Charles Ives

[San Antone]

More recently I have come to really love the Concord Sonata and it's fast approaching one of my favorite American solo keyboard works if not my number one. A big reason for this is there are only a couple of instances of Ives quoting American music, instead the sonata is always forward looking.

I've been reading this book, and I can heartily recommend it for those that want more insight into his second sonata.

Looks to be a fascinating read; and a book I am sure to purchase, soon.  Thanks.  Kyle Gann is a good writer; I've got his book on Cage.

[brewski]

Another big thumbs-up for the Concord, and Gann's book looks excellent, too. I've been lucky to hear the sonata a few times live, with Marc-André Hamelin and Pierre-Laurent Aimard probably vying for top honors.

-Bruce

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Another big thumbs-up for the Concord, and Gann's book looks excellent, too. I've been lucky to hear the sonata a few times live, with Marc-André Hamelin and Pierre-Laurent Aimard probably vying for top honors.

-Bruce

I do remember hearing it and enjoying it (over the radio); will have to dig around to see whether or not I have a recording of it.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Looks to be a fascinating read; and a book I am sure to purchase, soon.  Thanks.  Kyle Gann is a good writer; I've got his book on Cage.

Another big thumbs-up for the Concord, and Gann's book looks excellent, too. I've been lucky to hear the sonata a few times live, with Marc-André Hamelin and Pierre-Laurent Aimard probably vying for top honors.

-Bruce

Upon a quick googling:  so it was never finished by the composer?

[brewski]

Upon a quick googling:  so it was never finished by the composer?

Complicated! Here is a Gramophone article that may help.

-Bruce

[Atriod]

Another big thumbs-up for the Concord, and Gann's book looks excellent, too. I've been lucky to hear the sonata a few times live, with Marc-André Hamelin and Pierre-Laurent Aimard probably vying for top honors.

-Bruce

For those that have heard Marc-André Hamelin's old and new recording how do the two compare aside from his omission of flute and/or viola between the two recordings? I really like the Hyperion performance, one of my favorite CDs from him.

[Atriod]

I revisited this SACD which I played a couple of times when it came out then not much afterward. I liked it a lot more this time around, the first piano sonata is not that dissimilar to the Concord Sonata (it does wander a bit in places compared to the Concord, lacks that special something of the Concord Sonata that makes it a masterpiece). In Piano Sonata 1 there isn't any hint of romantic era leanings, no reminiscence of the past, etc. I see that Ives does quote some old American music but aside from the very obvious times he does it (kept to a minimum, mostly the fourth movement) I could not hear this since I was 1) unfamiliar with that music and 2) the way Ives does it it still sounds squarely modern/20th century and not kitschy. 

I have a newfound appreciation for this sonata that will now be in my heavy rotation pile of albums.

[Atriod]

Another big thumbs-up for the Concord, and Gann's book looks excellent, too. I've been lucky to hear the sonata a few times live, with Marc-André Hamelin and Pierre-Laurent Aimard probably vying for top honors.

-Bruce

I saw Hamelin play it and I certainly will have to add it to my works I have to see live more than a couple of times. Every time I have seen him what stands out is how much he resembles his CD performances, there are no histrionics or excuses for why the pianist is not so good on record but great live. In Gaspard his dynamic control was pin point, bordering on it sounding like he was underplaying dynamic markings, but like Yeol Eum Son who I have also thought that of he was not. The similarities between the two are interesting. (For me) the major reason I can think of to see to see him live is for the live sound quality and to support the musician/organizers/venue, but my stereo gets me 90% of the way there. Not meant as an insult but a hearty compliment.

The sweet old lady next to me was given a ticket for free and said she mostly liked shorter music, she was in for quite a shock after the work ended, not just for the length but its complexity. I hummed the theme that Ives transforms several times and she said she did recognize it though she might have been being polite, the first time I heard the piece it only stood out in The Alcotts.

The Concord Sonata opening movement might have been a hair more expansive ala his first recording but this could also be a skew in my temporal perception, I did not keep time. What was certain was the overall cohesion was more like the Hyperion recording. There was no flutist or violist which I sometimes prefer to hear, other times not. 

The chap in front of me was following along to a score on an iPad, had Gann's book, and left after the Concord Sonata!

[Cato]

Complicated! Here is a Gramophone article that may help.

-Bruce

Thanks for the link!  Excellent article!

I grew up with the John Kirkpatrick performances, and believe the article is correct: start with him!

Easley Blackwood - check out his compositions for microtonal synthesizer! - is also on target!

[brewski]

For those that have heard Marc-André Hamelin's old and new recording how do the two compare aside from his omission of flute and/or viola between the two recordings? I really like the Hyperion performance, one of my favorite CDs from him.

Sorry, I somehow meant to reply and forgot. I have only heard the New World recording, not the Hyperion, and haven't heard the former in so long that I couldn't offer any meaningful comment. Intended to buy the Hyperion when it came out, but well...life happens. 

I saw Hamelin play it and I certainly will have to add it to my works I have to see live more than a couple of times. Every time I have seen him what stands out is how much he resembles his CD performances, there are no histrionics or excuses for why the pianist is not so good on record but great live. In Gaspard his dynamic control was pin point, bordering on it sounding like he was underplaying dynamic markings, but like Yeol Eum Son who I have also thought that of he was not. The similarities between the two are interesting. (For me) the major reason I can think of to see to see him live is for the live sound quality and to support the musician/organizers/venue, but my stereo gets me 90% of the way there. Not meant as an insult but a hearty compliment.

The sweet old lady next to me was given a ticket for free and said she mostly liked shorter music, she was in for quite a shock after the work ended, not just for the length but its complexity. I hummed the theme that Ives transforms several times and she said she did recognize it though she might have been being polite, the first time I heard the piece it only stood out in The Alcotts.

The Concord Sonata opening movement might have been a hair more expansive ala his first recording but this could also be a skew in my temporal perception, I did not keep time. What was certain was the overall cohesion was more like the Hyperion recording. There was no flutist or violist which I sometimes prefer to hear, other times not. 

The chap in front of me was following along to a score on an iPad, had Gann's book, and left after the Concord Sonata!

Hamelin is a wonder. In the early 2000s, I was lucky to hear him in a relatively small room, when Mannes College of Music was on West 85th Street in New York. The hall had maybe 200 seats, which were gone in a flash. Some of his repertoire was "the usual suspects," but then there was that time he did the Dukas Piano Sonata. I don't expect to hear that piece live ever again.

Thanks for the link!  Excellent article!

I grew up with the John Kirkpatrick performances, and believe the article is correct: start with him!

Kirkpatrick was probably my first, too. Such an interesting time, when Ives was just beginning to be "discovered" and recorded.

-Bruce

[Atriod]

Sorry, I somehow meant to reply and forgot. I have only heard the New World recording, not the Hyperion, and haven't heard the former in so long that I couldn't offer any meaningful comment. Intended to buy the Hyperion when it came out, but well...life happens. 

No problem at all, it was inevitable that I was going to do the comparisons on a piece I like this much. This is how I would characterize the differences:

First recording - a bit more expansive. Possibly some more fantasy, notably in the first movement, but this might be reaching. No flute or viola. Pretty cool that Kyle Gann wrote the liner notes for this CD. I purchased this CD more recently, I'm more used to the Hyperion performance.

Second recording - sounds a touch more coherent overall. No viola. Has the flute in Thoreau which I quite like, gives a beautiful/haunting ending to the sonata. IMO the Hyperion recording is worth owning for an amazing performance of the Barber Piano Sonata, a particularly good coupling with Ives as like the Concord the Barber Piano Sonata is not that similar to a lot of what he composed.

Either could be a reference version and Jed Distler lists the old and new recording in the references section depending on what review of the Concord Sonata you're reading. Both do a fantastic job of evoking the cosmic quality of the piece.

Hamelin is a wonder. In the early 2000s, I was lucky to hear him in a relatively small room, when Mannes College of Music was on West 85th Street in New York. The hall had maybe 200 seats, which were gone in a flash. Some of his repertoire was "the usual suspects," but then there was that time he did the Dukas Piano Sonata. I don't expect to hear that piece live ever again.

On the Dukas Piano Sonata the second time I saw him Beethoven briefly came up and I brought up his quip about (paraphrasing) "people should listen to other sonatas instead of the Hammerklavier, like the Dukas Sonata" and he said that was a long story and laughed. There were a ton of people waiting to thank him/talk to him so he left it at that. I would have loved to hear the long story!

[Maestro267]

Picked up the Tilson-Thomas recording of the Holidays Symphony, The Unanswered Question and Central Park in the Dark yesterday.

On a completely unrelated note...I've seen a few different recordings of Symphony No. 1 with *vastly* different timings, of 15 minutes or so. The recording I have on Decca is 33 minutes but I've seen others in the 45-50-minute range too. Is there actually extra music in the longer recordings?

[Cato]

On the Dukas Piano Sonata the second time I saw him Beethoven briefly came up and I brought up his quip about (paraphrasing) "people should listen to other sonatas instead of the Hammerklavier, like the Dukas Sonata" and he said that was a long story and laughed. There were a ton of people waiting to thank him/talk to him so he left it at that. I would have loved to hear the long story!

Here is an example: the work would seem to be more of a symphony!

Charles Ives Symphony #1 is an all-around fave!

On a completely unrelated note...I've seen a few different recordings of Symphony No. 1 with *vastly* different timings, of 15 minutes or so. The recording I have on Decca is 33 minutes but I've seen others in the 45-50-minute range too. Is there actually extra music in the longer recordings?

I do not believe so: the problem is that the Decca (Zubin Mehta?) has cuts in the Finale, so it is shorter because it is not the complete, original score.

[Maestro267]

Oh I'm surprised it's the finale that has the cuts there. Would've thought it was the first movement, given the 7-minute difference between the Mehta and Sinclair recordings (11 vs 18m)

[brewski]

Picked up the Tilson-Thomas recording of the Holidays Symphony, The Unanswered Question and Central Park in the Dark yesterday.

That recording of The Fourth of July is usually the one I play every year on the day itself. The whole recording is terrific.

-Bruce