Is he a vampire? He sure sucks the life out of any piece he composes.
** I ment conduct :-*
I really don't know how to respond to this, but as a mutual Mozart admirer, I would encourage a listen to of his symphony cycle. For me, I generally don't consider Bohm essential, in the sense that I can usually find what he brings to a piece in someone else.
I have his symphonies 35, 36, 38, 39, 40, and 41 and I find them soo incredibly unpassionate and boring. If he was the only one to compose Mozart, I couldnt be a Mozart fan. I know he is an enormous Mozart man but really a little tempo won't kill anyone!
I have thid dvd because I love Kiri te Kanawa
http://youtube.com/watch?v=er8-xUPhn-8
but its soo slow! Specially the part with sussana and cherubino when the say the doors are locked! There is no sense of panic at all.
Quote from: Mozart on May 20, 2007, 08:32:59 PM
I have his symphonies 35, 36, 38, 39, 40, and 41 and I find them soo incredibly unpassionate and boring. If he was the only one to compose Mozart, I couldnt be a Mozart fan. I know he is an enormous Mozart man but really a little tempo won't kill anyone!
The late are a tad dry, but he did a nice job with some of the earlier ones. (6, 11, 21)
Quote from: Steve on May 20, 2007, 08:36:31 PM
The late are a tad dry, but he did a nice job with some of the earlier ones. (6, 11, 21)
Symphony 6 11 and 21?
Mozart (aka MM), Karl Böhm is THE conductor for Richard Strauss' operas, and he is a great Wagnerian too.
But you're right - he is best avoided in most other things! ;D
And for Mozart - you'd really ought to go HIP on that one ->>>> HIP Mozart (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,232.0.html).
Those oldtimers just don't do exciting Mozart (except for Szell)
Q
Quote from: Mozart on May 20, 2007, 06:59:24 PM
Is he a vampire? He sure sucks the life out of any piece he composes.
He "composes"???
What the hell does that mean? Did you have too much to drink tonight> Or maybe you are lacking some sleep?
The last time I looked he was a world famous maestro, with very few compositions to his credit.
Quote from: Mozart on May 20, 2007, 08:32:59 PM
I have his symphonies 35, 36, 38, 39, 40, and 41 and I find them soo incredibly unpassionate and boring. If he was the only one to compose Mozart, I couldnt be a Mozart fan. I know he is an enormous Mozart man but really a little tempo won't kill anyone!
I have to say that I love Bohm's Mozart; his Requiem, Clarinet Concerto and Concerto for Flute and Harpsichord are treasured.
QuoteMozart
Is he a vampire? He sure sucks the life out of any piece he composes.
It is a strange opinion. I admire Karl Böhm. In special in opera, with his superb recordings of Cosi fan tutte (Schwarzkopf and Ludwig), the Ring and Tristan (Windgassen, Nilsson), Daphne (with Güden and Wunderlich), Die Frau ohne Schatten (Nilsson, Rysanek), Ariadne auf Naxos (Della Casa, Seefried) and Wozzeck (Fischer Dieskau, Lear).
And also his version made in thefifties, mono, of Schubert's 5th and 8th Symphonies (VPO), Brahms 3rd (VPO) and later, in stereo, his sublime interpretation of Bruckner's 7th.
His versions have life, but, regarding the opera he was one of those conductors (like Keilberth, Knappertsbusch, or in Italy Serafin or in Russia Nebolssine or Khaikin) that never imposed himself to the singers. He gave them the most beautiful support but with him we never feel that we are listening to a Symphony with voices (in this he was the opposite of conductors such as Toscanini, Giulini, Karajan).
i've never heard any of his compositions ;)
the bohm/schubert dg box is fine.
dj
My favorite Elektra Rysanek, Varnay, Ligendza, Fischer-Dieskau, Beirer, Bohme, Greindl; and Salome (available in June on DVD) Teresa Stratas, Astrid Varnay, Hanna Schwarz, Bernd Weikl, Wieslav Ochma - - Karl Bohm Wiener Philharmoniker
~
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51GC1Z083QL._AA240_.jpg)(http://www.unitel.de/unitel_homepage/unitel/upix/images/s30b16.jpg)
(http://www.unitel.de/unitel_homepage/unitel/upix/images/s135.jpg)
"I suffer no compromises in music. I caused a good deal of mischief in my life - but in my music, I was always honest, always upright." - Karl Böhm in July 1981, a few weeks before his death.
Quote from: Que on May 20, 2007, 09:08:41 PM
Mozart (aka MM), Karl Böhm is THE conductor for Richard Strauss' operas, and he is a great Wagnerian too.
But you're right - he is best avoided in most other things! ;D
And for Mozart - you'd really ought to go HIP on that one ->>>> HIP Mozart (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,232.0.html).
Those oldtimers just don't do exciting Mozart (except for Szell)
Q
hahha don't get me started on Furtwangler's Don Giovanni.
Dooooooonnnnnn Giooooooooooovaaaaannnnnniiiiiiiiii
AAAAAAAAAAAAA Ceeeeeeeeennaaaaaarrrrr teeeeeecccooooo
Quote from: Mozart on May 20, 2007, 08:39:30 PM
Symphony 6 11 and 21?
Yes, those were the one's I was referring to.
Quote from: Steve on May 21, 2007, 12:58:17 PM
Yes, those were the one's I was referring to.
Seems like an odd batch to record!
I suggest you listen to his Beethoven symphonies from the early seventies.
I was just about to mention those.
Some of his Bruckner recordings ain't half bad either. His 8th with the Zürich Tonhalle, for instance.
Quote from: Choo Choo on May 22, 2007, 10:55:40 AM
Some of his Bruckner recordings ain't half bad either. His 8th with the Zürich Tonhalle, for instance.
His 1973 VPO 4th is for the ages.
Radio 3 made his Bruckner 7 the best recording! I am not utterely convinced, though I don't own it so will revisit it.
Almost bought his Beethoven Ninth (from the early 70's) but passed.
But I do love his majestic Bruckner Fourth from the same period, even if I think the HVK version from a few years before has a better scherzo.
Quote from: Michel on May 22, 2007, 11:41:20 AM
Radio 3 made his Bruckner 7 the best recording! I am not utterely convinced, though I don't own it so will revisit it.
No, I'm not either. I prefer his earlier '43 recording (also with the VPO.) But then nowadays I'd also choose his '36 Dresden #4 over the (still superb) '73 VPO to which O Mensch alludes. These are just personal preferences - and if nothing else, do rather undermine the idea that there's something essentially
deficient about the guy's conducting.
His LvB
Pastoral (VPO) is a thing of beauty, not to be missed.
Quote from: Choo Choo on May 22, 2007, 12:23:14 PM
His LvB Pastoral (VPO) is a thing of beauty, not to be missed.
That one, on the other hand, I find way too square.
Quote from: Mozart on May 21, 2007, 12:59:18 PM
Seems like an odd batch to record!
Between 1960 and 1969 he recorded all the symphonies for DG...so, not odd at all.
Sarge
Quote from: Michel on May 21, 2007, 10:46:40 PM
I suggest you listen to his Beethoven symphonies from the early seventies.
His 3 shorts and a long are 3 long and...well maybe the 4th never ends!
I think he is overrated myself, but somehow others love him :-\
Almost everything he did that people say are infallible, like Mozart, Schubert, Wagner, I enjoy almost every other recording I have more. His Bruckner 4th is not bad, but hey I have never had a Bruckner 4th that is less than great. His Beethoven is unlistenable, from the same period I much prefer Karajan.
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 22, 2007, 05:10:36 PM
His Beethoven is unlistenable
No, it's
old-fashioned. Not the same thing at all.
Quote from: Choo Choo on May 22, 2007, 05:13:36 PM
No, it's old-fashioned. Not the same thing at all.
I dont think this is what Beethoven had in mind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r32QPNdopVg
Quote from: Choo Choo on May 22, 2007, 05:13:36 PM
No, it's old-fashioned. Not the same thing at all.
Old fashioned? So is Klemperer, but Klemper's has grandeur and power, with impeccably balanced woodwinds and pounding timpani. Every phrase is carefully juxtaposed against the others to achieve a degree of contrast that Bohm never even comes close. And his Mozart 35-41 symphonies - some say the best out there, aren't even as good as Fricsay's from around the same time with the same BPO. Bohm is such a bore, somewhere between a Colin Davis on a bad day and Claudio Abbado.
I once saw a video of Böhm leading Tristan und Isolde with a French orchestra and Birgit Nilsson as Isolde--magnificent! And I love his 1970s Missa Solemnis with the Margaret Price, Christa Ludwig, Wiecsław Ochmann, Martti Talvela, and the Vienna Philharmonic. His Mozart is a little heavy for my taste, but his Schubert is lovely. He's not a heaven-storming conductor, but all the recordings I've heard have been solid and competent, and some even inspired.
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 22, 2007, 05:22:11 PM
Old fashioned? So is Klemperer, but Klemper's has grandeur and power, with impeccably balanced woodwinds and pounding timpani. Every phrase is carefully juxtaposed against the others to achieve a degree of contrast that Bohm never even comes close. And his Mozart 35-41 symphonies - some say the best out there, aren't even as good as Fricsay's from around the same time with the same BPO. Bohm is such a bore, somewhere between a Colin Davis on a bad day and Claudio Abbado.
No no - you still don't get the sense of
spaciousness. It's a Saxon thing.
I was listening to his Dresden Bruckner #5 earlier today, and it's a voice from another age. If you're used to modern concert performances, yes, you'll hate it.
Quote from: Danny on May 22, 2007, 11:51:18 AM
Almost bought his Beethoven Ninth (from the early 70's) but passed.
His 9th is the first classical purchase I ever made. The LPs came in a box with a book which was a novelty for me at that time. Then I dropped the ball for almost a decade before I got more seriously into classical.
Quote from: Choo Choo on May 22, 2007, 05:44:30 PM
I was listening to his Dresden Bruckner #5 earlier today, and it's a voice from another age. If you're used to modern concert performances, yes, you'll hate it.
The greatest Bruckner 5th I have on CD is Furtwangler with the BPO on EMI. No one conducts this work like Furtwangler. The reading is at times frightening, at times serene, and always propulsive. So I don't think I am partial towards modern readings.
Quote from: jochanaan on May 22, 2007, 05:33:54 PM
His Mozart is a little heavy for my taste, but his Schubert is lovely. He's not a heaven-storming conductor, but all the recordings I've heard have been solid and competent, and some even inspired.
Yes, he is very professional, very competent, but I never get the sense he is a GREAT conductor. Furtwangler was great, Klemperer was great, Bernstein was great, Bohm was not.
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 22, 2007, 06:10:56 PM
The greatest Bruckner 5th I have on CD is Furtwangler with the BPO on EMI. No one conducts this work like Furtwangler. The reading is at times frightening, at times serene, and always propulsive. So I don't think I am partial towards modern readings.
Yes, he is very professional, very competent, but I never get the sense he is a GREAT conductor. Furtwangler was great, Klemperer was great, Bernstein was great, Bohm was not.
I'm not trying to argue for Böhm's "greatness". Not only would I not want to try and define that, I don't really consider it relevant to my listening pleasure. Many of my favourite recordings are by conductors who don't conventionally wear the mantle of "greatness" - Konwitschny, for example: another one who maybe doesn't stamp his personality all over the music - and sometimes that's no bad thing. If you like your Beethoven symphonies to sound hectic and intense, then by all means go for e.g. Kleiber/VPO. If sometimes you'd prefer something a bit more spacious, there's Böhm, or Konwitschny, or a half a dozen others I could name.
The original proposition suggested that Böhm was somehow incompetent on the rostrum, and I think there is ample evidence to the contrary.
I agree with you about the Furtwängler Bruckner #5. An indispensable recording. I could also name you about 20 other recordings which I also greatly esteem. Some are highly individual, and some aren't.
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8pgz-J4lcts/0.jpg)
Came across this shot and thought it kind of cool. Böhm the rock star!
Back in the 80s I got a cassette from a library that I think had Bohm in the Mozart symphonies 34,26 and 27. I liked it.
Odd. I'm not familiar with his Mozart but his Wagner is electrifying--easily the most exciting, dramatic and thrilling versions of the Ring and Tristan & Isolde I've heard, and also an excellent Meistersinger.
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 22, 2007, 06:10:56 PM
Yes, he is very professional, very competent, but I never get the sense he is a GREAT conductor. Furtwangler was great, Klemperer was great, Bernstein was great, Bohm was not.
Echoing the previous post: he indeed was a real
great conductor - in Wagner and Richard Strauss operas....not the main stream stuff like Bruckner, Brahms, Schubert or Mozart (opera).
Q