Pierre Boulez (1925-2016)

[CRCulver]

Sur Incises. I don't know how the true Boulez fans feel about various times when the composer fiddled with various scores, and I guess that my writing that indicates that my own fandom is somewhat at arm's length, but I find this an unalloyed success.

You know how a bon mot about a piece you like can sometimes alter your appreciation of it? I've never been able to listen to sur Incises since without recalling Samuel Andreyev's comment (in his Ferneyhough interview, IIRC) that this piece only has two kinds of material for its forty minutes: either quick driving rhythmic passages or more soupy, ambient music.

[Karl Henning]

You know how a bon mot about a piece you like can sometimes alter your appreciation of it? I've never been able to listen to sur Incises since without recalling Samuel Andeyev's comment (in his Ferneyhough interview, IIRC) that this piece only has two kinds of material for its forty minutes: either quick driving rhythmic passages or more soupy, ambient music.

I can hear the sneer in that remark, and I think I can promise that it will not color my hearing of the piece. (I'll put it to the test tomorrow.)

[CRCulver]

There was no sneer in Andreyev's remark. At least not to my ears. After all, Andreyev is sympathetic to high modernism. Moreover, Andreyev is not the only person to detect this feature of Boulez's music. I just came across this quotation by Jonathan Goldman (in Cagney's article on the early Grisey):

The fundamental dichotomy which obtains in Boulez's work [. . .] opposes pulsation to resonance. [. . .] Boulez famously distinguished between "smooth" and "striated" time. An alternation between a pulsed, rhythmic conception of musical discourse and another, in which musical time is undifferentiated and continuous, remains the key to Boulez's sound world.

So if the dichotomy in sur Incises is too plain to sustain interest over a forty minute work, that's a matter of taste, but a reasonable opinion.

[Karl Henning]

There was no sneer in Andreyev's remark. At least not to my ears. After all, Andreyev is sympathetic to high modernism. Moreover, Andreyev is not the only person to detect this feature of Boulez's music. I just came across this quotation by Jonathan Goldman (in Cagney's article on the early Grisey):

So if the dichotomy in sur Incises is too plain to sustain interest over a forty minute work, that's a matter of taste, but a reasonable opinion.

Good points.

[Mandryka]

There was no sneer in Andreyev's remark. At least not to my ears. After all, Andreyev is sympathetic to high modernism. Moreover, Andreyev is not the only person to detect this feature of Boulez's music. I just came across this quotation by Jonathan Goldman (in Cagney's article on the early Grisey):

So if the dichotomy in sur Incises is too plain to sustain interest over a forty minute work, that's a matter of taste, but a reasonable opinion.

Let's assume, just for the sake of argument, that Boulez's  distinction between smooth and striated time is equivalent to music with a pulse (or rhythm? - Goldman conflates the two) and music with no clear pulse/rhythm. Then isn't it inevitable that all music, at this level of abstraction, is made of passages of smooth and striated time?  I mean - what would the third option be?

If the idea is that in Boulez there's nothing more to the music than alternate passages of strongly and less strongly pulsated music, then that's a very strong claim - and a contentious one. Goldman says "the key". - deliberately vague!

[Karl Henning]

more soupy, ambient music [....]

This is what seemed like a sneer to me. A hostile listener might remark similarly about Le sacre du printemps, "there are fast bits, there are slow bits." One could say that it is poetic justice that Boulez, whose attitude was "any new music which I don't approve of is worthless," being the object of a not entirely dissimilar critique. At any rate, having now revisited Sur Incises, I can confirm that I like it very well, and I stay by the recommendation, though of course, not everyone is going to (nor ought to) like all the things I like. But that's what drives one's recommendations, of course.

[brewski]

So many choices to celebrate the birthday boy, but for now and new to me, this sparkling reading of Notations (1945, orch. 1980 and 1999), with Manfred Honeck and the Frankfurt Radio Symphony, recorded in 2015.

-Bruce

[Mandryka]

Nicolas Baldeyrou plays the solo version of Domaines.

[San Antone]

There is nothing anyone can say to change my opinion of Sur Incises - it is not only among my favorite works by Boulez, but it is among my favorite works written in the classical idiom from any period.

The instrumentation alone I find extremely pleasing and the textures Boulez creates are rich and beautiful.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Currently listening to/watching Sur Incises (youtube with Ensemble Intercontemporain).  Really enjoying it!

First time for me too.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

There is nothing anyone can say to change my opinion of Sur Incises - it is not only among my favorite works by Boulez, but it is among my favorite works written in the classical idiom from any period.

The instrumentation alone I find extremely pleasing and the textures Boulez creates are rich and beautiful.

I don't know his works but I really enjoyed the video that I referenced of this work (again, new to me).  Do you have a favorite recording/performance of it?

[(poco) Sforzando]

I don't know his works but I really enjoyed the video that I referenced of this work (again, new to me).  Do you have a favorite recording/performance of it?

I believe there is only one.

[San Antone]

I don't know his works but I really enjoyed the video that I referenced of this work (again, new to me).  Do you have a favorite recording/performance of it?

This is the one I listen to most often:



There is one other recording, with Daniel Barenboim.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

This is the one I listen to most often:



There is one other recording, with Daniel Barenboim.

Thanks.  I see that the top one is with the same ensemble that I listened to (and enjoyed) yesterday.    It looks like Boulez himself is conducting it?  By the way, how do you like the other works on it?

PD

[San Antone]

Thanks.  I see that the top one is with the same ensemble that I listened to (and enjoyed) yesterday.    It looks like Boulez himself is conducting it?  By the way, how do you like the other works on it?

PD

I generally enjoy all of Boulez's compositions, however, the other two works don't interest me as much as Sur Incises.  Messagesquisse because the color of all cellos and Anthèmes II because of the electronics.

[(poco) Sforzando]

I can't find the Barenboim. There is also a YouTube with Pintscher:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCQI6Wu3QxE&t=13s

I also heard Pintscher conduct Répons in New York about five years ago. He played the work twice, and reseated the audience so they'd have a different aural perspective. Very smart.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I can't find the Barenboim. There is also a YouTube with Pintscher:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCQI6Wu3QxE&t=13s

I also heard Pintscher conduct Répons in New York about five years ago. He played the work twice, and reseated the audience so they'd have a different aural perspective. Very smart.

Did a quick poking around and see that it's available as a download (PrestoC) and supposedly is available for purchase on iTunes...probably others.

If I understood it correctly, Barenboim has his own label (Peral Music).  Was it ever released on CD?  I'm not finding any listings on eBay.  Again, this was a quick search though.

I also found an upload on youtube (several actually) of Messagesquisse too.

[ritter]

Did a quick poking around and see that it's available as a download (PrestoC) and supposedly is available for purchase on iTunes...probably others.

If I understood it correctly, Barenboim has his own label (Peral Music).  Was it ever released on CD?  I'm not finding any listings on eBay.  Again, this was a quick search though.

I also found an upload on youtube (several actually) of Messagesquisse too.

AFAIK, Barenboim's Peral label does not produce physical media.

I'm so glad you're finding things to enjoy in Boulez's music, PD. He's one of my all-time favourite composers and conductors.

If you liked Sur incises, you definitely should give Répons a try (on video preferably, because there's a strong spatial element to that work which with images can at least be grasped, if not really experienced).

[Pohjolas Daughter]

AFAIK, Barenboim's Peral label does not produce physical media.

I'm so glad you're finding things to enjoy in Boulez's music, PD. He's one of my all-time favourite composers and conductors.

If you liked Sur incises, you definitely should give Répons a try (on video preferably, because there's a strong spatial element to that work which with images can at least be grasped, if not really experienced).

Is there a particular performance that you like of Répons?  I can try and see whether or not I can borrow it through my library...if not, then maybe on yt?

[ritter]

Is there a particular performance that you like of Répons?  I can try and see whether or not I can borrow it through my library...if not, then maybe on yt?

There's only one "official" recording of the work, on CD:



On YT, I'd say tour best bet is the recent performance with the Ensemble Intercontemporain conducted by Matthias Pintscher (at the Paris Philarmonie):

The video quality of the ones conducted by the composer himself is usually (given their age) relatively poor, and the most recent one (from Lucerne in 2010) is of excerpts only. There's one magical one of a performance in the unlikely setting of an abandoned quarry near Avignon in 1988, but it seems not to be on YT.