Luigi Boccherini (1743-1805) - another outstanding Italian composer w/o a thread, but one who has peaked some interest lately; now, as I remember we did have a rather lengthy discussion dedicated to him in the old forum, so hopefully a new thread will be of interest, too! :D
Luigi Boccherini was born in Lucca in 1743 (pretty much between the birth dates of Haydn & Mozart); he became a virtuoso on the cello travelling early in his career (even as a teenager) throughout much of western/central Europe, and ending up in Spain. A short but excellent biography can be found HERE (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2002/Oct02/Boccherini.htm).
He started to compose in his late teens; first works were String Trios; as part of a professionally performing 'quartet', Boccherini wrote his first String Quartets in 1761 when he was not yet 20 y/o - Haydn apparently studied these works and used them as 'models' for some of his own early compositions in this genre, raising the question of 'who' was the father of the early classical SQ?
Boccherini was an amazingly prolific composer, esp. of chamber works of all combinations; Yves Gerard is responsible for cataloging his works, which are thus preceded by the letter 'G.' - a well organized catalog is located HERE (http://www.uquebec.ca/musique/catal/boccherini/bocl.html#Oeuvre) with a listing of well over 500 G. compositions; just as an example, he wrote over 90 String Quartets and more than 150 String Quintets!
Last year, I was able to obtain from an interlibrary loan, the book Luigi Boccherini: His Life and Work (1965) by Germaine de Rothschild, and likely put some posts in the thread on the old forum - worth a search if interested in this composer - his life ended rather sadly w/ him in near poverty and after the loss of several wives & daughters.
Tonight, I'll take a look at my LB collection, probably have over 3 dozen discs - plenty of wonderful music; but for now please make comments & recommendations - :)
(http://www.uquebec.ca/musique/catal/boccherini/bocl.jpg)
Well, just getting back online for the evening - thought that I'd have a dozen posts by now for 'ole Luigi! ;) ;D
So, I'll start off w/ some recommendations w/ an emphasis on chamber works, my favorite genre of Boccherini:
String Quintets, Op. 56 & 57 w/ Patrick Cohen & Quatuor Mosaiques - this is a 2-CD set (one of those CDs was discussed in the 'listening thread' today w/ different cover art) - excellent bargain & performances.
Cello Sonatas & Fugues w/ Anner Bylsma, Kenneth Slowik, & Bov van Asperen - cover art showing the composer (use to be Gurn's avatar!).
Guitar Quintets w/ Pepe Romero & Acad St. Martin in the Fields Cham Ensemble - these are guitar transcriptions of 'String Quintets' - nice if you into chamber guitar and shows the 'Spanish' influences on LB's composing!
Cello Concertos - 7 CD box of multiple composers, but a great bargain! Three discs are Boccherini's cello concertos, well reviewed; of course, there are plenty of other performances available of these works!
Well, just starter suggestions - :D
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I am quite familiar with his symphonies (which are unambitious and enjoyable) and cello concerti (due to the scant amount of music in this field, essential, but it's great music as well), but am not so familiar with the quartets. Are there any stand out recordings?
From the range of music I have heard by him, he is one of the leading figures of the period, with an above average gift for melody and reasonably complex/engaging writing. His music for guitar especially seems to find him at his best.
Quote from: Lethe on December 09, 2008, 04:01:18 PM
I am quite familiar with his symphonies (which are unambitious and enjoyable) and cello concerti (due to the scant amount of music in this field, essential, but it's great music as well), but am not so familiar with the quartets. Are there any stand out recordings?
From the range of music I have heard by him, he is one of the leading figures of the period, with an above average gift for melody and reasonably complex/engaging writing. His music for guitar especially seems to find him at his best.
Hello
Sara - although I probably have about 4 discs of
Boccherini's Symphonies, I still enjoy his chamber works much more; of course, the exception for orchestral works are the
Cello Concertos; I probably have a number of interpretations (Hugh on Naxos; du Pre in some), but the Brilliant Box shown in the previous post has 3 CDs of all 12 of his works in this format - excellent review on MusicWeb (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/may04/cello_Brilliant.htm); plus for the cost of admission, the same works by CPE Bach, Haydn, & Leo are included - I've 'pushed' this box set in the listening thread but w/o much response; however, if you like the cello, this is a great bargain!
Although his
Quartet & Quintet output number about 250 TOTAL WORKS(!), the Quintets seemed to have received the most attention (and, as mentioned the
Guitar Quintets are transcriptions and delightful!) - actually, I have only 2 discs of the
Quartets at the moment; one disc is from the fabulous Capriccio 10-CD box set w/ SQs (G 177, 194, 213, & 248) - I'll comment more on this great bargain (about $35 on the Amazon Marketplace) unless
Harry beats me to the discussion! ;)
But, another fascinating set is from CPO -
String Quartets, Op. 2, Nos. 1-6 w/ Sonare Quartett - these are really of 'historic' interest alluded to in the opening post; these were written in 1761 (he was still a teenager and in a travelling 'professional' string quartet - maybe the FIRST in existence) - Haydn was pretty much doing his early divertimenti, so Boccherini's works here were likely the beginning of this 'classical' genre - of course, many may argue, but Luigi was there @ the beginning! Dave :)
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Scarily under-recorded! The CPO sounds like a must-buy, and checking Amazon, Naxos seems to have decently recorded a few of the later ones.
I'm also very partial to Boccherini's chamber works. In addition to Dave's recommendations, I would add that whenever you can find any disks by Ensemble 415, such as this one:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41HA8T174ML._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
you should pick them up. In addition, I have the String Sextets Op 23, and one called "The Last String Trios". They are all first class. Some other nice choices are the Op 14 string trios, the Op 5 sonatas for violin and fortepiano (the first of their kind written specifically for fortepiano rather than harpsichord (1766)), and especially the piano quintets. A particularly nice recording of these is done by the Quatuor Mosaiques with Cohen on fortepiano. IIRC, they are adaptations of the guitar quintets, done by Boccherini himself. I am only starting in on the quartets and quintets. Collecting them all will be a major accomplishment! :)
8)
----------------
Listening to:
Wolfgang Schneiderhan (Violin) / Wilhelm Kempff (Piano) - Bia 165 Op 12 Piano & Violin sonatas (3) #1 in D 1st mvmt - Allegro con brio
I'm new to his music and interested to hear more, so I ordered this a couple of weeks ago:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41AH2NH4B1L._SL160_.jpg)
Looking forward to receiving it :)
Quote from: Solitary Wanderer on December 09, 2008, 05:34:26 PM
I'm new to his music and interested to hear more, so I ordered this a couple of weeks ago:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41AH2NH4B1L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Looking forward to receiving it :)
Chris - just out of curiosity, I checked my 4-5 discs of
String Quintets, and don't own the ones on this CD you ordered (and by a favorite group of mine!) - of course w/ over 150 quintets composed by
LB, many discs would be needed to complete that group of works - please let us know your impressions (the reviews by the Amazonians were outstanding) - might need to add yet another to my list! :)
BTW, for those not familiar w/
Boccherini's String Quintets, he typically used two cellos giving a much more deeper & mellow sound at least to my ears - really worth listening to some of these works if you like the cello - :D
A perfect Boccherini Sampler for $35 on the Amazon Marketplace - 10 CDs total - an absolute steal! ;D
Like many Baroque & Classical music composers, there is SO MUCH available that choices for sampling their music is not easy; however, for LB, there is an inexpensive option that will introduce you to many aspects of his compositions, and at a price of less than $4 per disc!
Shown below is a box set (actually 10 discs in separate jewel boxes) worth consideration if you want a cheap & varied introduction of Luigi's music - check MusicWeb HERE (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2005/Aug05/Boccherini_CC49463.htm) for a listing of the works included and a generally superlative review; these discs include String Sextets, String Quartets, String Quintets, Oboe Quintets, Divertimenti, Symphonies, and Guitar Quintets, et al - nearly all of these are excellent performances; the main reservation are the Guitar Quintets, could be better (and hence my recommendation of the bargain 2-CD set of Pepe Romero in an earlier post) - if you're willing to 'jump in' on this composer, this is indeed a GOOD start - :)
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2005/Aug05/Boccherini_box_49463.jpg)
Well, since little action is being seen in this thread, let me add a 'stimulus package':
Cello Quintets w/ Lester & the Vanbrugh Quartet; 3 on the disc, G275, G348, & G351.
Cello Quintets - 2 w/ the same performers above; 4 included, G310, G349, G350, & G353.
Flute Quintets, Op. 19 w/ Auser Musici (Carlo Ipata, flute); G425 through G430.
Flute Quintets, Op. 55 w/ Auryn Quartett (Michael Faust, flute); G431 through G436.
Just including the Gerard numbers since compilations often mix these works together, so check your discs - :D
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As a result of my recent Hornblower/Master and Commander viewing session, I was interested in some of the music played during M&C so I had a look at the obligatory soundtrack which looked too 'bitsy' for my taste. However my Amazon search also threw up this title whose samples I enjoyed:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51tSOUFaXDL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
This looks like a preferable option [there's two volumes in the series], but I don't particularly like compilations so I investigated the featured composers like Boccherini, Locatelli and Leclair. There's alot of very interesting looking titles by these composers.
So I bought the Boccherini string quintets disc I mentioned in an earlier post because it was recommended in my of my classical music guides.
It arrived yesterday so I'm on my second listen. It's elegant, sophisticated and utterly charming music of joy and good spirit.
The minuetto from the Quintet in E major is an instantly recognizable famous piece.
I'm enjoying this late baroque era music at the moment, especially as background music as it sets a perfectly relaxed, yet alert tone to the room.
I will explore more :)
Quote from: Solitary Wanderer on December 11, 2008, 11:34:59 AM
As a result of my recent Hornblower/Master and Commander viewing session, I was interested in some of the music played during M&C
The Boccherini used in M&C is an arrangement of a movement of the Quintet for 2 Violins, Viola and 2 Cellos in C major, Op. 30 no 6/G 324 "Musica notturna di Madrid".
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=1232&name_role1=1&genre=78&bcorder=19&comp_id=58856
There's also a recording in the big Capriccio Boccherini box.
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//CC49463.htm
My favorite is the Boccherini Quartet on Ensayo, but I haven't heard the Karajan. :D
Quote from: Solitary Wanderer on December 11, 2008, 11:34:59 AM
........So I bought the Boccherini string quintets disc I mentioned in an earlier post because it was recommended in my of my classical music guides.
It arrived yesterday so I'm on my second listen. It's elegant, sophisticated and utterly charming music of joy and good spirit........
Chris - thanks for your comments - the
bolded statement above is an oft description of the compositions of
Boccherini - glad that you're enjoying exploring his music - please reply back your discoveries - Dave :)
Well, for those who would like to explore the chamber works written by Boccherini for keyboard, there are plenty of options depending on 'how many' instruments in the ensemble are wanted?
This afternoon I was listening to the Tactus recording below - basically Fortepiano/Violin Sonatas w/ Franco Angeleri & Enrico Gatti - these works were written in 1768 when Luigi was visiting London in his mid-20s - these works can be considered the 'prototype' of the many future sonatas for these two instruments to appear in later years; Boccherini did not write any more of these 2-instrument works (although from the Gerard catalog, a number of variations were offered by others - I have no experience w/ the latter).
Fortunately, Boccherini wrote many other keyboard works for a larger grouping of instruments; below are just couple of more considerations for those interested - :)
NOTE: The Brilliant Box (4-CDs) includes the 3 works on one of the discs in the Astree 2-CD set; these are on the fortepiano! :D
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/434829840_4pdv7-M.jpg)
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Hi everyone
Thanks for the interesting posts on Boccherini.
I'm not a huge Boccherini fan, and it would be daring to pair with anyone more knowledgeable in his works, but I would just like to leave a suggestion here.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61JTY209AWL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Le Concert des Nations, Jordi Savall (dir.)
Boccherini: Fandango, Sinfonie & La Musica Notturna di Madrid
Jordi Savall's album has been an enjoyable companion these last years and I would strongly suggest it to anyone interested in Boccherini's music.
And since SonicMan mentioned his keyboard pieces, let's not forget the arrangements for two harpsichords of the Fandango (from Quintetto IV in D major), recorded by Andreas Staier (with Christine Schornsheim) and William Christie (with Christophe Rousset)
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Andreas Staier
Soler, et alii: Variaciones del Fandango Español
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51KjXdFzz-L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
William Christie & Christophe Rousset
Boccherini: Quatuors pour deux clavecins; Fandango
Quote from: Captain Flint on December 12, 2008, 03:06:59 PM
Hi everyone
Thanks for the interesting posts on Boccherini.
I'm not a huge Boccherini fan, and it would be daring to pair with anyone more knowledgeable in his works, but I would just like to leave a suggestion here.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61JTY209AWL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Le Concert des Nations, Jordi Savall (dir.)
Boccherini: Fandango, Sinfonie & La Musica Notturna di Madrid............
Captain Flint - hey, thanks for the post & the recommendations - I'm a HUGE
Jordi Savall fan and own many of his recordings (and even saw him in concert many years ago) - the CD shown includes a combination of quintets & symphonies, an ideal introduction to Boccherini and for those who may just want a few discs of his music, a good choice!
As mentioned in one my previous posts, look carefully at what is included on the discs that you own & on those you might be planning to purchase - check out those Gerard numbers, quite easy to duplicate recordings, e.g. I already own the Savall recordings on other CDs but would still love to hear Jordi's interpretations! :D
Now, I do not have any of his 'double' keyboard works @ the moment, so these would certainly be of interest - thanks again & enjoy the GMG Forum! :)
I discovered Boccherini a while ago. It is a mixture of classical and Spanish music, very surprising and refreshing indeed :)
However, I stumbled upon a fact that puzzles me.
Here is Boccherini's "Sinfonia op. 12 N°4 in D minor for two oboes, two horns, strings and continuo: Allegro assai con moto":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T46-P...D8110B&index=2
And here is Gluck's "Danza degli spettri e delle furie - Dance of the spectres and the furies: Allegro non troppo":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcwiL7yf3Hw
Don't you have the impression that they sound... well... identical? To make things even more interesting, there is a record which features BOTH pieces:
http://www.andante.com/naive/catalog...iProductID=836
Does anyone have any idea why those pieces by two different composers sound practically the same? Gluck lived in the same period as Boccherini - maybe they contacted each other and Gluck used it with permission?
Quote from: Ciel_Rouge on April 13, 2009, 12:26:46 PM
I discovered Boccherini a while ago. It is a mixture of classical and Spanish music, very surprising and refreshing indeed :)
However, I stumbled upon a fact that puzzles me.
Please check your urls, the 1st and the last are incorrect!
I can confirm that the music in the 2nd sample is from Gluck's "Don Juan", can't imagine Boccherini writing something like that.
Q
Haydn left his last quartet unfinished in 1803.
Boccherini left his last quartet unfinished in 1804!
His quartet output is head to head with Haydn all the way from 1762-1804! Methinks Haydn's been getting all the credit.
Not having yet heard any Boccherini quartets, and questioning myself why I'm just not partial to Haydn quartets after Op.20, and offering that I'm a "minor key" kind of guy in this rep...is Bocch. prone to the minor key? I remember the one Haydn that I really liked was Op.20, in f minor. I'm wondering if that was the Bocch. influence?
At least, I see that he chooses minor keys often, but does he go for "plagent melancoly"? Maybe it's that Haydn seems to "formal" to me?
Quote from: snyprrr on April 13, 2009, 06:42:00 PM
Haydn left his last quartet unfinished in 1803.
Boccherini left his last quartet unfinished in 1804!
His quartet output is head to head with Haydn all the way from 1762-1804! Methinks Haydn's been getting all the credit.
Not having yet heard any Boccherini quartets, and questioning myself why I'm just not partial to Haydn quartets after Op.20, and offering that I'm a "minor key" kind of guy in this rep...is Bocch. prone to the minor key?
Not really. Out of about 40 string quartets that I'm aware of, only 8 are in a minor key.
Quote from: snyprrr on April 13, 2009, 06:42:00 PM
Haydn left his last quartet unfinished in 1803.
Boccherini left his last quartet unfinished in 1804!
His quartet output is head to head with Haydn all the way from 1762-1804! Methinks Haydn's been getting all the credit.
Actually,
Don has understated the number of
String Quartets written by Boccherini - if you return to my opening post, and the link to the catalog mentioned, Luigi wrote approximately 100
String Quartets, depending on how you want to count the last ones in that catalog - these were written over a 40+ yr period (1761-1804) - from my estimation in reviewing this catalog, about 20% of these works were composed in minor keys.
Although I own a LOT of Boccherini, I'm amazed at 'how few' of his SQs I have in my collection - must look for some more, and I hope that others will make some recommendations (of course, assuming that more recordings are available?) - :D
I was looking over the list, and, check this out:
After Haydn's single Op.42 (d) quartet, Bocch. "replies" with this strange concept:
Op.39 (A)
Op.41 (c, C)
Op.42 (A, C)
Op.43 (A, A)
What do you make of that?
My appetite to hear some nice, mature (or otherwise) quartets by Bocch. is really being stoked! I really just haven't seen any major series. Especially the later quartets.
Quote from: snyprrr on April 16, 2009, 12:04:01 AM
I was looking over the list, and, check this out:
After Haydn's single Op.42 (d) quartet, Bocch. "replies" with this strange concept:
Op.39 (A) Op.41 (c, C) Op.42 (A, C) Op.43 (A, A) - What do you make of that?
Yes, I noticed that also - he was composing these SQs in 'batches of 6', then this group of 1 & 2 works; I was checking the dates of these compositions mentioned - 1787 to 1790; I believe he lost a major Spanish sponsor in the mid-1780s and came on harder times, perhaps he was just struggling to make some money? After the Op. 43 works, he returned to writing the SQs in groups of 6 - I'm sure that book I read a while back provided some explanatory reasons, but it was a library loan and I cannot recall the details.
However, just checking on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Dpopular&field-keywords=boccherini+string+quartets&x=16&y=23), there seems to be a lot of
String Quartet offerings; currently, I own
Op. 2, Nos. 1-6 SQs w/ Sonare Quartett on CPO - these are the ones written in 1761 and are of historic importance along side those written by the young Haydn; and just another disc w/ the Petersen Quartett on Capriccio of a mixture of SQs, i.e. one each from
Op. 15, 24, 39, & 64 - recommendations for more from all, please - :D
The complete symphony set on CPO is a delight, with excellent playing, conducting, and recording. These make a really interesting and entertaining alternative to the classical symphonic model as practiced by Haydn and Mozart.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/510gro5slvL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Quote from: snyprrr on April 13, 2009, 06:42:00 PM
At least, I see that he chooses minor keys often, but does he go for "plagent melancoly"? Maybe it's that Haydn seems to "formal" to me?
Quote from: Bulldog on April 13, 2009, 06:59:29 PM
Not really. Out of about 40 string quartets that I'm aware of, only 8 are in a minor key.
Well, his Oboe Quintets op. 55 Nos. 5 & 6 are both in G major but their bittersweet melancholia is very
minor-ish. Worth checking it out.
Well, I'm listening to B's Op.58 SQs 1-6 (CPO/Revolutionary Drawing Room), my first real listen to B, and I'm not impressed. Maybe NO "classical" era music impresses me on first listen, but I know that that's not true.
I believe this is B's last big opus of SQs before his unfinished two of 1804 (huh, him AND Haydn!), though you mention Op.64. Either way, it certainly is "late" B, so it was quite in line with what I was looking for, but I just can't really find that memorable quality going on here. There is some mention in the notes that this was "just" something to give to publishers, but otherwise I find it hard to believe that B was this...mm...boring. Honestly, tastes just like chicken, er, I mean, Haydn, but with 3 mvmts.
Op.58 (C, Eb, Bb, b, D, Eb)
This was written right around Haydn's Opp. 76-77, and I gotta say, it seems Haydn is just head and antlers above this stuff, which doesn't really say much, considering how little I enjoy Haydn's SQs. However, I defy anyone not an expert to tell B and H apart here. I'll even amend and say that B's Op.58 is as good as H's Op.71, Op.74, Op.77, and parts of Op.76 (only H has at least some memorable ideas in parts of Op.76). B is certainly not "epic" here, though.
Perhaps I like the earlier SQ era (1770s-early 1790s), I don't know, but my first reaction to these late (1799) Boccherini SQs is "yawn". I guess I was expecting an Italian minor key extravaganza, but this is all pretty well behaved Haydnesque type stuff, which mean that my attention flags. Perhaps Joseph Martin Kraus is the man I'm looking for?
Thank God for the Enoch Pratt library, for I would not have wanted to endeavour the classical era SQ literature on my own dime. I AM, however, doing the do, and going through it. Next stop, Dittersdorf.
Quote from: Grazioso on April 16, 2009, 07:55:08 AM
The complete symphony set on CPO is a delight, with excellent playing, conducting, and recording. These make a really interesting and entertaining alternative to the classical symphonic model as practiced by Haydn and Mozart.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/510gro5slvL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Grazioso - meant to ask this question when you first posted, but obviously never did! :-\
The symphony box set is listed on Amazon as having 8 discs; having a number of CPO box packages, these are usually packaged as single discs in their own jewel boxes making for a BIG box and a storage issue; just curious if this practice holds up for the Boccherini box? Thanks - :)
Quote from: snyprrr on June 06, 2009, 12:30:17 PM
Well, I'm listening to B's Op.58 SQs 1-6 (CPO/Revolutionary Drawing Room), my first real listen to B, and I'm not impressed. Maybe NO "classical" era music impresses me on first listen, but I know that that's not true.................
Snyprrr - well, sorry about your experience w/ Luigi's SQs - maybe not the best place to start? :-\
I've preferred his
String Quintets, just love the dual cellos - might want to give these a try, and plenty of recommendations already made in this thread; please reply back if you give these works a try - :)
Boccherini SQs Op.39, Op.41 1-2/CPO The Revolutionary Drawing Room
The last set I had was the valedectory Op.58. This cd gathers 3 SQs written after a lengthy SQ writing hiatus, 1787-88, right around the time many other composers were writing SQs in abundance.
The writing here is a bit different than that in Op.58. It is a verrry friendly and unassuming mode. Op.39, in A major, is very friendly in that A major way. Boccherini definitely "sounds" different than Haydn. I certainly detect whiffs of Spain here.
Op.41 contains 2 SQs: c minor, and C major. But they switch modes so often, it is sometimes hard to tell which one you're in, the minor or major SQ! Again, the writing is so unassuming and friendly. There are no real virtuoso fireworks, but B's twists and turns are their own reward. Again, the c minor SQ is no "minor key" masterpiece: it can be difficult telling you're in a minor key SQ. So far, B hasn't shown himself to be the melancoly master. He does seem to like to trick people in the minor keys, but hey, at least that shows a little depth in his thinking, no?
I might be interested in trying Op.2. Then I would have heard his first, his (basically) last, and something from the middle.
I hate calling this "light" music because of the connotations, but it IS light and non-dangerous stuff. For me, the geniality and friendliness of these two Opp. lift them up. Plus, there's no denying that B certainly sounds pretty unique as far as the classical era goes. I just got the Dittersdorf/CPO yesterday, and comparing them has been very rewarding. I DO imagine that Pleyel would sound similar, too.
Anyhow, Boccherini wasn't what I expected... a little more elusive,...and straightforward... but with a definite "Spanish" tang or twinge. It doesn't sound overtly "classical."
Gaucho! ;D
Quote from: SonicMan on August 12, 2009, 02:38:47 PM
Boccherini, Luigi (1743-1805) - Keyboard Sonatas w/ String(s) - 2CD bargain set on Brilliant of 6 sonatas for fortepiano & violin & 6 sonatas for fortepiano & violin/cello w/ Franco Angeleri & Laura Alvini on fortepianos, Enrico Gatti on violin, & Roberto Gini on cello.
Just sparkling performances - the fortepiano is recorded well & Luigi's string writing as delightful as ever - this is not the usual Boccherini repertoire, i.e. keyboard, so if you like this composer, the era, and the earlier keyboard instruments, make a purchase - recommended to those w/ the proclivities described! :D
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Just tonight, I posted the above in the 'listening thread' about a recent
Boccherini purchase - excellent performances on the fortepiano; 2-CD set on the Brilliant label (above, left) - now the first CD in this set is the same licensed from Tactus - added above (right) which I've owned & commented on previously in this thread - so, just some comments not to purchase both - bottom line, the Brilliant set is an excellent bargain - :)
I ran through some LB on Amazon.
There are but a few String Sextets. Does anyone know these?
There are not that many String Trios. Does anyone know these?
There were over three hundred entries on "boccherini quartet", yet the field in SQs is pretty manageable.
Op. 2: CPO and Stradivarius
Op.8: Dynamic
Op.9
Op.15
Op.22 (quartettinos)
Op.24/6 (in g minor): EuropaGalant
Op.32: Naxos and Ezterhazy and CPO (CPO 4-6 only)
Op.33 (quartettinos): CPO
Op.39/41: CPO
Op.39: Naxos and EuropaGalant
Op.42 (quartettinos)
Op.43 (quartettinos)
Op.44 (quartettinos)
Op.48 (quartettinos)
Op.52: Dynamic
Op.53 (quartettinos)
Op.58: CPO
There are also compilation albums by the Apponyi and Peterson (who have one of the final two Op.64 SQs), and I believe single SQs by the Italiano and a third EuropaGalant cd, and maybe a few other single SQ cds, but that's about it for actual Boccherini SQs (except for the famous "encore"). When I looked into it, I saw that many of B's opera were for shorter quartettinos, rather than the full SQs of other opera. Six quartettinos will fit on a single cd, but six quartets will not (Op.32).
I have been hesitant to go passed the Opp. 39/41 CPO disc that I really have just been totally enjoying. They come from the same year as Haydn Op.50, and Pleyel, and Ditters, and have that same perfected classical sound, albeit with that Boccherini flair. I just ordered the Op. 24 g minor SQ on the EuropaGalant cd, which I project will be just what I'm looking for (look for me to be totally right or totally wrong here, ha!). And Op.2 and Op.32 have been calling lately. I just don't want to overdo a good thing here, especially if there is other Bocch. string music in the future.
Well, looking at the Quebec catalog of Boccherini's Oeuvre, there are about 70 works that could be listed as Trios (some are 3-instrument divertimenti; G. 77-142; G. 577-78) - I have just a set of discs of these works w/ Trio Miro; 6 trios only on two 'short' discs by Christophorus.
Concerning the Sextets, just 7 listed (G. 454-460), including Op. 23 w/ 6 works; I have only one disc of these compositions (4 from Op. 23), which is part of the 10-CD Capriccio box shown below - not sure if this is still a bargain item but discussed on the first page of this thread and reviewed by Music Web HERE (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2005/Aug05/Boccherini_box_49463.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2005/Aug05/Boccherini_CC49463.htm&usg=__m9hiG2YKD3utog4TOfaHG62FVXg=&h=260&w=300&sz=19&hl=en&start=30&um=1&tbnid=s8UA8hUz_sVZwM:&tbnh=101&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dboccherini%2Bstring%2Bsextets%26ndsp%3D18%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1B3GGGL_enUS343US343%26sa%3DN%26start%3D18%26um%3D1); now I've not listened to these recordings in a while, and would be curious about 'newer' offerings, esp. for the trios!
BTW - have you tried any of the String Quintets? :-\
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_QcSi7k_AvSc/SdA4jOBKB2I/AAAAAAAAKJs/Nb_SaVbJFN4/s400/Boccherini_trios+%5BDISCOS%5D.jpg) (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2005/Aug05/Boccherini_box_49463.jpg)
Dave and Snipper,
I have these Sextets:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/3119JRV3SYL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
and am very pleased with them. Hard to beat Ensemble 415 in any case.
Also have the Trio Miro disk that Dave mentions. I am pleased with it, so haven't looked for others. But I also have these:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/617MWFVC9JL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
which are his last trios. A whole different experience from teh earlier Op 14's.
I haven't made the slightest effort on the quartets yet; Boccherini's best music lives in his quintets, IMO. After I acquire more/most of those, I will go after some 4tets. Right now I only have a dozen or so.... :)
8)
Hello Gurn - just checked that Sextet disc - would work for me; contains the 2 Op. 23 sextets missing on my Capriccio CD w/ just one overlap - going to the 'wish list'!
Concerning the Trios, nearly a half dozen offerings on MDT - also checked BRO - they do have the 'Trio Miro' disc for $10, and of course a lot of Quintet offerings. :) Dave
Quote from: SonicMan on October 30, 2009, 07:50:23 AM
Hello Gurn - just checked that Sextet disc - would work for me; contains the 2 Op. 23 sextets missing on my Capriccio CD w/ just one overlap - going to the 'wish list'!
Concerning the Trios, nearly a half dozen offerings on MDT - also checked BRO - they do have the 'Trio Miro' disc for $10, and of course a lot of Quintet offerings. :) Dave
Did they have that "La Real Cámara" disk, (the one I pictured) Dave? It's called "Los últimos trios" (The Last Trios). Awfully nice, even more so if you can get it at a decent price. :)
You can never have enough quintets. Once the Haydn Project has passed the 'acquisition phase', I will go back to Boccherini's quintets. I have an awful lot of them, but really have just scratched the surface. :)
8)
La Musica Notturna Delle Strade Di Madrid No. 6 op.30 is such a lovely piece - an early evocation of streetmusic, the cello solo movement with strumming is one of the most joyous and lovely things he wrote I think.
Quote from: Guido on October 30, 2009, 08:15:44 AM
La Musica Notturna Delle Strade Di Madrid No. 6 op.30 is such a lovely piece - an early evocation of streetmusic, the cello solo movement with strumming is one of the most joyous and lovely things he wrote I think.
Yes, it's a wonderful piece. I have a couple versions of it, but this is my undoubted favorite:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61JTY209AWL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Savall & Co. make you feel like you are there... :)
8)
I saw those Trio and Sextet cds when I was trolling last night. The "Last Trios" disc does sound interesting.
I purposely didn't check out the search "boccherini quintet" because it had over 500 listings, and I didn't know how to cut that any with an added work. The Flute Quintets, and Piano Quintets, sound interesting (are their other "mixed" quintets?). The Quintets proper, though, seems like quite the task. I will try to get a Grove's overview nect time I go to the library.
Gurn, though, I do think you should check out the SQs Opp. 39/41 that I mentioned. All evidence says that B put a lot of care into these two, particularly. One of the SQs is actually @27mins. long, which doesn't happen in B's SQ literature. I'm just saying that these SQs are most definitely on a par with everyone else's (like I said, everyone was writing good stuff 1787-91!), and, because of their heft, they really do stand out as special.
Maybe I will have to a searchin for the ultimate Boccherini Quintet album, haha, yea, I'll see ya in a hundred years, haha!
btw- that Op.39, Op.41 number, I believe, also has other pieces, including Quintets, in it. I just wonder if the Quintets here are a cut above. As you know, I will be looking for minor keys here. Buh-BUH!!! (musical allusion)
Quote from: Guido on October 30, 2009, 08:15:44 AM
La Musica Notturna Delle Strade Di Madrid No. 6 op.30 is such a lovely piece - an early evocation of streetmusic, the cello solo movement with strumming is one of the most joyous and lovely things he wrote I think.
It is a memorable work. Beautiful, original, easy for listening, resourceful, full of popular flavour and profound (I particularly think of the splendid
Il rosario).
Europa Galante
Fandango Quintet
La Ritirata Quintet
SQ 24/6 in g minor
Well, first off, these guys are most definitely the HIPPEST HIPsters I heard yet. Mind you, when people criticize HIP's sometimes tangy sound and vibratoless diamond points, this might be what they're talking about. I would love to hear these guys in Haydn Op.20! Anyhow, it really did take me a little to get used to these most super HIP cats, but when I got beyond that, the music certainly came forth euphoniously. The recording is... well, it's really really good!
The SQ wasn't the "obvious" masterpiece I was expecting, but, however, continued B's streak of elusiveness. I'm starting to get a thing for g minor SQs, and this one fits in very nicely with the ones by Michael Haydn and Pleyel. The SQ starts off with a nice little unison bah-bah drama, but settles into a mode I find "rollicking". There is a lot of flitting about to different things. Perhaps one could say it has that charged Mozart minor key feel (duh!). The slow mvmt., particularly, shows a bit more depth than we normally associate with B. The SQ ends on a minuett, which seems to beg for a finale to me, but, what do i know. Very rarely, it seems (haven't heard Vanhal), do the 3 mvmt. SQs match the 4 mvmt. SQs on all cylinders. Taken as such, though, this SQ reminds me of Haydn's "Razor" SQ in its understated and refined elegance.
The two Guitar Quintets have been discussed already, I believe. The effect of toy soldiers marching in the Madrid mvmt. is really quite evocative here, though also a bit unsettling at first, with the strange spatial effects presented. All the rest of the music and performances are festively joyous.
I do think that this SQ experience made me see why B probably preferred the quintet. His particular style seems less comfortable here within the confines of four strings. It may be my imagination, but I'd like to seek out the Boccherini g minor quintet for a compare.
btw- this group's HIPness really did make the SQ sound more "baroque" to me, and I kept envisioning what a modern quartet (the Peterson play this SQ on their cd) would sound like. I don't know if I like the Biondi type of uber HIPness (the Salomon seem "mellower" in their overall stance, for instance). It IS very sweet (in the good way), I mean, he has quite a vision,...I'm just wondering if his vision is saying as much as the music? And yes, after this cd, I felt like standing with Herman and saying, "If I hear one more SQ with no vibrato I'm going to scream." I just can't help but hear Xenakis when I hear that buzzing diamond point sound of perfectly straight lines.
Someone around here looooooves Biondi. I'm simply asking if the extreme no-vibrato effect (and it IS an effect, to be sure,... or, a very specific perception) is what the wigs were after? The Nomos, in their Haydn Op.50, play pretty HIPly, with no "real" vibrato, but Biondi seems in absolute Xenakis territory (scientific straightness). It sounds disconcerting in Xenakis, and it sounds disconcerting in Boccherini, IMHO. I do get over it, however, and I can still enjoy the music, but, I'm finding, for me, when it's this HIP, it seems like an obstacle to me, something to be overcome. Hmmm.
I searched "boccherini quintet minor". got @275 listings, and got only about 20 discs of straight up String Quintets. The one ongoing cycle didn't show up on this search, though, but, bedises that, I can't imagine only about 20 discs of Bocch. String Quintets.
There were the two Lester/Hyperion, the Peterson, and CBS, Biondi, a few Bylsmer(?), a couple of odd balls, some Naxos, I mean, there wasn't a whole gaggle. Can this be right?
Boccherini's definitely one of my favourite Classical-era composers. He has a knack for turning chamber music into something much, much more.
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on October 30, 2009, 09:52:01 AM
Yes, it's a wonderful piece. I have a couple versions of it, but this is my undoubted favorite:
Savall & Co. make you feel like you are there... :)
That's my favourite Boccherini album! Here's what Savall does with the famous
La Musica Notturna Delle Strade Di Madrid for those curious...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRDeFsUuYho (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRDeFsUuYho)
Below is a post just left in Gurn's Classical Thread - appropriate here also - early cello compositions by Luigi when he was a 'traveling virtuoso' - some fine playing and a cheap purchase! :D
Boccherini, Luigi (1743-1805) - Cello Sonatas w/ Luigi Puxeddu et al; 4-CD set on a bargain Brilliant Box (discs listed below w/ the Yves Gerard, i.e. G numbers and dates of composition); these were composed when Luigi was in his 20s, and many while a traveling virtuoso cellist and composer.
The compositions are listed as Cello Solos w/ Basso Continuo, which was mainly w/ a second cello (likely a son & father performance early, or w/ others later?); in these performances, a second cello is used in the base line w/ a violin or viola substituted in several of the works.
My only comparison is a single disc w/ a favorite, Anner Bylsma as the 'solo' cellist, along w/ Kenneth Slowik on the other cello and Bob van Asperen on a fortepiano; not sure the latter is appropriate in the 'early works', but is not used in most of the performances on this disc (but does sound fine!).
Preference? Not sure after just one listening to the Brilliant set - Bylsma seems more animated, but Puxeddu has a fine melodious and legato line to his cello playing (and the sound is superb, i.e. 2007-08 recordings); this is a fine set for easy listening and the cellos sound just great together - a recommendation at the Brilliant price!
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/BoccheriniPuxeddu/717530994_fBXpJ-S.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/515mLLdIpsL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Boccherini - Cello Sonatas - Puxeddu
CD 1 - G3 (Sonata C) c. 1766 (bc w/ cello)
G2 (Sonata Cm) c. 1768 (bc w/ violin)
G1 (Sonata F) c. 1768 (bc w/ cello)
G4 (Sonata A) c. 1773 (bc w/ cello)
G5 (Sonata G) c. 1763 (bc w/ cello)
G4b(Sonata A) c. 1773 (bc w/ cello)
G2b(Sonata C) c. 1768 (bc w/ cello)
CD 2 - G6 (Sonata C) c. 1768 (bc w/ cello)
G7 (Sonata C) c. 1767 (bc w/ cello)
G8 (Sonata Bf) c. 1767 (bc w /cello)
G9 (Sonata F) c. 1764 (bc w/ cello)
G10(Sonata Ef) c. 1764 (bc w /cello)
G11(Sonata Ef) c. 1766 (bc w/ cello)
CD 3 - G12(Sonata Bf) c. 1766 (bc w /cello)
G13(Sonata A) c. 1766 (bc w/ cello)
G14(Sonata Ef) c. 1767 (bc w/ cello)
G15(Sonata G) c. 1768 (bc w /cello)
G16(Sonata Ef) c. 1764 (bc w /cello)
G17(Sonata C) c. 1772 (bc w/ cello)
G18(Sonata Cm) c. 1767 (bc w/ viola)
CD 4 - G565 (Sonata Bf) c. ? (bc w/ cello)
G565b(Sonata Bf) c. ? (bc w/ cello)
G566 (Sonata Ef) c. ? (bc w/ cello)
G? (Sonata Ef) c. ? (bc w/ cello)
G? (Sonata G) c. ? (bc w/ cello)
G? (Sonata A) c. ? (bc w/ cello)
only two minors, ... huh.
Just a repeat from a recent post in the 'Listening Thread' - just can't beat the price! :D
Great BRO bargain just arrived - virtually no overlap w/ the works that I already own of the composer in this genre below:
Boccherini, Luigi - String Quintets w/ La Magnifica Comunita on period instruments; 6-disc set of Op. 10-11-13 for $18! Packaged in cardboard sleeves in a thin box and a short booklet in English only. :D
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/BoccheriniQuintets6/722099626_qkbVx-O.jpg)
Quote from: snyprrr on November 01, 2009, 08:38:55 PM
I searched "boccherini quintet minor". got @275 listings, and got only about 20 discs of straight up String Quintets. The one ongoing cycle didn't show up on this search, though, but, bedises that, I can't imagine only about 20 discs of Bocch. String Quintets.
There were the two Lester/Hyperion, the Peterson, and CBS, Biondi, a few Bylsmer(?), a couple of odd balls, some Naxos, I mean, there wasn't a whole gaggle. Can this be right?
I'm going to try another search.
I had ordered a copy of the Quatuor Apponyi cd, but the guy then said he couldn't find it,...argh...that one looked to be really exciting. Anyone have this one? I guess they only recorded that, and the Haydn Op.33, right?
Quote from: SonicMan on November 24, 2009, 06:41:04 PM
Just a repeat from a recent post in the 'Listening Thread' - just can't beat the price! :D
Great BRO bargain just arrived - virtually no overlap w/ the works that I already own of the composer in this genre below:
Boccherini, Luigi - String Quintets w/ La Magnifica Comunita on period instruments; 6-disc set of Op. 10-11-13 for $18! Packaged in cardboard sleeves in a thin box and a short booklet in English only. :D
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/BoccheriniQuintets6/722099626_qkbVx-O.jpg)
Any word on whether Brilliant eventually plans to offer one big box set of the quintets performed by that group?
I got this cheap on Amazon ($8+), my consolation prize for not getting the Apponyi (...yet!). I've already raved about their Haydn Op.20 2/4 for it's Christmassy-fireplace special warmth, and this recording was made in the same church. The Haydn only says 1988, and this says 1976 (which is definite). I suspect the Haydn is an earlier vintage, but, I don't know.
Except for the fact that this is one of those "just-too-long-for-one-cd" 2cd jobs, this is A+ all the way around. Bocch's invention can be deeper than given credit for, and there are "moments" aplenty. The typical mixing of minor and major really comes out in this set. The short Grave of No.1 (Eb)is typical. The only other SQ set I've heard with this kind of melancoly is the Op.3 of Gretry.
The g minor No.5 has a nice chugging effect in the first mvmt., and makes a nice comparison with Bocch's Op.24/6, also in g minor, from not too many years earlier. One thing to note, perhaps, is that after Haydn's Op.20 g minor, which seems like quite a large painting indeed compared to both of these smaller SQs, Bocch's status as shut off from the outside world becomes apparent. In this respect I offer up for analysis my take that Bocch is stuck in Haydn's Opp. 9/17 mode, never reaching a real stylistic breakthrough like Haydn did with Op.20 (and then Op.33, and then Op.55, and...). Either way, Op.32 here stands as a nice mate to the Opp. 9/17 for me.
I'm sure the Naxos set also delivers the goods, but the HIP factor here clicks up the Spanish Castle Magic in that baroque-y, melancoly way like nothin'. This is one of those Good For EveryOne, Happy, Make You Smile Recordings.
Now,... I'm going to have to talk to Que about how to get that Apponyi disk from Amazon France, haha! :P :-* ;D
Quote from: snyprrr on February 14, 2010, 07:52:21 PM
I've already raved about their Haydn Op.20 2/4 for it's Christmassy-fireplace special warmth, and this recording was made in the same church. The Haydn only says 1988, and this says 1976 (which is definite). I suspect the Haydn is an earlier vintage, but, I don't know.
I can confirm your suspicions,
snyprrr, my copy of the String Quartets, Op. 20 Nos. 2 & 4 says: "Recorded at Doopsgezinde Gemeente, Amsterdam,
September 1973".
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on February 14, 2010, 09:21:01 PM
I can confirm your suspicions, snyprrr, my copy of the String Quartets, Op. 20 Nos. 2 & 4 says: "Recorded at Doopsgezinde Gemeente, Amsterdam, September 1973".
aha!,...thank you.
What do you think of the group? I know they seem to be recorded with the cello at the back, but I like the kind of "music box" presentation, very quaint; and, the playing feels cozy and fireplace-y. Sometimes their playing sounds like crackling embers in a Christmas fire. I like 'em!
Quote from: snyprrr on February 15, 2010, 07:34:49 AM
aha!,...thank you.
What do you think of the group? I know they seem to be recorded with the cello at the back, but I like the kind of "music box" presentation, very quaint; and, the playing feels cozy and fireplace-y. Sometimes their playing sounds like crackling embers in a Christmas fire. I like 'em!
I love that recording, too. It is full of certain feeling of perfect control and inner peace, as if the world were a fair and ordered place... and the sound quality provided by Wolf Erichson and his label really collaborated to those results.
FYI, fellow Boccherini fans, there's a new 5-CD Sony box set of Bylsma playing Boccherini (in the good company of Tafelmusik, Bob van Asperen, and the Kuijkens):
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41AM43fiG7L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Quote from: Grazioso on November 25, 2010, 04:35:24 AM
FYI, fellow Boccherini fans, there's a new 5-CD Sony box set of Bylsma playing Boccherini (in the good company of Tafelmusik, Bob van Asperen, and the Kuijkens):
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41AM43fiG7L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Nice! Despite the fact that I already have all 5 of those disks in various incarnations, I think I will grab that box anyway. Given the quality of the music as well as the greatest cellist around, it is a hard combination to beat. Always a good thing to encourage young artists by buying their work... :D
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Now playing:
Quartetto Italiano - D 703 Quartettsatz in c for Strings - Allegro assai
Quote from: Grazioso on November 25, 2010, 04:35:24 AM
FYI, fellow Boccherini fans, there's a new 5-CD Sony box set of Bylsma playing Boccherini (in the good company of Tafelmusik, Bob van Asperen, and the Kuijkens):
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41AM43fiG7L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Great offering - 17 euros on the JPC site w/ listings HERE (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Luigi-Boccherini-Anner-Bylsma-spielt-Boccherini/hnum/4987005)! I have one disc in this box but many of the other discs do not overlap my current recordings (except for some cello concertos) - don't yet see this offering at Amazon USA; JPC shipping is costly for me unless I make a BIG order! But will add to my 'wish list' - :D
Quote from: SonicMan on November 25, 2010, 05:39:00 AM
Great offering - 17 euros on the JPC site w/ listings HERE (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Luigi-Boccherini-Anner-Bylsma-spielt-Boccherini/hnum/4987005)! I have one disc in this box but many of the other discs do not overlap my current recordings (except for some cello concertos) - don't yet see this offering at Amazon USA; JPC shipping is costly for me unless I make a BIG order! But will add to my 'wish list' - :D
Dave,
amazon USA DO have it (just search Bylsma Boccherini and it's the 4th item on the list), but it's a hell of a lot more expensive than 17 euros! If you want it, jpc is a far better deal!
Just sayin'...
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Now playing:
Quartetto Italiano - D 810 Quartet #14 in d for Strings 2nd mvmt - Andante con moto
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 25, 2010, 06:13:52 AM
Dave,
amazon USA DO have it (just search Bylsma Boccherini and it's the 4th item on the list), but it's a hell of a lot more expensive than 17 euros! If you want it, jpc is a far better deal! ..........
Hi
Gurn - well after my post, I updated my Boccherini recordings (now on my iPod) - actually I have just one of the Bylsma discs of Luigi's works, but except for a SQuartet disc I have virtually all of the other works on this 'box' covered, so will keep on my 'wish list' for the time being - may be a price drop in the future on Amazon may occur?
But I went ahead and ordered some more
String Quartets not in my collection - nice price on a 2-CD set below - Dave :D
(http://www.naxosdirect.com/templates/shared/images/titles/largest/761203907021__lang-en-us.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan on November 25, 2010, 01:18:00 PM
Hi Gurn - well after my post, I updated my Boccherini recordings (now on my iPod) - actually I have just one of the Bylsma discs of Luigi's works, but except for a SQuartet disc I have virtually all of the other works on this 'box' covered, so will keep on my 'wish list' for the time being - may be a price drop in the future on Amazon may occur?
But I went ahead and ordered some more String Quartets not in my collection - nice price on a 2-CD set below - Dave :D
(http://www.naxosdirect.com/templates/shared/images/titles/largest/761203907021__lang-en-us.jpg)
Oh, that's looks nice. I have their Op 52 and 33 (I think), and a few other disks by that group too. Very nice. I'll have to check that one out. :)
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Now playing:
Franz Schubert - D 818 Divertissement in g for Piano 4-Hands 1st mvmt - Andante
Quote from: SonicMan on November 25, 2010, 05:39:00 AM
Great offering - 17 euros on the JPC site w/ listings HERE (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Luigi-Boccherini-Anner-Bylsma-spielt-Boccherini/hnum/4987005)! I have one disc in this box but many of the other discs do not overlap my current recordings (except for some cello concertos) - don't yet see this offering at Amazon USA; JPC shipping is costly for me unless I make a BIG order! But will add to my 'wish list' - :D
Amazon.fr have it for 11 euros! Amazon.fr also has great deals on some similar box sets: Budapest Quartet plays Beethoven, Reiner conducts Strauss, Wand conducts Bruckner, Rubinstein plays Chopin, etc.
What!? I paid that for one single Byslma Boccherini cd! Why I'll pull a Harry!! >:(
Nah I'll just think about getting the box instead. :)
Quote from: SonicMan on November 25, 2010, 01:18:00 PM
But I went ahead and ordered some more String Quartets not in my collection - nice price on a 2-CD set below - Dave :D
(http://www.naxosdirect.com/templates/shared/images/titles/largest/761203907021__lang-en-us.jpg)
I have their Op. 33 set on CPO: fine PI performances, well recorded. This should be a good one.
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 25, 2010, 05:11:40 AM
Despite the fact that I already have all 5 of those disks in various incarnations, I think I will grab that box anyway.
He asked, out of sheer curiosity, "But why?".
Quote from: Opus106 on November 26, 2010, 04:20:42 AM
He asked, out of sheer curiosity, "But why?".
Pure madness I would guess. Unless there are space saving issues to be considered?
Quote from: Opus106 on November 26, 2010, 04:20:42 AM
He asked, out of sheer curiosity, "But why?".
Well, 1 is a used copy that I bought that plays well but is in very poor condition otherwise, and 2 of them are downloads that I purchased while the other 2 came out of the 70th birthday set (I don't have the set but a person was selling it as individual disks so I got a couple). So yes, I have all the music, but... :-\ :)
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Now playing:
Ensemble Sans Souci - Birckenstock Op 1 #01 Suite in D for Violin with BC 1st mvmt - Adagio
That "various incarnations" part now makes sense. :)
Not only that but a couple of guys, whose opinions I respect, mentioned to me the other day that if I waited long enough, everything would eventually come out as a box set... maybe the wait is over? :D
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Now playing:
Ensemble Sans Souci - Birckenstock Op 1 #01 Suite in D for Violin with BC 2nd mvmt - Allegro
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 26, 2010, 04:52:09 AM
Well, 1 is a used copy that I bought that plays well but is in very poor condition otherwise, and 2 of them are downloads that I purchased while the other 2 came out of the 70th birthday set (I don't have the set but a person was selling it as individual disks so I got a couple). So yes, I have all the music, but... :-\ :)
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Now playing:
Ensemble Sans Souci - Birckenstock Op 1 #01 Suite in D for Violin with BC 1st mvmt - Adagio
Downloads doesn't count, so now I get it. Downloads are data files, not music.
Quote from: erato on November 26, 2010, 04:58:53 AM
Downloads doesn't count, so now I get it. Downloads are data files, not music.
No, when you pay for them, that makes them music. :) Anyway, they are data files on the CD too... just sayin'... :)
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Now playing:
Ensemble Sans Souci - Birckenstock Op 1 #01 Suite in D for Violin with BC 5th mvmt - Allegro
Quote from: Grazioso on November 26, 2010, 04:09:12 AM
I have their Op. 33 set on CPO: fine PI performances, well recorded. This should be a good one.
Grazioso & Gurn - may put that Op. 33 on my wish list -do not currently own those works; do have the Op. 2 early SQuartets on my large Capriccio box - Dave :D
Quote from: SonicMan on November 26, 2010, 06:43:11 AM
Grazioso & Gurn - may put that Op. 33 on my wish list -do not currently own those works; do have the Op. 2 early SQuartets on my large Capriccio box - Dave :D
Of the various Boccherini string quartet opuses I've heard so far, I'd rank op. 32 highest. Op. 33 consists of lighter, 2-movement works, but they're still certainly enjoyable.
I'm curious about that box set. I bought a 10-CD Capriccio set a while back, but there are no Op. 2 quartets, rather a miscellaneous grouping. (Op.2 is available on CPO from the modern-instruments--ugh--Sonare Quartet.) Is there another set I missed?
Quote from: Grazioso on November 27, 2010, 04:47:09 AM
Of the various Boccherini string quartet opuses I've heard so far, I'd rank op. 32 highest. Op. 33 consists of lighter, 2-movement works, but they're still certainly enjoyable.
I'm curious about that box set. I bought a 10-CD Capriccio set a while back, but there are no Op. 2 quartets, rather a miscellaneous grouping. (Op.2 is available on CPO from the modern-instruments--ugh--Sonare Quartet.) Is there another set I missed?
I'm assuming that we have the same Capriccio box (shown below) - if so, then you know that only a single disc of
String Quartets is included (G. 177, 194, 213, & 248); I went ahead and ordered the 2-disc set of Op. 58 but am now curious about your comments on the Op. 32 works? I found the 2-CD set below (right) on Amazon USA for a decent price - will need to check on ratings - thanks. Dave :)
Edit: found a 1977 Gramophone review HERE (http://www.gramophone.net/Issue/Page/December%201977/112/747243/)- seems like the same recording, i.e. Op. 32 - will order today!(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51z-Ucio1bL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/417Ulf8UxbL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41AM43fiG7L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)(http://www.portaldearte.cl/img/age/image001.jpg)
:)
Any opinions on this pair of recordings?
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I guess the best way I can describe my impression of Op. 32 as rendered here (I have no others with which I can contrast them ) is relatively early Haydn
Quote from: SonicMan on November 27, 2010, 06:53:29 AM
I'm assuming that we have the same Capriccio box (shown below) - if so, then you know that only a single disc of String Quartets is included (G. 177, 194, 213, & 248); I went ahead and ordered the 2-disc set of Op. 58 but am now curious about your comments on the Op. 32 works? I found the 2-CD set below (right) on Amazon USA for a decent price - will need to check on ratings - thanks. Dave :)
Edit: found a 1977 Gramophone review HERE (http://www.gramophone.net/Issue/Page/December%201977/112/747243/)- seems like the same recording, i.e. Op. 32 - will order today!
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51z-Ucio1bL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/417Ulf8UxbL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Yes, the same set. I must have misunderstood you: in your original post, it sounded like you said you got the Op. 2 quartets within that set.
That Op. 32 set by the Esterhazy Quartet is awesome. Definitely pull the trigger :)
Quote from: Grazioso on November 28, 2010, 04:06:43 AM
Yes, the same set. I must have misunderstood you: in your original post, it sounded like you said you got the Op. 2 quartets within that set.
That Op. 32 set by the Esterhazy Quartet is awesome. Definitely pull the trigger :)
Well, I do have the Op. 2 SQuartets but on the CPO label - and have just ordeed the Op. 32 & 58 works! :)
Well, just received two sets (2-discs each) of some of Luigi's many
String Quartets; as stated before, I own plenty of his
Quintets but the quartets seem to be less recorded; both of these performances are excellent (Gramophone link on the Op. 32 set w/ Jaap Schroder being one of the violinists) - despite the 1976 recording date on the Op. 32 works, the sound is just superb! :D
QuoteBoccherini, Luigi (1743-1805) - String Quartets, Op. 32 & 58 on different labels and with different groups; really enjoying the Op. 32 works at the moment - published in 1780 (couple of years before Haydn's Op. 33) - these are a reissue recorded in 1976 by the Esterhazy Quartet w/ Jaap Schroder using PI techniques according to this old review from Gramophone HERE (http://www.gramophone.net/Issue/Page/December%201977/112/747243/BOCCHERINI.+String+Quartets,+Op.+32.+Esterh%C3%A1zy+Quartet+%28Jaap+Schroder,+Alda+Stuurop,+violins) - both new arrivals! :D
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/BoccheriniSQOp32/1113112538_NhdVV-O.jpg) (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/Boccherini58SQs/1111585253_Jxwmv-O.jpg)
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Now listening to Disc 1. As soon as my wife heard it playing. she snapped up Disc 2 to take with her in the car while running errands. We both like the sound that is given off by recording in the hall that was used. It reminded us of a chamber concert we heard played at Williamsburg.
Quote from: Bogey on January 08, 2011, 11:52:41 AM
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Now listening to Disc 1. As soon as my wife heard it playing. she snapped up Disc 2 to take with her in the car while running errands. We both like the sound that is given off by recording in the hall that was used. It reminded us of a chamber concert we heard played at Williamsburg.
Yeah, I'm keen on that box too, Bill. I have all the works otherwise, by three different cellists, but I like the playing of Puxeddu, as well as the sound. That's a very worthwhile box-o-sonatas. :)
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Now playing:
Quartetto D'archi Di Venezia - Bazzini Quartet #2 in d for Strings 4th mvmt - Quasi presto
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on January 08, 2011, 12:24:15 PM
Yeah, I'm keen on that box too, Bill. I have all the works otherwise, by three different cellists, but I like the playing of Puxeddu, as well as the sound. That's a very worthwhile box-o-sonatas. :)
Bill - I own and enjoy that box as well; believe that there may have been some minor complaints by someone in the listening thread not too long ago? But,
Puxeddu does quite well - there is an overall excellent (albeit brief) review HERE (http://www.allmusic.com/album/boccherini-complete-cello-sonatas-w204341/review) for those who may be contemplating a purchase; as usual, the price cannot be beat! Dave
Do any of you have a rec. for his Stabat Mater?
Quote from: Bogey on January 08, 2011, 02:03:01 PM
Do any of you have a rec. for his Stabat Mater?
Bill - I have MUCHO MUSIC by Luigi but only one vocal work, which is the
Stabat Mater (along w/ another) shown below - this is available from BRO at the present for $10 - have not listened to the disc in a while, so cannot comment of whether it is the best one out there? Hopefully others will 'chime in' - Dave
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51dM8TRQPvL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan on January 08, 2011, 02:12:01 PMI have MUCHO MUSIC by Luigi...
"Mucha" music or "mucha música", dear Dave. One of the hardest things of the Spanish are the adjectives because they have "gender". The adjectives are easier in English, but the prepositions are just demoniac. :)
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on January 08, 2011, 03:54:34 PM
"Mucha" music or "mucha música", dear Dave. One of the hardest things of the Spanish are the adjectives because they have "gender". The adjectives are easier in English, but the prepositions are just demoniac. :)
Dear
Antoine - why the embarrassment, I was just combining languages for the sake of us poor Yankees! ;D
Actually, I took 2 yrs of Spanish at the University of Michigan as a pre-med student - can hardly remember a thing since I've not used the language (and I also feel this is a GREAT loss to me!); so I do understand your explanations.
Maybe I should have just used MUCH to explain my position - ;) Dave ;D
Quote from: SonicMan on January 08, 2011, 04:03:38 PM
Dear Antoine - why the embarrassment, I was just combining languages for the sake of us poor Yankees! ;D
Actually, I took 2 yrs of Spanish at the University of Michigan as a pre-med student - can hardly remember a thing since I've not used the language (and I also feel this is a GREAT loss to me!); so I do understand your explanations.
Maybe I should have just used MUCH to explain my position - ;) Dave ;D
One thing I really appreciate about English speakers is the disposition to understand even people writing or speaking bad English (like me, f.i. :D). Obviously the situation is rather different with other languages, notoriously the French.
To be continued or not?
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Quote from: Orpheus on May 04, 2011, 06:03:10 AM
To be continued or not?
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An alternative:
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Quote from: Grazioso on May 05, 2011, 09:15:55 AM
An alternative:
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I know that Brilliant box (but I do not own it), but I would like to know if Naxos will continue its own series
Quote from: Orpheus on May 05, 2011, 10:09:04 AM
I know that Brilliant box (but I do not own it), but I would like to know if Naxos will continue its own series
They have released a couple other sonatas discs, but with different artists. It seems quite unlikely they'll complete the series with the original artists, given that that disc was released 12 years ago.
Heads up: Virgin has re-released two of the Europa Galante Boccherini discs as a cheap twofer. These are essential recordings for Boccherini addicts.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51jMSrMNHaL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Quote from: Grazioso on June 29, 2011, 04:54:13 AM
Heads up: Virgin has re-released two of the Europa Galante Boccherini discs as a cheap twofer. These are essential recordings for Boccherini addicts.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51jMSrMNHaL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Amen, brother!
Divertimenti, Op. 16 - Flute Sextets w/ Strings - just received the disc below (left) w/ Piccolo Concerto Wien (PCW) performing 3 of the works from this group of six - the Yves Gérard, i.e. G numbers were not listed; now I also own the Capriccio disc (from their Boccherini 10-CD box) w/ some of the same works, so 'how much' overlap - well, in checking HERE (http://www.uquebec.ca/musique/catal/boccherini/boclchb6.html#461466), the works recorded on each of these discs are:
PCW - G.462, 463, & 465 vs. the Capriccio - G.461, 464, 465, & 466 - so, just one overlapping work; a nice combo of CDs for those interested in Luigi's larger chamber works w/ the flute! :)
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-9Q9gPzv/0/O/BoccheriniDivertimentiPCWien.jpg) (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-ZsCwwRB/0/O/BoccheriniDivertimenti.jpg)
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Anyone get this set? Thoughts?
CD 1-2 Symphonies, G 515, 517-522 (Michael Erleben, New Berlin Chamber Orchestra, 1993)
CD 3-5 Cello Concertos, G 474-483, 573, E-flat major G deest (Enrico Bronzi, Accademia i filarmonici di Verona, 2005)
CD 6 String Sextets, Op. 23, no. 1, 3, 4, 6; G 454, 456, 457, 459 (Mayumi Seiler and others, 1991)
CD 7 Oboe Quintets, Op. 55, G 431-436 (Lajos Lencsés, Parisli Quartet, 1992)
CD 8-9 Guitar Quintets, G 445-450, 453 (Eros Roselli, La Magnifica Comunità, 2005)
CD 10-13 Piano Quintets, Op. 56-57; G 407-418 (Ilario Gregoletto, Ensemble Claviere, 2005)
CD 14-29 String Quintets, Op. 10, 11, 13, 18, 20, 25, 27, 28 (all with second cello), 39 (with bass); G 265-312, 337-339 (La Magnifica Comunità, 2006-2011)
CD 30 String Quartets, G 248, 177, 194, 213 (Petersen Quartet, 1991)
CD 31 Sonatas for Piano and Violin, Op. 5; G 25-30 (Enrico Gatti, Franco Angelini, 1991)
CD 32 Sonatas for Piano, Violin, and Cello, G 143-148 (Galimathias Musicum, 1991)
CD 33-36 Sonatas for Cello, G 1, 2a, 2b, 3, 4a, 4b, 5-18, 565a, 565b, 566, E-flat major, G major, and D major G deest (Luigi Puxeddu and others, 2009; G 18 played on viola)
CD 37 Stabat Mater, 1781 version, G 532 (Barbara Vignudelli, soprano; Flavio Emilio Scogna, Orchestra da Camera "Benedetto Marcello," 2005)
Hey
George - I have about 50 discs of
Luigi's music - virtually most of which is listed below (and beyond) - the ones in bold seem to match those that I own (although that collection is in part a sampling from individual larger boxes offered by Brilliant); NOW, looking @ my database, I'm not sure if I own the
Piano Sonatas (disc 32) - not sure 'how much'
Boccherini you now own? BUT, if that box is priced right for you and you want 3 dozen discs of his music, then I'd certainly suggest a strong consideration - Dave :)
Quote from: George on February 13, 2013, 05:58:24 PM
Anyone get this set? Thoughts?
CD 1-2 Symphonies, G 515, 517-522 (Michael Erleben, New Berlin Chamber Orchestra, 1993)
CD 3-5 Cello Concertos, G 474-483, 573, E-flat major G deest (Enrico Bronzi, Accademia i filarmonici di Verona, 2005)
CD 6 String Sextets, Op. 23, no. 1, 3, 4, 6; G 454, 456, 457, 459 (Mayumi Seiler and others, 1991)
CD 7 Oboe Quintets, Op. 55, G 431-436 (Lajos Lencsés, Parisli Quartet, 1992)
CD 8-9 Guitar Quintets, G 445-450, 453 (Eros Roselli, La Magnifica Comunità, 2005)
CD 10-13 Piano Quintets, Op. 56-57; G 407-418 (Ilario Gregoletto, Ensemble Claviere, 2005)
CD 14-29 String Quintets, Op. 10, 11, 13, 18, 20, 25, 27, 28 (all with second cello), 39 (with bass); G 265-312, 337-339 (La Magnifica Comunità, 2006-2011)
CD 30 String Quartets, G 248, 177, 194, 213 (Petersen Quartet, 1991)
CD 31 Sonatas for Piano and Violin, Op. 5; G 25-30 (Enrico Gatti, Franco Angelini, 1991)
CD 32 Sonatas for Piano, Violin, and Cello, G 143-148 (Galimathias Musicum, 1991)
CD 33-36 Sonatas for Cello, G 1, 2a, 2b, 3, 4a, 4b, 5-18, 565a, 565b, 566, E-flat major, G major, and D major G deest (Luigi Puxeddu and others, 2009; G 18 played on viola)
CD 37 Stabat Mater, 1781 version, G 532 (Barbara Vignudelli, soprano; Flavio Emilio Scogna, Orchestra da Camera "Benedetto Marcello," 2005)
Thanks, Dave! I trust you enjoy the performances from that big box that you have heard already?
Quote from: George on February 13, 2013, 06:34:11 PM
Thanks, Dave! I trust you enjoy the performances from that big box that you have heard already?
George - well, I've not listened to a lot of this in a while but it's still in my collection and I enjoyed - plus, just checked on Amazon and that box is there for $66 (i.e. just 2 bucks a disc!) - again, if you really want that much of his music, this is a great deal - Dave :)
Recently I have been listening to my four Boccherini discs:
[asin]B00000JMXF[/asin] [asin]B0000273M9[/asin] [asin]B00000J8KB[/asin] [asin]B00004HYNS[/asin]
Boccherini is easy to overlook, but his music is always a delight to listen to. Looks like it's time to collect more Boccherini... 0:)
Quote from: 71 dB on December 23, 2014, 01:38:44 AM
Recently I have been listening to my four Boccherini discs:
Boccherini is easy to overlook, but his music is always a delight to listen to. Looks like it's time to collect more Boccherini... 0:)
Yep,
Luigi wrote a LOT of varied music worth exploring - his
String Quintets are especially enjoyable, typically using two cellos. Dave :)
Highly recommended
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My own comments:
Despite what one might be inclined to believe judging by the title and the structure of the works (two-movement) this is not at all light music. The first movements are always meditative, even ruminative sometimes (the Andantino of no. 3 and the Adagio of no. 4, for instance) while the menuets are anything but dances; I mean they dance, but on thin ice, and it's more like a dance of emotions and thoughts rather than of feet. Add to this that Boccherini is one of those few composers who can effortlessly and miraculously make a major key sound like a minor one (the only other one I can think of is Schubert) and that in refinement and stylishness he is second to none. Biondi and his team play with their usual warmth and engagement.
Quote from: SonicMan46 on December 23, 2014, 07:48:28 AM
Yep, Luigi wrote a LOT of varied music worth exploring - his String Quintets are especially enjoyable, typically using two cellos. Dave :)
After looking for String Quintets I am puzzled. Brilliant Classics' 6 CD box looks good.
Quote from: 71 dB on December 24, 2014, 01:08:46 AM
After looking for String Quintets I am puzzled. Brilliant Classics' 6 CD box looks good.
Hi
Poju - I have over 40 of Luigi's
String Quintets (those listed below); the ones in bold are in the Brilliant 6-CD box - the recordings are recent, 2004-2005, but period instruments and practices were used - recommended as a bargain introduction; and those other CDs listed below are w/ excellent performers.
Boccherini wrote over 150 of these works for 5 string instruments, not counting the guitar quintets and quintets for other instruments, such as the keyboard & flute (list of his compositions HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Luigi_Boccherini)). Dave :)
String Quintets
G. 265-270 - La Magnifica ComunitaG. 271-276 - La Magnifica ComunitaG. 277-282 - La Magnifica ComunitaG. 280, 326, 393, 401 - Peterson Q.
G. 391, 395, 397 - Ensemble 415
G. 275, 348, 351 - Lester-Vanb.Q.
G. 310,349,350,353 - Lester-Vanb.Q.
G. 324 ,448 - Fandango - Savall
G. 249, 337-339 - Ens Concertant Frankfurt
G. 313-318 - Byslma-Kuijkens (Seon 2-CDs)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on December 24, 2014, 11:42:05 AM
Hi Poju - I have over 40 of Luigi's String Quintets (those listed below); the ones in bold are in the Brilliant 6-CD box - the recordings are recent, 2004-2005, but period instruments and practices were used - recommended as a bargain introduction; and those other CDs listed below are w/ excellent performers.
Boccherini wrote over 150 of these works for 5 string instruments, not counting the guitar quintets and quintets for other instruments, such as the keyboard & flute (list of his compositions HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Luigi_Boccherini)). Dave :)
String Quintets
G. 265-270 - La Magnifica Comunita
G. 271-276 - La Magnifica Comunita
G. 277-282 - La Magnifica Comunita
G. 280, 326, 393, 401 - Peterson Q.
G. 391, 395, 397 - Ensemble 415
G. 275, 348, 351 - Lester-Vanb.Q.
G. 310,349,350,353 - Lester-Vanb.Q.
G. 324 ,448 - Fandango - Savall
G. 249, 337-339 - Ens Concertant Frankfurt
G. 313-318 - Byslma-Kuijkens (Seon 2-CDs)
I clearly need to think about what I really want to do with Boccherini. Thanks for this information Dave! I am quite fond of the Flute Quintets.
Boccherini's Flute or Oboe Quintets - just a brief discussion stimulated by a post made by
Bill (Bogey) in the listening thread:
From HERE (http://www.musiqueorguequebec.ca/catal/boccherini/boclchb5a.html#419444),
Luigi B. wrote
24 Quintets for the flute or the oboe - their Opus and/or G numbers (from Yves Gérard catalog) are listed below.
Currently, I own Op. 19 on flute (Auser Musici w/ Carlo Ipata on a period instrument); Op. 55 on flute (Michael Faust on a modern one); and Op. 55 on oboe (Lajos Lencsés - not sure about the type of oboe?). SO, I've just 12 of these works since 6 are duplicated on different instruments - will go to Amazon and see what else might be available, especially in Op. 17 - Dave :)
P.S. the recording w/ Faust received a 1* rejection on Amazon by Giordano Bruno, so see attachment w/ his and two other reviews added - I agree w/ the Fanfare comments - this is a recommended recording but the flute is too much 'up front' (usually I like this approach, but...) - a better balance or a different instrument might have helped.
QuoteOp. 17 Nos. 1-6 (G. 419-424)
Op. 19 Nos. 1-6 (G. 425-430)
Op. 55 Nos. 1-6 (G. 432-436)
G. 437-442, i.e. 6 more
G. 443-444, incorrect attribution
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-jmfVXjM/0/O/Boccherini_Flute1.jpg) (http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/017/MI0001017695.jpg?partner=allrovi.com) (http://c3.cduniverse.ws/resized/250x500/music/428/1493428.jpg)
A quick F/U to my last post - just got off Amazon and ordered the two 'used' CDs (total purchase $9) that add the Op. 17 works (on the flute) and also the later works after Op. 55 w/ Rampal (the ones Bill mentioned in the listening thread) - Dave :)
P.S. concerning 'used' CDs from the Amazon MP, so far I've ordered at least a couple of dozen and all of played fine and many looked nearly brand new, so willing to take a chance.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519Cr5raGBL.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51E29JG6HDL._SY300_.jpg)
The quartets and quintets (both with the Petersen quartet) and another disc with sextets? (also with Berlin based musicians, I think) in the ealry 90ties? Capriccio Boccherini edition are excellent and often available very cheaply. I do not remember the oboe and guitar stuff from this edition because I got rid of these but the oboe was with Lencses and also pretty good. Everything with modern instruments but lively and stylish. The problem with Boccherini is that his music often is not much more than lively and stylish, but sometimes far better than that...
Hello Jo... - I own that Capriccio box and enjoy nearly all of the discs - not as thrill w/ the performances of the Guitar Quintets but have supplemented those w/ other CDs - cannot remember the price I paid but probably not much more that $3/disc. Dave :)
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-PqkJ93P/0/O/Boccherini_Box.jpg)
Oh dear! Such a conflict! To buy or not to buy? What to buy? When to buy? I haven't been this confused for ages...
:o :o ???
Quote from: 71 dB on December 27, 2014, 12:32:38 PM
Oh dear! Such a conflict! To buy or not to buy? What to buy? When to buy? I haven't been this confused for ages...
:o :o ???
The choice...
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There was probably nothing wrong with the guitar quintets. I dislike the combination (actually I rather dislike classical guitar most of the time).
If one does not insist on period instruments, the Capriccio box is great value, especially at the prices it was often offered in the past. And it is not so much that one is endangered of drowning.
I have quite a bit of other Boccherini (most of the the chamber music available on cpo, some other period instrument discs) but right now I lack the initiative to review them. I think his music has been rather unfairly reduced to the famous "Ladykillers" menuet, but it is not completely uncharacteristic. To be blunt, the misrepresentation of Mozart by Eine kleine Nachtmusik is far more unfair and misleading than Boccherini and his menuet.
In the Capriccio box shown in my previous post are 2 CDs of
Boccherini Symphonies - he wrote just over two dozen of these works (there is an 8-disc CPO box stating 28 symphonies - I do not own that set). Quoted below (SOURCE (http://www.musiqueorguequebec.ca/catal/boccherini/boclorc3.html)), his 'symphonic works' are divided into those for small & larger orchestras; the Op. 12, 21, & 35 works composed between 1771 & 1782 were for the Spanish court where he was employed. The remainder of his later symphonies, G. 515-522, were sent to the German court in Berlin, where Boccherini had been hired as an 'external chamber composer' in 1786.
The discs shown below are performances with Michael Erxleben conducting the New Berlin Chamber Orchestra of the last 7 'extant' symphonies in the list - these compositions are quite pleasant on a smaller scale than the symphonies being composed in Vienna or Germany at the time. Before purchasing this Capriccio box, I had 4 discs of Luigi's symphonies: 1) Op. 12 works w/ Leppard & the New Philharmonia Orchestra - Phillips Duo; and 2) 2 discs w/ Ross Pople and the London Festival Orchestra, Op. 35, Op. 37/42 - so some duplication - guess that I'm missing the Op. 21 works for smaller orchestra, which might be more like his divertimenti? Dave :)
QuoteSymphonies for small orchestra
G. 490, 493-498 (Op. 21 - 1775)
Symphonies for larger orchestra
G. 503-508 (Op. 12 - 1771)
G. 509-514 (Op. 35 - 1782)
G. 515-518 (Op. 37 - 1787) (516 lost)
G. 519-522 (Op. 41-45 - 1788-1792)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51gSO67R11L._SX300_.jpg) (http://www.naxos.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/C10458.jpg)
Thanks for the posts, Dave!
Quote from: Bogey on December 28, 2014, 10:25:49 AM
Thanks for the posts, Dave!
No problem - was looking up the information anyway, so easy to put into a few posts! BTW, I went to
Classicsonline and purchased the Op. 21 symphonies which are part the the 8-CD CPO box - just had to buy Vol. 4 and the first 3 tracks on Vol. 5 - had some credit there so just a $10 purchase. Burned to a CD-R and ready for a listen. Dave :)
There is a nice PI disc with a bunch of symphonies on harmonia mundi, played by the Akademie für Alte Musik, somewhat wilder than Leppard or the ones on Capriccio. Probably some overlap. I didn't check. I am not a completist here, so for now I think this one, Leppard and Erxleben are sufficient for me, even if there are 10 or so more symphonies.
[asin]B00009IC6F[/asin]
I'm surprised looking down through here, no one has mentioned the symphonies performed in this set by Goritzki:
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/Gurn_Blanston/CD%20Covers/BoccherinisymphoniesGoritzki_zpsed5af14d.jpg)
I have really enjoyed this box over the years, although I have the one Jo links above too, and it is excellent. :)
8)
PS - Since it is hard to read, the band is the Deutsche Kammerakademie Neuss - What is 'Neuss'? ???
Neuss is city on the lower Rhine in Germany, not far from the Dutch border.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuss
Quote from: Jo498 on December 29, 2014, 05:48:43 AM
Neuss is city on the lower Rhine in Germany, not far from the Dutch border.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuss
Thanks. I didn't know if it was a city or an adjective. :-[
8)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on December 29, 2014, 05:41:13 AM
I'm surprised looking down through here, no one has mentioned the symphonies performed in this set by Goritzki:
Hi
Gurn - I've been contemplating that
Goritzki CPO box for a number of years, but had most of Luigi's Symphonies on the other recordings shown in my post above, except for the Op. 21 works - so did an online purchase (just left the post quoted below in the listening thread). I'm assuming that the performances are pretty consistent - I did like the recording below. Dave :)
QuoteBoccherini, Luigi - Symphonies, Op. 21 - left some posts in the Boccherini thread including one concerning his symphonies of which I had nearly all except the Op. 21 works - so went to Classicsonline and purchased the Goritzki performances (basically Vol. 4 + first 3 tracks of Vol. 5) - burned to CD-R and listened this morning - quite good! Dave :)
(http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/500/67549328/Boccherini+Complete+Symphonies+Vol+4.jpg) (http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/011/MI0001011815.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on December 29, 2014, 09:02:12 AM
Hi Gurn - I've been contemplating that Goritzki CPO box for a number of years, but had most of Luigi's Symphonies on the other recordings shown in my post above, except for the Op. 21 works - so did an online purchase (just left the post quoted below in the listening thread). I'm assuming that the performances are pretty consistent - I did like the recording below. Dave :)
Ah, I figured you must have traveled this road, Dave. Yes, although I never have listened to more than one disk at a time, but they all have high production values. I have a variety of other disks of sinfonias (or with sinfonias on them) but I got this box at a bargain and now have it as a fallback so there is no one I can't listen to. I know, greedy... :-[ :P :D
8)
[ I think I am only noticing now that there is an exclamation mark in the subject header. ]
Quote from: karlhenning on December 29, 2014, 10:40:04 AM
[ I think I am only noticing now that there is an exclamation mark in the subject header. ]
Must have been the fool who started this thread? ;) Dave
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/510gro5slvL.jpg)
8 discs, 28 symphonies (all of them ?). Anyone considers this is worth listening as a whole ? Second question: is it a slim box or a repackaging of 8 individual discs ?
Quote from: André on September 25, 2017, 06:38:07 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/510gro5slvL.jpg)
8 discs, 28 symphonies (all of them ?). Anyone considers this is worth listening as a whole ? Second question: is it a slim box or a repackaging of 8 individual discs ?
I don't have any interest in Boccherini, but just making an observation: it's more than likely, since it's CPO, that the box set is nothing more than a repackaging of the individual issues. Seems to be their standard procedure. Certainly a shelf-space killer!
That's what I'm afraid of >:( .
All CPO sets I have are simple repackagings. Don't they know the value of space economy ? ::)
Quote from: André on September 25, 2017, 07:00:11 PM
That's what I'm afraid of >:( .
All CPO sets I have are simple repackagings. Don't they know the value of space economy ? ::)
Yeah, IMHO, it's a rather sloppy approach, but, thankfully, so many of their recordings are outstanding that it more than makes up for the shoddy packaging. :)
Quote from: André on September 25, 2017, 06:38:07 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/510gro5slvL.jpg)
8 discs, 28 symphonies (all of them ?). Anyone considers this is worth listening as a whole ? Second question: is it a slim box or a repackaging of 8 individual discs ?
While I've enjoyed the set, it does take up a lot of room as it is simply 8 discs put together.
Quote from: mc ukrneal on September 25, 2017, 07:13:25 PM
While I've enjoyed the set, it does take up a lot of room as it is simply 8 discs put together.
Otoh, if one likes Boccherini's music, this set is essential.
They know the value of not having to design and put together new packaging. It is a tiny label compared to the majors and their output is quite amazing (of course a lot of it made possible by co-operation with German/European radio broadcasters). The documentation and annotation also ranks from pretty good to outstanding, so they would lose the booklets or have to reformat and design them as well. I can well imagine that they want to save such expenses.
I don't know the box in question but I also have never seen slim boxes from them. I have several of their Boccherini chamber recordings and these ones are generally very good.
I think CPO have done a few slimmer boxes. The most recent version of the Spohr Violin Concerto box is a smaller box. The Loewe Lieder box is thinner too, but I don't remember if they released those separately or not. At 20 discs, maybe it was just too big.
So many things to discover, such low prices on line, and yet time and space have become essential considerations (wasn't the case 10 years ago). I already have 51 discs of Boccherini but I crave for more. The 37 disc Brilliant set is on my radar. I have half of it already, but the ridiculous price makes the whole thing more advantageous than filling the gaps. The CPO set of the symphonies is very tempting also. I have 4 discs of them symphonies in other versions, but the Goritzki approach seems markedly different, therefore justifying the investment.
Of course I'd sell duplicates to make room for the new stuff, but it would still mean I'd have to expand and reshuffle to make room. My shelves are bursting and discs almost fall off them. This is getting crazy.
Quote from: André on September 26, 2017, 07:19:34 AM
The CPO set of the symphonies is very tempting also. I have 4 discs of them symphonies in other versions, but the Goritzki approach seems markedly different, therefore justifying the investment.
Beside the fabulous performance, a big plus on the Goritzki's side are the liner notes: some of the most complete and informative ever.
One can always repackage stuff oneself, although it does not work so well with extensive booklets/notes. I have put several 100 discs from "fat" double to slim double cases and even transferred them to paper sleeves in the case of some older Brilliant boxes that had jewelcases but no real booklets, only one sheet of paper with minimal track info.
I have about 25 discs with Boccherini (probably a few more pieces on mixed discs), about 15 symphonies among them and this is sufficient for now.
Quote from: André on September 26, 2017, 07:19:34 AM
So many things to discover, such low prices on line, and yet time and space have become essential considerations (wasn't the case 10 years ago). I already have 51 discs of Boccherini but I crave for more. The 37 disc Brilliant set is on my radar. I have half of it already, but the ridiculous price makes the whole thing more advantageous than filling the gaps. The CPO set of the symphonies is very tempting also. I have 4 discs of them symphonies in other versions, but the Goritzki approach seems markedly different, therefore justifying the investment.
Of course I'd sell duplicates to make room for the new stuff, but it would still mean I'd have to expand and reshuffle to make room. My shelves are bursting and discs almost fall off them. This is getting crazy.
Hi
André - I've also 'eyed' that Goritzki CPO box - owned many of their boxes and all are 'bulky' single jewel box compilations that take up a LOT of my shelf and cabinet space; plus, I already have most of
Luigi's Symphonies - see quote below, i.e. 25 total (w/ a couple of dupes) - out of curiosity, I looked at
Boccherini's Symphonies list HERE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Luigi_Boccherini#Symphonies) - made a combo pic below (red asterisks are the ones I own) - appears he composed about 30 w/ 'Symphony....' as the starting description, so I'm pretty set @ two dozen, BUT will look on Amazon today is see what may be new? Dave :)
QuoteSymphonies (Total = 25 + 2 Duplications)
G. 493 - 498 (Op. 21) - Goritzki (6)
G. 503 - 508 - Leppard-New PO (6)
G. 509 - 514 - Pople/London FO (6)
G. 511 & 517-Savall/Le C.Nations (2)
G. 515, 517, 518 - Erxleben/NewBlin (3)
G. 519 - 522 - Erxleben/NewBlin (4)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-Wk3NxJJ/1/ea905334/X3/BoccheriniSymphs-X3.png)
Thanks fo the info, Dave! The discs I have are on your list: the Leppard op 12 and Erxleber Capriccio performances. And I can't say I'm satisfied with either. Sound clips of various movements from the Goritzki set reveal the kind of transparent sound and singing approach to phrasing I have in mind for Boccherini.
Quote from: Florestan on September 26, 2017, 07:23:39 AM
Beside the fabulous performance, a big plus on the Goritzki's side are the liner notes: some of the most complete and informative ever.
Quote from: André on September 26, 2017, 11:58:57 AM
Thanks fo the info, Dave! The discs I have are on your list: the Leppard op 12 and Erxleber Capriccio performances. And I can't say I'm satisfied with either. Sound clips of various movements from the Goritzki set reveal the kind of transparent sound and singing approach to phrasing I have in mind for Boccherini.
Well, after posting, I listened to my one
Goritzki recording (an MP3 purchase) and enjoyed; then to both discs of
Leppard (performances from 1972) and not as pleased - AND, I just dumped a soundbar above my HDTV and have some storage available! BUT that CPO box is $54 on Amazon USA - for those who have been researching, any 'cheaper' offers around? I could cull out most of my previously listed CDs w/ this replacement box? Not in in hurry, though. ;) Dave
ADDENDUM: OK, after checking a few of my 'across the pond' sites, JPC has the box for $35 (pic below) - but there is that fixed shipping price, SO I'll need to add some items - let me browse the site. :)
P.S. - my JPC cart is now showing 25 Euros, so down to $30 USD - boy that's nearly half price from Amazon USA - definitely need to add a few more items and make an order - :)
P.S.S. - made the order for $30 USD - added a few other items to even out the shipping - :)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-GmBscfg/0/e5c5157a/O/Bocch_Goritzki.png)
Orders from outside the E.U. are not subject to VAT or some other tax, which make it a nice deal - for US customers anyway (exchange is more or less at par and shipping is affordable). For your North of the border neighbour though the exchange is 55% AND shipping (in euros of course) is much more expensive. They jacked up the shipping charges to over double what they were last I checked (last week). We're talking more like 57$ here :(
Quote from: André on September 26, 2017, 04:03:34 PM
Orders from outside the E.U. are not subject to VAT or some other tax, which make it a nice deal - for US customers anyway (exchange is more or less at par and shipping is affordable). For your North of the border neighbour though the exchange is 55% AND shipping (in euros of course) is much more expensive. They jacked up the shipping charges to over double what they were last I checked (last week). We're talking more like 57$ here :(
Sorry
André - did not know that there was that much difference - Dave
Les deux Journées/ Le porteur d'eau
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41T8J5KN7JL.jpg)
After Médée, this is the most successful opera Cherubini composed. It was created in 1800 (Napoleon era) and recounts an episode of the French revolution. To avoid censorship, the action was transposed under Mazarin cardinal regence.
The musical writing is very classical -very Mozartian in many ways- more so than in his earlier operas Médée, Lodoiska, Kourkougi. For this reason, I much prefer Médée and Lodoiska, far more dramatic and musically more inventive.
Luigi TTT! - well, there has been some recent Boccherini activity in the listening thread, which might just be needed in this dormant thread started by me back in 2008! So, please for those posting about Luigi, add some comments here. For myself, I now have over 70 CDs of his instrumental music w/ some duplication, e.g. Cello Concertos and Guitar Quintets - I've attached that portion of my database (may need a click to see better) for those who may be just getting into Boccherini and want some suggestions; also for the latter, go back to my opening posts for some bio and links to his works. Dave :)
I had a request from Dave to visit this thread which I had not done before. I do not believe that I can add anything substantial by way of contributing but Dave is a good guy so I made an effort on his behalf. :)
I have always liked the music of Boccherini, who indeed could not, but I am most certainly no expert on it.
I recently acquired this wonderful set performed by Europa Galante. They certainly need no introduction to people here and I would be a long term admirer of their music making.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71Jij-7rACL._AC_SL1200_.jpg)
Whether it has been the amount of elapsed time since I have listened to any of Boccherini's music or whether this set was so good that it made such a big impression on me I am still uncertain. Either way, It was a most enjoyable and engaging set of listening sessions.
I will simply cross post some comments.
Quote
Guitar Quintet IV G448 Fandango: This is very fine and refined music and music making. The string quartet and the guitar synchronize harmoniously throughout the presentation. The musical language is very engaging and appealing. The tempo changes throughout the work add great contrast, excitement, tension, drama and energy to the work as a whole. Most enjoyable and engaging music and music making. The slow movements are equally successful in delivering the musical message. The final movement is a really wonderful display of this superb music. It is a tremendous and vigorous performance.
Guitar Quintet "La reiterate di Madrid G.453: The music of the opening movement is very elegant, beguiling and refined and it is wonderfully presented here. The extensive slow movement is also very elegant and restrained in tone, in a wonderful way. The string quartet writing is particularly fine here. I really liked the light and graceful third movement. I find the writing for both the guitar and the cello noteworthy in this movement. I really like the music in the final movement. It is very determined and deliberate [for want of better expressions] and I find it very engaging. How wonderful is that fade out at the conclusion of the work! This is a really very fine work by any standard.
String Quartet IV Op. 24/6: What a wonderful work this is. The music flows so effortlessly throughout.
String Quintet Op. 25/1: The music in the opening section of the first movement is quite forlorn and intense. It reminded me of some of JS Bach's Trauermusik. The tempo soon picks up but the tone is still somewhat wonderfully subdued. This tone prevails somewhat throughout the work with its charming and elegant music.
String Quintet Op. 25/4: Here is more elegant and utterly charming music.
String Quintet Op. 25/6: This is elegant and beguiling music from the first note to the last. The regrettably short interlude where the cello is made to sound like a spanish guitar is wonderful.
At the conclusion to my listening to this Europa Galante set I asked the question: Is Boccherini a really serious rival to Haydn in the areas of charm, grace and elegance in chamber music at least?
I answered myself with: Revisiting his music after a long absence, via this wonderful set, I really do believe so.
The topic has previously been discussed here, I know, but anyone that is interested in the Chamber Music of Boccherini will find the jump into his Symphonies an easy one [and indeed vice-versa].
His Symphonic writing is quite akin to chamber music in its structure, presentation and feel. The music is pleasant, melodic and quite inventive so it keeps one's attention. The playing by the relatively small forces under Goritzky maintains a chamber atmosphere and preserves a sense of intimacy which I think both suits and enhances the music by revealing its inherent sparkle through the lighter textures.
The Symphonic music is definitely worth exploring as indeed, if you have not already done so, is the Chamber Music. He is definitely a composer worth your time.
Thanks Fergus for your fine contributions to Luigi's thread! 8)
My database is done in the Numbers app on my Apple laptops so cannot get a LOT of detail into each listing, but for those 'prolific' composers, I keep more specific details in Google Docs and have a Boccherini document - below is just part of the works owned showing String Quartets & Quintets w/ their Gerard & Opus numbers - according to this great SOURCE (https://www.musiqueorguequebec.ca/catal/boccherini/boclchb5.html), the Op. 25 Quintets are G. 295-300, i.e. not in my collection of nearly 3 dozen (of course he wrote many more!). Dave :)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-q5LcF8D/0/d4a02c50/O/BocchWorksOwed.png)
Quote from: mc ukrneal on September 25, 2017, 07:13:25 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/510gro5slvL.jpg)
While I've enjoyed the set, it does take up a lot of room as it is simply 8 discs put together.
Quote from: Florestan on September 26, 2017, 07:23:39 AM
Beside the fabulous performance, a big plus on the Goritzki's side are the liner notes: some of the most complete and informative ever.
This is a really wonderful set of performances and is a must for every serious Boccherini fan.
Quote from: aligreto on May 30, 2021, 08:39:06 AM
This is a really wonderful set of performances and is a must for every serious Boccherini fan.
The Goritzki CPO box does take up space (8 jewel cases) and is over 7 hrs of music - for those wanting just a 'sampling', a number of other recordings have been mentioned in previous posts - in my collection, I also have the 2-CDs w/ Michael Erxleben (came as part of a 10-CD Capriccio box), and contains 7 symphonies (Nos. 13, 15, 16-20) - attached are some reviews of the Goritzki box and the Erxleben recordings. Dave :)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61jczaImiBS._SL1200_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51gSO67R11L.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/415NM1DXDPL.jpg)
Either way, people, sample the symphonies ;)
I've wishlisted the set, but noticed Amazon lists another CD that's not part of it.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61QbN20IbPL.jpg)
Meanwhile I've just received this set
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41O6UImjpYL.jpg)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61ny92OY--L.jpg)
Quote from: JBS on May 30, 2021, 06:14:08 PM
I've wishlisted the set, but noticed Amazon lists another CD that's not part of it.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61QbN20IbPL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71ByPZmw6cL._SL1200_.jpg)
Meanwhile I've just received this set
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41O6UImjpYL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61ny92OY--L.jpg)
Well, looks like the
Goritzki CD (inserted the front cover above) is a mixture of different works, including two cello concertos (Luigi's cello works, sonatas and concertos are all delights so just a small sampling on that disc). As to the
Flute Quintets, the 3-CD set from Brilliant includes his Opus numbers in that genre (my recordings of the same works shown below) - I also have Rampal doing a collection of 6 which followed the Op. 55 set w/ the Gerard numbers listed (Source (https://www.musiqueorguequebec.ca/catal/boccherini/boclchb5a.html#419444)); one issue of interest on this 3-disc set is whether period instruments are used? Dave :)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-J9Wqr6h/0/c37ae364/O/BoccheriniFlute.png)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on May 30, 2021, 06:46:04 PM
Well, looks like the Goritzki CD (inserted the front cover above) is a mixture of different works, including two cello concertos (Luigi's cello works, sonatas and concertos are all delights so just a small sampling on that disc). As to the Flute Quintets, the 3-CD set from Brilliant includes his Opus numbers in that genre (my recordings of the same works shown below) - I also have Rampal doing a collection of 6 which followed the Op. 55 set w/ the Gerard numbers listed (Source (https://www.musiqueorguequebec.ca/catal/boccherini/boclchb5a.html#419444)); one issue of interest on this 3-disc set is whether period instruments are used? Dave :)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-J9Wqr6h/0/c37ae364/O/BoccheriniFlute.png)
The flute and viola are modern copies of 18th century instruments, the cello is dated 1922, the violins are 18th century instruments, and the artist bio for the quartet talk about HIP practice and continued work on the "Early Music scene", while the flautist's bio says he studied historical flutes but now plays 18th to 20th century chamber music. So it seems PI adjacent.
I have the Auser Musici CD.
Quote from: JBS on May 30, 2021, 07:47:56 PM
The flute and viola are modern copies of 18th century instruments, the cello is dated 1922, the violins are 18th century instruments, and the artist bio for the quartet talk about HIP practice and continued work on the "Early Music scene", while the flautist's bio says he studied historical flutes but now plays 18th to 20th century chamber music. So it seems PI adjacent.
I have the Auser Musici CD.
Thanks for the information above - need to read up more on the Brilliant release, especially if period flute copies were used. Just checked my 4 recordings of Luigi's flute works (shown below - also * in the quote) - from reading the booklets, only Carlo Ipata w/ the Auser Musici (Op. 19) uses a period flute, a replica by R. Tutz after Gresner; others appear to be 'modern' flutes.
Boccherini wrote a lot of flute music for various chamber combinations (could find only 2 concertos (G. 489/575) - the listing quoted below is from the outstanding Quebec catalog (LINK given there) - I count over 50 compositions; the * ones are in my collections, as stated, including the Divertimenti - I would love to hear some of those early works, particularly w/ the clarinet - will check Spotify and Amazon later. P.S. reviews attached of the 3 CD Brilliant set for those interested. Dave :)
Addendum: flute used by Rafael de Torres is one after August Grenser (a=430 Hz) by Martin Wenner (2010); Brilliant booklet attached HERE (https://www.brilliantclassics.com/media/1621993/digital-booklet-boccherini-complete-flute-quintets.pdf).
QuoteG. 155-158 (No Opus) Trios for flute
G. 260/1-3 (Op. 5) Quartets for flute
G. 261 (No Opus) Quartets for Flute
G. 262/1-3 (No Opus) Clarinet/Flute Quartets
G. 263/1-3 (No Opus) Clarinet/Flute Quartets
G. 264/1-3 (No Opus) Clarinet/Flute Quartets
G. 419-424 (Op. 17) Flute Quintets*
G. 425-430 (Op. 19) Flute Quintets*
G. 431-436 (Op. 55) Flute Quintets*
G. 437-442 (No Opus) Flute Quintets*
G. 461-466 (Op. 16) Flute Sextets*
G. 489 & 575 (No Opus) Flute Concertos
G. 492/1-6 (Op. 16) Flute Divertimento
* recordings I own; G = Gérard; (Source (https://www.musiqueorguequebec.ca/catal/boccherini/bocl.html#Oeuvre))
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/711vSp%2BHxxL._SL1200_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51EcFA2gOBL.jpg) (https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzk5ODkzNy4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1NTEzMDg3OTl9) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81M%2BG3W-UML._SL1500_.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on May 31, 2021, 07:00:18 AM
Thanks for the information above - need to read up more on the Brilliant release, especially if period flute copies were used. Just checked my 4 recordings of Luigi's flute works (shown below - also * in the quote) - from reading the booklets, only Carlo Ipata w/ the Auser Musici (Op. 19) uses a period flute, a replica by R. Tutz after Gresner; others appear to be 'modern' flutes.................
Dave :)
Addendum: flute used by Rafael de Torres is one after August Grenser (a=430 Hz) by Martin Wenner (2010); Brilliant booklet attached HERE (https://www.brilliantclassics.com/media/1621993/digital-booklet-boccherini-complete-flute-quintets.pdf).
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/711vSp%2BHxxL._SL1200_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51EcFA2gOBL.jpg) (https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzk5ODkzNy4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1NTEzMDg3OTl9) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81M%2BG3W-UML._SL1500_.jpg)
Well, I decided to add the Torres 3-CD set of
Flute Quintets (Op. 17, 19, 55) (below left), a period instrument recording w/ the flute copy described in the quote above; of the recordings above shown, Ipata w/ Auser Musici also uses a period flute copy (also described above); the others appear to be modern instrument recordings, including Rampal doing the non-Opus numbered works, G.437-39;441-2. For those interested in the
Oboe Quintets (below right) - the recording in my collection is from the 10-disc Capriccio box w/ Lajos Lencsés on presumably a modern instrument. For those wanting to add flute recordings to their collection, reviews are attached of most shown - for starters, I'd suggest the three disc box w/ Torres, inexpensive and covers all of the Opus sets. Dave :)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41O6UImjpYL.jpg) (https://www.chandos.net/artwork/C10454.jpg)
Next to those CPO, Naxos, Hyperion, Capriccio, Sony and Brilliant Classics discs of Flute and Oboe Quintets, I have one more, this one:
(https://i.discogs.com/VoM0WKCIqQhfNAz1JgRTzXBTDyvwkNNTAZpX7cNYJVw/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:543/w:550/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTI3NzE4/MTgtMTMwMDU1MzEw/NS5qcGVn.jpeg)
These performances are also great, valuable addition to the above!
Quote from: Spenserian on July 01, 2022, 06:59:02 AM
Next to those CPO, Naxos, Hyperion, Capriccio, Sony and Brilliant Classics discs of Flute and Oboe Quintets, I have one more, this one:
(https://i.discogs.com/VoM0WKCIqQhfNAz1JgRTzXBTDyvwkNNTAZpX7cNYJVw/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:543/w:550/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTI3NzE4/MTgtMTMwMDU1MzEw/NS5qcGVn.jpeg) (https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-ncdP8dq/0/119441f5/O/Boccherini_FluteJaermann.png)
These performances are also great, valuable addition to the above!
Hi
Spenserian - welcome to the GMG forum - thanks for posting yet another set of
Flute Quintets - inserted above the 6 works on the recording from Boccherini's early Op. 17 & 19 sets of six works (Source (https://www.musiqueorguequebec.ca/catal/boccherini/boclchb5a.html#419444)) - he wrote another 14 or so quintets from the link - just curious if the notes indicate whether a period flute was used? Thanks - Dave :)
Notes give no indication, it seems to be a modern flute. Reviewer on musicweb (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2003/may03/Boccherini_flute_quintets.htm) was ecstatic: "If Boccherini had written just one of these quintets and nothing more he would be regarded as a great composer"!
Have discovered three more CDs of Boccherini flute quintets, will try and get these and report back:
(https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b2731e847837ea228c28b36b3878)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51IpuoXravL._AC_SX466_.jpg)
(https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b2737e97f52721d5999a8808386d)
And this disc has two more:
(https://media.s-bol.com/wR5rvmvknBO8/BLvgOON/550x550.jpg)
Quote from: Spenserian on July 02, 2022, 12:56:41 AM
Notes give no indication, it seems to be a modern flute. Reviewer on musicweb (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2003/may03/Boccherini_flute_quintets.htm) was ecstatic: "If Boccherini had written just one of these quintets and nothing more he would be regarded as a great composer"!
Have discovered three more CDs of Boccherini flute quintets, will try and get these and report back:
(https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b2731e847837ea228c28b36b3878) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51IpuoXravL._AC_SX466_.jpg) (https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b2737e97f52721d5999a8808386d) (https://media.s-bol.com/wR5rvmvknBO8/BLvgOON/550x550.jpg)
And this disc has two more:
Great searching - will be interested in your comments if these are available for purchase, DLs, or streaming - have not checked on Spotify. Now, the previous recording a few posts back is available at BRO (https://www.broinc.com/media?s=boccherini+flute), but I already have duplicates in those Opus #s - would like to obtain some period performances in the later works? Dave :)
(https://i.discogs.com/eH_60C1r-oRUdXCq5vmqi9P2lnbopImEosNLC6TpGpk/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:597/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTM3Mjcw/MzktMTQxODk5MDA4/Ny0yNzIxLmpwZWc.jpeg)
https://www.discogs.com/master/2517115-Luigi-Boccherini-Quartetto-Esterh%C3%A1zy-Streichquintette
Very much enjoying this LP, which has been transferred on symphonyshare - very good transfer
Quote from: Spenserian on July 02, 2022, 12:56:41 AM
(https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b2737e97f52721d5999a8808386d)
This disc has the only other performances, that I know of, of a number of the flute quintets without opus numbers premiered on record by Rampal. They only managed to get 3 on the disc because they take all the repeats, so in the third movement of the G439 they last over 7 minutes, Rampal only about 3:55. Quintetto Tourte's playing in that same movement is faster though. A valuable addition, I think.
Just finished a new biography on
Luigi Boccherini (1743-1805):
Luigi Boccherini: Musica Amorosa (2022) by Babette Kaiserkern (short bio of her below from this Amazon LINK (https://www.amazon.com/Luigi-Boccherini-Amorosa-Babette-Kaiserkern/dp/0995757461/ref=sr_1_1?crid=27JYWOGK1N9NP&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.piomD7yzEB7K09Qn_5Cr3X2u_Vmh6rHK8IhUbqKwXALGjHj071QN20LucGBJIEps.O7Ce8-iXdcqWrhts7XkeW7bxi3r-qTFfna_jit_1Cxc&dib_tag=se&keywords=boccherini+amorosa&qid=1709324976&s=books&sprefix=boccherini+amorosa%2Cstripbooks%2C93&sr=1-1) - fuller description of the 262 page book also) - written originally in German, translated well into English by Rhona Brose; short forward by cellist Steven Isserlis.)
The book is $62 USD on Amazon so I did an inter-library loan through our local library. The book is researched well with Kaiserkern alternating chapters between chronologic biographical sections on the composer's life and chapters on the major genres of his music concentrating on the chamber works; short chronology of Luigi's life plus an Opus catalog of his works (including Gerard numbers) at the end. The only other bio I've read on him was written in the 1960s by
Germaine de Rothschild - although I don't remember the latter well at the moment, the newer one is certainly a recommendation. Dave
QuoteBabette Kaiserkern holds a doctorate in Humanities from the Freie Universitat, Berlin with a focus on Hispanic literature and music history. She has published essays on European and Latin American cultural history. As a jounalist,she collaborates regularly with music festivals, orchestras and magazines in Berlin and Potsdam and lectures widely on Boccherini, his life and work.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51jInrsW3fL.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/A1tuyaz+eBL._SL1500_.jpg)
Do the biographies comment on the waning of Boccherini's fame at the end of his life and afterwards?
A few days ago I ragequit another Hurwitzer video because while I sympathize with promoting underrated composers, including Boccherini, DH again came up with BS about "German musicologists" being responsible for the fact that the Italian Boccherini ended up at the margins of the repertoire.
This does not compute. There was no established musicology before the late 19th century; sure, there had been music criticism and commentary since Burney and before in the 18th century. But how on earth should some German critics or professors decades after Boccherini's death manage to "promote" Haydn and Mozart to the negligence of Boccherini?
This would simply not have worked if enough works by Boccherini had been repertoire staples in 1890 or so (like presumeably some Haydn, Mozart and lots of Beethoven was). Neither would Spanish or Italian musicians have cared much about what some Professor Doktor Friedrich Wilhelm von Bieberach would have written on Boccherini being inferior to Mozart, if they had wanted to play Boccherini.
There's also been by now 100 years or more in which (German or Nongerman) musicologists and musicians could have promoted Boccherini (cf. the revivals of Monteverdi and Vivaldi in the mid 20th century). But if they did it, with only moderate success. The Quartetto italiano recorded one single Boccherini LP and it apparently was never issued on CD (before their big box came out).
(Edit: Apparantly Q Italiano had made another LP in the 50s and at that time there were also a few recordings by Q Carmirelli and by a Boccherini quintet (of quintets), so there was already an effort contemporary to the Vivaldi revival.)
Methinks such negligence can hardly be blamed on stuffy nationalist German professors around 1900.
(It's also ironic that a considerable amount of Boccherini recordings of the last 30 years was on German labels Capriccio and cpo, so much for the evil huns suppressing Italian music in favor of Reger's or Pfitzner's...)
The only attack on Boccherini that I know of coming from a German is Louis Spohr's comment upon hearing a quintet: This is not music, but Spohr had a vested interest in promoting his own quintets so it's hardly an authoritative comment (actually, it's stupid). Boccherini's music was very popular in France in the first half of the 19th century but its falling from grace cannot be attributable to any German conspiracy unless we will admit that the same Germans also plotted Haydn's falling from grace, whose reputation was at a very low ebb at the end of the 19th century. :D
Quote from: Jo498 on March 04, 2024, 04:21:22 AMDo the biographies comment on the waning of Boccherini's fame at the end of his life and afterwards?
A few days ago I ragequit another Hurwitzer video because while I sympathize with promoting underrated composers, including Boccherini, DH again came up with BS about "German musicologists" being responsible for the fact that the Italian Boccherini ended up at the margins of the repertoire..................
Well, I don't remember much about the older bio (read a while back) - the new one does cover the end of Boccherini's life well. Below is a chronology I put together from several sources; he was doing well working for Don Luis (1770-85), then as 'chamber composer' for Prince/King Frederick William II (1787-97); whether he lived in Berlin or stayed in Spain during the second employment is uncertain but his manuscripts were the property of the Prussian King and were not published (so no royalties, but his salary was apparently quite decent). After 1797, his life became more difficult financially and also tragically (losing 2 daughters and his second wife); some money from publishing and possibly other now lesser sources? He died in Mardrid and his body lay buried in the Pontifical Basilica of St. Michael in Madrid until 1927, when his remains were repatriated and buried in the church of San Francesco in his native Lucca.
Also discussed at the end of the newer books was the 1993 exhumation and autopsy of Boccherini's body with findings of arthritis and bony deformities, in part related to playing the cello for so many years. His death was due likely to a respiratory infection added to chronic tuberculosis. Dave
Quote1743 - Born in Lucca
1757 - 64 - Vienna Trips
1764 - Back in Lucca
1765 - Milan (Sammartini)
1766 - Death father; left for Paris
1768 - Madrid ('persuaded Spanish ambassador)
1770 - Married first wife, soprano Clementina Pellicia
1770-85 - Employment of Infante Luis Antonio (king's brother)
1785 - Both Don Luis and his first wife, Clementina died+
1787 - Married second wife, Joaquina Porreti (no children)
1787-97 - Appointed chamber composer Frederick William II*/**
1802 - Death of 2 daughters
1805 - Death of 2nd wife/3rd daughter
1805 - Died Madrid
*Prussian Prince then King; successor cancelled pension
**Boccherini may have lived in Berlin or stayed in Spain
+Produced 5 children (3 girls; 2 boys) - only the boys survived Luigi
Thank you for the review of both Boccherini books, which I have eagerly wanted to add to my library, only cost prohibiting me. Quite a surprise to find Jan Swafford noting in his biography of Mozart, "The most popular quintets of the day were the slight and mellifluous ones of Boccherini." Mellifluous, sure, but not that slight, and the adjectives together reek of the usual dismissal of Boccherini as merely galant. I'm quite curious, too, about Daniel Heartz' description of Boccherini in his Music in the European Capitals: The Galant Style, 1720-1780, from his three part opus about music of the classical era. Sadly I have only managed to acquire the other two volumes, and no the one that most intrigued me. Classical composers who are not Haydn, Mozart or Beethoven, perhaps Gluck, remain woefully underrated, and Boccherini surely is among those who should be reappraised as more than 'slight and mellifluous'.
Quote from: Spenserian on May 10, 2024, 06:55:01 AMMusic in the European Capitals: The Galant Style, 1720-1780
You can read it on Archive.org (requires free-of-charge registration).
For chamber music of Classical era Boccherini has become my frequent go-to... :D I think that is where he excelled.
I recently did a comparative listening of Boccherini's six string trios opus 47:
(https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b2739a083146f081f2f449d6320b) (https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b2736bf4c14edb9b3a61e5534fd9) (https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b27375fefc22ff764a8eac7ae15e)
Though Europa Galante and La Real Cámara are both my favourite ensembles in Boccherini, I kind of expected the energetic Fabio Biondi to end on top. But no, La Real Cámara takes it away in a subtle but expressive interpretation with close rapport between the players. Biondi et al. are not as energetic as expected, on the contrary, and the ensemble playing sounds disjointed in comparison. The Germans on Audite offer no serious competition: conservative, dutiful playing.
Quote from: Que on May 12, 2024, 01:45:10 AMFor chamber music of Classical era Boccherini has become my frequent go-to... :D I think that where he excelled in.
I recently did a comparative listening of Boccherini's six string trios opus 47:
(https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b2739a083146f081f2f449d6320b) (https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b2736bf4c14edb9b3a61e5534fd9) (https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b27375fefc22ff764a8eac7ae15e)
Though Europa Galante and La Real Cámera are both my favourite ensembles in Boccherini, I kind of expected the energetic Fabio Biondi to end on top. But no, La Real Cámera takes it away in a subtle but expressive interpretation with close rapport between the players. Biondi et al. are not as energetic as expected, on the contrary, and the ensemble playing sounds disjointed in comparison. The Germans on Audite offer no serious competition: conservative, dutiful playing.
Thanks
Que - no need to change my collection! ;D Dave
Seems like Real Cámara recorded a lot more Boccherini, great, was totally unfamiliar with them and those recordings!
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71ByPZmw6cL._SL1200_.jpg)
This one was my first Boccherini album (recommended by Dave Hurwitz). Absolutely lovely!
Sampling some of the other albums, I've taken a liking towards the string sextets. But I'm still learning and discovering this fantastic composer.