GMG Classical Music Forum

With the triumphant [sic] conclusion of the Bach Sonatas & Partitas Comparison, what lies next for GMG's least time-honoured tradition? An ignominious demise, unmourned and unloved? A zombie existence, dead on arrival but somehow still shambling forward, devouring the brains of GMG members? Or perhaps a glorious rebirth with trumpets sounding and whatnot? Share your views.

I organized a number of them back in the day (Ravel Gaspard and a series of "Lightning Rounds" focusing on shorter pieces like a Chopin etude). I'm simply running low on pieces I could organize a game for, using my collection. But I dearly love the blind listening games! And probably will someday do another Lightning Round or two - say, Chopin Nocturne Op. 48 No. 1, or maybe a short orchestral work like Moldau or an overture.

I got the first round pieces from the S&P but they are "too heavy" for me and I did not have enough leisure. Although I really enjoyed the Schubert this took a lot of time and I guess I'd only be able to drag myself to do it if it is a piece that is short and interests me quite a bit.
So, yes, Chopin could be good. Or maybe Beethoven's op.135, I seem to recall amw suggest it some time after the Schubert quintet was finished.

IMO blind listening is an interesting excercise, from which one can learn
a lot. The most obvious thing is, that you listen in another way to interpretations, when you are not biased by the knowledge of the players identity. And then some recordings may turn out to be not quite in the way you recalled. It ought to be possible to find music suitable for the purpose, and which may have a general interest to the GMG'ers.

I just don't wanna do any more of them myself is something of a misstatement, but I think they're a great idea, I enjoy them from the sidelines, but I do not often have the freedom to be fair to participation in them with time/attention.

I guess for the record, I'd feel qualified to organise a blind comparison on any of the following topics (limiting to pieces that I think would fit the format):

Schumann - Kreisleriana, Carnaval, Davidsbündlertänze, Fantasiestücke, Fantasy in C, etc
Ravel - Piano Trio, Miroirs
Fauré - Piano Trio, Cello Sonata No. 2
Beethoven - any string quartet, piano sonata, violin or cello sonata, piano trio, symphony, or piano concerto within reason (e.g. no Hammerklavier, no Emperor, or anything else that could require 15+ minute excerpts)
Chopin - Sonata No. 3, or "lightning rounds" on any of the Ballades or Scherzi or Nocturnes or the Polonaise-Fantaisie or the Barcarolle
Debussy - Etudes, Violin or Cello Sonatas
Janáček - String Quartet No. 1
Bartók - a string quartet or piano concerto
Prokofiev - any of the "War Sonatas", Violin Concerto 1 or 2
Brahms - any violin sonata, the Horn Trio, the Clarinet Trio, the Op. 118 piano cycle
Schoenberg - Erste Kammersymphonie
Stravinsky - The Rite of Spring
Mendelssohn - String Quartet in a Op. 13
Borodin - String Quartet No. 2

I'd make time for the Brahms cl trio.

I'd be down for, at least,

Quote from: amw on February 02, 2017, 05:49:42 AM
Schumann - Kreisleriana, Fantasiestücke, Fantasy in C
Ravel - Piano Miroirs
Fauré - Piano Trio, Cello Sonata No. 2
Beethoven - any string quartet, piano sonata, violin or cello sonata, piano trio, symphony, or piano concerto within reason (e.g. no Hammerklavier, no Emperor, or anything else that could require 15+ minute excerpts)
Chopin - Sonata No. 3, or "lightning rounds" on any of the Ballades or Scherzi or Nocturnes or the Barcarolle
Janáček - String Quartet No. 1
Borodin - String Quartet No. 2

And I for these:

Beethoven - any string quartet, piano sonata, violin or cello sonata, piano trio, symphony, or piano concerto within reason (e.g. no Hammerklavier, no Emperor, or anything else that could require 15+ minute excerpts)
Chopin - Sonata No. 3, or "lightning rounds" on any of the Ballades or Scherzi or Nocturnes or the Polonaise-Fantaisie or the Barcarolle
Bartók - piano concerto
Brahms -  the Op. 118 piano cycle
Stravinsky - The Rite of Spring

I generally don't have enough time, and perhaps too short of an attention span, to participate, but the outcomes are nice to see.  I may be able to be of some assistance with respect to recordings of LvB or Mozart piano sonatas if anyone sets up a comparison for any of those.

I think I'd be up for these ones:

Schumann - Kreisleriana, Carnaval, Davidsbündlertänze, Fantasiestücke, Fantasy in C, etc
Beethoven - any string quartet, piano sonata
Chopin - Sonata No. 3, or "lightning rounds" on any of the Ballades or Scherzi or Nocturnes or the Polonaise-Fantaisie or the Barcarolle
Debussy - Violin or Cello Sonatas
Janáček - String Quartet No. 1
Bartók - a string quartet [No. 3 perhaps?] or piano concerto [Especially No. 1!]
Brahms - the Clarinet Trio, the Op. 118 piano cycle
Schoenberg - Erste Kammersymphonie [I'll be doing a write-up on the work in a few weeks, so it'll be fresh in my mind]
Stravinsky - The Rite of Spring

I participated in, and enjoyed, the blind comparisons of symphonic works (Bruckner 6, Mahler 1, Brahms 2, Zarathustra). I'm less interested, and feel less qualified, in chamber and solo works. So, I'd participate in a comparison of these works from amw's list:

Quote from: amw on February 02, 2017, 05:49:42 AM
Prokofiev - Violin Concerto 1 or 2
Schoenberg - Erste Kammersymphonie
Stravinsky - The Rite of Spring

Sarge

I said I dont care.  These blind comparisons take forever to conclude, and I loose interest after a couple of weeks.  Furthermore, if it takes six months or more to come to some sort of conclusion, the outcome is meaningless and of no interest to me.

I'm in! Wait, there is no response for that! I love them - find them very helpful at refocusing on a piece and enjoy hearing all the different takes.

I'd do pretty much any of them, except for the Rite of Spring. Can't stand the piece. But everything else is pretty much fair game.

Quote from: (: premont :) on February 02, 2017, 05:44:09 AM
IMO blind listening is an interesting excercise, from which one can learn
a lot. The most obvious thing is, that you listen in another way to interpretations, when you are not biased by the knowledge of the players identity. And then some recordings may turn out to be not quite in the way you recalled. It ought to be possible to find music suitable for the purpose, and which may have a general interest to the GMG'ers.

Yes. Participating in the process has been much more valuable than seeing the results.

I was part of the problem in the Bach Violin S&P one but I think I'm up for a new one. I'd probably prefer shorter excerpts and round 2 of S&P showed that we need a deadline.

Quote from: Mahlerian on February 02, 2017, 12:43:17 PM
I think I'd be up for these ones:

Schumann - Kreisleriana, Carnaval, Davidsbündlertänze, Fantasiestücke, Fantasy in C, etc
Beethoven - any string quartet, piano sonata
Chopin - Sonata No. 3, or "lightning rounds" on any of the Ballades or Scherzi or Nocturnes or the Polonaise-Fantaisie or the Barcarolle
Debussy - Violin or Cello Sonatas
Janáček - String Quartet No. 1
Bartók - a string quartet [No. 3 perhaps?] or piano concerto [Especially No. 1!]
Brahms - the Clarinet Trio, the Op. 118 piano cycle
Schoenberg - Erste Kammersymphonie [I'll be doing a write-up on the work in a few weeks, so it'll be fresh in my mind]
Stravinsky - The Rite of Spring

The ones in heavy type are of greater interest, but I will help with anything! 

For the Beethoven idea, how about the Opus 111 for a piano sonata?

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on February 02, 2017, 05:45:53 AM
I just don't wanna do any more of them myself is something of a misstatement, but I think they're a great idea, I enjoy them from the sidelines, but I do not often have the freedom to be fair to participation in them with time/attention.

My problem as well. Beyond that, I found myself loathe to say some recordings were superior to others.  Which resulted for instance in my verdict for the final round of the Bach as all of them being in their different ways equally good.  I hope that did not screw up the scoring too much!

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on February 02, 2017, 12:56:29 PM
I participated in, and enjoyed, the blind comparisons of symphonic works (Bruckner 6, Mahler 1, Brahms 2, Zarathustra). I'm less interested, and feel less qualified, in chamber and solo works.

FYI I am pretty much the opposite. So if anyone wants to organise a blind comparison of a symphonic work, please do, don't mind me and my pro-chamber bias.

I would also be very interested in symphonic works as well.......I haven't ever participated in a blind comparison but I think it might be nice to try one.

Quote from: jessop on February 02, 2017, 11:24:58 PM
......I haven't ever participated in a blind comparison but I think it might be nice to try one.

+1, for a short (10-15min max) piece.

It would be really cool to do a Sibelius tone poem if we're in that time frame then

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on February 02, 2017, 05:55:33 PM
My problem as well. Beyond that, I found myself loathe to say some recordings were superior to others.  Which resulted for instance in my verdict for the final round of the Bach as all of them being in their different ways equally good.  I hope that did not screw up the scoring too much!

For the record I didn't see that as a problem at all.  I simply scored each of the five versions as "equal 2nd" (translating to 80%) which seemed a reasonable interpretation.  Although it didn't help differentiate them, merely having listened and reported back did help increase the 'confidence' of their overall ratings.

It's good to see there is still a fair amount of interest in these projects - though it appears to be divided such that no single piece of music can catch everyone's interest.  I think one way forward (maybe not the only way) surely is Brian's format - a limited number of runners and riders, and shortish music samples, and all done and dusted inside a month.  And it is very helpful if the links to the 'blind' samples are there upfront in the thread (that was very obvious from the recent S&P comparison - each time I (temporarily) put the links up front, it immediately stimulated responses) but of course for reasons related to illegal distribution etc it is rather difficult to actually do that, I certainly see that as a major problem from an organising point of view.

I'd love to participate in future lightning rounds, but, like others have said, I don't have the time/attention span for longer works.

It seems as if most people are agreeing to shorter works then?

Maybe a left field choice, but I think it could also work with shorter excerpts: the Mystery Sonatas?

Quote from: amw on February 06, 2017, 06:11:15 AM
Maybe a left field choice, but I think it could also work with shorter excerpts: the Mystery Sonatas?

How many recordings of them exist?

I'm aware of 33 offhand. There may be more.

Quote from: amw on February 06, 2017, 01:42:38 PM
I'm aware of 33 offhand. There may be more.

Well that's good news! I'd be interested in that.

Perhaps also something from the 20th century would be fun, what do you think?

Yes, definitely. The Schoenberg Kammersymphonie is just barely 20th century but that one or Bartók's 3rd quartet are both things I'm strongly considering.

Also, obviously, anyone else who has an idea for a 20th century work, or an orchestra piece or whatever, is welcome to run their own >_> I can be contacted to supply recordings if desired.

I started a Bartok Strings, Percussion & Celesta comparison a while back - but it was completely stillborn, not a single response to the 1st round of music samples.  I also have a choice of possible Shostakovich mini- or midi- projects in the back of my mind - a Prelude & Fugue, the Piano Quintet, Symphony 1.
Meanwhile I'm enjoying a rest lurking on the Chopin thread - very well-presented I must say, well done amw!

Actually I am just gonna say that I am more than willing to host a blind comparison on the condition that we will be comparing recordings of the overture to Mozart's Le Nozze di Figaro.

Quote from: jessop on February 07, 2017, 01:36:21 PM
Actually I am just gonna say that I am more than willing to host a blind comparison on the condition that we will be comparing recordings of the overture to Mozart's Le Nozze di Figaro.

That will happen whenever you want, on the condition that you start it.  8)

I've long been considering an Alexander Nevsky blind listening. The problem is, a) if short, what to listen to. I would pick Battle of the Ice about 1.30-2.00 minutes in. That section is always different. But is it representative? Still, my favorite part and where I am most interested to discuss. I've also considered the solo voice section, but that will be too dependent on the soloist. And b) if longer, well, not sure there is interest.

I have also been considering a different format, like March Madness. So it would be 8 or 16 or 32, for example, where each is a battle royale between two versions. But I think that would only work well for shorter pieces.

I've changed my mind. After amw's Chopin Blind Comparison I think I will set up a blind comparison of the fourth movement of Mozart's Symphony no. 35 if anyone is interested. :)

I might be up for shorter and less formal works like overtures and tone poems.

Quote from: Daverz on February 08, 2017, 03:57:43 PM
I might be up for shorter and less formal works like overtures and tone poems.

The last mvt of Mozart's Haffner symphony is usually around 4 minutes........so I guess at least you'd be up for it? I don't know how many people here like Mozart though!

Sad I wasn't around for the Bartok blind comparison, I would have been up for that piece for sure!

I think 10 samples is too many...I feel like 6-8 is a good maximum - though it of course depends how long each is.

If around ~5 min each, that still takes a while to listen to and digest each. That's probably the maximum length that would work well.

I will always be more attracted to orchestral works personally, but am open to checking out chamber comparisons too! Just depends on the composer/work (or how much I happen to actually visit the forum at the time.)

Glad to see the tradition is still being continued, nice way to learn about other recordings, I have great memories of our old comparisons of Mahler, Tchaikovsky, Strauss tone poems, etc.:)

I do think a Le Sacre comparison would be super fun, or perhaps another Stravinsky work...I might have enough recordings, or could at least contribute!

Ives' The Unanswered Question would be a cool one to do since it's only around 6-7 minutes in duration.

I do have most of the materials ready for a Schoenberg Kammersymphonie comparison whenever Sibelius 7 is done (also might participate in that at some point) it's just, a) my computer's had to take an emergency trip to the shop today and might not be back for more than a week and b) I have to still figure out which excerpt I want to use. Expect it sometime though.

The Sibelius won't go on past next week, and if the subject matter is reasonably different (orchestral vs solo piano vs baroque vs ...) there's no clash anyway, why not just go ahead whenever you're ready you get your computer back.

I'm up for possibly hosting another one. I was thinking of Haydn's 45th, Farewell Symphony. I think I currently have 15 recordings of the work, and what I believe would be interesting is to see how the mix of modern and period instruments fare in the comparisons.

Would anyone be interested in a comparison of recordings of Schoenberg's Violin Concerto?  I have several and could get one or two more to facilitate comparison, but I have to know that there's some level of interest before I jump in.

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on March 15, 2017, 09:14:47 AM
I'm up for possibly hosting another one. I was thinking of Haydn's 45th, Farewell Symphony. I think I currently have 15 recordings of the work, and what I believe would be interesting is to see how the mix of modern and period instruments fare in the comparisons.

oooh!

Quote from: Mahlerian on March 30, 2017, 04:33:30 PM
Would anyone be interested in a comparison of recordings of Schoenberg's Violin Concerto?  I have several and could get one or two more to facilitate comparison, but I have to know that there's some level of interest before I jump in.

But are there enough recordings to warrant a blind comparison?

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 31, 2017, 08:39:02 AM
But are there enough recordings to warrant a blind comparison?

I have four on hand, and I could easily get a few others.