Johannes Brahms (1833-1897)

[Scion7]

overstuffed ideas? BRAHMS?!?!?!

you silly sods!    your father was a hamster, and your mother smelled of elderberries!

[Brian]

The problem is that the Double is often played in the slowest, almost lugubrious manner.

Sadly even truer of the Violin Concerto nowadays!

overstuffed ideas? BRAHMS?!?!?!

you silly sods!    your father was a hamster, and your mother smelled of elderberries!

guilty 

I think the young Brahms of the piano concertos, Symphony No. 1, etc. really felt pressure to prove himself by being Very Serious And Profound, had not quite mastered the gigantic forms he wanted to create, and it does not help my appreciation of those works.

[Madiel]

I think the young Brahms of the piano concertos, Symphony No. 1, etc.

Early-to-mid 40s is young now?

[Scion7]

.... had not quite mastered the gigantic forms he wanted to create, and it does not help my appreciation of those works.

Well, that's why he waited for so long to compose that first symphony - so he would be ready!  And it shows his uttermost command of the art! 

Have a care, lest the gods of music send a Transylvanian eagle to carry you and Florry off to a mountain in the Alps, where a rabbit will be sent to daily devour your liver with nasty, pointed, wicked teeth!

[Brian]

Early-to-mid 40s is young now?

My girlfriend's 43 so I am required to say yes regardless of whether or not I think the answer is yes 

[Madiel]

My girlfriend's 43 so I am required to say yes regardless of whether or not I think the answer is yes 

I feel that this is going to become a progressively more awkward conversation. 

The trick is to go for looking younger. I'll be 50 in January and people are frequently shocked by this information because I apparently look close to 10 years younger.

Also... life expectancy in the 19th century was very different.

[Jo498]

Brahms spent almost 20 years over his 1st symphony, so he was young when he started. And even in his 40s he looked still fairly young pre-beard. (Supposedly the beard was also to appear more mature although it was a fashion at the time, virtually any artist, scholar or scientist wore a beard)
 
The life expectancy at the time was not that bad, once past childhood, esp. for middle/upper class. Brahms' parents (below middle class) died at ca. 76 and 66, so they were rather long lived. With a better lifestyle Brahms would probably have lived another 10 years.

[Florestan]

Well, that's why he waited for so long to compose that first symphony - so he would be ready!  And it shows his uttermost command of the art! 

The 1st Symphony is my least favorite work of all Brahms' output. I rarely make it past the 1st movement which bores the hell out of me. Give me the 1st Serenade over it any time.

In general I prefer Schumann's symphonies to Brahms'.

[Madiel]

Brahms spent almost 20 years over his 1st symphony, so he was young when he started.

I knew someone was going to go there, to which all I have to say is: 2nd piano concerto.

[Madiel]

The 1st Symphony is my least favorite work of all Brahms' output. I rarely make it past the 1st movement which bores the hell out of me. Give me the 1st Serenade over it any time.

In general I prefer Schumann's symphonies to Brahms'.

Try Chailly's performances. Apparently they were very controversial in some quarters. Maybe that's why I like them.

[Florestan]

Try Chailly's performances. Apparently they were very controversial in some quarters. Maybe that's why I like them.

Thanks for the tip, will investigate.

[Herman]

I love the Brahms Double Cto. It's a great work, written as it were in his retirement, like many of his top best works.

Just like the 3d symphony it's got a couple of these moments in which Brahms is just flexing his big powerful music muscle. By this time he knew what worked in in an orchestra hall, and he was not shy of doing it  -  however, he knew it worked best if you made the listeners want it and he never overegged the pudding.
prime example being the crazy fuga chasing its own tail through the entire orchestra just before the recapitulation of the 1st mvt.

[DavidW]

In general I prefer Schumann's symphonies to Brahms'.

Seriously?  Schumann's symphonies are some of his weakest works.

[Florestan]

Seriously?  Schumann's symphonies are some of his weakest works.

I don't subscribe to this received wisdom. To my ears they are fresh, uninhibited and artless --- the exact opposite of Brahms'.

[Herman]

Seriously?  Schumann's symphonies are some of his weakest works.

Seriously? I can listen to nr 2 and nr 4 endlessly.
Beautiful powerful works.

[Maestro267]

Seriously? I can listen to nr 2 and nr 4 endlessly.
Beautiful powerful works.

Me, but Nos. 1 & 3.

[Scion7]

or, one can enjoy all four for each piece's individual majesty!

[Maestro267]

So how bout that Brahms guy huh? Pretty deece at making music, it sounds like.

[Madiel]

Thanks for the tip, will investigate.

Also, while I haven't heard them, I've just been reading about a couple of examples of recordings using smaller orchestras. Thomas Dausgaard on BIS, and Adam Fischer on Naxos.

The orchestras that Brahms had for the premieres of the symphonies were apparently around 50 people, compared to 70-80 for modern orchestras.

[Jo498]

Seriously?  Schumann's symphonies are some of his weakest works.

I don't agree with that but I also think Brahms' symphonies are better than Schumann's and more central pieces to the respective composers oeuvre.
But I'll grant that the "Spring symphony" and the 4th have a freshness and spontaneity that Brahms mostly lacks (but not only in his symphonies, this seems more temperament or general style than age).