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The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: vandermolen on March 28, 2009, 04:22:22 PM

Title: Josef Suk 1874-1935
Post by: vandermolen on March 28, 2009, 04:22:22 PM
Very surprised that there has not, as far as I can see, been a thread devoted to this great composer. I have just bought the new excellent CD of Suk's magnificent 'Asrael Symphony' (see below). This is Suk's masterpiece, inspired by the death of his father-in-law, Dvorak and the death of his young wife, Otylka. In many ways it is a very tragic work, quite Mahlerian in places, which eventually arrives at a kind of fragile acceptance of fate, which is deeply moving. Suk's other works are of a uniformly high standard (including some lovely chamber works), but Asrael stands head and shoulders above everything else:
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: sul G on March 28, 2009, 04:29:19 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on March 28, 2009, 04:22:22 PM
Very surprised that there has not, as far as I can see, been a thread devoted to this great composer. I have just bought the new excellent CD of Suk's magnificent 'Asrael Symphony' (see below). This is Suk's masterpiece, inspired by the death of his father-in-law, Dvorak and the death of his young wife, Otylka. In many ways it is a very tragic work, quite Mahlerian in places, which eventusally sarrives at a kind of fragile acceptance of fate, which is deeply moving. Suk's other works are of a uniformly high standard (including some lovely chamber works), but Asrael stands head and shoulders above everything else:


Suk's one of the greats of the early 20th century, one of the most interesting and personal of the late romantics, and I'm with you on all of the above - except, perhaps, the ranking of the magnificent Asrael above everything else! Not only are there other orchestral pieces which I think are equally fine (personally, I think Pohadka Leta - A Summer's Tale - is even finer and more subtle) but there's also a risk of equating scale of utterance with quality. Asrael has a flipside, for instance, in the piano cycle About Mother which Suk wrote for his son - the same depth of feeling concerning the same tragedy, but here painfully intimate and familial in tone, not projected onto a cosmic canvas as is the case with the orchestral work. I think the two works complement each other perfectly - and that it's only a matter of taste as to which is more powerful. As I tend to react more strongly to intimacy and fragility in music than I do to large-scale, ambitious piece, About Mother affects me even more than Asrael.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: J on March 28, 2009, 04:47:22 PM
I've always especially loved Suk's cantata "Under the Apple Tree" and the Serenade.  I'm amazed at how many recordings of Asrael are now in the catalog - a dozen or more.  I bought the Pesek/Virgin CD back when I believe the only alternatives were Kubelik and Neumann.  Are any of the subsequent releases consensually (ha - does that ever happen) superior to Pesek? 
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Dundonnell on March 28, 2009, 04:48:45 PM
I am not absolutely sure that I can agree either with you, Jeffrey, that 'Asrael' is Suk's masterpiece-fantastically fine work though it certainly is, moving, powerful and passionate.

Two of Suk's later big works are equally impressive, in my opinion. They are both large-scale and ambitious(sorry, Luke :)) but the Symphonic Poem 'Ripening'('Zrani') of 1913-18 and the 'Epilogue' for soloists, chorus and orchestra which Suk worked on from 1920 until 1932 are masterpieces of rich, complex harmony and profound and visionary spirit. Essential parts of any Suk collection :)
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: sul G on March 28, 2009, 04:51:59 PM
Quote from: Dundonnell on March 28, 2009, 04:48:45 PM
...They are both large-scale and ambitious(sorry, Luke :))...

yes, well, I could hardly expect anything else, could I  ;D ;D ;) ;)    Wonderful pieces, of course, these two. Though I still prefer Summer's Tale because it has a greater transparency and lightness and many of Suk's most potent thematic ideas - it's a wonderfully shimmering work that never loses focus.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Dundonnell on March 28, 2009, 04:53:31 PM
Quote from: J on March 28, 2009, 04:47:22 PM
I've always especially loved Suk's cantata "Under the Apple Tree" and the Serenade.  I'm amazed at how many recordings of Asrael are now in the catalog - a dozen or more.  I bought the Pesek/Virgin CD back when I believe the only alternatives were Kubelik and Neumann.  Are any of the subsequent releases consensually (ha - does that ever happen) superior to Pesek? 

I too have the Pesek version of 'Asrael' and have been very happy with it but the Chandos/Czech PO/Belohlavek gets excellent write-ups as being just that bit more urgent and better played.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Dundonnell on March 28, 2009, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: sul G on March 28, 2009, 04:51:59 PM
yes, well, I could hardly expect anything else, could I  ;D ;D ;) ;)    Wonderful pieces, of course, these two. Though I still prefer Summer's Tale because it has a greater transparency and lightness and many of Suk's most potent thematic ideas - it's a wonderfully shimmering work that never loses focus.

Oh dear...my tastes are so predictably gargantuan ;D ;D

I agree that 'A Summer's Tale' is a beautiful piece :) Actually, I am not sure that Suk, who was a superb musical craftsman, was capable of writing music that was not beautifully constructed and full of life(although the 'War Triptych' does contain some pretty bombastic passages!).
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: vandermolen on March 28, 2009, 05:14:02 PM
Thanks for responses. Some, if not all of you, know more of Suk's music than I do - but at least we started a discussion on a very fine composer. Apart from Asrael and the chamber music I like the CD below - especially the Legend of the Dead Victors (which is, I fear, the piece Colin finds bombastic  ;D) and the Meditation on an Old Czech Hymn. St Wenceslas (the last piece in this tryptich 'Towards a New Life' is indeed bombastic - but I rather like the symphonic poem, 'Prague', with its very atmospheric opening). I will certainly look out for  piano piece 'About Mother' - thanks Sul.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Dundonnell on March 28, 2009, 05:48:14 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on March 28, 2009, 05:14:02 PM
Thanks for responses. Some, if not all of you, know more of Suk's music than I do - but at least we started a discussion on a very fine composer. Apart from Asrael and the chamber music I like the CD below - especially the Legend of the Dead Victors (which is, I fear, the piece Colin finds bombastic  ;D) and the Meditation on an Old Czech Hymn. St Wenceslas (the last piece in this tryptich 'Towards a New Life' is indeed bombastic - but I rather like the symphonic poem, 'Prague', with its very atmospheric opening). I will certainly look out for  piano piece 'About Mother' - thanks Sul.

Oh, don't worry about me finding 'Towards a New Life' "bombastic". The word is not pejorative in my dictionary ;D ;D
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Daverz on March 28, 2009, 06:06:23 PM
I haven't heard the new Ashkenazy Asrael, but the Kubelik leaves Pesek and Neumann in the dust.  He just seems to understand the music so much better.  It may be heard to find at a reasonable price, and I'll admit that I downloaded it via bittorrent.  Talich is also special, of course, but the work really needs the best sound possible. 

Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Grazioso on March 29, 2009, 04:15:41 AM
Here's a worthy box set for newcomers to Suk:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51XCDGCNXXL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Personally, I prefer his sunnier, more Dvorakian works from before the deaths of his wife and father-in-law. And over Asrael, I'd recommend Summer Tale:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41T08158RTL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

(The included Fantastic Scherzo is a prime example of the earlier, cheerier, more immediately melodic Suk. This could easily be a popular canonical piece.)
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: bhodges on March 30, 2009, 11:29:33 AM
Quote from: Grazioso on March 29, 2009, 04:15:41 AM
And over Asrael, I'd recommend Summer Tale:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41T08158RTL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

(The included Fantastic Scherzo is a prime example of the earlier, cheerier, more immediately melodic Suk. This could easily be a popular canonical piece.)

Of the two Summer's Tale recordings I have heard, I like the Mackerras above slightly better, but Pešek's (below) is a marvelous one, too.  Like Asrael, a great piece, filled with imagination and many interesting colors.

--Bruce

Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: vandermolen on March 30, 2009, 01:48:03 PM
Quote from: Grazioso on March 29, 2009, 04:15:41 AM
Here's a worthy box set for newcomers to Suk:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51XCDGCNXXL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Personally, I prefer his sunnier, more Dvorakian works from before the deaths of his wife and father-in-law. And over Asrael, I'd recommend Summer Tale:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41T08158RTL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

(The included Fantastic Scherzo is a prime example of the earlier, cheerier, more immediately melodic Suk. This could easily be a popular canonical piece.)

These are both excellent recommendations.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Superhorn on April 02, 2009, 08:57:39 AM
   Another great work of Suk is "The Ripening", which might be called Ein Heldenleben for introverts. The work is intended to portray the process of maturing as a person,going through the various trials and tribulations of life.
  I found that this took a number of hearings to grasp, but I'm glad I made the effort.
   I have the superb Supraphon recording with the great Vaclav Talich and the Czech Philharmonic, in dated but listenable sound, coupled with the engaging suite from Raduz and Mahulena, the music to the play.
  I've also heard the more recent version with Libor Pesek and Liverpool,
also excellent, in up to date sound,coupled with Praga.
  I would recommend either,but if you want much better sound, go with Pesek.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: springrite on April 02, 2009, 09:03:16 AM
Confession time: As a hormonally charged youth in my early twenties, the reason I bought those Suk CDs from Supraphon was for the beautiful paintings of the nudes.

The fact that I discovered a great composer as a result is just the bonus that came with it. Can't name a favorite, but Epilogue, A Summer's Tale, Asrael and Ripening are all wonderful. The piano quartet and piano works are later discoveries.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: schweitzeralan on April 03, 2009, 07:19:29 AM
Quote from: Dundonnell on March 28, 2009, 04:48:45 PM
I am not absolutely sure that I can agree either with you, Jeffrey, that 'Asrael' is Suk's masterpiece-fantastically fine work though it certainly is, moving, powerful and passionate.

Two of Suk's later big works are equally impressive, in my opinion. They are both large-scale and ambitious(sorry, Luke :)) but the Symphonic Poem 'Ripening'('Zrani') of 1913-18 and the 'Epilogue' for soloists, chorus and orchestra which Suk worked on from 1920 until 1932 are masterpieces of rich, complex harmony and profound and visionary spirit. Essential parts of any Suk collection :)

I think that all three are magnificent masterpieces.  I listen to Suk frequently, as well as to Novak, Martinu, Janacek and Dobias.  Amazing musical country.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Superhorn on April 04, 2009, 07:03:16 AM
   I've always regretted that Suk never wrote any operas. His father-in-law Dvorak,Janacek and and Smetana all wrote wonderful operas.
  Does any one have an idea why Suk never did?  I'be be curious if any one has any ideas about this.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Dundonnell on April 04, 2009, 07:46:02 AM
Suk was a very introspective individual. His music, certainly after 1905 (with the exception of the War Triptych),  is concentrated on the internal emotions felt by the composer himself in response to love and to loss-the shattering deaths in such close proximity of his father-in-law, Dvorak, and his wife. The more 'public' genre of opera with its focus on the characters and responses of others appears to have held no attraction for Suk.

Incidentally, the Ashkenazy version of the 'Asrael Symphony' recently released got a pretty tepid review in 'International record Review'. The first movement was described as 'flaccid'.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Brian on April 04, 2009, 08:43:28 AM
Although I've never been able to get a handle on "A Summer's Tale" - too big and Mahlerian for me, at least for now - I am absolutely bowled over by the central movement, "Blind Musicians." So exquisite, so subtle, so heart-wrenching - brilliant.

Also an enormous fan of the Serenade for Strings, and would like to point out that the early, Dvorakian Symphony has one rockin' Bohemian scherzo.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: sul G on April 04, 2009, 01:45:10 PM
Quote from: Brian on April 04, 2009, 08:43:28 AM
Although I've never been able to get a handle on "A Summer's Tale" - too big and Mahlerian for me, at least for now - I am absolutely bowled over by the central movement, "Blind Musicians." So exquisite, so subtle, so heart-wrenching - brilliant.

Gorgeous, isn't it? Like the still mysterious hub around which the rest revolves. Not that I have the problem you relate with the rest of the work. I understand it, however - it just seems to me to be more of an issue with, say Ripening or Epilogue, which are longer, less concise spans of music than A Summer's Tale. It's a piece which seems, to me, to wear its form lightly and in the most dazzling colours. (I don't hear it as Mahlerian, btw - by the time of A Summer's Tale Suk was one of the few composers of his late-Romantic ilk to have discovered a truly personal, instantly recognisable style, and I think he goes beyond the stage of needing to be referred to in terms of any one else!  :) )
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: sul G on April 04, 2009, 01:50:55 PM
BTW, back when my score-setting was in the mid 50s on the 'mystery scores' thread (more than 400 scores ago!) I set a page of this Blind Musicians movement, an magical island of chamber intimacy in the centre of this massively orchestrated work. Here it is again:
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Brian on April 05, 2009, 09:45:27 AM
Quote from: sul G on April 04, 2009, 01:45:10 PM
Gorgeous, isn't it? Like the still mysterious hub around which the rest revolves. Not that I have the problem you relate with the rest of the work. I understand it, however - it just seems to me to be more of an issue with, say Ripening or Epilogue, which are longer, less concise spans of music than A Summer's Tale. It's a piece which seems, to me, to wear its form lightly and in the most dazzling colours. (I don't hear it as Mahlerian, btw - by the time of A Summer's Tale Suk was one of the few composers of his late-Romantic ilk to have discovered a truly personal, instantly recognisable style, and I think he goes beyond the stage of needing to be referred to in terms of any one else!  :) )
Well in that case, I have to listen again with open ears.  :)
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Mirror Image on July 04, 2010, 06:20:37 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on March 28, 2009, 04:22:22 PM
Very surprised that there has not, as far as I can see, been a thread devoted to this great composer. I have just bought the new excellent CD of Suk's magnificent 'Asrael Symphony' (see below). This is Suk's masterpiece, inspired by the death of his father-in-law, Dvorak and the death of his young wife, Otylka. In many ways it is a very tragic work, quite Mahlerian in places, which eventually arrives at a kind of fragile acceptance of fate, which is deeply moving. Suk's other works are of a uniformly high standard (including some lovely chamber works), but Asrael stands head and shoulders above everything else:

I have listened to Suk on/off for about a year now and each time I return to his music I gain a greater appreciation for what it is his music is about and what it is he's trying to express. His music is deeply personal and, like "Asrael," it often has a very tragic nature to it unless we're talking about lighter fare like "Fairy Tale" or "Fantasticke Scherzo," which reflect Suk in a brighter mood. One of my favortie works is "A Summer's Tale," which is just gorgeous.

I only have a 4-CD box set on Supraphon that is really good and I just ordered (the other day) a 2-CD set of "Asrael Symphony" and "A Summer's Tale" with Libor Pesek and the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic on Virgin, which came highly recommended to me from another Suk fan.

I guess we do have similar tastes, Vandermolen.  ;D
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Daverz on July 04, 2010, 08:31:00 PM
The best Asrael I know is Kubelik.  Simply miles ahead of the others I've heard (Pesek, Neumann, Ashkenazy, Flor) in terms of color and character.   That this recording is inaccessible is very frustrating (I only have an "illicit" 320 kbps download I got some years ago.)
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Mirror Image on July 04, 2010, 08:32:26 PM
Quote from: Daverz on July 04, 2010, 08:31:00 PMThat this recording is inaccessible is very frustrating (I only have an "illicit" 320 kbps download I got some years ago.)

Then why lead me on with false hope? :D

Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Daverz on July 04, 2010, 09:24:31 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 04, 2010, 08:32:26 PM
Then why lead me on with false hope? :D

I like to share the suffering. 

Perversely, I forgot the Talich recording.  I wouldn't put Kubelik above it but for the "historical" sound.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: vandermolen on July 05, 2010, 02:10:00 AM
I have the Kubelik Asrael Symphony (are you surprised? ;D). As it has disappeared I am happy to do a copy (or more accurately, get my daughter to do it). If you PM me.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: karlhenning on November 05, 2010, 11:30:35 AM
Here I am, late to another party.  But I am listening at last today to the Ashkenazy/Helsinki Phil recording of Asrael which Jeffrey cites in the OP. Marvelous piece!  And if there is anything "flaccid" about the first movement, I missed it . . . .

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 04, 2010, 06:20:37 PM
. . . and I just ordered (the other day) a 2-CD set of "Asrael Symphony" and "A Summer's Tale" with Libor Pesek and the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic on Virgin, which came highly recommended to me from another Suk fan.

I picked that up at an FYE yesterday for $12, and I am looking foward to cracking it open tomorrow.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: MDL on November 05, 2010, 01:21:49 PM
I fell in love with Asrael, Ripening and Summer's Tale but have yet to come to terms with Epilogue. I've got the Pesek and Neumann recordings, but it remains a closed book to me still.

Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Mirror Image on November 05, 2010, 08:58:34 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 05, 2010, 11:30:35 AMI picked that up at an FYE yesterday for $12, and I am looking foward to cracking it open tomorrow.

Let me know how it is, Karl. I haven't even listened to it yet and it's been how many months since I made that post that stated I had bought this 2-CD set? :D ;) So much to listen to, so little time.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: karlhenning on November 06, 2010, 04:28:25 AM
I did listen to the Asrael yesterday. On the whole, very good. There was the odd moment when I heard that the Liverpool brass weren't as on top of it as the Helsinki Phil, but nothing fatal.

Will listen to A Summer's Tale later today.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: MDL on November 08, 2010, 08:32:34 AM
Quote from: Daverz on July 04, 2010, 08:31:00 PM
The best Asrael I know is Kubelik.  Simply miles ahead of the others I've heard (Pesek, Neumann, Ashkenazy, Flor) in terms of color and character.   That this recording is inaccessible is very frustrating (I only have an "illicit" 320 kbps download I got some years ago.)

I got to know Asrael through Pesek's recording, so was surprised by Kubelik's version of the second movement; Pesek maintains a steady pace, whereas Kubelik pulls back each time the pizzicato strings reach the highest note of their slow march rhythm (at about 2 mins 45 secs). I'm playing Belohlavek's recording now and can perhaps detect a very subtle halting, but nothing like Kubelik's slam-on-the-brakes-for-a-moment.

It's the one part of Kubelik's performance that I don't like, having been used to Pesek's unwavering tread. But perhaps that was the composer's intention. I certainly wouldn't know.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Luke on November 08, 2010, 10:14:01 AM
Quote from: MDL on November 08, 2010, 08:32:34 AM
I got to know Asrael through Pesek's recording, so was surprised by Kubelik's version of the second movement; Pesek maintains a steady pace, whereas Kubelik pulls back each time the pizzicato strings reach the highest note of their slow march rhythm (at about 2 mins 45 secs). I'm playing Belohlavek's recording now and can perhaps detect a very subtle halting, but nothing like Kubelik's slam-on-the-brakes-for-a-moment.

It's the one part of Kubelik's performance that I don't like, having been used to Pesek's unwavering tread. But perhaps that was the composer's intention. I certainly wouldn't know.

It's not in the score, anyway.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: vandermolen on April 05, 2011, 01:43:51 PM
Just a brief plug for the late Charles Mackerras' recently released recording of Suk's 'Asrael' on Supraphon (from two live recordings in Prague during 2007). It is a great performance, slightly understated at times, but all the more affecting for it. The slow movement is the most moving I have heard and the recording generally excellent. A moving tribute to a great conductor (this is the last Mackerrras recording to be released on Supraphon).
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Daverz on April 05, 2011, 02:26:21 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on April 05, 2011, 01:43:51 PM
Just a brief plug for the late Charles Mackerras' recently released recording of Suk's 'Asrael' on Supraphon (from two live recordings in Prague during 2007). It is a great performance, slightly understated at times, but all the more affecting for it. The slow movement is the most moving I have heard and the recording generally excellent. A moving tribute to a great conductor (this is the last Mackerrras recording to be released on Supraphon).

Just listened to this yesterday and concur.  The sound isn't as impressive as some of the recent SACDs of this work, but none of the orchestras in those recent recordings can touch the Czech Philharmonic.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Grazioso on April 06, 2011, 05:31:56 AM
FWIW, very positive review of a new Suk disc:

http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=13285
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on April 06, 2011, 05:38:49 AM
Suk appears to have passed into the noteworthy (pun!) realm of those composers who hardly ever get played live, but get lots of attention from the recording companies. This is progress of a sort, because more people will notice his works and have access to them. We can only hope that the live scene will be influenced.

Sadly, he didn't even seem to get played much in Prague when I was there. I hope things are different now.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Grazioso on April 06, 2011, 05:53:41 AM
Quote from: Velimir on April 06, 2011, 05:38:49 AM
Suk appears to have passed into the noteworthy (pun!) realm of those composers who hardly ever get played live, but get lots of attention from the recording companies. This is progress of a sort, because more people will notice his works and have access to them. We can only hope that the live scene will be influenced.

Sadly, he didn't even seem to get played much in Prague when I was there. I hope things are different now.

I hope his Czech peer Novak gets more attention, as well. Some really fine Late Romantic music, but recordings are thin.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: vandermolen on April 06, 2011, 02:35:21 PM
Quote from: Grazioso on April 06, 2011, 05:53:41 AM
I hope his Czech peer Novak gets more attention, as well. Some really fine Late Romantic music, but recordings are thin.

Novak is one of my favourite composers - especially his epic cantata 'The Storm'. I hope that the May Symphony is receorded one day. I also like the South Bohemian Suite, De Profundis and Eight Nocturnes for Voice and Orchestra - the last of which 'Christchild's Lullaby' is absolutely beautiful and very moving. There is some excellent chamber music including the Piano Quintet.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Leo K. on April 07, 2011, 09:26:21 AM
What about Suk's chamber music? Any recommends to look out for?
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Grazioso on April 07, 2011, 09:38:09 AM
Quote from: Leo K on April 07, 2011, 09:26:21 AM
What about Suk's chamber music? Any recommends to look out for?

There's a complete 3-disc set on Supraphon. I have it but haven't heard it yet, so I can't vouch for it.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Lethevich on April 07, 2011, 06:10:17 PM
The Hyperion disc of the piano quartet and quintet is highly recommendable, his quartets are very fine but I find them to be less essential given the competition in the field even amongst his compatriots.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Mirror Image on August 12, 2011, 07:35:02 PM
I find myself enjoying Pohadka "Fairy Tale" more and more each time I hear it. I guess it's the orchestration and harmonies. I especially like the Funeral Music section which is only a 6-7 minute movement, but is so poignant and haunting.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Mirror Image on June 06, 2012, 09:12:31 AM
Looks like a new recording of Asrael is in the pipeline and coupled with Britten's Sinfonia da Requiem:

[asin]B0083SEJU8[/asin]

Anyone else going to be buying this? I know I am! Belohlavek is one of my favorite conductors of Czech music.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Mirror Image on June 06, 2012, 09:41:36 AM
Has anyone heard this Asrael recording:

[asin]B002J0QDNM[/asin]
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Mirror Image on June 06, 2012, 09:57:00 AM
Suk's music can divided up into two distinct periods: the works before Asrael which are all the pre-1905-06 works where his musical language contained more folk-like melodies and his harmony more bright and definitely in a late-Romantic idiom, then Asrael and everything after a shift in tone occurs. The music became more introspective, grim, and tragic. The musical language relied less on his earlier phase and he began to develop his own highly personal style. I wonder where he would have gone had he lived longer? His music was definitely approaching early Modernism. The last large scale work he composed was Epilogue which is something he worked on for nine years written for soloists, chorus, and orchestra. Suk, along with Janacek and Martinu, is one of the more interesting Czech composers of the 20th Century IMHO. He created his own personal idiom and he wrote from his heart. An incredible composer.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: DieNacht on June 06, 2012, 10:02:28 AM
"Things Lived and Dreamed op.30" is probably his most interesting piano work, a cycle somewhat modernistic, quirky and approahing the daring cycles of Janacek. There is a fine historical recording by Frantisek Maxian and a fine one by Pavel Stepan too. I haven´t heard the Naxos recording or others.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Mirror Image on June 06, 2012, 10:06:00 AM
Quote from: DieNacht on June 06, 2012, 10:02:28 AM
"Things Lived and Dreamed" is probably his most interesting piano work, a cycle somewhat modernistic, quirky and approahing the daring cycles of Janacek. There is a fine historical recording by Frantisek Maxian and a fine one by Pavel Stepan too. I haven´t heard the Naxos recording.

Cool, thanks for the suggestion. I would like to get Suk's chamber works too, but it appears the Supraphon box set is out-of-print. I should have bought when I had the chance.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: thulium on March 11, 2013, 04:48:04 AM
Hello, recently I felt in love with Josef Suk's Scherzo Fantastique op. 25. If you never listened to it before I strongly suggest you to do it. I am amazed by the fact that there is so much great music, however not so famous, because a lot composers lived in the shadow of others.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Lisztianwagner on September 26, 2014, 03:00:55 AM
Josef Suk's About Mother was strongly recommended to me; indeed it's a wonderful solo piano set, I liked it very much, especially the third and the fourth piece. The nocturnal How Mother Sang at Night to the Sick Child is quiet and peaceful, but at the same time also deep, thoughtful and evocative; the pedal ostinato and the development of the melody through various tonal progressions depict a beautiful atmosphere. About Mother's Heart is melancholic, but very fascinating; I loved how the irregular ostinato softly shades in perdendosi before the lyrical, sweet middle section, as well as the changes in mood and dynamics, very suggestive and meaninful.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: vandermolen on September 27, 2014, 10:26:17 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 06, 2012, 09:41:36 AM
Has anyone heard this Asrael recording:

[asin]B002J0QDNM[/asin]

Only two years later! Yes, great performance.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Mirror Image on September 27, 2014, 07:14:01 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on September 27, 2014, 10:26:17 AM
Only two years later! Yes, great performance.

Ha! Thanks, Jeffrey. 8)
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Rinaldo on October 16, 2015, 12:53:18 PM
Listening to the Mackerras disc with Czech Phil. and boy, am I late to the party or what? Summer's Tale conclusion is simply GORGEOUS and what can I say about the Fantastic scherzo that hasn't been said already? Should definitely be part of the canon, dammit! Such lovely, lovely work.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Scion7 on October 16, 2015, 01:17:49 PM
to hear Suk regularly, if at all, in-concert, I'm afraid you'd have to be in the Czech Republic . . .

Very good composer, and grandson a great violinist!
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Rinaldo on October 16, 2015, 01:37:25 PM
Quote from: Scion7 on October 16, 2015, 01:17:49 PM
to hear Suk regularly, if at all, in-concert, I'm afraid you'd have to be in the Czech Republic.

I am ;) And believe it or not, still catching up with some of the great composers my country has to offer.

With Suk, I was underwhelmed when l listened to Azrael years ago, but now he certainly has my full attention.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: North Star on October 16, 2015, 01:40:13 PM
Quote from: Rinaldo on October 16, 2015, 01:37:25 PM
I am ;) And believe it or not, still catching up with some of the great composers my country has to offer.

With Suk, I was underwhelmed when l listened to Azrael years ago, but now he certainly has my full attention.
Two words for you, Rinaldo: About Mother.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Scion7 on October 16, 2015, 01:54:00 PM
sorry, didn't notice your location - duh!  :-)   

Land of Dvorak, Smetana, and the rest.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: vandermolen on October 16, 2015, 02:56:55 PM
Quote from: Rinaldo on October 16, 2015, 12:53:18 PM
Listening to the Mackerras disc with Czech Phil. and boy, am I late to the party or what? Summer's Tale conclusion is simply GORGEOUS and what can I say about the Fantastic scherzo that hasn't been said already? Should definitely be part of the canon, dammit! Such lovely, lovely work.
Great disc.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Rinaldo on October 17, 2015, 05:30:39 AM
Quote from: North Star on October 16, 2015, 01:40:13 PM
Two words for you, Rinaldo: About Mother.

Duly noted! Found this performance at the Czech Museum of Music:

https://www.youtube.com/v/hRwwkf-z22I
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: GioCar on July 27, 2016, 06:35:30 AM
Just bought 3 CDs with a selection of Suk's orchestral works, conducted by Kirill Petrenko.

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_1080/MI0001/087/MI0001087338.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/122/MI0001122735.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/195/MI0001195339.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

I'm quite curious. I've never heard Kirill Petrenko - actually he made very few recordings so far - and I've read somewhere he has been championing Suk's music for years.
Here with a Berlin Orchestra, of course, but not yet the famous one... ;)


Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Cato on July 27, 2016, 07:20:20 AM
Quote from: GioCar on July 27, 2016, 06:35:30 AM
Just bought 3 CDs with a selection of Suk's orchestral works, conducted by Kirill Petrenko.
I'm quite curious. I've never heard Kirill Petrenko - actually he made very few recordings so far - and I've read somewhere he has been championing Suk's music for years.
Here with a Berlin Orchestra, of course, but not yet the famous one... ;)

So...are they good?  Great?  Or something else?  0:)
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Scion7 on July 27, 2016, 08:17:19 AM
Quote from: GioCar on July 27, 2016, 06:35:30 AM
I'm quite curious. I've never heard Kirill Petrenko - actually he made very few recordings so far - and I've read somewhere he has been championing Suk's music for years.

Then he at least has good taste!  Excellent composer with a grandson who is one of the great 20th century violinists.

Please give an update as soon as you can on these . . .  I have tons of Supraphon recordings of Suk, among other labels.  A favorite.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Daverz on July 27, 2016, 01:02:47 PM
Quote from: Scion7 on July 27, 2016, 08:17:19 AM
Then he at least has good taste!  Excellent composer with a grandson who is one of the great 20th century violinists.

Please give an update as soon as you can on these . . .  I have tons of Supraphon recordings of Suk, among other labels.  A favorite.

Petrenko's Asrael is excellent.  Even considering competition like Mackerras and Kubelik, this performance is very, very good.  Been a while since I listened to the disc with Ripening, though, and I don't have this A Summer's Tale.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: GioCar on July 27, 2016, 07:52:39 PM
Quote from: Cato on July 27, 2016, 07:20:20 AM
So...are they good?  Great?  Or something else?  0:)

Quote from: Scion7 on July 27, 2016, 08:17:19 AM
Please give an update as soon as you can on these . . .

They are in my listening backlog. Hopefully I'll give them a spin in the weekend.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Scion7 on July 27, 2016, 08:08:07 PM
You could be hit by a speeding micro-meteor before the weekend.
I vote you execute Emergency Overide Archimedes, and put them in the queue right now!

0:)

Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: GioCar on July 27, 2016, 11:29:06 PM
Quote from: Scion7 on July 27, 2016, 08:08:07 PM
You could be hit by a speeding micro-meteor before the weekend.
I vote you execute Emergency Overide Archimedes, and put them in the queue right now!

0:)

lol

More likely I could be shot in an ISIS terrorist attack  :o
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: cilgwyn on May 12, 2017, 03:40:20 AM
I just posted this in the "What are you listening to now" thread.

"I'm listening to Suk's Asrael Symphony. This is a good value for money set if you're on a budget and want to investigate the music of this composer. Big,epic,late romantic blockbusters with massive,noisy climaxes,and lots of wonderful quiet bits as well. Grreeeeat!!!! :) :) :) I've got his other blockbusters,Ripening,and Epilogue,lined up for when I've finished with these two!".

(http://i.imgur.com/AMAgUIX.jpg)
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: cilgwyn on May 12, 2017, 04:11:46 AM
I love the big,noisy,pulverising orchestral climaxes in these blockbusters. What not to like?!! Yeeeeeee-hoooooo!! ??? :o ;D :) :) :) :)

(http://i.imgur.com/AMAgUIX.jpg)
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Mirror Image on May 12, 2017, 06:37:51 AM
Quote from: cilgwyn on May 12, 2017, 04:11:46 AM
I love the big,noisy,pulverising orchestral climaxes in these blockbusters. What not to like?!! Yeeeeeee-hoooooo!! ??? :o ;D :) :) :) :)

(http://i.imgur.com/AMAgUIX.jpg)

Asrael Symphony has been a work that hasn't done much for me. I'm not sure why this is the case as I'm quite a fan of 'tragic' symphonies, but there's just something missing here that I can't quite put my finger on. A Summer's Tale, on the other hand, I really enjoy. Fairy Tale is another feather in Suk's cap as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: cilgwyn on May 12, 2017, 07:22:31 AM
I can't help but agree,really. My initial exhilaration at some of the undoubted skill and imagination,not to mention the thunderous climaxes that I might have brained my parents with when I was a youngster ( if I'd known about it back then?) usually drains off towards the end. Some critics have compared the Asrael to Mahler. And as a fan of Mahler,that's the problem. It is an impressive piece of music. I can't really fault it;but there is something missing. If it wasn't all so skilfully put together I'd be able to put my finger on it more easily. It's even got a good tune. Probably the best bit in the work,with that aching,yearning theme in the strings. I find it quite memorable. Still,not everyone can be a Mahler! ;D Yes,I prefer A Summers Tale,too. I think the Asrael is worth a listen now and again,though,if only to puzzle over and give my music system a noisy workout!! ;D
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: cilgwyn on May 12, 2017, 07:38:44 AM
Ripening now. I prefer this to the Asrael;which reservations aside,I did actually enjoy!

(http://i.imgur.com/a3Nc2CH.jpg)
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: vandermolen on May 13, 2017, 06:45:45 AM
I love 'Asrael' a deeply moving work. I reckon I have at least half a dozen recordings of it. ::)

Let's think:

Pesek
Neuman
Talich
Kubelik
Svetlanov
Malaysian SO version (VG) (Flor)
Ashkenazy (VG)
Chandos recording (Belholavec)
Weller
Mackerrass (excellent)

That's ten off the top of my head.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Mirror Image on May 13, 2017, 07:34:51 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 13, 2017, 06:45:45 AM
I love 'Asrael' a deeply moving work. I reckon I have at least half a dozen recordings of it. ::)

Let's think:

Pesek
Neuman
Tallich
Kubelik
Svetlanov
Malaysian SO version (VG) (Flor)
Ashkenazy (VG)
Chandos recording (Belholavec)
Weller
Mackerras (excellent)

That's ten off the top of my head.

Belohlavek has recorded Asrael twice actually (also on Supraphon coupled with Britten's Sinfonia da Requiem).
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Daverz on May 13, 2017, 09:32:35 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 13, 2017, 06:45:45 AM
I love 'Asrael' a deeply moving work. I reckon I have at least half a dozen recordings of it. ::)

Let's think:

Pesek
Neuman
Tallich
Kubelik
Svetlanov
Malaysian SO version (VG) (Flor)
Ashkenazy (VG)
Chandos recording (Belholavec)
Weller
Mackerrass (excellent)

That's ten off the top of my head.

A dark horse I really like is Petrenko with the Berlin Comic Opera Orchestra (the other Petrenko).  The other top choices would be Mackerras, Kubelik (difficult to find) and Talich.

Ugh, I see I'm just repeating what I wrote nearly a year ago.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Daverz on May 13, 2017, 09:42:38 AM
Quote from: cilgwyn on May 12, 2017, 07:22:31 AM
I can't help but agree,really. My initial exhilaration at some of the undoubted skill and imagination,not to mention the thunderous climaxes that I might have brained my parents with when I was a youngster ( if I'd known about it back then?) usually drains off towards the end. Some critics have compared the Asrael to Mahler. And as a fan of Mahler,that's the problem. It is an impressive piece of music. I can't really fault it;but there is something missing. If it wasn't all so skilfully put together I'd be able to put my finger on it more easily. It's even got a good tune. Probably the best bit in the work,with that aching,yearning theme in the strings. I find it quite memorable. Still,not everyone can be a Mahler! ;D Yes,I prefer A Summers Tale,too. I think the Asrael is worth a listen now and again,though,if only to puzzle over and give my music system a noisy workout!! ;D

Agree completely.  Though I treasure his music, Suk does not have the clarity, directness, and universality of Mahler, he's much more reticent.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: vandermolen on May 13, 2017, 10:38:43 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 13, 2017, 07:34:51 AM
Belohlavek has recorded Asrael twice actually (also on Supraphon coupled with Britten's Sinfonia da Requiem).
Yes, and I have both of them!
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: vandermolen on May 13, 2017, 10:44:04 AM
Quote from: Daverz on May 13, 2017, 09:32:35 AM
A dark horse I really like is Petrenko with the Berlin Comic Opera Orchestra (the other Petrenko).  The other top choices would be Mackerras, Kubelik (difficult to find) and Talich.

Ugh, I see I'm just repeating what I wrote nearly a year ago.
I have that one too.  Which makes twelve recordings including two by Belohlavek.
OCD  :(
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: kyjo on May 31, 2019, 07:45:41 AM
Though Suk's mature works such as Asrael and A Summer's Tale are often regarded as his masterpieces (for good reason, though I struggle a bit with them, especially the latter), I find his sunnier, earlier works to be more accessible and not without individuality. Recently, I discovered his wonderful Symphony no. 1 in E major and Fantastic Scherzo - both are wonderful, open-hearted works full of memorable themes (in particular, the lilting, slightly melancholy main theme of the latter is impossible to dislodge from the brain). Sure, one can hear the influence of Suk's beloved teacher, Dvorak, but Suk has a very personal lyricism all his own. His opus 1 Piano Quartet is also a superb work.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: vandermolen on May 31, 2019, 09:31:02 AM
Quote from: kyjo on May 31, 2019, 07:45:41 AM
Though Suk's mature works such as Asrael and A Summer's Tale are often regarded as his masterpieces (for good reason, though I struggle a bit with them, especially the latter), I find his sunnier, earlier works to be more accessible and not without individuality. Recently, I discovered his wonderful Symphony no. 1 in E major and Fantastic Scherzo - both are wonderful, open-hearted works full of memorable themes (in particular, the lilting, slightly melancholy main theme of the latter is impossible to dislodge from the brain). Sure, one can hear the influence of Suk's beloved teacher, Dvorak, but Suk has a very personal lyricism all his own. His opus 1 Piano Quartet is also a superb work.
There is some great chamber works. My favourite orchestral works are 'Asrael', 'Fantastic Scherzo' and 'Prague'. Am not so keen on A Summer's Tale and Ripening. I like Meditation on an Old Czech Hymn which exists in chamber and orchestral versions.
I recall this as a great disc:

Also, a strong recommendation for this CD (£2.00 on Amazon UK!)
(//)
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: SymphonicAddict on May 31, 2019, 04:58:18 PM
Quote from: kyjo on May 31, 2019, 07:45:41 AM
Though Suk's mature works such as Asrael and A Summer's Tale are often regarded as his masterpieces (for good reason, though I struggle a bit with them, especially the latter), I find his sunnier, earlier works to be more accessible and not without individuality. Recently, I discovered his wonderful Symphony no. 1 in E major and Fantastic Scherzo - both are wonderful, open-hearted works full of memorable themes (in particular, the lilting, slightly melancholy main theme of the latter is impossible to dislodge from the brain). Sure, one can hear the influence of Suk's beloved teacher, Dvorak, but Suk has a very personal lyricism all his own. His opus 1 Piano Quartet is also a superb work.

I also have some slight problems with A Summer's Tale, but lately I've come to appreciate it much better. Asrael is definitely right up my alley. Another work I find utterly charming and effective of his is A Fairy's Tale (Raduz and Mahulena). There is plenty of magic throughout that score. As for chamber music, the Piano Quintet and Piano Trio are worth listening. The 2 string quartets are in another league, too introspective for my tase, rather in the vein of the Schmidt's string quartets.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: vandermolen on May 31, 2019, 09:52:33 PM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on May 31, 2019, 04:58:18 PM
I also have some slight problems with A Summer's Tale, but lately I've come to appreciate it much better. Asrael is definitely right up my alley. Another work I find utterly charming and effective of his is A Fairy's Tale (Raduz and Mahulena). There is plenty of magic throughout that score. As for chamber music, the Piano Quintet and Piano Trio are worth listening. The 2 string quartets are in another league, too introspective for my tase, rather in the vein of the Schmidt's string quartets.
Oh, I forgot 'A Fairy Tale' - a charming work.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Irons on June 01, 2019, 05:57:11 AM
Suk's piano pieces are worth exploring. Possibly the most famous are "Things Lived and Dreamed" and "About Mother", both are autobiographical.

(http://www.shakedownrecords.biz/images/A/BOXLP_1498.jpg)

The young chap standing behind Josef Suk is Vaclav Talich.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: SymphonicAddict on June 15, 2019, 11:09:55 AM
(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/ib/9i/xezjic5qp9iib_600.jpg)

This disc contains music from the cantata Under the apple tree, and it's utterly fantastic! Czech late-Romanticism at its best, featuring some glorious choruses. It's a shame it's just a suite, not the whole score. It appears there is no a complete recording of it, sadly.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Irons on June 16, 2019, 01:48:08 AM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on June 15, 2019, 11:09:55 AM
(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/ib/9i/xezjic5qp9iib_600.jpg)

This disc contains music from the cantata Under the apple tree, and it's utterly fantastic! Czech late-Romanticism at its best, featuring some glorious choruses. It's a shame it's just a suite, not the whole score. It appears there is no a complete recording of it, sadly.

A fabulous recording of both Suk and Janacek. I have the LP which I treasure.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: SymphonicAddict on June 16, 2019, 09:13:46 AM
Quote from: Irons on June 16, 2019, 01:48:08 AM
A fabulous recording of both Suk and Janacek. I have the LP which I treasure.

I agree. I'm playing the Janacek later.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: kyjo on June 16, 2019, 05:14:39 PM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on June 16, 2019, 09:13:46 AM
I agree. I'm playing the Janacek later.

Oh, you're in for a real treat! Janacek's Amarus is gorgeous, as is another little-known oratorio of his, The Eternal Gospel. I haven't listened to the Suk yet.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: kyjo on June 16, 2019, 05:17:09 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 31, 2019, 09:31:02 AM
There is some great chamber works. My favourite orchestral works are 'Asrael', 'Fantastic Scherzo' and 'Prague'. Am not so keen on A Summer's Tale and Ripening. I like Meditation on an Old Czech Hymn which exists in chamber and orchestral versions.
I recall this as a great disc:

Also, a strong recommendation for this CD (£2.00 on Amazon UK!)
(//)

Thanks, Jeffrey. The Meditation on an Old Czech Hymn is indeed a marvelous, moving work - a great companion piece to works like Barber's Adagio, VW's Tallis Fantasia, Finzi's Romance, etc.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: kyjo on June 16, 2019, 05:19:26 PM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on May 31, 2019, 04:58:18 PM
I also have some slight problems with A Summer's Tale, but lately I've come to appreciate it much better. Asrael is definitely right up my alley. Another work I find utterly charming and effective of his is A Fairy's Tale (Raduz and Mahulena). There is plenty of magic throughout that score. As for chamber music, the Piano Quintet and Piano Trio are worth listening. The 2 string quartets are in another league, too introspective for my tase, rather in the vein of the Schmidt's string quartets.

Thanks, Cesar. I forgot about A Fairy Tale - a beautiful, magical score indeed. Also, I recall hearing part of his Fantasy for Violin and Orchestra on the radio and really liking it.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: relm1 on June 17, 2019, 06:54:04 AM
Hmm, lots of tantalizing music in this discussion from some very fine composers in one of my favorite musical periods.  Looking forward to an evening of discovery.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: SymphonicAddict on June 17, 2019, 10:42:44 AM
Quote from: kyjo on June 16, 2019, 05:14:39 PM
Oh, you're in for a real treat! Janacek's Amarus is gorgeous, as is another little-known oratorio of his, The Eternal Gospel. I haven't listened to the Suk yet.

Irons and you were right, Amarus impressed me a lot, it has the unmistakable Janacek flavour, dramatic choruses and a sense of tragedy (though not too much accentuated) masterfully depicted. The 3rd and 5th movement were the highlights. I loved the use of bells too. It gave me goosebumps.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: relm1 on June 17, 2019, 04:29:20 PM
So I listened to this and am reporting back yawn....NOT!  Fantastic music!   So much delight in discovering this new masterfully executed and colorful music.  Thanks for the recommendations.  Very wonderful music.  More please.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: kyjo on June 17, 2019, 06:32:16 PM
Quote from: relm1 on June 17, 2019, 04:29:20 PM
So I listened to this and am reporting back yawn....NOT!  Fantastic music!   So much delight in discovering this new masterfully executed and colorful music.  Thanks for the recommendations.  Very wonderful music.  More please.

Excellent! :) What works did you listen to?
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: kyjo on June 17, 2019, 06:35:01 PM
Also of note is Suk's charming little Serenade for cello and piano: https://youtu.be/pFTRwNhCJlA
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: André on August 19, 2019, 12:05:59 PM

Listened 3 times to this recording of Asrael:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Q-T%2BhHG%2BL.jpg)

I find it different from the others I know (Neumann, Pesek RLPO, Flor). I also listened to those, sandwiched between two listenings of the Weller. To my ears Weller finds a welcome symphonic cogency between the movements. He doesn't stint on the programmatic elements either. His take on the second movement (my favourite) is particularly telling, the Stabat Mater theme wafting in and out of the texture like a baleful apparition. All four versions are very good, Pesek very dramatic, Neumann taut and powerful, Flor expansive and rather rimskyan in his handling of the orchestral colours. There's something lisztian about Asrael (cf the Dante and Faust symphonies), probably tchaikovskian, too (Manfred), and that appeals to me. A great work.

In order, I would rank them this way: Neumann, Weller, Pesek, Flor.

I haven't listened to Ripening, A Summer Tale or Praga in a while. Time to give those another spin!
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Roasted Swan on August 19, 2019, 01:22:58 PM
Quote from: André on August 19, 2019, 12:05:59 PM
Listened 3 times to this recording of Asrael:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Q-T%2BhHG%2BL.jpg)

I find it different from the others I know (Neumann, Pesek RLPO, Flor). I also listened to those, sandwiched between two listenings of the Weller. To my ears Weller finds a welcome symphonic cogency between the movements. He doesn't stint on the programmatic elements either. His take on the second movement (my favourite) is particularly telling, the Stabat Mater theme wafting in and out of the texture like a baleful apparition. All four versions are very good, Pesek very dramatic, Neumann taut and powerful, Flor expansive and rather rimskyan in his handling of the orchestral colours. There's something lisztian about Asrael (cf the Dante and Faust symphonies), probably tchaikovskian, too (Manfred), and that appeals to me. A great work.

In order, I would rank them this way: Neumann, Weller, Pesek, Flor.

I haven't listened to Ripening, A Summer Tale or Praga in a while. Time to give those another spin!

As you say a great work and one that has benefited from several very fine recordings.  I would point you towards hearing Belohlavek's final version recently released on Decca as well as the Ancerl/Baden-Baden German Radio recording - a work of this scale and scope can never be served by a single performance or vision and both of those are very fine.  I haven't heard Flor - I like your description of "Rimskyan" - perhaps "Murometzyan" - implying something epic or mythic could be equally valid?!
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: André on August 19, 2019, 01:43:33 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on August 19, 2019, 01:22:58 PM
As you say a great work and one that has benefited from several very fine recordings.  I would point you towards hearing Belohlavek's final version recently released on Decca as well as the Ancerl/Baden-Baden German Radio recording - a work of this scale and scope can never be served by a single performance or vision and both of those are very fine.  I haven't heard Flor - I like your description of "Rimskyan" - perhaps "Murometzyan" - implying something epic or mythic could be equally valid?!

Thanks for the tip, I will certainly investigate. You're right, Murometzyan would be quite appropriate, except that the bombast associated with this work might result in overkill for Asrael  :).
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: vandermolen on August 19, 2019, 10:59:31 PM
Quote from: André on August 19, 2019, 01:43:33 PM
Thanks for the tip, I will certainly investigate. You're right, Murometzyan would be quite appropriate, except that the bombast associated with this work might result in overkill for Asrael  :).

Must listen to Weller again. I especially like Mackerras and Ancerl's recordings.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Roasted Swan on August 19, 2019, 11:13:56 PM
Quote from: André on August 19, 2019, 01:43:33 PM
Thanks for the tip, I will certainly investigate. You're right, Murometzyan would be quite appropriate, except that the bombast associated with this work might result in overkill for Asrael  :).

Slightly dark thought....... can you have overkill with the Angel of Death.....? (but I know exactly what you mean!)
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: vers la flamme on August 20, 2019, 11:06:08 AM
I randomly decided to go for a Naxos CD with Suk's Serenade for Strings (alongside Dvorak's). Haven't heard the Dvorak yet, but the Suk is great. Lush, Czech late Romanticism. It seems he would later gain acclaim for writing dark music. I can't say that this one is particularly dark, but it is definitely harmonically interesting at times. I want to hear his Asrael symphony.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: André on August 20, 2019, 12:46:04 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on August 19, 2019, 11:13:56 PM
Slightly dark thought....... can you have overkill with the Angel of Death.....? (but I know exactly what you mean!)

I had put the emoticon right after the word 'overkill', but decided it made too much of a wink, wink effect  ;)
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: kyjo on August 20, 2019, 01:00:13 PM
Quote from: vers la flamme on August 20, 2019, 11:06:08 AM
I randomly decided to go for a Naxos CD with Suk's Serenade for Strings (alongside Dvorak's). Haven't heard the Dvorak yet, but the Suk is great. Lush, Czech late Romanticism. It seems he would later gain acclaim for writing dark music. I can't say that this one is particularly dark, but it is definitely harmonically interesting at times. I want to hear his Asrael symphony.

Indeed, the Serenade for Strings is a real beauty! You'll also want to check out his 1st Symphony in E major and Fantastic Scherzo, two greatly life-affirming works also from his early period. Suk's style underwent a sharp change around 1904-05, when both his teacher Dvorak and his wife Otilie died in quick succession. His music became much more dark and psychological in contrast to his sunny, melodic earlier works.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: jidlomonster on September 25, 2021, 03:01:48 AM
I find that I love almost all of Suk's output (that I know) up to and including Asrael, but find most of his later music elusive and surprisingly unattractive.   But I'd like to add to the list of recommendations in the previous posts.  The G minor Fantasy for violin and orchestra is a wonderful work, and the suites 'Under the Apple Tree' and 'Fairytale' are irresistible too.  One of his best works is the symphonic poem 'Prague' - it uses a theme similar to the 'God's Warriors' chorale familiar from Smetana's 'Má vlast' - a theme that he constnatly transforms throughout the work with great skill and imagination.  On a smaller scale, the Four Pieces for violin and piano are also well worth investigating.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on September 25, 2021, 03:15:28 AM
A favorite Suk set/CDs of mine which I don't believe have been mentioned here before now

There's a lovely 3-CD set on Supraphon of his chamber works (also available separately):

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71KgGVa7qIL._SX355_.jpg)


PD
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Scion7 on September 25, 2021, 06:58:35 AM
^ Excellent stuff, PD.  He was a very good composer and grandson is a great violinist.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: kyjo on September 29, 2021, 05:24:10 AM
Quote from: jidlomonster on September 25, 2021, 03:01:48 AM
I find that I love almost all of Suk's output (that I know) up to and including Asrael, but find most of his later music elusive and surprisingly unattractive.   But I'd like to add to the list of recommendations in the previous posts.  The G minor Fantasy for violin and orchestra is a wonderful work, and the suites 'Under the Apple Tree' and 'Fairytale' are irresistible too.  One of his best works is the symphonic poem 'Prague' - it uses a theme similar to the 'God's Warriors' chorale familiar from Smetana's 'Má vlast' - a theme that he constnatly transforms throughout the work with great skill and imagination.  On a smaller scale, the Four Pieces for violin and piano are also well worth investigating.

I generally agree with you. Among his later works, I recall enjoying Ripening pretty well, but I struggled a bit with A Summer Tale, which some consider a masterpiece - I'll have to revisit it soon. But yes, I love all the earlier works you mention, along with of course the magical Fantastic Scherzo, the warm-hearted Serenade for Strings, the wonderfully life-enhancing 1st Symphony in E major, the astonishingly precocious Piano Quartet op. 1, the slightly more complex but still very attractive Piano Quintet, and the wonderfully contrasting Ballad and Serenade for cello and piano. To me, these works represent a wonderful continuation of the Czech Romantic tradition of his teacher, Dvorak.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Roasted Swan on October 15, 2021, 03:59:54 AM
When you sign up to the free Naxos Newsletter you get sent 2 free [FLAC or MP3] download links each month.  This month is a nailed-on gem;

(https://assets.onbuy.com/i11/product/63464e6e1aa946ee82e94608db39358c-m10151678/karel-anerl-ancerl-conducts-suk-asrael-karel-anerl-sudwestfunkorchester-baden-baden-karel-anerl-swr-classic-swr19055cd-cd.jpg)

Given that Ancerl never made a studio recording of Asrael this is of especial importance and very fine indeed by any standard.  Inspired playing by the Sudwestorcester Baden-Baden and better than decent sound.  A must-hear for anyone who admires the work - and its free!

https://benefits.naxos.com/Gift/Redeem/G.a34f3729d08148cc9aeb836ad3f53f1b
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on October 15, 2021, 05:19:41 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on October 15, 2021, 03:59:54 AM
When you sign up to the free Naxos Newsletter you get sent 2 free [FLAC or MP3] download links each month.  This month is a nailed-on gem;

(https://assets.onbuy.com/i11/product/63464e6e1aa946ee82e94608db39358c-m10151678/karel-anerl-ancerl-conducts-suk-asrael-karel-anerl-sudwestfunkorchester-baden-baden-karel-anerl-swr-classic-swr19055cd-cd.jpg)

Given that Ancerl never made a studio recording of Asrael this is of especial importance and very fine indeed by any standard.  Inspired playing by the Sudwestorcester Baden-Baden and better than decent sound.  A must-hear for anyone who admires the work - and its free!

https://benefits.naxos.com/Gift/Redeem/G.a34f3729d08148cc9aeb836ad3f53f1b
Cool!  Thanks for telling us about this!

PD
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1875-1935
Post by: Maestro267 on January 02, 2024, 11:42:29 AM
Bumping ahead of Suk's 150th birthday on Thursday, especially early for our first major composer anniversary year.

The thread title is incorrect, the birth year must be changed to 1874.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1874-1935
Post by: Brian on January 02, 2024, 11:51:43 AM
Quote from: Maestro267 on January 02, 2024, 11:42:29 AMThe thread title is incorrect, the birth year must be changed to 1874.
done  ;D
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1874-1935
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on January 02, 2024, 11:57:54 AM
Quote from: Maestro267 on January 02, 2024, 11:42:29 AMBumping ahead of Suk's 150th birthday on Thursday, especially early for our first major composer anniversary year.

The thread title is incorrect, the birth year must be changed to 1874.
Oh, neat!

And well done Brian!

PD
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1874-1935
Post by: Daverz on January 02, 2024, 01:50:53 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on October 15, 2021, 03:59:54 AMWhen you sign up to the free Naxos Newsletter you get sent 2 free [FLAC or MP3] download links each month.  This month is a nailed-on gem;

(https://assets.onbuy.com/i11/product/63464e6e1aa946ee82e94608db39358c-m10151678/karel-anerl-ancerl-conducts-suk-asrael-karel-anerl-sudwestfunkorchester-baden-baden-karel-anerl-swr-classic-swr19055cd-cd.jpg)

Given that Ancerl never made a studio recording of Asrael this is of especial importance and very fine indeed by any standard.  Inspired playing by the Sudwestorcester Baden-Baden and better than decent sound.  A must-hear for anyone who admires the work - and its free!

https://benefits.naxos.com/Gift/Redeem/G.a34f3729d08148cc9aeb836ad3f53f1b

Yes, a great recording of Asrael.  Just be warned that the big climax meant to sound like the beating of the Angel of Death's wings is let down by a badly caught bass drum.  The sound is otherwise very good.
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1874-1935
Post by: vandermolen on January 04, 2024, 02:59:10 AM
Now playing:
Happy 150th Birthday Josef Suk
Title: Re: Josef Suk 1874-1935
Post by: Brian on January 04, 2024, 10:17:53 AM
Just listened to the birthday boy's "Ripening" from the new Ancerl live box. Will put on the Serenade and maybe a piano recital this afternoon!