GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: vandermolen on September 26, 2010, 10:23:24 AM

Title: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: vandermolen on September 26, 2010, 10:23:24 AM
I was curious about this Finnish composer as I noticed that he wrote the music for many Ingmar Bergman films, including my favourite 'The Seventh Seal'. [Added later - I got this totally wrong as it was Erik Nordgren who wrote the Bergman soundtracks  :-\] I found a second hand Ondine CD (withdrawn from the Kansas City music library) of Nordgren's 3rd and 5th symphonies on Amazon UK.  These are very dark, uncompromising, tonal works which I found extremely gripping - a kind of bleak traversal of a shadowy wasteland. Lyrical sections are interrupted by extraordinary orchestral explosions and there are some very striking orchestral effects - the opening of Symphony No 5 for example. There is not much in the way of tunes (although Symphony No 5 has a 'Karelian lament' running through it which is oddly moving), but the atmosphere of both works I found held my attention throughout. There is a haunting quality to this music and a real sense of a dark journey taking place. His music does not really remind me of anyone else, although occasionally Allan Petterson came to mind. I'd be interested to hear of any other opinions of this challenging but worthwhile composer. The striking cover art of the CD is very appropriate I think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pehr_Henrik_Nordgren
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: CD on September 26, 2010, 11:48:47 AM
Yes, I've heard that disc and both works are wonderfully dark and very characteristic. I wish I could say more about him but I haven't had the chance to hear anything else yet. I think I will give that another listen today and look for the other symphonies.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: The new erato on September 26, 2010, 01:59:49 PM
I've had my eyes on this disc for some time now. I alwso am interested in this:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51xXzQp%2B0-L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

but haven't been able to find it or something approaching a reasonable (20 euros is the best I've seen)price.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: vandermolen on September 26, 2010, 02:14:35 PM
Thank you Corey and Erato for your replies - I thought that this might be a strong candidate for the Zero response thread award! The problem is that the other CD with Symphony No 4 on seems to be unavailable. Those last string quartets look interesting. I hope to find some more Nordgren soon. I really like the two grimly uncompromising symphonies on the Ondine CD I bought. I find that there is something very humane beneath the glowering darkness of those two fine scores.

Here's an interesting obituary from The Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/oct/08/classicalmusicandopera.finland
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: The new erato on September 27, 2010, 01:52:28 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on September 26, 2010, 02:14:35 PM
Thank you Corey and Erato for your replies - I thought that this might be a strong candidate for the Zero response thread award! The problem is that the other CD with Symphony No 4 on seems to be unavailable. Those last string quartets look interesting. I hope to find some more Nordgren soon. I really like the two grimly uncompromising symphonies on the Ondine CD I bought. I find that there is something very humane beneath the glowering darkness of those two fine scores.

Here's an interesting obituary from The Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/oct/08/classicalmusicandopera.finland
Symphony 4 & 7 (IIRC) is also available on Alba - but the price is a deterrent on all Alba discs. I seem to remember a glowing review of the string quartets disc somewhere, it may have been IRR or maybe musicweb (?)
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: snyprrr on September 27, 2010, 06:26:40 AM
I believe there's also an Ondine SQ cd. Always on the way back burner.

Nordgren, Nordheim, Englund, Holmsberg, Bergholm,... how doooes one keep track, haha??
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: vandermolen on September 27, 2010, 06:41:57 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on September 27, 2010, 06:26:40 AM
I believe there's also an Ondine SQ cd. Always on the way back burner.

Nordgren, Nordheim, Englund, Holmsberg, Bergholm,... how doooes one keep track, haha??

Not to forget Holmboe and Rosenberg  :)
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: CD on September 27, 2010, 06:52:22 AM
...and Nørgård and Nørholm :D
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: The new erato on September 27, 2010, 07:00:39 AM
And don't forget Arne Nordheim who just died.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: CD on September 27, 2010, 07:04:18 AM
Nordgren's page on Wikipedia is horribly written/translated. Perhaps someone here could rewrite it? :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pehr_Henrik_Nordgren
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: CD on September 27, 2010, 07:11:06 AM
Also, The Seventh Seal was released in 1957, which meant Nordgren would've been 13 (!) when he wrote it.

Wikipedia lists the composer for the music as Erik Nordgren, who I don't think I've heard outside of the film music. I barely noticed the music in Seventh Seal at all apart from the Dies Irae chant.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: vandermolen on September 28, 2010, 02:10:20 AM
Quote from: Corey on September 27, 2010, 07:11:06 AM
Also, The Seventh Seal was released in 1957, which meant Nordgren would've been 13 (!) when he wrote it.

Wikipedia lists the composer for the music as Erik Nordgren, who I don't think I've heard outside of the film music. I barely noticed the music in Seventh Seal at all apart from the Dies Irae chant.

Oh well, at least it lead me to discover a very interesting composer! You are quite right and I've now changed my original posting. I've always been an enthusiastic practitioner of the loud-mouthed display of ignorance!  ::)
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: CD on September 28, 2010, 05:14:50 AM
Oh shh you know more about British/Scandinavian composers than I ever will. :D
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: snyprrr on September 28, 2010, 06:18:40 AM
Checked the Nordgren on Amazon.

There's that Alba series.

Didn't see the "Last Quartets".



hmmm, I thought there was more. Once again, must be confusing him with Englund. Will have to investigate further.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: vandermolen on September 29, 2010, 01:51:21 AM
Quote from: Corey on September 28, 2010, 05:14:50 AM
Oh shh you know more about British/Scandinavian composers than I ever will. :D

:)
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: CD on September 29, 2010, 05:11:18 AM
I was able to find this two-disc set on through download called "Meet the Composer" (Finlandia). It has quite a variety of work:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41lQ4BtQROL._SS400_.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51qcCZELEJL._SS400_.jpg)

Looks like there's one available on Amazon.UK used for £9.99.


Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: vandermolen on September 29, 2010, 07:03:55 AM
Quote from: Corey on September 29, 2010, 05:11:18 AM
I was able to find this two-disc set on through download called "Meet the Composer" (Finlandia). It has quite a variety of work:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41lQ4BtQROL._SS400_.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51qcCZELEJL._SS400_.jpg)

Looks like there's one available on Amazon.UK used for £9.99.

Actually that was a very good series, but now rather difficult/expensive to find I think. I have a number of then including ones devoted to the music of Klami, Englund, Madetoja etc.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: The new erato on September 29, 2010, 07:08:27 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on September 29, 2010, 07:03:55 AM
Actually that was a very good series, but now rather difficult/expensive to find I think. I have a number of then including ones devoted to the music of Klami, Englund, Madetoja etc.
How original with the last two piano ballads on the end of disc one, and the first eight on disc two. That means you have to start by playing disc two, skipping the chamber work at the end of that disc, then put on disc one and "fastforward" to the end of it to hear the collection complete.

No wonder Finlandia (unfortunately) went bust. Is there no end to the stupidity of record company managers?
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: CD on September 29, 2010, 07:59:43 AM
The problem can be easily fixed if you listen on a computer and make a playlist. I'll be sure to post about it once listened. I thought the piano parts in the 3rd symphony were quite beautiful, so I'm interested in hearing the solo piano pieces.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: The new erato on September 29, 2010, 08:19:48 AM
Quote from: Corey on September 29, 2010, 07:59:43 AM
The problem can be easily fixed if you listen on a computer and make a playlist.
But the idea of buying a CD is NOT to play on a computer, in which case I just could buy and download exactly thoise files I were interested in.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: CD on September 29, 2010, 05:01:16 PM
Oh I see. I don't know what your "setup" is like but I've always ripped my CDs to computer and listened with headphones on my iPod.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: The new erato on September 29, 2010, 10:25:37 PM
Quote from: Corey on September 29, 2010, 05:01:16 PM
Oh I see. I don't know what your "setup" is like but I've always ripped my CDs to computer and listened with headphones on my iPod.
To each his own I guess and of course one can edit all one want (if that is what one wants from buying a CD); doesn't preclude this from being the most cumbersome and illogical CD layout I've ever seen. I've got 30.000 $ + of equipment in my main rig and playing from a PC (while in general not a bad idea if I could be bothered to rip, organize and backup all those files) into headphones is very far from my priorities.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: CD on September 30, 2010, 04:58:33 AM
Yeah, I thought it was annoying to have a single piece separated across two discs (one that isn't of Mahlerian or Late-Feldmanesque length, that is :D), but this really makes no sense, but it could be a typo — I've just checked and the copy I downloaded has the tracks in the correct order.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: CD on September 30, 2010, 04:59:03 AM
Now if I could only find those string quartets!
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: The new erato on September 30, 2010, 05:58:22 AM
Quote from: Corey on September 30, 2010, 04:59:03 AM
Now if I could only find those string quartets!
It's here:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Letzte-Streichquartette-Pehr-Henrik-Nordgren/dp/B003RU0X1Q/ref=sr_1_37?s=STORE&ie=UTF8&qid=1285855034&sr=1-37 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Letzte-Streichquartette-Pehr-Henrik-Nordgren/dp/B003RU0X1Q/ref=sr_1_37?s=STORE&ie=UTF8&qid=1285855034&sr=1-37)

For close to 20 quid (£)
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: snyprrr on March 11, 2011, 08:02:12 AM
Nordgren's Piano Quintet, Op.44 is...WOW!,... 20mins of the darkest, most poetic Nordic/Shostakovian lamenting. By turns spare and brutal, expressionist and lyrical, one of this PQ's outstanding features is Nordgren's use of 'bluesy' (not in the American sense) microtones. Is anyone else as impressed as I am? This is my first encounter with Nordgren.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: Lethevich on March 11, 2011, 08:37:29 AM
I don't know how I managed to miss this thread first time around. I'm glad you came around to that disc with the 3rd and 5th symphonies, Jeffrey - if I recall correctly you were a little less enthusiastic on your initial listen? I must listen to this composer more closely, but there's so little time :-\
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: some guy on March 11, 2011, 11:34:56 AM
Hey snyprrr, what do you mean by "'bluesy' (not in the American sense)"? You've intrigued me with that!

Also with the rest of your description, of course. Enough to look for the quintet for my own self.

But any other sense of 'bluesy' other than American caught my eye in a different way.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: snyprrr on March 11, 2011, 12:34:08 PM
Quote from: some guy on March 11, 2011, 11:34:56 AM
Hey snyprrr, what do you mean by "'bluesy' (not in the American sense)"? You've intrigued me with that!

Also with the rest of your description, of course. Enough to look for the quintet for my own self.

But any other sense of 'bluesy' other than American caught my eye in a different way.

Well, hmm,... on YouTube, for Xenakis's Cendrees, go to Part 2 (out of 3). There is a flute solo of sorts there, and I find it just so jazzy. I guess I'm saying that at a certain point in time, Composers were able to harness the power of sliding into notes better than ever before,... aaand, as good as the more,... er, indigenous types of emoting.

I guess Nordgren's sliding sounds more Japanese than Delta. He's playing a scale similar to that Xenakis Pelog scale (but, more Northern ???, whatever that means: Nordgren has a very unique Tone), and sliding in and out of a beautiful melody,... the overall effect for me is a Viking/ancient Japan feeling,... very Conan the Barbarian, but in the best sense possible (try not to see Arnie),... perhaps Magnus Magnusson, if you know who that is (a writer). I know this is terrible, haha!! The point is, it has that deeply 'felt' feeling written into the music, I believe.

Yes, I made the Xenakis/Conan/Memphis connection!! :o oy ::)
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: Mirror Image on March 11, 2011, 08:02:52 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on September 26, 2010, 10:23:24 AM
I was curious about this Finnish composer as I noticed that he wrote the music for many Ingmar Bergman films, including my favourite 'The Seventh Seal'. [Added later - I got this totally wrong as it was Erik Nordgren who wrote the Bergman soundtracks  :-\] I found a second hand Ondine CD (withdrawn from the Kansas City music library) of Nordgren's 3rd and 5th symphonies on Amazon UK.  These are very dark, uncompromising, tonal works which I found extremely gripping - a kind of bleak traversal of a shadowy wasteland. Lyrical sections are interrupted by extraordinary orchestral explosions and there are some very striking orchestral effects - the opening of Symphony No 5 for example. There is not much in the way of tunes (although Symphony No 5 has a 'Karelian lament' running through it which is oddly moving), but the atmosphere of both works I found held my attention throughout. There is a haunting quality to this music and a real sense of a dark journey taking place. His music does not really remind me of anyone else, although occasionally Allan Petterson came to mind. I'd be interested to hear of any other opinions of this challenging but worthwhile composer. The striking cover art of the CD is very appropriate I think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pehr_Henrik_Nordgren

Honestly, I'm not too impressed with this composer. Listening to his Symphony No. 3, I thought I was listening to Allan Pettersson minus the lyrical moments that the best Pettersson works have. The music doesn't really sound like anything. Almost directionless, many of Pettersson's works have this meandering quality that I don't like either, but, at least, in Pettersson's strong works which I consider Symphonies Nos. 6-7 and his Violin Concerto No. 2 have points where the music is redeemed. This is just a first listen and I haven't heard anything else by the composer whom I understand composed a lot of orchestral works, especially for solo instruments, but only time will tell if I actually will want to investigate the composer further.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: some guy on March 11, 2011, 11:45:22 PM
snyprrr, you know, I think that what you just said makes perfect sense. (And I hope that that's a good sign!)
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: snyprrr on March 12, 2011, 05:48:55 AM
Quote from: some guy on March 11, 2011, 11:45:22 PM
snyprrr, you know, I think that what you just said makes perfect sense. (And I hope that that's a good sign!)

Wow, major doom must be on the way! Duck and cover!! :o
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: snyprrr on July 18, 2011, 10:30:59 AM
bump
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: snyprrr on January 17, 2013, 07:41:04 PM
Quote from: some guy on March 11, 2011, 11:45:22 PM
snyprrr, you know, I think that what you just said makes perfect sense. (And I hope that that's a good sign!)

Herr-hmmm ::) ;)
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: calyptorhynchus on January 17, 2013, 08:29:20 PM
There seems to be a lot of Nordgren on

http://www.classicsonline.com/  (mp3 downloads)

Including the string quartets disc mentioned before for $9.99.

I have one disc of his, Music for 19 Strings and Cello Concerto and I think it's very good. Might take the plunge with the SQs.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: snyprrr on January 18, 2013, 07:35:00 AM
Quote from: calyptorhynchus on January 17, 2013, 08:29:20 PM
There seems to be a lot of Nordgren on

http://www.classicsonline.com/  (mp3 downloads)

Including the string quartets disc mentioned before for $9.99.

I have one disc of his, Music for 19 Strings and Cello Concerto and I think it's very good. Might take the plunge with the SQs.

His name constantly calls me to try... something. SQs? Cello Concerto? Symphonies?

Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: calyptorhynchus on January 18, 2013, 09:01:06 PM
Well, I downloaded the SQs disk as MP3s (SQs 10 and 11) and I think they're very good. if you like tonal, modern music, these are for you. A little less astringent than Simpson, perhaps more like David Matthews. A little influence from Japanese music in places. Give it a go!
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: snyprrr on April 12, 2014, 07:56:47 PM
Quote from: calyptorhynchus on January 18, 2013, 09:01:06 PM
Well, I downloaded the SQs disk as MP3s (SQs 10 and 11) and I think they're very good. if you like tonal, modern music, these are for you. A little less astringent than Simpson, perhaps more like David Matthews. A little influence from Japanese music in places. Give it a go!

I enjoyed those samples today.

Nordgren is one of the darkest Composers ever, if we limit that to a Romantic Darkness, such as DSCH or Mahler or whatever. Nordgren seems forever writing music of post-apocalyptic angst, always brooding, and not particularly violent. 8 or 9 Symphonies, 4 Violins Concertos and 3 Cello Concertos (I think), 11 SQs, it's almost too much! And yes, EXPENSIVE!!
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: vandermolen on January 15, 2015, 12:23:20 PM
Have been listening to Symphony 7 (2003) having recently received this CD. It is a most extraordinary score and I have played it through several times over the last few days. To me it is a searching and visionary work, which starts out very much in the spirit of Rautavaara. It is a very dark work, with sombre episode interspersed with folk type songs which reminded me of a British sea shanty! Charles Ives also came to mind with the seemingly bizarre juxtapositions of dissonant and lyrical material. I am delighted to have discovered this remarkable score and have not even got on yet to Nordgren's last symphony, the No.8 of 2006.
[asin]B0032HKEHW[/asin]
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/pehr-henrik-nordgren-modernist-composer-who-incorporated-folk-music-into-his-work-and-relished-his-artistic-freedom-961316.html
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: Daverz on January 15, 2015, 02:13:41 PM
Some interesting comments by Ronald E. Grames in the last Fanfare about a disc with his Clarinet Concerto

QuoteOne can hear Nordgren's energetic, assertive, often disjointed, unsettling, and occasionally ominous voice developing in these two works of his early career. The musical personality would become more focused, the folk-inspired elements more a part of the fabric, the canvasses more austere and forbidding, and he would move even further away from the Modernist trends of his fellow composers. Arguably, he became less odd over time, though he was always very much his own person. He was rarely more compelling than here. One can hear the influence of Ligeti in the textures of these darkly enigmatic works, and Shostakovich in their emotional structure and outbursts of sardonic humor. There has not been a composer who put these and other influences together in quite the way eclectic, iconoclastic, Pehr Henrik Nordgren has done. The writing is virtuosic both in its impressive emotional sweep and in the demands on the orchestra and soloists. The folk instruments in the clarinet concerto—a jouhikko (a bowed harp), a kantele (a dulcimer), and an accordion—are a haunting counterpoint to the more massive orchestral discourse. There is never a dull moment, but perhaps more than a few perplexing ones. What does it all mean? One does not always know, but it's fascinating to listen.

[asin]B00G6OA9X2[/asin]
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: vandermolen on January 15, 2015, 09:14:58 PM
Quote from: Daverz on January 15, 2015, 02:13:41 PM
Some interesting comments by Ronald E. Grames in the last Fanfare about a disc with his Clarinet Concerto

[asin]B00G6OA9X2[/asin]

Thanks very much for posting this. I think that it is a brilliant description of Nordgren's symphonies. Certainly my attention was gripped throughout symphonies 7 and 8.

Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: snyprrr on January 16, 2015, 07:27:22 AM
whew- first I must still get the Sallinen Box... Nordgren really tempts... sooo expensive...

... what's the Big One here? Where do I start?...

(goes back to Amazon)
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: vandermolen on January 16, 2015, 11:33:28 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on January 16, 2015, 07:27:22 AM
whew- first I must still get the Sallinen Box... Nordgren really tempts... sooo expensive...

... what's the Big One here? Where do I start?...

(goes back to Amazon)

Try Symphony 7.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: Daverz on January 16, 2015, 12:18:51 PM
If you do downloads, Presto has lossless downloads for Alba CDs for $12.

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/advsearch.php?composer=nordgren&work=&performer=&medium=Download&label=alba&cat=
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: snyprrr on January 17, 2015, 08:02:33 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 16, 2015, 11:33:28 AM
Try Symphony 7.

Interesting, but I'm not too keen on mixing the Abstract and the Folk (almost got some Copland there?)k. The Clarinet Concerto's samples, however, really impressed me.

I'm thinking I'd probably rather like his '70s works...
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: North Star on January 17, 2015, 08:18:44 AM
I should probably hear more Nordgren. I think I've only heard Rock Score so far, live (Kangas conducting Oulu SO in 2011)

[asin]B0009JOPYY[/asin]
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: vandermolen on January 17, 2015, 09:28:30 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on January 17, 2015, 08:02:33 AM
Interesting, but I'm not too keen on mixing the Abstract and the Folk (almost got some Copland there?)k. The Clarinet Concerto's samples, however, really impressed me.

I'm thinking I'd probably rather like his '70s works...

Fair enough.  :)
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: snyprrr on January 17, 2015, 10:07:17 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 17, 2015, 09:28:30 AM
Fair enough.  :)

Do you have the Ondine disc with 4 and 5?
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: vandermolen on January 17, 2015, 10:57:20 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on January 17, 2015, 10:07:17 PM
Do you have the Ondine disc with 4 and 5?

Yes, must listen to it again.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: The new erato on January 18, 2015, 12:10:32 AM
Quote from: North Star on January 17, 2015, 08:18:44 AM
I should probably hear more Nordgren. I think I've only heard Rock Score so far, live (Kangas conducting Oulu SO in 2011)

[asin]B0009JOPYY[/asin]
My only exposure have been this, which I find very intriguing, som I've ordered the Alba disc with symphonies 7&8.

[asin]B004GHBQOW[/asin]
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: vandermolen on January 18, 2015, 01:37:54 AM
Quote from: The new erato on January 18, 2015, 12:10:32 AM
My only exposure have been this, which I find very intriguing, som I've ordered the Alba disc with symphonies 7&8.

[asin]B004GHBQOW[/asin]

Will be very interested to hear your views on the Alba disc, I'm listening to it now. The 7th starts in the spirit of Rautavaara but then moves off into a darker realm.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: The new erato on January 18, 2015, 01:41:25 AM
When it arrives, I will.....
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: snyprrr on September 22, 2015, 04:58:52 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 17, 2015, 10:57:20 PM
Yes, must listen to it again.

Time's up! Report due on Monday!!

Quote from: The new erato on January 18, 2015, 01:41:25 AM
When it arrives, I will.....

you too ;)
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: vandermolen on September 24, 2015, 12:33:57 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on September 22, 2015, 04:58:52 PM
Time's up! Report due on Monday!!



Very good Sir - as long as I can find the CD   ::)

I have no system for the 1000s of CDs - it is chaotic - a microcosm of my life.  ???
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: Wieland on September 25, 2015, 05:31:06 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on September 24, 2015, 12:33:57 AM
Very good Sir - as long as I can find the CD   ::)

I have no system for the 1000s of CDs - it is chaotic - a microcosm of my life.  ???

A good system helps a lot. I am storing my CDs countrywise, British symphonies, Finnish symphonies and alphabetically within each country. For me that system works very well. :)

Anyway, I am happy to see that there is a Nordgren thread here. I did one in another forum .... and was the only contributor. :(

Those last two string quartets I cherish a lot. And many symphonies as well. I believe I have all, but listened to most them only twice.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: vandermolen on September 25, 2015, 08:40:03 AM
Quote from: Wieland on September 25, 2015, 05:31:06 AM
A good system helps a lot. I am storing my CDs countrywise, British symphonies, Finnish symphonies and alphabetically within each country. For me that system works very well. :)

Anyway, I am happy to see that there is a Nordgren thread here. I did one in another forum .... and was the only contributor. :(

Those last two string quartets I cherish a lot. And many symphonies as well. I believe I have all, but listened to most them only twice.
Sounds like a good plan. Sometimes I've thought of organising them by record label, so that the EMI section would all be red and the DGG yellow etc. I recall a record shop (Imhoffs) in London in my youth that organised the LPs like that and I rather liked it.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: vandermolen on September 25, 2015, 08:51:13 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 17, 2015, 10:57:20 PM
Yes, must listen to it again.
Actually the CD has symphonies 3 and 5 on rather than 4 and 5. The conductor is Sakari Oramo who coincidentally I saw conduct Mahler's Third Symphony in London last night. I have ever seen him before. I had forgotten that I had started this thread, albeit confusing Nordgren with a different composer  ::).
My impressions of the music, which I enjoyed, if that is the right word are very much the same as in my initial post in this thread. It is very dark and sombre but my attention was held throughout. The 3rd Symphony has two movements for piano only and quite a 'jazzy' movement entitled 'defiance'. The music is resolutely bleak but not unapproachable. It reminded me a bit of Norgard and Petterrson. Mahler and Sibelius tend to be seen as polar opposites in their approach to the symphony but at timed Nordgren reminded me of both although his music does not sound like either. There is, I believe, a strong sense of nature in both scores. The Fifth symphony has a most haunting and moving passage after about 18 minutes which I found moving. So, the music has both an intellectual and emotional appeal as far as I am concerned.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: Wieland on September 25, 2015, 08:58:17 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on September 25, 2015, 08:40:03 AM
Sounds like a good plan. Sometimes I've thought of organising them by record label, so that the EMI section would all be red and the DGG yellow etc. I recall a record shop (Imhoffs) in London in my youth that organised the LPs like that and I rather liked it.
The problem with that system is that you really have to remember on which label it was. I often mix up whether something is on Chandos or Hyperion,  Ondine or Alba... The  advantage is of course that it looks orderly. But years ago a person collecting and reading books told me that you can discriminate the collector who just wants to impress from the one who really cares by whether the books are sorted by publisher or author. ;).
Anyway, I store my CDs without jewel cases (I have to since there are too many) in soft bags and boxes (like they still do in record stores with LPs) so I do not see the label.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: Wieland on September 25, 2015, 09:08:52 AM
Has anyone listened to this one, that was my first contact with Nordgren's symphonies.

[asin]B00004T0VQ[/asin]
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: vandermolen on September 25, 2015, 12:07:26 PM
Quote from: Wieland on September 25, 2015, 09:08:52 AM
Has anyone listened to this one, that was my first contact with Nordgren's symphonies.

[asin]B00004T0VQ[/asin]
That looks like a great disc and Symphony 4 sounds very interesting according to a review on Amazon. Unfortunately the CD is too expensive for me so I will stick to symphonies 3 and 5 for the time being.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: snyprrr on September 26, 2015, 08:05:14 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on September 25, 2015, 08:51:13 AM
Actually the CD has symphonies 3 and 5 on rather than 4 and 5. The conductor is Sakari Oramo who coincidentally I saw conduct Mahler's Third Symphony in London last night. I have ever seen him before. I had forgotten that I had started this thread, albeit confusing Nordgren with a different composer  ::).
My impressions of the music, which I enjoyed, if that is the right word are very much the same as in my initial post in this thread. It is very dark and sombre but my attention was held throughout. The 3rd Symphony has two movements for piano only and quite a 'jazzy' movement entitled 'defiance'. The music is resolutely bleak but not unapproachable. It reminded me a bit of Norgard and Petterrson. Mahler and Sibelius tend to be seen as polar opposites in their approach to the symphony but at timed Nordgren reminded me of both although his music does not sound like either. There is, I believe, a strong sense of nature in both scores. The Fifth symphony has a most haunting and moving passage after about 18 minutes which I found moving. So, the music has both an intellectual and emotional appeal as far as I am concerned.

You had me at bleak!
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: vandermolen on September 26, 2015, 11:23:38 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on September 26, 2015, 08:05:14 PM
You had me at bleak!
:)
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: snyprrr on November 01, 2015, 05:51:30 AM
s these mysterious, close harmonies,... very inward,... thinking... icy,... dark green...


yea,... Nordgren... most of your Usual Suspects should find him captivating... MI??
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: calyptorhynchus on December 01, 2016, 07:09:20 PM
I have been listening to the available string quartets: 4, 5, 10, 11

I find them very good (5 has two movements, with the first an Epilogue, beat that!)

I hope Ondine plans to record 1-3, 6-9
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: calyptorhynchus on December 01, 2016, 11:56:55 PM
Actually I sent a message to Ondine and they told me that Alba is thinking of recording the remaining ones.

Whoo-hoo.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: André on February 11, 2017, 09:49:52 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on September 25, 2015, 08:51:13 AM
Actually the CD has symphonies 3 and 5 on rather than 4 and 5. The conductor is Sakari Oramo who coincidentally I saw conduct Mahler's Third Symphony in London last night. I have ever seen him before. I had forgotten that I had started this thread, albeit confusing Nordgren with a different composer  ::).
My impressions of the music, which I enjoyed, if that is the right word are very much the same as in my initial post in this thread. It is very dark and sombre but my attention was held throughout. The 3rd Symphony has two movements for piano only and quite a 'jazzy' movement entitled 'defiance'. The music is resolutely bleak but not unapproachable. It reminded me a bit of Norgard and Petterrson. Mahler and Sibelius tend to be seen as polar opposites in their approach to the symphony but at timed Nordgren reminded me of both although his music does not sound like either. There is, I believe, a strong sense of nature in both scores. The Fifth symphony has a most haunting and moving passage after about 18 minutes which I found moving. So, the music has both an intellectual and emotional appeal as far as I am concerned.

I know I have something by Nordgren back home, but being far away at the moment, I just can't figure what. Anyhow, I have an internet connection, so I listened to the 3rd symphony on Youtube (Oramo). Powerful stuff, bleak soundscape, Pettersson-influenced (a big brownie point for that). I like the fact it doesn't swamp the listener with "statements", something I often think Norgärd does.

I'll try to find something to buy by Nordgren this year. A preliminary survey shows his discs to be pricey though.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: Turner on February 11, 2017, 10:24:10 PM
Quote from: André on February 11, 2017, 09:49:52 PM
..... A preliminary survey shows his discs to be pricey though.

Yes, a more systematic and ultimately inexpensive Nordgren Edition would certainly be very welcome.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: Rons_talking on March 19, 2017, 08:18:37 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 15, 2015, 12:23:20 PM
Have been listening to Symphony 7 (2003) having recently received this CD. It is a most extraordinary score and I have played it through several times over the last few days. To me it is a searching and visionary work, which starts out very much in the spirit of Rautavaara. It is a very dark work, with sombre episode interspersed with folk type songs which reminded me of a British sea shanty! Charles Ives also came to mind with the seemingly bizarre juxtapositions of dissonant and lyrical material. I am delighted to have discovered this remarkable score and have not even got on yet to Nordgren's last symphony, the No.8 of 2006.
[asin]B0032HKEHW[/asin]
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/pehr-henrik-nordgren-modernist-composer-who-incorporated-folk-music-into-his-work-and-relished-his-artistic-freedom-961316.html

i agree. I have noticed that Nordgren's post-Opus 100 works are more expressive in nature IMO. Symphony 7 really stands out as an outstanding work. Number 8 and the Oboe Concerto are also excellent...as are the late quartets. I'm glad I found his music on line.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: kyjo on October 11, 2020, 08:13:06 PM
I only started paying attention to this composer recently, and I'm very glad I did! His Symphony no. 8 (2006) turned out to be a stunning find for me:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41Fl%2BtTZJqL._SX425_.jpg)

In three movements entitled Minore - Intermezzo - Maggiore, this haunting, darkly atmospheric work sounds like nothing else I've heard before (though reference points may include Pettersson, Sallinen, and Schnittke). Nordgren's orchestration, in particular his use of bells, creates a hypnotic, dream-like atmosphere with disturbing undercurrents. Most remarkable of all is the finale, where Nordgren superimposes jaunty, folk-like material with the dark atmosphere of the previous movements in a way not dissimilar to Malcolm Arnold in the finale of his 7th Symphony with the Celtic folk band. I was most captivated by this work and will certainly be seeking out more of his stuff! He was quite prolific - 5 cello concerti, no less! - and his music has been quite well-recorded (but still rarely discussed, alas).
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: Scion7 on October 12, 2020, 01:49:07 AM
All I have are the two late quartets, which I like.  I suppose it is time to delve into some other material by him.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: Symphonic Addict on October 12, 2020, 01:26:57 PM
I've listened to all the symphonies, and as Kyle said, he also reminds me of Schnittke and Pettersson. There are some schizophrenic-like passages on them quite intriguing.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: André on October 12, 2020, 04:02:21 PM
I can recommend the Requiem. Not a masterpiece, but certainly worth hearing.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: J on October 13, 2020, 07:46:47 PM
Quote from: André on October 12, 2020, 04:02:21 PM
I can recommend the Requiem. Not a masterpiece, but certainly worth hearing.

Not aware Nordgren wrote a Requiem. 

Details please, - including info about a recording.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: Symphonic Addict on October 13, 2020, 07:49:13 PM
I couldn't find any information about a Requiem written by Nordgren. I think André meant a Requiem by Hans Eklund.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: André on October 14, 2020, 08:34:15 AM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on October 13, 2020, 07:49:13 PM
I couldn't find any information about a Requiem written by Nordgren. I think André meant a Requiem by Hans Eklund.

Yes, Eklund. Sorry ! :-\
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: vandermolen on November 24, 2022, 07:02:02 AM
I've come to conclusion that Pehr Henrik Nordgren is a great composer. His music is bleak and unsmiling but not without darkly moving passages. The CD 'Transient Moods' has been, almost continuously, on my CD player recently. There are moments of bizarre juxtaposition (folk-like songs followed by Charles Ives at his most discordant) but there is always an urgent need to communicate with his fellow human beings which I find both poignant and moving. I am always gripped listening to his music. The 7th Symphony is very special:
Nordgren.jpg
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: vandermolen on November 24, 2022, 07:07:23 AM
Sorry about the two images of the same CD. As you see I'm still struggling with the new format.  ::)
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: Alex Bozman on December 05, 2022, 12:59:50 PM
Sadly, this CD is no longer available, but I'm grateful to Vandermolen for highlighting the 7th Symphony, this recording is online. My previous knowledge of Nordgren was through the Finlandia Meet the Composer CD and later the 3rd and 5th symphonies disk alluded to in this thread, the 1st Symphony and Clarinet Concerto cd and one with 3 concertos and strings. The 3rd Symphony was striking, with the solo piano passages being distinctive, must re-visit the 5th, while the 1st has some interesting ideas, but it's not clicked as to how it all fits together for me yet. The paired concerto with the use of folk instruments is a very attractive piece though.

Returning to Nordgen's 7th Symphony, it is an amazing piece. Great orchestration, dance elements, what sounded Russian but apparently a polka hints of other composers in particular Shostakovich and at one point a Pettersson lullaby-type melody, all cohering into a well-balanced whole. Definitely my favourite 'discovery' of 2022.   
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: relm1 on December 05, 2022, 03:56:24 PM
Quote from: Alex Bozman on December 05, 2022, 12:59:50 PMSadly, this CD is no longer available, but I'm grateful to Vandermolen for highlighting the 7th Symphony, this recording is online. My previous knowledge of Nordgren was through the Finlandia Meet the Composer CD and later the 3rd and 5th symphonies disk alluded to in this thread, the 1st Symphony and Clarinet Concerto cd and one with 3 concertos and strings. The 3rd Symphony was striking, with the solo piano passages being distinctive, must re-visit the 5th, while the 1st has some interesting ideas, but it's not clicked as to how it all fits together for me yet. The paired concerto with the use of folk instruments is a very attractive piece though.

Returning to Nordgen's 7th Symphony, it is an amazing piece. Great orchestration, dance elements, what sounded Russian but apparently a polka hints of other composers in particular Shostakovich and at one point a Pettersson lullaby-type melody, all cohering into a well-balanced whole. Definitely my favourite 'discovery' of 2022.   

I have both this album of No. 7 and 8 on the transient moods album and also the excellent No. 3 and 5 on Ondine.  All are very fine, but I prefer the despairing No. 3 most.  Overall, a very fine composer well worth exploring.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: vandermolen on December 05, 2022, 10:33:58 PM
I have the Ondine CD featuring symphonies 3 and 5 as well. I will be returning to it having been so moved and impressed by the 'Transient Moods' CD.
Title: Re: Pehr Henrik Nordgren 1944-2008
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on December 06, 2022, 07:40:08 AM
Quote from: Alex Bozman on December 05, 2022, 12:59:50 PMSadly, this CD is no longer available.... 
I did find it available as a download at Prestom. for $10 for mP3 or $12 for FLAC (no booklet included though):  https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8036423--pehr-henrik-nordgren-transient-moods

PD