Or is there?
All other major composers have complete editions available...
Because there would be nothing complete or, worse, substantial about it.
Quote from: Sean on March 04, 2009, 12:42:25 AM
Or is there? All other major composers have complete editions available...
With the exceptions of the
Wesendonk Lieder and
Siegfried Idyll, his non-operatic music is just not that interesting (even for a Wagnerite like me). But if you really want to hear more, I suggest acquiring these CDs which will give you the symphonies, overtures (
Columbus,
Faust,
Die Feen and
Das Liebesverbot), marches and piano music:
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/maygmg/WagSin.jpg)
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/maygmg/WagnerSym.jpg)
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/decgmg/wagklav.jpg)
Menuhin and the ASMF recorded
Träume for Violin and OrchestraSarge
And there you are Sean! You can scratch another off your list.
Wagner and piano?! :o
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on March 04, 2009, 04:55:35 AM
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/maygmg/WagSin.jpg)
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/maygmg/WagnerSym.jpg)
Sarge
Sarge, I thought Wagner only wrote one Symphony, in C major, early in his career? Didn't know about the one in E. I like that pairing of the C major symphony and the Siegfried Idyll, I should put that on
my list. ;D
Quote from: opus67 on March 04, 2009, 05:52:37 AM
Wagner and piano?! :o
No. It's all a ruse. There is no such thing. Just move along and make believe it never happened.
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on March 04, 2009, 06:34:01 AM
No. It's all a ruse. There is no such thing. Just move along and make believe it never happened.
Much better.
I love this one
Interested in any thoughts on the two symphonies... are they any good?
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on March 04, 2009, 04:55:35 AM
With the exceptions of the Wesendonk Lieder and Siegfried Idyll, his non-operatic music is just not that interesting (even for a Wagnerite like me). But if you really want to hear more, I suggest acquiring these CDs which will give you the symphonies, overtures (Columbus, Faust, Die Feen and Das Liebesverbot), marches and piano music:
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/maygmg/WagnerSym.jpg)
Sarge
Wagner and Rogner. I'm there dude.
Quote from: opus67 on March 04, 2009, 05:52:37 AM
Wagner and piano?! :o
There's actually something very special about at least one Wagner piano piece: the
Albumblatt for Piano (Dedication). What's surprising perhaps is its economy. A mere snippet comparatively speaking at only two minutes but in this instance that's all that's required. The piece is highly chromatic with a subdued quality and really says a lot with a minimum of effort.
My recommendation would be Das Liebesmahl der apostle, a fascinating choral work with orchestral entry only near the end (maybe similar to the Choral fantasia, and Bruckner's Helgoland): you can hear Wagner's early endless melody technique, and the controversial ongoing shapelessnes to it...
Really though, it's a complete disgrace to think there's no box set of the non-operatic works.
Quote from: Sean on March 04, 2009, 02:41:46 PM
My recommendation would be Das Liebesmahl der apostle, a fascinating choral work with orchestral entry only near the end (maybe similar to the Choral fantasia, and Bruckner's Helgoland): you can hear Wagner's early endless melody technique, and the controversial ongoing shapelessnes to it...
Really though, it's a complete disgrace to think there's no box set of the non-operatic works.
Not really. Given that Wagner's popularity resides entirely on his operas, it isn't even a mini-disgrace.
Quote from: Sean on March 04, 2009, 02:41:46 PM
Really though, it's a complete disgrace to think there's no box set of the non-operatic works.
But the piano music is simply rubbish! Why wish for a box of dubious overall quality when you can pick and choose the better works seperately?
Quote from: Lethe on March 04, 2009, 03:33:05 PM
But the piano music is simply rubbish!
Not all of it is rubbish. The
Albumblatt for Piano (Dedication) I mentioned above is gorgeous.
We need to have the full picture of the man, rubbish or otherwise. And yes, I did buy the 2CD piano music set, which includes one or two interesting Lisztian efforts.
And have the Die Hochzeit fragments been recorded?
Quote from: donwyn on March 04, 2009, 03:43:48 PM
Not all of it is rubbish. The Albumblatt for Piano (Dedication) I mentioned above is gorgeous.
Hehe, I admit some overstatement. :) Like Nietzsche's piano music, there are a few neat works which would be fun surprises in piano recitials performed by a dedicated advocate. But their impression would probably be enhanced by removing them from the less inspired works...
Quote from: Sean on March 04, 2009, 03:48:59 PM
We need to have the full picture of the man, rubbish or otherwise. And yes, I did buy the 2CD piano music set, which includes one or two interesting Lisztian efforts.
Music like this must require stronger advocacy than just a run-through as is common with neglected music, or it could be easilly dismissed as mediocre. A major problem with the box idea would be recording or licencing all these 'ideal' performances into a strong set. If done on the cheap (which it only could be, really - who would buy it?) it would be panned. This is why I figure that the lack of a box is not disgraceful, it's just impractical. If anyone wishes to pick among the scraps, they already can - and with the pick of the field, the performances you will be better than any cheapo complete edition could allow.
Aside from my previous post: I would like to see a Das Liebesmahl der Apostle/Wesendonck Lieder coupling, for a nice disc of quality vocal works. I am only familiar with DLDA through an oop disc coupled with Bruckner's Heilgoland. It could be an interesting project for a label like Hyperion...
Quote from: Lethe on March 04, 2009, 03:59:56 PM
Hehe, I admit some overstatement. :) Like Nietzsche's piano music, there are a few neat works which would be fun surprises in piano recitials performed by a dedicated advocate.
That's fair. I guess it's no coincidence the performance I have is by Richter, who wouldn't touch a work he didn't enjoy. :)
Quote from: Lethe on March 04, 2009, 03:59:56 PM
Music like this must require stronger advocacy than just a run-through as is common with neglected music, or it could be easilly dismissed as mediocre. A major problem with the box idea would be recording or licencing all these 'ideal' performances into a strong set. If done on the cheap (which it only could be, really - who would buy it?) it would be panned. This is why I figure that the lack of a box is not disgraceful, it's just impractical. If anyone wishes to pick among the scraps, they already can - and with the pick of the field, the performances you will be better than any cheapo complete edition could allow.
Well, Boulez did it twice with Webern, for instance, and it works well with one person directing the overall project.
Quote from: Lethe on March 04, 2009, 04:06:26 PM
Aside from my previous post: I would like to see a Das Liebesmahl der Apostle/Wesendonck Lieder coupling, for a nice disc of quality vocal works. I am only familiar with DLDA through an oop disc coupled with Bruckner's Heilgoland. It could be an interesting project for a label like Hyperion...
I concur. All three works deserve more recordings.
Quote from: donwyn on March 04, 2009, 02:18:38 PM
There's actually something very special about at least one Wagner piano piece: the Albumblatt for Piano (Dedication).
Hey donwyn,
Is there any chance you have a bit more detail on the piece? I was talking to a pianist friend and by chance mentioned your post and Wagner piano music, but when we hit up some electronic resources we discovered there are three dedicated albumblatter:
Albumblatt for Piano in C major "In das Album der Fürstin Metternich"
Albumblatt for Piano in E flat major "Für Frau Betty Schott"
Albumblatt for Piano in E major "Für E. B. Kietz"
along with one plain old "Albumblatt" free of dedication.
Sorry to cause further trouble :D
Quote from: Sean on March 04, 2009, 02:41:46 PM
My recommendation would be Das Liebesmahl der apostle, a fascinating choral work with orchestral entry only near the end (maybe similar to the Choral fantasia, you can hear ........controversial ongoing shapelessnes to it...
So nothing like the Beethoven then; where the chorus comes in only at the end and the piece is quite formally framed.
Mike
Quote from: Sean on March 04, 2009, 04:58:42 PM
Well, Boulez did it twice with Webern, for instance, and it works well with one person directing the overall project.
But Wagner's non-opera works get much less currency than Webern's.
Quote from: Bulldog on March 05, 2009, 10:12:10 AM
But Wagner's non-opera works get much less currency than Webern's.
Hehe, I read that was Weber for a moment - now
there is a great composer who doesn't get his due, even in his greatest works (bar perhaps Freischütz)...
The C major symphony, which was written when Wagner was 19, is not bad at all, and nothing for a young composer to be ashamed of.
It's pleasantly melodic, and the scherzo reminds me of the one from Schubert's rarely heard 6th symphony, which I doubt that Wagner knew.
The second symphony is only a fragment. Sawallsich has recorded both with the Philadelphia for EMI, although I don't know if it's still available. There have been a few other recordings of the C major, including one on Phillips by Edo De Waart and the San Francisco symphony. You won't regret getting a recording if any is available currently.
Quote from: knight on March 05, 2009, 10:05:55 AM
So nothing like the Beethoven then; where the chorus comes in only at the end and the piece is quite formally framed.
I couldn't quite remember how it worked...the various entries are staggered though...
Quote from: Brian on March 05, 2009, 07:51:41 AM
Hey donwyn,
Is there any chance you have a bit more detail on the piece? I was talking to a pianist friend and by chance mentioned your post and Wagner piano music, but when we hit up some electronic resources we discovered there are three dedicated albumblatter:
Albumblatt for Piano in C major "In das Album der Fürstin Metternich"
Albumblatt for Piano in E flat major "Für Frau Betty Schott"
Albumblatt for Piano in E major "Für E. B. Kietz"
along with one plain old "Albumblatt" free of dedication.
Sorry to cause further trouble :D
Hey, you're not really sorry until you hand over your Chopin collection to me. ;D
Seriously, what I didn't realize is the piece is actually unpublished. And like you say the Web isn't much help in tracking it down.
I checked the booklet to the Richter recording I have and the author is as clueless about the piece as the rest of us. He even solicits help from the public to help in identifying the piece.
I had to go back to one of my old issues of Fanfare (1993, Vol.17, no.2) and buried in the review of the Richter recording is this interesting bit of information:
"...the unpublished minature attributed to Wagner - which, according to the narrative passed on to Music & Arts' exec Fred Maroth by Richter authority Falk Schwarz, was supposedly handed down in manuscript from the Wagner family to Toscanini to Horowitz to Richter - is played
[unrelated technical stuff omitted]..."
So the piece has never been published but obviously it's been around. I can only conclude that the Richter estate is now in possession of the manuscript.
I
do know that the work turns up in all of Richter's repertory information as being a Wagner piece. Period. The latest coming in Monsaingeon's scholarly book,
Notebooks and Conversations.
An intriguing mystery! But any mystery that can be experienced (sampled? solved?) by purchasing a Richter recital, well ... what a hardship! :D
P.S. "Hand over the Chopin and no one gets hurt"? :D
;) ;)