005C8VQT4[/asin]
promises a new digital remastering of all the contents. I guess this won't be out for another three weeks, but I'll be curious to hear what people think of the sound.
Quote from: MishaK on September 24, 2011, 01:20:56 PM
OK, so there has been ample debate around here about the lousiness of the original digital sound of the Karajan GOLD Alpensinfonie. THis new reissue:
[asin]B005C8VQT4[/asin]
promises a new digital remastering of all the contents. I guess this won't be out for another three weeks, but I'll be curious to hear what people think of the sound.
!!!!!!!!!?!!!!!!!!
Thanks, I wasn't expecting that from DG.
At all. May I ask if they're doing it for any other Karajan recordings?
BTW, re: Diana Damrau, I'm with
Jens. I've only ever heard her once, live, singing more than Strauss. And the other stuff (a wide-ranging medley of mostly French songs) was by and large excellent. But the Strauss was absolutely fantastic.
Or: what I want out of Strauss, she delivered in spades.)
Quote from: Renfield on September 24, 2011, 02:43:31 PM
May I ask if they're doing it for any other Karajan recordings?
You may ask, but I may not answer. ;) Since I know nothing of DG's plans.
Quote from: MishaK on September 24, 2011, 02:57:12 PM
You may ask, but I may not answer. ;) Since I know nothing of DG's plans.
Fair enough! :D I just hope for the Bruckner cycle.
BTW, do you have a link for the above being newly-remastered? The DG site is uninformative as usual (re: the remastering, at least).
Quote from: Renfield on September 24, 2011, 03:01:08 PM
Fair enough! :D I just hope for the Bruckner cycle.
BTW, do you have a link for the above being newly-remastered? The DG site is uninformative as usual (re: the remastering, at least).
Given that they are reissuing Barenboim's 70s/80s CSO cycle as part of the same series, I doubt they will do Karajan as well at the same time. The pic above takes you to the amazon listing, where it says that it's newly remastered.
Quote from: MishaK on September 24, 2011, 03:34:05 PM
Given that they are reissuing Barenboim's 70s/80s CSO cycle as part of the same series, I doubt they will do Karajan as well at the same time. The pic above takes you to the amazon listing, where it says that it's newly remastered.
Aha! Well, it says "The complete remastered digital recordings in a single box for the first time!" Which is ambiguous. It could be 'the complete
remastered digital recordings (i.e. Karajan Gold)', as well as 'the complete digital recordings, remastered'.
So I guess we'll have to wait and see.
As for the Brucner, yeah, I think so too. But you never know, right?
Right? :'( (;D)
ArkivMusic has a more detailed listing of recording dates, so it would appear that at least ASZ, DJ, TElS, T&V, 4LL, eHL, and AlpS are digital. The others don't have dates, but it seems they are also not the older versions.
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=587953
First post in this thread :)
I am a massive R.Strauss fan, in fact he is only beaten by Mahler in being my favourite composer! Favourite works being Eine Alpensinfonie, Ein Heldenleben, Tod und Verklarung, Don Juan, Der Rosenkavalier Suite, Dance of the Seven Veils from Salome, Four Last Songs, Metamorphosen, Oboe Concerto, Till Eulenspigel and Also Sprach Zarathustra. The first three in particular I love so much! So as you can guess, I am a major fan of the tone poems, still really yet to explore the operas in full, although I do love the suites. I imagine that I shall be listening to either Der Rosenkavalier or Salome in full rather soon!
In terms of my favourite Straussian conductor, well... I guess it would probably have to be Karajan! Other favourite Strauss recordings include Sir Simon Rattle's recording of Ein Heldenleben with the Berliners, and also Antoni Wit's recording of Eine Alpensinfonie. Am I not alone in thinking Antoni Wit should recording more Strauss?
[asin]B000FGGKHQ[/asin]
Also, what do you all think of Andris Nelsons' new recordings of Strauss? I am going to be purchasing them soon... :)
We'll hear the BSO play Ein Heldenleben this coming Saturday.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 25, 2011, 06:05:47 AM
We'll hear the BSO play Ein Heldenleben this coming Saturday.
Lucky you! Which conductor Karl?
This Friday, I'll be seeing the LPO in Strauss' Don Juan (and Rach Symphonic Dances. :) )
Quote from: madaboutmahler on October 25, 2011, 06:11:03 AM
Lucky you! Which conductor Karl?
Rafael Frühbeck de Burgos, a guest conductor whom (in fairness) we've heard conduct some dreadfully mannered performances. But with Gidon Kremer as the guest soloist in the Schumann Vn Cto, we couldn't possibly give this a miss.
The Rakhmaninov Symphonic Dances are always a treat! Good on you!
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 25, 2011, 06:14:21 AM
Rafael Frühbeck de Burgos, a guest conductor whom (in fairness) we've heard conduct some dreadfully mannered performances. But with Gidon Kremer as the guest soloist in the Schumann Vn Cto, we couldn't possibly give this a miss.
The Rakhmaninov Symphonic Dances are always a treat! Good on you!
Ah, I am not his 'greatest fan' either ;) But Ein Heldenleben is always amazing to see live, and the BSO will be excellent as normal I am sure!
Enjoy! :)
They certainly are! :)
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 25, 2011, 06:05:47 AM
We'll hear the BSO play Ein Heldenleben this coming Saturday.
I know you are not a huge R. Strauss fan,
Karl. However, this piece, played live several years ago by the WSO, is what turned me into an R. Strauss fan. I hope you'll enjoy it
Karl!
Thanks, Ray!
'Also, what do you all think of Andris Nelsons' new recordings of Strauss? I am going to be purchasing them soon...'
I have both of Nelsons' Strauss recordings on Orfeo; they are superb. I was in Bremen a couple of months ago and Nelsons was conducting the Amsterdam Concertgebow. It was my first encounter of him and I thought he was superb. Luckily, he is the chief conductor in Birmingham, England which is within easy reach for me. As soon as I got home I ordered tickets for impending Bruckner and Wagner concerts and got hold of Nelson's Alpine Sym, Heldenleben and his Stravinsky disc. Nelsons generates a lot of excitement, but does not neglect the full range of moods in the pieces. Recorded live, the sound is terrific and the sheer enjoyment of his music making is infectious.
Mike
Quote from: knight66 on October 25, 2011, 10:24:59 PM
'Also, what do you all think of Andris Nelsons' new recordings of Strauss? I am going to be purchasing them soon...'
I have both of Nelsons' Strauss recordings on Orfeo; they are superb. I was in Bremen a couple of months ago and Nelsons was conducting the Amsterdam Concertgebow. It was my first encounter of him and I thought he was superb. Luckily, he is the chief conductor in Birmingham, England which is within easy reach for me. As soon as I got home I ordered tickets for impending Bruckner and Wagner concerts and got hold of Nelson's Alpine Sym, Heldenleben and his Stravinsky disc. Nelsons generates a lot of excitement, but does not neglect the full range of moods in the pieces. Recorded live, the sound is terrific and the sheer enjoyment of his music making is infectious.
Mike
Thanks for the feedback Mike! Wow, that must have been a great concert. What I have seen/heard of Nelsons so far certainly has been superb. I watched the broadcast of his BBC Prom this previous summer, when he conducted Strauss Don Juan/Salome's Dance etc, which was excellent. Also, I saw quite a lot of a concert he did with the Berlin Phil, through the Digital Concert Hall, when he was conducting Strauss' Der Rosenkavalier Suite. It was one of the most beautiful performances of that piece I have ever heard!
Yes, certainly is great that he is chief conductor of the CBSO! I shall be seeing them in Elgar's Dream of Gerontius, in London next year. Very excited about that! :)
I agree, he certainly is an exciting conductor and I am looking forward to whatever he does in the future!
Listened to Salome for the first time today. Absolutely amazed by it, what a masterpiece! I was left speechless by the end of it, being so much in awe of the beauty, sheer eroticism and power I had just heard. Wow.... :o :)
[asin]B000E6EH04[/asin]
This is the first Strauss opera I have ever heard, so where do I go next? Elektra perhaps? Der Rosenkavalier sounds absolutely beautiful (from the suite) as well.
Quote from: madaboutmahler on February 18, 2012, 11:16:30 AM
Listened to Salome for the first time today. Absolutely amazed by it, what a masterpiece! I was left speechless by the end of it, being so much in awe of the beauty, sheer eroticism and power I had just heard. Wow.... :o :)
[asin]B000E6EH04[/asin]
This is the first Strauss opera I have ever heard, so where do I go next? Elektra perhaps? Der Rosenkavalier sounds absolutely beautiful (from the suite) as well.
Elektra is in some ways a natural next step. Since you liked this one with Solti/Nilsson, their Elektra makes no less a good recommendation. Rosenkavalier is a wonderful opera - since the music is somewhat familiar, this makes sense too. I'd go for either Karajan or Haitink. After that, I'd go for Arabella or Ariadne. In time, you'll need them all! :)
Die Frau ohne Schatten is one of his most pure creations - if you can endure Parsifal, it should be no problem.
Quote from: Lethevich on February 18, 2012, 11:29:19 AM
Die Frau ohne Schatten is one of his most pure creations - if you can endure Parsifal, it should be no problem.
I liked that expression, it made me laugh. ;D
Quote from: mc ukrneal on February 18, 2012, 11:26:50 AM
Elektra is in some ways a natural next step. Since you liked this one with Solti/Nilsson, their Elektra makes no less a good recommendation. Rosenkavalier is a wonderful opera - since the music is somewhat familiar, this makes sense too. I'd go for either Karajan or Haitink. After that, I'd go for Arabella or Ariadne. In time, you'll need them all! :)
Thanks Neal. I'll probably go for Elektra next then, with the Solti recommendation. Will purchase it soon! :) Yes, will definitely need them all in time! By my love of Salome, I doubt it will be long until I feel the urge to purchase more! ;)
Quote from: Lethevich on February 18, 2012, 11:29:19 AM
Die Frau ohne Schatten is one of his most pure creations - if you can endure Parsifal, it should be no problem.
I haven't heard Parsifal yet... but Die Frau ohne Schatten does certainly look exciting, I was looking at the orchestration the other day, on wikipedia... Wow... :D
Will go for Elektra next. Then Der Rosenkavalier.
Quote from: Lethevich on February 18, 2012, 11:29:19 AM
Die Frau ohne Schatten is one of his most pure creations - if you can endure Parsifal, it should be no problem.
Seconded. Don't neglect this one.
Quote from: madaboutmahler on February 18, 2012, 11:39:38 AM
Thanks Neal. I'll probably go for Elektra next then, with the Solti recommendation. Will purchase it soon! :) Yes, will definitely need them all in time! By my love of Salome, I doubt it will be long until I feel the urge to purchase more! ;)
I haven't heard Parsifal yet... but Die Frau ohne Schatten does certainly look exciting, I was looking at the orchestration the other day, on wikipedia... Wow... :D
Will go for Elektra next. Then Der Rosenkavalier.
Welcome in paradise!
Of course. I advice you to be as close to natural chronology as possible. The indispensable works are Salome, Elektra, Der Rosenkavalier, Ariadne auf Naxos, Die frau ohne Schatten and I think you can't go better than listen it in this very sequence. Then there is Die aegyptische Helena you can omitted in now or not. It is rather strange - melodramatic and colourful but probably can't offer any deeper emotion.
Arabella is next indispensable.
Then again strange experiment Intermezzo. Very interesting in some sense but rather for devotees. (Nevertheless I find both Helena and Intermezzo more interesting than Eine Alpensinfonie).
Die schweigsame Frau is more intersting than Helena and Intermezzo. It is work of jewellery but you cant find in it emotion of those indispensables.
Friedenstag is the less interesting of all his operas and you can omit it and listen as last.
Than Daphne again absolute masterpiece. Die liebe der Danae is also very very good. And Capriccio again reaching the absolute.
So for me you must listen to Elektra, Der Rosenkavalier, Ariadne auf Naxos, Die Frau ohne Schatten, Arabella, Daphne and Capriccio. and you may add to them Die liebe der Danae, Die schweigsame Frau, Intermezzo and Die aegyptische Helene (this is sequence of descending importance). Der Feuersnot, Guntram and Friedenstag are absolutely for later.
Another important aspect is literary preparation. Hugo von Hoffmanstahl was probably most accomplished writer who ever wrote for opera. And the theme is one of the greatest themes in history of European culture. I wholeheartedly recommend you to read The Oresteia of Aeschylus, Electra of Sophocles and Electra of Euripides before listening.
Here's another of my favourite composers....
Being a huge Karajan's fan, I was bound to become keen on Strauss' works, which were often recorded by the austrian conductor. ;D
Though, I absolutely adore R. Strauss' music, it is so thrilling and impressive, very lyrical and passionate; it is full of beauty, deep intensity and expressive power, and it often shows great virtuosity that involves the whole orchestra, creating incredibly haunting, touching movements and orchestral brilliance. Strauss' music displays a various style which often changes deeply from a composition to another one, that I appreciate anyway.
My favourite works are the tone poems, Oboe and Horn Concertos, and Vier letzte Lieder; about the operas, Salome, Elektra, Der Rosenkavalier and Die Frau ohne Schatten are surely wonderful.
Quote from: mszczuj on February 18, 2012, 01:27:59 PM
Welcome in paradise!
Of course. I advice you to be as close to natural chronology as possible. The indispensable works are Salome, Elektra, Der Rosenkavalier, Ariadne auf Naxos, Die frau ohne Schatten and I think you can't go better than listen it in this very sequence. Then there is Die aegyptische Helena you can omitted in now or not. It is rather strange - melodramatic and colourful but probably can't offer any deeper emotion.
Arabella is next indispensable.
Then again strange experiment Intermezzo. Very interesting in some sense but rather for devotees. (Nevertheless I find both Helena and Intermezzo more interesting than Eine Alpensinfonie).
Die schweigsame Frau is more intersting than Helena and Intermezzo. It is work of jewellery but you cant find in it emotion of those indispensables.
Friedenstag is the less interesting of all his operas and you can omit it and listen as last.
Than Daphne again absolute masterpiece. Die liebe der Danae is also very very good. And Capriccio again reaching the absolute.
So for me you must listen to Elektra, Der Rosenkavalier, Ariadne auf Naxos, Die Frau ohne Schatten, Arabella, Daphne and Capriccio. and you may add to them Die liebe der Danae, Die schweigsame Frau, Intermezzo and Die aegyptische Helene (this is sequence of descending importance). Der Feuersnot, Guntram and Friedenstag are absolutely for later.
Another important aspect is literary preparation. Hugo von Hoffmanstahl was probably most accomplished writer who ever wrote for opera. And the theme is one of the greatest themes in history of European culture. I wholeheartedly recommend you to read The Oresteia of Aeschylus, Electra of Sophocles and Electra of Euripides before listening.
Thank you for your interesting feedback! Sounds like a good order of operas to me, so next it shall be Elektra! Looking forward to it. Fascinating suggestion to read Hoffmanstahl's literature, I'd certainly be interested to! Thank you once again!
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on February 18, 2012, 01:45:01 PM
Here's another of my favourite composer....
Being a huge Karajan's fan, I was bound to become keen on Strauss' works, which were often recorded by the austrian conductor. ;D
Though, I absolutely adore R. Strauss' music, it is so thrilling and impressive, very lyrical and passionate; it is full of beauty, deep intensity and expressive power, and it often shows great virtuosity that involves the whole orchestra, creating incredibly haunting, touching movements and orchestral brilliance. Strauss' music displays a various style which often changes deeply from a composition to another one, that I appreciate anyway.
My favourite works are the tone poems, Oboe and Horn Concertos, and Vier letzte Lieder; about the operas, Salome, Elektra, Der Rosenkavalier and Die Frau ohne Schatten are surely wonderful.
Beautiful description, Ilaria! :)
Quote from: madaboutmahler on February 18, 2012, 02:42:17 PM
Beautiful description, Ilaria! :)
Thank you :) As you mention Strauss'operas, they are playing
Die Frau ohne Schatten next March at
Teatro alla Scala, I'm looking forward to seeing it!
I want to put forward a contrary view on the librettist. He was clever, but also something of a bore. He was over wordy and he and Strauss had disagreements over the tone of some of the work. I recall letters from Strauss suggesting that various elements of the libretti were too high flown. I think they worked best in Elektra, which is quite tight. In Rosenkavalier there is a tendency to verbosity and it is often performed with cuts.
A while ago I tried to establish whether any of Hofmannsthal's plays were ever performed in modern times. I drew a blank. He was much admired, but styles change. Perhaps this is a little like George Bernard Shaw, much admired in his time, his very wordy plays are now not much performed, though often referred to.
I echo the urging to go to the ancient source material.
Mike
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on February 18, 2012, 03:01:06 PM
Thank you :) As you mention Strauss'operas, they are playing Die Frau ohne Schatten next March at Teatro alla Scala, I'm looking forward to seeing it!
That's great, Ilaria! I hope you enjoy it! As you know, I do not know the piece, but by looking at the orchestration alone I can tell it must be a pretty exciting piece to see! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Frau_ohne_Schatten#Instrumentation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Frau_ohne_Schatten#Instrumentation)
Interesting points, Mike. I have not heard any of his libretti yet so cannot point out a opinion on the matter, but still found the post interesting. :)
Quote from: madaboutmahler on February 19, 2012, 04:54:30 AM
That's great, Ilaria! I hope you enjoy it! As you know, I do not know the piece, but by looking at the orchestration alone I can tell it must be a pretty exciting piece to see! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Frau_ohne_Schatten#Instrumentation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Frau_ohne_Schatten#Instrumentation)
Very kind, thank you Daniel! Yes,
Die Fraus ohne Schatten is a beautiful piece and it's certainly worth seeing (but also only listening); you should have a listen to it in future as you seem to be so enthusiastic about
Salome. ;)
Haha, Strauss' orchestration is always amazing......it only lacks the hammer and the cow bells. ;D
Quote from: knight66 on February 18, 2012, 03:13:03 PM
I want to put forward a contrary view on the librettist. He was clever, but also something of a bore. He was over wordy and he and Strauss had disagreements over the tone of some of the work. I recall letters from Strauss suggesting that various elements of the libretti were too high flown. I think they worked best in Elektra, which is quite tight. In Rosenkavalier there is a tendency to verbosity and it is often performed with cuts.
A while ago I tried to establish whether any of Hofmannsthal's plays were ever performed in modern times. I drew a blank. He was much admired, but styles change.
But you know I still remember the time when Hugo von Hofmannstahl was for me much more important than Richard Strauss.
I didn't write he was best librettist, or even he was best playwright who wrote for opera. But his literary culture and understanding of word was without any doubt exceptional. So I suppose he exactly knew what he was doing elaborating sophoclean version of the myth in this very way.
Oh, I am not trying to attack him. I was just putting an alternative view and I don't expect many would agree with me. I was explaining my thinking rather than responding to what you had written.
Mike
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on February 19, 2012, 05:18:38 AM
Very kind, thank you Daniel! Yes, Die Fraus ohne Schatten is a beautiful piece and it's certainly worth seeing (but also only listening); you should have a listen to it in future as you seem to be so enthusiastic about Salome. ;)
Haha, Strauss' orchestration is always amazing......it only lacks the hammer and the cow bells. ;D
I shall definitely make sure to listen to it in the future! :)
Yes, no hammer! But remember in the Alpine Symphony, there are cowbells! :) And THUNDER MACHINE + WIND MACHINE!!! :D
Quote from: madaboutmahler on February 19, 2012, 07:10:08 AM
Yes, no hammer! But remember in the Alpine Symphony, there are cowbells! :) And THUNDER MACHINE + WIND MACHINE!!! :D
Ah, sure, how could I forget it?! :-[ ;D
Quote from: knight66 on February 19, 2012, 05:52:46 AM
Oh, I am not trying to attack him. I was just putting an alternative view and I don't expect many would agree with me. I was explaining my thinking rather than responding to what you had written.
Oh, he is not Shakespeare nor Goethe but he is known not only as librettist and he is a kind of writer who may be really liked by somebody who is interesting in history of literature. I suppose he was better as poet and writer of short prose not as playwright as this is the kind of works which were translated to my language.
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on February 19, 2012, 07:58:42 AM
Ah, sure, how could I forget it?! :-[ ;D
What is that chill passing up and down my spine? The Ghost of Wind Machines Past...... ::)
Quote from: knight66 on February 18, 2012, 03:13:03 PM
I want to put forward a contrary view on the librettist. He was clever, but also something of a bore. He was over wordy and he and Strauss had disagreements over the tone of some of the work. I recall letters from Strauss suggesting that various elements of the libretti were too high flown. I think they worked best in Elektra, which is quite tight. In Rosenkavalier there is a tendency to verbosity and it is often performed with cuts.
A while ago I tried to establish whether any of Hofmannsthal's plays were ever performed in modern times. I drew a blank. He was much admired, but styles change. Perhaps this is a little like George Bernard Shaw, much admired in his time, his very wordy plays are now not much performed, though often referred to.
I echo the urging to go to the ancient source material.
Mike
Actually, a couple of H's plays are fairly often produced in Austria and Germany - I remember seeing one famous production of
Der Schwierige on German TV a few years ago. It is very charming, witty and subtler than anything by Shaw.
Jedermann gets played in Salzburg regularly.
Elektra, by the way, was a great play before it was an opera - there is a recording of the first Elektra, Gertrud Eysoldt, a few minutes of howling madness that are beyond anything Strauss ever composed, and I say that as a Strauss lover. It is true that there are no actors who can do this today. Also
Der Rosenkavalier is in many respects superior as a play to what Strauss made of it - it doesn't seem excessively wordy at all. Strauss only makes it seem so, if those normally practised cuts are opened and the singer (of Ochs, for instance) cannot compensate for the relative lack of inspiration.
Thanks for that information and the opinion. I saw Rosankavalier in English last week. It had the standard cuts. The Ochs was a good actor, but much I like the piece, shorter would I think have been better. But then, it comes from a world that provided for more space to pontificate. Perhaps attention spans were better amongst theatre goers then than now.
Mike
Really excited about these purchases:
[asin]B000KLRUJS[/asin]
[asin]B000E6EH04[/asin]
[asin]B000001GMP[/asin]
[asin]B000001GMQ[/asin]
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 12, 2012, 06:45:27 PM
Really excited about these purchases:
[asin]B000001GMP[/asin]
Should you want another version of this one, I'd highly recommend the Solti/Decca version (if you don't already have it).
Quote from: mc ukrneal on March 13, 2012, 02:26:19 AM
Should you want another version of this one, I'd highly recommend the Solti/Decca version (if you don't already have it).
I second this, Solti/Decca is the one I listen to.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on March 13, 2012, 05:26:41 AM
I second this, Solti/Decca is the one I listen to.
Hmm... I vote for Sawallisch/EMI, actually. Or wait until Thielemann/WPh comes out, which will be worth it for the orchestral contribution to one of Strauss' most imaginary scores. Not that either Boehm I (or Solti) are bad, by any means.
Quote from: jlaurson on March 13, 2012, 05:29:28 AM
Hmm... I vote for Sawallisch/EMI, actually. Or wait until Thielemann/WPh comes out, which will be worth it for the orchestral contribution to one of Strauss' most imaginary scores. Not that either Boehm I (or Solti) are bad, by any means.
When is Thielemann's being released?
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on March 13, 2012, 05:31:57 AM
When is Thielemann's being released?
Oh, probably later this year... around summer. Presumably first (or only) on blu-ray/DVD. (Unitel)
Phantasmorgastic, but with Shadows: FrOSch @ Salzburg — Notes from the 2011 Salzburg Festival ( 16 ) (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2011/08/phantasmorgastic-but-with-shadows.html)
Quote from: jlaurson on March 13, 2012, 05:39:41 AM
Oh, probably later this year... around summer. Presumably first (or only) on blu-ray/DVD. (Unitel)
Phantasmorgastic, but with Shadows: FrOSch @ Salzburg — Notes from the 2011 Salzburg Festival ( 16 ) (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2011/08/phantasmorgastic-but-with-shadows.html)
Ooo, a blue ray would be nice. Thanks, Jens.
Quote from: jlaurson on March 13, 2012, 05:29:28 AM
Hmm... I vote for Sawallisch/EMI, actually. Or wait until Thielemann/WPh comes out, which will be worth it for the orchestral contribution to one of Strauss' most imaginary scores. Not that either Boehm I (or Solti) are bad, by any means.
Bohm actually recorded this opera several times, Jens. This is his last recording of it and, from what I'm told, his most intense.
Quote from: mc ukrneal on March 13, 2012, 02:26:19 AM
Should you want another version of this one, I'd highly recommend the Solti/Decca version (if you don't already have it).
Thanks, Neal. I'll probably get Solti's (eventually).
Would it be fair to call Elektra the precursor to Berg's Wozzeck?
Is there only one precursor to the Berg?
Quote from: karlhenning on March 13, 2012, 08:32:31 AM
Is there only one precursor to the Berg?
Good point, Karl.
Elektra sounds quite Expressionist though and had to at least influence Berg. I like this scene:
http://www.youtube.com/v/5cgDL5TWoj4
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 13, 2012, 07:49:00 AM
Bohm actually recorded this opera several times, Jens. This is his last recording of it and, from what I'm told, his most intense.
I don't know about 'several times', but at least twice. Live as the above (with Nilsson, Rysanek, King, Barry, Hesse
DG (live) ), and once in the studio... with Rysanek, Hopf, Goltz, Schöffler, Höngen (Decca).
There's an unofficial cut that I've seen floating around on Opera D'Oro, I think... live from Vienna... with Christa Ludwig. If you count that, you'd have three.
All of them are cut... the only uncut performances (benefiting the Nurse most, whose role becomes the dramatic equivalent (and more) of the other four principals) are Solit, Sawallisch, and -when it comes out - Thielemann.
In fact, the production that Thielemann conducted in Salzburg (see link to review above) centered around that first recording of Boehm's... or perhaps both.
QuoteChristof Loy strips away the immediateness of the subject and introduces distance by going the route of opera-performance-within-opera-performance. He sets the story like someone who does not believe in the emotion that lies at the heart of Hofmannsthal's nostalgia-laced text, except on a superficial level. He describes and circumnavigates the core without feeling or touching it. The narrative is tied to the first complete* recording of Die Frau ohne Schatten with Karl Böhm in the winter of 1955 for Decca. Set (anachronistically) in Vienna's Sophiensaal, the space for many other very famous Decca opera productions in Vienna, it focuses on the stories of the performing singers (among them the 'innocent' newcomer Leonie Rysanek as the Empress and Elisabeth Höngen—a German star in the war-years (!) and a favorite of Karl Böhm as the manipulative nurse), and the analogies between their collegial relationships and the relationships of the characters in the libretto. ...
...Confusing might be that some elements of this, Loy's production, would easily fit the story of Karl Böhm's other, later performances and recordings in the late 70s: Birgit Nilsson as the blond 'foreign' singer (Dyer's wife)... except no longer new or an outsider, and two protagonists—Walter Berry and Christa Ludwig—as a famous married singer-couple... except then already divorced and she singing the part of the Nurse, not the Dyer's wife....
Quote from: jlaurson on March 13, 2012, 11:14:59 AM
I don't know about 'several times', but at least twice. Live as the above (with Nilsson, Rysanek, King, Barry, Hesse
DG (live) ), and once in the studio... with Rysanek, Hopf, Goltz, Schöffler, Höngen (Decca).
There's an unofficial cut that I've seen floating around on Opera D'Oro, I think... live from Vienna... with Christa Ludwig. If you count that, you'd have three.
All of them are cut... the only uncut performances (benefiting the Nurse most, whose role becomes the dramatic equivalent (and more) of the other four principals) are Solit, Sawallisch, and -when it comes out - Thielemann.
In fact, the production that Thielemann conducted in Salzburg (see link to review above) centered around that first recording of Boehm's... or perhaps both.
Thanks for the info, Jens and I look forward to reading your article in the new issue of
Listen: Life With Classical Music magazine. 8)
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 13, 2012, 11:18:07 AM
Thanks for the info, Jens and I look forward to reading your article in the new issue of Listen: Life With Classical Music magazine. 8)
:-) Well, I hope you will find them ("Rott" & "Spring") of merit... perhaps even entertaining.
Quote from: jlaurson on March 13, 2012, 05:29:28 AM
Hmm... I vote for Sawallisch/EMI, actually.
I'm a big fan of the Sawallisch, too. The sound I think is better as well, compared to Solti. More open for Sawallisch and colorful, which helps the score.
Quote from: jlaurson on March 13, 2012, 01:21:53 PM
:-) Well, I hope you will find them ("Rott" & "Spring") of merit... perhaps even entertaining.
;D
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on March 13, 2012, 05:26:41 AM
I second this, Solti/Decca is the one I listen to.
But have you heard this Bohm recording I bought?
Does anyone know why the naming for his Opus 86 is such a mess? I've seen it titled as:
Divertimento
Dance Suite
Verklungene Feste
Couperin Suite
Divertimento aus Klavierstücke von François Couperin
The latter seems most accurate, but I've never seen such a confusion of titles before. Do they refer to different versions? There is a similar lack of uniformity in the movement titles as well.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 13, 2012, 08:35:01 AM
Good point, Karl. Elektra sounds quite Expressionist though and had to at least influence Berg. I like this scene:
Elektra influenced everything that came after 1909, directly or indirectly. It was one of the most important musical events and sort of an opening shot for the race to the 20th century. (In which Strauss would, intriguingly, not participate.) In that sense it's the mother of much that came after it... but I would not draw a direct line from Elektra to Wozzeck, or call it its precursor...
Quote from: Lethevich on March 19, 2012, 02:35:27 PM
Does anyone know why the naming for his Opus 86 is such a mess? I've seen it titled as:
Divertimento
Dance Suite
Verklungene Feste
Couperin Suite
Divertimento aus Klavierstücke von François Couperin
The latter seems most accurate, but I've never seen such a confusion of titles before. Do they refer to different versions? There is a similar lack of uniformity in the movement titles as well.
Intriguing. Wiki calls it: Dance Suite for chamber orchestra after keyboard pieces by Couperin.
Here is a reference you may enjoy:
http://www.allmusic.com/work/dance-suite-for-small-orchestra-after-f-couperins-keyboard-works-oop-107-trv-245-av-107-c62301/description (http://www.allmusic.com/work/dance-suite-for-small-orchestra-after-f-couperins-keyboard-works-oop-107-trv-245-av-107-c62301/description)
Interestingly, the TrV number is the same, but some other numbers differ between the two sources.
Ah. but then I found this, which seems to explain the differences: http://www.answers.com/topic/divertimento-for-small-orchestra-after-f-couperin-s-keyboard-works-op-86-trv-245b (http://www.answers.com/topic/divertimento-for-small-orchestra-after-f-couperin-s-keyboard-works-op-86-trv-245b)
Re: Thielemann's Fr-O-Sch (German word for frog; Strauss's nickname for Die Frau ohne Schatten)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on March 13, 2012, 05:31:57 AM
When is Thielemann's being released?
I see the ad for the DVD in the April BBC Magazine, but no listing on Amazon. How long must we wait for the US compatible version (or will it ever be available)?
It got released yesterday and I think the Blu-ray at least is region free. I'll confirm upon delivery (presently its status reads "processing for dispatch").
Re: Thielemann's Die Frau ohne Schatten DVD/BluRay
See the excerpts of this new video on YouTube. The staging follows the current trend of having a contemporary setting. I have seen the opera at the Met (Thielemann) and have the Solti DVD; these productions do the opera justice. With the staging of the new DVD as seen on YouTube, I will opt for the CD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-a4oY2dWxg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-a4oY2dWxg)
Quote from: johnshade on April 02, 2012, 10:06:35 AM
Re: Thielemann's Die Frau ohne Schatten DVD/BluRay
See the excerpts of this new video on YouTube. The staging follows the current trend of having a contemporary setting. I have seen the opera at the Met (Thielemann) and have the Solti DVD; these productions do the opera justice. With the staging of the new DVD as seen on YouTube, I will opt for the CD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-a4oY2dWxg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-a4oY2dWxg)
oh, it wasn't that bad. unless of course you can't abide anything that adheres to "the current trend of having a contemporary setting". :D very quaintly put.
for one, the opera is notoriously unstageable, anyway. and this story-within-a-story (more or less the story of the making of Boehm's first recordings of the same opera) is pretty cleverly done. too clever by half, admittedly... but altogether fine.
ADVERTISMENT!
To all my fellow Straussians! Have started a Blind Comparison here for Also Sprach Zarathustra, would be wonderful if you could take part. If you want to, please just post a comment on the thread!
Quote from: Wanderer on March 27, 2012, 02:23:01 PM
It got released yesterday and I think the Blu-ray at least is region free. I'll confirm upon delivery (presently its status reads "processing for dispatch").
...months upon delivery would have been more accurate. The Blu-ray
is indeed region free; a very good and inspired reading wasted on a mediocre staging that very rarely seems to justify the efforts of the singers and orchestra. Recommended on its musical merits alone.
Quote from: Wanderer on July 04, 2012, 09:19:24 AM
...months upon delivery would have been more accurate. The Blu-ray is indeed region free; a very good and inspired reading wasted on a mediocre staging that very rarely seems to justify the efforts of the singers and orchestra. Recommended on its musical merits alone.
It's a shame, I was excited for this, found some clips online and I will not be buying this :(
Dudes!
I could not believe it! In the intervening months since I last checked, perhaps back in the winter, the Metropolitan Opera has released my favorite version of Elektra on DVD. Hildegard Behrens, Brigitte Fassbänder, Deborah Voigt (before her weight loss: it is interesting to see Behrens put her into an armlock!) and James Levine conducting.
Wait until you see Behrens climb onto a huge fallen horse statue, shake her fist at the sky, and sing: "Agamemnon hört dich!"
For some reason the Amazon image is not loading: so, from the "Met Opera Shop" we have this:
(http://www.metoperashop.org/mainstreet/get_image.aspx?domain=metopera.org&image_guid=52e2988e-1cf8-40ea-9f81-6e498a19d70e&size=1)
As the one reviewer (so far) says: "Buy it while you can!"
Quote from: Cato on July 06, 2012, 07:14:05 AM
Dudes!
I could not believe it! In the intervening months since I last checked, perhaps back in the winter, the Metropolitan Opera has released my favorite version of Elektra on DVD. Hildegard Behrens, Brigitte Fassbänder, Deborah Voigt (before her weight loss: it is interesting to see Behrens put her into an armlock!) and James Levine conducting.
Wait until you see Behrens climb onto a huge fallen horse statue, shake her fist at the sky, and sing: "Agamemnon hört dich!"
For some reason the Amazon image is not loading: so, from the "Met Opera Shop" we have this:
(http://www.metoperashop.org/mainstreet/get_image.aspx?domain=metopera.org&image_guid=52e2988e-1cf8-40ea-9f81-6e498a19d70e&size=1)
As the one reviewer (so far) says: "Buy it while you can!"
An excerpt of a review of the performance from "Opera Obsession:"
QuoteHere, James Levine leads the Met orchestra in a reading of Strauss's score which was, literally for me, hair-raising. Brigitte Fassbaender's Klytemnaestra and Deborah Voigt's Chrysothemis are both performances which it's great to find preserved. And still, the opera finds its anchor in the Elektra of Hildegard Behrens. Behrens made Elektra--half-mad and yet less deluded than those around her--terrifyingly credible. Ordinarily I would deplore the habit of focusing the camera on one singer while another is singing... but to watch Behrens reacting to Fassbaender is mesmerizing. Fassbaender was given a costume that looked like something out of King Solomon's Mines, but she dripped with venom, and radiated terror. The relationship of the two sisters is also poignantly realized by Behrens and Voigt. Otto Schenk's production doesn't really help, dictating that Chrysothemis do a lot of standing around. Fortunately, Voigt is a fine actress (and, my gosh, that glorious sound!) and she and Behrens portrayed a relationship that is clearly loving, even when the sisters are frustrated by or uncomprehending of the other's actions. It is no small thing, I think, to make Chrysothemis sympathetic when the audience is so caught up in Elektra's fierce indictment of inaction. Voigt did this admirably, and her "Ich kann nicht sitzen" was lush. I think the impression that Behrens was actually standing on Voigt, arced over her like a bow, during her attempt to persuade her to slay Aegisth, must have been an illusion of the staging and filming, but it was an exciting one.
Donald McIntyre is a nobly-sung Orest, who reacts movingly to his sister's plight. James King (!) is Aegisth, past his vocal prime but with undeniable presence, and still-unmistakable timbre. The night belonged to the women, though. And to the orchestra, which thudded and screeched and sobbed and created sounds that crept unpleasantly down my spine. This review is incoherent enough as it is, but let me come back to Behrens, if only to register my awe. She was mesmerizing, her handling of text impeccable and her use of vocal coloring thrilling. So complete was her assumption of the role that it came as a bit of a shock to me to register her visible exhaustion at the curtain calls, when she was deservedly overwhelmed with applause.
http://operaobsession.blogspot.com/2011/07/from-met-archives-elektra.htmlThanks to YouTube, an excerpt:
http://www.youtube.com/v/w8mL9tWk1Qo&feature=related
It's very moving - she's a powerful actress: I think she's taken female figures in Fassbinder movies as a model here (I'm not surprised you misspelled Fassbaender's name). I do think Elektra is madder than that, but my problem is mainly with her voice - she manages it well, but it has no volume and cutting power to my ears, nor any special expressiveness. When she first appeared at the Frankfurt Opera in the early 70s and sang roles like Kata Kabanova (stunning), she blew me away. Doing the big Wagner roles ruined her voice, I believe.
To get an impression of the degree of derangement Hofmannsthal envisaged, one must listen to the only recording of a speech from the play by the first actress to take the role - who was seen by Richard Strauss, of course: Gertrud Eysoldt. I have never heard anything like it, frightening, beyond anything any singer has ever achieved.
Quote from: mjwal on July 07, 2012, 01:59:27 AM
It's very moving - she's a powerful actress: I think she's taken female figures in Fassbinder movies as a model here (I'm not surprised you misspelled Fassbaender's name). I do think Elektra is madder than that, but my problem is mainly with her voice - she manages it well, but it has no volume and cutting power to my ears, nor any special expressiveness. When she first appeared at the Frankfurt Opera in the early 70s and sang roles like Kata Kabanova (stunning), she blew me away. Doing the big Wagner roles ruined her voice, I believe.
To get an impression of the degree of derangement Hofmannsthal envisaged, one must listen to the only recording of a speech from the play by the first actress to take the role - who was seen by Richard Strauss, of course: Gertrud Eysoldt. I have never heard anything like it, frightening, beyond anything any singer has ever achieved.
Aber
ich habe den Aufsatz nicht geschrieben: das wurde tatsächlich von einer gewissen Frau "Lucy" geschrieben!
http://operaobsession.blogspot.com/2011/07/from-met-archives-elektra.html (http://operaobsession.blogspot.com/2011/07/from-met-archives-elektra.html)
Wo kann man diese Aufführung von Gertrud Eysoldt finden?
Lieber Cato, dann war es die betreffende Dame, die die unbewusste Verbindung zwischen Elektra, Klytemnestra und Fassbinder herstellte! Egal - das war vielleicht eine Fehlleistung aber kein Fehler...
Leider ist die Aufnahme von G.Eysoldt natürlich keine Aufführung, sondern eine verrauschte alte Aufzeichnung einer relativ kurzen Textstelle, die ich jetzt aus dem Gedächtnis heraus nicht identifizieren kann, es geht um ihre Rachegelüste. Ich kann diese Aufnahme nicht Online finden - in Frankreich habe ich sie auf CD. Wenn jemand mir erklärt, wie man Sachen bei YouTube uploadet, würde ich das im August machen, wenn ich wieder dort bin.
[brief summary] So that lovely parapraxis (not a mistake!) was committed by a lady - great. I can't find the Eysoldt online, I have the recording on CD in France and would be prepared to upload it to YouTube in August, if somebody tells me how.
Quote from: Cato on July 07, 2012, 08:23:49 AM
Aber ich habe den Aufsatz nicht geschrieben: das wurde tatsächlich von einer gewissen Frau "Lucy" geschrieben!
"Lucy" uses the correct name for the singer; you commit the parapraxis when the name of the director slips in, instead:
QuoteDudes!
I could not believe it! ...the Metropolitan Opera has released my favorite version of Elektra on DVD. Hildegard Behrens, Brigitte Fassbinder...
Quote from: jlaurson on July 07, 2012, 10:35:58 AM
"Lucy" uses the correct name for the singer; you commit the parapraxis when the name of the director slips in, instead:
Okay! That explains it!
I came across this Elektra curiosity on YouTube thanks to the Zürich Opera: Elektra as a wannabe gang member in da hood!
http://www.youtube.com/v/OBgD1hyQz20&feature=related
The commentary is interesting!
There's the 'Music Like 'Le Sacre' or 'Scythian Suite'' Thread,... wouldn't some RS fit there? I've always shied away from him, but I did hear part of 'Salome' that had some pretty cutting music. Is there anything orchestral-only?
Quote from: snyprrr on July 09, 2012, 05:09:27 PM
There's the 'Music Like 'Le Sacre' or 'Scythian Suite'' Thread,... wouldn't some RS fit there? I've always shied away from him, but I did hear part of 'Salome' that had some pretty cutting music. Is there anything orchestral-only?
Strauss at his most primal is found in
Salome and in
Elektra, with the latter in certain parts approaching a kind of
Schoenbergian Expressionism.
The orchestral tone-poems would seem not to fit the "Like
Le Sacre/Scythian Suite" definition.
Aye, the tone-poems, even at their most adventurous, belong solidly within the sonic æsthetic to which Le sacre was so Protean a response.
Quote from: snyprrr on July 09, 2012, 05:09:27 PM
There's the 'Music Like 'Le Sacre' or 'Scythian Suite'' Thread,... wouldn't some RS fit there? I've always shied away from him, but I did hear part of 'Salome' that had some pretty cutting music. Is there anything orchestral-only?
Yes... as the gents have said: Nothing else in R.Strauss fits the mold of Elektra and Salome. Visceral, brutal, hard cutting, modern... you might just have to endure the screaming until you like it. (Should take no more than 4, 5 years -- the payoff is immense and manifold worth it.) The only thing that comes in any way close is
Josephslegende (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:d-ULc1VmHkYJ:www.weta.org/oldfmblog/%3Fp%3D157+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&lr=lang_de%7Clang_en).
QuoteJosephs Legende is a Sergei Diaghilev commission for his Ballets Russe, based on a libretto concocted by Hugo von Hofmannsthal and the colorful Count Harry Kessler, that jack of all trades, diplomat, and friend of seemingly every important or famous personality of the early 20th century. Strauss accepted the idea – but the religious story didn't sit right with him. More labor than love might have gone into Josephs Legende, even as Strauss made sure that the music displaced any all-too mystical or religious aspects of the story with earthy eroticism. The result is a work that, composed on Elektra and Salome's heels, is less ambitious than either, shorter, less varied, but not much less enticing. If Elektra has curdled blood flowing in its veins, and Salome a sweet poison, Josephs Legende is fueled with Viennese Mélange .
You can hear ideas in it that foreshadow Die Frau ohne Schatten. An unkind, but hardly inaccurate, description of Josephs Legende would be that of a test-run for the latter opera. Set to a story of Hofmannsthal that was much more to the liking of Strauss.
Hm, that there Joseph is a piece I've long known, albeit in name alone....
I listened to Le bourgeois gentilhomme last night.
It will be some time before I listen to it again. :(
Quote from: karlhenning on July 10, 2012, 04:42:55 AM
Hm, that there Joseph is a piece I've long known, albeit in name alone....
The symphonic suite for
Josephslegende is good. I've had one listen all the way through the ballet but mostly go to the suite.
Quote from: Scots John on July 10, 2012, 04:58:20 AM
I listened to Le bourgeois gentilhomme last night.
It will be some time before I listen to it again. :(
The best way to enjoy is to pick out the good movements from the suite like
The Entry of Cleonte.
Quote from: karlhenning on July 10, 2012, 04:42:55 AM
Hm, that there Joseph is a piece I've long known, albeit in name alone....
just 'rescued' my little blurp on the piece:
Iván Fischer, Richard Strauss, Josephs Legendehttp://ionarts.blogspot.com/2012/07/ivan-fischer-richard-strauss-josephs.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2012/07/ivan-fischer-richard-strauss-josephs.html)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-U4wuzZnr4mQ/T_w0mPmPmEI/AAAAAAAAC5k/RneIq6p9dUE/s1600/Josephslegende_panorama.png) (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2012/07/ivan-fischer-richard-strauss-josephs.html)
Josephslegende is certainly a work I would be interested to hear... :)
By the way - the Also Sprach Zarathustra Blind Comparison has started now, if you haven't signed up yet but still want to take part, you still can, just let me know! :)
Quote from: madaboutmahler on July 10, 2012, 02:30:15 PM
Josephslegende is certainly a work I would be interested to hear... :)
You should check it out, Daniel, quite colorful and interesting,
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 10, 2012, 05:04:32 AM
The symphonic suite for Josephslegende is good. I've had one listen all the way through the ballet but mostly go to the suite.
...I realized this may have sounded as if I dislike the whole ballet, and that's not the case, the suite itself is almost 30 minutes long for a ballet that's about an hour, it covers a lot of ground. I have the
Sinopoli disc and that's the only ballet recording I've heard, you should give it a try, Daniel, considering how happy
Der Rosenkavalier makes you.
Quote from: jlaurson on July 10, 2012, 06:04:58 AM
just 'rescued' my little blurp on the piece:
Iván Fischer, Richard Strauss, Josephs Legende
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2012/07/ivan-fischer-richard-strauss-josephs.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2012/07/ivan-fischer-richard-strauss-josephs.html)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-U4wuzZnr4mQ/T_w0mPmPmEI/AAAAAAAAC5k/RneIq6p9dUE/s1600/Josephslegende_panorama.png) (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2012/07/ivan-fischer-richard-strauss-josephs.html)
Nice blurp, has me reaching for a listen to the full ballet, I'm literally reaching for the disc right now, unfortunately it's buried under my many
Oboe Concerto and
Duett-Concertino recordings
(the fortissimo-loving, Horn playing high school version of me would have fainted if he knew I would one day say that)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 10, 2012, 03:35:22 PM
You should check it out, Daniel, quite colorful and interesting,
...I realized this may have sounded as if I dislike the whole ballet, and that's not the case, the suite itself is almost 30 minutes long for a ballet that's about an hour, it covers a lot of ground. I have the Sinopoli disc and that's the only ballet recording I've heard, you should give it a try, Daniel, considering how happy Der Rosenkavalier makes you.
Thank you, Greg - I am certainly very keen to hear it. :)
I see Fischer made a recording of the complete ballet, I would imagine that would be good. (if it's still available, it seems to have gone missing from amazon...)
Quote from: Cato on July 06, 2012, 07:14:05 AM
Dudes!
I could not believe it! In the intervening months since I last checked, perhaps back in the winter, the Metropolitan Opera has released my favorite version of Elektra on DVD. Hildegard Behrens, Brigitte Fassbänder, Deborah Voigt (before her weight loss: it is interesting to see Behrens put her into an armlock!) and James Levine conducting.
Wait until you see Behrens climb onto a huge fallen horse statue, shake her fist at the sky, and sing: "Agamemnon hört dich!"
As the one reviewer (so far) says: "Buy it while you can!"
I think this is one of the great opera videos. I like everything about it. No one can perform Elektra like Behrens.
JS
Quote from: johnshade on July 11, 2012, 12:05:40 PM
I think this is one of the great opera videos. I like everything about it. No one can perform Elektra like Behrens.
JS
Thanks, John (and Cato) - somehow I missed that this had been released and will definitely get it. I saw the same production at the Met a couple of years ago (it's fantastic) with Voigt but alas, no Behrens. (This must have been taped when the production debuted.)
Elektra is one of my favorite operas.
--Bruce
Quote from: Brewski on July 11, 2012, 12:13:00 PM
Thanks, John (and Cato) - somehow I missed that this had been released and will definitely get it. I saw the same production at the Met a couple of years ago (it's fantastic) with Voigt but alas, no Behrens. (This must have been taped when the production debuted.) Elektra is one of my favorite operas.
--Bruce
My DVD arrived today: I hope to crank it up tomorrow morning. I am most interested in the sound quality, which I assume will be better than what I received from PBS on my monaural VCR!
Yum.
Quote from: johnshade on July 11, 2012, 12:05:40 PM
I think this is one of the great opera videos. I like everything about it. No one can perform Elektra like Behrens.
JS
Yes, it is! The stereo sound quality is excellent: at times it seems as if one is standing on the stage or sitting with the orchestra! The words of the singers are much clearer than what I had picked up from the original broadcast on television.
Highly recommended, for all the reasons mentioned before and because the quality of the DVD is top-notch!
Have completely fallen in love with the Mondscheinmusik from Capriccio. Divine perfection, and late Strauss at his best! I am setting up a small lightening round blind comparison project for it. It would take around 40 minutes of your time and I'm sure it would be pleasurable as the music is just so gorgeous, which such a wide interpretative scale as well. So please do let me know if you would like to take part!
Quote from: madaboutmahler on May 27, 2013, 03:20:45 PM
Have completely fallen in love with the Mondscheinmusik from Capriccio. Divine perfection, and late Strauss at his best! I am setting up a small lightening round blind comparison project for it. It would take around 40 minutes of your time and I'm sure it would be pleasurable as the music is just so gorgeous, which such a wide interpretative scale as well. So please do let me know if you would like to take part!
Oh, I'll at least try to participate in that. I love that music, too! As I do the Sextet. Indeed the entire opera, actually.
Quote from: jlaurson on May 28, 2013, 08:21:43 AM
Oh, I'll at least try to participate in that. I love that music, too! As I do the Sextet. Indeed the entire opera, actually.
Great, Jens! Thanks! The sextet is indeed beautiful also, I need to listen to the whole opera too!
I haven't listened to Strauss' Capriccio yet, but the Mondscheinmusik is certainly brilliant, delightful music. Such a passionate, intense and beautifully atmospheric composition, with an elegant, colourful orchestration; Strauss was able to handle the brass in a masterful way. :D
The whole opera should be very charming, it deals with a great subject, the importance of music and poetry; on second thoughts, Wagner also discussed about that in his essay Das Kunstwerk der Zukunft.
You need Bohm and Janowitz in this piece.
Mike
Saturday Strauss-a-thon! 8)
Currently:
Horn Concerto No. 1 in E flat major, Op. 11
Horn Concerto No. 2 in E flat major
Peter Damm, horn
Oboe Concerto in D major
Manfred Clement, oboe
Duett-Concertino for clarinet, bassoon and strings
Manfred Weise, clarinet
Wolfgang Liebscher, bassoon
Kempe, conducting
Staatskapelle Dresden
EMI Classics
[asin]B000026D4K[/asin]
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 02, 2013, 06:47:05 AM
Saturday Strauss-a-thon! 8)
Currently:
Horn Concerto No. 1 in E flat major, Op. 11
Horn Concerto No. 2 in E flat major
Peter Damm, horn
Oboe Concerto in D major
Manfred Clement, oboe
Duett-Concertino for clarinet, bassoon and strings
Manfred Weise, clarinet
Wolfgang Liebscher, bassoon
Kempe, conducting
Staatskapelle Dresden
Awesome, Ray! Strauss composed some beautiful concertos, and the Duett-Concertino is a personal favorite of mine.
I enjoy the applause at the end of this performance of the Alpine Symphony (http://www.col-legno.com/en/catalog/complete_catalog/eine_alpensinfonie); it tells me that I am right to love this recording, the one that revealed the work's greatness to me.
Continuing on with Saturday Strauss-a-thon! 8)
Burleske for Piano and Orchestra in D minor
Malcolm Frager, piano
Parergon zur Sinfonia Domestica for piano (left hand) and orchestra, Op. 73
*Panathenaenzug, Op. 74, symphonic studies in the form of a passacaglia for piano (left hand) and orchestra
Peter Rosel, piano
Dance of the Seven Veils, from Salome, Op. 54
Le Bourgeois Gentilhomme Suite, Op. 60
Schlagobers Waltz, Op. 70
Josephslegende, symphonic fragment, Op. 63
Kempe, conducting
Staatskapelle Dresden
EMI Classics
*Hadn't listened to Panathen....for some time, what a fantastic piece! :)
[asin]B000026D4K[/asin]
Fininishing off a most enjoyable Strauss-a-thon! 8)
Aus Italien, Op. 16
Macbeth, Op. 23
Don Quixote, Op. 35
Paul Tortelier, cello
Max Rostal, viola
Dance Suite from harpsichord pieces by Couperin
Kempe, conducting
Staatskapelle Dresden
EMI Classics
*Particularly enthralled with Aus Italien, a piece I wasn't really into before, and I've always loved the Couperin Dance Suite, especially the exquisite Carillon! :)
[asin]B000026D4K[/asin]
Strauss-a-thons are the best! You go Ray! 8)
Plus you can't go wrong with the Kempe set.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on November 03, 2013, 05:05:26 AM
Strauss-a-thons are the best! You go Ray! 8)
Plus you can't go wrong with the Kempe set.
That was 15 works in a row! :D
Highly enjoyable, and the best 're-discovery' of sorts that made me go "Wow, this is really, really good", was the
Panathenäenzug, for piano (left hand) and orchestra, Op. 74 (in the form of a passacaglia).
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on November 03, 2013, 05:05:26 AM
Strauss-a-thons are the best! You go Ray! 8)
Plus you can't go wrong with the Kempe set.
I see John (MI) participated quite a bit in this thread, so at one point he did enjoy Richard Strauss' music. :D
With Richard Strauss' music, I find that this is where I am at my most Anacondian! ;D
I can go for several months of not listening to his music, but when I do, it is usually a massive gorge and binge festspiel!
(http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/oct2009/rock-python-eating.jpg)
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 03, 2013, 05:12:33 AM
That was 15 works in a row! :D
Take it easy, Ray! ;D Now for a shocker :o: I listened to the Oboe Concerto from the Kempe set last night. I didn't hate it, but I can't say I
liked it. Nevertheless, I'm glad I gave it a fresh listen.
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 03, 2013, 05:13:29 AM
I see John (MI) participated quite a bit in this thread, so at one point he did enjoy Richard Strauss' music. :D
Yeah, Strauss' music isn't enough like Schnittke for John to like it anymore! ;)
Quote from: kyjo on November 03, 2013, 05:54:32 AM
Take it easy, Ray! ;D Now for a shocker :o: I listened to the Oboe Concerto from the Kempe set last night. I didn't hate it, but I can't say I liked it. Nevertheless, I'm glad I gave it a fresh listen.
I'm done for awhile. :D Anyways Kyle, good that you checked out the Oboe Concerto.
Have you heard the
Panathenäenzug, for piano (left hand) and orchestra, Op. 74 (in the form of a passacaglia)?
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 03, 2013, 05:13:29 AM
I see John (MI) participated quite a bit in this thread, so at one point he did enjoy Richard Strauss' music. :D
We've come to accept John and his flip-flopping of composers. For example Delius and Strauss. He'll warm up to Strauss again. 8) :)
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 03, 2013, 05:56:56 AM
I'm done for awhile. :D Anyways Kyle, good that you checked out the Oboe Concerto.
Have you heard the Panathenäenzug, for piano (left hand) and orchestra, Op. 74 (in the form of a passacaglia)?
Yes, I have, but it's been a couple years! I intend to listen to it in the near future. I'm (slowly) going to make my way through the Kempe set over the next couple weeks. :)
Quote from: kyjo on November 03, 2013, 05:54:32 AM
Take it easy, Ray! ;D Now for a shocker :o: I listened to the Oboe Concerto from the Kempe set last night. I didn't hate it, but I can't say I liked it. Nevertheless, I'm glad I gave it a fresh listen.
Kyjo, even if you slightly enjoyed parts of the oboe concerto, then give a good listen to the Duett-Concertino for Clarinet and Bassoon, a magical work. A piece composed late in Strauss' life around Metamorphoson and Four Last Songs.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on November 03, 2013, 05:57:52 AM
We've come to accept John and his flip-flopping of composers. For example Delius and Strauss. He'll warm up to Strauss again. 8) :)
I wouldn't put
anything past John! ;)
His flip-flopping with Delius was much more extreme than with Strauss. Go check out some of his posts in the Delius thread and you'll see what I mean! ;D Speaking of Delius, I haven't been able to get his
Florida Suite out of my head lately......
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on November 03, 2013, 06:00:25 AM
Kyjo, even if you slightly enjoyed parts of the oboe concerto, then give a good listen to the Duett-Concertino for Clarinet and Bassoon, a magical work. A piece composed late in Strauss' life around Metamorphoson and Four Last Songs.
Thanks for the tip, Greg! I'll put it on my to-listen list. :) BTW in case I haven't mentioned it before, I
do like
Burleske. A fun work!
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 03, 2013, 05:56:56 AM
I'm done for awhile. :D Anyways Kyle, good that you checked out the Oboe Concerto.
Have you heard the Panathenäenzug, for piano (left hand) and orchestra, Op. 74 (in the form of a passacaglia)?
I love that work, Ray, alongside the Burleske.
The Panathenäenzug is truly special if you're a fan of Sinfonia Domestica since they share many musical themes.
Quote from: kyjo on November 03, 2013, 05:59:21 AM
Yes, I have, but it's been a couple years! I intend to listen to it in the near future. I'm (slowly) going to make my way through the Kempe set over the next couple weeks. :)
Kyle, it made a big impression on me, and it includes a passacaglia. :) :D
In my mind, it may now be my favourite of Strauss' piano and orchestra works.
Definitely check it out on your next dip into the Kempe set.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on November 03, 2013, 06:05:03 AM
I love that work, Ray, alongside the Burleske.
The Panathenäenzug is truly special if you're a fan of Sinfonia Domestica since they share many musical themes.
Hmm, Greg. I thought it was
Parergon that was the piano and orchestra piece that shared musical themes with Sinfonia Domestica? ???
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 03, 2013, 06:07:21 AM
Kyle, it made a big impression on me, and it includes a passacaglia. :) :D
Passacaglias rock! 8)
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 03, 2013, 06:08:37 AM
Hmm, Greg. I thought it was Parergon that was the piano and orchestra piece that shared musical themes with Sinfonia Domestica? ???
I stand corrected. I was getting overly excited talking about Strauss, and reading on my tiny phone screen didn't help, I saw the "P" and flew with it! ;D
Thanks, Ray.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on November 03, 2013, 06:14:24 AM
I stand corrected. I was getting overly excited talking about Strauss, and reading on my tiny phone screen didn't help, I saw the "P" and flew with it! ;D
Thanks, Ray.
No worries! Parergon is a great piece as well. And, I've always loved the Burleske.
I'm getting to know Mondscheinmusik from Capriccio. It's been fun to compile a Spotify playlist and rattle off different recordings one after the other. The Sextet from the same work is looming...
Hat tip to Ray, listened to Panathenaenzug (from the Kempe set) tonight. Not bad at all! Certainly not a very deep work but indeed rather enjoyable. I particularly liked the magical middle section.
I'll be sure to listen to the Duett-Concertino, recommended by Greg, tomorrow! :)
Quote from: kyjo on November 04, 2013, 06:17:51 PM
Hat tip to Ray, listened to Panathenaenzug (from the Kempe set) tonight. Not bad at all! Certainly not a very deep work but indeed rather enjoyable. I particularly liked the magical middle section.
I'll be sure to listen to the Duett-Concertino, recommended by Greg, tomorrow! :)
Excellent, Kyle! :) Glad you listened to it, and hope you'll also enjoy the Duett-Concertino!
Listened last night to the Duett-Concertino (hat tip to Monkey Greg). The opening of the first movement is quite haunting and magical, but the rest of the movement didn't grab me as much. The second movement has a similarly magical opening (softly strumming harp over a floating bassoon solo). The finale does go on for a bit, but it's quite enjoyable and vivacious.
I'll be re-listening to the tone poems next. I've been concentrating on the concertante works lately, which have revealed to me a different side to what I have been considering a rather "bloated" composer.
Quote from: kyjo on November 06, 2013, 11:16:03 AM
Listened last night to the Duett-Concertino (hat tip to Monkey Greg). The opening of the first movement is quite haunting and magical, but the rest of the movement didn't grab me as much. The second movement has a similarly magical opening (softly strumming harp over a floating bassoon solo). The finale does go on for a bit, but it's quite enjoyable and vivacious.
I'll be re-listening to the tone poems next. I've been concentrating on the concertante works lately, which have revealed to me a different side to what I have been considering a rather "bloated" composer.
You're bringing a tear of joy to this monkey's eye. :)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on November 06, 2013, 11:40:31 AM
You're bringing a tear of joy to this monkey's eye. :)
:laugh: :)
Quote from: kyjo on November 06, 2013, 11:16:03 AM
I'll be re-listening to the tone poems next. I've been concentrating on the concertante works lately, which have revealed to me a different side to what I have been considering a rather "bloated" composer.
+1 Kyle! :) If you are going through the tone poems, keep us posted on what you are listening to.
A previous work that I found a bit dull in the past, except for last week's listen, was the early tone poem 'Aus Italien'. It sounded pretty damn good.
And I've always been a big fan of Strauss' Violin Concerto. A more youthful work, but to me, a wonderful Romantic violin concerto.
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 06, 2013, 11:52:03 AM
+1 Kyle! :) If you are going through the tone poems, keep us posted on what you are listening to.
A previous work that I found a bit dull in the past, except for last week's listen, was the early tone poem 'Aus Italien'. It sounded pretty damn good.
And I've always been a big fan of Strauss' Violin Concerto. A more youthful work, but to me, a wonderful Romantic violin concerto.
Thanks, Ray! I'll be sure to keep you guys posted! :)
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 02, 2013, 06:47:05 AM
Saturday Strauss-a-thon! 8)
Currently:
Horn Concerto No. 1 in E flat major, Op. 11
Horn Concerto No. 2 in E flat major
Peter Damm, horn
Oboe Concerto in D major
Manfred Clement, oboe
Duett-Concertino for clarinet, bassoon and strings
Manfred Weise, clarinet
Wolfgang Liebscher, bassoon
Kempe, conducting
Staatskapelle Dresden
EMI Classics
[asin]B000026D4K[/asin]
This sounds right up my street! :) I don't know the 'Duett-Concertino' so I've ordered a copy of the Kempe,coupled with the Horn Concertos,which I actually don't have in my collection at the moment! ???
(I love the 'Burleske' too).
...and the 'Oboe Concerto',which I also don't know! :o
Nice to see you posting some more here, cilgwyn! What are your favorite Strauss works?
Just picked this up for a dirt cheap $4 at Half-Price Books:
[asin]B00000632L[/asin]
It got all 5-star reviews on Amazon, so I thought what the heck, I'll get it! Anyone familiar with it?
Quote from: kyjo on November 06, 2013, 03:55:30 PM
Just picked this up for a dirt cheap $4 at Half-Price Books:
[asin]B00000632L[/asin]
It got all 5-star reviews on Amazon, so I thought what the heck, I'll get it! Anyone familiar with it?
A
Domestica to rival the best right there. Good collection, Kyjo.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on November 06, 2013, 04:33:47 PM
A Domestica to rival the best right there. Good collection, Kyjo.
Excellent, Greg!
Symphonia Domestica is a work I'm not too familiar with, so it's good to hear I picked one of best recordings of it! BTW you can call me Kyle. :)
Quote from: kyjo on November 06, 2013, 03:55:30 PM
Just picked this up for a dirt cheap $4 at Half-Price Books:
[asin]B00000632L[/asin]
It got all 5-star reviews on Amazon, so I thought what the heck, I'll get it! Anyone familiar with it?
So let me get this straight: you don't like Strauss' music and have proclaimed many times this fact, but you're buying recordings of his music? And you say I'm the one who confuses you?!?!? ;) ;D
Quote from: kyjo on November 06, 2013, 04:42:13 PM
Excellent, Greg! Symphonia Domestica is a work I'm not too familiar with, so it's good to hear I picked one of best recordings of it! BTW you can call me Kyle. :)
Oooh, yes, Domestica. Entertaining work that gets maligned here and there but it's a work I've always enjoyed. My fave is Sawallisch's live Philadelphia (and so sumptuously recorded):
[asin]B000002RUG[/asin]
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 06, 2013, 06:06:19 PM
So let me get this straight: you don't like Strauss' music and have proclaimed many times this fact, but you're buying recordings of his music? And you say I'm the one who confuses you?!?!? ;) ;D
You'll be buying Holbrooke cds next,kyjo! ??? ;D And that won't take long! But even I'll admit,Strauss is
allot better than the cockney pretender!
Yes,the 'Sinfonia Domestica' gets allot of flak;but so do other unfairly maligned works,like Holst's 'Choral Symphony',VWs eighth and ninth symphonies and Elgar's 'The Music Makers',which I prefer to Gerontius. Oh,and anything by Roy Harris other than No 3 (and maybe they've got a point? :-\) And going back to the big man himself;the 'Alpine Symphony' ("all downhill once you get to the top";I can't remember the exact quote & who said it?) and 'Arabella' gets a few knocks,as do some of his later operas (allot!). Still,when you compose music portraying everyday household events you're asking for it really,aren't you. A bit like if I composed a 'Shopping Symphony,with movements subtitled,'Interlude in the Tesco coffee shop' and,well you get my drift......I hope?!
I'm going to go with Ormandy on this one,because I like his Respighi and he got me liking the Rachmaninov symphonies again;although no thanks to Sony for the annoying side break between cd 1 and 2,bang in the middle of the Second Symphony! >:( Why do cd companies do this? I know it's cheaper,but I'd rather pay a bit more for an uninterrupted symphony! (Oh well,just make a cdr!!)
Also (getting back on topic) the Ormandy 'Sinfonia Domestica' is cheap;and you get those 'famous' strings! Not sure if I can listen to 'Tod und Verklarung' since my mum died. I found that theme very moving and poignant,even before she died. In fact I remember listening to it with her and warning her about that colossal thwack near the beginning. I didn't want any dead bodies closer to home! :( I was playing the Telarc/Previn recording,by the way.
And no,it wasn't the Strauss that killed her ;D :(!
Oooh,it must be nice owning that Kempe box set!
Of course,it's Szell conducting the main items on the cd. Silly me,but I had things to do! ::) Anyway,Szell conducting Strauss,could be interesting. Clinical,precise,a dry acoustic;forget sumptuousness!! Maybe he's the right man to reign in Straussian excess?
But maybe,that's what Richard Strauss is all about? In a good way,of course! ;D
I've now edited these three posts into a more concise & polite two.
NB: I see Classical.Net raves about this recording!
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 06, 2013, 06:06:19 PM
So let me get this straight: you don't like Strauss' music and have proclaimed many times this fact, but you're buying recordings of his music? And you say I'm the one who confuses you?!?!? ;) ;D
Right back atcha! ;D I was wrong when I said I
hate Strauss' music. That is not the case. I doubt he'll ever be a favorite of mine, but I'm giving him another chance. :)
Quote from: cilgwyn on November 07, 2013, 05:42:10 AM
You'll be buying Holbrooke cds next,kyjo! ??? ;D And that won't take long! But even I'll admit,Strauss is allot better than the cockney pretender!
Yes,the 'Sinfonia Domestica' gets allot of flak;but so do other unfairly maligned works,like Holst's 'Choral Symphony',VWs eighth and ninth symphonies and Elgar's 'The Music Makers',which I prefer to Gerontius. Oh,and anything by Roy Harris other than No 3 (and maybe they've got a point? :-\) And going back to the big man himself;the 'Alpine Symphony' ("all downhill once you get to the top";I can't remember the exact quote & who said it?) and 'Arabella' gets a few knocks,as do some of his later operas (allot!). Still,when you compose music portraying everyday household events you're asking for it really,aren't you. A bit like if I composed a 'Shopping Symphony,with movements subtitled,'Interlude in the Tesco coffee shop' and,well you get my drift......I hope?!
I'm going to go with Ormandy on this one,because I like his Respighi and he got me liking the Rachmaninov symphonies again;although no thanks to Sony for the annoying side break between cd 1 and 2,bang in the middle of the Second Symphony! >:( Why do cd companies do this? I know it's cheaper,but I'd rather pay a bit more for an uninterrupted symphony! (Oh well,just make a cdr!!)
Also (getting back on topic) the Ormandy 'Sinfonia Domestica' is cheap;and you get those 'famous' strings! Not sure if I can listen to 'Tod und Verklarung' since my mum died. I found that theme very moving and poignant,even before she died. In fact I remember listening to it with her and warning her about that colossal thwack near the beginning. I didn't want any dead bodies closer to home! :( I was playing the Telarc/Previn recording,by the way.
And no,it wasn't the Strauss that killed her ;D :(!
Oooh,it must be nice owning that Kempe box set!
Oh, I already have all of the Holbrooke CDs released to date (expect the series of his piano works on Cameo Classics)! ;D Believe it or not, my favorite work of his is the much-maligned PC 1, which appeals to me in its Lisztian/Rachmaninoffian gusto! It's often regarded as uncharacteristic, immature Holbrooke, but I like it, so who cares! :P
I agree with you about VW's Symphonies 8 and 9 being rather "maligned". I think the Eighth is a colorful, kaleidoscopic work and the Ninth is an enigmatic work of considerable visionary power. Popular as they are, I feel Rachmaninov's PC 2 and Symphony 2 are unfairly maligned by some.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 06, 2013, 07:02:00 PM
Oooh, yes, Domestica. Entertaining work that gets maligned here and there but it's a work I've always enjoyed. My fave is Sawallisch's live Philadelphia (and so sumptuously recorded):
[asin]B000002RUG[/asin]
That recording looks interesting, especially for the
Festliches Praeludium, a noble work which rises up to a grand climax. I only know it in its incarnation for brass and organ.
Quote from: kyjo on November 07, 2013, 09:51:04 AM
That recording looks interesting, especially for the Festliches Praeludium, a noble work which rises up to a grand climax. I only know it in its incarnation for brass and organ.
Yes, the
Festliches Praeludium is a stunner of a little piece. It's heart is big, for sure. And the impact of the audio here has to be heard to be believed. The depth and bloom are enormous. The organ shakes the floor. Talk about the perfect piece to give someone's big-rig hi-fi a workout!
(It was recorded live at Suntory Hall, Tokyo)
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 07, 2013, 01:19:44 PM
Yes, the Festliches Praeludium is a stunner of a little piece. It's heart is big, for sure. And the impact of the audio here has to be heard to be believed. The depth and bloom are enormous. The organ shakes the floor. Talk about the perfect piece to give someone's big-rig hi-fi a workout!
(It was recorded live at Suntory Hall, Tokyo)
Totally agree with these comments. I bought the CD just as a fan of Sawallisch and Philadelphia in general (and Strauss, of course) but that piece was the biggest surprise. (Had never heard it.) Then I found a recording of it with Bernstein and the NY Phil - which is good, but this one is much better - and
then heard it live with Salonen and LA in Disney Hall when they dedicated the hall's new organ. Needless to say, if you ever get the chance to hear it live, in a hall with a great organ, do NOT hesitate.
And you're totally right about the sound quality, which is exceptional, especially given that it's a live recording. Makes me want to get to Suntory Hall someday!
--Bruce
Yep, any big orchestral work with an important organ part is a sheer spectacle to see live!
Quote from: Brewski on November 07, 2013, 01:25:51 PM
Totally agree with these comments. I bought the CD just as a fan of Sawallisch and Philadelphia in general (and Strauss, of course) but that piece was the biggest surprise. (Had never heard it.) Then I found a recording of it with Bernstein and the NY Phil - which is good, but this one is much better - and then heard it live with Salonen and LA in Disney Hall when they dedicated the hall's new organ. Needless to say, if you ever get the chance to hear it live, in a hall with a great organ, do NOT hesitate.
And you're totally right about the sound quality, which is exceptional, especially given that it's a live recording. Makes me want to get to Suntory Hall someday!
--Bruce
A live experience would no doubt be awesome!
Quote from: Scarpia on November 07, 2013, 01:38:24 PM
It is hard to imagine Karl Bohm's performance of the Festliches Praeludium being topped, but a recording in modern sound would be interesting. The piece puts great demands on the brass (particularly the trumpets), and the fact that Bohm seems to keep them at the very edge of their capability in the big creshendo gives his performance a certain excitement.
The Sawallisch has the benefit of being live and while not a guarantee of success in this instance the performance has a palpable sense of occasion. It's cheap used on Amazon.
Quote from: kyjo on November 07, 2013, 09:51:04 AM
That recording looks interesting, especially for the Festliches Praeludium, a noble work which rises up to a grand climax. I only know it in its incarnation for brass and organ.
Hmm, that is a piece I am not familiar with and have yet to hear. Sounds like a great one! :)
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 07, 2013, 02:57:03 PM
Hmm, that is a piece I am not familiar with and have yet to hear. Sounds like a great one! :)
Yeah, you'd really like it, Ray! At present, it is probably my favorite Strauss work.
Quote from: kyjo on November 07, 2013, 03:16:16 PM
Yeah, you'd really like it, Ray! At present, it is probably my favorite Strauss work.
Well, I will definitely have to check it out, Kyle! :)
Quote from: kyjo on November 07, 2013, 09:24:28 AM
Right back atcha! ;D I was wrong when I said I hate Strauss' music. That is not the case. I doubt he'll ever be a favorite of mine, but I'm giving him another chance. :)
Well, as long as
you like the music, that's all that matters in the end. Now, if you'll excuse me some Ligeti awaits me. :)
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 07, 2013, 05:21:56 PM
Well, as long as you like the music, that's all that matters in the end. Now, if you'll excuse me some Ligeti awaits me. :)
:)
Listened to Till Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche from the Kempe set just now. The performance is on the quicker side, which benefits this sprightly, vivacious work. I like it! :)
Quote from: kyjo on November 07, 2013, 07:00:24 PM
Listened to Till Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche from the Kempe set just now. The performance is on the quicker side, which benefits this sprightly, vivacious work. I like it! :)
Next try
Don Quixote. I listened to it earlier and wrote about it in the WAYLT thread:
If this piece were a bumper-sticker it'd read:
"I brake for Schoenberg's modernism". Edit out the lyric bits and that's exactly what it'd be!
Great work.
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/b6/2f/352cb2c008a049e265139010.L.jpg)
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 07, 2013, 07:15:38 PM
Next try Don Quixote. I listened to it earlier and wrote about it in the WAYLT thread:
If this piece were a bumper-sticker it'd read: "I brake for Schoenberg's modernism". Edit out the lyric bits and that's exactly what it'd be!
Great work.
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/b6/2f/352cb2c008a049e265139010.L.jpg)
:laugh:
Thanks for the rec!
Quote from: kyjo on November 07, 2013, 07:00:24 PM
Listened to Till Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche from the Kempe set just now. The performance is on the quicker side, which benefits this sprightly, vivacious work. I like it! :)
That is a really fun piece!
Kyle, I smell an avatar change in the near future! :D
Quote from: kyjo on November 07, 2013, 07:00:24 PM
Listened to Till Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche from the Kempe set just now. The performance is on the quicker side, which benefits this sprightly, vivacious work. I like it! :)
How great you're starting to appreciate Strauss'music, Kyle;
Till Eulenspiegels is certainly a marvelous tone poem! :)
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on November 08, 2013, 03:36:25 AM
How great you're starting to appreciate Strauss'music, Kyle; Till Eulenspiegels is certainly a marvelous tone poem! :)
A quick spin around,a puff of smoke and he turns into a Straussian!
Holy mackerel!! ??? :o ;D At this rate I'll turn into Lajtha Man! Well,we'll see....?!! ;)
Meanwhile I'll be listening to my bargain basement Sony cd of Szell conducting Strauss and wallowing in those super dry CBS acoustics! ;D All I'll need is a brillo pad & a bar of soap! (The Kempe concerto disc is in the post! That should cheer me up!)
Looks what happens when I come to appreciate Strauss' music more? I get showered with compliments! ;D
But seriously, thanks for the kind words! My changes of heart about music aren't nearly as extreme as you-know-who's, though! ;)
Quote from: kyjo on November 08, 2013, 07:05:58 AM
Looks what happens when I come to appreciate Strauss' music more? I get showered with compliments! ;D
But seriously, thanks for the kind words! My changes of heart about music aren't nearly as extreme as you-know-who's, though! ;)
Well from saying you, to paraphrase, remain indifferent about R. Strauss and then turning right around to praising his music is very extreme to me, Kyle. But, the fact that you're capable of change, reveals an openness about your listening, which, in the end, benefits you instead of hindering you.
It is pretty clear to me that the answer is 'yes', but I wanted to make double-sure that the Arts Music label 9-disc chamber music series was reissued in its entirety in this Brilliant box:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/915iDPsrUzL._SL1500_.jpg)
Richard Strauss: COMPLETE CHAMBER MUSIC (Brilliant, 9cd)
ASIN: B004W5MNPE
which was, in turn, completely included in Brilliant's big Strauss box:
[asin]B006546EPA[/asin]
Richard Strauss: EDITION (Brilliant, 36cd)
I was weighing the pro/con of getting one or the other. The only thing making me hesitate is already owning the orchestral discs (Kempe), Sinopoli's ARIADNE AUF NAXOS, and the Karajan ROSENKAVALIER.
But that's neither here nor there; I just wanted to make sure there weren't omissions or substitutions among the Arts chamber music recordings. I know almost no chamber music by Strauss.
Quoted from the 'Purchases' thread -
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 18, 2013, 12:07:24 PM
And I bought this for myself:
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B006546EPA.01.L.jpg)
If Kyle can reconsider this man's music so can I! Of course, as a result of buying this massive set, I'll have to figure out what performances I already own in the set and sell those off.
What do you Straussians make of this set? Anyone own it here?
I'm pretty excited about this set even though I already have the Kempe recordings in the set.
Hey, guess what, GMG! It's actually happening! I now have a Strauss avatar! ;D
Quote from: kyjo on November 18, 2013, 04:10:25 PM
Hey, guess what, GMG! It's actually happening! I now have a Strauss avatar! ;D
Damn, you're crazy! ;) :D Who would've thought that both of us are actually enjoying Strauss' music?
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 18, 2013, 04:11:56 PM
Damn, you're crazy! ;) :D Who would've thought that both of us are actually enjoying Strauss' music?
I wouldn't have put it past either of us! ;)
Quote from: kyjo on November 18, 2013, 04:13:06 PM
I wouldn't have put it past either of us! ;)
So true! :D
Quote from: kyjo on November 18, 2013, 04:10:25 PM
Hey, guess what, GMG! It's actually happening! I now have a Strauss avatar! ;D
Hey, Kyle!! :) I called it!! A few weeks ago. :D Well, John still has to change his avatar. :P
Kidding aside, I'm happy you guys are revisiting Strauss' music.
Damn, I want that mega Brilliant Classics Box set. ;D
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 18, 2013, 04:31:42 PM
Hey, Kyle!! :) I called it!! A few weeks ago. :D Well, John still has to change his avatar. :P
Kidding aside, I'm happy you guys are revisiting Strauss' music.
Damn, I want that mega Brilliant Classics Box set. ;D
Well, Delius will be my avatar for awhile now, Ray. As you know, I
love his music. :) So you don't own Kempe's set of Strauss' orchestral works?
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 18, 2013, 04:41:32 PM
Well, Delius will be my avatar for awhile now, Ray. As you know, I love his music. :) So you don't own Kempe's set of Strauss' orchestral works?
John, I
do own that set. It is the only Strauss I currently own. ;D I've sampled a lot of other works and recordings from the library.
I know, I hope you keep the Delius avatar. :)
BTW, I don't think I could ever love Strauss' music, but it certainly is fun revisiting it and getting my head wrapped up in his sound-world again.
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 18, 2013, 04:44:15 PM
John, I do own that set. It is the only Strauss I currently own. ;D I've sampled a lot of other works and recordings from the library.
I know, I hope you keep the Delius avatar. :)
Well this is excellent, Ray. You should consider Karajan's recordings at some point. They're just as masterful as Kempe's.
He's certainly a composer that's full of surprises. Just when you think you're entering into a passage that's completely banal, he breaks that passage wide open with some rather inventive harmonic or melodic idea. I'm thinking here of Burleske, which I'm listening to now. 8)
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 18, 2013, 04:44:39 PM
BTW, I don't think I could ever love Strauss' music, but it certainly is fun revisiting it and getting my head wrapped up in his sound-world again.
My thoughts exactly!
Quote from: kyjo on November 18, 2013, 04:50:47 PM
My thoughts exactly!
Yeah, I merely just
like his music. There are some passages here and there that have impressed me, but it isn't music that conveys much emotional depth. Not that this criteria to judge a piece of music but it does keep me from fully appreciating it.
I think with music we truly love we have to be enchanted on first hearing and I remain rather indifferent to Strauss, but I'll keep my ears open to the music of course.
The bolded text is just the kind of opening thought I needed for my Delius article!
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 18, 2013, 04:49:15 PM
He's certainly a composer that's full of surprises. Just when you think you're entering into a passage that's completely banal, he breaks that passage wide open with some rather inventive harmonic or melodic idea. I'm thinking here of Burleske, which I'm listening to now. 8)
John,
Burleske is a great piece! :) Have you heard
Panathenäenzug, for piano (left hand) and orchestra? Marvelous work also!
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 18, 2013, 04:56:28 PM
John, Burleske is a great piece! :) Have you heard Panathenäenzug, for piano (left hand) and orchestra? Marvelous work also!
It's next up, Ray! :)
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 18, 2013, 04:58:31 PM
It's next up, Ray! :)
Cool!! :) Looking forward to your thoughts (positive or negative) :D
Well my reaction to Panathenäenzug is pretty negative right now as I'm just burnt out on Strauss for awhile. I think one of the problems I have with his music is it just doesn't seduce or entice me in any way. I also get quite tired of his overbearing orchestration. Yes, that's a nice brass line here and some nice string cascades there, but I need more from music. The enchantment just isn't there I'm afraid.
Again, your sentiments closely echo mine, John. I just finished listening to Ein Heldenleben and while I very much like the opening and the battle section, my interest waned in several other parts. If I recall correctly, this was the work that "turned me off" to Strauss in the first place. I wouldn't regard it as one of Strauss' better works and I think the earlier Don Juan is a much more compelling work overall. Up next on the chopping block for me are Eine Alpensinfonie, Symphonia Domestica, and Burleske. I'll be keeping my Strauss avatar unless my reactions to those works are also lukewarm, though.
Quote from: kyjo on November 18, 2013, 05:51:14 PM
Again, your sentiments closely echo mine, John. I just finished listening to Ein Heldenleben and while I very much like the opening and the battle section, my interest waned in several other parts. If I recall correctly, this was the work that "turned me off" to Strauss in the first place. I wouldn't regard it as one of Strauss' better works and I think the earlier Don Juan is a much more compelling work overall. Up next on the chopping block for me are Eine Alpensinfonie, Symphonia Domestica, and Burleske.
I never thought highly of
Ein Heldenleben. I always thought it to be an overall weak work without much going for it. Again, the orchestration is top-notch but just over-the-top as I have found in so much of Strauss' music when I was listening to it years ago. Orchestration doesn't equal quality music. I mean Ravel was a magnificent orchestrator but, while his music can dazzle the listener, there are these moments in his music where a heart seems to be revealed or at least in some fragmentary sound bite, but it's still something to quickly latch onto. With Strauss, on the other hand, I have nothing to latch onto and there aren't many moments where he let his guard down to really let the listener access the music in some way. Of course, this isn't Strauss' fault and these are merely my own shortcomings in regard to listening to his music, but I'm finding myself not being swept away by the music in any way.
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 18, 2013, 05:59:13 PM
I never thought highly of Ein Heldenleben. I always thought it to be an overall weak work without much going for it. Again, the orchestration is top-notch but just over-the-top as I have found in so much of Strauss' music when I was listening to it years ago. Orchestration doesn't equal quality music. I mean Ravel was a magnificent orchestrator but, while his music can dazzle the listener, there are these moments in his music where a heart seems to be revealed or at least in some fragmentary sound bite, but it's still something to quickly latch onto. With Strauss, on the other hand, I have nothing to latch onto and there aren't many moments where he let his guard down to really let the listener access the music in some way. Of course, this isn't Strauss' fault and these are merely my own shortcomings in regard to listening to his music, but I'm finding myself not being swept away by the music in any way.
I hate sounding like a broken record, but you are spot-on, my man! :)
Quote from: kyjo on November 18, 2013, 06:02:10 PM
I hate sounding like a broken record, but you are spot-on, my man! :)
:D
I just cancelled the order for that Strauss Brilliant set. I'm disillusioned about Strauss now. :)
Another thing that bothers me about Strauss, and this maybe just in my own mind and not in anyone else's, but some of the ways he ends musical passages, like for example the slow movement of the Oboe Concerto, is just so cliche sounding. I like musical passages that end in either unexpected ways or ways you didn't think about them ending in. Of course, there are more examples than just the Oboe Concerto, but he wasn't too clever was he? :) Like, for example, I'm listening to Bliss' A Colour Symphony right now and even though many of the harmonies are rather straightforward and by today's standards 'conventional,' he still ends musical passages in different ways, changes things up, and adds some little twists here and there.
I know, I know...I'm just a broken record tonight with my endless parade against Strauss, but I'm merely pointing out things that I'm trying hard to look past, but they're just stopping me in my tracks and irritating me.
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 18, 2013, 08:09:49 PM
...but he wasn't too clever was he? :)
For me there's cleverness to burn...in his operas. Two sets that might prove that to you, MI:
[asin]B000001GMV[/asin]
[asin]B000BM3MO8[/asin]
Ein Heldenleben seems to get a bad rap as people tend to think of it as a bombastic Strauss work. But I think people miss the humor in the work- that the work is mocking the over-the-top Romantic heroism and is full of jokes and ironic drama. I can understand humor being difficult to convey in music, but it is one of the funnest pieces to listen to, for me.
Quote from: Trout on November 18, 2013, 10:10:09 PM
Ein Heldenleben seems to get a bad rap as people tend to think of it as a bombastic Strauss work. But I think people miss the humor in the work- that the work is mocking the over-the-top Romantic heroism and is full of jokes and ironic drama. I can understand humor being difficult to convey in music, but it is one of the funnest pieces to listen to, for me.
It is one of
my favourite of Strauss' symphonic poems. Hearing it performed live was an incredible experience!
Kyle and John,
Thank you for at least appreciating Strauss' music, even though it was here and gone faster than Halley's Comet. :laugh: :)
Cheers my friends. :)
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 19, 2013, 03:06:08 AM
Kyle and John,
Thank you for at least appreciating Strauss' music, even though it was here and gone faster than Halley's Comet. :laugh: :)
Cheers my friends. :)
:D
The polarizing power known as Richard Stauss.
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 19, 2013, 03:04:34 AM
It is one of my favourite of Strauss' symphonic poems. Hearing it performed live was an incredible experience!
Aye, hearing it live at
Symphony was a game-changer.
Quote from: kyjo on November 18, 2013, 05:51:14 PM
. . . I'll be keeping my Strauss avatar unless my reactions to those works are also lukewarm, though.
I still see
Strauss there, so I am guessing you're doing all right.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on November 19, 2013, 04:35:21 AM
:D
The polarizing power known as Richard Stauss.
Certainly. Outside of Wagner, I can't think of another composer who has that degree of polarization effect (being the you either love his music or despize it)? :-\
Quote from: karlhenning on November 19, 2013, 04:40:16 AM
Aye, hearing it live at Symphony was a game-changer.
Any live Strauss, R., for that matter.
I've had the pleasure of attending live performances of:
Ein Heldenleben
Till Eulenspiegel's Merry Pranks
Also Sprach Zarathustra
Death and Transfiguration
Don Juan
Horn Concerto No. 2
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 19, 2013, 05:29:35 AM
Any live Strauss, R., for that matter.
I've had the pleasure of attending live performances of:
Ein Heldenleben
Till Eulenspiegel's Merry Pranks
Also Sprach Zarathustra
Death and Transfiguration
Don Juan
Horn Concerto No. 2
Great lineup, Ray. Especially nice to see the Horn Concerto programmed.
I will see the Oboe Ct. later this year live, along with Metamorphosen which will both be firsts for me.
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 19, 2013, 05:25:04 AM
Certainly. Outside of Wagner, I can't think of another composer who has that degree of polarization effect (being the you either love his music or despize it)? :-\
Wagner and Strauss: love or hate. That's certainly the case in the Rock Haus.
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on November 19, 2013, 05:41:14 AM
Wagner and Strauss: love or hate. That's certainly case in the Rock Haus.
Sarge
:D
Your wife hates both Wagner and Strauss, I gather? ;D
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on November 19, 2013, 05:33:55 AM
Great lineup, Ray. Especially nice to see the Horn Concerto programmed.
I will see the Oboe Ct. later this year live, along with Metamorphosen which will both be firsts for me.
Both the Oboe Concerto and Metamorphosen would be excellent, I'm sure, to hear in live performance.
I am crossing my fingers that one day I will get to attend a live performance of
Eine Alpensinfonie. That would be quite something! :)
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 19, 2013, 05:29:35 AM
Any live Strauss, R., for that matter.
I've had the pleasure of attending live performances of:
Ein Heldenleben
Till Eulenspiegel's Merry Pranks
Also Sprach Zarathustra
Death and Transfiguration
Don Juan
Horn Concerto No. 2
Me, I haven't heard Strauss live very often; Mrs. Rock is not an enthusiastic Straussian and I won't often torture her ;)
Elektra Solti/Covent Garden
Salome Lombard/Opéra national du Rhin
Death and Transfiguration Szell/Cleveland, Tennstedt/Cleveland, Celibidache/SP Rheinland-Pflaz
Also sprach Zarathustra Tennstedt/Cleveland
Oboe Concerto Tennstedt/Mack/Cleveland
Metamorphosen Maazel/Cleveland
Don Juan Maazel/Cleveland
Alpine Symphony Luisi/Dresden
Sarge
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 19, 2013, 05:25:04 AM
Certainly. Outside of Wagner, I can't think of another composer who has that degree of polarization effect (being the you either love his music or despize it)? :-\
I actually find this a stunning statement. Except for a few people on this forum, I don't anyone who doesn't admire or at least respect the works of Richard Strauss. THere are some who feel he made wrong decisions in his personal life, but this has nothing to do with the music.
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 19, 2013, 05:44:29 AM
:D
Your wife hates both Wagner and Strauss, I gather? ;D
She likes
Fliegende Holländer (because it's closer to Weber than later Wagnerian music drama) but I can't think of a single work by Strauss she likes.
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on November 19, 2013, 06:05:25 AM
She likes Fliegende Holländer (because it's closer to Weber than later Wagnerian music drama) but I can't think of a single work by Strauss she likes.
Sarge
Dutchman is fun, and partly because of the transparency of the influences.
Quote from: mc ukrneal on November 19, 2013, 06:04:05 AM
I actually find this a stunning statement. Except for a few people on this forum, I don't anyone who doesn't admire or at least respect the works of Richard Strauss. THere are some who feel he made wrong decisions in his personal life, but this has nothing to do with the music.
Oh, ok. Just my perception, which may be skewed. It just seems that many enjoy Strauss' music, and some loathe it. Not many in betweeners, I find. Again, my perception of members' views on GMG.
Quote from: mc ukrneal on November 19, 2013, 06:04:05 AM
I actually find this a stunning statement. Except for a few people on this forum, I don't anyone who doesn't admire or at least respect the works of Richard Strauss.
+ 1
The readiness of the anti-
Strauss noise here on GMG notwithstanding, his place among the greats has never been a question, and I scarcely find a soul who does not like at least a couple of his pieces. (I'm sure the
Sarge has tried more than a few on
Mrs Rock, with no apparent avail) 0:)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on November 19, 2013, 06:09:56 AM
Drool....
The cast was almost identical to his recording...including Birgit Nilsson. Drool indeed.
Sarge
Quote from: karlhenning on November 19, 2013, 06:08:04 AM
Dutchman is fun, and partly because of the transparency of the influences.
Not just Weber. I heard Marschner's
Der Vampyr recently for the first time. The influence on
Holländer is very obvious.
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on November 19, 2013, 06:05:25 AM
She likes Fliegende Holländer (because it's closer to Weber than later Wagnerian music drama) but I can't think of a single work by Strauss she likes.
Sarge
Here's the cure for that,
Sarge, put this on, turn the volume to 11, and watch the transformation to Strauss-fandom begin....(I get chills when I hear this Bass Trombone)
https://www.youtube.com/v/xK7z2NhUrsQ
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on November 19, 2013, 06:15:57 AM
Not just Weber. I heard Marschner's Der Vampyr recently for the first time. The influence on Holländer is very obvious.
Sarge
Indeed, dear chap. I pluralized
influence for a reason :)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on November 19, 2013, 06:16:18 AM
Here's the cure for that, Sarge, put this on, turn the volume to 11, and watch the transformation to Strauss-fandom begin....(I get chills when I hear this Bass Trombone)
https://www.youtube.com/v/xK7z2NhUrsQ
The first time I heard this piece was live with Mehta conducting the NYPO (when he was head of the orchestra). I wasn't excited to go, because I disliked Mehta (and I knew nothing about the piece). But that concert was one of the most memorable in my life. Not only did they play the heck out of it, but the time seemed to pass so quickly. I was as enthralled as I have ever been at a concert.
Quote from: karlhenning on November 19, 2013, 06:17:26 AM
Indeed, dear chap. I pluralized influence for a reason :)
I missed the s. Old eyes :D
Sarge
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on November 19, 2013, 06:16:18 AM
Here's the cure for that, Sarge, put this on, turn the volume to 11, and watch the transformation to Strauss-fandom begin....(I get chills when I hear this Bass Trombone)
She heard the Staatskapelle Dresden play it. They didn't convince her...and if Dresden (Strauss's own) can't win her over, I doubt any band can :D
Sarge
Quote from: mc ukrneal on November 19, 2013, 06:21:49 AM
The first time I heard this piece was live with Mehta conducting the NYPO (when he was head of the orchestra). I wasn't excited to go, because I disliked Mehta (and I knew nothing about the piece). But that concert was one of the most memorable in my life. Not only did they play the heck out of it, but the time seemed to pass so quickly. I was as enthralled as I have ever been at a concert.
Very cool, Neal!
Mehta has some good Strauss recordings out there, including an Ein Heldenleben with NYP on Sony that's excellent.
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on November 19, 2013, 06:25:58 AM
She heard the Staatskapelle Dresden play it. They didn't convince her...and if Dresden (Strauss's own) can't win her over, I doubt any band can :D
Sarge
And I take it neither the
Vier letzte Lieder nor the
Metamorphosen have won her over?
Quote from: karlhenning on November 19, 2013, 06:28:41 AM
And I take it neither the Vier letzte Lieder nor the Metamorphosen have won her over?
No, they haven't. She simply dislikes his style...in fact, she appreciates very little Late Romantic music that's been influenced by Wagner. If we were living in 1880, she'd be in the Brahms camp.
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on November 19, 2013, 06:34:29 AM
No, they haven't. She simply dislikes his style...in fact, she appreciates very little Late Romantic music that's been influenced by Wagner. If we were living in 1880, she'd be in the Brahms camp.
Is Mrs. Rock an opera fan? Could selling her on "modernist" Strauss such as Elektra make a difference? (That's assuming she likes modernist music).
Quote from: karlhenning on November 19, 2013, 04:41:12 AM
I still see Strauss there, so I am guessing you're doing all right.
I haven't listened to any Strauss since last night! Be patient! :D Tonight will be the night of judgement. >:D
Quote from: Trout on November 18, 2013, 10:10:09 PM
Ein Heldenleben seems to get a bad rap as people tend to think of it as a bombastic Strauss work. But I think people miss the humor in the work- that the work is mocking the over-the-top Romantic heroism and is full of jokes and ironic drama. I can understand humor being difficult to convey in music, but it is one of the funnest pieces to listen to, for me.
Yes, you make a good point. I'm just not overly fond of humor in music, except when incorporated by Shostakovich (well, he utilizes irony, strictly speaking).
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on November 19, 2013, 08:30:19 AM
Is Mrs. Rock an opera fan? Could selling her on "modernist" Strauss such as Elektra make a difference? (That's assuming she likes modernist music).
Yes, she's an opera fan: Baroque (Handel, Rameau), Romantic opera (Weber, Verdi, Dvorak), Puccini. She's seen
Salome in the theater. Did not impress her. She's never shown an interest when I've played
Elektra.
Sarge
To pay homage to Richard Strauss, for his 150th anniversary, the Wiener Philharmoniker has included Mondscheinmusik in the programme of the next Neujahrskonzert. It was an incredible surprise, I would have bet on the waltzes of Der Rosenkavalier, since the concert is dedicated to the viennese waltz. I'm really looking forward to seeing that performance, Mondscheinmusik is an absolutely powerful, passionate work!
An interesting article from The Guardian concerning Richard Strauss and his legacy. Could certainly lead to a debate here on GMG that we've had before.
Click here. Yes, here. Don't be afraid. (http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/jan/16/richard-strauss-voice-concerts-150-anniversary-composer)
Quote from: Mark ElderFrom a conductor's point of view, his scores are brilliantly conceived. The challenge is getting an orchestra to do exactly what he writes in them: but if they do, his music – no matter how dense or rich or complex – just works.
Sounds like genius to me.
Quote from: Steven Isserlis. . . a bath of Mozart . . . .
Now
that is one of the least seemly metaphors I've heard any professional musician use.
Quote from: Steve DavislimI think Strauss's affinity for sopranos (and their voices) was so strong that it led him to try to actively kill his tenors[....]
Oh, I like him better than ever, now.
(
Oh, I kid, I kid.)
Quote from: sanantonio on January 17, 2014, 09:46:47 AM
I will stipulate to Strauss's genius while remaining unable to tolerate his music.
My loss, I'm sure.
:)
Huge loss, huge. ;)
Quote from: karlhenning on January 17, 2014, 09:33:41 AM
Now that is one of the least seemly metaphors I've heard any professional musician use.
Any worse than a shower of Schumann?
The 150th anniversary of Richard Strauss' birth begins with the composer gracing the cover of this months Gramophone magazine. Included are some nice writings about his operas and Strauss as a conductor.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/27/a4ege8um.jpg)
GRAMOPHONE
Richard Strauss's Der Rosenkavalier: which recording is best?
http://www.gramophone.co.uk/features/focus/richard-strausss-der-rosenkavalier-which-recording-is-best
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-YUHSjHlV2Ro/UqB_A8bgCxI/AAAAAAAAHWQ/1tFdkiDMHEo/s1600/KonzerthausMozartSaal.png)
Ionarts-at-Large: Michael Schade, Trumpeteering Song
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2014/02/ionarts-at-large-michael-schade.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2014/02/ionarts-at-large-michael-schade.html)
Andris Nelsons conducts Strauss Also Sprach Zarathustra, Don Juan and Till Eulenspiegel: City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra: Orfeo
A few weeks ago I went to a concert celebrating the Strauss year. One of the London Orchestras was conducted by Lorin Maazel in Also Sprach and The Alpine Symphony. The Philharmonia playing was excellent and there were lots of smiles from them at the end. But I thought it slick and flat. Where were the adrenal rushes you ought to get with these big beasts? The most remarkable thing was Maazel at over 80 standing through both pieces and looking perfectly fresh at the end.
About a year before that I was at the concert where the Nilsons' Also Sprach on the disc listed above was recorded. I was eager to hear the results. On the night I sat in the choir stalls, as I so enjoy watching this conductor communicate with the orchestra. He was sufficiently carried away that he threw the baton across the orchestra at one point. The audience stamped their feet, we knew we had heard something special. The piece made me tingle, he somehow pushed a narrative through it where normally it sounds episodic. The disc does not betray my memories of an exciting and marvellously played concert. He pulls deep sound as though out of the ground and he also provides delicacy.
The other two pieces were recorded at another concert and they also are top of the range for sound and interpretation. The performance tips headlong into the snapshots of Don Juan's activities and the love music is sensational, oboe and horns allowed space to phrase. The Till is, as it should be, full of wit and the inner detail is clear.
I have a fair few versions of the pieces spread across my collection, these ones go to the top for me. The sound is rich, open and close. This completes the main Strauss tone poems for Orfeo, the other discs are just as good. Nelsons is off to Boston shortly. As what will probably be my own farewell for quite some time to hearing him live, i will be at his concert of Rosenkavalier next month. Fingers crossed it is recorded!
Mike
R Strauss: Also Sprach Zarathustra CSO/Reiner
I have been listening to a few of Strauss' tone poems lately. For some reason R Strauss improves every time I listen to his pieces. There was a time when I just could not listen much to him, while nowadays I look forward to his works. Time, the magical ingredient...! Yesterday it was Alpensinfonie and today Zarathustra. In this case I suspect Reiner's CSO has something to do with it. Rich sound indeed!
Could one argue that Strauss appeals differently to different age groups or is that just a wild idea? His pieces just seem so filled with life aspects in the phrasing of the music reaching from joyful intensity to extreme sadness and melancholy. The works also seem more harmonious than I remember. The question in my mind is if this is my imagination or have I somehow turned what I perceived as negative into something different? Has anybody else had this experience with Strauss' music?
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Yq_ksiQfXeY/UkfV5CqohPI/AAAAAAAAFIU/pyCLxFyWFCU/s1600/01.jpg)
Hmm, think it is worthwhile to ponder Strauss' own recordings or would that make us complete Strauss geeks?
Only three of the cds are his own compositions. Definitely precious from a historical perspective.
[asin] B00IERAFTC[/asin]
"THE EDITION
CDs 1-3: Richard Strauss conducting his major works: Ein Heldenleben (recorded 1941), Tod und Verklärung (1926), Don Juan (1929), Don Quixote (1933), Till Eulenspiegel (1927), Dance of the Seven Veils (1928), Rosenkavalier-Waltzes (1927/41) and more!
CD 4: Mozart: Symphonies Nos. 39-41; The Magic Flute Overture (1926-1928)
CD 5: Beethoven: Symphonies Nos. 5 & 7 (1928/26)
CD 6: Overtures by Cornelius, Gluck, Wagner (The Flying Dutchman, Tristan) & Weber (1928)
CD 7: A second, late Don Quixote recording (1941)+ Lieder with Heinrich Schlusnus and Strauss himself at the piano (1921)!
PACKAGING
Capbox
32-page booklet, with a newly commissioned article by Gottfried Kraus the English translation of this is attached
Several historical photos"
And five other more or less recent R Strauss compilations for the thread record:
Reiner's Strauss
[asin] B00HY38NCS[/asin]
[asin] B0042GNDT8[/asin]
Karajan's
[asin] B005C8VQT4[/asin]
and Krauss'
[asin] B00IY372CY[/asin]
Brilliant Classics' mega box
[asin] B006546EPA[/asin]
Warner/EMI Strauss Celebration :)
Orchestral Works w/ Dresden/Kempe ( I think these also can be found in the Brilliant set - not sure if these are more recent remasterings relative to Brilliant)
[asin] B00FJZQRR6[/asin]
Operas
[asin] B00FM60U8E[/asin]
Other Works
[asin] B00GZQJ644[/asin]
Fish, get them all! ;D
Well, do get all of Reiner and Kempe's recordings, they're all wonderfully done.
I've listened to some of Strauss conducting his own works, very good sound considering the date. I will probably pick up that DG set myself here soon. I have so much respect for Strauss that I would love to get everything with the man himself at the helm.
I'm also probably one of the few that doesn't go crazy for all of Karajan's recordings. There are a few that are perfect however (Zarathustra-Berlin, Four Last Songs-Janowitz, Metamorphoson), but there about 7-8 better Alpines and Heldenlebens available.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on May 29, 2014, 10:52:02 AM
Fish, get them all! ;D
Well, do get all of Reiner and Kempe's recordings, they're all wonderfully done.
I've listened to some of Strauss conducting his own works, very good sound considering the date. I will probably pick up that DG set myself here soon. I have so much respect for Strauss that I would love to get everything with the man himself at the helm.
I'm also probably one of the few that doesn't go crazy for all of Karajan's recordings. There are a few that are perfect however (Zarathustra-Berlin, Four Last Songs-Janowitz, Metamorphoson), but there about 7-8 better Alpines and Heldenlebens available.
Greg,
Ha ha!
Buy it all/!?!?! >:( :o ??? 8) Yes, the mailman would kill me. It is bad as it is. I have the main Reiner/CSO box (which I presume has all the same recordings as in this smaller RCA set), the Brilliant set, and the DG opera set. So I am a bit Straussed out ( ::)) . Regardless, that should keep me busy. Things I am pondering (far into the future) are the Solti Strauss opera set and the Warner/EMI opera set. I certainly have enough to listen to. Interesting that Karajan's Strauss is not your thing. Seems like people in general are drawn to them.
Anyways, the historical Strauss recordings somehow tempt me. I love historical recordings!!!! But.... ..... .... .....
Peter
For Greg Sock Dude, and also because I haven't listened to Richard Strauss' music in awhile. :)
Strauss, R.
Till Eulenspiegels Lustige Streiche, Op. 28
Don Juan, Op. 20
Kempe
Staatskapelle Dresden
EMI Classics
[asin]B000026D4K[/asin]
Saturday Morning Strauss! :)
Strauss, R.
Horn Concerto No. 1 in E flat major
Horn Concerto No. 2 in E flat major
Oboe Concerto in D major
Duett-Concertino for Clarinet, Bassoon and Strings
Peter Damm, horn
Mafdred Clement, oboe
Manfred Weise, clarinet
Wolfgang Liebscher, bassoon
Kempe
Staatskapelle Dresden
EMI Classics
[asin]B000026D4K[/asin]
Quote from: ChamberNut on May 31, 2014, 04:59:31 AM
Saturday Morning Strauss! :)
Duett-Concertino for Clarinet, Bassoon and Strings[/font][/b][/i]
This is one of Strauss' most magical works, the musical relationship between the soloists is so delightful. And that's a great recording, I think I'll join you, Ray, can't think of a better piece to start the day on! 8)
Quote from: ChamberNut on May 31, 2014, 04:59:31 AM
Saturday Morning Strauss! :)
Strauss, R.
Horn Concerto No. 1 in E flat major
Horn Concerto No. 2 in E flat major
Oboe Concerto in D major
Duett-Concertino for Clarinet, Bassoon and Strings
Peter Damm, horn
Mafdred Clement, oboe
Manfred Weise, clarinet
Wolfgang Liebscher, bassoon
Kempe
Staatskapelle Dresden
EMI Classics
[asin]B000026D4K[/asin]
So Kempe is your main Strauss "champion", Chambernut? How do his interpretations compare to Reiner and Karajan's?
So what is the opinion from you "Strauss heads" in terms of this very diverse and recent compilation? It seems as there are so many different performers and ensembles living in this set. I am currently mostly listening to Kempe and Reiner's interpretations.
[asin] B00H5DNBHE[/asin]
Quote from: Moonfish on May 31, 2014, 12:51:29 PM
So Kempe is your main Strauss "champion", Chambernut? How do his interpretations compare to Reiner and Karajan's?
Couldn't tell you, Monsieur Poisson. :) I don't own any Reiner or Karajan Strauss' recordings. Kempe is all I have.
Quote from: marvinbrown on March 27, 2008, 02:06:27 AMI'd leave Elektra until the very end as it is in my opinion the most difficult of R. Strauss's operas to absorb. But once it "clicks" it is a real joy to experience.
I know this is 6 year old quote but I would like to say that Elektra was my first Strauss opera and I immediately loved it. However, I agree that maybe you shouldn't start with Elektra. It is very shocking work, to be sure. After that I moved to Salome, which I loved even more, it is my favorite Strauss opera. Now, I haven't heard all of his operas but some neglected late works such as Die liebe der danae really work on me. Now for the part for which I am sure great many people will butcher me. I have only heard rosenkavalier once. And maybe I am just getting tone-deaf but I didn't enjoy it that much. The first act was so boring that I almost fell asleep. It is quite possible I need to hear it again a few times before I learn to appreciate it but it disappoints me a bit because this is often thought to be the one Strauss opera that is easiest to like. In fact, as much as I love Strauss, I often need to hear his works several times before I recognize more than couple melodies here and there and see the relative ease with how he handles orchestra etc. However Strauss is still a composer very close to my heart.
Quote from: Alberich on June 01, 2014, 07:17:55 AM
I know this is 6 year old quote but I would like to say that Elektra was my first Strauss opera and I immediately loved it. However, I agree that maybe you shouldn't start with Elektra. It is very shocking work, to be sure. After that I moved to Salome, which I loved even more, it is my favorite Strauss opera. Now, I haven't heard all of his operas but some neglected late works such as Die liebe der danae really work on me. Now for the part for which I am sure great many people will butcher me. I have only heard rosenkavalier oaged maybe I am just getting tone-deaf but I didn't enjoy it that much. The first act was so boring that I almost fell asleep. It is quite possible I need to hear it again a few times before I learn to appreciate it but it disappoints me a bit because this is often thought to be the one Strauss opera that is easiest to like. In fact, as much as I love Strauss, I often need to hear his works several times before I recognize more than couple melodies here and there and see the relative ease with how he handles orchestra etc. However Strauss is still a composer very close to my heart.
I have found most of Strauss's operas to be text sensitive, demanding a real time knowledge of what is being sung onstage. (Mozart is another, in contrast to others like Wagner and Puccini and early to middle Verdi with whom a general knowledge of the action is sufficient for enjoyment. Late Verdi is like Strauss.). So either have a libretto close at hand or great fluency in German or DVD with subtitles. In my case, Rosenkavalier was a bore until I saw it on DVD (Fleming conducted by Thieleman).
The one and only time I saw rosenkavalier was only couple of weeks ago in opera. Maybe the production was a bad one? I liked the second and third act much more than the first.
Happy 150th Birthday! 8)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on June 11, 2014, 02:36:58 AM
Happy 150th Birthday! 8)
Happy birthday, you cranky old humbug! 8)
The new Thielemann Elektra (out on the 16th) (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Strauss-R-Elektra-Evelyn-Herlitzius/dp/B00JW3OFUM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1402494955&sr=8-1&keywords=thielemann+elektra) is already pre-ordered.
"Richard, go compose!"
(http://37.media.tumblr.com/04371619198658f0cea7d63b6512b67d/tumblr_n2shtpWbhR1t06hqzo1_1280.png)
Happy birthday ol' Dick!
Richard Strauss at 150
pix & concerts he conducted at the Wiener Konzerthaus
(http://konzerthaus.at/magazin/Portals/0/blog_data/Magazine%202014/RichardStrauss/Strauss_Richard_mit_Sohn_600.jpg)
http://konzerthaus.at/magazin/Home/tabid/41/entryid/362/Richard-Strauss-zum-150-Geburtstag.aspx (http://konzerthaus.at/magazin/Home/tabid/41/entryid/362/Richard-Strauss-zum-150-Geburtstag.aspx)
Quote from: EigenUser on June 11, 2014, 06:20:43 AM
"Richard, go compose!"
(http://37.media.tumblr.com/04371619198658f0cea7d63b6512b67d/tumblr_n2shtpWbhR1t06hqzo1_1280.png)
Nee!...he'd rather play
Skat than work.
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 11, 2014, 09:17:27 AM
Nee!...he'd rather play Skat than work.
Sarge
I don't think he's playing Skat in that pic. But he is in one of the ones on the magazine post I put up for the Konzerthaus.
In honor of Richard Strauss' 150th anniversary of his birth I will share my 10 favorite compositions along with my 10 favorite recordings of these works. I guess you could consider it Monkey Greg's Essentials of Strauss. I will post one per day and will include a brief description of why the piece is so meaningful to me and why I chose the particular recording to accompany it.
I will be doing this for two reasons, the first is to generate possible discussion on Strauss and his works. And second is to satisfy my own personal admiration of the composer that I have considered many times over my twenty-plus-years of listening to classical music as my favorite composer. Strauss' music played a large part in my introduction and eventual love of classical music, specifically his tone poems. But don't worry, I won't be picking 10 tone poems to fill my list. ;D
Anyway, please join me, and please feel free to create your own list. And remember that this more about celebrating the composer's career than comparing whose list or which piece is better.
I look forward to beginning my journey later this evening.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 07, 2014, 03:22:19 PM
In honor of Richard Strauss' 150th anniversary of his birth I will share my 10 favorite compositions along with my 10 favorite recordings of these works. I guess you could consider it Monkey Greg's Essentials of Strauss. I will post one per day and will include a brief description of why the piece is so meaningful to me and why I chose the particular recording to accompany it.
I will be doing this for two reasons, the first is to generate possible discussion on Strauss and his works. And second is to satisfy my own personal admiration of the composer that I have considered many times over my twenty-plus-years of listening to classical music as my favorite composer. Strauss' music played a large part in my introduction and eventual love of classical music, specifically his tone poems. But don't worry, I won't be picking 10 tone poems to fill my list. ;D
Anyway, please join me, and please feel free to create your own list. And remember that this more about celebrating the composer's career than comparing whose list or which piece is better.
I look forward to beginning my journey later this evening.
Great idea Greg! Strauss is definitely worth our tribute! 8) :)
(http://www.8notes.com/wiki/images/Strauss_r.jpg)
FLS
Metamorphosen
Various lieder, especially the Dehmel settings, and the later ones
Oboe Concerto, Horn concerto 2
Where is Mirror Image to help me jeer at Monkey's top pick, Alpencerealsinfonie?
>:D >:D
Quote from: Ken B on July 07, 2014, 04:58:00 PM
FLS
Metamorphosen
Various lieder, especially the Dehmel settings, and the later ones
Oboe Concerto, Horn concerto 2
Where is Mirror Image to help me jeer at Monkey's top pick, Alpencerealsinfonie?
>:D >:D
I cast you out, demon! 0:)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 07, 2014, 05:08:15 PM
I cast you out, demon! 0:)
The Frogsorcist? You want to cast out demons you need to go back to a Kinski. ;)
10 Days, 10 Works - of Richard Strauss
1. Stimmungsbilder (Mood pictures) for Piano, Op. 9 (1884)
The earliest piece I will choose is from 1884, the Stimmungsbilder for Piano, Op. 9. The solo piano music of Strauss doesn't seem to make it in the spotlight often, the Op. 5 Piano Sonata has received the most attention, perhaps due to a very nice Glenn Gould recording. But it's the Stimmungsbilder that I feel needs to heard, it's the most comprehensively Romantic and at the same time comfortably enigmatic solo chamber piece from Richard. It's in five movements, beginning with a joyously delightful opening Auf stillem Waldespfad (In Silent Forests), followed by the poetic An einsamer Quelle (Beside the Spring) with its delicate raindrops, then arrives the unexpectedness of the slightly rambunctious Intermezzo. The Träumerei (Dreaming) and its trance like melodies would seem to be the perfect finale to a four movement piano piece, but its the mysterious and darkly toned Heidebild (On the Heath) that brings Stimmungsbilder to a close. Completed the year that Strauss turned 20 years of age, there is plenty of influences to be heard in his Op. 9, although I wouldn't necessarily say that it foreshadows the sounds of Strauss that he became well known for in the near future, to me it looks more into the past than what lies ahead.
There are not as many recordings of Stimmungsbilder to choose from as compared to his tone poems, but the few I've heard are very well done. The Frank Braley performances on Harmonia Mundi demonstrate the beauty and technique of these works wonderfully, and his Stimmungsbilder is breathtaking, specifically in the Heidebild which timed at 5:30 is the slowest I've heard it, as Braley truly focuses on the mystique.
[asin]B0017TZ91I[/asin]
10 Days, 10 Works - of Richard Strauss
2. Sonatina no 1 in F major, AV 135 for 16 Winds "Werkstatt eines Invaliden" (1943)
Strauss created some exhilarating music for winds instruments, with some virtuosic parts in both orchestral works and his various concertos (Horn, Oboe and the Duett-Concertino). In fact, I've always believed that Strauss has provided the Horn with it's best stuff: the two concertos, the shared opening melody to Ein Heldenleben and the multiple-octave ranging solo of Till Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche easily come to mind. He was also a master at furnishing the winds with some of the most intricate counterpoint, delivering an incredibly colorful background. So what better way to demonstrate this wind-writing ability than to give them their own spotlight, which he did in several works ranging from 13 to 16 winds instruments, from a single movement Serenade to a four movement Sonatina lasting almost 40 minutes. My choice of this lot is the Sonatina No. 1 in F Major for 16 Winds, scored for 2 flutes, 2 oboes, 3 clarinets, basset horn, bass clarinet, 2 bassoons, contrabasson and 4 horns, composed in 1943. Its three movement structure feels like a tiny symphony, with a lovely Romance and Minuet surrounded by two hastier and heftier ones that seem to be quite the challenge for the performers. There is some obvious Mozart influence going on in this Sonatina for winds, but it's the vibrant flair of Strauss' style that is on full display here along with some of the most pleasant and animated music from his oeuvre.
I feel confident in saying that the best performance of the Sonatina No. 1, and the rest of Strauss' music for winds is from the Netherlands Wind Ensemble conducted by Edo de Waart. Perfectly balanced, spirited and with clear sound quality so that no voice is hidden. A bonus of this disc is also getting Heinz Holliger's masterful recording of the Oboe Concerto with de Waart and New Philharmonia Orchestra backing him up.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41B810260WL._SX350_.jpg)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 08, 2014, 06:37:04 PM
2. Sonatina no 1 in F major, AV 135 for 16 Winds "Werkstatt eines Invaliden" (1943)
+1. I love the two Sonatinas, although the version I have is a DG disc with members of the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra (haven't heard the Philips disc). It's refreshing to read about some of the out-of-the-way works of Strauss. When you said you'd be writing about more than just the tone poems you weren't kidding. :)
(Hope it's okay to post alternative recordings).
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/dc/5f/1128820dd7a0363c93f3f010.L.jpg)
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on July 08, 2014, 08:29:46 PM
+1. I love the two Sonatinas, although the version I have is a DG disc with members of the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra (haven't heard the Philips disc). It's refreshing to read about some of the out-of-the-way works of Strauss. When you said you'd be writing about more than just the tone poems you weren't kidding. :)
(Hope it's okay to post alternative recordings).
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/dc/5f/1128820dd7a0363c93f3f010.L.jpg)
You risk the return of
the frogsorcist.
Quote from: Ken B on July 08, 2014, 08:31:29 PM
You risk the return of the frogsorcist.
The discussion is on so please do us a favor and blow.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on July 08, 2014, 08:39:12 PM
The discussion is on so please do us a favor and blow.
Mr
Good Taste Arbiter speaks.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on July 08, 2014, 08:29:46 PM
+1. I love the two Sonatinas, although the version I have is a DG disc with members of the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra (haven't heard the Philips disc). It's refreshing to read about some of the out-of-the-way works of Strauss. When you said you'd be writing about more than just the tone poems you weren't kidding. :)
(Hope it's okay to post alternative recordings).
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/dc/5f/1128820dd7a0363c93f3f010.L.jpg)
I was hoping to generate discussion by posting these works/recordings, so yes, thank you, DD! ;D
And my alternate recording of choice of the Sonatinas is in fact the Orpheus CO, it's a truly great disc. I'm also of fan of just about everything the Orpheus CO has released, which includes another Strauss disc featuring Le Bourgeois Gentilhomme.
Quote from: Ken B on July 08, 2014, 08:31:29 PM
You risk the return of the frogsorcist.
Don't make me get off this lily pad, Ken.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 09, 2014, 01:35:05 AM
I'm also of fan of just about everything the Orpheus CO has released, which includes another Strauss disc featuring Le Bourgeois Gentilhomme.
Oh, I had known about that disc at one time but completely forgot about it. Thanks for mentioning it. Will investigate.
10 Days, 10 Works - of Richard Strauss
3. Elektra (1908)
This opera is scary. Everything about this opera is scary. The music, and subject matter.... scary. Even the demands on the orchestra and soprano lead are scary. Yep, scary.
Wait, you do know that scary in this context means good, right? ;D
Strauss' expressionistic masterpiece is filled with soaring melodies, dissonance and blood, lots of blood. The brute strength of the music and singing never seems to slow down, or let up until the powerful final bars. I find myself quite exhausted when Elektra ends, but I'm also always completely amazed at the experience. It always feels to me like Strauss' most modern sounding piece.
I find myself listening to Ariadne auf Naxos more than any other opera from Strauss, it's like listening to a 2-hour love song, its lovely. And no scene is as bizarrely brilliant than Salome proclaiming her love to a severed head right before kissing it. But Elektra is a true one of a kind, it's Strauss at his most fierce.
I don't collect as many recordings of operas than I do for orchestral or chamber works. Currently the operas I own the most recordings of is Wozzeck with 4, then Magic Flute, Purcell's Dido & Aeneas and Monteverdi's Orfeo all at 3. And at the moment I only own, or have even listened to, one recording of Elektra, the 1967 performance with Solti/Wiener and Birgit Nilsson in the title role. So my choice of recording is a little biased, but this one seems to get positive critique by close to everyone. I love this Elektra, although I would love to hear more at some point.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61V3FEzdMNL._SY350_.jpg)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 09, 2014, 07:05:46 PM
It always feels to me like Strauss' most modern sounding piece.
Yes, agree. Quite an ambitious work. Its modernist edges are sharp and I really enjoy its many flashes of uncertainty.
QuoteI love this Elektra, although I would love to hear more at some point.
This is bound to be one of those works where everyone under the sun will have a favorite recording. I've seen it live once and I've owned two recordings: Böhm (DG) and Bychkov (Profil). Unfortunately Böhm's just got the boot though...couldn't take the nonexistent orchestra (bad recording). A work this complex needs all its parts audible for maximum impact.
Bychkov is my main man now. Everything comes together nicely: singing, pacing, structure, edginess, and a walloping orchestral presence. Absolute success on every level.
[asin]B000BM3MO8[/asin]
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on July 09, 2014, 09:40:22 PM
Yes, agree. Quite an ambitious work. Its modernist edges are sharp and I really enjoy its many flashes of uncertainty.
This is bound to be one of those works where everyone under the sun will have a favorite recording. I've seen it live once and I've owned two recordings: Böhm (DG) and Bychkov (Profil). Unfortunately Böhm's just got the boot though...couldn't take the nonexistent orchestra (bad recording). A work this complex needs all its parts audible for maximum impact.
Bychkov is my main man now. Everything comes together nicely: singing, pacing, structure, edginess, and a walloping orchestral presence. Absolute success on every level.
[asin]B000BM3MO8[/asin]
Great, DD! I was hoping for new recs. I actually don't think I have anything from Bychkov in my collection, perhaps a shostakovich symphony, but this one looks good, I will search for it.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on July 09, 2014, 09:40:22 PM
Bychkov is my main man now. Everything comes together nicely: singing, pacing, structure, edginess, and a walloping orchestral presence. Absolute success on every level.
I saw
Elektra at Covent Garden in 1972, Solti conducting essentially the same cast as on the recording. For that reason alone, Solti will always occupy a special place in my collection. And really, I've never felt the need for another. It just seems perfect, from the conducting and cast to Culshaw's production. But the Bychkov is intriguing. I didn't think anyone could surpass Kempe's
Lohengrin but damn if Bychkov didn't do it. For that reason, and for your comments, DD, I'm seriously considering his
Elektra.
Sarge
I'm grossly underexposed to Strauss, so this "10 days, 10 works" is a great help & motivation for me to listen to more - thanks, Greg. :)
I liked the first two works a lot, particularly Stimmungsbilder - and the Piano Sonata, too. I've been meaning to hear the operas for a looong time, and am now listening to Elektra for the first time on Youtube, and enjoying it so far. (Sinopoli & VPO, 1997 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb-9mWwxoPc))
Quote from: North Star on July 10, 2014, 05:04:15 AM
I'm grossly underexposed to Strauss, so this "10 days, 10 works" is a great help & motivation for me to listen to more - thanks, Greg. :)
I liked the first two works a lot, particularly Stimmungsbilder - and the Piano Sonata, too. I've been meaning to hear the operas for a looong time, and am now listening to Elektra for the first time on Youtube, and enjoying it so far. (Sinopoli & VPO, 1997 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb-9mWwxoPc))
You're welcome,
Karlo! And thank you for joining in. Please let us know your thoughts on what you listen to.
If you can ever get a hold of this Salome, either on DVD or Blu-Ray, do check it out! Riveting performance by Ewing. The video quality isn't the greatest, but the performances are amazing.
[asin]B00005RIXS[/asin]
Quote from: ChamberNut on July 10, 2014, 05:22:01 AM
If you can ever get a hold of this Salome, either on DVD or Blu-Ray, do check it out! Riveting performance by Ewing. The video quality isn't the greatest, but the performances are amazing.
[asin]B00005RIXS[/asin]
Tempting....
How does it compare with the Stratas/Varnay/Böhm?
[asin] B000NVL49W[/asin]
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 10, 2014, 04:35:52 AM
Great, DD! I was hoping for new recs. I actually don't think I have anything from Bychkov in my collection, perhaps a shostakovich symphony, but this one looks good, I will search for it.
I don't have much Bychkov either - just this
Elektra and (ironically) another Strauss disc of tone poems - but to me they both "get the job done". :)
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 10, 2014, 04:55:00 AM
I saw Elektra at Covent Garden in 1972, Solti conducting essentially the same cast as on the recording. For that reason alone, Solti will always occupy a special place in my collection. And really, I've never felt the need for another. It just seems perfect, from the conducting and cast to Culshaw's production. But the Bychkov is intriguing. I didn't think anyone could surpass Kempe's Lohengrin but damn if Bychkov didn't do it. For that reason, and for your comments, DD, I'm seriously considering his Elektra.
Sarge
:)
I wish I could be more helpful as far as comparisons but I've never heard Solti's recording w/Nilsson. Though I can take a pretty good stab at it and say that, in the role of Elektra, Polaski won't match Nilsson in the, umm..."vocal projectionist" department. ;D But that poses no problem for me. I like Nilsson but, cards on the table, I've never really found a way to love her.
One other thing that might help is the Böhm I just very recently parted with had issues with its sound. There just wasn't much presence. The vocals were fine but the orchestra sounded like it needed a major caffeine boost (inadequately recorded). So there's a chance my impression of Bychkov is somewhat skewed since the Böhm just never caught fire like I thought it should.
But honestly I don't feel that's the case. I have plenty of other Strauss opera recordings and the big name conductors are well represented: Solti, Sawallisch, Kempe, Haitink, another Böhm (this time a rousing success), etc...and to me Bychkov settles in nicely with this company.
Quote from: Moonfish on July 10, 2014, 10:40:52 AM
Tempting....
How does it compare with the Stratas/Varnay/Böhm?
[asin] B000NVL49W[/asin]
Sorry,
Poisson de Lune, I cannot comment as I have not seen this production. :)
And I now realize I need to apologize for crashing Greg's Strauss countdown. Resume talking about Elektra. Sorry, Greg. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Quote from: ChamberNut on July 10, 2014, 01:27:57 PM
And I now realize I need to apologize for crashing Greg's Strauss countdown. Resume talking about Elektra. Sorry, Greg. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
No, Ray, this is what I wanted, discussions on Richard Strauss' music and recordings. I'm just giving my own "10 works" list but was hoping others would either do the same or something similar, or at least comment on my posts. Stay, Ray, stay! 8)
;D
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 10, 2014, 01:31:31 PM
No, Ray, this is what I wanted, discussions on Richard Strauss' music and recordings. I'm just giving my own "10 works" list but was hoping others would either do the same or something similar, or at least comment on my posts. Stay, Ray, stay! 8)
;D
:) OK. ;D
The burning question I have is: Is Richard Strauss your favourite composer? :) 8)
10 Days, 10 Works - of Richard Strauss
4. Don Quixote, Op. 35 (1897)
One of the three orchestral tone poems that makes my list is possibly Strauss' most literal sounding. The overall structure of Quixote is fascinating, presented in a theme and variation form with a solo cello representing the title character. This soloist, although plays the major role of this program, is actually part of an intricate score that includes other characters like his squire Sancho Panza (played by a solo viola) and amazingly orchestrated events that incorporate tongue-fluttering brass as sheep and a powerful wind machine for Don's ride through the air. It's a brilliant musical journey that is just as fantastically scored and composed as the protagonist's fantasies, the story seamlessly jumps out from the music.
Quixote is very well represented on disc. Cellists Rostropovich, Starker, Janigro and Ma and conductors Karajan, Reiner and Kempe all creating indispensable performances. I do mean it when I say there are about a dozen recordings of this piece you can't go wrong with. So I'm going out on a limb here, and risk backlash, by making my rec one of the newer recordings of Quixote, 2013 to be exact.
Cellist Alban Gerhardt along with Markus Stenz conducting the Cologne Gürzenich Orchestra offer an impeccable reading here, with an added bonus of having Lawrence Power on viola. But what really shines with this one is the glorious recording quality done by Hyperion. All the detail is present, the music is transparent with the players in close up. This is one of those discs that make you glad you spent that extra $$ on headphones. The Cologne Gürzenich Orchestra perform superbly, staying behind the lead characters when needed but in superiorly tight form when Strauss' gives them moments to shine.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61j0ihJdznL._SS350_.jpg)
Quote from: ChamberNut on July 10, 2014, 01:34:59 PM
The burning question I have is: Is Richard Strauss your favourite composer? :) 8)
I've definitely given Strauss that title more than any other composer in the past. Strauss' music is a big reason why I began listening to classical music, and still do to this day. It's very personal occasions when I listen to his music as I've have been for so long now and it has created some great memories, both in seeing some of these performed live or the music just relating to something in my life.
I had Ozawa's Elektra, and never liked it. Just no enjoyment from that set, ever. I eventually sold it rather than just keep reinforcing my dislike. I heatd some of Sinopoli and it seemed quite good. But it's an opera I have avoided.
I am thinking of getting Spotify premium. This would be a good thing to spotify. They have the Profil ...
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 10, 2014, 06:11:42 PM
I've definitely given Strauss that title more than any other composer in the past. Strauss' music is a big reason why I began listening to classical music, and still do to this day. It's very personal occasions when I listen to his music as I've have been for so long now and it has created some great memories, both in seeing some of these performed live or the music just relating to something in my life.
That is wonderful, Greg! :)
Since you posted Don Quixote, now my mind wanders as to what your other two favourite symphonic poems. I can't really guess, I'll just have to wait for the results! :)
Quote from: ChamberNut on July 11, 2014, 06:37:52 AM
That is wonderful, Greg! :)
Since you posted Don Quixote, now my mind wanders as to what your other two favourite symphonic poems. I can't really guess, I'll just have to wait for the results! :)
His favorite is Alpen. Nobody's perfect.
:)
Quote from: Ken B on July 11, 2014, 06:49:05 AM
Nobody's perfect.
(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/4207219712/h8FE7F463/)
Quote from: Ken B on July 11, 2014, 06:49:05 AM
His favorite is Alpen. Nobody's perfect.
:)
Here's to imperfections, as Alpen is my favourite also. :)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 11, 2014, 06:56:48 AM
(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/4207219712/h8FE7F463/)
:D
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 10, 2014, 06:07:44 PM
Quixote is very well represented on disc. Cellists Rostropovich, Starker, Janigro and Ma and conductors Karajan, Reiner and Kempe all creating indispensable performances. I do mean it when I say there are about a dozen recordings of this piece you can't go wrong with. So I'm going out on a limb here, and risk backlash, by making my rec one of the newer recordings of Quixote, 2013 to be exact.
Cellist Alban Gerhardt along with Markus Stenz conducting the Cologne Gürzenich Orchestra offer an impeccable reading here, with an added bonus of having Lawrence Power on viola. But what really shines with this one is the glorious recording quality done by Hyperion. All the detail is present, the music is transparent with the players in close up. This is one of those discs that make you glad you spent that extra $$ on headphones. The Cologne Gürzenich Orchestra perform superbly, staying behind the lead characters when needed but in superiorly tight form when Strauss' gives them moments to shine.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61j0ihJdznL._SS350_.jpg)
Hard to compete with the best recording. :) But I'll take a stab at it: I have Kempe's first recording w/ the Berlin Philharmonic and Paul Tortelier on cello. Great early stereo sound (1958) that - for a stretch - only EMI could conjure up.
As far as the piece, well, again, I'm also a big fan. I've always found it interesting that Strauss's intention for this work was for cellists of international fame to lay off the piece, instead preferring a cellist plucked straight from the orchestra. The exact reasoning for this eludes me.
This is the version I have (OOP) but I believe it's also currently available on Testament:
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/b6/2f/352cb2c008a049e265139010.L.jpg)
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on July 11, 2014, 05:29:28 PM
Hard to compete with the best recording. :) But I'll take a stab at it: I have Kempe's first recording w/ the Berlin Philharmonic and Paul Tortelier on cello. Great early stereo sound (1958) that - for a stretch - only EMI could conjure up.
As far as the piece, well, again, I'm also a big fan. I've always found it interesting that Strauss's intention for this work was for cellists of international fame to lay off the piece, instead preferring a cellist plucked straight from the orchestra. The exact reasoning for this eludes me.
This is the version I have (OOP) but I believe it's also currently available on Testament:
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/b6/2f/352cb2c008a049e265139010.L.jpg)
That's one I haven't heard,
DD. It looks like Regis Records has released it, $5.99 on iTunes and a few low-priced used copies on AMAZON.COM (http://www.amazon.com/Don-Quixote-Strauss/dp/B004UVCPS0/ref=sr_1_7?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1405128896&sr=1-7&keywords=strauss+kempe+quixote)
Thanks for the rec!
Edit: Also available on Spotify, which I now have spinning. :)
Re Strauss's intentions with the cello...I often feel on this work that the soloists need to blend with the orchestra....that this is not really a concertante work but simply a tone poem in which two first chairs have very important solo responsibilities.
And, no, I have no favorite recording.
10 Days, 10 Works - of Richard Strauss
5. Morgen from Lieder (4), Op. 27, no 4; and Im Abendrot from Four Last Songs
Ok, so I waited until my 5th day to cheat a little, but there's a tie, I promise it's a good tie.
Strauss composed many lovely and potent songs, and I believe these two represent the best of the lot. The first is titled Morgen and is the fourth from a set of four songs composed in 1894 (Op. 27) with the text taken from a poem of the same name by John Henry Mackay. It's possibly the sweetest four minutes Strauss ever composed, the vocal line is simply expressed over the gentle music. The other song in this tie is Im Abendrot, composed in 1948 along with three other songs that were later joined together, not by the composer himself, to form Four Last Songs. Im Abendrot takes its text from Joseph von Eichendorff and deals with death as its subject matter, Strauss even quotes his own tone poem Death and Transfiguration (1889) here as soon as the vocalist finishes singing. This is known as one of Strauss' final compositions as he died the following year. Where Morgen might be the sweetest, Im Abendrot is the most dramatic, its full of emotions.
For Morgen I choose Kiri Te Kanawa, I think her voice is perfect for this piece. I slightly prefer the orchestral version over the piano version, mainly for the sustained strings, but the song is beautiful in any form. Te Kanawa has a great recording on Sony with Andrew Davis/LSO. For Im Abendrot there's only one for me, Jessye Norman, in particular the performance on Phillips with Masur. It's the longest Im Abendrot I've heard at 10:00 minutes (the closest I have is Lucia Popp/Tennstedt at 8:24, which is also a special performance). But by stretching this tempo out and letting Norman's voice slowly soar really emphasizes a real lyrical sorrow.
I couldn't find the Sony recording of Te Kanawa, but I will link a later recording she did with Solti at the piano.
http://www.youtube.com/v/v4EHy4BhbU4 http://www.youtube.com/v/envQ-ZqGQu8
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 11, 2014, 06:37:02 PM
5. Morgen from Lieder (4), Op. 27, no 4; and Im Abendrot from Four Last Songs
More great choices. I have both of these songs in versions for both piano and orchestra. The three versions of
Morgen I have range from 3:35, to 3:55, to 4 minutes square. Interestingly the one at 3:35 doesn't seem rushed at all.
Most of my Strauss songs are with orchestral accompaniment but his piano originals are equally good to me as I've always thought his piano writing had a natural flair. Makes me wish he'd have written more for solo piano.
What I have:
[asin]B000062TDA[/asin]
[asin]B00000I92W[/asin]
[asin]B000PMFTDQ[/asin]
This series and discussion is great, thanks for it. I just received direction to the Norman and Te Kanawa recordings like 24 hours ago, from another online acquaintance. (I know and love the former but haven't checked out the latter yet.)
There are big chunks of Strauss that I've never heard at all, cf. a lot of the chamber music and lieder. Several operas.
Psyched to follow these leads.
10 Days, 10 Works - of Richard Strauss
6. Ein Heldenleben (1898)
The first orchestral tone poem I chose was Quixote as I feel it's Strauss' most literal of them all, ripped right from the pages of Cervantes story. The second is what I believe to be his most personal and intimate telling of an individual. A tale of one whos identity was never truly revealed, and that is if there ever was someone in mind. Some critics and listeners might have felt that Ein Heldenleben is about the composer himself, Strauss at times had claimed it did not represent him. Whether Strauss was being sincere about this battle with critics or creating a joke or mockery of the subject may not be completely clear, but the fact that the composer quotes himself many times in The Hero's Work of Peace section could lead one to conclude that he might be representing the Hero in some, if not all aspects. Symphonia Domestica, one of the most brilliantly constructed pieces from Strauss, might contain a more comprehensible look into his personal life, but to me the music of Heldenleben suggests otherwise.
Time for me to get personal...I hold a special place for Ein Heldenleben, not only was Strauss one of my first great loves of classical music, but it was this piece that really opened the door to a whole new universe. It was from here that I ventured out to other works, composers, and other genres. Heldenleben has it all, brawn, spirit and purpose. It's also gloriously orchestrated, with every instrument receiving ample time in the splotlight, including what I find to be the greatest violin solo from an orchestral piece. And my goodness, those horns, all 8 of them! I could go on and on, and maybe one day I will.
Time to cheat...I have two three recordings for this one, and a good reason for it. Ein Heldenleben is a tough work to shape from beginning to end, with its off centered six-movement structure any wrong choice interpretively and the work can easily drag or lose its emotional core. The best shaping of Heldenleben belongs to Kempe, his 1972 recording with the Dresden Staatskapelle on EMI from end to end is perfectly presented with all the movements tying together seamlessly, no wasted space here, although the Battle could've used a bit more from the lower brass, it is missing that extra bite. Blomstedt and the San Francisco S.O.(1992) demonstrate the most precise playing found on any Strauss recording. It's crisp, powerful and lean in tempos without losing any of its beauty, also in incredible sound quality. This Blomstedt/SFS is one of my most played discs. The last goes to the first recording of this piece I heard, and still a personal favorite, Mehta's 1983 disc with the NYP. At times it sounds like Mehta has double the orchestra, the sound is huge and warm, just the right kind of atmosphere this epic piece shines with. Plus Mehta is very crafty with the music's climaxes, he tends to get his head out the score more often, and this results in some commanding moments.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51QLA9oQSjL._SS350_.jpg) (http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/b8/06/9c39225b9da07786d89cc010.L._SS350_.jpg) (http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/f4/a4/4945d250fca0c38347702010.L._SY350_.jpg)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 12, 2014, 08:08:57 PM
10 Days, 10 Works - of Richard Strauss
6. Ein Heldenleben (1898)
*pounds the table!* :)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 10, 2014, 06:07:44 PM
10 Days, 10 Works - of Richard Strauss
4. Don Quixote, Op. 35 (1897)
I don't remember now which recording I listened to (on YouTube), or who the performers were.. Still, enjoyed it very much. I'm fairly sure I heard this piece a bit over a year ago, when
Daniel (
madaboutmahler) recommended me some Strauss pieces to listen to.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 11, 2014, 06:37:02 PM
10 Days, 10 Works - of Richard Strauss
5. Morgen from Lieder (4), Op. 27, no 4; and Im Abendrot from Four Last Songs
This must be the
Strauss I know best. Norman & Masur on YouTube in 4, a superb performance indeed! Isokoski & Janowski for
Morgen.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 12, 2014, 08:08:57 PM
10 Days, 10 Works - of Richard Strauss
6. Ein Heldenleben (1898)
Good stuff, listened to Kempe & Dresden on YouTube
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 12, 2014, 08:08:57 PM
10 Days, 10 Works - of Richard Strauss
6. Ein Heldenleben (1898)
Hearing this work performed live several years ago was a revelation, a tremendous experience, that sparked my interest in Richard Strauss' music.
Quote from: North Star on July 13, 2014, 05:58:38 AM
I don't remember now which recording I listened to (on YouTube), or who the performers were.. Still, enjoyed it very much. I'm fairly sure I heard this piece a bit over a year ago, when Daniel (madaboutmahler) recommended me some Strauss pieces to listen to.This must be the Strauss I know best. Norman & Masur on YouTube in 4, a superb performance indeed! Isokoski & Janowski for Morgen.
Good stuff, listened to Kempe & Dresden on YouTube
Quixote might be the best represented tone poem on disc of Strauss'. I've heard some bad Heldenlebens, Alpines and Zarathustra recordings, but I don't recall any truly bad perdormances of Quixote. A real good lot to choose from.
And +1 for the Isokoski & Janowski. The link that DD provided above shows some inexpensive used copied available.
Quote from: ChamberNut on July 13, 2014, 06:32:35 AM
Hearing this work performed live several years ago was a revelation, a tremendous experience, that sparked my interest in Richard Strauss' music.
Who performed it, Ray?
I saw it years ago with Philiadelphia Orchestra (can't remember conductor, perhaps Dutoit since he was the director of the P.O summer concerts at Mann Music Center) but it was great. The Atlanta SO is performing Heldenleben this upcoming season, I will be attending for sure.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 13, 2014, 06:58:05 AM
Who performed it, Ray?
I saw it years ago with Philiadelphia Orchestra (can't remember conductor, perhaps Dutoit since he was the director of the P.O summer concerts at Mann Music Center) but it was great. The Atlanta SO is performing Heldenleben this upcoming season, I will be attending for sure.
My local band. Winnipeg Symphony Orchestra, conducting by Alexander Mickelthwate. :)
Quote from: ChamberNut on July 13, 2014, 07:03:47 AM
My local band. Winnipeg Symphony Orchestra, conducting by Alexander Mickelthwate. :)
Very cool, Ray! 8)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 13, 2014, 06:58:05 AMAnd +1 for the Isokoski & Janowski. The link that DD provided above shows some inexpensive used copied available.
Unfortunately I have it already ;)
10 Days, 10 Works - of Richard Strauss
7. Duet-Concertino for Clarinet, Bassoon, Strings and Harp (1947)
If there is one piece of music composed by Strauss where the term magical could be used as the primary description, its with the Duet-Concertino. Another masterpiece composed late in the composer's life that has a strong focus on winds, Oboe Concerto and two Sonatinas being the others. There have been different stories or influences connected to this piece told by Strauss, but regardless of which one is true or even if there was a planned program, the Duet-Concertino sounds like a beautiful allegory of some sort of sublime tale of life or love. The conversations in this music between the Clarinet and Bassoon are playful and exuberant, as these two instruments make a great combo. And again, similar to the Sonatina for Winds, there is some obvious admiration for Mozart as Strauss produces an almost neoclassical tone with this piece.
And yes, I'm being truthful with my choice being Paavo Jarvi ("Peek-a-Boo, It's me, Paavo)". This is not only a fantastic performance of the Duet-Concertino, but it's a great disc all around with flawless playing form the German Chamber Philharmonic Bremen. This one easily makes a short list of "must-have" discs for Strauss fans.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51SmIwx45PL._SX350_.jpg)
Quote from: ChamberNut on July 13, 2014, 07:03:47 AM
My local band. Winnipeg Symphony Orchestra, conducting by Alexander Mickelthwate. :)
Heard them today do Brahms 1 and the Khatch VC with Ehnes. Impressive.
(For outside Ontario I mean :laugh: >:D)
Ein Heldenleben is a work I absolutely love...for about four-and-a-half movements. The modernistic tendencies of the first four movements hit all the right buttons in me and I'm totally engrossed. The Battle is expertly crafted, and it's the one movement I'd most expect the schmaltz-o-meter to rocket off the charts. ;D But it doesn't. It's a genuine treat.
About midway through the Works of Peace - at about the point where the triangle chimes just a single time (which is a fantastic touch, btw!) - I feel the piece begins to deflate somewhat. Yes it's post-battle and a winding down of the Hero's life but I can't quite escape the feeling that as the Works of Peace progresses there's just a little too much emphasis on creating a persona of the Hero as a sort of "last great hope" type of guy - completely alone against the forces of strife. Which is ironic I suppose as that's just the type of spotlighting I'd expect in the Battle (which rocks).
Retirement comes and by now I get the sense the music is little more than padding, padding for the retiree, I suppose. ;D (Sorry). Then the final measures come which without question have been tailor-made to play up our Hero as best thing since sliced bread: gleaming music which sounds as if it's been plucked straight from Parsifal!! What an effect! Can't help but love it. Herr Strauss the enigma.
(I will definitely keep trying on those last two movements. The work is worth it.)
[asin]B00008GQFI[/asin]
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/29/c8/b63181b0c8a097d4ddef8110.L.jpg)
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on July 13, 2014, 08:37:50 PM
Ein Heldenleben is a work I absolutely love...for about four-and-a-half movements. The modernistic tendencies of the first four movements hit all the right buttons in me and I'm totally engrossed. The Battle is expertly crafted, and it's the one movement I'd most expect the schmaltz-o-meter to rocket off the charts. ;D But it doesn't. It's a genuine treat.
About midway through the Works of Peace - at about the point where the triangle chimes just a single time (which is a fantastic touch, btw!) - I feel the piece begins to deflate somewhat. Yes it's post-battle and a winding down of the Hero's life but I can't quite escape the feeling that as the Works of Peace progresses there's just a little too much emphasis on creating a persona of the Hero as a sort of "last great hope" type of guy - completely alone against the forces of strife. Which is ironic I suppose as that's just the type of spotlighting I'd expect in the Battle (which rocks).
Retirement comes and by now I get the sense the music is little more than padding, padding for the retiree, I suppose. ;D (Sorry). Then the final measures come which without question have been tailor-made to play up our Hero as best thing since sliced bread: gleaming music which sounds as if it's been plucked straight from Parsifal!! What an effect! Can't help but love it. Herr Strauss the enigma.
(I will definitely keep trying on those last two movements. The work is worth it.)
[asin]B00008GQFI[/asin]
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/29/c8/b63181b0c8a097d4ddef8110.L.jpg)
Great comment, DD. The musical shifts that this piece takes are quite drastic at times, and being one continuous 45-minute makes it a challenge for the listener, I think you touched upon the most challenging part of Heldenleben so I do understand your observation.
Again with a Bychkov rec, I did notice though that this and his Elektra were on Spotify, will have to put them both of them in my list. And the Dohnanyi/Cleveland is a good one. 8)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 13, 2014, 07:39:49 PM
10 Days, 10 Works - of Richard Strauss
7. Duet-Concertino for Clarinet, Bassoon, Strings and Harp (1947)
It is a very moving piece. In my favourite 10 as well. :)
Quote from: ChamberNut on July 14, 2014, 02:46:39 AM
It is a very moving piece. In my favourite 10 as well. :)
Good morning, Ray!
Quote from: Ken B on July 13, 2014, 08:30:58 PM
Heard them today do Brahms 1 and the Khatch VC with Ehnes. Impressive.
(For outside Ontario I mean :laugh: >:D)
Excellent, glad you enjoyed the performance
Ken! :)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 14, 2014, 01:28:54 AM
Great comment, DD. The musical shifts that this piece takes are quite drastic at times, and being one continuous 45-minute makes it a challenge for the listener, I think you touched upon the most challenging part of Heldenleben so I do understand your observation.
Again with a Bychkov rec, I did notice though that this and his Elektra were on Spotify, will have to put them both of them in my list. And the Dohnanyi/Cleveland is a good one. 8)
Thanks, GS. Yeah, I wouldn't miss the rest of the work for anything, last movement-and-a-half be hanged. Bychkov is more on the steely side compared to Dohnanyi, more modernist. But I love it.
10 days, 10 works continuing on later this evening, perhaps Ken should look away from this one ::)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 14, 2014, 05:22:48 PM
10 days, 10 works continuing on later this evening, perhaps Ken should look away from this one ::)
I can handle it. If I survived
Sarge, Rap Fan Extraordinaire I can survive your weakness for bombast! >:D
Anticipating Alpencereal, I liked it more when I was younger, but it really only has a couple moments, doesn't it? Even back when the tone poems were staples chez B I preferred D&T or ASZ. (Still do: shorter :) )
I'm enjoying the series though.
Quote from: Ken B on July 14, 2014, 05:52:39 PM
I can handle it. If I survived Sarge, Rap Fan Extraordinaire I can survive your weakness for bombast! >:D
Anticipating Alpencereal, I liked it more when I was younger, but it really only has a couple moments, doesn't it? Even back when the tone poems were staples chez B I preferred D&T or ASZ. (Still do: shorter :) )
I'm enjoying the series though.
Well thank you. ;D
Quote from: Ken B on July 14, 2014, 05:52:39 PM
Sarge, Rap Fan Extraordinaire
Wait! :o I had to go back on this one, when was this revealed? :o ;D
10 Days, 10 Works - of Richard Strauss
8. An Alpine Symphony (Eine Alpensinfonie), Op. 64 (1915)
I pulled this instrumentation list from Wikipedia...
-Woodwinds: 4 flutes (flutes 3 and 4 double piccolos), 3 oboes (oboe 3 doubles English horn), heckelphone, clarinet in E-flat, 2 clarinets in B-flat, bass clarinet (doubles clarinet in C), 4 bassoons (bassoon 4 doubles contrabassoon)
-Brass: 8 horns (horns 5–8 double Wagner tubas), 4 trumpets, 4 trombones, 2 tubas, 12 offstage horns, 2 offstage trumpets, 2 offstage trombones
-Percussion: timpani (2 players), snare drum, bass drum, cymbals, triangle, tam-tam, cowbells, wind machine, thunder machine, glockenspiel
"You're gonna need a bigger stage." - Richard Strauss, 1915 at the Berlin premiere
Ok, he didn't really say that, but he could've, that's a lot of musicians. My first orchestral tone poem was Quixote, the literal one, Heldenleben was next, the personal tale. Now a tone poem about climbing a mountain, a big one. Without knowing the story or title of this piece I would say that it would be difficult to guess the subject matter on a first listen, the music is deep, stirring, at times Romantic toned and other times scary as hell (enter thunder machine). There is definitely more involved here than just a hike up the Alpine, and to me it's a musical testament to an individual's will and resilience (while still climbing a mountain ::)). Perhaps on the outside it appears to be a work of literal storytelling, but within its core there's a metaphorical substance that is easy to detect. Take the middle climax, The Summit, there are shades of Zarathustra at the beginning of this massive calling, even the trombones sound as if they are quoting the opening call of Zarathustra. How much impact does reaching the summit have on a person? And how much of it is a mental victory as compared to a physical one? I sense that according to Strauss, it's definitely both. Have a listen (and stick around for time 2:15 for some awesomeness on the ol'slide trombone and horns)...
http://www.youtube.com/v/xK7z2NhUrsQ
Alpensinfonie's final three movements, Sonnenuntergang (Sunset), Ausklang (Conclusion) and Nacht (Night) are reminiscent on the work's previous travels and offer a beautiful, lightened look back but ends on a mysterious note as Nacht arrives and gives the traveler a sense of the unknown of what's to come. It's one of Strauss' most majestic endings.
Two recordings have to be mentioned here, mainly because I have to pay homage to Blomstedt as he has been booted from the Bruckner 6th comparison. But seriously, similar to the Blomstedt/SFS disc of Heldenleben, they again deliver a full, authentic and detailed performance with a recorded sound by London that is astonishing. My other choice, and it's quickly becoming my top, is Frank Shipway and the Sao Paulo Symphony Orchestra's 2012 disc with spacious BIS sound. The great thing about Shipway/San Paulo SO's performance is that they play the hell out of this music. When it's brash it's still decisive and clear, and it's played with such heart and with a fervent intensity that you'll want to cheer at times. This is a disc that deserves an 11 on the volume dial.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/514Fckedj2L._SS350_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71MXNRfgVEL._SS350_.jpg)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 14, 2014, 09:18:37 PM
10 Days, 10 Works - of Richard Strauss
8. An Alpine Symphony (Eine Alpensinfonie), Op. 64 (1915)
*pounds the table* :) My favourite Strauss work!
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 14, 2014, 08:06:08 PM
Wait! :o I had to go back on this one, when was this revealed? :o ;D
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,15426.msg801450.html#msg801450
Sarge
(* chortle *)
G'day, gents!
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 15, 2014, 03:58:34 AM
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,15426.msg801450.html#msg801450
Sarge
(http://i.imgur.com/GXV6H.jpg)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 14, 2014, 09:18:37 PM
10 Days, 10 Works - of Richard Strauss
8. An Alpine Symphony (Eine Alpensinfonie), Op. 64 (1915)
I listened to that Blomstedt recording on YT already last week, inspired by some earlier part of this series, and relistened to it today. A great piece, for sure. My appreciation of
Strauss's music has grown immensely during the past week. :)
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 15, 2014, 03:58:34 AM
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,15426.msg801450.html#msg801450
Sarge
I grew up in NJ in the 80s and 90s, Rap was definitely a part my culture, I'm sure I could still recite a Slick Rick tune or two.
Quote from: North Star on July 15, 2014, 04:52:57 AM
I listened to that Blomstedt recording on YT already last week, inspired by some earlier part of this series, and relistened to it today. A great piece, for sure. My appreciation of Strauss's music has grown immensely during the past week. :)
Great, Karlo! Keep listening! 8)
Quote from: ChamberNut on July 15, 2014, 03:37:56 AM
*pounds the table*
:) My favourite Strauss work!
You have broken a good number of tables in here, my friend. ;D
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 15, 2014, 05:24:09 AM
You have broken a good number of tables in here, my friend. ;D
Indeed! A few tables over Kyle and John's (MI) heads too. :laugh:
Quote from: ChamberNut on July 15, 2014, 05:27:37 AM
Indeed! A few tables over Kyle and John's (MI) heads too. :laugh:
Hey! I feel left out. ;)
Quote from: Ken B on July 15, 2014, 08:33:33 AM
Hey! I feel left out. ;)
Well, that is because you haven't completely poo-pooed Strauss' music. Only the Alpine Symphony. :D
Worse, Kyle and John (MI) would start liking his music for 1/2 an hour, then completely reverted to 'I can't stand this man's music'. ;D
Quote from: ChamberNut on July 15, 2014, 08:36:11 AM
Well, that is because you haven't completely poo-pooed Strauss' music. Only the Alpine Symphony. :D
Worse, Kyle and John (MI) would start liking his music for 1/2 an hour, then completely reverted to 'I can't stand this man's music'. ;D
Ahh, OK. I love a lot of Strauss, I just like the big tone poems a lot less than I did when I was *ahem* the Monkey's age :D
The one I really dislike but always have even when I was a Strauss head is Domestica.
Quote from: Ken B on July 15, 2014, 08:42:22 AM
Ahh, OK. I love a lot of Strauss, I just like the big tone poems a lot less than I did when I was *ahem* the Monkey's age :D
The one I really dislike but always have even when I was a Strauss head is Domestica.
I detested this one, originally. It has grown on me though. I like it now. :)
I thought Kermit was gong to pick Alpen as #1. So that prediction failed. He has already (and IMO wrongly) split FLS into bits. So what will be his #1? My new revised updated and revamped prediction is Metamorphosen. Like all predictions this one will be quietly forgotten if it proves wrong.
Quote from: Ken B on July 15, 2014, 08:48:58 AM
I thought Kermit was gong to pick Alpen as #1. So that prediction failed. He has already (and IMO wrongly) split FLS into bits. So what will be his #1? My new revised updated and revamped prediction is Metamorphosen. Like all predictions this one will be quietly forgotten if it proves wrong.
I hope it is
Salome! :)
Quote from: Ken B on July 15, 2014, 08:42:22 AM
The one I really dislike but always have even when I was a Strauss head is Domestica.
Even though I seem to enjoy it more than you, it will not make my top 10. :)
Quote from: Ken B on July 15, 2014, 08:48:58 AM
I thought Kermit was gong to pick Alpen as #1. So that prediction failed. He has already (and IMO wrongly) split FLS into bits. So what will be his #1?
I'm not numbering them in order of favorite really, I did start out with the
Stimmungsbilder as no. 10, which it would have been, but then changed it to 1 for the purpose of having an equal list of ten pieces. I will more than likely explain which one, or several are my favorites after I reach the last one. It's really difficult for me to rank them from 10 to 1, the bottom 5 or 6 could really be in any order and I would fine with it.
Quote from: Ken B on July 15, 2014, 08:48:58 AM
My new revised updated and revamped prediction is Metamorphosen.
You're like that guy who keeps talking during the movie trying to spoil the end for everyone! :o ;D ;D
Quote from: Ken B on July 15, 2014, 08:48:58 AM
I thought Kermit was gong to pick Alpen as #1. So that prediction failed. He has already (and IMO wrongly) split FLS into bits. So what will be his #1? My new revised updated and revamped prediction is Metamorphosen. Like all predictions this one will be quietly forgotten if it proves wrong.
It may not be the Frog's favorite Strauss work but it certainly is mine.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 14, 2014, 09:18:37 PM(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71MXNRfgVEL._SS350_.jpg)
I have the Blomstedt, along with Haitink's:
[asin]B00000E34B[/asin]
Haitink's is also in astonishing sound. But so far I'm not as smitten by Alpine as others. :(
Quotehttp://www.youtube.com/v/xK7z2NhUrsQ
However, watching this Bychkov snippet (thanks, GS) reminded me that Bychkov recorded Alpine commercially. Definitely want to investigate. Anyone heard it?
[asin]B002QEXC9O[/asin]
10 Days, 10 Works - of Richard Strauss
9. Die Frau ohne Schatten, "The Woman without a Shadow" (premiered in 1919)
This is the most recent addition to my top ten from Strauss. I spent years and years listening to the Symphonic Fragment from Die Frau, and even though I found some great pleasure from it I always felt something was missing. Oh yeah, I know, the singing! And about another 2 hours and 45 minutes of music. My fear of opera left me in the blind for too long, but now I can see (and hear) and damn this is great stuff. The sheer scope of this piece is tremendous, over three hours long and requiring an arsenal of top-rated singers, a monumental sized band and numerous stage sets and changes.
I am drawn to Die Frau's mythical setting, which I believe Strauss scored ideally for. I also believe it contains the best opening and ending to any of his operas, the punch-in-the-face kickoff to start, and a a final 10 minutes that will make the hair on your neck stand tall! Overall this is one of the most beautifully conceived works of opera I've ever heard.
Similar to Elektra I only own one recording of Die Frau ohne Schatten, and again it's Solti with Vienna, but it's a real barnburner with some exquisite singing.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5134Hum1w%2BL._SX350_.jpg)
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on July 15, 2014, 05:49:21 PM
[asin]B002QEXC9O[/asin]
I haven't heard the Bychkov either, but if it's in any way similar to the sound he created with that Berlin clip, then I would be interested as well. And thanks for the Haitink rec,
DD. Another one I'll seek out for sure! 8)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 15, 2014, 06:09:32 PM
I haven't heard the Bychkov either, but if it's in any way similar to the sound he created with that Berlin clip, then I would be interested as well.
Yes, I was thinking exactly the same thing.
QuoteAnd thanks for the Haitink rec, DD. Another one I'll seek out for sure! 8)
Pleasure. :)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 15, 2014, 06:05:13 PM
10 Days, 10 Works - of Richard Strauss
9. Die Frau ohne Schatten, "The Woman without a Shadow" (premiered in 1919)
This is the most recent addition to my top ten from Strauss. I spent years and years listening to the Symphonic Fragment from Die Frau, and even though I found some great pleasure from it I always felt something was missing. Oh yeah, I know, the singing! And about another 2 hours and 45 minutes of music. My fear of opera left me in the blind for too long, but now I can see (and hear) and damn this is great stuff. The sheer scope of this piece is tremendous, over three hours long and requiring an arsenal of top-rated singers, a monumental sized band and numerous stage sets and changes.
I am drawn to Die Frau's mythical setting, which I believe Strauss scored ideally for. I also believe it contains the best opening and ending to any of his operas, the punch-in-the-face kickoff to start, and a a final 10 minutes that will make the hair on your neck stand tall! Overall this is one of the most beautifully conceived works of opera I've ever heard.
Similar to Elektra I only own one recording of Die Frau ohne Schatten, and again it's Solti with Vienna, but it's a real barnburner with some exquisite singing.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5134Hum1w%2BL._SX350_.jpg)
I did not see that one coming. I have never heard this. :-[
Quote from: Ken B on July 15, 2014, 06:17:41 PM
I did not see that one coming. I have never heard this. :-[
You need to correct that.
I have the Solti in the S. Conducts Strauss box but have not listened to it.
I do have the Sawallisch and have no hesitation in suggesting that.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 15, 2014, 06:05:13 PM
10 Days, 10 Works - of Richard Strauss
9. Die Frau ohne Schatten, "The Woman without a Shadow" (premiered in 1919)
This is the most recent addition to my top ten from Strauss. I spent years and years listening to the Symphonic Fragment from Die Frau, and even though I found some great pleasure from it I always felt something was missing. Oh yeah, I know, the singing! And about another 2 hours and 45 minutes of music. My fear of opera left me in the blind for too long, but now I can see (and hear) and damn this is great stuff. The sheer scope of this piece is tremendous, over three hours long and requiring an arsenal of top-rated singers, a monumental sized band and numerous stage sets and changes.
I am drawn to Die Frau's mythical setting, which I believe Strauss scored ideally for. I also believe it contains the best opening and ending to any of his operas, the punch-in-the-face kickoff to start, and a a final 10 minutes that will make the hair on your neck stand tall! Overall this is one of the most beautifully conceived works of opera I've ever heard.
Similar to Elektra I only own one recording of Die Frau ohne Schatten, and again it's Solti with Vienna, but it's a real barnburner with some exquisite singing.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5134Hum1w%2BL._SX350_.jpg)
Oooooo,
YES!!I was hoping for a
Schatten sighting!
The orchestration for this piece is exquisite. My favorite of all Strauss. I've always felt that this was his most
colorful work.
Solti's performance is absolutely top-notch. And the sonics capture everything. Very impressive package all around.
However there is another that's just as good interpretively and is perhaps just a whisker better recorded: Sawallisch. But neither has a leg up over the other. They're perfect complements.
[asin]B005HYNCPE[/asin]
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on July 15, 2014, 06:34:13 PM
Oooooo, YES!!
I was hoping for a Schatten sighting!
The orchestration for this piece is exquisite. My favorite of all Strauss. I've always felt that this was his most colorful work.
Solti's performance is absolutely top-notch. And the sonics capture everything. Very impressive package all around.
However there is another that's just as good interpretively and is perhaps just a whisker better recorded: Sawallisch. But neither has a leg up over the other. They're perfect complements.
[asin]B005HYNCPE[/asin]
That does looks as if it should be a good one. And I like Cheryl Studer, thanks,
DD.
At the moment the Karajan Salome is available here
http://www.cliveheathmusic.co.uk/vinyl.php
but this is a "here today, gone tomorrow" page on my site.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 15, 2014, 08:11:03 PM
That does looks as if it should be a good one. And I like Cheryl Studer, thanks, DD.
It is in the Warner/EMI set...
[asin] B00FM60U8E[/asin]
Quote from: Moonfish on July 16, 2014, 01:38:29 PM
It is in the Warner/EMI set...
[asin] B00FM60U8E[/asin]
That is very nice set,
Moonfish. I've had my eye on this since it's release. Need to start saving!
10 Days, 10 Works - of Richard Strauss
10. Metamorphosen, for 23 strings (1945)
I doubt this will come as a surprise, but my final entry in the Strauss 10 is arguably his finest work. Metamorphosen stands out among Strauss' other orchestral masterpieces because of its bleak and tragic tonality. The work was composed towards the end of the war and it is presumed that it was written as a personal lament by the composer. The (approximately) 27-minute piece throughout attempts a musical metamorphosis between devastation and sublime, resulting in some of the most heartbreakingly beautiful music of the 20th Century. But the appearance of Beethoven's Eroica funeral march by the cellos and basses at the end indicate that the gloomy shadow of war never goes away.
The score for Metamorphosen is quite amazing, the 23 strings are actually solo parts that have their own lines. But there are times when they all come together and form one large voice, and I think no recording has exhibited this better than the New Stockholm Chamber Orchestra under the direction of Esa-Pekka Salonen. Again there are some great performances of this work available, but none brings together the intimate nature of the soloists and the sweeping grandiose of the entire ensemble in a nicer presentation. As you can tell, I'm a huge fan of the Blomstedt/SFS recordings of Strauss. I've already mentioned this one earlier, but it gets a special recognition and sits slightly next to my first choice, mainly because of its impeccable clarity. No Metamorphosen can match the balance of London's SFS disc. Plus, it holds the best performed closing of the piece, Blomstedt lets the final chord fade into darkness, while the higher voices disappear the basses continue to resonate, it's quite eerie but divine. Both come highly recommended.
I had the pleasure of seeing the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra perform Metamorphosen earlier this year under Donald Runnicles. It was one of the best live experiences ever, and I hope that I get a chance to see it again.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51SC52TD1AL._SY300_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41CeIIqKxqL._SS200_.jpg)
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on July 15, 2014, 05:26:01 PM
It may not be the Frog's favorite Strauss work but it certainly is mine.
YES.
I was introduced to it via Mahler.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ChkjhY5PL.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51r5j1XowhL.jpg)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 16, 2014, 06:42:35 PM
10 Days, 10 Works - of Richard Strauss
10. Metamorphosen, for 23 strings (1945)
I doubt this will come as a surprise, but my final entry in the Strauss 10 is arguably his finest work. Metamorphosen stands out among Strauss' other orchestral masterpieces because of its bleak and tragic tonality. The work was composed towards the end of the war and it is presumed that it was written as a personal lament by the composer. The (approximately) 27-minute piece throughout attempts a musical metamorphosis between devastation and sublime, resulting in some of the most heartbreakingly beautiful music of the 20th Century. But the appearance of Beethoven's Eroica funeral march by the cellos and basses at the end indicate that the gloomy shadow of war never goes away.
The score for Metamorphosen is quite amazing, the 23 strings are actually solo parts that have their own lines. But there are times when they all come together and form one large voice, and I think no recording has exhibited this better than the New Stockholm Chamber Orchestra under the direction of Esa-Pekka Salonen. Again there are some great performances of this work available, but none brings together the intimate nature of the soloists and the sweeping grandiose of the entire ensemble in a nicer presentation. As you can tell, I'm a huge fan of the Blomstedt/SFS recordings of Strauss. I've already mentioned this one earlier, but it gets a special recognition and sits slightly next to my first choice, mainly because of its impeccable clarity. No Metamorphosen can match the balance of London's SFS disc. Plus, it holds the best performed closing of the piece, Blomstedt lets the final chord fade into darkness, while the higher voices disappear the basses continue to resonate, it's quite eerie but divine. Both come highly recommended.
I had the pleasure of seeing the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra perform Metamorphosen earlier this year under Donald Runnicles. It was one of the best live experiences ever, and I hope that I get a chance to see it again.
Thanks for the reminder to re-listen to this piece,
Greg!
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 16, 2014, 06:42:35 PM
10 Days, 10 Works - of Richard Strauss
10. Metamorphosen, for 23 strings (1945)
A splendid piece, and would also be in my top 10 favourite Strauss. :)
Quote from: karlhenning on July 17, 2014, 06:18:31 AM
Thanks for the reminder to re-listen to this piece, Greg!
You should download the score and read along, Karl. As a composer I think you'd find quite a bit to chew on.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 16, 2014, 06:42:35 PM
10 Days, 10 Works - of Richard Strauss
10. Metamorphosen, for 23 strings (1945)
I doubt this will come as a surprise, but my final entry in the Strauss 10 is arguably his finest work. Metamorphosen stands out among Strauss' other orchestral masterpieces because of its bleak and tragic tonality. The work was composed towards the end of the war and it is presumed that it was written as a personal lament by the composer. The (approximately) 27-minute piece throughout attempts a musical metamorphosis between devastation and sublime, resulting in some of the most heartbreakingly beautiful music of the 20th Century. But the appearance of Beethoven's Eroica funeral march by the cellos and basses at the end indicate that the gloomy shadow of war never goes away.
A splendid choice Greg!! The piece is relatively new to me as I have never really immersed myself in Strauss until recently. Interestingly, "Metamorphosen" became quite popular in my house last week with several spins over a couple of days. Even my wife asked me about the piece and expressed her interest in the music. ??? And now you put it on a GMG pedestal! I find the music very intriguing in its wavelike tonality. You used the word sublime which perhaps encapsulates the work? Strauss' compositions seemingly call for repeated listenings in their web-like architectural soundscapes. I need to dig deeper into his operas! :P
Thanks for putting effort into the Strauss thread!
Quote from: Moonfish on July 17, 2014, 11:41:28 AM
A splendid choice Greg!! The piece is relatively new to me as I have never really immersed myself in Strauss until recently. Interestingly, "Metamorphosen" became quite popular in my house last week with several spins over a couple of days. Even my wife asked me about the piece and expressed her interest in the music. ??? And now you put it on a GMG pedestal! I find the music very intriguing in its wavelike tonality. You used the word sublime which perhaps encapsulates the work? Strauss' compositions seemingly call for repeated listenings in their web-like architectural soundscapes. I need to dig deeper into his operas! :P
Thanks for putting effort into the Strauss thread!
Thank you for the kind words! :)
I'm glad you're increasing your interest in Strauss. I'm hoping that this thread stays active, I've only mentioned a fraction of his great works and there is still plenty more to explore.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 17, 2014, 11:54:51 AM
Thank you for the kind words! :)
I'm glad you're increasing your interest in Strauss. I'm hoping that this thread stays active, I've only mentioned a fraction of his great works and there is still plenty more to explore.
One word
Moonfish: lieder.
Quote from: Ken B on July 17, 2014, 01:06:17 PM
One word Moonfish: lieder.
(http://kidshealth.org/teen/diseases_conditions/allergies_immune/headers_97033/T_Allergies_1.jpg)
Listened to this in the EMI Eminence box tonight. Perhaps not quite as topflight as from the ladies but nicely done
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21QN0D468GL.jpg)
Simon Keenlyside with Malcolm Martineau tickling the ivories
ASIN B000025XY9
Quote from: Moonfish on July 17, 2014, 01:41:46 PM
(http://kidshealth.org/teen/diseases_conditions/allergies_immune/headers_97033/T_Allergies_1.jpg)
I'd listen to more lieder if it wasn't sung in some furrin' jibber-jabber.
To whoever suggested the Sinopoli Josephs Legende (I'm thinking Greg and Jens, perhaps others), hearty thanks. I think this has become my favorite Strauss score.
Quote from: karlhenning on October 04, 2014, 06:43:04 PM
To whoever suggested the Sinopoli Josephs Legende (I'm thinking Greg and Jens, perhaps others), hearty thanks. I think this has become my favorite Strauss score.
You're one of us now! 8)
Quote from: karlhenning on October 04, 2014, 06:43:04 PM
To whoever suggested the Sinopoli Josephs Legende (I'm thinking Greg and Jens, perhaps others), hearty thanks. I think this has become my favorite Strauss score.
That's great news, Karl! :)
And I'm glad I read this before I headed to work this morning, grabbed this disc for the car ride. 8)
I am going to a talk with live examples on Electra today. It's a regular thing at a friend's church, the UMich opera department does it.
Quote from: karlhenning on October 04, 2014, 06:43:04 PM
To whoever suggested the Sinopoli Josephs Legende (I'm thinking Greg and Jens, perhaps others), hearty thanks. I think this has become my favorite Strauss score.
I have not heard this performance,
Karl. However,
Josephs Legende is a marvelous work. Glad you enjoyed it!! :)
Any fans of his early works? Violin Sonata, Cello Sonata, Violin Concerto, 1st Horn Concerto anyone? He dismissed them himself, but I think he shouldn't have. They are the first-rate second-rate masterpieces of a first-rate second-rate composer. :)
I need another cup of hot tea before I can sort that out :)
Quote from: Florestan on October 06, 2014, 04:39:20 AM
Any fans of his early works? Violin Sonata, Cello Sonata, Violin Concerto, 1st Horn Concerto anyone? He dismissed them himself, but I think he shouldn't have. They are the first-rate second-rate masterpieces of a first-rate second-rate composer. :)
I like them, but I wouldn't necessarily say that if you love other works from Strauss then you'll love these. They are
early, but I still hear enough hints of his future self infused in this music. The Cello Sonata seems the least recognizable of the bunch, with the Horn Concerto sounding as if it were written closer to the 2nd which was many decades later.
Quote from: karlhenning on October 04, 2014, 06:43:04 PM
To whoever suggested the Sinopoli Josephs Legende (I'm thinking Greg and Jens, perhaps others), hearty thanks. I think this has become my favorite Strauss score.
I forgot just how powerful this ending is. Chill-inducing to say the least.
Quote from: Ken B on October 05, 2014, 06:55:40 AM
I am going to a talk with live examples on Electra today. It's a regular thing at a friend's church, the UMich opera department does it.
How was it, Ken?
Quote from: Florestan on October 06, 2014, 04:39:20 AM
Any fans of his early works? Violin Sonata, Cello Sonata, Violin Concerto, 1st Horn Concerto anyone? He dismissed them himself, but I think he shouldn't have. They are the first-rate second-rate masterpieces of a first-rate second-rate composer. :)
Haven't heard the two early sonatas, but love the concertos you mentioned, especially the Violin Concerto. It is a marvelous concerto, for 'early Strauss'.
Quote from: The new erato on October 06, 2014, 05:59:54 AM
He's probably still in shock.
...at how fantastic it was!! ;D
Don't really remember much about the Violin concerto and first horn concerto, I probably listened not more than once (Kempe Box). But the Violin sonata is a very remarkable and passionate piece and another favorite early work is the Burleske for piano with timpani and orchestra.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 06, 2014, 05:55:09 AM
How was it, Ken?
It was not bad. It was an hour long talk. Explained the plot.
I had the group wrong, it's the Michigan Opera Theater. They are doing Elektra in a few weeks with Christine Goerke. She wasn't there but they played a couple recorded excerpts with her. Then two singers with pianist did a couple of numbers from other upcoming shows. The soprano was very good indeed. Q&A.
http://www.michiganopera.org/2014-2015-season/opera/elektra (http://www.michiganopera.org/2014-2015-season/opera/elektra)
Quote from: Florestan on October 06, 2014, 04:39:20 AM
Any fans of his early works? Violin Sonata, Cello Sonata, Violin Concerto, 1st Horn Concerto anyone? He dismissed them himself, but I think he shouldn't have. They are the first-rate second-rate masterpieces of a first-rate second-rate composer. :)
YES! :) Especially considering how young he was when he composed those. I have similar fondness towards Sibelius's early(and most of that he ever wrote) chamber music works which also show remarkable craftmanship from such a young composer.
Time to recap some Strauss purchases I made over the past few days:
(http://direct.sinfinimusic.com/media/AbstractArticleBigData/imageFull/.fUR4N2XU/WarehouseArticle-145956/Various-Richard-Strauss-Complete-Tone-Poems-Concertos.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/915iDPsrUzL._SL1500_.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513Clp7Z13L.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/815kE3yxzNL._SL1500_.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/911tf15fGaL._SL1500_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71YoiLCDwWL._SL1500_.jpg)
And there's more to come I'm sure. Anyway, are you any of you familiar with these recordings? Of course, I already own a lot of Karajan's Strauss (both on DG, EMI, and that one Decca recording), but there were several performances in that box that I don't own (Horn Concerto No. 2 and Oboe Concerto). I see that many people loved the Honeck recording with Pittsburgh SO here. I'm not sure about the Brilliant chamber set, but it will fill in a gap that's for sure. I know, and love, his Violin Sonata however, but I'm not too familiar with much of his chamber music. The Decca box set was a no-brainer as Blomstedt's performances are highly praised here and abroad.
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 18, 2014, 07:28:22 AM
Time to recap some Strauss purchases I made over the past few days:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/815kE3yxzNL._SL1500_.jpg)
*fiercely pounds the table*
Are these Karajan recordings mostly from the 80s?
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/815kE3yxzNL._SL1500_.jpg)
Quote from: Moonfish on October 18, 2014, 11:11:21 AM
Are these Karajan recordings mostly from the 80s?
They are indeed; Salome's Dance and the Horn Concerto are from the 70s, while the Oboe Concerto is from the 60s.
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 18, 2014, 07:28:22 AM
Time to recap some Strauss purchases I made over the past few days:
And there's more to come I'm sure. Anyway, are you any of you familiar with these recordings? Of course, I already own a lot of Karajan's Strauss (both on DG, EMI, and that one Decca recording), but there were several performances in that box that I don't own (Horn Concerto No. 2 and Oboe Concerto). I see that many people loved the Honeck recording with Pittsburgh SO here. I'm not sure about the Brilliant chamber set, but it will fill in a gap that's for sure. I know, and love, his Violin Sonata however, but I'm not too familiar with much of his chamber music. The Decca box set was a no-brainer as Blomstedt's performances are highly praised here and abroad.
Reiner and Blomstedt are
fantastic buys! I'm not always sold on
all of Karajan's Strauss recordings, especially the Alpine which probably puts me in the minority, but he's good most of the time.
It was Brian that went ecstatic over the Honeck/Pitts disc, and he was right. Sonically spectacular.
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on October 18, 2014, 09:58:48 AM
*fiercely pounds the table*
:P Somehow I
knew you would pound the table, Ilaria. ;)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 18, 2014, 01:57:13 PM
Reiner and Blomstedt are fantastic buys! I'm not always sold on all of Karajan's Strauss recordings, especially the Alpine which probably puts me in the minority, but he's good most of the time.
It was Brian that went ecstatic over the Honeck/Pitts disc, and he was right. Sonically spectacular.
I already own two recordings from the Reiner set and, yes, his Strauss is fantastic. Blomstedt I had only heard one performance from and I believe it was
Till Eulenspiegel's Merry Pranks and I recall enjoying it a good deal. Unfortunately, Blomstedt's
Till Eulenspiegel isn't in this Decca box but everything else he conducted of Strauss' for the label is. :-\ This looks like the only misstep in this set.
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 18, 2014, 06:24:33 PM
:P Somehow I knew you would pound the table, Ilaria. ;)
Yeah. ;) Though I think that set doesn't include all the most beautiful Karajan's performances; the WP recordings of
Don Juan,
Till Eulenspiegel and especially
Also sprach Zarathustra are much better in my opinion.
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on October 19, 2014, 04:56:33 AM
Yeah. ;) Though I think that set doesn't include all the most beautiful Karajan's performances; the WP recordings of Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegel and especially Also sprach Zarathustra are much better in my opinion.
Did Karajan record Metamorphosen twice? I own the performance that's coupled with Four Last Songs. That's a great recording, of both works.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 19, 2014, 05:19:47 AM
Did Karajan record Metamorphosen twice? I own the performance that's coupled with Four Last Songs. That's a great recording, of both works.
Yes, I'm not sure, but the version coupled with
Four Last Songs should be from the 60s; another one was recorded in the 80s.
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on October 19, 2014, 04:56:33 AM
Yeah. ;) Though I think that set doesn't include all the most beautiful Karajan's performances; the WP recordings of Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegel and especially Also sprach Zarathustra are much better in my opinion.
Where these the ones on Decca? If yes, then I already own this recording. 8)
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 19, 2014, 07:28:03 AM
Where these the ones on Decca? If yes, then I already own this recording. 8)
Precisely the Decca recording.
What are everyone's favorite performances of the tone poems?
I'll list them all and you can copy-and-paste my list and put your favorite performance next to the work:
1. Aus Italien
2. Don Juan
3. Macbeth
4. Death and Transfiguration
5. Till Eulenspiegel's Merry Pranks
6. Also sprach Zarathustra
7. Don Quixote
8. Ein Heldenleben
9. Symphonia Domestica
10. An Alpine Symphony
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 19, 2014, 09:41:54 PM
What are everyone's favorite performances of the tone poems?
An easy one for me:
1.
Aus Italien Zinman/Tonhalle Orchestra Zürich
2.
Don Juan Karajan/Wiener Philharmoniker
3.
Macbeth Zinman/Tonhalle Orchestra Zürich
4.
Death and Transfiguration Karajan/Berliner Philharmoniker
5.
Till Eulenspiegel's Merry Pranks Karajan/Wiener Philharmoniker
6.
Also sprach Zarathustra Karajan/Wiener Philharmoniker
7.
Don Quixote Karajan/Berliner Philharmoniker
8.
Ein Heldenleben Karajan/Berliner Philharmoniker
9.
Symphonia Domestica Karajan/Berliner Philharmoniker
10.
An Alpine Symphony Karajan/Berliner Philharmoniker
Quote from: Jo498 on October 06, 2014, 06:23:09 AM
Don't really remember much about the Violin concerto and first horn concerto, I probably listened not more than once (Kempe Box). But the Violin sonata is a very remarkable and passionate piece and another favorite early work is the Burleske for piano with timpani and orchestra.
The Violin Sonata is my favourite Strauss work so far. I liked the Violin Concerto as well, but I'd rather listen to the Dvořák, which it very strongly resembles. I haven't really enjoyed most of his "mature" stuff from Don Juan onwards, though.
(I guess if I wanted to start exploring I should tear open the Kempe EMI box, right? That's easily accessible via library & seems to be consistently praised)
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on October 20, 2014, 12:53:34 AM
An easy one for me:
1. Aus Italien Zinman/Tonhalle Orchestra Zürich
2. Don Juan Karajan/Wiener Philharmoniker
3. Macbeth Zinman/Tonhalle Orchestra Zürich
4. Death and Transfiguration Karajan/Berliner Philharmoniker
5. Till Eulenspiegel's Merry Pranks Karajan/Wiener Philharmoniker
6. Also sprach Zarathustra Karajan/Wiener Philharmoniker
7. Don Quixote Karajan/Berliner Philharmoniker
8. Ein Heldenleben Karajan/Berliner Philharmoniker
9. Symphonia Domestica Karajan/Berliner Philharmoniker
10. An Alpine Symphony Karajan/Berliner Philharmoniker
Not even one Kempe? !! ??? :'( :'( :'( :'(
Quote from: Moonfish on October 20, 2014, 01:18:13 AM
Not even one Kempe? !! ??? :'( :'( :'( :'(
I'm sorry, the only Kempe I've listened to so far is the
Alpine Symphony, but Karajan's recording is unbeatable for me.
QuoteWhat are everyone's favorite performances of the tone poems?
I'll list them all and you can copy-and-paste my list and put your favorite performance next to the work:
1.
Aus Italien -
Zinman/Tonhalle Orchestra Zürich2.
Don Juan -
Kempe/Dresden Staatskapelle: The opening bars are reason enough to pick Kempe over any one else here.
3.
Macbeth -
Jarvi/RSNO4.
Death and Transfiguration -
Kempe/Dresden Staatskapelle: Nobody mastered the flow and pacing of Strauss like Kempe, and his
Tod never drags, and is never overflowing with tragedy.
Honeck/Pitts is a very close second with an unmatched orchestral sound.
5.
Till Eulenspiegel's Merry Pranks -
Slatkin/Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra: This is more of nod to the recording quality and orchestral playing. It's so playful and never rushed, and the execution scene has never sounded more frightening. Poor Till.
6.
Also sprach Zarathustra -
Sinopoli/NYP: Huge sound, massive power.
7.
Don Quixote -
Markus Stenz/Cologne Gurzenich Orchestra/Alban Gerhardt (cello): Probably still the newest Quixote on record, but it's so precisely recorded and performed. Might not be the best solo cello performance available, although Gerhardt is great, but as a whole this is top notch.
8.
Ein Heldenleben -
Mehta/NYP: My personal favorite, but with many so closely behind.
9.
Symphonia Domestica -
Reiner/CSO: Tough piece to execute, but Reiner/CSO is solid.
Edo de Waart/MINN SO is also
very good.
10.
An Alpine Symphony -
Blomstedt/SFS:
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on October 20, 2014, 12:53:34 AM
An easy one for me:
1. Aus Italien Zinman/Tonhalle Orchestra Zürich
2. Don Juan Karajan/Wiener Philharmoniker
3. Macbeth Zinman/Tonhalle Orchestra Zürich
4. Death and Transfiguration Karajan/Berliner Philharmoniker
5. Till Eulenspiegel's Merry Pranks Karajan/Wiener Philharmoniker
6. Also sprach Zarathustra Karajan/Wiener Philharmoniker
7. Don Quixote Karajan/Berliner Philharmoniker
8. Ein Heldenleben Karajan/Berliner Philharmoniker
9. Symphonia Domestica Karajan/Berliner Philharmoniker
10. An Alpine Symphony Karajan/Berliner Philharmoniker
A predictable one at that! ;)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 20, 2014, 06:51:32 AM
1. Aus Italien - Zinman/Tonhalle Orchestra Zürich
2. Don Juan - Kempe/Dresden Staatskapelle: The opening bars are reason enough to pick Kempe over any one else here.
3. Macbeth - Jarvi/RSNO
4. Death and Transfiguration - Kempe/Dresden Staatskapelle: Nobody mastered the flow and pacing of Strauss like Kempe, and his Tod never drags, and is never overflowing with tragedy. Honeck/Pitts is a very close second with an unmatched orchestral sound.
5. Till Eulenspiegel's Merry Pranks - Slatkin/Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra: This is more of nod to the recording quality and orchestral playing. It's so playful and never rushed, and the execution scene has never sounded more frightening. Poor Till.
6. Also sprach Zarathustra - Sinopoli/NYP: Huge sound, massive power.
7. Don Quixote - Markus Stenz/Cologne Gurzenich Orchestra/Alban Gerhardt (cello): Probably still the newest Quixote on record, but it's so precisely recorded and performed. Might not be the best solo cello performance available, although Gerhardt is great, but as a whole this is top notch.
8. Ein Heldenleben - Mehta/NYP: My personal favorite, but with many so closely behind.
9. Symphonia Domestica - Reiner/CSO: Tough piece to execute, but Reiner/CSO is solid. Edo de Waart/MINN SO is also very good.
10. An Alpine Symphony - Blomstedt/SFS:
Nice list, Greg.
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 20, 2014, 08:30:57 AM
A predictable one at that! ;)
That assist was too perfect.
Wait -- HvK didn't record Aus Italien? 8)
Quote from: karlhenning on October 20, 2014, 10:10:09 AM
Wait -- HvK didn't record Aus Italien? 8)
Or
Macbeth so it seems.
Quote from: karlhenning on October 20, 2014, 10:10:09 AM
Wait -- HvK didn't record Aus Italien? 8)
He was smart, opted to re-record Strauss' stronger works.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 20, 2014, 10:34:47 AM
He was smart, opted to re-record Strauss' stronger works.
Are you suggesting there's something wrong with Aus Italien?
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on October 20, 2014, 10:45:24 AM
Are you suggesting there's something wrong with Aus Italien?
No, only that there are stronger works by Strauss. I actually really enjoy Aus Italian, and MacBeth.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 20, 2014, 10:34:47 AM
He was smart, opted to re-record Strauss' stronger works.
Only so much time; true!
What do my fellow Straussians make of the youthful Violin Concerto? I think it's a great work personally. That slow movement is just gorgeous while the last movement is a rip-roaring stream of violin pyrotechnics. Any favorite performances? It seems Boris Belkin (Ashkenazy - cond) will be on my to-listen-to list once I receive that Decca set.
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 21, 2014, 07:42:55 PM
What do my fellow Straussians make of the youthful Violin Concerto? I think it's a great work personally. That slow movement is just gorgeous while the last movement is a rip-roaring stream of violin pyrotechnics. Any favorite performances? It seems Boris Belkin (Ashkenazy - cond) will be on my to-listen-to list once I receive that Decca set.
I like it a lot. Have heard only Hoelscher/Kempe/SK Dresden though.
Quote from: amw on October 20, 2014, 01:03:03 AMI liked the Violin Concerto as well, but I'd rather listen to the Dvořák, which it very strongly resembles.
This is still true. ;) Last movement is certainly the most enjoyable, for me.
I've heard two performances, one by Sarah Chang and one by Thomas Irnberger. Don't remember who the orchestras were, sorry. I think I liked them both about equally, for different reasons.
Have Chang, don't remember anything impressive from either the concerto or the sonata.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513WuoAeK6L.jpg)
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on October 22, 2014, 07:15:40 AM
Have Chang?
I do, thanks, Jeffrey. ;D
As much as I love Strauss and own way too many recordings of his works, I'm perfectly satisfied with owning only one version of the VC/VSonata and that's the Chang/Sawallisch.
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 19, 2014, 09:41:54 PM
What are everyone's favorite performances of the tone poems?
Don Juan - Dohnanyi/Vienna Philharmonic
Death and Transfiguration - Dohnanyi/Vienna Philharmonic
Till Eulenspiegel's Merry Pranks - Sawallisch/Philadelphia
Also sprach Zarathustra - Kempe/Dresden
Don Quixote - Kempe/Berlin Philharmonic
Ein Heldenleben - Bychkov/Köln
Symphonia Domestica - Sawallisch/Philadelphia
An Alpine Symphony - Blomstedt/San Francisco
I'd add:
Metamorphosis - either Bychkov/Köln or Dohnanyi/Vienna Philharmonic
Festive Prelude (for the roof-raising organ!) - Sawallisch/Philadelphia
For the violin sonata Chung/Zimerman is good.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on October 22, 2014, 08:01:52 PM
For the violin sonata Chung/Zimerman is good.
Yep, this the one I have on the way. It's coupled with Respighi's
Violin Sonata, which I've never heard before.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on October 22, 2014, 07:55:51 PM
Don Juan - Dohnanyi/Vienna Philharmonic
Death and Transfiguration - Dohnanyi/Vienna Philharmonic
Till Eulenspiegel's Merry Pranks - Sawallisch/Philadelphia
Also sprach Zarathustra - Kempe/Dresden
Don Quixote - Kempe/Berlin Philharmonic
Ein Heldenleben - Bychkov/Köln
Symphonia Domestica - Sawallisch/Philadelphia
An Alpine Symphony - Blomstedt/San Francisco
I'd add:
Metamorphosis - either Bychkov/Köln or Dohnanyi/Vienna Philharmonic
Festive Prelude (for the roof-raising organ!) - Sawallisch/Philadelphia
Nice list, DD. Coincidently, on your recommendation, I picked up both two of the Bychkov recordings (
Eine Alpensinfonie and
Ein Heldenleben discs). Really looking forward to hearing what he does with Strauss. I'm generally a fan of his conducting. I watched him conduct a performance of Walton's 1st on YouTube that was quite something.
I see we are all Canadian today. Class act DungeonMaster.
My avatar is the hero of the day, the Sergeant at Arms of the Commons, who shot the terrorist just yards from the caucus room.
Quote from: Ken B on October 22, 2014, 08:39:04 PM
I see we are all Canadian today. Class act DungeonMaster.
My avatar is the hero of the day, the Sergeant at Arms of the Commons, who shot the terrorist just yards from the caucus room.
??? What does this have to do with Strauss, Ken?
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 22, 2014, 08:42:42 PM
??? What does this have to do with Strauss, Ken?
Look beside the names John. Little flag.
Why not on this thread? Has to go somewhere?
Quote from: Ken B on October 22, 2014, 08:49:12 PM
Look beside the names John. Little flag.
Why not on this thread? Has to go somewhere?
What are you talking about? Beside the names? What names?
Anyway, is the Strauss
really the proper venue for discussing Canadian or any kind of news besides related to Strauss? That's really why 'The Diner' exists, isn't it?
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 22, 2014, 08:53:54 PM
What are you talking about? Beside the names? What names?
Anyway, is the Strauss really the proper venue for discussing Canadian or any kind of news besides related to Strauss? That's really why 'The Diner' exists, isn't it?
I am not discussing the news. I am acknowledging the action of our host.
Quote from: Ken B on October 22, 2014, 08:58:24 PM
I am not discussing the news. I am acknowledging the action of our host.
But
why here and not 'The Diner' where it would make more sense for you to make the acknowledgement?
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 22, 2014, 08:32:08 PM
Nice list, DD. Coincidently, on your recommendation, I picked up both two of the Bychkov recordings (Eine Alpensinfonie and Ein Heldenleben discs). Really looking forward to hearing what he does with Strauss. I'm generally a fan of his conducting.
Bychkov has more of a modernist bent to his approach to Strauss. It's an approach I really enjoy. And it works very well in his
Elektra, too.
I haven't heard his Alpine, though. And since Alpine is still a work I haven't yet managed to conquer (so to speak) I'll definitely be looking out for your comments once you've heard the Bychkov.
Only listened to Disc 1, and snuck in the final 10 minutes because it's an amazing ending, of Sawallisch's Die Frau ohne Schatten on EMI...DD made a great rec, it's beautifully performed. I've read several times it lacks the power of Solti's, which was even used as a negative, and they're right. But Sawallisch and Co. create a more lyrical power, a smooth flowing river of sound rather than a large, crashing waterfall. Not saying either one is correct, but it's a great contrast to study, and there is definitely some clarity in the EMI that is lost in the Decca. Im excited to get to the rest of Sawallisch's Die Frau, the more I listen to this opera, the easier it is to call it Strauss' best.
Thanks, DD.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on October 22, 2014, 07:55:51 PM
Festive Prelude (for the roof-raising organ!) - Sawallisch/Philadelphia
Heard that live at
Old South Church on Copley Square (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_South_Church)! No recording can equal that 8)
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on October 22, 2014, 09:24:15 PM
Bychkov has more of a modernist bent to his approach to Strauss. It's an approach I really enjoy. And it works very well in his Elektra, too.
I haven't heard his Alpine, though. And since Alpine is still a work I haven't yet managed to conquer (so to speak) I'll definitely be looking out for your comments once you've heard the Bychkov.
A more modernist bent in Strauss? I'm so there! Thanks, DD. I'll definitely post my thoughts on the
Eine Alpensinfonie Bychkov disc once I've listened to it.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on October 22, 2014, 09:24:15 PM
Bychkov has more of a modernist bent to his approach to Strauss. It's an approach I really enjoy. And it works very well in his Elektra, too.
We had the luck of having Bychkov do
Elektra at Madrid's Teatro Real a couple of seasons ago (with Deborah Polaski in the title role, Rosalind Plowright as Clytemnestra and Ricarda Merbeth as Chrysothemis, directed by K.H. Gruber and with sets by Anselm Kiefer) and he was spectacular in it! The orchestra seemed transformed from being a competent pit band to a world-class ensemble, and Bychkov managed to set an excellent dramatic pace in this score, while not loosing sight of the orchestral detail. Very, very good! :)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 23, 2014, 02:47:39 AM
Only listened to Disc 1, and snuck in the final 10 minutes because it's an amazing ending, of Sawallisch's Die Frau ohne Schatten on EMI...DD made a great rec, it's beautifully performed. I've read several times it lacks the power of Solti's, which was even used as a negative, and they're right. But Sawallisch and Co. create a more lyrical power, a smooth flowing river of sound rather than a large, crashing waterfall. Not saying either one is correct, but it's a great contrast to study, and there is definitely some clarity in the EMI that is lost in the Decca. Im excited to get to the rest of Sawallisch's Die Frau, the more I listen to this opera, the easier it is to call it Strauss' best.
Thanks, DD.
Whew! Now I can exhale. ;D And you're welcome, GS.
That's great to hear it's working out so far. Yeah, Schatten really is a work that can take two drastically different approaches, such as Solti and Sawallisch, and still come out crackling.
And "lyrical power" hits it right on the head, too - both the work and Sawallisch's approach.
Quote from: karlhenning on October 23, 2014, 04:34:14 AM
Heard that live at Old South Church on Copley Square (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_South_Church)! No recording can equal that 8)
Beautiful church, Karl, inside and out. And what a venue to hear a roof-raising piece!
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 23, 2014, 06:38:13 AM
A more modernist bent in Strauss? I'm so there! Thanks, DD. I'll definitely post my thoughts on the Eine Alpensinfonie Bychkov disc once I've listened to it.
Awesome!
Quote from: ritter on October 23, 2014, 06:54:14 AM
We had the luck of having Bychkov do Elektra at Madrid's Teatro Real a couple of seasons ago (with Deborah Polaski in the title role, Rosalind Plowright as Clytemnestra and Ricarda Merbeth as Chrysothemis, directed by K.H. Gruber and with sets by Anselm Kiefer) and he was spectacular in it! The orchestra seemed transformed from being a competent pit band to a world-class ensemble, and Bychkov managed to set an excellent dramatic pace in this score, while not loosing sight of the orchestral detail. Very, very good! :)
Thanks for sharing that! This sense of "an orchestra outdoing itself" is exactly what comes across in Bychkov's recording, too. I can only imagine it live! :o
Cross-posted from 'Purchases' thread -
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 23, 2014, 05:59:36 PM
Just bought:
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000005Z6O.01.L.jpg)
Apparently, a pretty rare disc as it's OOP. Got a pretty decent price on it considering lack of availability. This particular ballet is seldom performed and me, being the sucker I am for ballet music, I had to have this recording.
Does anyone know this ballet? It seems to not get recorded or even recognized very much for whatever reason. I listened to the audio samples via Amazon and they sounded quite nice. Of course, you can't tell much from the little time they give you listen to samples.
Edit: I went to NML and listened to the free 15 minute preview of this recording and it sounded freakin' fantastic! Top-drawer Strauss? Maybe!
A little background information on Schlagobers:
Schlagobers (literally, "Whipped Cream") is a ballet in two acts that Strauss began in 1921 and completed in 1922. It was first performed on 9 May 1924 at the Vienna State Opera during a Strauss Festival that commemorated the composer's sixtieth birthday. Despite the joyful occasion and the good intentions behind it, Schlagobers was poorly received and has not become part of the repertoire. In the 1940s interest in filming the ballet emerged, but this project was not pursued further. Instead, Strauss derived a suite from the score in the mid-1940s to preserve the best music from the ballet. (The suite was neither performed nor published in the composer's lifetime.)
The reception of Schlagobers may be tied to its subject matter, which deals more with Viennese culture. It may be argued that this rather narrow focus prevented a more general reception of the work. At the same time, the impulse behind the ballet is dangerously close to that of Peter Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker, which already had a firm place in the repertoire. An extremely inspired score would have been necessary to displace the Nutcracker in the 1920s, let alone in the succeeding decades.
In context, though, Schlagobers points up the connection between Strauss and Vienna. By the time he wrote this ballet, Strauss had a strong relationship with the city. Vienna is the setting of Der Rosenkavalier, albeit at the time of Empress Maria Theresa; furthermore, several of his other operas were successfully premiered in Vienna. In October 1919, Strauss become joint director of the Vienna Opera and moved there in December of that year. In composing Schlagobers, Strauss paid tribute to the city and culture that had become an important part of his life. If the ballet was not on par with the opera Der Rosenkavalier, it nevertheless succeeded in other, more subtle ways.
[Article taken from All Music Guide]
I have two other recordings, on LP (of course, I'm a senior) Lyrichord LLP LLST 741, Erich Kloss conducting the Frankenland State S.O. and on cd Denon CO-73 414 the Tokyo Metopolitan S.O,, Hiroshi Wakasugi cond. not right at hand but think it had lots of track or index numbers so you could follow along with the notes and keep up with the 'plot'. It reminds me of the Bourgeois Gentilhomme music.
Do look also for Josephslegende (op.63) which would be great to see, rather like Respighi's Belkis, Queen of Sheba for big orchestra orientalism.
And while I'm here, a plug for the op.66 song cycle Krämerspiegel which shows Strauss with a real sense of humour, and one which DGG refused to print the words for one of the songs on a LP jacket because 'it wasn't very nice' (my paraphrase).
Quote from: listener on October 23, 2014, 11:51:24 PM
I have two other recordings, on LP (of course, I'm a senior) Lyrichord LLP LLST 741, Erich Kloss conducting the Frankenland State S.O. and on cd Denon CO-73 414 the Tokyo Metopolitan S.O,, Hiroshi Wakasugi cond. not right at hand but think it had lots of track or index numbers so you could follow along with the notes and keep up with the 'plot'. It reminds me of the Bourgeois Gentilhomme music.
Do look also for Josephslegende (op.63) which would be great to see, rather like Respighi's Belkis, Queen of Sheba for big orchestra orientalism.
And while I'm here, a plug for the op.66 song cycle Krämerspiegel which shows Strauss with a real sense of humour, and one which DGG refused to print the words for one of the songs on a LP jacket because 'it wasn't very nice' (my paraphrase).
Very cool, listener. Of course, I've heard, and own,
Josephslegende, but it's been awhile since I've given it listen. I actually have Sinopoli's recording included in the Decca box I have coming, so I might wait and listen to that performance before I dig back into the Jarvi and Fischer performances I own.
BTW, Respighi's
Belkis is FANTASTIC! Love that
War Dance movement. 8)
Favorite performance of Four Last Songs anyone? I really like Gundula Janowitz with HvK/Berliners.
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 27, 2014, 11:13:19 AM
Favorite performance of Four Last Songs anyone? I really like Gundula Janowitz with HvK/Berliners.
many good ones available, but favorite goes to
Jessye Norman and the Gewandhausorchester Leipzig, conducted by Kurt Masur
http://www.youtube.com/v/envQ-ZqGQu8
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 27, 2014, 11:33:44 AM
many good ones available, but favorite goes to Jessye Norman and the Gewandhausorchester Leipzig, conducted by Kurt Masur
http://www.youtube.com/v/envQ-ZqGQu8
This Norman/Masur performance is pretty cheap actually.
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 27, 2014, 12:02:37 PM
This Norman/Masur performance is pretty cheap actually.
Cheap in terms of price, or cheap in another meaning??? I think its close to sublime :)
Quote from: ritter on October 27, 2014, 12:13:51 PM
Cheap in terms of price, or cheap in another meaning??? I think its close to sublime :)
Price of course. Don't think I could ever call a Jessye Norman performance cheap as in sleazy or whatever. :)
FYI, I bought that Norman/Masur recording of
Four Last Songs. Thanks for the rec, Greg.
BTW, I have to tip my hat towards Dancing Divertimentian. Bychkov's Ein Heldenleben may be one of the finest I've heard. Next up will be his Metamorphosen, which I'm sure will be equally impressive.
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 27, 2014, 12:15:42 PM
Price of course. Don't think I could ever call a Jessye Norman performance cheap as in sleazy or whatever. :)
Confusión clarified, then! :) Hope you enjoy this wonderful rendition...glorious!
Bringing this over from the WAYLT thread:
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 27, 2014, 12:41:04 PM
Didn't you also highly recommend the Bychkov Elektra as well? I've already put this on my Christmas wishlist. Cheers!
Yes, sure did. It's similar in conception to his
Heldenleben. Should satisfy. One thing that's for sure to satisfy is the sonics. Richly and deeply recorded.
Quote from: ritter on October 27, 2014, 12:49:46 PM
Confusión clarified, then! :) Hope you enjoy this wonderful rendition...glorious!
Thanks, ritter. 8)
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on October 27, 2014, 12:56:46 PM
Bringing this over from the WAYLT thread:
Yes, sure did. It's similar in conception to his Heldenleben. Should satisfy. One thing that's for sure to satisfy is the sonics. Richly and deeply recorded.
If this is the case, then I'm all onboard the Bychkov Straussian Express! Choo, choo! :D
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 27, 2014, 01:24:07 PM
If this is the case, then I'm all onboard the Bychkov Straussian Express! Choo, choo! :D
;D
I received this BBC Magazine January 2014 featuring Strauss today:
(http://magazines.magazineclonercdn.com/covers/72326.jpg)
The magazine came with the accompanying CD:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/RICHARD-STRAUSS-Also-Sprach-Zarathustra-Tod-und-Verklarung-BBC-NOW-Steen-Ono-/00/s/MTQ2OVgxNjAw/z/lNEAAOxyRhBSuqmJ/$_35.JPG)
Also sprach Zarathustra
Tod und Verklarung
Jac van Steen, Kazushi Ono - conductors
BBC National Orchestra of Wales
Here's a question:
I already own Kempe's Strauss orchestral set (EMI) in the OOP green box but I see that the new Kempe set reissued through Warner Classics has been remastered. Is there a significant improvement over the remasters compared to the older set?
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 27, 2014, 05:07:46 PM
Here's a question:
I already own Kempe's Strauss orchestral set (EMI) in the OOP green box but I see that the new Kempe set reissued through Warner Classics has been remastered. Is there a significant improvement over the remasters compared to the older set?
According to Mr. Hurwitz:
QuoteThis reissue also claims to have been "newly remastered from the original source tapes." That claim is believable. The sonics, always very good, are indeed more vividly present than previously, if only marginally so. For comparison I include excerpts from the opening of Don Juan in the EMI Masters series and the present (Warner Classics) edition. The differences, even in an mp3, are detectable, though not huge (sound clips). Those who want these performances in their best CD incarnations yet might want to consider springing for this set. However, if you already own it in one of its many prior incarnations, and you are perfectly happy, then there is no special urgency to upgrade.
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=1064157
Quote from: NLK1971 on October 28, 2014, 12:02:54 PM
According to Mr. Hurwitz:http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=1064157
Thanks. Decisions, decisions....
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 27, 2014, 12:17:16 PM
BTW, I have to tip my hat towards Dancing Divertimentian. Bychkov's Ein Heldenleben may be one of the finest I've heard. Next up will be his Metamorphosen, which I'm sure will be equally impressive.
Do you know the Nelsons recording with the CBSO, John? Outstanding. :)
Quote from: madaboutmahler on October 29, 2014, 10:17:15 AM
Do you know the Nelsons recording with the CBSO, John? Outstanding. :)
I do not, Daniel, but I'm not a great fan of Nelsons conducting. I'm pretty set on
Ein Heldenleben performances now. 8) I still have Thielemann's on the way and then that's the last one I'm going to buy I think. My current favorites are Reiner/CSO and Bychkov/Cologne RSO. Thanks for the recommendation, though. :)
Richard Strauss: Eine Alpensinfonie BP/Karajan
Just listened to Karajan's 1980 performance of 'Eine Alpensinfonie' for the first time and was blown away. I have listened quite a bit to this composition over the last year and had settled on Kempe's rendition as my "champion". Kempe's recording is excellent. After hearing Karajan I am no longer so sure which one I prefer. The performance was astounding and literally brought me to the ascent of the mountain in Strauss' tone poem. A fantastic performance! Well, at least I now can let Kempe and Karajan take turns when I wish to listen to Strauss' enchanting composition. Are there other renditions that are possible rivals to Kempe and Karajan?
[asin] B000001GK2[/asin]
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 29, 2014, 05:47:35 PM
I do not, Daniel, but I'm not a great fan of Nelsons conducting. I'm pretty set on Ein Heldenleben performances now. 8) I still have Thielemann's on the way and then that's the last one I'm going to buy I think. My current favorites are Reiner/CSO and Bychkov/Cologne RSO. Thanks for the recommendation, though. :)
Ah, what is it about Nelsons that you do not like? I haven't heard the Bychkov yet so may explore at some point..
As for favourite Alpine symphony, Moonfish, Wit on Naxos is very very good. Karajan is indeed hard to beat in this work though.
Quote from: madaboutmahler on November 03, 2014, 07:20:13 AM
Ah, what is it about Nelsons that you do not like? I haven't heard the Bychkov yet so may explore at some point..
As for favourite Alpine symphony, Moonfish, Wit on Naxos is very very good. Karajan is indeed hard to beat in this work though.
My Strauss phase has officially ended, but I can't quite put my finger on what it is in Nelsons' conducting that I didn't enjoy, but I didn't feel anything from his performance of
Ein Heldenleben. Thankfully, I only own a few Nelsons recordings and his Strauss isn't one of them. I do, however, like his Shostakovich.
I must admit that it was his Strauss that got me so excited about Nelsons, watching his Der Rosenkav suite with the Berlin Phil on the Digital Concert Hall!
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 03, 2014, 07:25:39 AM
My Strauss phase has officially ended, but I can't quite put my finger on what it is in Nelsons' conducting that I didn't enjoy, but I didn't feel anything from his performance of Ein Heldenleben. Thankfully, I only own a few Nelsons recordings and his Strauss isn't one of them. I do, however, like his Shostakovich.
Strauss phases never end..... >:D
Quote from: Moonfish on November 03, 2014, 07:54:44 AM
Strauss phases never end..... >:D
Mine do. :) I always seem to go back to the same composers after these phases have ended: Britten, Schnittke, Hartmann, Schoenberg, Berg, Bartok, Ravel, etc.
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 03, 2014, 07:56:45 AM
Mine do. :) I always seem to go back to the same composers after these phases have ended: Britten, Schnittke, Hartmann, Schoenberg, Berg, Bartok, Ravel, etc.
Interesting! I just can't see myself not having a dose of Strauss on a regular basis! 0:)
Quote from: Moonfish on November 03, 2014, 08:01:20 AM
Interesting! I just can't see myself not having a dose of Strauss on a regular basis! 0:)
Well, this speaks of your own personal preferences, which mine are, obviously, much different than yours.
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 03, 2014, 08:05:33 AM
Well, this speaks of your own personal preferences, which mine are, obviously, much different than yours.
Hey, how was that BBC magazine issue focusing on R Strauss?
Quote from: Moonfish on November 03, 2014, 07:54:44 AM
Strauss phases never end..... >:D
+1
Mine has been lasting for just over 20 years now.
Quote from: Moonfish on November 03, 2014, 08:06:54 AM
Hey, how was that BBC magazine issue focusing on R Strauss?
I looked over it but haven't really dove into the article itself (yet). It'll be a few years before I get back to Strauss.
Could anybody recommend a good Strauss biography?
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on November 03, 2014, 08:09:53 AM
+1
Mine has been lasting for just over 20 years now.
Take 2 Stravinsky and call me in the morning.
(That's my standard joke for Mahlerians >:D)
Heard Metamorphosen and Tod und Verlkärung recently. Holy shit.
Anyone who accuses Strauss of being incapable of nothing but empty turgid orchestral bombing, with no sense of sophisticated, refine sounding music... should listen to Metamorphosen. The way you can see ghost of Beethoven at the background, yet sounding nothing like cheap imitation... And the music makes even greater impression when thinking about how utterly Germany was destroyed during composition of this piece. Certainly the head of state was guilty of monstrous crimes against humanity... but war is always devastating and suffering of many germans can be felt through this piece. This composition is so divinely humane. There is no other word for it. It is humane.
And so is Tod und Verklärung, even though it is very different from Metamorphosen, containing plenty of orchestral bombing, but I'd say every measure of it is fully justified and pure awesomeness. I'm sorry I sound like worshipping fanboy but I am so dumb-struck by these tremendous works. This just might be my favorite tone poem from Strauss, almost beating Alpine symphony and Heldenleben. Almost. Let's say it's a tie. Bit surprising how I, the great Romanticism lover, haven't earlier heard these two. Although Metamorphosen doesn't strike me as Romantic exactly. I still have many important compositions from Strauss unheard.
Never mind, Tod und verlkärung is better than Heldenleben, at least for now. I think I've heard heldenleben bit too many times, it's starting a bit to annoy me at some parts. Alpine symphony though is still at least as good as Tod.
R Strauss:
Vier Letzte Lieder
Cappricio (excerpt)
Arabella (excerpt)
Elisabeth Schwarzkopf/Philharmonia O/Ackermann
I listened to this recording while driving home in the dark and was utterly enchanted. I cannot put my finger on if this was due to Schwarzkopf's voice and ability to modulate her voice in German or if it was Strauss' perplexing wave of sounds washing over my psyche. It was likely a combination of both. I now have a renewed interest in Schwarzkopf and ponder listening to her in the "Der Rosenkavalier".
[asin] B0001O3Y76[/asin]
from
[asin] B004HF0PAO[/asin]
Quote from: Alberich on November 29, 2014, 08:26:57 AM
Heard Metamorphosen and Tod und Verlkärung recently. Holy shit.
Anyone who accuses Strauss of being incapable of nothing but empty turgid orchestral bombing, with no sense of sophisticated, refine sounding music... should listen to Metamorphosen. The way you can see ghost of Beethoven at the background, yet sounding nothing like cheap imitation... And the music makes even greater impression when thinking about how utterly Germany was destroyed during composition of this piece. Certainly the head of state was guilty of monstrous crimes against humanity... but war is always devastating and suffering of many germans can be felt through this piece. This composition is so divinely humane. There is no other word for it. It is humane.
And so is Tod und Verklärung, even though it is very different from Metamorphosen, containing plenty of orchestral bombing, but I'd say every measure of it is fully justified and pure awesomeness. I'm sorry I sound like worshipping fanboy but I am so dumb-struck by these tremendous works. This just might be my favorite tone poem from Strauss, almost beating Alpine symphony and Heldenleben. Almost. Let's say it's a tie. Bit surprising how I, the great Romanticism lover, haven't earlier heard these two. Although Metamorphosen doesn't strike me as Romantic exactly. I still have many important compositions from Strauss unheard.
You are right Alberich! Metamorphosen moves right into one's soul in its intricate layers and power. It is a magnificent piece that seem to unravel in different ways every time one listens to it!
I remember someone describing Schwarzkopf in the Four Last Songs as, 'Slush corner.' Some seem not to be able to disentangle the Romantic spirit from the superficial. Those songs may be affectionate and easy to listen to, but they are masterpieces of word painting and orchestration. Strauss did like the big wallow, but have a look at some of his late operas, tough nuts to crack and not crowd pleasers. Rosenkavalier is as superficial as Marriage of Figaro.
Schwarzkopf is sometimes accused of being arch. But I think that in the Karajan Rosenkavalier she makes the words really tell and shows the depth of regret at time passing for her. She keeps this in proportion and does not turn this into tragedy, but conveys a pragmatic woman coming to terms with ageing. She sings on the word, not oversinging, but moving it conversationally.
I have the disc you mention Moonfish, I find it typical of her art, thought through and musicianly, also magical, which is what raises much of her work above the level of being merely very good.
Mike
Repost from the Best of 2014 thread...
I have to add one more 2014 release that I just recently purchased.
I've been pretty stale on recent Zarathustra recordings, feels like it's been a while since I've heard a newer performace of the piece that really struck me. The Roth/Strauss series is turning out to be a good one, but this is the first truly great entry. A real fresh reading that seems to objectively focus on the overall pacing and connection of the various movements. I'm a huge admirer of Sinopoli's larger than life rendition with the heavy-sounding forces of the New York Phil, so I was surprised that Roth & Co. struck me so much. But in the struggle of composer vs. conductor it seems Roth is taking a back seat here allowing Strauss' score to do all the talking. I would also be inclined to call the orchestra's playing as flawless, effortlessly adjusting between the lighter and darker tones of the work.
Oh yeah, and an excellent Aus Italian is added. This disc now makes me anxious to hear their Alpine and Domestica, which are hopefully planned.
[asin]B00LHDG6GQ[/asin]
Well since I started to listening to lieds by Brahms, I guess I could do the same with Strauss. :)
Question: Wikipedia claims op. 49 songs were orchestrated 1918 but no matter how hard I try, the only lied from those eight I can find in orchestral form is Waldseligkeit, the no.1. Were the other 7 songs ever orchestrated at all?
Waldseligkeit shows remarkable Tristan influence, if you ask me. I guess he wasn't that personal in style with operas and lieder back in 1901 when he wrote Waldseligkeit. Not as personal as with tone poems at that point, anyway. I drool over this lied but I really would like to find no. 2 Im goldener fülle orchestrated (if it ever even was, damn you wikipedia).
Any news from Strauss's house?
Quote from: Alberich on November 29, 2014, 08:26:57 AM
Heard Metamorphosen and Tod und Verlkärung recently. Holy shit.
Anyone who accuses Strauss of being incapable of nothing but empty turgid orchestral bombing, with no sense of sophisticated, refine sounding music... should listen to Metamorphosen. The way you can see ghost of Beethoven at the background, yet sounding nothing like cheap imitation... And the music makes even greater impression when thinking about how utterly Germany was destroyed during composition of this piece. Certainly the head of state was guilty of monstrous crimes against humanity... but war is always devastating and suffering of many germans can be felt through this piece. This composition is so divinely humane. There is no other word for it. It is humane.
And so is Tod und Verklärung, even though it is very different from Metamorphosen, containing plenty of orchestral bombing, but I'd say every measure of it is fully justified and pure awesomeness. I'm sorry I sound like worshipping fanboy but I am so dumb-struck by these tremendous works. This just might be my favorite tone poem from Strauss, almost beating Alpine symphony and Heldenleben. Almost. Let's say it's a tie. Bit surprising how I, the great Romanticism lover, haven't earlier heard these two. Although Metamorphosen doesn't strike me as Romantic exactly. I still have many important compositions from Strauss unheard.
Metamorphosen,
Tod und Verklärung,
Ein Heldenleben, and
Eine Alpensinfonie are all incredible works. I would have a difficult time choosing my favorite even though I'm inclined to give
Ein Heldenleben the nod.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 24, 2015, 05:05:20 PM
Any news from Strauss's house?
John,
I am quite in awe of Strauss' music at this point. Today I listened carefully to
Tod und Verklärung [Kempe - below] and found myself drawn to its soundscape. Sometimes I wonder why I didn't sense these qualities in the music years back? I used to step back from Strauss' works. Amazing! Now he is one of the three composers I'm most interested in exploring in much greater depth.
Kempe really knows how to bring the Staatskapelle Dresden alive!
[asin] B00FJZQRR6[/asin]
Quote from: Moonfish on March 24, 2015, 07:33:30 PM
John,
I am quite in awe of Strauss' music at this point. Today I listened carefully to Tod und Verklärung [Kempe - below] and found myself drawn to its soundscape. Sometimes I wonder why I didn't sense these qualities in the music years back? I used to step back from Strauss' works. Amazing! Now he is one of the three composers I'm most interested in exploring in much greater depth.
Kempe really knows how to bring the Staatskapelle Dresden alive!
[asin] B00FJZQRR6[/asin]
Kempe is certainly excellent in Strauss no question about it. I listened to his
Eine Alpensinfonie and was blown away by it. I got the same thrill from this performance as I did HvK's on DG. I'm still making my way through the Kempe set and there are a few things in the set that I have no interest in like his arrangements of other composers' music, but the tone poems and concertante works definitely will be devoured over the next week. 8)
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 24, 2015, 05:10:52 PM
Metamorphosen, Tod und Verklärung, Ein Heldenleben, and Eine Alpensinfonie are all incredible works. I would have a difficult time choosing my favorite even though I'm inclined to give Ein Heldenleben the nod.
Heldenleben was the first tone poem of his that I heard. Excellent composition to start with. 8)
Quote from: Alberich on March 25, 2015, 01:28:46 AMHeldenleben was the first tone poem of his that I heard. Excellent composition to start with. 8)
Indeed. I think I started with
Don Juan first or happened to have heard this one before any others. This has been a while back.
Picked up this set today with great anticipation. The Lieder realm is relatively new for me although Strauss' soundscape has become a fascinating and vivid realm to traverse. I understand that this set brings forward numerous songs which previously have been very hard to access. It will certainly be an interesting journey. Any specific lieder performances that are "required" in Strauss's House? Recommendations?
[asin] B00JRCQ2P4[/asin]
Apart from the 4 last songs one of the most famous ones (and admittedly the only one that really stuck in my brain from the two anthology discs or so I have) is "Morgen"
I recommend op. 49, particularly Waldseligkeit and In goldener fülle. The four last songs also without saying.
I'm fond of Drei Lieder Op.29: No.1, Traum Durch die Dämmerung (http://open.spotify.com/track/4i5vR85h0YQB5tSkKFGguD). The piano accompaniment is more to my taste than the orchestral version.
R Strauss: Tod und Verklärung April, 1942
RCO/Mengelberg
A third session with this disc. Strauss' tone poem was actually enhanced by the darkness of the slightly muddy historical sound in the recording. Every time I listen to Strauss' tone poems I realize that I need to invest more time in his operas. Tod und Verklärung is such a beautiful composition. What kind of reputation does Mengelberg have with R Strauss? If this recording of the tone poem is an example of what Mengelberg can accomplish I would be eager to explore other recordings. Does anybody know if the Naxos issue below (bottom) is the same recording as the one in the RCO box I just listened to? Anyways, great music! Strauss!!!
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51xD-4PrnAL.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81exrUxU61L._SL1500_.jpg)
Is this the same live recording of Tod und Verklärung from 1942?
[asin] B00005RT4W[/asin]
fresh from Forbes:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GS9pLMtbk04/VIB7VKbHqeI/AAAAAAAAHvs/QnxWx_SUGxc/s1600/Forbes_SOUND_ADVICE_laurson_2_600.jpg)
AUG 22, 2015
The Boston Symphony At Grafenegg Or: The Haydn
Ghetto
...If that be a rule, namely not to play Haydn first (and it really should be), this
performance did not bother to deviate from it. Predictably, the Haydn (or the
orchestra) sounded not remotely as good as it should have. The horns, for
one, were a long way from the standard the BSO (or any orchestra, amateur
and professional alike) sets itself, and in every single movement. And while
there was a spot of grace here and there to be found, it would have taken a lot
tighter playing and more energetic wit to get the juices flowing. I'm not saying
that the first movement was directly responsible for a woman passing out
before the Lincoln Town Car-style Andante (she recovered), but it cannot
have helped. Only with much benevolence could one try to blame it on the
orchestra's size: A little too big for Haydn and a little too small for the Wolken-
turm stage, but then there's no reason to fudge it: This was a dead-boring,
flaccid performance, like a formerly great white wine that lost all acidity...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2015/09/13/the-boston-symphony-at-grafenegg-or-the-haydn-ghetto_happpy40thbirthday_jfl_nelsons_/
(http://blogs-images.forbes.com/jenslaurson/files/2015/09/Schloss_Nachmittag-Foto_Alexander_Haiden_jens-f-laurson_800.jpg) (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2015/09/13/the-boston-symphony-at-grafenegg-or-the-haydn-ghetto_happpy40thbirthday_jfl_nelsons_/)
Grafenegg Castle
Picture courtesy Grafenegg Festival, © Andreas Hofer
Quote from: Ken B on July 15, 2014, 08:42:22 AM
The one I really dislike but always have even when I was a Strauss head is Domestica.
I have never cared much for Domestica, either. Then again, haven't heard it too often...
Quote from: Alberich on January 26, 2015, 03:07:29 AM
Question: Wikipedia claims op. 49 songs were orchestrated 1918 but no matter how hard I try, the only lied from those eight I can find in orchestral form is Waldseligkeit, the no.1. Were the other 7 songs ever orchestrated at all?
Waldseligkeit shows remarkable Tristan influence, if you ask me. I guess he wasn't that personal in style with operas and lieder back in 1901 when he wrote Waldseligkeit. Not as personal as with tone poems at that point, anyway. I drool over this lied but I really would like to find no. 2 Im goldener fülle orchestrated (if it ever even was, damn you wikipedia).
I'm pretty sure only Op.49.1 was orchestrated. It is the only one of the set represented in the Nightingale 3-CD set of the complete orchestral songs.
Fell in love with 2nd horn concerto. The first one was great, don't get me wrong, but the first two movements of the second are unbelievably beautiful.
I think my favorite of the Four last songs has to be September. There is probably only one other composer I can think capable of writing so autumnal, gently smiling music, and that composer is Brahms. Not sure if Strauss would have been flattered by that remark.
Quote from: Alberich on September 23, 2015, 10:43:09 AM
I have never cared much for Domestica, either. Then again, haven't heard it too often...
I heard it live by the NY Philharmonic some years back, and thought it was a total mess. Better the wild Strauss than the domesticated.
Classical CD Of The Week: Domestic Violins & Four Last Songs for Chorus (http://bit.ly/CDoftheWeek009)
It's easy to be dismissive about Richard Strauss' Sinfonia Domestica, with its purported or actual
depiction of his eggs sunny-side-up for breakfast, afternoon nap, and a digestive movement (ma
non troppo). And although it's likely Strauss was deliberately poking fun at the symphonic tradition
with his juxtaposition of the most banal topicality, he didn't compose his 9th (of 10) tone poem
just as a lark...
(http://blogs-images.forbes.com/jenslaurson/files/2016/04/Forbes_Classica-CD-of-the-Week_PENTATONE_Strauss_Janowski_Tageszeiten_Laurson_1200-1200x469.jpg)
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2016/04/27/classical-cd-of-the-week-domestic-violins-four-last-songs-for-chorus/ (http://bit.ly/CDoftheWeek009)
direct: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2016/04/27/classical-cd-of-the-week-domestic-violins-four-last-songs-for-chorus/#5575570d50de
Good to see someone flag-waving for this work!
I would also like to listen to Ein Heldenleben, Alpensinfonie, 4 Last Songs ....
New Yorker Cartoon (Side Eight is last 20 min of Karajan LP version)
The 1st version of Feuer-Snot (about dangers of Rhinitis), was not well received, but a clever libretto-change fixed it.
More horrible Strauss-opera puns on Twitter at: #UnknownStrauss (https://twitter.com/hashtag/UnknownStrauss?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)
Quote from: jlaurson on August 21, 2016, 01:01:37 PM
The 1st version of Feuer-Snot (about dangers of Rhinitis),
;D :D ;D ...a most unfortunate title for an opera.
Sarge
(http://blogs-images.forbes.com/jenslaurson/files/2017/01/Forbes-Best-Classical-Recordings-of-2016-N08-Strauss-Rosenkavalier-Elektra-Honeck-Pittsburgh-Reference_laurson-1200x470.jpg?width=960) (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2017/01/01/the-10-best-classical-recordings-of-2016-new-releases/#207026276802)
The 10 Best Classical Recordings Of 2016 (New Releases)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1HzdAWXgAArnYh.jpg)
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2017/01/01/the-10-best-classical-recordings-of-2016-new-releases/#7799de0e6802 (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2017/01/01/the-10-best-classical-recordings-of-2016-new-releases/#7799de0e6802)
began writing at 6? :laugh:
I don't knjow how i got on Strauss... oh yes, I stumbled over 'Metamorphosen' and remembered he was supposed to be a BadBoy at one time... anyhow, what could I possible want here beyond the ubiquitous Karajan? I've tried the Philips 2CD with a bunch of wind material, Alpine... a few things which I could never get into. I think I have 'Don Juan' somewhere... and a song or two in a mix...
never have really listened to 'Thus Spake...' all the way through... or anything all the way through...
eh?
btw- Strauss's Haus, not "house", c'mon people let's get it together!!!
Quote from: snyprrr on March 26, 2017, 05:08:25 PM
began writing at 6? :laugh:
I don't knjow how i got on Strauss... oh yes, I stumbled over 'Metamorphosen' and remembered he was supposed to be a BadBoy at one time... anyhow, what could I possible want here beyond the ubiquitous Karajan? I've tried the Philips 2CD with a bunch of wind material, Alpine... a few things which I could never get into. I think I have 'Don Juan' somewhere... and a song or two in a mix...
never have really listened to 'Thus Spake...' all the way through... or anything all the way through...
eh?
btw- Strauss's Haus, not "house", c'mon people let's get it together!!!
Kempe recorded a ton of Strauss with Dresden. Can't go wrong starting here...
[asin]B00FJZQRR6[/asin]
Quote from: snyprrr on March 26, 2017, 05:08:25 PM
began writing at 6? :laugh:
I don't knjow how i got on Strauss... oh yes, I stumbled over 'Metamorphosen' and remembered he was supposed to be a BadBoy at one time...
The bad-boy was the Strauss of Elektra & Salome. Really,
really edgy stuff -- even still today but certainly in its time. Racy and haunted by the censors, especially in Austria-Hungary/Vienna. Also harmonically, it's wild.
Though when you listen carefully (and the Elektra-Suite that Honeck put together; reviewed in the above Forbes article), even in Elektra you find the essence of the sweet mellifluousness that would come next, with Rosenkavalier.
If you are not into opera, then Strauss is not
as important a composer to you... but still grand and quite wonderful. I think
Don Juan (http://a-fwd.to/gqWTgIi) and especially
Till Eulenspiegel (http://a-fwd.to/gqWTgIi) are excellent in every way and great starting points. ("Thus spake" can be a bit tedious and long, actually.)
Tod & Verklaerung / Death & Transfiguration (http://a-fwd.to/gqWTgIi) belongs to that group of early-to-middle tone poems, and is very different in mood; hinting more of the late, melancholic Strauss (i.e. the 1945
Metamorphosen; if he was a bad boy then, it's only because he had been loosely associated with the Nazis); in any case, it (T&V) is also a beauty. All three of them are very, very good with the early Karajan, I find.
I have a REAL weakness for the Alpine Symphony; some ridicule it but I think it's quintessential Strauss; totally engrossing and lush and I've never heard a better recording - sound or playing - than that of (surprise!)
Bernard Haitink with the (surprise again) LSO! (http://a-fwd.to/661VD9A) (See
Best of 2010 (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2010/12/best-recordings-of-2010-2.html))
Some of the late concertos are wistully beautiful, too... but before all that I'd recommend
the Sextet (http://a-fwd.to/Ad451Jq) (culled from the opera
Capriccio (http://a-fwd.to/6B1cnSq), where it serves as the overture). If that doesn't pull on your heartstrings, then you may well turn your back on Strauss. But it will!
I've never had anything nice to say about Richard Strauss so here goes:
I like the 'Festival Prelude for Organ and Orchestra' which I first heard accompanying a section on the sculptor Auguste Rodin in the TV series 'Civilisation'. Very powerful, dramatic and memorable music.
[asin]B000003D0A[/asin]
Quote from: vandermolen on September 26, 2017, 09:40:09 AM
I've never had anything nice to say about Richard Strauss so here goes:
I like the 'Festival Prelude for Organ and Orchestra' which I first heard accompanying a section on the sculptor Auguste Rodin in the TV series 'Civilisation'. Very powerful, dramatic and memorable music.
[asin]B000003D0A[/asin]
Glad you enjoyed it! ;D
However, the
Festival Prelude is the fourth best piece on that disc there. ;)
Quote from: vandermolen on September 26, 2017, 09:40:09 AM
I've never had anything nice to say about Richard Strauss so here goes:
I like the 'Festival Prelude for Organ and Orchestra' which I first heard accompanying a section on the sculptor Auguste Rodin in the TV series 'Civilisation'. Very powerful, dramatic and memorable music.
[asin]B000003D0A[/asin]
That's good news about Strauss, Jeffrey ;D
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on September 26, 2017, 11:09:58 AM
However, the Festival Prelude is the fourth best piece on that disc there. ;)
Amen!! ;D
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on September 26, 2017, 11:09:58 AM
Glad you enjoyed it! ;D
However, the Festival Prelude is the fourth best piece on that disc there. ;)
:( A great piece, especially as conducted by Bohm.
[asin]B00002DF9N[/asin]
Thanks guys :)
I recently bought the 'Alpine Symphony' so maybe there is hope for me yet.
I have often liked composers whose music is supposed to be influenced by Richard Strauss (Vitezlav Novak for example) rather than Strauss himself. Opera is something of a blindspot for me which doesn't help I guess. I will listen to the other music on the Telarc CD. The Bohm set looks good.
Quote from: vandermolen on September 26, 2017, 10:13:23 PM
Thanks guys :)
I recently bought the 'Alpine Symphony' so maybe there is hope for me yet.
I have often liked composers whose music is supposed to be influenced by Richard Strauss (Vitezlav Novak for example) rather than Strauss himself. Opera is something of a blindspot for me which doesn't help I guess. I will listen to the other music on the Telarc CD. The Bohm set looks good.
The work that 'sealed the deal' with me concerning Strauss was his
Four Last Songs. You can hear this composer's heartbeat in this music (figuratively speaking of course ;)). Check out the Jessye Norman/Masur performance on Philips. It can probably be had for a mere deutsche mark now. :)
Quote from: vandermolen on September 26, 2017, 10:13:23 PMThe Bohm set looks good.
As long as you are tolerant of old recordings...
Quote from: Scarpia on September 27, 2017, 09:35:58 PM
As long as you are tolerant of old recordings...
I'm quite a fan of historic recordings.
My new top 5:
Die Liebe der Danae
Salome
Tod und Verklärung
Alpensinfonie
Josephslegende
Danae and Josephslegende are really underrated works.
Gramophone explores Alpine Symphony recordings, follow the Twitter link below. A nice listing of performances spanning almost a century, not surprised by their top choice, but I was thrilled to see the positive mention of the Frank Shipway and Sao Paulo Symphony Orchestra's recording on BIS. In a post here on GMG from last October I said the SPSO "play their hearts out", and for the magazine Hugo Shirley writes that they "play out of their skins for him (Shipway)".
https://twitter.com/GramophoneMag/status/952099162241282049
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on January 13, 2018, 06:55:13 AM
Gramophone explores Alpine Symphony recordings, follow the Twitter link below. A nice listing of performances spanning almost a century, not surprised by their top choice, but I was thrilled to see the positive mention of the Frank Shipway and Sao Paulo Symphony Orchestra's recording on BIS. In a post here on GMG from last October I said the SPSO "play their hearts out", and for the magazine Hugo Shirley writes that they "play out of their skins for him (Shipway)".
https://twitter.com/GramophoneMag/status/952099162241282049
Cool, Greg.
Alpine Symphony is one of the all-time great works in the symphonic repertoire IMHO. HvK's account still stirs emotions inside of me that not many others have done. I know you're not a great fan of HvK's Strauss, but, for me, he always performed this music with a passion and flowing lyricism that's hardly been bettered.
Here's a direct link to that Gramophone article:
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/strauss-alpine-symphony-which-recording-to-own?utm_content=buffer09e98&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 13, 2018, 07:02:55 AM
Cool, Greg. Alpine Symphony is one of the all-time great works in the symphonic repertoire IMHO. HvK's account still stirs emotions inside of me that not many others have done. I know you're not a great fan of HvK's Strauss, but, for me, he always performed this music with a passion and flowing lyricism that's hardly been bettered.
Here's a direct link to that Gramophone article:
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/strauss-alpine-symphony-which-recording-to-own?utm_content=buffer09e98&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Hi, John. Happy New Year!
It's less of I'm not a fan of HVK's Strauss, and more of I think there's better out there. Although this is one recording that doesn't stay too far away...
https://www.amazon.com/Strauss-Karajan-Berlin-Philharmonic-Orchestra/dp/B000001GQF/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1515859737&sr=1-3&keywords=strauss+karajan
And it has been a while since I've listened to his Alpine.
Thanks for posting the link.
For me, it's still this baby:
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2010/12/best-recordings-of-2010-2.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2010/12/best-recordings-of-2010-2.html)
...and I've listened to most that have come out since or just before. Lots of great recordings, but I find that one unusually vivid, even if that's perhaps a surprise, given the conductor/orchestra. (LSO/Haitink)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on January 13, 2018, 07:10:03 AM
Hi, John. Happy New Year!
It's less of I'm not a fan of HVK's Strauss, and more of I think there's better out there. Although this is one recording that doesn't stay too far away...
https://www.amazon.com/Strauss-Karajan-Berlin-Philharmonic-Orchestra/dp/B000001GQF/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1515859737&sr=1-3&keywords=strauss+karajan
And it has been a while since I've listened to his Alpine.
Thanks for posting the link.
Happy New Year to you, too! 8) I'd like to revisit Kempe's and Sinopoli's
Alpine at some point. Also, I have the Jansons, too, in that article that they say is the 'Showcase' version. I have yet to hear it. Perhaps over the weekend I'll finally get around to it.
Latest on ClassicsToday:
Latest on @ClassicsToday: Re-revisiting the Reference: #RichardStrauss' Rosenkavalier with Karajan / @philharmonia et al. on @WarnerClassics
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpnqeZmXgAIdSru.jpg) (https://t.co/2gqhYNc3pF)
(insider)
On disc, still one of the best around.
http://www.youtube.com/v/zsTo7QxxgYg
An atomic performance!
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on July 27, 2019, 08:24:59 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/zsTo7QxxgYg
An atomic performance!
German orchestras make that rich sound built from the bass up that so suits this music.... really impressive performance for sure!
Quote from: Roasted Swan on August 07, 2019, 11:42:25 AM
German orchestras make that rich sound built from the bass up that so suits this music.... really impressive performance for sure!
Another performance with the same forces is found on this CD:
(https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-35bvwz4b63/images/stencil/1000x1000/products/11297/18632/827949062865__59201.1533789494.jpg)
Though not completely sure whether it's a different performance to that on YouTube.
I'm not a fan of the conductor -- Orozco-Estrada -- at all (from whatever I heard with him with the Tonkuenstler and on record thus) and I am more than skeptical about his taking over the VSO from Joran, but that recording is top-notch, indeed.
Recent #CDReviews on ClassicsToday:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDrzy9OXsAYY34l?format=jpg)
Karl Böhm's #AlpineSymphony Revisited
https://classicstoday.com/review/karl-bohms-alpine-symphony-revisited/ (https://classicstoday.com/review/karl-bohms-alpine-symphony-revisited/)
If you're not as much into dissonance and/or a significant move away from late Romanticism I wouldn't recommend Elektra.
Salome and Die Alpensinfonie are my favorite pieces by Strauss. I also love the 4 songs very much.
There's an entertaining dvd movie of Salome with Teresa Stratas that I recommend.
Quote from: Andy D. on September 07, 2019, 02:19:47 AM
If you're not as much into dissonance and/or a significant move away from late Romanticism I wouldn't recommend Elektra.
Salome and Die Alpensinfonie are my favorite pieces by Strauss. I also love the 4 songs very much.
There's an entertaining dvd movie of Salome with Teresa Stratas that I recommend.
I love all those pieces as well, Andy. I get the pleasure of hearing Renee Fleming perform the Four Last Songs in less than two weeks with the Winnipeg Symphony Orchestra.
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on September 07, 2019, 08:14:23 AM
My ongoing Alpine-Symphony Marathon:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ED2LuLhXUAEvi1Z?format=jpg&name=small%5B/url%5D %20%5Bimg%20width=200%5Dhttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDvB8iNWkAYPH3n?format=jpg&name=small) (http://)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ED36y2RWwAIScUt?format=jpg&name=small) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDfmZ8wWsAAENAt?format=jpg&name=small) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDig33VW4AIyRgN?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDTHIA7X4AAK8tV?format=jpg&name=small) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDZEOhtXoAA0-PS?format=jpg&name=small) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDdlssAX4AAaFyz?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDJ_PGMXUAEeIgz?format=jpg&name=small) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDMuX_rUEAARstY?format=jpg&name=small) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDPhEQMXYAY7Vl4?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ECy8KD8XkAAJwWY?format=jpg&name=small) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EC9PTv0WsAA5n2g?format=jpg&name=small) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDCvyZlWkAAwbak?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5FuvxrWsAAwx0G?format=jpg&name=small) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EClfwQlXsAABlTe?format=jpg&name=small) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ECvvdLKWkAAl8DN?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4hGCxVWwAUR24s?format=jpg&name=small)
I admire your stamina! How many recordings a day? As much as I like this pinnacle of orchestral music, in my case, I couldn't stand more than three listens.
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on September 07, 2019, 11:36:22 AM
I admire your stamina! How many recordings a day? As much as I like this pinnacle of orchestral music, in my case, I couldn't stand more than three listens.
I could probably listen to five a day, if I found the time. But there's much other listening going on right now, so I managed max. 2 per day.
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on September 07, 2019, 11:36:22 AM
I admire your stamina! How many recordings a day? As much as I like this pinnacle of orchestral music, in my case, I couldn't stand more than three listens.
Scary how many of those versions I know. But WOT!!! - No Wit/Weimar Staatskappelle on Naxos..... in the midst of many favourites you list that is one near the summit (geddit!) of my enjoyment
Quote from: Roasted Swan on September 07, 2019, 01:52:23 PM
Scary how many of those versions I know. But WOT!!! - No Wit/Weimar Staatskappelle on Naxos..... in the midst of many favourites you list that is one near the summit (geddit!) of my enjoyment
Summit! Very good. It's an ongoing process. I'll take a peak (geddit!). I don't have that recording yet, but that's an obstacle I shall -- wait for it -- surmount! :-)
Do you review them on your blog, Jens? I'm very interested on your views on all these recordings. 40 years ago the Alpine Symphony was sniffed at. Now it's all the rage (with good reason).
Quote from: André on September 07, 2019, 03:00:53 PM
Do you review them on your blog, Jens? I'm very interested on your views on all these recordings. 40 years ago the Alpine Symphony was sniffed at. Now it's all the rage (with good reason).
For those that I don't get a review in on ClassicsToday (or where my opinion differs too wildly from the ClassicsToday opinion), that's a good idea! I've always loved that work and never quite understood it being pooh-poohed.
-----
Happy 70th Deathaversary, Richard!(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ED7eemhWsAAw9jU?format=jpg&name=small)
#morninglistening in memory of #RichardStrauss who died today, 70 years ago.
(http://a-fwd.to/kiEBrk5)
Go for it ! ;)
My ongoing Alpine-Symphony Marathon:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ED2LuLhXUAEvi1Z?format=jpg&name=small%5B/url%5D %20%5Bimg%20width=200%5Dhttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDvB8iNWkAYPH3n?format=jpg&name=small) (http://)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ED36y2RWwAIScUt?format=jpg&name=small) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDfmZ8wWsAAENAt?format=jpg&name=small) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDig33VW4AIyRgN?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDTHIA7X4AAK8tV?format=jpg&name=small) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDZEOhtXoAA0-PS?format=jpg&name=small) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDdlssAX4AAaFyz?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDJ_PGMXUAEeIgz?format=jpg&name=small) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDMuX_rUEAARstY?format=jpg&name=small) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDPhEQMXYAY7Vl4?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ECy8KD8XkAAJwWY?format=jpg&name=small) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EC9PTv0WsAA5n2g?format=jpg&name=small) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDCvyZlWkAAwbak?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5FuvxrWsAAwx0G?format=jpg&name=small) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EClfwQlXsAABlTe?format=jpg&name=small) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ECvvdLKWkAAl8DN?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4hGCxVWwAUR24s?format=jpg&name=small) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ED5IwxSXoAAo_QE?format=jpg&name=small) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ED2LuLhXUAEvi1Z?format=jpg&name=small)
(http://xxxx) (https://66.media.tumblr.com/05ca3199e37f3a787f2b898169891499/tumblr_pxmv4v4imT1tv9038o1_540.jpg) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEBezbaXYAAqkQA?format=jpg&name=small) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EENX3UFXYAAA3aO?format=jpg&name=small)
Cover-art check: More than half the covers go with the tried-and-true picture of mountains/alps in some way. :-) (So did the original EMI release of Welser-Moest's Alpine Symphony... but it went with the re-issue.
Mehta's Berliner Phil is one of my favourite versions. I look forward to read your opinion on all these recordings !!
Quote from: André on September 11, 2019, 04:43:39 PM
Mehta's Berliner Phil is one of my favourite versions. I look forward to read your opinion on all these recordings !!
I still have to track that down. Mehta's LA recording certainly disappointed me and wasn't at all as I often found it described (i.e. hyper-romantic).
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on September 08, 2019, 01:12:54 AM
For those that I don't get a review in on ClassicsToday (or where my opinion differs too wildly from the ClassicsToday opinion), that's a good idea! I've always loved that work and never quite understood it being pooh-poohed.
It mostly got bad reviews for the inclusion of the wind machine and fx in general. Many critics back then weren't wild about film music (then in its infancy), and more than a little of Eine Alpensinfonie could have made it as a film score.
As a composer I must strongly vouch for not just the composition itself but for some of the most brilliant orchestration in art music history, period. I have used the book score umpteen times for help with my orchestrations...at least as much as I've used Mahler's symphonies (and Bernard Herrmann's best scores) for guidance in that area.
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on September 12, 2019, 01:37:05 AM
I still have to track that down. Mehta's LA recording certainly disappointed me and wasn't at all as I often found it described (i.e. hyper-romantic).
I rather like those early/LAPO/Mehta discs. When he could still summon up enthusiasm for repertoire. The Decca engineering is pretty 'glorious technicolour' too - spotlit bass trombones blaring their way through the big "vision" climax - what's not to love. Like his "Domestica" from this set too. The Sony/BPO remakes are superbly played and well engineered but all a bit urbane for me. Can be found in one of those cheap as chips Sony box sets where they are tremendous value
[asin]B01HU7HNT6[/asin]
Quote from: Roasted Swan on September 12, 2019, 10:19:40 AM
I rather like those early/LAPO/Mehta discs. When he could still summon up enthusiasm for repertoire. The Decca engineering is pretty 'glorious technicolour' too - spotlit bass trombones blaring their way through the big "vision" climax - what's not to love. Like his "Domestica" from this set too. The Sony/BPO remakes are superbly played and well engineered but all a bit urbane for me. Can be found in one of those cheap as chips Sony box sets where they are tremendous value
I was looking into that box - it's almost cheaper than a used copy of the Berlin Alpensinfonie.
Listen, if you find the time, to the LA version again... and tell me if I'm wrong (or right). I found it very much NOT glorious or super-sonic-spectacular but rather underplayed. (Certainly coming off Previn/Philadelphia. And certainly until "Summit" - at which it gets better.)
Or need I just listen to it with the volume turned up a LOT more?
Well, I've hardly heard any of Richard Strauss's works, but all those I have heard I've loved. I'd like to expand my Strauss collection beyond the three CDs I have: Reiner conducting Zarathustra & Heldenleben, Karajan conducting Metamorphosen & Tod und Verklärung w/ Gundula Janowitz singing the Four Last Songs, and another Four Last Songs w/ Jessye Norman. My favorite of the three would have to be the Karajan, though the Reiner is damn good too (and GREAT sound for the time).
Are there any Strauss recordings that you, good people of GMG, deem essential listening? I'm thinking of getting into the operas, too, as it seems Strauss' major mark on music was in the world of opera. The ones I'm most interested in are Salome, Elektra, & Rosenkavalier (which I guess are the "big" ones). But I'm curious to hear more of the tone poems, concertos, and anything else.
Thanks in advance for any help!
Quote from: vers la flamme on March 31, 2020, 03:31:28 PM
Well, I've hardly heard any of Richard Strauss's works, but all those I have heard I've loved. I'd like to expand my Strauss collection beyond the three CDs I have: Reiner conducting Zarathustra & Heldenleben, Karajan conducting Metamorphosen & Tod und Verklärung w/ Gundula Janowitz singing the Four Last Songs, and another Four Last Songs w/ Jessye Norman. My favorite of the three would have to be the Karajan, though the Reiner is damn good too (and GREAT sound for the time).
Are there any Strauss recordings that you, good people of GMG, deem essential listening? I'm thinking of getting into the operas, too, as it seems Strauss' major mark on music was in the world of opera. The ones I'm most interested in are Salome, Elektra, & Rosenkavalier (which I guess are the "big" ones). But I'm curious to hear more of the tone poems, concertos, and anything else.
Thanks in advance for any help!
Elektra - Solti/Decca
Also Sprach Zarathustra - Mehta/LAPO
Ein Heldenleben - Ludwig/LSO
Don Quixote - Tortelier/Kempe/Dresden; Fournier/Karajan
Ein Alpensinfonie - Shipway
Orchestral Music - Kempe/Warner box
Don Quixote is definitely one to get acquainted with asap. It's the most refined of Strauss' big orchestral machines.
On a completely different tangent:
Does anyone know if either Strauss or Hofmannsthal had any acquaintance with either Wagner's Die Feen or the two plays by Carlo Gozzi which served as the source for Wagner's libretto?
Die Feen's story has elements that are both like and unlike the story of Die Frau ohne Schatten. A fairy princess marries a human against her father's wishes. The father, the Fairy King, issues a decree that threatens one of the newlyweds with become a stone statue if a condition is not met, and the condition involves the princess becoming human. Two fairies plot to ensure the princess does not become human. The condition is not met, and the surviving spouse must rescue the other from being a statue forever.
The differences are important; it is the princess who is turned to stone, the two fairies are much more benign than the Nurse in DFoS, the condition does not involve being fertile (in fact, the couple have children), the situation is resolved by the human spouse becoming a fairy. And most important, there is no analogue in Wagner's story to Barak the Dyer and his wife.
Still, there are enough similarities to make me wonder...
BTW, the Fairy King's original demand also appears in Lohengrin; the human spouse is forbidden to ask his wife's name.
Quote from: JBS on March 31, 2020, 05:23:28 PM
On a completely different tangent:
Does anyone know if either Strauss or Hofmannsthal had any acquaintance with either Wagner's Die Feen or the two plays by Carlo Gozzi which served as the source for Wagner's libretto?
Die Feen's story has elements that are both like and unlike the story of Die Frau ohne Schatten. A fairy princess marries a human against her father's wishes. The father, the Fairy King, issues a decree that threatens one of the newlyweds with become a stone statue if a condition is not met, and the condition involves the princess becoming human. Two fairies plot to ensure the princess does not become human. The condition is not met, and the surviving spouse must rescue the other from being a statue forever.
The differences are important; it is the princess who is turned to stone, the two fairies are much more benign than the Nurse in DFoS, the condition does not involve being fertile (in fact, the couple have children), the situation is resolved by the human spouse becoming a fairy. And most important, there is no analogue in Wagner's story to Barak the Dyer and his wife.
Still, there are enough similarities to make me wonder...
BTW, the Fairy King's original demand also appears in Lohengrin; the human spouse is forbidden to ask his wife's name.
You seem to have hit a point here. I found a connection hinted at in this article (last paragraph esp.):
http://www.chelseaoperagroup.org.uk/Operas/Mar%202013.htm (http://www.chelseaoperagroup.org.uk/Operas/Mar%202013.htm)
Quote from: André on March 31, 2020, 05:27:27 PM
You seem to have hit a point here. I found a connection hinted at in this article (last paragraph esp.):
http://www.chelseaoperagroup.org.uk/Operas/Mar%202013.htm (http://www.chelseaoperagroup.org.uk/Operas/Mar%202013.htm)
Thanks!
The tracklist/credits for the recording of Die Feen I have (Frankfurt Oper on Oehms) list two Gozzi plays, the other being Il Corvo.
Quote from: vers la flamme on March 31, 2020, 03:31:28 PM
Well, I've hardly heard any of Richard Strauss's works, but all those I have heard I've loved. I'd like to expand my Strauss collection beyond the three CDs I have: Reiner conducting Zarathustra & Heldenleben, Karajan conducting Metamorphosen & Tod und Verklärung w/ Gundula Janowitz singing the Four Last Songs, and another Four Last Songs w/ Jessye Norman. My favorite of the three would have to be the Karajan, though the Reiner is damn good too (and GREAT sound for the time).
Are there any Strauss recordings that you, good people of GMG, deem essential listening? I'm thinking of getting into the operas, too, as it seems Strauss' major mark on music was in the world of opera. The ones I'm most interested in are Salome, Elektra, & Rosenkavalier (which I guess are the "big" ones). But I'm curious to hear more of the tone poems, concertos, and anything else.
Thanks in advance for any help!
The truth is so many of the classic Strauss recordings are now available in box sets where in effect you get all the major works for the equivalent price you paid for a single LP back in the day. So
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71gzyAn8mZL._AC_UL320_ML3_.jpg)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81ivKCyAQ7L._AC_UY218_ML3_.jpg)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91jPXZPQb4L._AC_UY218_ML3_.jpg)
represent tremendous value without any artistic compromise (but sometimes with not much in terms of liner notes). Of the older recordings I think anything with Szell in Cleveland on CBS/Sony is pretty stunning - but away from the big Szell sets they are still early CD masters - albeit cheap. There are many very fine modern recordings too - orchestras can knock out technically superb Strauss seemingly at will. One thing worth considering is a change in Straussian-style. People like Kempe/Bohm are old-school with a more fluent less grandiose approach. This is more in line with Strauss' own recordings. Modern interpretation can lean towards a opulent conception.
Opera-wise again many of the great recordings can now be bought for the equivalent of pence. The Solti/VPO Salome and Elektra are extraordinary achievements and must be heard. Rosenkavalier is hard to get beyond Karajan/Philharmonia which is truly one of the Great Recordings of the (last) Century.
Cool, thanks, everyone. I have been looking at that Kempe/Dresden box and it probably is the way to go. But I'll check out some of the other recordings suggested too. I have heard and really loved the Solti Elektra and should probably get it on CD so I can listen while reading along with the libretto. I've been looking at the Karajan Rosenkavalier too.
Quote from: vers la flamme on April 01, 2020, 03:11:44 AM
Cool, thanks, everyone. I have been looking at that Kempe/Dresden box and it probably is the way to go. But I'll check out some of the other recordings suggested too. I have heard and really loved the Solti Elektra and should probably get it on CD so I can listen while reading along with the libretto. I've been looking at the Karajan Rosenkavalier too.
You might also consider Karajan's
Salome with the VPO (EMI/Warner) - stunning performance with ravishing sound, one of the best things Karajan ever did.
Quote from: Biffo on April 01, 2020, 03:23:47 AM
You might also consider Karajan's Salome with the VPO (EMI/Warner) - stunning performance with ravishing sound, one of the best things Karajan ever did.
+1
Hmm... Better than the (earlier?) Solti/Vienna Salome? That's the one I was looking at.
Quote from: vers la flamme on April 01, 2020, 04:14:21 AM
Hmm... Better than the (earlier?) Solti/Vienna Salome? That's the one I was looking at.
not better - different!
Quote from: vers la flamme on April 01, 2020, 04:14:21 AM
Hmm... Better than the (earlier?) Solti/Vienna Salome? That's the one I was looking at.
I have both; I heard Solti first and it blew me away but prefer Karajan. Both are excellent.
One caveat with the Solti is that it has one of the ugliest covers ever devised... ::)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71RXJjWnoxL._SX522_.jpg)
How Herod would have wanted Mme. Nilsson to dance for him defies the imagination...
Quote from: ritter on April 01, 2020, 06:00:27 AM
How Herod would have wanted Mme. Nilsson to dance for him defies the imagination...
You never know with these perverts. ;D
Quote from: ritter on April 01, 2020, 06:00:27 AM
One caveat with the Solti is that it has one of the ugliest covers ever devised... ::)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71RXJjWnoxL._SX522_.jpg)
How Herod would have wanted Mme. Nilsson to dance for him defies the imagination...
That is one advantage with the CD issue - the cover is quite small.
Quote from: vers la flamme on April 01, 2020, 03:11:44 AM
Cool, thanks, everyone. I have been looking at that Kempe/Dresden box and it probably is the way to go. But I'll check out some of the other recordings suggested too. I have heard and really loved the Solti Elektra and should probably get it on CD so I can listen while reading along with the libretto. I've been looking at the Karajan Rosenkavalier too.
Another "modern" alternative set
[asin]B000BITTYE[/asin]
Looking at Amazon MP, the used route is the one to go for price reasons.
Quote from: Roasted Swan on March 31, 2020, 11:50:31 PM
The truth is so many of the classic Strauss recordings are now available in box sets where in effect you get all the major works for the equivalent price you paid for a single LP back in the day. So
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71gzyAn8mZL._AC_UL320_ML3_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81ivKCyAQ7L._AC_UY218_ML3_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91jPXZPQb4L._AC_UY218_ML3_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81O7uB0bL9L._SL1500_.jpg)
represent tremendous value without any artistic compromise (but sometimes with not much in terms of liner notes). Of the older recordings I think anything with Szell in Cleveland on CBS/Sony is pretty stunning................
Opera-wise again many of the great recordings can now be bought for the equivalent of pence..................
Hi All! Just starting in on my
R. Strauss collection, about a dozen discs, split evenly between the first 5 shown below and the others being recordings of chamber, horn, and wind pieces. As quoted above (a recent post in this thread), a number of 'boxes' have appeared - I added another one w/ Mehta - one of these collections could easily replace a number of the ones below, so will greatly appreciate any comments?
Also, wondering if there are other 'instrumental works' that might pique my interest (sorry, but not interested in lieder, whole operas, or choral works - I know many of these are masterpieces, but would not listen to them vs. what I already own) - looking over his list of compositions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Richard_Strauss), Franz Trenner created a new chronological catalogue in 1985, revised by his son in 1999; this catalogue lists 298 works and its numbers are shown in the column "TrV" below - WOW! I see a lot of piano music and other chamber/orchestral works - any recommendations in these genres? Thanks! Dave :)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81SA-zCBM1L._SL1400_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41%2BOxI8%2B-KL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61IxEV7FFLL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51vcVV33dXL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61OZM%2B5fuAL.jpg)
Just to be complete and avoid duplicate recommendations, below are the other half dozen R. Strauss recordings owned. - Dave :)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61WFTVEF9XL.gif) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/810BYjwftHL._SL1419_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61iNhgxabnL.jpg)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41B810260WL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71J3CIiXOWL._SL1200_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71jG8Wi3aHL._AC_SL1200_.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on May 25, 2020, 08:33:28 AM
Just to be complete and avoid duplicate recommendations, below are the other half dozen R. Strauss recordings owned. - Dave :)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61WFTVEF9XL.gif) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/810BYjwftHL._SL1419_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61iNhgxabnL.jpg)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41B810260WL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71J3CIiXOWL._SL1200_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71jG8Wi3aHL._AC_SL1200_.jpg)
So much good music and great recordings there. I know you say vocal music is off limits but you must have a 4 Last Songs somewhere! The Netherlands Wind Ensemble version of the wind serenades etc were always well regarded but I find the too smoothed over and neat. Immaculately played but too sanitised for me - I'd go for another version of those. None of the chamber music is amazing - perfectly nice but not revolutionary in the way much of his other music was...... You've got most of the main bases covered here - is there a good oboe concerto in that lot?
It is probably Holliger on the Philips twofer?
My other favorite concertante piece is the "Burleske" for Piano, Timpani and orchestra, a rather early piece with echoes of Brahms d minor concerto. My favorite chamber work I am not seeing on your discs is the violin sonata (many recordings with famous fiddlers). If you like neoclassical/neobaroque there is also Le bourgeois gentilhomme suite.
Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 25, 2020, 11:02:15 AM
So much good music and great recordings there. I know you say vocal music is off limits but you must have a 4 Last Songs somewhere! The Netherlands Wind Ensemble version of the wind serenades etc were always well regarded but I find the too smoothed over and neat. Immaculately played but too sanitised for me - I'd go for another version of those. None of the chamber music is amazing - perfectly nice but not revolutionary in the way much of his other music was...... You've got most of the main bases covered here - is there a good oboe concerto in that lot?
Quote from: Jo498 on May 25, 2020, 11:31:59 AM
It is probably Holliger on the Philips twofer?
My other favorite concertante piece is the "Burleske" for Piano, Timpani and orchestra, a rather early piece with echoes of Brahms d minor concerto. My favorite chamber work I am not seeing on your discs is the violin sonata (many recordings with famous fiddlers). If you like neoclassical/neobaroque there is also Le bourgeois gentilhomme suite.
Thanks
Guys for the comments - correct on the
Oboe Concerto, i.e. Holliger in the double-Philips wind music set. I spent a half hour or so on Amazon today looking at those 'boxes' shown before and already own much of that music, and there just isn't much of the early or chamber compositions available. I know that the last 4 songs are famous and I had several versions years back but culled the discs out due to my neglect; I do have a LOT of medieval/renaissance secular & religious vocal music, but when the 19th century comes around and the words are in German, my interest fades, sorry Schubert, Schumann, Wolf, et al - just me. Dave :)
Hi, Dave. You already have some really good Strauss records there, Alpine Symphony with Blomstedt/SF is flawless; and the Rosenkavalier/Salome/Capriccio disc with Jarvi/Scottish, and the Nash Ensemble's Meta/Piano Quartet/Capriccio both offer a great variety of his compositions.
If you find yourself a fan of the Wind Sonatinas, and the Oboe Concerto, you should definitely give his Duet concertino for clarinet and bassoon a listen. It's pure magic. Here's my recommendation that I truly love...
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71NUjoAohAL._SX255_.jpg)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on May 26, 2020, 05:51:58 AM
Hi, Dave. You already have some really good Strauss records there, Alpine Symphony with Blomstedt/SF is flawless; and the Rosenkavalier/Salome/Capriccio disc with Jarvi/Scottish, and the Nash Ensemble's Meta/Piano Quartet/Capriccio both offer a great variety of his compositions.
If you find yourself a fan of the Wind Sonatinas, and the Oboe Concerto, you should definitely give his Duet concertino for clarinet and bassoon a listen. It's pure magic. Here's my recommendation that I truly love...
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71NUjoAohAL._SX255_.jpg)
Thanks
Greg - only work that I already own is the
Cappriccio Suite which starts w/ the Sextet - others not in my collection - read several excellent reviews - in a short search, have found only MP3 DLs (Amazon USA and PrestoMusic) but have not checked other sites. Dave :)
ADDENDUM: Pentatone website states the physical CD is no longer available and not listed on BRO; the cheapest MP3 DL is on Presto for $7 - however, I'm currently streaming on Spotify to my Apple TV and den speakers - 8)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on May 26, 2020, 08:12:19 AM
Thanks Greg - only work that I already own is the Cappriccio Suite which starts w/ the Sextet - others not in my collection - read several excellent reviews - in a short search, have found only MP3 DLs (Amazon USA and PrestoMusic) but have not checked other sites. Dave :)
ADDENDUM: Pentatone website states the physical CD is no longer available and not listed on BRO; the cheapest MP3 DL is on Presto for $7 - however, I'm currently streaming on Spotify to my Apple TV and den speakers - 8)
If you like Strauss in heroic mode then you must check out the Festmusik der Stadt Wien
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Not necessarily the greatest performances technically but they have real character
Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 26, 2020, 12:46:19 PM
If you like Strauss in heroic mode then you must check out the Festmusik der Stadt Wien
[asin]B000006BZS[/asin]
[asin]B000007NQ5[/asin]
Not necessarily the greatest performances technically but they have real character
An old post I know, but, yes, I'm finding this particular Strauss chamber series rather good. As you mentioned, not the most assured technically, but they do have a unique quality to them or, at least, of the performances I've heard so far. Brilliant Classics boxed this set up a few years ago and I jumped on it because it was just so cheap:
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I was a bit hesitant to buy this set because of Brilliant's quality control issues that has permeated several of their other sets most notably their Rachmaninov set. But, so far, there haven't been any defects.
Quote from: vers la flamme on March 31, 2020, 03:31:28 PM
Well, I've hardly heard any of Richard Strauss's works, but all those I have heard I've loved. I'd like to expand my Strauss collection beyond the three CDs I have: Reiner conducting Zarathustra & Heldenleben, Karajan conducting Metamorphosen & Tod und Verklärung w/ Gundula Janowitz singing the Four Last Songs, and another Four Last Songs w/ Jessye Norman. My favorite of the three would have to be the Karajan, though the Reiner is damn good too (and GREAT sound for the time).
Are there any Strauss recordings that you, good people of GMG, deem essential listening? I'm thinking of getting into the operas, too, as it seems Strauss' major mark on music was in the world of opera. The ones I'm most interested in are Salome, Elektra, & Rosenkavalier (which I guess are the "big" ones). But I'm curious to hear more of the tone poems, concertos, and anything else.
Thanks in advance for any help!
In the tone poems, the more glitzier and glamorous the performances are, the more I tend to like them. You can't go wrong with Karajan in any Strauss. He's my top pick in terms of the tone poems, but I've got to say that Kempe is truly impressive here as well. I think of Kempe's Strauss as 'meat and potatoes' and I mean this as a compliment. These performances are consistent, reliably performed and straight-forward, but they do have a bit of special spice in them that give them a distinctive flavor of their own. You'd do well with Karajan or Kempe. For the operas, this is more of a mixed bag for me (and I can only speak of the operas that I've heard), but Solti is
the man here, although Böhm has some fine Strauss under his belt as well. Solti's
Elektra and
Salome are essential acquisitions, IMHO. He brings out those darker Second Viennese School musical underpinnings to superb effect. It really felt at times I was listening to something as violent as Berg's
Wozzeck. Outside of the operas, tone poems and a few chamber pieces, I don't know much else from him, but I'm now starting to get reacquainted with his oeuvre, but I know it's going to take some time to be able to fully assimilate these ares of his oeuvre that I don't know as well as I should.
What is the best recording of the Violin Sonata? My reference at the moment is Vilde Frang & Michail Lifits. I also appreciate Augustin Dumay & Louis Lortie for the depth of its interpretation, even though Dumay's playing is not really up to scratch technically, and Thomas Irnberger & Michael Korstick for an alternative view (marred by bad piano sound). I assume there are probably better recordings out there, though.
Quote from: amw on January 07, 2021, 02:50:18 AMI assume there are probably better recordings out there, though.
Better than Frang/Lifits? I have doubts. Chung/Zimerman is also nice. Of course, I've never made it a point to hunt down a lot of recordings of this piece, but now that I see there is a Rosand/Lipkin recording and a Suwanai/Pace (!) set, I may be tempted to try some more.
I sampled Chung & Zimerman, Suwanai & Pace, and Ehnes & Armstrong. Chung is good, but a bit too harsh. Suwanai is very strong, likely better than Frang, but I still prefer Frang for interpretive reasons. Ehnes is even better, capturing the same breathless fin-de-siecle nostalgia as Frang, and may well become a new reference recording, even though I don't like his violin playing as much as Frang's or Suwanai's. There are also recordings by Vadim Repin, Arabella Steinbacher, Gidon Kremer & David Grimal that I will endeavour to listen to at some point, and I'll probably also have to try out some of the violinists & pianists new to me, to see how well they can cope with what is after all a very technically difficult sonata (more so for the piano than the violin, actually).
I guess I'm becoming de facto Op. 18 expert here.
Looks like I need to hear Suwanai/Pace.
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This has ended up being a surprisingly strong contender as well (surprising for me at least, since I have never heard of the violinist). The same interpreters have also recorded the Prokofievs, which I should listen to someday. Some insecure high playing is the only major limitation, but it's otherwise a good interpretive and qualitative match for Dumay. Repin & Steinbacher were not for me. Kremer & Grimal pretty good, but not sure how competitive they are with Ehnes, Suwanai or Frang.
Tobias Feldmann & Boris Kusnezow, Itzhak Perlman & Emanuel Ax, and Lisa Schatzman & Benjamin Engeli also seem pretty good, but with various limitations in terms of phrasing, rhythmic snap, or violin sound. In retrospect, it's not really a surprise that virtually every major violinist has recorded the piece, since despite its technical difficulties it's a lot more fun and engaging than its usual discmate (the Franck) with about two great tunes per movement.
For the Violin Sonata, this is my currently my reference:
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An interesting mini-bio on Strauss' life:
Richard Georg Strauss was born in Munich on June 11, 1864. He was the first child of the Musician Franz Joseph Strauss and his wife Josepha (who is descended from the Brewery Dynasty Pschorr). As early as the age of six, Strauss was already composing his first pieces. By his 18th Birthday, he had composed 140 works. His "Opus 1" "Festive March for Large Orchestra" was released in 1881.
Richard Strauss' father Franz Joseph Strauss (1822-1905), managed to work his way out of poverty through his musical talent. A member of the Munich Court Opera from 1847, he was considered one of the best French horn players of his time. In 1863 he married Josepha Pschorr (1838-1910) who was a member of the affluent Pschorr brewery family.
The couple moved to the Pschorr residence in Munich where their son Richard Georg Strauss was born on June 11, 1864. In 1867, their daughter Berta Johanna was born.
The mother was musical with a sensitive nature while the father had the dominant and self-confident personality of a musician. He would raise his son with ethics of hard work as well as frugality, precise musical expertise and a love of the classics. "His musical creed was the trinity of Mozart (above all) Haydn, and Beethoven." However, Franz Joseph Strauss detested the works of Richard Wagner. Nonetheless he continued to play and completed the complicated horn notes in the premieres of "Tristan", "Meistersinger" and "Siegfried" among others.
In the Strauss family home, music was a way of life for the entire family. At the age four, Richard Strauss started piano lessons. By the age of six, he was already composing his first works "Schneider-polka" and "Weihnachtslied". His mother wrote the lyrics for these pieces, as Richard only knew how to write musical notes.
"My mother told me that from a very young age, I used to laugh and smile when hearing the sound of a French horn. When I heard the sound of a violin, I cried intensely."
Composition Lessons during the High School Years
He entered the Cathedral School at the age of six and his middle school years were completed at the Ludwigs-Gymnasium. A teacher once recalled about the twelve year old: "He was a student of wonderful complexity, respectable attitude and good behaviour; active, keen, considerate, sometimes too quick and volatile."
By the age of 18, he had composed some 140 Pieces, of which about 60 were Lieder and 40 were piano works. Thus originated a Choir "Electra" (1880), based on the tragedy of Sophocles, and a Violin Concerto (Op. 8) in 1882, that was jotted down in a school notebook.
At their first joint visit in Vienna in 1883, the violin teacher Benno Walter (and distant uncle twice removed) performed the Concerto with Strauss, with Walter on the violin and Strauss at the piano.
During his high school years, Richard also received his first and only lesson in composition and played in the "Wilde Gung'l" orchestra association which was headed by his father. This orchestra premiered several of his compositions.
In 1881, his "official career" began. His "Festive March for Large Orchestra" was released, and at the same time, Strauss discovered a new world: that of Richard Wagner.
The Adolescent Discovers Wagner
"... I still remember very well how at around 17 years of age, I almost feverishly swallowed the score of "Tristan" and fell into a frenzy of enthusiasm".
While he was under the influence of his father, the young Richard Strauss loathed Wagner's music ("even rocks would have turned into scrambled eggs, after hearing these hideous discords").
However, the young Strauss recognized and studied the genius within Wagner and attended the Bayreuth Festival for the first time in 1882.
He would have his debut there as a conductor in 1894; his Opera "Guntram" which premiered in the same year was very much under the influence of the Bayreuth Maestro. Nevertheless, he would soon free himself from the influence of Wagner.
Career as Court Music Director
Upon recommendation of his Mentor at the time, the renowned Wagner Conductor Hans von Bülow, Richard Strauss became the Music director in Meiningen at the young age of 21.
One year later in 1886, the musician moved on to become the third Musical Director (Kapellmeister) at the Munich Court Opera (Münchner Hofoper).
Inspired by literature and his travels to Italy, as well as by the composer Franz Liszt, Strauss dedicated himself at this time to the study of the symphonic composition and reached the peak in his art of orchestration.
In 1883, which marked the year of Wagner's death, Hans von Bülow, one of the most significant Wagner conductors of the time, took Strauss under his wing. Under his direction, Strauss wrote not only the "Bläsersuite" op. 4, but also directed it in his public debut as conductor in Munich in 1884.
In the following year, and at the recommendation of Bülow, Strauss became the music director in Meiningen. This is where he intensified his understanding of Wagner (and also of Liszt and Bruckner). Strauss' friendship with the composer and violinist Alexander Ritter (who was the husband of Wagner's niece Franziska), led to "the key reason for my future development".
21 year old Richard Strauss' works were already well known at the time that he accepted his appointment as court music director in Meiningen in October 1885.
While Bülow had already shaped the Meiningen Orchestra into a superior sound body, Strauss had other responsibilities. It was up to him to conduct rehearsals and concerts for the orchestra, to manage the choir association, to give music lessons to Princess Marie von Sachsen-Meiningen, and also to perform as a pianist. (Bülow to Strauss "If you were not better than you are, then you could also just be a pianist").
Strauss possessed not only invaluable practical knowledge as a musician: he also excelled at the card game Skat.
Role Model Franz Liszt: First Tone Poems
Strauss left Meiningen in April 1886 to return to his hometown of Munich. It is here that he deepened his repertoire and becomes the third chapel master at the court opera. However, he mentioned his dislike of Munich stating that "it is not the place in which an enjoyable life of music can prosper".
Between the years of 1885 and 1889, Strauss composed several Lieder and Choral Works as well as "Burlesque" for Piano (premiered by Eugene D'Albert in 1880). After his travels to Italy, where he found inspiration, Strauss created the first symphonic poems such as the symphonic fantasy "Out of Italy", as well as "Macbeth" and "Don Juan".
Thanks to his mentor Alexander Ritter, Strauss was able to transform the basic principle of Franz Liszt's works in his own way "in which the poetic idea also becomes the main musical element". However, music should not in any way become subordinate to the lyrics. Because "if music does not develop intuitively from within itself, it simply becomes "literary music" ..."
The Peak of the Art of Instrumentation
In the year of Liszt's death in 1886, Strauss composed "Out of Italy". This "symphonic fantasy" featured a four movement structure. The tone painting effects in the composition as well as the titles of the movements (e.g. "Neapolitan Folk Life") became known as Strauss' first symphonic poetry.
Shortly before his first operatic success, in 1903, Strauss completed eight more one movement compositions of tone poems: "Macbeth" (1886) inspired by the Shakespearian drama, "Don Juan" (1888) after Nicolaus Lenau, "Death and Transfiguration" (1889) Strauss' own programmatic sketch, "Till Eulenspiegel's Merry Pranks" (1895), "Thus spoke Zarathustra" (1896) after Friedrich Nietzsche, "Don Quixote" (1897) after Cervantes, "A Hero's Life" (1898) and "Sinfonia Domestica" (1903) – the latter two refer strongly to autobiographical references. In 1915, after a longer break, Strauss composed the last work in this genre: "An Alpine Symphony". With this piece, Strauss reached the peak in his art of instrumentation.
Growing Fame and Marriage to Pauline
Strauss moves to Weimar in 1889. He was appointed 2nd Kappellmeister until 1894 and met a great challenge as a conductor. With the premieres of "Don Juan", "Death and Transfiguration" and "Macbeth", Strauss' fame as a composer grew. His first opera "Guntram" raised only moderate success, but he nonetheless managed to compose several more songs (Lieder) during this time – last but not least for his bride.
In 1894, there was a turning point in his private life: Strauss married Soprano Pauline de Ahna.
From October 1889 until 1894, Strauss was appointed as 2nd Kapellmeister in the Goethe city of Weimar. It is here that he was faced with great responsibilities as a conductor. (He managed to direct "Tannhäuser", "Lohengrin" and "Tristan" despite recurring weaknesses in the orchestra). Shortly after taking office he succeeded in premiering "Don Juan". His fame as a composer grew with the premiere of "Death and Transfiguration" (Eduard Hanslick: "the nature of his talent actually pointed in the direction of musical drama") and "Macbeth". However Strauss' reputation as a composer grew with his first musical assistance in Bayreuth and his debut with the Berlin Philharmonic in 1890.
Strauss recovered from pneumonia at the end of 1892 during his extended travels to Greece and Egypt. It was also during these travels that he created the concept behind his first Opera. "My time in Weimar was actually not extremely productive from a composition point of view, with the exception of "Guntram" and a few good Lieder ("Cäcilie", "Heiliche Aufforderung" (The Lovers' Pledge). What kept me completely occupied (other than my wife) was the theatre and card games."
The composition of the First Opera and Marriage to Pauline
The two key events of his Weimar period, are linked quite closely together: Strauss' first opera, and his marriage to Pauline de Ahna. In 1887, Richard Strauss met the daughter of a Bavarian General and accepted her as his pupil. She was talented and pleasant, yet at times quite moody. In 1889 she followed her Maestro to Weimar where she succeeded in having a remarkable career as a soprano. She performed roles from Mozart and Wagner, as well as doing a guest performance as Isolde in Bayreuth. She went on to embody the character of Hänsel in the Weimar premiere from Engelbert Humperdinck's Fairy Tale Opera "Hänsel und Gretel". She also created the main female character of Freihild in Strauss' first opera "Guntram".
The rehearsals unfortunately did little good to the opera. The orchestra and the tenors felt overwhelmed by the monumental score. Pauline who always performed her part perfectly, also cracked under the tense atmosphere and hurled herself into her piano score while the composer conducted. Despite these challenges, the work led to a love affair which was already flourishing and shortly before the premiere of "Guntram" in Weimar (May 12, 1894) the engagement was announced. On September 10, 1894 the couple married. Although "Guntram" only had modest short term success, the marriage lasted a lifetime.
Acclaimed Song Composer and Piano Accompanist
In 1894, Richard Strauss dedicated the "Four Songs" op.27 (Lovers' Pledge", "Tomorrow!" among others) to his bride. This further established his fame as a song composer. After first childlike attempts, Strauss managed to summarize the op.10 "8 Lieder" (1885); ("Dedication" is included among these). Strauss would distinguish himself through this genre well into his old age.
With the exception of his big opera successes, the born vocal composer developed Lieder on a regular basis as a way to have some artistic diversification from his symphonic poems and other instrumental pieces. These Lieder became op. 29 (among others "Dream in the Twilight"), op 32. (Among others "I carry my Love"= or op. 37 (among others "Abundant Happiness").
The song composer took a break between "Salome" (1905) and "The Woman without a Shadow" (1917). Strauss was commissioned to write the "Krämerspiegel" (The Shopkeepers mirror) (op.66) by using texts provided by Alfred Kerr. This set of vocal compositions were written in 1918 in a piqued response to the publishing house that had commissioned the works. The last climax of this genre were the "Four Last Songs" (1947). The last completed work by Strauss "Malven" ("Mallows") was classified until after the death of the dedicatee Maria Jeritza. It was only premiered in 1985.
Throughout his life, Strauss was also an acclaimed piano accompanist for his songs; with singers such as Pauline Strauss-de-Ahna, Franz Steiner, Elisabeth Schumann and Hans Hotter.
His friend Hans von Bülow died in February 1894. Strauss took over the concerts of the Berlin Philharmonic which would lead to great results in the years to come.
World Success with Symphonic Poems
Strauss l left for Munich in 1894 to assume the role of first Chapel Master. In 1897 his son Franz was born. Up until 1898, his success lay primarily in tone poems (such as "Thus spoke Zarathurstra"). It was through these that Strauss succeeded in becoming internationally renowned. Despite this success, he still did not get the position as the Munich General Music Director. He reacted to this in his own way – by going to Berlin and composing a Symphony based upon his own life: the "Sinfonica Domestica".
In Weimar, Strauss "did not win over the sympathy of people due to his youthful recklessness and exaggerated behaviour". In the same year, he bade farewell to the city and moved to Munich to assume the role of 1st Kapellmeister. His opera "Guntram" was cancelled after one single performance. Strauss suffered in his daily responsibilities due to the narrow minded, bureaucratic and unreliable nature of his director Ernst von Possart.
Nonetheless, the success of the Munich years (until 1898) lay in his compositions– which in fact were responsible for his international fame. These included "Till Eulenspiegel", "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" and "Don Quixote". Strauss' fame as a conductor and composer increased largely also due to the multiple tours that he undertook. Luck was also on his side in his private life. On the 12th of April 1897, his son Franz was born.
Out of Disappointment to Berlin
When the Munich General Music Director Hermann Levi retired in 1896, Possart did not select Strauss as his successor. Instead he tried to convince Felix von Weingartner to assume the role. With great disappointment, Strauss turned away yet again from his hometown and the capital. "...Since Weingartner retreated from Berlin, I realised the opportunity (...) and never had a reason to regret this relationship with Berlin".
"I fail to see why I cannot make a symphony about myself. I find myself just as interesting as Napoleon or Alexander." These types of expressions were characteristic of the confidence of this genius paired with a dry and direct Bavarian humour. A not so easily digestible blend of personalities – but yet so unique to Strauss.
1904 Tour of the United States with Pauline
The piece that is being mentioned here is the "Sinfonica Domestica" - dedicated to "my dear wife and our son"- which in 1904 took Strauss on an extended tour to New York City for the premiere. Pauline shone in the spotlight again with her interpretation of the songs by Richard Strauss. She would soon pull back from the arts and dedicate herself primarily to the household and to raising her son Franz.
Pauline often gave rise to criticism or even ridicule through her feisty, moody, cleanliness obsessive and compulsive personality. Strauss on the other hand saw her as his beloved indispensable life partner who made his creations possible.
Berlin Period, The days of "Salome" and "Elektra"
With the premiere of "Salome" in Dresden in 1905, Strauss defined the term modern opera music for his supporters as well as his critics.
The polar reactions of enthusiasm mixed with acute rejection continued with the opera "Elektra" – which was Strauss' first work with "his" poet Hugo von Hoffmansthal. However the opera proved to be a success. With the proceeds from "Elektra", Strauss was able to construct his villa in Garmisch which later became the family residence.
Until the end of his days, Strauss' father remained a rational and often sceptical advisor to him. Whether "domestica" was also as monumental as the choir ballade that he conducted in 1903 (text written by Uhland), Strauss' father wanted to know: "do you orchestrate this also as loudly as "Taillefer? There should be silence in the home (domus) !"
Franz Strauss died in May 1905 never having experienced the opera revolution that his son had triggered in that same year.
Fascinated by Oscar Wilde's Text "Salome"
"...now, after the dance and especially all the finale scenes are all drowned in music, it is not in any way daring to explain that this piece 'screamed of music'. Yes indeed. But it must be seen! "
Strauss immediately recognised how well suited Oscar Wilde's "Salome" was for opera. He composed the German translation, without even bothering to use a librettist.
On December 9th, 1905, Salome was premiered on the stage in Dresden (Strauss' favourite location for premieres). It immediately became the epitome of modern opera music – both for the supporters as well as for the critics, to which the censors and the clergy belonged.
The ground-breaking work came to Vienna only in 1918 where it became part of the Court Opera program.
The Start of Work with Hugo von Hofmannsthal
Strauss found his "poet" in 1906: the Viennese Hugo von Hofmannsthal. After this, Strauss' "Elektra" was adapted for musical theatre. His "wish to oppose the demonic ecstatic Hellenism of the sixth century from Winkelmann's Roman imitations and Goethe's humanity" resulted in a more radical opera than the last one. "Elektra" premieres in Dresden on January 25, 1909, more rapturous than blazing enthusiasm and rejection combined.
The composer would never again venture so far over the boundaries of tonality anymore.
And when he would go back to the classic opera material of the past, then he would do so in the spirit of Winkelmann and Goethe.
Salome: a Profitable "Loss"
Kaiser Wilhelm II, who was known for his lack of musical talent, stated that Strauss had injured his reputation with his opera ,,Salome". A dry reply to this might be that this "injury" helped finance Strauss' villa in Garmisch.
Although it was originally planned as a summer residence, the villa which was built by the architect Emanuel von Seidl in 1908, soon became the principle residence of the Strauss family.
"Der Rosenkavalier" (The Night of the Rose) – a Great Popular Success
Strauss was now a settled "Family man" as one likes to call it nowadays. This could be seen in his works: with "Rosenkavalier" in 1911, Strauss competed with the legacy of his namesake (Johann) Strauss. He shortened "Ariadne" in 1912 to a more publicly accepted version. Strauss and Hofmannsthal soon gained the reputation of a "wonder team". They were then joined by director Max Reinhardt who was made responsible for creating effective staging and production.
In 1910, Strauss' mother Johanna died. She was a highly sensitive woman who spent the last years of her life under constant medical care.
Card Games Night after Night as an Equilibrium to Music
Although Richard Strauss had composed most of "Salome" at the home of his in-laws in Marquartstein, he would now become the master of his own home – which strictly speaking was to be controlled by the "lady of the house", his wife, Pauline.
Her husband devoted himself to his composition and his Berlin obligations (in 1908 Strauss took over the Berlin Philharmonic Concerts from Weingartner). His free time was devoted to the game of skat.
This "quirk" that the genius had, of spending nights at the card table, was often ridiculed. However Strauss would explain this as a necessary recreation: he could hear music everywhere. Only the cards remained silent...
Perhaps the solid social and family relationships contributed to the "experimental" genius and the revolutionist of "Salome" and "Elektra" suddenly making a turnaround. His friend Hofmannsthal, started working on "our Figaro"...
Great Success with the "Rosenkavalier"
In 1899, Johann Strauss, the "waltz king" passed away. With the "Rosenkavalier", the unrelated Bavarian Richard Strauss carried on his legacy.
Accused by some critics of being an "unholy alliance", the operetta - which was staged in Vienna under the rule of Maria Theresia – received immense popular success.
On January 26, 2011 at the premiere in Dresden, the author duo and "wonder-team" Strauss-Hofmannsthal was complemented by set designer Alfred Roller and Director Max Reinhardt (who saved the production, without once appearing in the program credits).
Extra Long "Ariadne" gets rebuffed by the Public
The next opera was dedicated to him: "To play the part of Ariadne on Naxos after "The Bourgeois Gentleman" by Moliere, is a charming attempt to reduce acting and opera to a common denominator."
The extra-long premiere that was staged on October 25, 1912 in Stuttgart under Reinhardt's direction, did not hold up, as it was impossible to "muster up a cultural understanding of the pretty hermaphrodite"
The revised version of "Ariadne" with a composed prelude was presented in Vienna on October 4, 1916 in front of an enthusiastic audience. The eponymous heroine was Maria Jeritza (as in 1912), who was also one of the composer's favourite interpreters.
The 1914 Ballet "Joseph's Legend" was the last of the Strauss premieres during peaceful times. The rising world conflagration would also not protect Richard Strauss...
Everything is lost in the First World War
When Strauss' considerable fortune was confiscated during World War I (as "enemy assets"), it was then that the real value of his music emerged: he finished "Woman without a Shadow" in 1916 and in the last year of the war he began to compose Lieder again with his "Krämerspiegel" ("The Shopkeeper's Mirror").
When he was appointed Vienna State Opera Music Director in 1919, Strauss fought against its image as an "opera museum" and brought new productions to the opera house.
In June 1914, on his 50th Birthday, Richard Strauss received an honorary doctorate from the University of Oxford, as well as an honorary citizenship of the city of Munich.
At the end of the War, Strauss would resign as general music director of the Berlin Opera House – a position he was appointed to for a short period of time.
During the last year of the war, Strauss focused his attention back to the composition of his songs "Lieder": He composed "Krämerspiegel" ("Shopkeeper's Mirror"), with lyrics by Alfred Kerr, despite sharp tongued differences with the music publishers.
Fairy Tale Opera "The Woman without a Shadow" – the "problem child"
At the end of 1910, even before the premiere of "Rosenkavalier", Hofmannsthal wanted to develop the idea of a fairy tale opera. Strauss finished the composition of "The Woman without a Shadow" in 1916, but the premiere only took place three years later. "The problem child was completed during the time of heartache and worries brought about by the war. These gave the score (...) its certain nervous irritable nature..."
The heartache in Strauss' case was justifiable: he had deposited his entire fortune in the Bank of England – which unfortunately ended up confiscated these funds as they were so called "enemy assets". "The Woman without a Shadow" – which Strauss had referred to as "the last romantic opera"- proved to be a sustainable source of income.
The premiere of the opera becomes the prelude to the five years that Strauss spent as the artistic director of the Vienna State Opera.
Artistic Director of the Vienna Opera House from 1919
There is a saying: "fake people are everywhere, but the Viennese are so pleasantly fake". Strauss was able to witness this first-hand from December 1919. Although Strauss was quite familiar with the city already – 1895 as concert conductor and from 1910 often as opera conductor, it would now be the first time that he had real responsibility alongside director Franz Schalk. Although he was an avid supporter of Strauss' operas, Schalk's unconditional devotion to Strauss' works began to adopt a critical distance after only a few years.
Although there were several crises between the directors of the opera house (that were made worse by the general economic crisis), the years between 1919 and 1924 still proved to be an artistically affluent time for the Vienna State Opera.
Strauss did not favour his own works, ("Joseph's Legend" 1922 and "The Bourgeois Gentilhomme" 1924 were both premiered in the newly acquired Redoutenhall) but in particular those of Wagner ("Lohengrin" was Strauss' first new production) and Mozart (he had put "Cosi fan tutte" back into the repertoire)
Salzburg Festival and a new feeling of Self Confidence
Strauss and Hofmannsthal wished to confront the sadness of the post war era with the beauty of culture. As a result, they founded the Salzburg Festival in 1920 with Reinhardt and the set designer Alfred Rolle.
While his family was settled in Vienna, Strauss brought music to the world by touring the USA and South America. His son was married in 1924 to the daughter of a Jewish industrialist, a new villa was built, and Strauss became honorary citizen of the city of Vienna. However, in that same year, Strauss resigned from his position as Vienna State Opera Director, and left the city – not without resentment.
In the middle of the war, an "artistic dream" began to take shape and captured the creative partners Strauss and Hofmannsthal: they become the artistic directors of the Salzburg Festival along with Max Reinhardt and Alfred Roller. Their goal with this high profile international event was to regenerate the feeling of self-confidence to a post war run-down Europe and painfully weakened Austria. The festival was founded in 1920 when only Hugo von Hofmannsthal's "Jedermann" was put on the program.
After Mozart, Strauss becomes the most played Composer
It was the Vienna State Opera Director Richard Strauss who directed the first opera premiere of Mozart's Don Juan on August 14, 1922. Between 1922 and 1943, Strauss appeared sixteen times as conductor at the Salzburg Festival (nine operas and seven orchestral concerts).
In the over 80 year history of the Salzburg Festival, the operas of Richard Strass (after Mozart and Verdi) were among those that were the most performed (with "Ariadne of Naxos" taking the lead). 50 years after the Salzburg premiere, "The Love of Danae" was still listed in the program. The public dress rehearsal in 1944 was attended by Strauss just before the wartime theatre ban took effect.
On Tour in the New World
One of the main criticisms of Strauss' term in office in Vienna were his frequent absences and not fulfilling the duties of his position. However, his role was secured contractually and helped him to re-generate the fortune he had previously lost. Moreover it was at the same time good publicity for the Vienna State Opera. In 1923 Strauss travelled to South America for the first time (in 1923 he would return again with the Vienna Philharmonic). In the fall of 1921, Strauss travelled to the USA for the second time.
However Vienna increasingly became the principle residence for his family: His son Franz married Alice in 1924 - the daughter of a Jewish industrialist Emanuel von Grab. Strauss dedicated his "Wedding Prelude" to the young couple. A further residence was built: His son and daughter in law moved to the new Strauss Villa in the Jaquingasse after it was completed in 1925.
Scores vs. Property
The Strauss Villa in Vienna (contrary to recurring rumours that the State had given the Villa as a gift to the family) was one of the most expensive in the history of real estate.
Strauss financed the construction costs himself. He settled the annual leasehold of the property by coming to an agreement with the republic of Austria and the City of Vienna. He would leave the handwritten score of "Rosenkavalier" to the former, and the Ballet ,,Whipped Cream" (that premiered at the Vienna State Opera on his 60th Birthday) to the latter.
The 60th birthday of the Director of the Vienna State Opera house in the first half of May 1924 was celebrated not only by his theatre, (among others, with the premiere of "Whipped Cream" but also by the numerous festivals, concerts and presentation of honorary citizen that Strauss was given by the city of Vienna. Numerous honorary awards and mentions however could not hide the crises that were beginning.
After the Resignation – Success with "Intermezzo"
Strauss resigned a little more than half a year later. Franz Schalk's contract had been renewed and he thus received extended responsibilities. Not without resentment, Strauss entrusted the State Opera to him. At the time of his resignation, Strauss stayed in Dresden where his opera "Intermezzo" was premiered in October 1924. Hermann Bar refused to write the libretto for this autobiographical comedy: "but it is your piece". Strauss composed the libretto himself. After the success of the opera, Strauss decided to write a series containing several parts titled: "My Wife" because "...10 pieces can be written only about my wife".
Lighter Tones during the Interwar Period
During the 20s, the Strauss-Hofmannsthal "Wonderteam" worked on lighter pieces and musical comedies; "The Egyptian Helen" and "Arabella" were produced. When Hofmannsthal died in 1929, Strauss saw a congenial poet in Stefan Zweig. Strauss created "Silent Woman" with his new partner. However, at that time, Strauss could not anticipate how this new relationship with Strauss would put him and his family in danger.
Strauss returned to the Vienna State opera in 1926/1927 for the premiere of "Intermezzo" for which he was the musical director. In exchange for the ownership rights of the property on the Jaquingasse, Strauss agreed to conduct 100 times without pay and also to hand over the handwritten manuscript of his newest opera "The Egyptian Helen".
Two Last Operas with Hofmannsthal
In 1923, two new opera projects emerged: the one is a "graceful, late antique and somewhat colourful comedy" (Hofmannsthal) the other is a "second Rosenkavalier, [...] something refined, funny, and sentimental" (Strauss). "The Egyptian Helen" and "Arabella" would become the last two operas that the artistic duo created.
Strauss had distanced himself from the disturbing modern language that characterised his opera "Elektra". "The music (of Helen) aspires to have more of a noble Greek personality".
The piece premiered on June 6, 1928 in Dresden under Fritz Busch. A few days later it premiered once again at the Vienna State Opera under the musical direction of Strauss himself.
The First Effects of Nazi Rule
The Viennese Comedy "Arabella" followed on July 1, 1933 (the authors had spoken of an Operetta"). Busch had left his position as Dresden General Music Director and had alienated himself from the new regime that had usurped the power of Germany.
Hugo von Hofmannsthal died in 1929 and was therefore never able to witness the completion of "Arabella". Strauss found Stefan Zweig to be a congenial poet, although this did not prove to be the case later. The 70 year old Strauss refused to accept that this partnership with Zweig (through which "Silent Woman" developed) would soon lead him and his family (his grandchildren Richard and Christian were born in 1927 and 1932) into danger...
Nazi-Period: Between Discrimination and Ingratiation
In 1993 Strauss was made President of the German State Music Bureau "Reichsmusikkammer". The following years would come with mixed feelings. Strauss was unable to convince others in his fight against the Aryan policies of Hitler and thus incurred Goebbels' wrath. Nonetheless, he composed the "Olympic Hymns" for the 1936 Olympic Games in Berlin. He and his "Jewish related" family remained under the protection of Gauleiter Baldur von Schirach. Strauss composed his last two operas "The Love of Danae" and "Capriccio" and escaped to Switzerland in 1945 where he experienced great financial hardship.
At the end of 1993, the best known German composer took on the presidency of the
State Music Bureau "Reichsmusikkammer" in order to "do good and prevent further catastrophe" – naturally a small portion of political short-sightedness and selfishness played a part as well. Either way, Strauss fought against the Aryan policies and for a targeted art funding, which made him totally rebuffed by Hitler.
First Conflicts with the Nazis
Joseph Goebbels, the National Socialist Reichsminister of Propaganga and Director of the State Cultural Bureau, did not trust Strauss. The Gestapo began to control Strauss' letters – one of them being the letter he had written to Stefan Zweig, where he expressed his anger with the Nazi-regime.
Strauss had insisted on including the name of Jewish poet Stefan Zweig in the programme at the premiere of "Silent Woman" on June 24, 1935 in Dresden. This made him lose his "honorary position" and of course ruined any chances that the opera had of succeeding.
An ambiguous period began: on one hand the attempt to oppose the regime, and on the other hand a feeling of ingratiation (Strauss was appointed to write the Berlin "Olympic Hymns" by the Olympic committee and directed the premiere himself). However the most troubling of all was his (as the Nazis put it ") Jewish "versippte" (intermarried) family.
Zweig recommended Joseph Gregor as poet, who would then re-work the former's libretto of "Peace Day" ("Friedenstag"). The premiere would take place in Munich on July 24, 1938. On October 15, the bucolic tragedy "Daphne" was performed in Dresden, where the libretto was also written by Gregor.
Strauss in Vienna under the Protection of Gauleiter Baldur von Schirach
Strauss spent most of the war years in Vienna where he could remain closer to his family (who were under the protection of Gauleiter Baldur von Schirach). He also celebrated his 75th (1939) and 80th Birthdays there, as Berlin had already issued the order that the "personal travel of our leading men" in the case of the aging composer, had to be stopped.
Goebbels and Strauss could not hide the contempt they had for one another. However the "minister's toy boy" as Strauss referred to him, was sitting on the sunnier side.
The Last Operas: "The Love of Danae" and "Capriccio"
Alongside occasional compositions such as "Japanese Festival Music" 1941, the last operas "the Love of Danae" and "Capriccio" were also created. These were composed in a close working relationship with Clemens Krauss who wrote the lyrics and directed the premigere on October 26, 1942. Strauss writes that "My life's work comes to an end with "Capriccio". In Garmisch he transcribed old scores, with the aim of accumulating objects of value for his grandchildren.
Escape to Switzerland – Financial Ruin
The sadness for his destroyed homeland created the desire in Strauss to compose more works. "Metamorphasis" commissioned by Paul Sacher, was a profound statement of mourning. Another challenge came from the American occupation soldiers and oboist John de Lancie. An oboe concert took place in October 1945 in Switzerland, to which Strauss and Pauline had finally escaped.
Strauss found himself financially ruined after the Second World War, as he did after the first. The royalties abroad were blocked, the musical life in Germany and Austria ruined. Strauss was given a friendly reception from friends and acquaintances in Switzerland.
1949 – Death of 85 years old Strauss in Garmisch
Shortly before his death in 1949, Strauss relived some of his old fame and recognition. A Strauss festival took place in London in 1948 and Munich began preparations for several honours that would be awarded to him for his 85th birthday in 1949.
The aged artist continued to compose a few more lieder but he focused on his ,,artistic legacy". Strauss' estate is managed by his family, and the Richard Strauss institute in Garmisch-Partenkirchen as well as the yearly Strauss days hold the memory of Strauss and his music alive.
"Artistic Legacy":
In April 1948, Richard Strauss wrote an elaborate letter which became known by this name, to his close friend Karl Böhm. The letter included the "program for an opera museum to which the cultured world was entitled just as much as to the Pinakothek, the Prado or the Louvre." The octogenarian no longer believed in the renewal of the opera but felt that it's most important works deserved to be preserved.
For the most part, the maestro's estate was kept at the house in Garmisch. Strauss' daughter in law became an indispensable employee. She continued to maintain the archives until her death in 1991. Since then, the grandchildren of Strauss have taken over this duty (in particular Richard's wife Gabriele Strauss-Hotter – the daughter of the great Strauss-interpreter Hans Hotter who had worked on the premieres of "Freedom Day" and "Capriccio".). In Garmisch-Partenkirchen, there is also the Richard Strauss Institute as well as Richard Strauss days which are held on an annual basis.
Without Strauss' works, it would be impossible to imagine the repertoires of musical institutes throughout the world. More than 50 years after his death, and given the popularity of his many operas, orchestral pieces and lieder, Strauss remained the most performed classical composer of the 20th century.
[Article taken from Richard Strauss' website]
Just found out about this production of Intermezzo from Theater Basel, available until May 21.
https://youtu.be/RgShK3GLnT0
--Bruce
Quote from: Brewski on May 15, 2021, 10:15:34 AM
Just found out about this production of Intermezzo from Theater Basel, available until May 21.
https://youtu.be/RgShK3GLnT0
--Bruce
Lovely, Bruce, but I still haven't heard the recording with Sawallisch I bought a month or so ago. :-[
A lovely featurette on Eine Alpensifonie:
https://www.youtube.com/v/mh6tR-7J93E
I wish it went into more depth a la Tilson Thomas' Keeping Score series, but I'm still crossing my fingers that a worthy Strauss documentary comes along that does this composer's music and life justice like those wonderful John Bridcut BBC documentaries on composers like Vaughan Williams and Britten.
"Adobe Flash Player is no longer supported"
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 19, 2021, 02:32:15 PM
A lovely featurette on Eine Alpensifonie:
https://www.youtube.com/v/mh6tR-7J93E
I wish it went into more depth a la Tilson Thomas' Keeping Score series, but I'm still crossing my fingers that a worthy Strauss documentary comes along that does this composer's music and life justice like those wonderful John Bridcut BBC documentaries on composers like Vaughan Williams and Britten.
There you go.
Quote from: Maestro267 on May 24, 2021, 03:17:43 AM
"Adobe Flash Player is no longer supported"
Even though Flash Player is no longer supported, I can still post videos and those videos are visible to me. I suppose they aren't for others? It seems when you post a YouTube video on here, you get this long address that mentions within that address flash being disabled.
Just noticed the Pentatone label has three different Alpensinfonien from the last 15 years -
(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/PTC5186339.jpg) (https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/PTC5186628.jpg) (https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/PTC5186802.jpg)
Recorded in 2008, 2016, 2019
A few thoughts:
(a) is this indicative of a resurgent interest in the piece in general? In the mid-1900s it was considered one of Strauss' least popular orchestral works.
(b) should the label be called Alpentone?
(c) putting all the images next to each other indicates a clear design aesthetic shift toward radical simplicity, like eventually their covers will just be the word MUSIC and a drawing of a single line
Although I haven't compared them yet, only the 2008 Pittsburgh recording offers a coupling (and only it doesn't involve German radio).
Quote from: Brian on January 18, 2022, 06:13:04 AM
Just noticed the Pentatone label has three different Alpensinfonien from the last 15 years -
(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/PTC5186339.jpg) (https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/PTC5186628.jpg) (https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/PTC5186802.jpg)
Recorded in 2008, 2016, 2019
A few thoughts:
(a) is this indicative of a resurgent interest in the piece in general? In the mid-1900s it was considered one of Strauss' least popular orchestral works.
(b) should the label be called Alpentone?
(c) putting all the images next to each other indicates a clear design aesthetic shift toward radical simplicity, like eventually their covers will just be the word MUSIC and a drawing of a single line
Although I haven't compared them yet, only the 2008 Pittsburgh recording offers a coupling (and only it doesn't involve German radio).
It does seem that Pentatone
likes this work, but it's no different than a label that has recorded Beethoven's 9th for the umpteenth time. In fact,
Eine Alpensinfonie is greatly encouraged from me! ;) Anyway, I don't find it strange that the label has three of them in their catalog. Of these three recordings, the Janowski is "okay" nothing special, but the Orozco-Estrada is magnificent in every possible sense of the word. I haven't heard the Jurowski yet (even though I own it, it's still sealed).
The 'Alpensinfonie' has always been one of the main classical hits among hi-fi/sound-display interested people. This has secured a certain market for it. I don't know however, if internet pluralism (as opposed to the old magazine/book-centered era) has perhaps reduced its position somewhat.
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 18, 2022, 06:21:16 AM
It does seem that Pentatone likes this work, but it's no different than a label that has recorded Beethoven's 9th for the umpteenth time. In fact, Eine Alpensinfonie is greatly encouraged from me! ;) Anyway, I don't find it strange that the label has three of them in their catalog. Of these three recordings, the Janowski is "okay" nothing special, but the Orozco-Estrada is magnificent in every possible sense of the word. I haven't heard the Jurowski yet (even though I own it, it's still sealed).
Speaking of
Alpines, I'm just listening to
DG's Sinopoli recording. Holy smokes, what a dessert of a work-piece how it is performed here!
This is impossibly more hedonistic and decadent as any other performance I've ever heard before!?. Luxurious, elegant, sumptuous, 4K rendition!
The Italian equivalent to Barbirolli?
Man, this rendition is quite a bit
exaggerated in gestures for sure! Also, I hasten to add, if you don't get the work with this rendition, nothing could do it.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 18, 2022, 02:42:08 PM
Speaking of Alpines, I'm just listening to DG's Sinopoli recording. Holy smokes, what a dessert of a work-piece how it is performed here!
This is impossibly more hedonistic and decadent as any other performance I've ever heard before!?. Luxurious, elegant, sumptuous, 4K rendition!
The Italian equivalent to Barbirolli?
Man, this rendition is quite a bit exaggerated in gestures for sure! Also, I hasten to add, if you don't get the work with this rendition, nothing could do it.
I was just listening to the Sinopoli recording of
Alpensinfonie the other night and I agree, Cesar. Sinopoli was in his element in Strauss.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81tVYkWObxL._SX425_.jpg)
Listening to this favorite Don Quixote -- a big, juicy, colorful recording -- I find that David Hurwitz's knock on Karajan -- that he lets the strings drown out the winds in "tutti" passages -- is true. The Berlin solo winds are glorious, of course, but in tutti passages the creamy strings almost drown out what the winds are doing, though not completely (as far as I can tell as I wouldn't know they were there otherwise). I do enjoy those creamy strings as much as anyone would, though. I'll have to compare later with another favorite, Kempe/Berlin, on a Tower Japan SACD.
Quote from: Daverz on January 18, 2022, 05:59:39 PM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81tVYkWObxL._SX425_.jpg)
Listening to this favorite Don Quixote -- a big, juicy, colorful recording -- I find that David Hurwitz's knock on Karajan -- that he lets the strings drown out the winds in "tutti" passages -- is true. The Berlin solo winds are glorious, of course, but in tutti passages the creamy strings almost drown out what the winds are doing, though not completely (as far as I can tell as I wouldn't know they were there otherwise). I do enjoy those creamy strings as much as anyone would, though. I'll have to compare later with another favorite, Kempe/Berlin, on a Tower Japan SACD.
Today I listened to the Clemens Krauss / VPO recording (also with Pierre Fournier) with delight and not a little wonder. The winds are succulent and highly personable. Despite the 1953 mono recording one hears wind balances that are always true. Fournier is at his most unabashedly romantic self, digging and gliding at will on his instrument. Not a first choice as it is almost over the top compared to today's more objective POV, but certainly an ear opener for those who think Don Q is not Strauss at his finest.
Cross-posted from the WAYLTN thread:
Richard Strauss
Taillefer, op. 52
Wandrers Sturmlied, op. 14
Die Tageszeiten, op. 76Felicity Lott, soprano
Johan Botha, tenor
Michael Volle, baritone
Ernst-Senff Chorus
Dresden Philharmonic
Michel PlassonThis is my first time hearing these R. Strauss symphonic choral works:
TailleferQuoteAn 11th Century minstrel who rode into battle alongside William the Conqueror during the Norman invasion of England. According to legend, Taillefer sang at the Battle of Hastings whilst juggling his sword and singly riding to the English line amidst song.
An extremely militaristic cantata with one rip-snorter of an orchestral battle sequence in the last third of its 18 minutes.
Taillefer is a loud clamorous work with full-throated singing and the only solo singing on the recording.
Wandrers SturmliedAnother full-to-the-hilt orchestrated choral work, although the second half of the 17 minutes affords some overwrought Romantic lyricism following the choral storm. Split into six-part chorus,
Wandrers Sturmlied sounds a like an unrelenting, harrowing work for chorus. It brings to mind Brahms' orchestrated choral works such as
Triumphlied or
Gesang der Parzen.
Die TageszeitenThis is the jewel of the recording. Written for men's chorus and orchestra,
Tageszeiten is the most successful of voice-to-orchestra integration of the three here. At times, the chorus almost becomes an orchestral voice and the two forces receive equal measure texturally. The 2nd movement 'Mittagsruh' had some unexpectedly, emotionally powerful climaxes, despite its more relaxed atmosphere. Richard Strauss evokes the Evening and Night most colorfully, and this 4-movement work really caught me off guard as something quite special.
https://youtu.be/tj-RTRfUV-k?t=232 (https://youtu.be/tj-RTRfUV-k?t=232)A fine recording all around, and it was a welcome surprise to my month's focus on R. Strauss' orchestral music. I wasn't familiar with any of these works, and while it might not be music from Strauss that is essential, oh boy, did I enjoy myself! I look forward to living with these for a while.
VS
(https://coverartarchive.org/release/1212ec47-23cd-440e-8941-644e81ea1615/32088467323.jpg) https://www.youtube.com/v/tj-RTRfUV-k?&ab_channel=LeoMarillier
(https://img.discogs.com/84vGvwVSProBhyPTlQgmPzZhmVg=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-10541315-1499536258-9953.jpeg.jpg)
The CD above has meant tons of pleasure to me lately. Two utterly accomplished suites that extract brilliant and meaningful passages from both operas.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on April 22, 2022, 02:46:48 PM
(https://img.discogs.com/84vGvwVSProBhyPTlQgmPzZhmVg=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-10541315-1499536258-9953.jpeg.jpg)
The CD above has meant tons of pleasure to me lately. Two utterly accomplished suites that extract brilliant and meaningful passages from both operas.
An exceptional recording I played some two weeks back. I was particularly keen on hearing the
Elektra Suite and was not disappointed.
VS
Quote from: VonStupp on April 23, 2022, 02:28:27 PM
An exceptional recording I played some two weeks back. I was particularly keen on hearing the Elektra Suite and was not disappointed.
VS
Great! Even though I prefer the whole operas, there's no way to deny the goods of the symphonic synthesis.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on April 23, 2022, 07:56:01 PM
Great! Even though I prefer the whole operas, there's no way to deny the goods of the symphonic synthesis.
Agreed. Much of the fun of these sorts of things is seeing how it is put together from its sources.
VS
Some notes on comparing Also Sprach Zarathustra recordings that I originally posted in current listening:
I don't want to listen to Also Sprach Zarathustra two more times tonight, so I will compare the introduction and Tanzlied. I'm streaming all 3 recordings from the Naxos Music Library to try to make the comparison fair.
In the introduction, I think I like Nelsons better than Kempe. The trumpet tone is better, and Nelsons makes more of the decrescendos and crescendos written in the score. I think the modern sound quality is also an advantage. The Karajan is probably the most exciting opening: the trumpets are the softest at the initial entrance, and the tutti entrance is surprising. Karajan doesn't decrescendo as much as Nelsons.
In the Tanzlied, I think Nelsons and Karajan are of similar quality. There are particular moments that I prefer in one or the other, but I overall think that Nelsons' tempo choices make it flow better. However the solo violin in Leipzig sometimes gets a little buried. Kempe seems to have the good qualities of both, but with slightly lower sound quality.
Based on these excerpts, I think my order of preference would be Karajan>Nelsons>Kempe, with the Kempe lower only because of the sound quality. All 3 are excellent recordings, so I see no problem with your choice of gold standards. However, I didn't expect Nelsons to be this competitive: I'm pleasantly surprised at how good it is. (Of course, other people who may have been listening to Strauss for much longer than I have might disagree!)
(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/others/00028948620418.gif) (https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/others/190295487201.gif) (https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/others/00028944744125.gif)
Well, I was listening to my Strauss collection (about a dozen or so CDs) and noticed on the previous page several posts of mine from two years ago that show the same recordings - the only change is the addition of the 2-disc DigiPack below, i.e.
The Planets & Also Sprach Zarathustra performed by the Boston SO, Michael Steinberg conducting from 1970/71 - these were recorded w/ DG's quadraphonic technology at the time onto 4 tapes - the package contains a remastered CD and a BD Audio (24 bit, 192 kHz in 4.0 surround sound - details quoted below w/ much more at the link, if interested).
I'm now listening to the BD playing in my blu-ray player w/ sound sent optically to my 2-speaker stereo receiver - wearing headphones, so not appreciating the full effect of 4 speakers - sounds great w/ the phones on but assume would be even better w/ an expanded speaker system.
Sorry, but still not collecting Strauss' vocal music despite its reputation - I did have the
Four Last Songs (believe w/ Renée Fleming) but gave them away a while back - no full operas in my future, sorry for 'lovers' of these works - but any other newer instrumental works, orchestral or chamber would pique my interest. Dave :)
QuoteContinuing our rediscovery of DG's 1970s quadrophonic ambitions before anyone had even HEARD of surround sound, comes William Steinberg's famous readings of Strauss' "Also sprach Zarathustra" and Holst's "The Planets", remastered at 24-bit/192kHz from the original 4-track tapes and presented on Blu-ray Audio in 4.0 Surround + CD (new stereo remastering). The booklet includes notes on the original concept and remasters – have a read of this great story. (Source (https://www.amazon.com/Holst-Planets-R-Strauss-Zarathustra-Blu-Ray/dp/B079B3587V))
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81y3tfAmdpL._SL1400_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/614IxMEawdL.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on June 30, 2022, 08:26:16 AM
Well, I was listening to my Strauss collection (about a dozen or so CDs) and noticed on the previous page several posts of mine from two years ago that show the same recordings
Sorry, but still not collecting Strauss' vocal music despite its reputation - I did have the Four Last Songs (believe w/ Renée Fleming) but gave them away a while back - no full operas in my future, sorry for 'lovers' of these works - but any other newer instrumental works, orchestral or chamber would pique my interest. Dave :)
Dave, I know
The Unknown Strauss 15-CD collection filled in some orchestral holes for me, although not all of it is 'unknown', and Rickenbacher is not a favorite Straussian of mine.
Of course, each were released separately for picking and choosing so you can avoid the operas and choral music.
VS
(https://images.universal-music.de/img/assets/511/511160/195/The-Unknown-Richard-Strauss-Cover.jpg)
This disk was my introduction to Strauss music, specifically the Alpine Symphony. Not an easy piece to enjoy for me on the basis of a single listen. Maybe it's not an especially good version?
(https://i.discogs.com/8p_BHHn3S_dKFNlJ3Ad4BzHvt5A1yZiWxB-aoEXykMk/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:598/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTEyMTQ5/MDk5LTE1OTE5OTY4/MzYtNDU1NS5qcGVn.jpeg)
Quote from: Artem on June 30, 2022, 12:07:28 PM
This disk was my introduction to Strauss music, specifically the Alpine Symphony. Not an easy piece to enjoy for me on the basis of a single listen. Maybe it's not an especially good version?
(https://i.discogs.com/8p_BHHn3S_dKFNlJ3Ad4BzHvt5A1yZiWxB-aoEXykMk/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:598/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTEyMTQ5/MDk5LTE1OTE5OTY4/MzYtNDU1NS5qcGVn.jpeg)
While I'm not particularly well-versed in recordings of the work, I'll still recommend Haitink's near- perfect recording for Philips with the RCO. It's worth having for the sublime woodwinds alone.
Quote from: VonStupp on June 30, 2022, 11:16:00 AM
Dave, I know The Unknown Strauss 15-CD collection filled in some orchestral holes for me, although not all of it is 'unknown', and Rickenbacher is not a favorite Straussian of mine.
Of course, each were released separately for picking and choosing so you can avoid the operas and choral music.
VS
(https://images.universal-music.de/img/assets/511/511160/195/The-Unknown-Richard-Strauss-Cover.jpg)
Thanks
VS - I've looked at the 15-disc box which would more that double my collection of Strauss - not sure that I want much more that already owned - I'd like to explore his 'piano music' but not sure if there is more that a couple of worthwhile discs and uncertain of the 'best' performances. Comments much appreciated - Dave :)
I am pretty sure the "Unknown R. Strauss" would be a bit much for a casual fan... I didn't even know there was solo piano music, this is a tiny niche within a niche of youthful/unknown works.
According to your lists you are already rather well provided with some of the rather unknown chamber pieces. As mentioned above, I am still not sure if you have two major pieces, the Burleske and the violin sonata (often coupled with non-Strauss). And IF you like tone poems, make sure to try the lesser known ones such as Macbeth, Sinfonia Domestica or the earlyish suite/tone poem "Aus Italien" (From Italy).
You already know that you are missing the more important half of Strauss if you cannot get into opera (or lieder).
Quote from: SonicMan46 on June 30, 2022, 04:12:28 PM
Thanks VS - I've looked at the 15-disc box which would more that double my collection of Strauss - not sure that I want much more that already owned - I'd like to explore his 'piano music' but not sure if there is more that a couple of worthwhile discs and uncertain of the 'best' performances. Comments much appreciated - Dave :)
Not even I invested in all of these 'unknown' works. Mostly to fill out some vocal/orchestral numbers I wanted. :)
VS
Quote from: Artem on June 30, 2022, 12:07:28 PM
This disk was my introduction to Strauss music, specifically the Alpine Symphony. Not an easy piece to enjoy for me on the basis of a single listen. Maybe it's not an especially good version?
(https://i.discogs.com/8p_BHHn3S_dKFNlJ3Ad4BzHvt5A1yZiWxB-aoEXykMk/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:598/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTEyMTQ5/MDk5LTE1OTE5OTY4/MzYtNDU1NS5qcGVn.jpeg)
I wouldn't fault Bohm, but an old mono recording of a work whose effect is based on opulent orchestration is not an ideal introduction, I would say. Karajan's recording is one benchmark, Haitink's Concertgebouw recording, mentioned above, is another splendid option.
Quote from: Artem on June 30, 2022, 12:07:28 PM
This disk was my introduction to Strauss music, specifically the Alpine Symphony. Not an easy piece to enjoy for me on the basis of a single listen. Maybe it's not an especially good version?
(https://i.discogs.com/8p_BHHn3S_dKFNlJ3Ad4BzHvt5A1yZiWxB-aoEXykMk/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:598/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTEyMTQ5/MDk5LTE1OTE5OTY4/MzYtNDU1NS5qcGVn.jpeg)
I say the performance is quite good, but my own enjoyment was marred by the fidelity of the recording. Certainly not in the same league as Karajan's or the newer one from Andrés Orozco-Estrada on Pentatone.
Quote from: Jo498 on June 30, 2022, 11:24:12 PM
I am pretty sure the "Unknown R. Strauss" would be a bit much for a casual fan... I didn't even know there was solo piano music, this is a tiny niche within a niche of youthful/unknown works.
According to your lists you are already rather well provided with some of the rather unknown chamber pieces. As mentioned above, I am still not sure if you have two major pieces, the Burleske and the violin sonata (often coupled with non-Strauss). And IF you like tone poems, make sure to try the lesser known ones such as Macbeth, Sinfonia Domestica or the earlyish suite/tone poem "Aus Italien" (From Italy).
You already know that you are missing the more important half of Strauss if you cannot get into opera (or lieder).
Quote from: VonStupp on July 01, 2022, 05:16:05 AM
Not even I invested in all of these 'unknown' works. Mostly to fill out some vocal/orchestral numbers I wanted. :)
VS
Thanks again
Guys for your help - the
Violin Sonata had plenty of selections on Amazon but matched w/ others I already owned, however, I found the one below w/ Shosty's own work, not owned by me (good reviews on Amazon and also in Fanfare) - as to the lesser poem tones; hard to find except for boxes, but located the other disc below w/
Macbeth & Symphonia Domestica - should be enough for me.
As to operas, the statement above applies to many composers in which I'm 'missing' an important part of their oeuvre, but my interest is non-existent. When I was a teenager growing up in the Toledo (Ohio) area, my father was a BIG opera lover and used to get subscription tickets to the seasons at the Toledo Art Museum (they brought in national touring venues); my mother refused to go so being the eldest son I was 'dragged' along for 2 or 3 years, mostly Italian w/ some Mozart (and probably others I don't remember) - that traumatic teenage experience probably permanently damaged my 'you gotta love opera' genes - sorry at my post-retirement age, I rather listen to music enjoyed most by me. :laugh: Dave
P.S. there are some 'piano recordings' but not much, so unless someone 'chimes in' on whether desirable, I'll likely pass. :-\
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81u4zRwc6hL._SL1400_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71sQPF+xbwL._SL1189_.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on June 30, 2022, 04:12:28 PM
Thanks VS - I've looked at the 15-disc box which would more that double my collection of Strauss - not sure that I want much more that already owned - I'd like to explore his 'piano music' but not sure if there is more that a couple of worthwhile discs and uncertain of the 'best' performances. Comments much appreciated - Dave :)
Strauss' piano music is decent enough, but nothing revelatory about it. The chamber music is rather nice, but some of it is forgettable. For me, where Strauss truly shines is in operatic, orchestral and lieder.
FWIW,
The Unknown Richard Strauss box set is alright, but better performances of much of this repertoire can be found elsewhere.
I'm looking to explore some more performances of Salome if anyone has suggestions. I have Solti and Karajan.
Quote from: hvbias on September 22, 2022, 04:10:12 PM
I'm looking to explore some more performances of Salome if anyone has suggestions. I have Solti and Karajan.
Caballé on RCA/Sony, perhaps.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/7178mVhHzIL._SX522_.jpg)
https://youtu.be/rJ3LFIQb5Fs?t=518 (Hurwitz)
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2019/Jan/Strauss_Salome_survey.pdf (Ralph Moore, PDF file)
Another purchase from Presto in transit:
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODU1MDU1MS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1NTI3ODUzNjB9)
That is a great set. All around great performances in excellent 70s analog.
Quote from: DavidW on February 16, 2023, 01:03:55 PMThat is a great set. All around great performances in excellent 70s analog.
Yes David. I already own the old green EMI set. For the price being very reasonable, decided to splurge and get the reissue of these fabulous recordings.
Not normally much of a Strauss fan but I was surprised on listening to the Symphony No.2 (written when he was 19) to hear how good it was.
Worthy of a post on the "pieces that have blown you away recently" thread. A first listen to this new release;
(https://i.ndcd.net/2/Item/500/603082.jpg)
Goodness me - The 4 Last Songs arranged for choir and solo violin. The KammerChor Saarbrucken are just stunning. Perfect blend and intonation. Of course the spirit of the work is changed but this is radiantly beautiful and deeply touching. The solo violin entwines itself in and around the choir. If the idea of this kind of arrangement engages you in the least do try and hear this. The whole disc is very fine indeed but the Last Songs are very special.
Now listening to Disc 1 of this remarkable set:
Also sprach Zarathustra, Op. 30
Tod und Verklarung, Op. 24
Der Rosenkavalier, Op. 59 Waltz Suite
Capriccio, Op. 85 Moonlight Music
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODU1MDU1MS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1NTI3ODUzNjB9)
Quote from: OrchestralNut on March 28, 2023, 11:26:30 AMNow listening to Disc 1 of this remarkable set:
Also sprach Zarathustra, Op. 30
Tod und Verklarung, Op. 24
Der Rosenkavalier, Op. 59 Waltz Suite
Capriccio, Op. 85 Moonlight Music
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODU1MDU1MS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1NTI3ODUzNjB9)
I listened to that disc this morning too.
The most breakneck performance of Burleske that I've heard:
(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/sa/lb/b4oilu5i1lbsa_600.jpg)
You have to admire the sheer energy of BPO's playing.
Have you heard Argerich+Abbado from a Berlin New years Eve concert in the 1990s? I don't know the Barenboim but I can hardly imagine more necks broken... ;)
Quote from: Jo498 on April 01, 2023, 12:29:22 AMHave you heard Argerich+Abbado from a Berlin New years Eve concert in the 1990s? I don't know the Barenboim but I can hardly imagine more necks broken... ;)
I have not. Thank you for the suggestion.
Now listening to Disc 2 of this set:
Till Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche, Op. 28
Don Juan, Op. 20
Ein Heldenleben, Op. 40
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODU1MDU1MS4yLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1NTEzNzMyNTh9)
Quote from: Franco_Manitobain on April 27, 2023, 05:58:17 AMNow listening to Disc 2 of this set:
Till Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche, Op. 28
Don Juan, Op. 20
Ein Heldenleben, Op. 40
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODU1MDU1MS4yLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1NTEzNzMyNTh9)
How does it compare to von Karajan box?
Quote from: relm1 on April 27, 2023, 06:55:05 AMHow does it compare to von Karajan box?
These are the only recordings of Strauss' music that I have, so I cannot comment of speak to the Karajan performances.
However, the Karajan performances of Richard Strauss I believe are widely highly regarded and respected. It is probably a 1a and 1b between Karajan and Kempe. :)
Quote from: Franco_Manitobain on April 27, 2023, 05:58:17 AMNow listening to Disc 2 of this set:
Till Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche, Op. 28
Don Juan, Op. 20
Ein Heldenleben, Op. 40
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODU1MDU1MS4yLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1NTEzNzMyNTh9)
Me too, last night. Very good stuff.
Quote from: relm1 on April 27, 2023, 06:55:05 AMHow does it compare to von Karajan box?
They are both excellent boxes, performed by stunning orchestras like the Berliner Philharmoniker and the Staatskapelle Dresden; Kempe's recordings have very fast rhythms (considerably faster than Karajan's performances - for example, Karajan's
Don Juan is two minutes longer), which maybe seem rather rushed at times, but with great energy and intensity anyway, creating so a compelling atmosphere; their sound can not result as beautiful and accurate as Karajan's, nonetheless they are incredibly colourful and expressive, the orchestral timbres and their balance are very well handled.
I wish Karajan had recorded all Strauss' symphonic poems, what a pity he never did that!
I must confess that l am not familiar with these recordings by Kempe, though I've been aware of his reputation for nearly fifty years. :-[
So I'm going to fix that over the next couple of days. I'll report back in this thread, once I've formed some impressions. 8)
Quote from: LKB on April 29, 2023, 07:27:12 PMI must confess that l am not familiar with these recordings by Kempe, though I've been aware of his reputation for nearly fifty years. :-[
So I'm going to fix that over the next couple of days. I'll report back in this thread, once I've formed some impressions. 8)
Terrific, look forward to your impressions!
Why on Dog's Earth does no pianist ever play the "Burleske"? This a sensational showcase for the keyboard with plenty of melodic appeal.
Quote from: LKB on April 29, 2023, 07:27:12 PMI must confess that l am not familiar with these recordings by Kempe, though I've been aware of his reputation for nearly fifty years. :-[
So I'm going to fix that over the next couple of days. I'll report back in this thread, once I've formed some impressions. 8)
Kempe is definitely the set to have, and then get Zinman on Arte Nova. Supplement these with as much Jarvi on Chandos as you can get your hands on (especially the orchestral songs with Felicity Lott and Eileen Hulse) together with Ivan Fischer's "Josephs Legende" and Wakasugi's "Schlagobers". If you win the lottery, also try to get the DG complete operas box...
Quote from: Franco_Manitobain on April 27, 2023, 05:58:17 AMNow listening to Disc 2 of this set:
Till Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche, Op. 28
Don Juan, Op. 20
Ein Heldenleben, Op. 40
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODU1MDU1MS4yLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1NTEzNzMyNTh9)
It p*sses me off when companies describe their product as "Complete Orchestral Works" when they patently aren't, as was the case with the Brilliant Classics otherwise-excellent Respighi set. In this Warner reissue neither of the ballets is fully represented, just by fragments, or the Symphonic Fantasia on "Die Frau ohne Schatten". Nevertheless, it's great that Warner have seen fit to reissue these splendid recordings...
Quote from: Albion on May 01, 2023, 01:28:09 PMIt p*sses me off when companies describe their product as "Complete Orchestral Works" when they patently aren't, as was the case with the Brilliant Classics otherwise-excellent Respighi set. In this Warner reissue neither of the ballets is fully represented, just by fragments, or the Symphonic Fantasia on "Die Frau ohne Schatten". Nevertheless, it's great that Warner have seen fit to reissue these splendid recordings...
Nor are his two symphonies represented in this set. I remember being confused when I first got the box. Nevertheless, it is, or was, a steal for under $20 for something like nine discs of great Richard Strauss.
Quote from: vers la flamme on May 01, 2023, 02:08:00 PMNor are his two symphonies represented in this set. I remember being confused when I first got the box. Nevertheless, it is, or was, a steal for under $20 for something like nine discs of great Richard Strauss.
I WISH than Chandos would box their complete Neeme Jarvi Strauss recordings including the orchestral songs - it would fly off the shelves...
Quote from: Albion on May 01, 2023, 12:53:04 PMWhy on Dog's Earth does no pianist ever play the "Burleske"? This a sensational showcase for the keyboard with plenty of melodic appeal.
Kempe is definitely the set to have, and then get Zinman on Arte Nova. Supplement these with as much Jarvi on Chandos as you can get your hands on (especially the orchestral songs with Felicity Lott and Eileen Hulse) together with Ivan Fischer's "Josephs Legende" and Wakasugi's "Schlagobers". If you win the lottery, also try to get the DG complete operas box...
If you are an insomniac definitely get Zinman - a guaranteed snooze-fest. Did Strauss ever sound so unvirile and "nice"?
Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 02, 2023, 01:59:09 AMIf you are an insomniac definitely get Zinman - a guaranteed snooze-fest. Did Strauss ever sound so unvirile and "nice"?
;D
It's good to compare and contrast. Certainly preferable to Karajan's schmulz. Plus Zinman gives you the audaciously vulgar "Festliches Praludium" which is a real cholesterol enhancer, a good complement to "Festmusik der Stadt Wien" if you want death by voluptuousness...
Quote from: Albion on May 02, 2023, 05:24:55 AM;D
It's good to compare and contrast. Certainly preferable to Karajan's schmulz. Plus Zinman gives you the audaciously vulgar "Festliches Praludium" which is a real cholesterol enhancer, a good complement to "Festmusik der Stadt Wien" if you want death by voluptuousness...
But Karajan is not "just schmalz. I'm no great fan but his Strauss is exciting and athletic - Zinman is not. Zinman (who I quite like in lots of other repertoire) manages to make the Festliches Praeludium sound decorous. For the Praeludium I like the old Bohm/BPO/DG recording and also Cincinnati on Telarc are pretty exciting.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51tr45MGSSL._SY498_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)(https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b2739dfc64f6c3c6ea17e4d0974f)
The festmusik is marvellous too!
Now listening to disc 4
Don Quixote, Op. 35
Paul Tortelier, cello
Max Rostal, viola
Dance Suite from harsichord pieces by Francois Couperin
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODU1MDU1MS4yLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1NTEzNzMyNTh9)
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODY1MjgyMC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1NTkxMjE1ODd9)
Macbeth doesn't get all that much attention but it's got a really good main tune. Hearing this interpretation and it's good stuff -
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81CRo4k28AL._UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg)
Quote from: lordlance on June 27, 2023, 04:58:41 AMMacbeth doesn't get all that much attention but it's got a really good main tune. Hearing this interpretation and it's good stuff -
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81CRo4k28AL._UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg)
Both of those works—Aus Italien and Macbeth—are kind of underrated, but both good I think. I like the Kempe/Dresden recording of both.
Quote from: lordlance on June 27, 2023, 04:58:41 AMMacbeth doesn't get all that much attention but it's got a really good main tune. Hearing this interpretation and it's good stuff -
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81CRo4k28AL._UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg)
That recording is certainly remarkable and my favourite about that composition, Zinman is a very fine straussian interpreter in my opinion. Maybe
Macbeth isn't as masterful as other Strauss' tone poems, but it is a quite beautiful and colourful work anyway; personally speaking, I like it very much too.
I am not sure why Symphonia Domestica isn't played more often. It's noisy which might make it be considered as overblown but it's not as bad as Gaîté Parisienne. I heard Konwitschny's live performance on Orfeo and not a bad performance by any means:
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODAwMzQ2Ny4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1NTA2MDg2OTJ9)
Quote from: lordlance on July 19, 2023, 06:04:29 AMI am not sure why Symphonia Domestica isn't played more often. It's noisy which might make it be considered as overblown but it's not as bad as Gaîté Parisienne.
;D
Chuckling, since I might start using this reply to most anything that I don't particularly like. "Well, it's not as bad as
Gaîté Parisienne."
-Bruce
Why did Offenbach have to catch a stray bullet there ;D I'll confess that I don't know the Domestica very well, though I have two recordings of it. Perhaps I'll hear it again soon.
A Strauss work that I've been enjoying lately is the Oboe Concerto, prompted by my purchase of this excellent CD:
(https://i.postimg.cc/QdXmtHpf/image.png)
Very beautiful. I like Strauss's "Indian Summer" works of the postwar era.
I'd say because Domestica is egotistical as hell but then so is Ein Heldenleben. Still fantastic music though, on both counts.
Quote from: lordlance on July 19, 2023, 06:04:29 AMI am not sure why Symphonia Domestica isn't played more often. It's noisy which might make it be considered as overblown but it's not as bad as Gaîté Parisienne.
SO easy to mix the two up......
I was comparing the bombast of Domestica with Parisienne. Something even worse would be Stokowski's Aurora's Wedding Ballet Music - an arrangement of Tchaikovsky's Sleeping Beauty - which is probably the worst bombastic piece of music I've heard. Parisienne gets grating so I have never finished it. Point is Symphonia Domestica isn't that bad.
Also I don't think the average concertgoing audience would mind a raucous piece at all. It might fare well.
Quote from: lordlance on July 21, 2023, 12:42:24 AMStokowski's Aurora ballet
What work?? You mean Tchaikovsky's Sleeping Beauty??
Quote from: relm1 on July 21, 2023, 05:59:10 AMWhat work?? You mean Tchaikovsky's Sleeping Beauty??
Edited for clarity.
Quote from: relm1 on July 21, 2023, 05:59:10 AMWhat work?? You mean Tchaikovsky's Sleeping Beauty??
Aurora's Wedding is in effect just Act III of Sleeping Beauty. It was Diaghilev who chopped that act from the complete ballet. A notable feature of the original score is the different instrumentation Tchaikovsky used for that act. I don't know to what degree Stokowski tweaked that scoring - probably a bit as was his want but I don't get a sense that it was major reconstructive surgery. So if you find the ASct bomastic probably blame Tchaik not Stowky
Doing an orchestralsurvey of Strauss of sorts:
1. Symphonia Domestica:
a. Zinman/Tonhalle Zurich
Zinman conducts the piece to the point of being underwhelming. Almost feels rushing it. Not good. More troubling though, about 10:00 in the last movement, the music reaches a cathartic climax and you're thinking it's all going to end gloriously. But no he just doodles for two minutes afterwards. Feels like a rock band riffing too long. It just sounds like not knowing when to end. There's the unorthodox effect of what sounds like a clothwasher (?) in those last 3 minutes. But then the actual climax happens which is actually rather short. The last huzzah. And that is no match for what happened at minute 10. Dave might be right about Strauss not knowing how to end his pieces.
b. Mehta/BPO (Digital Concert Hall)
Rather unsurprisingly it's much better executed. BPO outclass Zurich. Rich sound. Not rushed. At the same spot as Zinman in the last movement (10:00), I knew the piece wasn't going to end so I was better prepared. I thought this isn't so bad. But nope then it kept going 3 or 4 times after I thought it would end. Yet again in noodling territory. Sigh.
II. Der Rosenkavalier Suite
a. Thielemann/BPO (Digital Concert Hall)
I have heard the piece multiple times and always felt lukewarm about it. The Thielemann doesn't change that. The long lyrical? middle part doesn't do much for me honestly (like most lyrical sections :P )
Neeme Järvi has the best Domestica by a country mile.
Quote from: Maestro267 on April 08, 2024, 12:46:48 PMNeeme Järvi has the best Domestica by a country mile.
Jarvi's Domestica is pretty special - it suits his 'give it both barrels' style and is recorded in vintage Chandos DDD sound. But there are many other fine versions too I think - Szell's Cleveland recording on CBS/Sony is pretty terrifying in terms of how they play but Karajan on EMI - famous trumpet splat and all - is no slouch either let alone Reiner in Chicago. In the company of these titans Zinman in Zurich does sound rather weedy in every regard.