It appears as though Vanhal, from whom I haven't heard a conscience note, is thee composer everyone lifts up to the M&H level. His SQs are woefully out-of-print or going for $99.
How can someone so close be so far away?
Quote from: snyprrr on June 25, 2009, 12:08:59 PM
It appears as though Vanhal, from whom I haven't heard a conscience note, is thee composer everyone lifts up to the M&H level.
Oh, I am sure
I do not.
Nor does
Gurn, and he's heard a great deal more of Vanhal than have I.
Vanhal is an excellent composer, he's worth seeking out. Unless you have a bizarre string quartet fetish, you should simply listen to recordings of other chamber and orchestral works that are in print. Simple as that. :)
Just get the recording of his symphonies by the Concerto Koln. I tried his string quartets but they appear to be nothing special
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on July 06, 2009, 07:56:41 AM
. . . I tried his string quartets but they appear to be nothing special.
I guess he didn't really write
Mozart's string quartets, after all . . . .
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 06, 2009, 07:57:51 AM
I guess he didn't really write Mozart's string quartets, after all . . . .
Newman will be pissed! ;D
Well, he wrote over 70 string quartets, it's hard to gouge whether any of them is of good quality. His symphonies are actually very good so who knows.
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on July 06, 2009, 08:15:36 AM
His symphonies are actually very good so who knows.
The one I've heard (which I am guessing must be representative) is simply not in the class of the composer whose work he supposedly ghost-wrote.
I haven't heard Vanhal's String Quartets but I have 4 discs of his music:
Symphonies Vol. 1 - Uwe Grodd/Naxos
Symphonies Vol. 2 - Uwe Grodd/Naxos
Missa Pastoralis in G major/Missa Solemnis in C major - Uwe Grodd/Naxos
Concerto in F major for 2 Bassoons & Orchestra/2 Sinfonias - Jukka-Pekka Saraste/BIS
He is very important composer imho. 0:)
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 06, 2009, 08:39:14 AM
Why?
He was one of the first composers earning his living official appointment or patronage. He was also very popular Viennese composer.
Quote from: 71 dB on July 06, 2009, 09:11:02 AM
He was one of the first composers earning his living official appointment or patronage. He was also very popular Viennese composer.
Thanks for your answer,
Poju.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 06, 2009, 08:28:54 AM
The one I've heard (which I am guessing must be representative) is simply not in the class of the composer whose work he supposedly ghost-wrote.
No, not even close, but they are not too far behind Haydn's own Storm and Stress symphonies. I wasn't trying to suggest Newman was right, btw. I was just trying not to appear too negative since i don't really know much about him, only that he seems to be a bit above the norm in so far as composers of his rank go.
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on July 06, 2009, 09:50:26 AM
No, not even close, but they are not too far behind Haydn's own Storm and Stress symphonies.
I haven't made my way so late in the
Haydn symphonies, but even in the very early symphonies, his scoring is more inventive, and more specific, than in the Vanhal example I've heard.
Quote from: JdPI wasn't trying to suggest Newman was right, btw.
Ho capito.
I was just noticing last night that this thread had no responses! Huh!
Quote from: DavidW on July 06, 2009, 07:33:20 AMUnless you have a bizarre string quartet feti
Oh, you haven't heard?
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on July 06, 2009, 07:56:41 AM
I tried his string quartets but they appear to be nothing special
What was this? Would you like to sell? ;D
Beyond that, though, you all seem to make a good case for Vanhal's minor key work. How do you think he compares with Kraus?
btw- I wouldn't have pegged Vanhal for "Mozart." Half the reason I started checking out "classical" SQs was because of Newman's Challenge that we don't know the rep. But, so far, I can't see Boccherini, Haydn, Pleyel, Kraus, or Dittersdorf being the culprit. The SQs by "The Artist Known as Mozart" are sooo different than anything else at the time. Who else utilizes the dribbling chromatics? Who???
I don't know what "dribbling chromatics" are, but I agree with you that Mozart's SQs are not like the others. They have a dissonant, acerbic character to them not found in other classical era string quartets.
Quote from: snyprrr on July 06, 2009, 10:09:56 AM
The SQs by "The Artist Known as Mozart" are sooo different than anything else at the time.
(I see
David got here first; still . . .)
Quoted for truth.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 06, 2009, 10:13:53 AM
(I see David got here first; still . . .)
Quoted for truth.
Egads you've snipped Mr Snipper! :D
He was dribbling a bit.
Well, here's an example of his symphonies as well as string quartets, respectively:
http://rapidshare.com/files/252738384/Symphony_in_C___Sinfonia_Comista__.rar.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/252725207/String_Quartet_in_A.rar.html
I had to grab the string quartet off some p2p program since i got rid of the recording i had a long time ago. Much better then the one i heard, and somewhat reminiscent of Mozart, in a very superficial way, enough to fool inexperienced listeners i guess.
Well, time to get this thread back on track, esp. since I've just received an excellent disc of his Piano Quintets, described later:
Johann Baptist Vanhal (1739-1813), born in Bohemia and trained early by local muscians; because of his excellent violin playing he was taken to Vienna in the early 1760s and given lessons by Dittersdorf; he eventually was well accepted into Viennese society as a performer, composer, and conductor; as Poju stated in a post, he was certainly one of the early muscians to make a comfortable living without the need of royal patronage. Another 'claim to fame' is that he was often a member of the probably the most famous Quartet of the Era, i.e. often playing w/ Mozart, Haydn, & Dittersdorf - BOY, can you imagine just being there! 8)
In the old forum, Gurn started a Vanhal Thread, which just went for a few pages (I was there along w/ others); not too many recommendations made but a short bio given; for those interested, check out the bios on Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Baptist_Vanhal) and on Naxos (http://www.naxos.com/composerinfo/Johann_Baptist_Vanhal/21127.htm) - despite his obscurity now, he was a well known & respected 'all around' musician in Vienna at the height of its classical glory!
Vanhal was a prolific composer - just a short quote from the Wiki article 'and attributed to him are 100 quartets, at least 73 symphonies, 95 sacred works, and a large number of instrumental and vocal works' - plenty of chamber music! Personally, I now own just a half dozen discs of Vanhal's music: Symphonies on Naxos & Chandos (more releases have been made on Naxos); Oboe Quartets on Helios w/ Sarah Francis; Double Bass Concertos on Hyperion (w/ Dittersdorf; not thrilled w/ this disc); and String Quartets w/ Kubin Quartet on Ceska - HEY, I'm just scratching the surface! :-\
My most recent Vanhal acquisition is shown below, i.e. Piano Quintets, Op. 12 w/ Miklos Spanyi on fortepiano & Authentic Quartet on period instruments; excellent review recently in the last issue of the American Record Guide - on first listen this is an outstanding production; Spanyi is superb on the fortepiano & the recorded sound well done.
If you are interested in music of this period, then this is a composer to explore seriously - :D
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/624682496_boChN-M.jpg)
Can anyone make head or tail of the Bryan numbers assigned to his symphonies? I realise that a thematic numbered catalogue of his works is impossible due to how many are only half-known, or barely explored, but the Bryan numbers do tend to be arcane in the extreme. Some letters prefixing a number are always reproduced upper-case, others always lower (implying that there is a distinction), then the numbers which folllow also don't really make themselves entirely clear as to what they represent. It makes Bach's catalogue seem a model of order...
Quote from: Lethe on August 31, 2009, 05:47:23 AM
Can anyone make head or tail of the Bryan numbers assigned to his symphonies? I realise that a thematic numbered catalogue of his works is impossible due to how many are only half-known, or barely explored, but the Bryan numbers do tend to be arcane in the extreme. Some letters prefixing a number are always reproduced upper-case, others always lower (implying that there is a distinction), then the numbers which folllow also don't really make themselves entirely clear as to what they represent. It makes Bach's catalogue seem a model of order...
The chronology is still in doubt in my mind, Lethe, but the rest of it is pretty straightforward once you know the key. :)
Bryan C2 is the second symphony in C major
Bryan d5 is the 5th symphony in d minor
etc.
I really don't think that chronology is taken into any sort of account, although I have no confirmation of that.
8)
Ah, that is really neat - I couldn't see what was right in front of me :D I should've noticed due to the ones named "Bb" for b-flat...
Unsurprisingly I am listening to the symphonies at the moment. It is startling how Haydnesque many of the melodies are.
Quote from: Lethe on August 31, 2009, 08:01:14 AM
. . . It is startling how Haydnesque many of the melodies are.
That'll be Newman's
next book.
Well, Vanhal TTT! ;D
Just acquired the disc shown below of the composer's Cello Concertos performed by Peter Szabo & Sinfonietta Pannonica; Vanhal was a popular composer, teacher, & performer who spent most of his career in Vienna during the time of Mozart & Haydn - he was a part of the oft famous String Quartet in that city which featured Mozart, Haydn, Dittersdorf, and Vanhal, with the latter playing the cello!
As mentioned in a previous post of mine, would not being there be a wonderful experience! So, these works are of particular interest, i.e. being cello works of Vanhal - short but quite positive review attached from the ARG (Mar-Apr 2011 issue) - quite well done and a nice complement to the other works available from this neglected classical composer - :D
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/VanhalCelloConcs/1219601006_YCSNL-O.jpg) (http://peter-szabo.com/en/reviews/images/peter_szabo03.jpg)
Vanhal's Concerto for Double Bass, I think, is one of the best concertos for the bass currently out there. In terms of structure, it's the typical classical style of composition. First movement-Sonata form, 2nd movement-ABA, third-Rondo form. It may be typical form wise, but when comparing it to the Dittersdorf concerto No. 2, the material, in my opinion, is better constructed in the Vanhal. Although both have some issues with the tuning of the modern double bass, the Vanhal real does translate to the modern instrument well.
But not to be sidetracked into trying to argue who wrote the better concerto, or the better composer, I want to just talk about Vanhal's concerto. I find it interesting there are different versions of the piece, not just different editions. When trying to select which one to play, I first got the one in D Major (Bass Part in C), and after discussing it with my teacher, I decided to get the version in E Major (Bass Part in D). I've been playing the one in E Major ever since. Not because it's the one my teacher told me to play, but the one that I feel is more accurate to Vanhal's intentions.
Comparing the one in D Major with the manuscript, there were differences in both versions. The E Major one, most of the bass part is down an octave to what the manuscript says, and the D Major one has different runs in the solo part, and some strange register jumps. Example, near the beginning of the first movement, there is a run of a G Major scale, 2 octaves in the D Major one. In the E Major version, the same part is just a single octave A Major scale, but when the player reaches the top A, the player goes back down the octave to do the scale again. The latter is found in the manuscript, while I believe with talking to my teacher the former was found in Sperger's (the person I believe Vanhal wrote the piece for) edition, and some editors kept some of Sperger's changes to the piece, which from discussing with my teacher, accounts for some of the differences in editions.
But regardless of which version, I really do believe it's one of the better concertos for the bass :)
Quote from: paulrbass on August 19, 2011, 07:52:57 AM
Vanhal's Concerto for Double Bass, I think, is one of the best concertos for the bass currently out there. In terms of structure, it's the typical classical style of composition. First movement-Sonata form, 2nd movement-ABA, third-Rondo form. It may be typical form wise, but when comparing it to the Dittersdorf concerto No. 2, the material, in my opinion, is better constructed in the Vanhal. Although both have some issues with the tuning of the modern double bass, the Vanhal real does translate to the modern instrument well.
But not to be sidetracked into trying to argue who wrote the better concerto, or the better composer, I want to just talk about Vanhal's concerto. I find it interesting there are different versions of the piece, not just different editions. When trying to select which one to play, I first got the one in D Major (Bass Part in C), and after discussing it with my teacher, I decided to get the version in E Major (Bass Part in D). I've been playing the one in E Major ever since. Not because it's the one my teacher told me to play, but the one that I feel is more accurate to Vanhal's intentions.
Comparing the one in D Major with the manuscript, there were differences in both versions. The E Major one, most of the bass part is down an octave to what the manuscript says, and the D Major one has different runs in the solo part, and some strange register jumps. Example, near the beginning of the first movement, there is a run of a G Major scale, 2 octaves in the D Major one. In the E Major version, the same part is just a single octave A Major scale, but when the player reaches the top A, the player goes back down the octave to do the scale again. The latter is found in the manuscript, while I believe with talking to my teacher the former was found in Sperger's (the person I believe Vanhal wrote the piece for) edition, and some editors kept some of Sperger's changes to the piece, which from discussing with my teacher, accounts for some of the differences in editions.
But regardless of which version, I really do believe it's one of the better concertos for the bass :)
Thank you for your interesting thoughts!
8)
Here's a question - how do you pronounce his name? Does the hal sound like haul (like I haul garbage) or hal (as in 2001 name)?
Quote from: mc ukrneal on January 15, 2013, 12:21:43 PM
Here's a question - how do you pronounce his name? Does the hal sound like haul (like I haul garbage) or hal (as in 2001 name)?
Vaňhal - with
hal as in 2001 and
ň as in New York
Quote from: Fafner on January 15, 2013, 12:41:15 PM
... and as in New York
... as pronounced in Brooklyn, e.g.?
Quote from: karlhenning on January 15, 2013, 12:49:48 PM
... as pronounced in Brooklyn, e.g.?
Heh. :)
German pronunciation here (http://www.forvo.com/word/johann_baptist_vanhal/).
Authentic Czech pronunciation here at 9:24 (http://www.ceskatelevize.cz/ivysilani/1093836883-na-plovarne/212522160100021-na-plovarne-s-christopherem-hogwoodem/titulky/#t=9m22s)
8)
Quote from: Fafner on January 15, 2013, 01:01:25 PM
Heh. :)
German pronunciation here (http://www.forvo.com/word/johann_baptist_vanhal/).
Authentic Czech pronunciation here at 9:24 (http://www.ceskatelevize.cz/ivysilani/1093836883-na-plovarne/212522160100021-na-plovarne-s-christopherem-hogwoodem/titulky/#t=9m22s)
8)
Damn, those fellows were humming right along! I came away with "WINE-hall" though... :-\
8)
Quote from: Fafner on January 15, 2013, 01:01:25 PM
Heh. :)
German pronunciation here (http://www.forvo.com/word/johann_baptist_vanhal/).
Authentic Czech pronunciation here at 9:24 (http://www.ceskatelevize.cz/ivysilani/1093836883-na-plovarne/212522160100021-na-plovarne-s-christopherem-hogwoodem/titulky/#t=9m22s)
8)
Thanks. I had not considered van vs von either, which is what the czech sounds a bit more like (the von sound I mean).
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on January 15, 2013, 01:28:22 PM
Damn, those fellows were humming right along! I came away with "WINE-hall" though... :-\
The Czech pronunciation was a bit too subtle for me to attempt to reproduce. I'll have to make do with von-haul.
Quote from: Daverz on January 15, 2013, 04:14:46 PM
The Czech pronunciation was a bit too subtle for me to attempt to reproduce. I'll have to make do with von-haul.
Boy guys - a whole page of pronunciation lessons - ;) ;D
NOW, would his name ever come up in a cocktail party conversation, i.e. except for one w/ GMG members? ; :D
I usually thought that for us USA members that 'Van - Hal' (
van like in a a driving van &
hal like in the film 2001) would be fine w/ us - now
Von-Haul would be OK w/ me - in respect for our wonderful European members, I'm sure the pronunciation is different, but the importance is to enjoy his music, SO any new recommendations? ;) ;D
Quote from: SonicMan46 on January 15, 2013, 05:11:07 PM
Boy guys - a whole page of pronunciation lessons - ;) ;D
NOW, would his name ever come up in a cocktail party conversation, i.e. except for one w/ GMG members? ; :D
I usually thought that for us USA members that 'Van - Hal' (van like in a a driving van & hal like in the film 2001) would be fine w/ us - now Von-Haul would be OK w/ me - in respect for our wonderful European members, I'm sure the pronunciation is different, but the importance is to enjoy his music, SO any new recommendations? ;) ;D
Well, I just picked up volume one of the Naxos symphony series. I liked the Chandos and Das Alte Werk disc so much, I thought I would try the Naxos series. If I like it, I figure I have three more discs to explore.
Having fun, y'all?
Quote from: Opus106 on January 15, 2013, 10:34:48 PM
Having fun, y'all?
Nice!
Next: Funyums With Vañhal....
Well, due to reactivation of this thread and listening to the 3 discs of his symphonies in my collection, I decided to add the remaining 3 from the Naxos series; so now I own 6 discs of the Symphonies on JB Vanhal (shown @ the bottom for those who may be interested in exploring these works for the first time or expanding an existing collection).
BUT, how much overlap do I now have in this collection of nearly 2 dozen works? Vanhal wrote over 70 known symphonies (and probably many more not known, published, or yet found?); these works have been categorized by Dr. Paul Bryan (hence the B lettering/numbers) in his PhD musicology dissertation at the University of Michigan in 1956; he also published the book Johann Wanhal, Viennese Symphonist: His Life and His Musical Environment (Thematic Catalogues) in 1997, which is listed for $95 on Amazon - might look for a copy locally.
So, I quickly put together a spreadsheet on Google Drive and took a screen shot (shown immediately below) - the symphonies w/ their Bryan numbers are alphabetized in the first column; the 6 CDs that I own in the following columns w/ an asterisk indicating the presence of a work on a given disc - surprisingly, just 2 duplications. Hope this might be of use other 'Vanhallites'! Dave :)
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-9jQXDwj/0/O/VanhalBryanSymph.jpg)
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-kkSFCDj/0/S/Vanhal_SymphV1Naxos-S.jpg) (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-bK6wWdq/0/S/VanhalSymphV2-S.jpg) (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-gLr7Fvh/0/S/VanhalSymphV3Mallon-S.jpg)
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-Tnf3t5V/0/S/VanhalSymphV4-S.jpg) (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-hRFWsZf/0/S/Vanhal_Bambert-S.jpg) (http://www.sainsburysentertainment.co.uk/media/ProductImage/largeImage/ProductImage-320600.jpg)
That's awesome Dave, thanks for doing that, I'm going to check my Vanhal collection later and see what I have and perhaps have a listen, it's been awhile.
Quote from: Leo K. on January 24, 2013, 02:00:03 PM
That's awesome Dave, thanks for doing that, I'm going to check my Vanhal collection later and see what I have and perhaps have a listen, it's been awhile.
Thanks
Leo - these are some wonderful compositions & excellent performances; basically, just a few duplicated, SO if you like this composer, then worth trying a few of these CDs - Dave :)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on January 24, 2013, 11:40:09 AM
Well, due to reactivation of this thread and listening to the 3 discs of his symphonies in my collection, I decided to add the remaining 3 from the Naxos series; so now I own 6 discs of the Symphonies on JB Vanhal (shown @ the bottom for those who may be interested in exploring these works for the first time or expanding an existing collection).
BUT, how much overlap do I now have in this collection of nearly 2 dozen works? Vanhal wrote over 70 known symphonies (and probably many more not known, published, or yet found?); these works have been categorized by Dr. Paul Bryan (hence the B lettering/numbers) in his PhD musicology dissertation at the University of Michigan in 1956; he also published the book Johann Wanhal, Viennese Symphonist: His Life and His Musical Environment (Thematic Catalogues) in 1997, which is listed for $95 on Amazon - might look for a copy locally.
So, I quickly put together a spreadsheet on Google Drive and took a screen shot (shown immediately below) - the symphonies w/ their Bryan numbers are alphabetized in the first column; the 6 CDs that I own in the following columns w/ an asterisk indicating the presence of a work on a given disc - surprisingly, just 2 duplications. Hope this might be of use other 'Vanhallites'! Dave :)
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-9jQXDwj/0/O/VanhalBryanSymph.jpg)
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-kkSFCDj/0/S/Vanhal_SymphV1Naxos-S.jpg) (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-bK6wWdq/0/S/VanhalSymphV2-S.jpg) (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-gLr7Fvh/0/S/VanhalSymphV3Mallon-S.jpg)
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-Tnf3t5V/0/S/VanhalSymphV4-S.jpg) (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-hRFWsZf/0/S/Vanhal_Bambert-S.jpg) (http://www.sainsburysentertainment.co.uk/media/ProductImage/largeImage/ProductImage-320600.jpg)
Great work! I had sort of figured out that there wasn't much overlap and so went ahead with the Naxos as well, but it is nice to see in black and white! He never fails to lighten my mood.
Quote from: mc ukrneal on January 24, 2013, 06:57:14 PM
Great work! I had sort of figured out that there wasn't much overlap and so went ahead with the Naxos as well, but it is nice to see in black and white! He never fails to lighten my mood.
Hi
Neal - just left a post in the 'Listening Thread' for you to check here and you already did! :D What amazes me is that w/ 6 CDs of these symphonies recorded, there is almost NO overlap - hmmm - me thinks that these companies must track what is recorded and then try to pick other works - just wondering? Dave :)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on January 24, 2013, 07:14:12 PM
Hi Neal - just left a post in the 'Listening Thread' for you to check here and you already did! :D What amazes me is that w/ 6 CDs of these symphonies recorded, there is almost NO overlap - hmmm - me thinks that these companies must track what is recorded and then try to pick other works - just wondering? Dave :)
Maybe Naxos did when they picked which symphonies to record (perhaps only doubling a few they thought more popular)? In any case, it is hard to make sense of what is left. The Orfeo disc looks like 100% overlap, but I cannot tell with the the others. But I do hope someone will continue to record the remaining pieces, though I fear it may be some time before anyone does.
There are a couple of versions of Vanhal's Concerto for Two Bassoons and orchestra on YouTube. I've been listening to one of them, it's a wonderful work, and quite substantial (25 mins).
I couldn't help smiling at certain passages, however, as I remembered the Ryme of the Ancient Mariner
The wedding guest then beat his breast,
For he heard the loud bassoon.
Vanhal TTT! after a 6 year hiatus - back then I posted the 6 'Symphony' discs owned; now evaluating my collection (probably not since then!) - below are the remaining discs, so up to 14 - believe my last purchase according to Amazon records was the 'Late String Quartets' in 2013 - wow how time flies!
Looking on Amazon and PrestoMusic today, there seems to be some other considerations - there are a few 'period instrument' performances but difficult to find reviews - SO, curious if others have gotten into Vanhal - what's new and worth buying? Thanks for any comments. Dave :)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51dZH4bunpL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/611yWe2gCVL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51A3x0pbH7L.jpg) (http://) (https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzk0NDM4OC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1NjUwMDczNDV9)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61EDzAEZXRL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/21iJ4JwgRfL.jpg) (http://) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81GroQruG5L._SL1425_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51cVGgXYQ4L.jpg)
Thanks for rekindling this thread, Dave. :)
Indeed, the time flies... and there is too little of it...
I never got into Vanhal. But this afternoon I'll try to find this interesting looking recording on Spotify:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61EDzAEZXRL.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on June 06, 2020, 08:12:17 PM
Vanhal TTT! after a 6 year hiatus - back then I posted the 6 'Symphony' discs owned; now evaluating my collection (probably not since then!) - below are the remaining discs, so up to 14 - believe my last purchase according to Amazon records was the 'Late String Quartets' in 2013 - wow how time flies!
Looking on Amazon and PrestoMusic today, there seems to be some other considerations - there are a few 'period instrument' performances but difficult to find reviews - SO, curious if others have gotten into Vanhal - what's new and worth buying? Thanks for any comments. Dave :)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51dZH4bunpL.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51A3x0pbH7L.jpg)
Of the 8 CDs you posted I have these two. I also have four other Naxos discs: Symphonies volumes 1 & 2, Missa Pastoralis/Solemnis and Three Violin Concertos. My first Vanhal disc was the BIS disc of Sinfonias and Double Bassoon Concerto. It's good.
Vanhal is a fine composers, but I never got into him
obsessively. I prefer Dittersdorf especially with sinfonias. The Hyperion Vanhal/Dittersdorf dics has bassy muddy sound if I remember correctly. The Naxos disc of Flute Quartets is very nice imo and I recommend it.
Quote from: Que on June 07, 2020, 01:04:06 AM
Thanks for rekindling this thread, Dave. :)
Indeed, the time flies... and there is too little of it...
I never got into Vanhal. But this afternoon I'll try to find this interesting looking recording on Spotify:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61EDzAEZXRL.jpg)
Que - listened to the above this morning - enjoyable but not quite 'Piano Quintets' w/ all instruments participating - see the MusicWeb Review (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2010/Jan10/Vanhal_Quintets_HCD32588.htm) for more details - Spanyi performs on a fortepiano replica built by Chris Maene in 2003 after Anton Walter. Dave :)
Quote from: 71 dB on June 07, 2020, 03:11:18 AM
Of the 8 CDs you posted I have these two. I also have four other Naxos discs: Symphonies volumes 1 & 2, Missa Pastoralis/Solemnis and Three Violin Concertos. My first Vanhal disc was the BIS disc of Sinfonias and Double Bassoon Concerto. It's good.
Vanhal is a fine composers, but I never got into him obsessively. I prefer Dittersdorf especially with sinfonias. The Hyperion Vanhal/Dittersdorf dics has bassy muddy sound if I remember correctly. The Naxos disc of Flute Quartets is very nice imo and I recommend it.
Hi
Poju - over the years, I've grown fonder of the 'Double Bass Concertos' recording, and probably enjoy Dittersdorf's works more - agree that the sound seemed softer and the bassist was in the background, which improved by turning up the volume - attached are some good to excellent reviews; apparently, Chi-Chi Nwanoku is a well respected bassist in England - I do like the combination of the two composers and cannot find another similar one to compare? Dave :)
Well, I was interested in adding a 'few' discs to my Vanhal collection and have been on Spotify which has quite a lot of recordings to offer - happy w/ my Symphonies & String Quartets, so wanted to add 'something' different - purchased the first three below from PrestoMusic and had to do a MP3 DL on the last one - these all sounded excellent to me by streaming. Dave :)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51fEG6WZRiL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71enkKLhVaL._SL1045_.jpg) (https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODM2MjYyMi4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1MDQwMDMzMzh9) (https://qtvclassics.com/WebRoot/Store8/Shops/16660de9-62f6-4aab-84ae-76e9f4929d78/553C/CA15/7B74/0866/219E/0A48/3521/1F6F/PARA_TIENDA_VANHAL_PORTADA_QTV_ml.png)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on June 07, 2020, 10:07:12 AM
Hi Poju - over the years, I've grown fonder of the 'Double Bass Concertos' recording, and probably enjoy Dittersdorf's works more - agree that the sound seemed softer and the bassist was in the background, which improved by turning up the volume - attached are some good to excellent reviews; apparently, Chi-Chi Nwanoku is a well respected bassist in England - I do like the combination of the two composers and cannot find another similar one to compare? Dave :)
Well Dave I try to revisit that 'Double Bass Concertos' dics in the near future... ;)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on June 07, 2020, 10:17:34 AM
Well, I was interested in adding a 'few' discs to my Vanhal collection and have been on Spotify which has quite a lot of recordings to offer - happy w/ my Symphonies & String Quartets, so wanted to add 'something' different - purchased the first three below from PrestoMusic and had to do a MP3 DL on the last one - these all sounded excellent to me by streaming. Dave :)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51fEG6WZRiL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71enkKLhVaL._SL1045_.jpg) (https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODM2MjYyMi4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1MDQwMDMzMzh9)
The three 'new' CDs above arrived today from 'across the pond' - all enjoyable and add other aspects of Vanhal's compositions to my collection - reviews are attached for those interested. Dave :)
I see Naxos are releasing a fifth disk of Vanhal symphonies in February. :)
Vanhal Symphonies spreadsheet updated w/ addition of Naxos V. 5 - nearly 10 years ago in this thread, I posted a spreadsheet w/ the 6 discs that I owned of Vanhal symphonies using the Bryan catalog - post is quoted below w/ these alterations: 1) Spreadsheet has been updated w/ the newest Naxos volume (no overlaps occurred) and 2) Cover image of V. 5 has been added - there are now 25 works listed (only 2 overlaps) - as stated below there are likely 70-100+ symphonies composed, so plenty is missing. Dave :)
P.S. I just checked on Amazon and other recordings are available but there is majority overlap in most of these offerings; so, these 7 CDs shown below offer pretty much what is available.
Quote from: SonicMan46 on January 24, 2013, 11:40:09 AM
....................
BUT, how much overlap do I now have in this collection of nearly 2 dozen works? Vanhal wrote over 70 known symphonies (and probably many more not known, published, or yet found?); these works have been categorized by Dr. Paul Bryan (hence the B lettering/numbers) in his PhD musicology dissertation at the University of Michigan in 1956; he also published the book Johann Wanhal, Viennese Symphonist: His Life and His Musical Environment (Thematic Catalogues) in 1997, which is listed for $95 on Amazon - might look for a copy locally.
So, I quickly put together a spreadsheet on Google Drive and took a screen shot (shown immediately below) - the symphonies w/ their Bryan numbers are alphabetized in the first column; the 6 CDs that I own in the following columns w/ an asterisk indicating the presence of a work on a given disc - surprisingly, just 2 duplications. Hope this might be of use other 'Vanhallites'! Dave :)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-FhwGbtC/0/881f3e39/O/VanhalSymphonies2.png)
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-kkSFCDj/0/S/Vanhal_SymphV1Naxos-S.jpg) (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-bK6wWdq/0/S/VanhalSymphV2-S.jpg) (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-gLr7Fvh/0/S/VanhalSymphV3Mallon-S.jpg) (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-Tnf3t5V/0/S/VanhalSymphV4-S.jpg)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71TUA66zgeL._SL1200_.jpg) (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-hRFWsZf/0/S/Vanhal_Bambert-S.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61AIxB8zmEL._UX250_FMwebp_QL85_.jpg)
Mine looks similar (although it has some mistakes):
(https://i.ibb.co/6B2rMBk/afbeelding-2022-07-17-130307130.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
Note there is an A major symphony that I didn't know the Bryan number of. It's on this disc:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51zxt8-pz4L.jpg)
Turns out it's his Symphony in A major, Op. 16/2, Bryan A2 (just found it on Amazon track listing). So one more symphony to add!
Quote from: Spenserian on July 17, 2022, 03:08:48 AM
Mine looks similar (although it has some mistakes):
(https://i.ibb.co/6B2rMBk/afbeelding-2022-07-17-130307130.png) (https://imgbb.com/) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51zxt8-pz4L.jpg)
Note there is an A major symphony that I didn't know the Bryan number of. It's on this disc:
Turns out it's his Symphony in A major, Op. 16/2, Bryan A2 (just found it on Amazon track listing). So one more symphony to add!
Thanks
Spenserian for the addition - I have the Naxos Vol. 5 coming from JPC 'across the pond', so with 7 discs I should be happy - :laugh: Dave
There's also an Orfeo disc, Philharmonisches Kammerorchester München, Michael Helmrath, but its content is duplicated in those others you listed.