GMG Classical Music Forum

For a long time, I've told myself that either Tchaikovsky's No. 4 or his No. 6 'Pathetique' was my favourite. Then I listened again (and a lot) to his No. 5. It charms me in ways not so obvious as the other two, so I'm now convinced it's my favourite.

What would you say was your favourite? And if you feel like it, why?

For myself Mark, it's his Manfred Symphony, Op. 58.

After the Manfred, I would go with No. 6.

I'll be a Manfred voter, though 4 and 6 are also great contenders.

Quote from: edward on May 25, 2007, 02:53:46 PM
I'll be a Manfred.....

Which recording of this tops your list Edward?

Quote from: Bogey on May 25, 2007, 02:55:16 PM
Which recording of this tops your list Edward?

You know, I don't really know.

I've had (and enjoyed) both Jansons and Svetlanov, but there are so many I've not heard....

1. Sixth Symphony
2. Fourth Symphony
3. First Symphony
4. Manfred Symphony
5. Fifth Symphony

Love #4 the most.  The brassy opening, the pizz third movement, the finale at breakneck speed.  Great stuff.

My favourite is the 5th symphony, even though I was really tempted to pick the second symphony on the poll, just because it is SO underrated.

The 6th, bar none. It's so saddening I almost feel like Tchaikovsky has personally pulled my heart out from my  rib cage (is the heart even in the ribcage?).

Quote from: edward on May 25, 2007, 02:55:59 PM
You know, I don't really know.

I've had (and enjoyed) both Jansons and Svetlanov, but there are so many I've not heard....

There is a Michael Tilson Thomas with the LSO out there that I would love to hear, but it is packaged on a $45 dollar set. :-\

The BPO/Karajan set is the only one I own, although I have a few scattered recordings of some of the symphonies on other discs. I didn't respond to the Karajan 'sound' at first, but I've really warmed to it. If you like the Fourth Symphony, you'll probably like the way he drives it.

The Second. And the Fourth. And the Fifth. And the Sixth.



Oops!  ;D 

I can't decide between the final three ... aachggh!!

I predict that the Third will get fewest votes. ;)

I must confess I'm a Manfred man (doo wah diddy diddy)

I think the 6th symphony is his greatest, but I still have a soft spot for op. 58.

My favourite is # 1 ;D, but I readily acknowledge I consider 6 and Manfred his greatest works in the genre :D.
I like 4 and 2 :), tolerate 5 and can live without 3 :P.

His Orchestral Suites contain excellent music.

Tchaikovsky's 4th will always have its special place with me, because it was after hearing a preformance of this work that I started seriously collecting classical music. Were it not for this fact, it might be 1, 5, 6 or Manfred, but as it is, the 4th holds a place in my heart that none of the others can touch.

The 4th. And then the 6th.

The Manfred symphony, without hesitation.
And I'm glad that it's mentioned so often here - I always have the feeling it enjoys less proliferation than the "numbered" symphonies.

Q

I love the first Symphony, and then in this order, 2,3,4,5,6.
Then comes Manfred No.7! ;D

I really love the 5th symphony, my favourite, when performed properly (especially the beautiful slow parts) and the fourth Symphony I also find excellent. The first movement of the sixth is really something to treasure, but I almost always get bored in the easily repetitive march in the 3rd movement "Allegro molto vivace" (a clear exception is Mravinsky and there may be others). The 1st and 2nd symphonies are very charming pieces, while I haven't listened to the 3rd and Manfred enough yet.

No.6. The least crappy.

Thomas

........ really not sure ......... lemme think ..........


(http://www.sulis.net/five.jpg)

man...... hard to decide. It's been forever since i last listened to any of his symphonies, but I really like the last 3- EQUALLY. So I chose 6, i don't know why. Plus, the first 3 i've only heard once a long time ago, and i haven't heard the Manfred symphony, so i don't even know if i'm qualified to vote.  :-\

Winter Dreams

Sarge

I haven't explored Tchaikovsky's symphonies.

Quote from: 71 dB on May 26, 2007, 02:22:28 PM
I haven't explored Tchaikovsky's symphonies.

Than it is high time you did my friend! :)

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 26, 2007, 01:34:46 PM
Winter Dreams

Sarge

That rather a fine choice Sarge! :)

Quote from: Harry on May 26, 2007, 02:27:24 PM
Than it is high time you did my friend! :)

Why is that my friend? Are those symphonies really worth it?

Quote from: 71 dB on May 26, 2007, 02:32:21 PM
Why is that my friend? Are those symphonies really worth it?

Hearing Nos. 4-6 and the 'Manfred' are essential as far as I'm concerned.

Quote from: Mark on May 26, 2007, 02:33:52 PM
Hearing Nos. 4-6 and the 'Manfred' are essential as far as I'm concerned.

Well, I have heard #6 many times on radio. Doesn't exactly encourage to explore the rest.  ::)

Rococo Variations is my favorite work by him.

either fifth or the sixth, the rest are not worth mentioning.

Quote from: sound67 on May 26, 2007, 01:53:25 AM
No.6. The least crappy.

Thomas

Quote from: MahlerTitan on May 26, 2007, 02:57:40 PM
either fifth or the sixth, the rest are not worth mentioning.

*frowns, scratches head, and goes off to listen to Manfred for the first time*

Quote from: Mark on May 26, 2007, 02:33:52 PM
Hearing Nos. 4-6 and the 'Manfred' are essential as far as I'm concerned.

I need recommendations for Manfred.

Muti?

I'm not your man(fred) for this, George. ;D I'll let the experts answer ...

Quote from: Mark on May 26, 2007, 04:30:26 PM
I'm not your man(fred) for this, George. ;D I'll let the experts answer ...

;)

I like the Manfred alot, but this has to be the first time I've seen such interest in the symphony!  Simply amazing. :)

It also surprises me, David, that more voters like his Fifth than his Fourth. I'd expected the reverse.

Quote from: Mark on May 26, 2007, 04:44:28 PM
It also surprises me, David, that more voters like his Fifth than his Fourth. I'd expected the reverse.

Yeah I think in bigger circles you find 4 > 6 > 5 and Manfred not even considered.  Of course also people don't generally discuss say Penderecki as much as he is discussed here, we have an interesting group of listeners here, beyond the average bear.

Quote from: rubio on May 26, 2007, 01:39:48 AM
I really love the 5th symphony, my favourite, when performed properly

This is exactly what i wanted to say. the fifth is a test of every conductor, it's either a pass or a fail ! the brass section can either sound vulgar or elegent, and the dialog with the strings should be balanced. Gergiev gets an A  ;D

Manfred recommendations: they come in many coulours and flavours:

- Abravanel: brings the music closer to the Suites and the first 3 symphonies; underplays the melodrama; brings out winds to very nice effect. Slightly undernourished strings; a bit distantly recorded, but boosting the volume brings a very satisfying, natural and panoramic sound.

- Maazel: take all of the above and reverse the comments. If you like your Tchaikovsky in a neurotic, hand-wringing mood, this is the ticket. Sumptuously played and recorded.

- Markevitch: same qualities as in his well-known accounts of the numbered symphonies. Probably a first recommendation despite the 40+ year old recording date. Here's a Classicstoday review (by Dan Davis, not Hurwitz) that really sums it up very nicely: http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=5277

- Muti: a very safe version, in the best sense: superbly played, very well recorded. I find it a bit overcontrolled, but if you enjoy Muti's Tchaikovsky, he certainly makes this Manfred proud. I'd say this is the most 'symphonic' Manfred around.

- Svetlanov: recorded it twice. I didn't hear them, but apparently the 1992 is exhilarating (French critics are lost in admiration for this version). He omits the organ choral at the end though ???.

- Toscanini: 3 extant recordings. The NBC from 1953 is widely available. AT maked a big cut in the finale :-\. But you'll be shaken all the same: it's hugely dramatic and played to the hilt by the orchestra.

There are other versions by Chailly, Masur, Pletnev,  Janssons, Rozhdestvenski, etc. From reviews I've read, the Rozh accounts are the most exciting around, bar none. But they're hard to find and in raw sound. I've heard the Pletnev and Janssons and they're not in the running despite superb playing and sound.

Quote from: Lilas Pastia on May 27, 2007, 06:22:03 AM
- Markevitch: same qualities as in his well-known accounts of the numbered symphonies. Probably a first recommendation despite the 40+ year old recording date. Here's a Classicstoday review (by Dan Davis, not Hurwitz) that really sums it up very nicely: http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=5277

Wholeheartedly seconded. Sounds very good for its age, I think.
I haven't heard Svetlanov either - might be an interesting alternative take.

Q

Quote from: Lilas Pastia on May 27, 2007, 06:22:03 AM
Manfred recommendations: they come in many coulours and flavours:

- Maazel: take all of the above and reverse the comments. If you like your Tchaikovsky in a neurotic, hand-wringing mood, this is the ticket. Sumptuously played and recorded.

Good to hear this.  Thanks!

Quote from: Lilas Pastia on May 27, 2007, 06:22:03 AM
Manfred recommendations: they come in many coulours and flavours:

- Abravanel: brings the music closer to the Suites and the first 3 symphonies; underplays the melodrama; brings out winds to very nice effect. Slightly undernourished strings; a bit distantly recorded, but boosting the volume brings a very satisfying, natural and panoramic sound.

- Maazel: take all of the above and reverse the comments. If you like your Tchaikovsky in a neurotic, hand-wringing mood, this is the ticket. Sumptuously played and recorded.

- Markevitch: same qualities as in his well-known accounts of the numbered symphonies. Probably a first recommendation despite the 40+ year old recording date. Here's a Classicstoday review (by Dan Davis, not Hurwitz) that really sums it up very nicely: http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=5277

- Muti: a very safe version, in the best sense: superbly played, very well recorded. I find it a bit overcontrolled, but if you enjoy Muti's Tchaikovsky, he certainly makes this Manfred proud. I'd say this is the most 'symphonic' Manfred around.

- Svetlanov: recorded it twice. I didn't hear them, but apparently the 1992 is exhilarating (French critics are lost in admiration for this version). He omits the organ choral at the end though ???.

- Toscanini: 3 extant recordings. The NBC from 1953 is widely available. AT maked a big cut in the finale :-\. But you'll be shaken all the same: it's hugely dramatic and played to the hilt by the orchestra.

There are other versions by Chailly, Masur, Pletnev,  Janssons, Rozhdestvenski, etc. From reviews I've read, the Rozh accounts are the most exciting around, bar none. But they're hard to find and in raw sound. I've heard the Pletnev and Janssons and they're not in the running despite superb playing and sound.

Thanks a lot for that!  :)

How's the Pletnev?

I didn't think much of it. It is rather disjointed. There are impressive bits, but it never coheres into a satisfying whole. If you google Manfred Pletnev and check the reviews on the Amazon sites you'll find a lot of reviews, and they're all over the place. Count me among the unimpressed. Same with Janssons: some find him terrific, others boring. I hear a taut but timid reading. Some exhilaration, very little emotion, it's rather constipated.

The Fifth for me, though I find it hard to say why (apart from the fact that it was the first Tchaikovsky symphony I heard as a boy). It might be something to do with the fact that the second movement is so strong, and that I relish the relative poise, clear-headed thinking and classical balance of the first movement; like much of the music in the later symphonies it is obviously rooted in ballet and perhaps uncomfortably so, but it wears this more lightly than its fellows....I find it hard to put into words, as you can see. However, I'm sure the Sixth is a finer piece, and my own personal definition of 'great melody' always goes straight to the main subject of the slow movement of the Fourth - a tune so strong it needs no rhythmic differentiation to sear itself on the mind.

I also say the Fifth; I think it has the best elements of Pyotr (deep emotion, beautiful melodies with excellent shades of feeling) that is mature and concise.  His earlier works all hit or miss the mark for me, generally, but the Fifth has never failed to satisfy.  Perhaps the Sixth is his most moving and intense work (for all the reasons involved), but I say Tchaikovsky reached a balanced perfection with the Fifth.

I just have a beef to pick with Dave Hurwitz... why does he hate the Pletnev versions of the Tchaikovsky symphonies?   I have several versions including those, Svetlanov, Markevitch,, etc   they are just as good imho.

Wow, nearly 17 years. Must be a close to a record of some sort.

Yeah, but that lukeottevanger guy (answer #45) really knew what he was on about. I'd vote 5 too, for exactly the same reasons.

I like the Fifth. When Brezhnev was buried, there was a live broadcast on TV, and the Andante cantabile was repeated endlessly. It was lovely.

As far as interpretations go, for me it's Mravinsky. The earlier mono recordings on DG is better than the next ones in stereo. Mravinsky almost managed to avoid the sugary platitudes and cartoonish tragicism that so often characterize other interpretations.

The 6th avoids the failures of the per aspera ad astra attempts in 4 and 5. Its "fault" is to be even more theatralic and melodramatic than the preceeding but it's a brilliant alternative solution, I think.
As a teenager the 5th was my favorite (o.k. I knew only 2,5,6 for several years). It's a good piece and has more formal/musical closure in a sense.
But its finale makes no sense poetically. We have been haunted by the fate motive of the introduction and now this is first transformed into a hymn in the major mode without any clear development how this triumph was achieved. And worse, after this intro we get a rather wild finale, mostly in the minor again that makes even less sense in the overall "narrative."

Quote from: AnotherSpin on April 21, 2024, 11:11:23 PMAs far as interpretations go, for me it's Mravinsky. The earlier mono recordings on DG is better than the next ones in stereo. Mravinsky almost managed to avoid the sugary platitudes and cartoonish tragicism that so often characterize other interpretations.

Interesting! I did find the stereo remake kind of dissapointing...

A bit simplified, I think it's not that hard to avoid "sugariness" if one plays everything very fast and it's in dry mono sound... ;) This holds, AFAIR not only for Mravinsky (I only kept the stereo because of the better sound) but also for the early (ca. 1950-53) Fricsay/DG 4-6 or for Toscanini (IIRC 6th only) and even Markevitch and Szell (despite in better but still rather dry early stereo).

Why would someone want to take out the sentimentality and the melodrama from Tchaikovsky? Then all his charm and appeal would vanish and we'd be left with a desiccated pseudo-Tchaikovsky. If they want coldness and dispassion, there's plenty of music to choose from, there's absolutely no need to turn Tchaikovsky into Stravinsky. ;D

Quote from: Florestan on April 22, 2024, 02:07:34 AMWhy would someone want to take out the sentimentality and the melodrama from Tchaikovsky? Then all his charm and appeal would vanish and we'd be left with a desiccated pseudo-Tchaikovsky. If they want coldness and dispassion, there's plenty of music to choose from, there's absolutely no need to turn Tchaikovsky into Stravinsky. ;D

The label pseudo-Tchaikovsky hardly fits Mravinsky. I find his performances (also applied to Shostakovich) to be benchmark Soviet performances. I do not agree that they are insensitive. Yes, no saccharine. But - chill, gloom, steel. Almost completely hopeless despair. The mono versions of the sixth and especially the fifth are exactly that. Perfect fit for mid-century USSR interpretation. His stereo versions are softer, more suitable for western ears.

Perhaps my purely subjective perception of Mravinsky's recordings is dictated by blood memory. My father lived in post-war Leningrad and barely survived pneumonia. He was forbidden to stay there and was ordered to go south.

Quote from: AnotherSpin on April 22, 2024, 03:37:54 AMThe label pseudo-Tchaikovsky hardly fits Mravinsky. I find his performances (also applied to Shostakovich) to be benchmark Soviet performances. I do not agree that they are insensitive. Yes, no saccharine. But - chill, gloom, steel. Almost completely hopeless despair. The mono versions of the sixth and especially the fifth are exactly that. Perfect fit for mid-century USSR interpretation. His stereo versions are softer, more suitable for western ears.

Perhaps my purely subjective perception of Mravinsky's recordings is dictated by blood memory. My father lived in post-war Leningrad and barely survived pneumonia. He was forbidden to stay there and was ordered to go south.

Oh, I wasn't talking about conductors, but about people who complain about Tchaikovsky being schmaltzy and melodramatic.  ;)

Quote from: Florestan on April 22, 2024, 04:25:15 AMOh, I wasn't talking about conductors, but about people who complain about Tchaikovsky being schmaltzy and melodramatic.  ;)

He is schmaltzy and melodramatic in most of the performances :o And Mravinsky's performances demonstrate more than convincingly that this is not at all necessary. And not only Mravinsky, many old recordings are not like this. Recordings of the Piano Concerto with Horowitz/Toscanini, for example.

Quote from: Luke on April 21, 2024, 10:24:57 PMYeah, but that lukeottevanger guy (answer #45) really knew what he was on about. I'd vote 5 too, for exactly the same reasons.

Not sure I voted, but yes, the e minor!

Looks like I was being a smart ass back in 2007.  My favorite back then was the 4th.  My favorite now is the 6th.  I like all of them but listen to 4-6 and Manfred more than 1-3.

My order is 5-1-6-4-2-3.

Quote from: DavidW on April 22, 2024, 08:50:33 AMLooks like I was being a smart ass back in 2007.  My favorite back then was the 4th.  My favorite now is the 6th.  I like all of them but listen to 4-6 and Manfred more than 1-3.

Manfred is magnificent!

Quote from: Florestan on April 22, 2024, 09:08:41 AMMy order is 5-1-6-4-2-3.

Ah yes rankings!  My personal preference is 6 > 4 > 5 > Manfred > 3 > 1 > 2.

Hmmmmmmm.

4-5-6-1-2-Manfred-3?

But the drop-off is near the end. It's really only 3 that I don't understand/enjoy and only Manfred that I have to listen to sparingly because of its excesses.

Quote from: 71 dB on May 26, 2007, 02:22:28 PMI haven't explored Tchaikovsky's symphonies.

Update nearly 17 years later: Still haven't explored Tchaikovsky's symphonies.   ???

Quote from: 71 dB on April 22, 2024, 10:28:20 AMUpdate nearly 17 years later: Still haven't explored Tchaikovsky's symphonies.  ???

It's time, isn't it?

Don't hurry the man Karl!  >:(   :P

Actually 17 years ago would've been when I first heard the Tchaikovsky symphonies.

Quote from: Karl Henning on April 22, 2024, 11:26:00 AMIt's time, isn't it?

The thought of which performance to check out...  ???

Quote from: 71 dB on April 22, 2024, 01:45:44 PMThe thought of which performance to check out...  ???

There are many good performances.

Quote from: 71 dB on April 22, 2024, 01:45:44 PMThe thought of which performance to check out...  ???

The absolute best:
(https://i.discogs.com/ER6fNBkH1ZTkTgrAvvP0Tg0BK2dSiib52pLK8CvqWNM/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:521/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTUzMDI3/Mi0xNjE2OTkzNjky/LTQ5MDkuanBlZw.jpeg)

For modern sound:
(https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music113/v4/a4/b8/89/a4b88953-d62c-da2f-f55e-0e50f008b96e/5060498631037.png/1200x1200bf-60.jpg)

Wholeheartedly second the Jurowski recommendation (and he's great in the early symphonies) but I would also put Markevitch up there on the Mount Rushmore of Tchaikovsky symphony interpreters!

Quote from: DavidW on April 22, 2024, 02:57:12 PMThe absolute best:
(https://i.discogs.com/ER6fNBkH1ZTkTgrAvvP0Tg0BK2dSiib52pLK8CvqWNM/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:521/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTUzMDI3/Mi0xNjE2OTkzNjky/LTQ5MDkuanBlZw.jpeg)

Maybe, but I wouldn't recommend it as the first, let alone the only, choice to people with no special interest in Tchaikovsky, a category to which Poju obviously belongs. Besides, it's incomplete, and Winter Dreams and Manfred are unmissable. IMO Poju's best option is this:

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81aBS5gRRHL._SL1200_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71bRazDDR+L._SL1050_.jpg)

Complete symphonies including Manfred, all the important overtures, two ballet suites, the charming string serenade and PC1 with Andrei Gavrilov. Solid, no-nonsense performances in excellent sound. One could really not wish more, who is not particularly a fan of Tchaikovsky.

I see that I'd voted for Symphony No.1 in the poll. It is still the Tchaikovsky symphony I cherish the most - his most balletic, and without the soul-crushing dourness of later works.
Of the last three symphonies, I used to like the 4th the best, but it's the Currentzis 6 I return to the most nowadays; he manages to convey the hurricane of a tormented, desperate soul (which I assume is what Tchaikovsky would've wanted) and not make it sound like a histrionic tantrum, which is what usually turns out in modern performances.

Quote from: Florestan on April 22, 2024, 04:25:15 AMOh, I wasn't talking about conductors, but about people who complain about Tchaikovsky being schmaltzy and melodramatic.  ;)

Re-listened to the 4th yesterday, in parts, couldn't do it completely. Particularly repulsive are all these "folk" songs and motifs, as Во поле березка стояла. Mother Russia, the stench of gutalin and manure, ruddy, pimply, sweaty девки, short and crooked drunken мужики with sparse beards, vodka flowing straight from the samovar.

Quote from: AnotherSpin on April 22, 2024, 10:11:37 PMRe-listened to the 4th yesterday, in parts, couldn't do it completely. Particularly repulsive are all these "folk" songs and motifs, as Во поле березка стояла. Mother Russia, the stench of gutalin and manure, ruddy, pimply, sweaty девки, short and crooked drunken мужики with sparse beards, vodka flowing straight from the samovar.

I am reminded of Eduard Hanslick's criticism of Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto:

    "The Russian composer Tchaikovsky is an inflated [talent], without discrimination or taste. Such is also his long and pretentious Violin Concerto. For a while it moves musically, and not without spirit. But soon vulgarity gains the upper hand. The violin is no longer played; it is pulled, torn, shredded. The [second movement] Adagio is on its best behavior. But it breaks off to make way for a finale that transfers us to the brutal and wretched jollity of a Russian holiday. We see plainly the savage, vulgar faces; we hear curses, we smell vodka. Friedrich Vischer once observed, speaking of obscene pictures, that they stink to the eye. Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto gives us for the first time the hideous notion that there can be music that stinks to the ear."

(emphasis mine)

FWIW, this VC is one of my Top 5 favorites. As for Hanslick's own music, as we Romanians say, not even the devil has heard (of) it.  ;D

Quote from: Florestan on April 22, 2024, 11:56:47 PMI am reminded of Eduard Hanslick's criticism of Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto:

    "The Russian composer Tchaikovsky is an inflated [talent], without discrimination or taste. Such is also his long and pretentious Violin Concerto. For a while it moves musically, and not without spirit. But soon vulgarity gains the upper hand. The violin is no longer played; it is pulled, torn, shredded. The [second movement] Adagio is on its best behavior. But it breaks off to make way for a finale that transfers us to the brutal and wretched jollity of a Russian holiday. We see plainly the savage, vulgar faces; we hear curses, we smell vodka. Friedrich Vischer once observed, speaking of obscene pictures, that they stink to the eye. Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto gives us for the first time the hideous notion that there can be music that stinks to the ear."

(emphasis mine)

FWIW, this VC is one of my Top 5 favorites. As for Hanslick's own music, as we Romanians say, not even the devil has heard of it.  ;D

I'm familiar with this Hanslick comment, with which I agree. By the way, I have long loved the Violin Concerto, especially the middle movement. I don't listen to it anymore.

Quote from: AnotherSpin on April 23, 2024, 12:03:11 AMI'm familiar with this Hanslick comment, with which I agree.

Well, I find Hanslick's comment particularly inept in view of the fact that the main theme of the finale has more than a vague resemblance to that of Mendelssohn's VC, and Felix certainly was not a vodka-drinking, unkempt, cursing muzhik.. I wonder what Hanslick may have said about Mussorgsky, who in his late years probably literally smelled like vodka.  ;D

Quote from: Florestan on April 23, 2024, 12:17:57 AMWell, I find Hanslick's comment particularly inept in view of the fact that the main theme of the finale has more than a vague resemblance to that of Mendelssohn's VC, and Felix certainly was not a vodka-drinking, unkempt, cursing muzhik.. I wonder what Hanslick may have said about Mussorgsky, who in his late years probably literally smelled like vodka.  ;D

There are known examples of alcoholism among composers of other cultures. But in Russia, more than anywhere else, heavy drinking is literally elevated to the rank of valor and national pride. Have you seen the movie Brother 2? The protagonist, a simple and kind Russian man Danila comes to America to the devil of hell, an American capitalist who embezzled other people's money. And before the showdown begins, he forces him at gunpoint to drink vodka in glasses. By the way, this is a very curious movie for understanding the modern Russian ideology (namely, the fierce hatred of all non-Russians, especially Anglo-Saxons), much more to the point than any of Dostoevsky's books.

Quote from: DavidW on April 22, 2024, 02:57:12 PMThe absolute best:

Quote from: Karl Henning on April 22, 2024, 02:29:08 PMThere are many good performances.

Thanks for these! Since I am to explore all the symphonies, the Jurowski looks good and "modern sound" is a plus (modern sound can be bad if the sound engineers did lousy job).

Quote from: Florestan on April 22, 2024, 11:56:47 PMI am reminded of Eduard Hanslick's criticism of Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto:

    "The Russian composer Tchaikovsky is an inflated [talent], without discrimination or taste. Such is also his long and pretentious Violin Concerto. For a while it moves musically, and not without spirit. But soon vulgarity gains the upper hand. The violin is no longer played; it is pulled, torn, shredded. The [second movement] Adagio is on its best behavior. But it breaks off to make way for a finale that transfers us to the brutal and wretched jollity of a Russian holiday. We see plainly the savage, vulgar faces; we hear curses, we smell vodka. Friedrich Vischer once observed, speaking of obscene pictures, that they stink to the eye. Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto gives us for the first time the hideous notion that there can be music that stinks to the ear."

I had encountered that criticism long ago in truncated form, so for years I assumed that the "stink" was because of overly sweet perfume (in the first 2 movements), not vodka, sweat and garlic!
Tbh I found this far more plausible and I never liked the work very much but I recognize its achievement and the last movemmnt is probably my favorite!

The true core of such criticism is, I think, that it points to the extreme contrasts within the composer. There is the elegant "French Ballet" side and the bipolar Russian side between exultation and suicidal depression. In the case of the violin concerto it's rather unfair because I think he managed the fusion very well here.
But I think he needs both sides. He managed a few good works mostly without the "dark" or "elemental" side, such as the String serenade (or maybe even most of Nutcracker) but I find that other pieces without the energy and depth of that other side become competent and boring (IMO 3rd symphony, 2nd piano concerto  they are neglected, but it's understandable).

Quote from: Jo498 on April 23, 2024, 05:35:31 AMThe true core of such criticism is, I think, that it points to the extreme contrasts within the composer. There is the elegant "French Ballet" side and the bipolar Russian side between exultation and suicidal depression.

Except for the last movement of the Pathetique, I can't find any instance of suicidal depression in Tchaikovsky's music. Emotional turbulence aplenty, melancholy (mostly of the dark type) in spades --- but suicidal depression is an exaggeration. Did you ever feel like killing yourself after listening to Tchaikovsky?  :D   

Quote from: Florestan on April 23, 2024, 05:50:38 AMDid you ever feel like killing yourself after listening to Tchaikovsky?  :D   

I usually reserve Pettersson for that!

Quote from: DavidW on April 23, 2024, 07:08:35 AMI usually reserve Pettersson for that!

 ;D

Personally, I've always liked the Vn Cto.

Quote from: Florestan on April 23, 2024, 05:50:38 AMExcept for the last movement of the Pathetique, I can't find any instance of suicidal depression in Tchaikovsky's music. Emotional turbulence aplenty, melancholy (mostly of the dark type) in spades --- but suicidal depression is an exaggeration. Did you ever feel like killing yourself after listening to Tchaikovsky?  :D   

No, of course it is a bit of an exaggeration although I think there are very dark melancholic passage also in the 5th symphony, the 4th has that bipolar contrasts (a bipolar person does not have to be suicidal but oscillates between hyperactivity and depressive brooding), the 3rd quartet and the trio, which were also tributes to deceased friends.

I listened to the first symphony on Spotify (Jurowski). This is not a particularly mind-blowing symphony, but Tchaikovski knew how to compose Adagio cantabiles.

I received several pop CDs today, so Tchaikovski has to wait, but work in progress...  :D

4-6-5-3-1-2

I would have to think hard about where to place Manfred. This is one rare instance where a specific performance completely changed my mind on it.

Even the symphonies I didn't typically listen to these days until discovering Eschenbach, Gatti for the last three, and Pletnev in the first three. Which had caused me to go back to all the old performances I knew I liked and made me realize I was wrong to neglect these works for 10+ years.

I rarely listen to the symphonies nowadays and I don't know Manfred well enough (although I have 3 of the most highly regarded recordings, Svetlanov, Silvestri, Markevitch), so its getting fuzzy in the lower half

6-5-4-1-2-3

I probably rated 1 in second place years ago when I was rather sick of 4 and 5. However, 5 was my "first love" and I think the middle movements of 4 are among the best. The first movement is good although a bit long (and I dislike the fatum fanfare) and while I tire quickly of the finale its infectious energy is undeniable. Whereas the wonderful atmosphere of the 1st's 1st movement cannot carry the whole piece and the finale is boring. #2 is more like suite with the finale presenting instrumentational changes as variation and while I want to like the 3rd, it just remains mostly boring (like the 2nd & 3rd piano concertos or most of the orchestral suites).

Quote from: Atriod on April 25, 2024, 05:11:14 AM4-6-5-3-1-2

I would have to think hard about where to place Manfred. This is one rare instance where a specific performance completely changed my mind on it.

Even the symphonies I didn't typically listen to these days until discovering Eschenbach, Gatti for the last three, and Pletnev in the first three. Which had caused me to go back to all the old performances I knew I liked and made me realize I was wrong to neglect these works for 10+ years.

I also like Pletnev in the Manfred.  Those are some seriously good recordings you're mentioning!

Quote from: DavidW on April 25, 2024, 08:34:34 AMI also like Pletnev in the Manfred.  Those are some seriously good recordings you're mentioning!

Janowski's Manfred is excellent, as is all his work. My favorites among the symphonies are 6 and 5 tied, then the others more or less tied. Don't like the finale of 4. I do not like Bernstein's DG Pathetique. Hurwitz argues that Lenny stretches out the last movement to balance in length the first. But if Tchaikovsky had wanted an 18-minute finale, he would have written 18 minutes of music, not a 10-minute movement that one conductor bloats to the point of absurdity.

I do love the Violin Concerto, the first Piano, and the Nutcracker. For my liking, there is no better way to experience the Nutcracker than in George Balanchine's choreography, which is fortunately on DVD if you can't get to one of the c. 400 Xmas-season performances at the NYC Ballet.

The Gramophone reviewer singled out the young Swedish violinist Daniel Lozakovich as his favorite for the concerto. High praise for someone 23 years old when every violinist in history has recorded it, but I like this artist too, a violinistic counterpart to pianoworld's Yunchan Lim. I heard DL live in NYC just recently with pianist Behzod Abduraimov, in a program that included an OK Kreutzer, but also the best Franck sonata I've ever heard.

It's probably not the fashionable answer but nothing has come even remotely close to topping Litton/Bournemouth in the Tchaikovsky symphonies for me. Especially Manfred. It has a punch to it that completely blew me away when I first heard the symphony in 2007. No other recordings have hit the spot the way that one does.

Quote from: 71 dB on April 25, 2024, 02:44:57 AMI listened to the first symphony on Spotify (Jurowski).

That's not a particularly good rendition. Listen to Karajan.

Quote from: Florestan on April 23, 2024, 05:50:38 AMExcept for the last movement of the Pathetique, I can't find any instance of suicidal depression in Tchaikovsky's music. Emotional turbulence aplenty, melancholy (mostly of the dark type) in spades --- but suicidal depression is an exaggeration. Did you ever feel like killing yourself after listening to Tchaikovsky?  :D 

The Piano Trio in A Minor, Op. 50, ends  with very much the same sense of defeat as does Pathetique. Tchaikovsky evokes Chopin's " Funeral March " in the piano's rhythm, and it's easy to interpret the alternating A and E in the left hand as the final steps to an open grave, or perhaps the gallows...

Quote from: Wanderer on April 25, 2024, 11:49:08 AMThat's not a particularly good rendition. Listen to Karajan.

Oh, okay. I'll check out Karajan someday (maybe?)

I am listening to form an opinion for this thread. I'm listening to Jurowski doing them all. It is fair.

Quote from: 71 dB on April 25, 2024, 02:44:57 AMI listened to the first symphony on Spotify (Jurowski). This is not a particularly mind-blowing symphony, but Tchaikovski knew how to compose Adagio cantabiles.

I received several pop CDs today, so Tchaikovski has to wait, but work in progress...  :D

Even if you end up writing off Tchaikovsky, you can say that you finally gave a listen!

Difficult as always, but let me try...

Manfred -6-5-1-3-4-2

Also, possible:  Manfred -6-5-1-Three-Way Tie 3/4/2    :laugh:

Quote from: LKB on April 25, 2024, 12:06:56 PMThe Piano Trio in A Minor, Op. 50, ends  with very much the same sense of defeat as does Pathetique. Tchaikovsky evokes Chopin's " Funeral March " in the piano's rhythm, and it's easy to interpret the alternating A and E in the left hand as the final steps to an open grave, or perhaps the gallows...

The question is, whose grave? Tchaikovsky's own, or Nikolai Rubinstein's, in whose memory the trio was written (it is even subtitled A la memoire d'un grand artiste)? I think the answer is obvious.

Quote from: 71 dB on April 25, 2024, 01:09:21 PMI am listening to form an opinion for this thread. I'm listening to Jurowski doing them all. It is fair.

Jurowski's cycle of 1-6 are a bit more classical in style and at times it almost sounds like the LPO are a chamber orchestra. I'm not saying any of this is a bad thing. It's just not red blooded as Hurwitz would say "panting and heaving" Tchaikovsky ala Eschenbach, Kobayashi, etc.

Quote from: DavidW on April 25, 2024, 08:34:34 AMI also like Pletnev in the Manfred.  Those are some seriously good recordings you're mentioning!

I haven't got to Pletnev yet in Manfred though it is in the Tchaikovsky box I have.

This is the only performance I like to date:

(https://i.imgur.com/p3xV4SZ.jpeg)

Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on April 25, 2024, 10:11:26 AMHurwitz argues that Lenny stretches out the last movement to balance in length the first. But if Tchaikovsky had wanted an 18-minute finale, he would have written 18 minutes of music, not a 10-minute movement that one conductor bloats to the point of absurdity.

Yours is a good point. I need to revisit that recording. I heard it long enough ago, I have no memory of it.

Quote from: Karl Henning on April 23, 2024, 07:20:39 AMPersonally, I've always liked the Vn Cto.

Amen!  😇 

Quote from: Maestro267 on April 25, 2024, 10:20:57 AMIt's probably not the fashionable answer but nothing has come even remotely close to topping Litton/Bournemouth in the Tchaikovsky symphonies for me. Especially Manfred. It has a punch to it that completely blew me away when I first heard the symphony in 2007. No other recordings have hit the spot the way that one does.

Quote from: Cato on April 25, 2024, 08:34:29 PMDifficult as always, but let me try...

Manfred -6-5-1-3-4-2

Also, possible:  Manfred -6-5-1-Three-Way Tie 3/4/2    :laugh:

Quote from: DavidW on April 25, 2024, 08:34:34 AM
I also like Pletnev in the Manfred. 

I first heard Manfred in a truncated mono recording by Toscanini and the NBC Symphony: it will knock your socks and shoes off, and maybe even curl your toenails!  :o

Quote from: DavidW on April 25, 2024, 05:13:04 PMEven if you end up writing off Tchaikovsky, you can say that you finally gave a listen!

Well, I don't think I'll be writing Tchaikovsky off. I listen to some of his music (Rococo Variations, Serenade for Strings and Swan Lake to mention some works I enjoy),

Quote from: Atriod on April 26, 2024, 04:46:24 AMJurowski's cycle of 1-6 are a bit more classical in style and at times it almost sounds like the LPO are a chamber orchestra. I'm not saying any of this is a bad thing. It's just not red blooded as Hurwitz would say "panting and heaving" Tchaikovsky ala Eschenbach, Kobayashi, etc.

ok. yes, the first two symphonies sound "classical" in Jurowski's hand.

Just finished the 2nd Symphony. I liked the first one a bit better.

Quote from: Karl Henning on April 26, 2024, 02:55:53 PMYours is a good point. I need to revisit that recording. I heard it long enough ago, I have no memory of it.

I envy you.

Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on April 27, 2024, 05:24:34 AMI envy you.

(* chortle *)

Quote from: 71 dB on April 27, 2024, 02:23:55 AMThere is just so much music in the World. I am exploring new music all the time. A lot of it just isn't classical music. I have been struggling with classical music for years. I am so tired of the question of "the best performance." I was told here I should have listened to Karajan instead of Jurowski. Come on! Jurowski can't be that bad and it has good sonics. If I become a Tchaikovsky nut(cracker) then I can explore Karajan and what not...

Yes streaming allowed me to grow beyond that silly, childish "best of" mentality.  Now I just enjoy what I listen to, and I've stopped asking what is "the best." 

QuotePopular music is so much simpler.  ::)

Except when buying cds apparently! :laugh:

Quote from: 71 dB on April 27, 2024, 02:27:36 AMI'm sure it is enough to tell me if Tchaikovsky's symphonies are my cup of tea or not. I am aware of the fact I am not listening to the absolute best performances ever.

I don't listen to music for other people. I listen to it for myself. This is my journey with my mistakes. I have done millions of mistakes and still the journey of exploring music has been great. I am a human being, not a robot executing "perfect exploration into classical music." More of this "you are listening to the wrong performances" and I will drop this and not listen to the rest. I have so much other stuff to listen to.

Atriod was just trying to share with you what clicked with him, trust me he was not trying to lecture you on how to listen to music.  He just wanted you to start with the presentation that made him click with Tchaikovsky.  I think he might be in the camp where is a bit ambivalent to Tchaikovsky unless the performance REALLY WORKS. 

I will be honest, I'm not in that camp.  I love everything Tchaikovsky wrote, in pretty much any performance.  If you find yourself standing firmly in Atriod's mindset... that is why he is trying to help.

Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on April 27, 2024, 05:24:34 AMI envy you.

Ha!  Well I have Karl beat... I never heard it!  I've heard Bernstein in symphonies 3-6 and that is it.  I do love his third.

Quote from: 71 dB on April 25, 2024, 01:09:21 PMI am listening to form an opinion for this thread. I'm listening to Jurowski doing them all. It is fair.

Kudos if you enjoy what you hear. However, first you post this, asking for recommendations...

Quote from: 71 dB on April 22, 2024, 01:45:44 PMThe thought of which performance to check out...  ???

...and then you're being rudely dismissive, in multiple posts, when people are trying to help you and recommendations are given to you.

(How does the adage go? No good deed goes unpunished.)  ;D

Quote from: DavidW on April 27, 2024, 07:26:41 AMAtriod was just trying to share with you what clicked with him, trust me he was not trying to lecture you on how to listen to music.  He just wanted you to start with the presentation that made him click with Tchaikovsky.

So did I - and I believe everyone else that offered recommendations.

No recent mention of my favorite cycle here, so I'll plug them by simply remarking that one can do much, much worse than Haitink with the RCO.

Quote from: DavidW on April 27, 2024, 07:26:41 AMI love everything Tchaikovsky wrote, in pretty much any performance.

A-M-E-N-!!!

Actually, this is valid for all my favorite composers --- my favorite performance of any of their works is the one I'm currently listening to.

It'll be a cold day in hell long before I do any A/B/C comparison.

Quote from: Wanderer on April 27, 2024, 09:25:28 AMKudos if you enjoy what you hear. However, first you post this, asking for recommendations...

...and then you're being rudely dismissive, in multiple posts, when people are trying to help you and recommendations are given to you.

(How does the adage go? No good deed goes unpunished.)  ;D

Jurowski is not my own idea. It was recommended to me. I can also check other performances (of the best symphonies)

Quote from: Florestan on April 27, 2024, 11:35:42 AMIt'll be a cold day in hell long before I do any A/B/C comparison.

We can leave that to Todd! :laugh:

Quote from: DavidW on April 27, 2024, 01:07:37 PMWe can leave that to Todd! :laugh:

(* chortle *)

Quote from: LKB on April 27, 2024, 10:43:49 AMNo recent mention of my favorite cycle here, so I'll plug them by simply remarking that one can do much, much worse than Haitink with the RCO.

Agreed. I particularly liked Haitink in the earlier symphonies.

Quote from: LKB on April 27, 2024, 10:43:49 AMNo recent mention of my favorite cycle here, so I'll plug them by simply remarking that one can do much, much worse than Haitink with the RCO.

I would suggest that Haitink and the RCO are consistently excellent in just about anything, but maybe that is because I enjoy his conducting in general.

Anyway... I know it's not Tchaikovsky's best, but my favorite has always been No. 2. I first heard the 2nd movement, "andantino marziale" by itself on a compilation CD of marches. One day, as I was doing some homework, this symphony played on the radio. I started listening intently when the march began, and it was quite a thrill to finally hear the entire piece.

To this day, Tchaikovsky's 2nd reminds me of childhood, but it also stands out for its freshness, especially compared to Nos. 4-6. Greater works, and yet there is something missing. I suppose that is how life goes.

Quote from: Baxcalibur on May 09, 2024, 07:49:36 PMI would suggest that Haitink and the RCO are consistently excellent in just about anything, but maybe that is because I enjoy his conducting in general.

Anyway... I know it's not Tchaikovsky's best, but my favorite has always been No. 2. I first heard the 2nd movement, "andantino marziale" by itself on a compilation CD of marches. One day, as I was doing some homework, this symphony played on the radio. I started listening intently when the march began, and it was quite a thrill to finally hear the entire piece.

To this day, Tchaikovsky's 2nd reminds me of childhood, but it also stands out for its freshness, especially compared to Nos. 4-6. Greater works, and yet there is something missing. I suppose that is how life goes.

I haven't listened to it in ages, but now have it on YT.  Personally, I have a soft spot for his first one (perhaps due in part to its name..."Winter Daydreams").  Do you, by the way, happen to know how it came up with the name "Ukrainian"?

As an aside, your user name made me crack up!  Very clever!  :)

PD

p.s.  If I didn't say it earlier, welcome to the forum!

I'm going to dip my toes into the Muti set... I might have heard it before, I don't recall.  But if I don't even remember then it might as well be a first listen!

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on May 10, 2024, 10:24:18 AMI haven't listened to it in ages, but now have it on YT.  Personally, I have a soft spot for his first one (perhaps due in part to its name..."Winter Daydreams").  Do you, by the way, happen to know how it came up with the name "Ukrainian"?

As an aside, your user name made me crack up!  Very clever!  :)

PD

p.s.  If I didn't say it earlier, welcome to the forum!

Tchaikovsky used melodies of Ukrainian folk songs in this symphony. Most of the symphony was written when the composer was visiting relatives in the Ukrainian town of Kamianka. By the way, Tchaikovsky had Ukrainian roots on his father's side.

Quote from: DavidW on May 10, 2024, 11:39:47 AMI'm going to dip my toes into the Muti set... I might have heard it before, I don't recall.  But if I don't even remember then it might as well be a first listen!

You absolutely can't go wrong with it. It's my firm recommendation for anyone needing only one such set. (Which is the case of neither you nor me).

Quote from: AnotherSpin on May 10, 2024, 11:59:00 AMTchaikovsky used melodies of Ukrainian folk songs in this symphony. Most of the symphony was written when the composer was visiting relatives in the Ukrainian town of Kamianka. By the way, Tchaikovsky had Ukrainian roots on his father's side.

Thanks!

PD

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on May 10, 2024, 10:24:18 AMI haven't listened to it in ages, but now have it on YT.  Personally, I have a soft spot for his first one (perhaps due in part to its name..."Winter Daydreams").  Do you, by the way, happen to know how it came up with the name "Ukrainian"?

As an aside, your user name made me crack up!  Very clever!  :)

PD

p.s.  If I didn't say it earlier, welcome to the forum!

AnotherSpin beat me to it, but yes, I knew.

Baxcalibur is the creature in my avatar, from the Pokemon series. I chose it because of a certain composer, as you might've guessed.

Thanks for the welcome! It's been too long since I've posted here.

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on May 10, 2024, 04:36:02 PMThanks!

PD

I know only a few well-known bits about Tchaikovsky, in particular the fact that his great-grandfather was a Ukrainian cossack Fyodor Chaika (чайка=seagull) Perhaps, he resembled one of the characters in the famous painting by artist Ilya Repin.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Ilja_Jefimowitsch_Repin_-_Reply_of_the_Zaporozhian_Cossacks_-_Yorck.jpg/2560px-Ilja_Jefimowitsch_Repin_-_Reply_of_the_Zaporozhian_Cossacks_-_Yorck.jpg)

Quote from: AnotherSpin on May 10, 2024, 08:42:49 PMI know only a few well-known bits about Tchaikovsky, in particular the fact that his great-grandfather was a Ukrainian cossack Fyodor Chaika (чайка=seagull) Perhaps, he resembled one of the characters in the famous painting by artist Ilya Repin.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Ilja_Jefimowitsch_Repin_-_Reply_of_the_Zaporozhian_Cossacks_-_Yorck.jpg/2560px-Ilja_Jefimowitsch_Repin_-_Reply_of_the_Zaporozhian_Cossacks_-_Yorck.jpg)

What an excellent painting that is.

Quote from: Iota on May 11, 2024, 06:18:02 AMWhat an excellent painting that is.

Ilya Repin was one of the most interesting artists in the former Russian Empire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Repin

Quote from: DavidW on May 10, 2024, 11:39:47 AMI'm going to dip my toes into the Muti set... I might have heard it before, I don't recall.  But if I don't even remember then it might as well be a first listen!

I spent hours listening to music last night and one thing really stood out!  Muti in the Manfred.  Knock your socks off great.  More passion than I have ever heard in this symphony... it is so, so good!

(https://www.casals-classical.com/cdn/shop/products/mutimanfredemicd_1662799c-1b8f-4002-9e53-ea734455addd.jpg?v=1569040967)

Quote from: AnotherSpin on May 11, 2024, 06:41:07 AMIlya Repin was one of the most interesting artists in the former Russian Empire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Repin

Thanks. The only ones I know are (rather predictably) the portraits of Mussorgsky and Glinka, but will be taking a much closer look at Repin now. 

Quote from: DavidW on May 11, 2024, 07:45:28 AMI spent hours listening to music last night and one thing really stood out!  Muti in the Manfred.  Knock your socks off great.  More passion than I have ever heard in this symphony... it is so, so good!

(https://www.casals-classical.com/cdn/shop/products/mutimanfredemicd_1662799c-1b8f-4002-9e53-ea734455addd.jpg?v=1569040967)

Love it!
VS

Quote from: Iota on May 11, 2024, 06:18:02 AMWhat an excellent painting that is.

You may find it interesting: the prototypes of some of the Cossacks in Repin's painting were real people. For example, one of them is Fyodor Stravinsky, the composer's father (look for yellow hat).

Quote from: AnotherSpin on May 10, 2024, 08:42:49 PMI know only a few well-known bits about Tchaikovsky, in particular the fact that his great-grandfather was a Ukrainian cossack Fyodor Chaika (чайка=seagull) Perhaps, he resembled one of the characters in the famous painting by artist Ilya Repin.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Ilja_Jefimowitsch_Repin_-_Reply_of_the_Zaporozhian_Cossacks_-_Yorck.jpg/2560px-Ilja_Jefimowitsch_Repin_-_Reply_of_the_Zaporozhian_Cossacks_-_Yorck.jpg)

I recognize that image from Neeme Jarvi's older Rimsky-Korsakov recording. However, in revisiting, I see it has been mirrored and exists in a sorry state of definition. Neat to see the original.
VS

(https://a5.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/0/Music126/v4/11/6f/5e/116f5ed8-3a25-895c-9a9a-4293020ee1de/5059864832734_cover.jpg)

Quote from: AnotherSpin on May 11, 2024, 10:02:26 AMYou may find it interesting: the prototypes of some of the Cossacks in Repin's painting were real people. For example, one of them is Fyodor Stravinsky, the composer's father (look for yellow hat).

Haha, thanks, that perks up my appreciation even further.

Tchaik. Symphony #6.  Berliner Philharmoniker/Petrenko.  Blows every other one right off the page.

Quote from: Conrad Veidt fan on May 12, 2024, 05:13:53 AMTchaik. Symphony #6.  Berliner Philharmoniker/Petrenko.  Blows every other one right off the page.

Welcome!  I recently listened to Petrenko in that symphony but it was Royal Liverpool (and I love it!).  I'll have to check out the Berlin.  I already listened to the sixth through Muti this weekend so it will be awhile.

Quote from: DavidW on May 12, 2024, 08:52:19 AMWelcome!  I recently listened to Petrenko in that symphony but it was Royal Liverpool (and I love it!).  I'll have to check out the Berlin.  I already listened to the sixth through Muti this weekend so it will be awhile.

Two different Petrenkos.

Quote from: AnotherSpin on May 12, 2024, 10:52:40 AMTwo different Petrenkos.

Oh thanks you're right!  Ha!

The 6th remains my favorite Tchaikovsky symphony. I truly feel his pain and suffering in this work. Of course, some would say I'm projecting and imbuing emotions into the symphony that aren't there...well, I don't believe it! The last movement is like a resignation of sorts and quite possibly a premonition the composer had of his demise, which would come not too long after his completion of it. The performance that really got to me was Vladimir Jurowski with the London Philharmonic (on this orchestra's own label). Also, Karajan's 70s recording on DG with the Berliners is another that has affected me.

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 25, 2024, 09:28:12 PMThe 6th remains my favorite Tchaikovsky symphony. I truly feel his pain and suffering in this work. Of course, some would say I'm projecting and imbuing emotions into the symphony that aren't there...well, I don't believe it! The last movement is like a resignation of sorts and quite possibly a premonition the composer had of his demise, which would come not too long after his completion of it. The performance that really got to me was Vladimir Jurowski with the London Philharmonic (on this orchestra's own label). Also, Karajan's 70s recording on DG with the Berliners is another that has affected me.

Pathetique was an early memorization for me, probably one of the first three symphonies along with Beethoven's Eroica and the Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique. The Decca recording of Ernest Ansermet with his Orchestre de la Suisse Romande was my imprint, for lack of anything better.

Over time l explored recordings by Bernstein and von Karajan before settling on Haitink's second effort with the RCO.

Quote from: Conrad Veidt fan on May 12, 2024, 05:13:53 AMTchaik. Symphony #6.  Berliner Philharmoniker/Petrenko.  Blows every other one right off the page.

Oh this is the post!  Yes, thank you for the recommendation... that recording is phenomenal.  And I've been making my way through other K. Petrenko recordings. 

Quote from: LKB on May 25, 2024, 10:39:52 PMOver time l explored recordings by Bernstein and von Karajan before settling on Haitink's second effort with the RCO.

My introduction to the symphony was Giulini, anybody heard it?

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/410Xkcvr+2L._UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg)

Quote from: DavidW on May 26, 2024, 06:55:32 AMMy introduction to the symphony was Giulini, anybody heard it?

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/410Xkcvr+2L._UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg)

I have not, but I'm a big fan of Giulini's conducting. I should check it out.

I hope it's better than the much later LA phil? recording with Giulini that sounds beautiful but completely lacks pathos.
Late(ish) Giulini since the 1980s could work well for some music (especially Bruckner, also Brahms despite glacial tempi) but I don't think it works for Tchaikovsky's 6th.

Quote from: Jo498 on May 26, 2024, 08:02:22 AMI hope it's better than the much later LA phil? recording with Giulini that sounds beautiful but completely lacks pathos.
Late(ish) Giulini since the 1980s could work well for some music (especially Bruckner, also Brahms despite glacial tempi) but I don't think it works for Tchaikovsky's 6th.

Yes my favorites of Tchaikovsky's symphonies are always swift.  You just can't dwell on pathos, his music is more subtle and colorful than that. 

Quote from: DavidW on May 26, 2024, 06:55:32 AMMy introduction to the symphony was Giulini, anybody heard it?

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/410Xkcvr+2L._UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg)

My "imprint" version of the 6th.  Still holds up extremely well.  It's also in the "Giulini: The London Years" box.

I don't know either Giulini - I must have a listen.  Recent acquisition were the last 3 symphonies in blazing performances by Daniele Gatti and the RPO from around 20 years ago.  Gatti's not a Rostropovich (who I love I have to say) - no weighty lingering but drammatic and purposeful and rather exciting.  Very well played by a galvanised RPO and good recording too.  Not exactly a famous group of recordings but certainly worthy of hearing.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61-NvE-7sXL._UF894,1000_QL80_.jpg)

I love Gatti's Tchaikovsky. 

Gatti and the RPO was also the only major orchestra I've ever heard live.  They came to Penn State when I was a grad student and performed Beethoven's 3rd and one of Brahms piano concertos.  It was amazing!