I've been listening to many orchestral works by this early 20th century (d. 1918) American composer,Charles T. Griffes. I'v read his bio and read several studies of his work. His music tends to be predominantly Euro-oriented; and, accordingly, they do not evince that singular 'American sound" so prevalent in the works of Copeland, Harris, Robert Ward, Pershechetti et. al. A few years ago I acquired sheet mucic and played several pianistic works by Griffes. I particularly love "The Vale of Dreams," and "Barcarolle." Anyone out there who plays these and/or other impressionist scores by Griffes?
Why is it that you and I have so similar tastes?
CTG is one of my favorites, but NOT for his orchestral music. What I love are his piano output. From White Peacock to the Sonata, his piano works reminds one of Debussy but has his own unique voice.
My favorite recording, if you can find it, is an old NONESUCH recording by the American composer pianist Noel Lee. I do not think it has been issued on CD. Of course, u can find his complete piano works on CD from NAXOS, played by Lewin. It is a decent recording, but not as dreamy as Lee.
The only music by Griffes I'm familiar with are the orchestral works recorded by JoAnn Falletta for Naxos. I enjoy that quite a bit when in the mood for lush, dreamy, Debussy-influenced late Romanticism. Pity he died so young. Thanks for suggesting his piano music, Paul. Since Lee is OOP, I may give the Naxos a try.
Just have 2 CDs of Griffes' compositions below:
Orchestral Pieces on Naxos w/ Falletta
Piano Works w/ Denver Oldham - have not listened to this disc in a while (older recordings from 1977/81), so hard to provide an endorsement, however, rather two 'mixed' reviews by the Amazonians HERE (http://www.amazon.com/Griffes-Collected-Works-for-Piano/dp/B0000030G2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1232381535&sr=1-1); his piano music is enjoyable, so looking forward to some possible recommendations; the Lewin set on Naxos seems to also have received variable comments - :-\
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/457667932_DiQU7-M.jpg) (http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/457667935_xvuNV-M.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan on January 19, 2009, 07:15:13 AM
Piano Works w/ Denver Oldham - have not listened to this disc in a while (older recordings from 1977/81), so hard to provide an endorsement, however, rather two 'mixed' reviews by the Amazonians HERE (http://www.amazon.com/Griffes-Collected-Works-for-Piano/dp/B0000030G2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1232381535&sr=1-1); his piano music is enjoyable, so looking forward to some possible recommendations; the Lewin set on Naxos seems to also have received variable comments - :-\
Oldham's piano sound has no sense of tone color whatsoever. I don't have this CD but have two other recordings by him. Lewin is a bit better, but his touch can sometimes be too harsh on this music. Now, if only one of those Debussyan pianists would play this music!
I will get my Noel Lee transfered to CD next month, if only to preserve it better than a cassette can.
I like The Pleasure Dome of Kubla Khan and The White Peacock, originally discovered on an old RCA LP. The CD below is worth exploring too:
Quote from: springrite on January 19, 2009, 07:21:11 AM
Oldham's piano sound has no sense of tone color whatsoever. I don't have this CD but have two other recordings by him. Lewin is a bit better, but his touch can sometimes be too harsh on this music. Now, if only one of those Debussyan pianists would play this music!
I will get my Noel Lee transfered to CD next month, if only to preserve it better than a cassette can.
Hi
Paul - I have the Oldham comin' up next on my CD player just to re-fresh my memory, but that is sort of my remembrance w/ this disc; believe that I picked it up through BRO, so not a major expense - would love to hear the music played well myself! Dave :)
I have just been listening to the outstanding CD pictured below. I loved everything on it (Griffes, Copland, Gould, Hanson) and the performances conducted by the late Charles Gerhardt - a great conductor, are terrific. Also the CD has a depth and warmth to the recording quality which makes it sound like you are listening to an audiophile vinyl LP. The performance of Hanson's 'Romantic Symphony' is the best I know (Like Koussevitsky's recording of Hanson's Third Symphony). But, the Griffes's scores - in particular 'Kubla Khan' are magnificent - so much better than the Naxos CD. The cover photo, which includes the twin towers added a poignancy to the whole thing. A great CD of wonderful music.
Quote from: springrite on January 17, 2009, 05:53:05 AM
Why is it that you and I have so similar tastes?
CTG is one of my favorites, but NOT for his orchestral music. What I love are his piano output. From White Peacock to the Sonata, his piano works reminds one of Debussy but has his own unique voice.
My favorite recording, if you can find it, is an old NONESUCH recording by the American composer pianist Noel Lee. I do not think it has been issued on CD. Of course, u can find his complete piano works on CD from NAXOS, played by Lewin. It is a decent recording, but not as dreamy as Lee.
Interesting that you point out similarities in our mutual preferences in terms of individual composers. Decades ago I would listen to all varieties of music from Baroque to 20th century avant-garde. Eliot Carter became one of my favorite Modernist innovators. During the last two or three decades I have retreated and have become more exclusiveand conservative in my musical taste. To be sure I still listen to many composers, as do so many well informed posters in this forum. I tend to prefer the style suggestive of modally harmonic, impressionistic, color oriented works exemplified by the likes of Rachmaninoff, Scriabin, Arnold Bax, Debussy, Ravel, Joseph Marx, Sibelius, and many others, including the piano works of Griffis, Reichel, Janacek, Palmgren, Schmitt (Ombres), Cyril Scott, etc. I particularly like the few compositions of two sensualist "colorists": Alexander Krein and the Finn Vaino Raitio. I have four pieces by Raitio, but they are considerably advanced. I can only manage to "dig out' those passages so appealing to me. The Raitio 4 pieces are unfortunately not recorded. These plus other composers, known or relatively unknown, make my day.
This is the one Griffes recording I have.
(http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/music/0506/classical/mono/griffes.jpg)
Why this wonderful Mercury Living Presence recording was never released on CD is a mystery to me.
Quote from: Scarpia on November 06, 2009, 12:53:23 PM
This is the one Griffes recording I have.
(http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/music/0506/classical/mono/griffes.jpg)
Why this wonderful Mercury Living Presence recording was never released on CD is a mystery to me.
Picture doesn't seem to have come out.
Quote from: vandermolen on November 06, 2009, 02:04:50 PM
Picture doesn't seem to have come out.
Hmm, the external image link seems to come and go.
It is Howard Hanson conducting the Eastman Rochester Symphony, Griffes Pleasure Dome, White Peacock, Clouds, Bachanale, and some Loeffler stuff. A Mono Mercury Living Presence LP.
I'll need dig into the piano music more- I have all the current Naxos discs, and Kubla Khan I really like. (Although it really should have an Abyssinian maid on the dulcimer....)
Why Griffes and Koechlin don't get more recognition as impressionist/colorists I don't know.
Quote from: jowcol on November 07, 2009, 10:37:19 AM
I'll need dig into the piano music more- I have all the current Naxos discs, and Kubla Khan I really like. (Although it really should have an Abyssinian maid on the dulcimer....)
Why Griffes and Koechlin don't get more recognition as impressionist/colorists I don't know.
I gree; at least Griffes' works are recorded. I've heard some Koechlin but don't know his works all that well. Another composer whose name I listed much earlier in the forum is the Finn Vaino Raitio. Not prolific, but what his few works are very appealing to me. I wish his 4 piano works (titles in Finnish) which I own in manuscript but are not recorded. His "Moonlight On Jupiter" is also unavailable. Just thought I'd mention him as a fellow "colorist" in regards to impressionist music.
Quote from: Scarpia on November 06, 2009, 02:08:25 PM
Hmm, the external image link seems to come and go.
It is Howard Hanson conducting the Eastman Rochester Symphony, Griffes Pleasure Dome, White Peacock, Clouds, Bachanale, and some Loeffler stuff. A Mono Mercury Living Presence LP.
Sounds like a great LP - maybe they could couple it on CD with the old Mercury of Hanson's Fourth Symphony! (probably wishful thinking).
You guys need this disc:
(http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/t_200/bridgebridge9254.jpg)
Very interesting selection, and the Griffes is predictably fine:
Carpenter, J: Watercolors
Griffes: Five Songs From the Chinese, Op. 10
Harris, Roy: Give Me the Splendid Silent Sun
Parker, H: Cahal Mor of the Wine-Red Hand, Op. 40
Thomson, V: The Feast of Love
I like the Thomson a lot as well, but I need more than two listenings, this is a recent arrival.
Quote from: erato on November 08, 2009, 12:37:15 AM
You guys need this disc:
(http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/t_200/bridgebridge9254.jpg)
Very interesting selection, and the Griffes is predictably fine:
Carpenter, J: Watercolors
Griffes: Five Songs From the Chinese, Op. 10
Harris, Roy: Give Me the Splendid Silent Sun
Parker, H: Cahal Mor of the Wine-Red Hand, Op. 40
Thomson, V: The Feast of Love
I like the Thomson a lot as well, but I need more than two listenings, this is a recent arrival.
Yes, we do! Looks like a very interesting CD - but kindly be aware of my (diminishing) bank account before making these suggestions ;D
Quote from: vandermolen on November 08, 2009, 12:47:57 AM
Yes, we do! Looks like a very interesting CD - but kindly be aware of my (diminishing) bank account before making these suggestions ;D
Now look who's talking.
Quote from: erato on November 08, 2009, 12:57:10 AM
Now look who's talking.
I guess a case of 'The pot calling the kettle black'. Point taken :)
Quote from: vandermolen on November 04, 2009, 01:00:32 PMBut, the Griffes's scores - in particular 'Kubla Khan' are magnificent - so much better than the Naxos CD.
Not to hose this post down, but I find nothing wrong with the Naxos recording. In fact, it's simply the only game in town until another all-Griffes orchestral recording emerges, which I doubt will be anytime soon. Anyway, I thought Falletta did an excellent job. She clearly has this music under her grasp and understands Griffes' idiom. I'd like to hear the London Symphony Orchestra or even the Cleveland Orchestra in this music, but I'm just going to stop dreaming. :)
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 04, 2013, 08:43:37 PM
Not to hose this post down, but I find nothing wrong with the Naxos recording. In fact, it's simply the only game in town until another all-Griffes orchestral recording emerges, which I doubt will be anytime soon. Anyway, I thought Falletta did an excellent job. She clearly has this music under her grasp and understands Griffes' idiom. I'd like to hear the London Symphony Orchestra or even the Cleveland Orchestra in this music, but I'm just going to stop dreaming. :)
Point taken - maybe this is because I grew up with the Gerhardt LP.
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=rbLA6nwjeJY&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DrbLA6nwjeJY
Griffes piano sonata highly recommended
Boy, I posted back in early 2009 and still have the same 2 discs - obviously, Griffes has not been in my thoughts recently - :D
I'd love to replace that 'piano disc' but not sure about the choices (a lot of mediocre comments on Amazon, e.g. about the Naxos offerings) - NOW, there is one w/ Garrick Ohlsson (love his Chopin box) about to be released in the USA - will wait for reviews; there is also an older recording by Joseph Smith offered as an Arkiv CD-R that seems to have been well received.
But will be curious about further comments on this early 20th century American composer; unfortunately, he died @ 35 years of age from the flu - :(
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/516iiFoYUuL._SY300_.jpg) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Charles_Griffes.jpg)
Just listened to:
http://www.youtube.com/v/UBFpEpJc7PU
My first listen to Griffes and I love it. Lovely piece, great orchestration, very Debussian which was what I was expecting. Love the ending, beautiful touch with the celesta. Would be keen to hear more.
[asin]B00016ZKPS[/asin]
Anyone have any opinions on this disc? :)
Quote from: madaboutmahler on April 11, 2013, 12:52:26 PM
Just listened to:
http://www.youtube.com/v/UBFpEpJc7PU
My first listen to Griffes and I love it. Lovely piece, great orchestration, very Debussian which was what I was expecting. Love the ending, beautiful touch with the celesta. Would be keen to hear more.
[asin]B00016ZKPS[/asin]
Anyone have any opinions on this disc? :)
Yes, as it stands it's the only game in town for an all-orchestral recording of Griffes. You'll love that recording, Daniel. Plus, it's cheap as hell, so why not? :)
One work that really impressed me was
Bacchanale. It's a very short work maybe 4-5 minutes in length but a great miniature. Found a video for it:
http://www.youtube.com/v/AVgbEkBWuqs
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 11, 2013, 05:31:56 PM
Yes, as it stands it's the only game in town for an all-orchestral recording of Griffes. You'll love that recording, Daniel. Plus, it's cheap as hell, so why not? :)
One work that really impressed me was Bacchanale. It's a very short work maybe 4-5 minutes in length but a great miniature. Found a video for it:
http://www.youtube.com/v/AVgbEkBWuqs
Thanks for the link and feedback, John! Loved the Bacchanale, brilliant piece! Will definitely be getting that cd! :)
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 11, 2013, 05:31:56 PM
Yes, as it stands it's the only game in town for an all-orchestral recording of Griffes.
...almost.
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2012/Dec12/Griffes_Taylor_559724.jpg)
On the Falletta but not the Schwarz: three poems (with soprano), Clouds
On the Schwarz but not the Falletta: nothing, actually
I reviewed the Schwarz (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2012/Dec12/Griffes_Taylor_559724.htm), but didn't compare it directly to Falletta work-by-work. My summary: "As for this disc, Scott Goff's flute solo work in the Poem is extraordinary - no wonder he was with the orchestra for 42 years! - and Gerard Schwarz really understands the sensual, impressionistic idiom of the music. The sound from 1990 has aged well, though as always it's worth pointing out that the Seattle Symphony has since moved to a hall with yet finer acoustics, so don't expect the sonic opulence of the new Rimsky-Korsakov CDs."
By the way, here's another chance to point out Garrick Ohlsson's doing a Griffes piano album next month. I'm excited for it!
I'm really glad Hugo posted that YT of KUBLA. It's the very first I've heard of Griffes' music, and I think I'm going to really get into it. Add to abjectly out-of-control Naxos purchase pile!
Forgot about that Schwarz recording but it's still not an all-Griffes recording like Falletta, but it's halfway there. :)
Quote from: madaboutmahler on April 12, 2013, 05:36:19 AM
Thanks for the link and feedback, John! Loved the Bacchanale, brilliant piece! Will definitely be getting that cd! :)
Yes, Daniel, buy the Falletta Griffes recording. You won't regret it.
Quote from: SonicMan46 on April 05, 2013, 08:47:16 AM
Boy, I posted back in early 2009 and still have the same 2 discs - obviously, Griffes has not been in my thoughts recently - :D
I'd love to replace that 'piano disc' but not sure about the choices (a lot of mediocre comments on Amazon, e.g. about the Naxos offerings) - NOW, there is one w/ Garrick Ohlsson (love his Chopin box) about to be released in the USA - will wait for reviews; there is also an older recording by Joseph Smith offered as an Arkiv CD-R that seems to have been well received.
But will be curious about further comments on this early 20th century American composer; unfortunately, he died @ 35 years of age from the flu - :(
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/516iiFoYUuL._SY300_.jpg) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Charles_Griffes.jpg)
The NAXOS recording of the piano music is not up to par, at least compared to the old LP with Noel Lee, it is miles ahead of the NAXOS. So I will get the Ohlsson for sure!
I completely agree about Griffes' The Pleasure Dome of Kubla Khan, it's an absolutely wonderful work, very suggestive and evocative; I love the overwhelming energy, the orchestration, the colour and the exotic melodies expressed by this piece. I think it perfectly depicts Coleridge's poem, its dreamy visions, the incredible beauty of the landscapes where the palace stands, the haunting, romantically sublime atmospheres and the powerful images created. I'll certainly listen to more from this composer in the future. :)
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on April 12, 2013, 08:24:28 AM
I completely agree about Griffes' The Pleasure Dome of Kubla Khan, it's an absolutely wonderful work, very suggestive and evocative; I love the overwhelming energy, the orchestration, the colour and the exotic melodies expressed by this piece. I think it perfectly depicts Coleridge's poem, its dreamy visions, the incredible beauty of the landscapes where the palace stands, the haunting, romantically sublime atmospheres and the powerful images created. I'll certainly listen to more from this composer in the future. :)
Listened to it yesterday, good stuff! You should try the Bacchanale, too, Ilaria! (video posted by John a couple of posts ago)
Quote from: North Star on April 12, 2013, 08:28:39 AM
Listened to it yesterday, good stuff! You should try the Bacchanale, too, Ilaria! (video posted by John a couple of posts ago)
Thank you, Karlo, I'll have a listen to it now!
The piano sonata is a striking work - and probably his most individual.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbLA6nwjeJY
Well after 8 months or so and after being re-introduced to this thread today, I just ordered the Ohlsson CD from Amazon - finally! ;D Dave
Quote from: SonicMan46 on April 05, 2013, 08:47:16 AM
I'd love to replace that 'piano disc' but not sure about the choices (a lot of mediocre comments on Amazon, e.g. about the Naxos offerings) - NOW, there is one w/ Garrick Ohlsson (love his Chopin box) about to be released in the USA - will wait for reviews; there is also an older recording by Joseph Smith offered as an Arkiv CD-R that seems to have been well received.
But will be curious about further comments on this early 20th century American composer; unfortunately, he died @ 35 years of age from the flu - :(
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/516iiFoYUuL._SY300_.jpg) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Charles_Griffes.jpg)
I bought that recording, too, Dave. I love Impressionistic solo piano music. This is about the only style of music I can tolerate when it comes to solo piano music, though. I look forward to hearing these Griffes works.
Throw in another vote for the Griffes Piano Sonata. It's not the best written sonata ever, nor the greatest from that time period, but it sure keeps my interest and there is a lot of interesting music in it. Ohlsson did a really nice job on that new Hyperion recording. He makes a lot of the music sound better than it really is. A lot of the piano works are nice, but they just feel like they're missing something. Still, a really nice recording worth listening to.
Quote from: Dax on December 11, 2013, 09:03:01 AM
The piano sonata is a striking work - and probably his most individual.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbLA6nwjeJY
Just heard it (Lawson),... wow, such a piece!!... very dark and perfumed and exotic... some of the most exotic Piano Music I've heard... Szymanowski but from another part of the world??...
Quote from: snyprrr on January 15, 2017, 07:50:52 AM
Just heard it (Lawson),... wow, such a piece!!... very dark and perfumed and exotic... some of the most exotic Piano Music I've heard... Szymanowski but from another part of the world??...
Or Scriabin. I agree that it's a nice sonata, unfortunately when I've explored Griffes other piano pieces I was less impressed, he may be a one hit wonder.
Oh, strongly disagree - his other music is nicely on the eardrums.
Quote from: Scion7 on January 16, 2017, 02:51:17 AM
Oh, strongly disagree - his other music is nicely on the eardrums.
Looks like you and I are fans of Griffes the composer as a whole, not just one or two pieces.
Sweet thing here, The Kairn of Koridwen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-Jsfe1a58E