Need a couple of opera plunges to get my feet a bit more wet. What box sets do you enjoy....even if they are not the best single performances within to be had.
http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&keywords=Carlos%20Kleiber&tag=lascenamusicale&index=classical-music&link%5Fcode=qs
This box set of 5 operas (Shakespeare at the Opera) received a rating of 5 stars at amazon and is not extremely costly.
Quote from: Anne on March 08, 2009, 08:01:31 PM
http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&keywords=Carlos%20Kleiber&tag=lascenamusicale&index=classical-music&link%5Fcode=qs
This box set of 5 operas (Shakespeare at the Opera) received a rating of 5 stars at amazon and is not extremely costly.
No librettos though.
Quote from: jhar26 on March 09, 2009, 01:14:00 AM
No librettos though.
And all live recordings, which might be unsuitable as an introduction into opera.
Q
The lack of librettos is a real drawback to most of these sets. I have bought a few, mostly because I already had librettos with other recordings: Colin Davis's Berlioz Box (http://www.amazon.com/Berlioz-Complete-Operas-Box-Set/dp/B000025VM7/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1236591464&sr=1-8) (not cheap, but I see some sellers have used copies available). Decca has two Britten boxes: I bought volume one (http://www.amazon.com/Britten-Conducts-Operas-Box-Set/dp/B0001Y4JHU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1236591945&sr=1-1), though I already had the Billy Budd on CD. I skipped volume two (http://www.amazon.com/Britten-Conducts-Operas-Box-Set/dp/B000654OU6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1236591945&sr=1-2), since I have (and love) those recordings individually. There's Mackerras's wonderful Janáček cycle (http://www.amazon.com/Jan%C3%A1cek-Operas-Box-Leos-Janacek/dp/B000AC5B0M/ref=pd_sim_m_5) (I don't have the box set, but I have all the individual recordings). 4 discs of DG's 8-disc Alban Berg Collection (http://www.amazon.com/Alban-Berg-Collection-Various-Coll/dp/B0000B09Z4/ref=pd_sim_m_1) contain Boulez' Lulu and Abbado's Wozzeck recordings, my favorite recordings of those works.
I recently got the 70-disc EMI set of Maria Callas ~ Complete Studio Recordings (http://www.amazon.com/Maria-Callas-Complete-Studio-Recordings/dp/B000TIO4Z0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1236592496&sr=1-1). This does have complete texts (as .pdf files on disc 70), and, of course, the operas included are more basic repertory than Berg, Berlioz, Britten, and Janáček. Of course, some absolultely hate Callas, so caveat emptor. Currently, amazon.com's selling it for $99.97, less than $1.50 per disc. I just got it a few weeks ago, and am still working my way through (today will be La Bohème, discs 34 & 35), and I'd consider it a bargain if it only contained what I've listened to so far.
Quote from: Wendell_E on March 09, 2009, 02:15:56 AM
I recently got the 70-disc EMI set of Maria Callas ~ Complete Studio Recordings (http://www.amazon.com/Maria-Callas-Complete-Studio-Recordings/dp/B000TIO4Z0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1236592496&sr=1-1). This does have complete texts (as .pdf files on disc 70), and, of course, the operas included are more basic repertory than Berg, Berlioz, Britten, and Janáček. Of course, some absolultely hate Callas, so caveat emptor. Currently, amazon.com's selling it for $99.97, less than $1.50 per disc. I just got it a few weeks ago, and am still working my way through (today will be La Bohème, discs 34 & 35), and I'd consider it a bargain if it only contained what I've listened to so far.
Alapage.fr were selling it for 28 Euros recently. Vat deducted, and with a 10 E free coupon, it cost me all of 15 E + 12 E p&p.
Quote from: erato on March 09, 2009, 04:21:38 AM
Alapage.fr were selling it for 28 Euros recently. Vat deducted, and with a 10 E free coupon, it cost me all of 15 E + 12 E p&p.
Incredible bargain! :o :)
And I hope the example of a CD-R with the libretto & liner notes is followed suit by other companies, it's obviously the way forward for bargain issues and possibly all issues in the future.
Q
I also ment to mention this EMI box of Poulenc's Œuvres Lyriques (http://www.amazon.com/Poulenc-Lyric-Works-Centenaire-Vol/dp/B0000241R1/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1236605475&sr=1-8), which includes the recordings of Dialogues des Carmélites, Les mamelles de Tirésias, and La Voix Humaine, all with Denise Duval. The booklet does have texts, but in French only IIRC. Pretty expensive at the amazon.com link I'm giving, I bought it for a lot less from Berkshire Record Outlet, but they don't have it any more. Worth searching for, if you're interested.
Have a look at EMI's Karajan Vocal box set. It has no paper librettos, but there is a separate disc with all of them on it. You go from the early sets including Callas in Butterfly and Trovatore, a live Meistrsingers, through classics such as the famous Rosenkavalier and Gobbi in Falstaff to stereo versions of Peleas and Melisande, Don Carlos, Aida, Fidelio, Tristan.....and so on. Altogether 72 discs. In addition, two Missa Solemnis, The Seasons, an early and lively Bach B Minor Messe, Brahms German Requiem.....a real treasure trove, I have hardly scratched the surface.
http://www.amazon.com/Karajan-100th-2-Opera-Vocals/dp/B000ZBPQEE/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1236623206&sr=1-5
Mike
Quote from: Bogey on March 08, 2009, 05:43:17 PM
Need a couple of opera plunges to get my feet a bit more wet. What box sets do you enjoy....even if they are not the best single performances within to be had.
If you are looking to drown in
Wagner 0:) I'd say this COMPLETE set of the 4 operas of the Ring Cycle is essential (If you can afford it that is $:)!):
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41XST9HX1ZL._SS500_.jpg)
If you are looking to drown in
Janacek 0:) I can recommend this set (beware though that translated libretti are NOT included):
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51332NH12AL._SS500_.jpg)
I do not know of any good box sets of
Verdi 0:) operas as I have purchased most of Verdi's operas individually, the same holds true for
Puccini 0:) and
Richard Strauss 0:)....is there one out there I wonder??
marvin
Quote from: marvinbrown on March 13, 2009, 07:12:59 AM
If you are looking to drown in Wagner 0:) I'd say this COMPLETE set of the 4 operas of the Ring Cycle is essential (If you can afford it that is $:)!):
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41XST9HX1ZL._SS500_.jpg)
I'm just waiting for my second mortage to get approved, then I'm pressing the click button! ;)
Quote from: marvinbrown on March 13, 2009, 07:12:59 AM
I do not know of any good box sets of Verdi 0:) operas as I have purchased most of Verdi's operas individually, the same holds true for Puccini 0:) and Richard Strauss 0:)....is there one out there I wonder??
EMI, Decca, and BMG/Sony all have Puccini boxes:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Dpopular&field-keywords=puccini+operas&x=0&y=0
I know at one time Decca had a box of the Strauss operas Solti recorded for them, but a quick search didn't turn them up. Probably out of print, anyway.
Edit: found it used (and expensive) at amazon.co.uk:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/R-Strauss-Operas-Richard/dp/B000024366/ref=sr_1_21?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1236969444&sr=1-21
DG had a series of Böhm conducting Strauss operas, but I don't recall if they were ever boxed together.
Speaking of Wagner, there's that Decca Bayreuth box:
http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Great-Operas-Bayreuth-Festival/dp/B00159679S/ref=pd_sim_m_1
I'm surprised no one is mentioning the Decca "50 Greatest Operas" box (http://www.amazon.fr/Plus-Grands-Op%C3%A9ras-Monde-Coffret/dp/B000VTHTVS/ref=pd_sbs_m_4) (50 operas on 100 discs). For my taste, there's far too much Fischer-Dieskau in it. But as far as general introductions to opera go, it would be difficult to find a better one-box bargain.
For Handel, there's this set:
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/6958622.jpg)
And for Vivaldi, there's these 27 discs:
(http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/t_200/naiveop30470.jpg)
Quote from: Maciek on March 13, 2009, 11:07:48 AM
I'm surprised no one is mentioning the Decca "50 Greatest Operas" box (http://www.amazon.fr/Plus-Grands-Op%C3%A9ras-Monde-Coffret/dp/B000VTHTVS/ref=pd_sbs_m_4) (50 operas on 100 discs). For my taste, there's far too much Fischer-Dieskau in it. But as far as general introductions to opera go, it would be difficult to find a better one-box bargain.
I've never seen that box, maybe it hasn't made it to the U.S. I know we shouldn't take the "50 Greatest Operas" thing too seriously, but I had to laugh when I saw that
Cyrano de Bergerac,
Mireille, and
La Wally make the cut, while
Manon,
Roméo et Juliette, and
Tristan und Isolde don't!
Quote from: marvinbrown on March 13, 2009, 07:12:59 AM
If you are looking to drown in Wagner 0:) I'd say this COMPLETE set of the 4 operas of the Ring Cycle is essential (If you can afford it that is $:)!):
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41XST9HX1ZL._SS500_.jpg)
Solti's
Ring (fine though it is) is a mere paddle into Wagner - the drowners should try this set:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31-flS6c96L._SL500_AA180_.jpg)
All of the operas from
Holländer to
Parsifal - for around $50.
Quote from: bricon on March 13, 2009, 03:00:31 PM
All of the operas from Holländer to Parsifal - for around $50.
And all those operas are oldies! There isn't one contemporary production, even getting into the vicinity of contemporary. I don't want to insist you buy anything directed by Katharina Wagner - even I ain't buying that one, - but anything with
Siegfried Jerusalem would be a great experience.
Quote from: Brünnhilde forever on March 13, 2009, 08:31:48 PM
And all those operas are oldies! There isn't one contemporary production, even getting into the vicinity of contemporary. I don't want to insist you buy anything directed by Katharina Wagner - even I ain't buying that one, - but anything with Siegfried Jerusalem would be a great experience.
Since that Wagner box, like most (all?) of the recordings mentioned in this thread, is on CD, I'd think that whatever the productions
looked like is completely irrelevant. ::)
But Wendell, there are CDs available with Bryn Terfel, Placido Domingo, Poul Elming, Struckmann, et al. in opera performances. :)
Quote from: Brünnhilde forever on March 14, 2009, 08:39:10 AM
But Wendell, there are CDs available with Bryn Terfel, Placido Domingo, Poul Elming, Struckmann, et al. in opera performances. :)
Yeah, I knew that. What's you're point? ;D I don't age-discriminate when it comes to recordings. If it's a great performance, I don't care if it was recorded fifty years ago, or yesterday.
Domingo's first (RCA) recording of
Il Trovatore was done 40 years ago, BTW.
Ach Dear Wendell: You know what my point is! ;D
I have been pushing my pet project, 'advertising' contemporary artists, composers, directors long enough for you to be familiar with it - and to be patient to put up with it! :-*
Btw: When I mentioned Domingo, et al, I was thinking only of Wagner.
Another good set. I've already got all of them on CD, except for The Fiery Angel and War and Peace, which I have on DVD. Of course, the (presumed) lack of libretti is a really big drawback in this case.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51SU7zp2ERL._SS350_.jpg)
Almost goes without saying that EMI studio opera recordings of Maria Callas are essential, new 70 CD set for $85, even cheaper used from Amazon sellers USA
Quote from: Wendell_E on March 09, 2009, 02:15:56 AM
I recently got the 70-disc EMI set of Maria Callas ~ Complete Studio Recordings (http://www.amazon.com/Maria-Callas-Complete-Studio-Recordings/dp/B000TIO4Z0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1236592496&sr=1-1). This does have complete texts (as .pdf files on disc 70), and, of course, the operas included are more basic repertory than Berg, Berlioz, Britten, and Janáček. Of course, some absolultely hate Callas, so caveat emptor. Currently, amazon.com's selling it for $99.97, less than $1.50 per disc. I just got it a few weeks ago, and am still working my way through (today will be La Bohème, discs 34 & 35), and I'd consider it a bargain if it only contained what I've listened to so far.
Wait......I see someone already mentioned this 70 CD set by La Divina
Price keeps getting cheaper, a good thing for us
Quote from: Wendell_E on March 25, 2010, 02:58:55 AM
Of course, the (presumed) lack of libretti is a really big drawback in this case.
Yes, only useful for fanatics who already have other versions of the operas and the associated booklets.
I don't know if it has been mentioned already, but I have this one:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51IfhZyQsWL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
I see Decca's coming out with a 23-disc Massenet Edition in June. The first 17 discs are complete operas (not all of his operas, by any means), the other discs include songs, ballets, etc. And the libretti and texts are included on a CD-ROM. It's listed at amazon, but mdt.co.uk has the contents: http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//4783963.htm
Quote from: Wendell_E on May 27, 2012, 10:24:35 AM
I see Decca's coming out with a 23-disc Massenet Edition in June. The first 17 discs are complete operas (not all of his operas, by any means), the other discs include songs, ballets, etc. And the libretti and texts are included on a CD-ROM. It's listed at amazon, but mdt.co.uk has the contents: http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//4783963.htm
This was posted last month somewhere else (cannot remember where). Very excited about this as there is a lot of good stuff in there. A large number of first choices are in the box (scpecifically the operas), which makes it quite attractive.
Quote from: mc ukrneal on May 27, 2012, 10:52:37 AM
This was posted last month somewhere else (cannot remember where). Very excited about this as there is a lot of good stuff in there. A large number of first choices are in the box (scpecifically the operas), which makes it quite attractive.
Quote from: Wendell_E on May 27, 2012, 10:24:35 AM
I see Decca's coming out with a 23-disc Massenet Edition in June. The first 17 discs are complete operas (not all of his operas, by any means), the other discs include songs, ballets, etc. And the libretti and texts are included on a CD-ROM. It's listed at amazon, but mdt.co.uk has the contents: http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//4783963.htm
Thank you for posting on this Massenet box set. I only have 2 operas in my collection, Manon and Werther, so this box set should be ideal for me.
marvin
I hope this is not a bad location for this question. I asked about this item once in the "Recordings You Are Considering" thread, but I asked it in passing, in a long list of items; not to be "bumpy" about my request, but if anyone knows this box, I would love an opinion:
[asin]B004TVVZIC[/asin]
Jussi Björling: COMPLETE RCA ALBUM COLLECTION (Sony, 14cd, 2011)
At least several of the discs are apparently short or very short (a couple are apparently ~25 minutes!), so I guess this set is at least partly an "original jacket" fetish/concept. My larger concern is that I am in the in-between space between knowing some Björling and loving his voice, on the one hand, but also being nowhere close to a completist/collector. Is there enough of interest in this set to make it worth the purchase, never mind the "value" (relatively cheap price)? Already I see that I might need to own the complete MANON LESCAUT which is extensively excerpted here. If there are other in-print recordings that are absolutely worth having in their entirety, which are included in this box only as excerpts, it would be great to know about them. I am usually more happy with entire works than bleeding chunks; and I think I prefer grand opera to operetta, though this is a snobbery born of inexperience, I will admit. I imagine I might not even know the difference, while listening to them. It's all abstract pleasure to me. I also dig Lachenmann.
Quote from: Octave on January 12, 2013, 11:07:10 PM
I hope this is not a bad location for this question. I asked about this item once in the "Recordings You Are Considering" thread, but I asked it in passing, in a long list of items; not to be "bumpy" about my request, but if anyone knows this box, I would love an opinion:
[asin]B004TVVZIC[/asin]
Jussi Björling: COMPLETE RCA ALBUM COLLECTION (Sony, 14cd, 2011)
At least several of the discs are apparently short or very short (a couple are apparently ~25 minutes!), so I guess this set is at least partly an "original jacket" fetish/concept. My larger concern is that I am in the in-between space between knowing some Björling and loving his voice, on the one hand, but also being nowhere close to a completist/collector. Is there enough of interest in this set to make it worth the purchase, never mind the "value" (relatively cheap price)? Already I see that I might need to own the complete MANON LESCAUT which is extensively excerpted here. If there are other in-print recordings that are absolutely worth having in their entirety, which are included in this box only as excerpts, it would be great to know about them. I am usually more happy with entire works than bleeding chunks; and I think I prefer grand opera to operetta, though this is a snobbery born of inexperience, I will admit. I imagine I might not even know the difference, while listening to them. It's all abstract pleasure to me. I also dig Lachenmann.
There's a single disc recording of Pagliacci which I know is not in that box, because it's from EMI!
[asin]B0000E3HM0[/asin]
Beyond that, I'm not enamored enough of Bjorling to have anything else by him.
BTW, I was offline all yesterday, but I saw what you posted in the Purchases thread yesterday, and a hearty thumbs up to the Shostakovich, Villa Lobos, Ariodante, and the Byrd. (And the English Church Music set, but I already chimed in about that.)
Quote from: Octave on January 12, 2013, 11:07:10 PM
I hope this is not a bad location for this question. I asked about this item once in the "Recordings You Are Considering" thread, but I asked it in passing, in a long list of items; not to be "bumpy" about my request, but if anyone knows this box, I would love an opinion:
[asin]B004TVVZIC[/asin]
Jussi Björling: COMPLETE RCA ALBUM COLLECTION (Sony, 14cd, 2011)
At least several of the discs are apparently short or very short (a couple are apparently ~25 minutes!), so I guess this set is at least partly an "original jacket" fetish/concept. My larger concern is that I am in the in-between space between knowing some Björling and loving his voice, on the one hand, but also being nowhere close to a completist/collector. Is there enough of interest in this set to make it worth the purchase, never mind the "value" (relatively cheap price)? Already I see that I might need to own the complete MANON LESCAUT which is extensively excerpted here. If there are other in-print recordings that are absolutely worth having in their entirety, which are included in this box only as excerpts, it would be great to know about them. I am usually more happy with entire works than bleeding chunks; and I think I prefer grand opera to operetta, though this is a snobbery born of inexperience, I will admit. I imagine I might not even know the difference, while listening to them. It's all abstract pleasure to me. I also dig Lachenmann.
If you like his voice, it certainly will have a lot, but not of all of his performances. There is a shorter, 5-disc EMI Icon box of Bjoerling that will not probably have much overlap (in performances, though it may repeat repertoire). As mentioned, there are some that he recorded for other companies, like la Boheme (very good version with Beecham), Madame Butterfly, and Verdi's Requiem (a few that come to mind). Anyway, you may want to take a look at that box as well.
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on January 13, 2013, 08:13:38 AM
BTW, I was offline all yesterday, but I saw what you posted in the Purchases thread yesterday, and a hearty thumbs up to the Shostakovich, Villa Lobos, Ariodante, and the Byrd. (And the English Church Music set, but I already chimed in about that.)
Thanks Jeffrey for this confirmation; even brief audio samples and occasional Spotify aren't enough, I find, for me to really know if I'm going to enjoy living with a record, since it is not always love at first listen, and sometimes it is
only love at first listen. I think I owed you thanks for the ENGLISH CHURCH MUSIC recommendation but forgot to mention it, so thanks!
Thanks also to mc ukrneal for the tip.
DG did releasea set of Richard Strauss operas conducted by Bohm in 1994, the great conductor's centennial year .
It included his live Salome with the Hamburg State opera, the studio Elektrea from Dresden, a live Salzburg Rosenkavalier,Ariadne,
Frau Ohne Schatten live from Vienna, Arabella, Die Schweigsame Frau , Daphne and Capriccio . It's probably very hard to find now, but you could check arkivmusic.com, the best website from hard to find classical CDs.
Last weekend, at a local bricks & mortar store, I picked up an 11-CD Telarc set of Mozart's "Great Operas" (3 Mozart-da Ponte + Zauberflöte) conducted by Mackerras for under $30.00. I've only had a chance to listen to the Figaro so far, but on the basis of that alone, it was worth the money. No libretti, but a link to get them online. Generous (35+ minutes for Figaro alone) appendices of alternate/variant numbers.
http://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Great-Operas-Wolfgang-Amadeus/dp/B001KK6RBK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1400326464&sr=8-1&keywords=mozart+the+great+operas
DG's Wagner collection dropped to 47 GBP today....
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wagner-Complete-Operas-Various-Artists/dp/B00980IA3M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401615989&sr=8-1&keywords=wagner+opera (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wagner-Complete-Operas-Various-Artists/dp/B00980IA3M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401615989&sr=8-1&keywords=wagner+opera)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/716TrTCp0%2BL._SL1500_.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81c5LDM9cgL._SL1140_.jpg)
Quote from: Superhorn on January 16, 2013, 07:57:36 AM
DG did releasea set of Richard Strauss operas conducted by Bohm in 1994, the great conductor's centennial year .
It included his live Salome with the Hamburg State opera, the studio Elektrea from Dresden, a live Salzburg Rosenkavalier,Ariadne,
Frau Ohne Schatten live from Vienna, Arabella, Die Schweigsame Frau , Daphne and Capriccio . It's probably very hard to find now, but you could check arkivmusic.com, the best website from hard to find classical CDs.
Just in case, there's now this one:
[asin]B00G4PV0H2[/asin]
I skipped it but bought several of the Böhm recordings separately (Ariadne, Capriccio, Daphre, Die Frau ohne Schatten, Die schweigsame Frau), instead got the EMI box which was out a bit earlier:
[asin]B00FM60U8E[/asin]
Haven't really listened to much Strauss, but my own private library is now well-equipped (there are some "Salome's", too, and there's the Solti "Arabella", the Haitink "Daphne", the Mitropoulos "Elektra" ...
As for Wagner ... I bought some, too, but decided against the DG box after doing some reading. But there I've played even less than with Strauss, so don't ask me ...
Opinions on Barenboim here?
For reference, for Wagner operas on CD I have 3 rings (Karajan, Solti, Janowski), one Parsifal (Karajan), one Tristan (Bohm), and one Lohengrin (Kempe).
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81QBkrDa7hL._SY355_.jpg)
I have that Barenboim box and it has good sound overall. I don't listen to it much any more.
This is a nice set and has the wonderful Sawallisch 1968 Ring:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81vQl3-jvsL._SY355_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81MgxvfohsL._SL1047_.jpg)
Alternately, if you like the Janowski Ring, this is an interesting set.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81aC-dM1JpL._SX355_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81w1EmfzjNL._SL1163_.jpg)
I have this set, I got it very cheaply. The oddity is that thee is no Tristan, just some extracts in mono, great voices, but odd in the context of all the surrounding modern recordings. The Ring recording was better than I expected, I am not a fan of that conductor. He does not sweep me away or make my pulse race, but it is certainly not boring. Very good sound and Really strong casts.
Mike
Quote from: knight66 on April 20, 2021, 12:46:42 PM
I have this set, I got it very cheaply. The oddity is that thee is no Tristan, just some extracts in mono, great voices, but odd in the context of all the surrounding modern recordings. The Ring recording was better than I expected, I am not a fan of that conductor. He does not sweep me away or make my pulse race, but it is certainly not boring. Very good sound and Really strong casts.
Mike
It is a box set for the Wagner fan who has to have everything or for one who wants that particular Janowski Ring (there are two). I bought it because I found a decent price and figured why not. Rarely listen to it, but looks impressive on the shelf. ;D