I am looking for the 1960 recordings of Tchaikovsky Symphonies done by Karajan, the complete set. I bought this box many years ago, and loved it to bits, but somehow it got lost. I have the last 3 but not the first 3. Anyone that can point me in the right direction, or wants to sell or even better trade?
As far as I know HVK recorded symphonies 1, 2 and 3 only once. You can pick them up in this cheap two-fer:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/416KYWC94WL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51LBXdKnY3L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Last three from the 60's, first three from the 70's.
Quote from: Grazioso on May 21, 2009, 10:01:45 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51LBXdKnY3L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Last three from the 60's, first three from the 70's.
All 6 Tchaikovsky Symphonies are in this set. I just checked my set, which is still in cellophane ...
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41hawrjnETL._SS500_.jpg)
Quote from: Coopmv on May 21, 2009, 05:55:45 PM
All 6 Tchaikovsky Symphonies are in this set. I just checked my set, which is still in cellophane ...
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41hawrjnETL._SS500_.jpg)
So these are the sixties recordings Coop?
Fwiw, I checked DG's site, and they don't list the recording dates. As far as I can see, PerfectWagnerite already hit the nail on the head, but I'm sure one of the board's hardcore HvK fans can confirm that.
Quote from: Harry on May 21, 2009, 11:21:37 PM
So these are the sixties recordings Coop?
I just opened up the box and checked the disc for Symphonies 1 & 2. It says 1979 on the edge of the disc. Without referring to my old Penguin Records Guide, I do not know whether any Tchaikovsky recordings were made by Karajan in 79 since that date may not necessarily be a recording date ...
As far as I know, Karajan recorded the first three symphonies only once, as part of a full cycle of the six symphonies for DG during the late 1970s. Before that, he had already recorded the last three twice with the Berlin Philharmonic (once for DG and once for EMI) during the 1960s. He'd record the final three symphonies again with the Vienna Philharmonic during the 1980s.
Quote from: nimrod79 on May 22, 2009, 04:56:15 AM
As far as I know, Karajan recorded the first three symphonies only once, as part of a full cycle of the six symphonies for DG during the late 1970s. Before that, he had already recorded the last three twice with the Berlin Philharmonic (once for DG and once for EMI) during the 1960s. He'd record the final three symphonies again with the Vienna Philharmonic during the 1980s.
No, he did a complete cycle in the sixties.
QuoteNo, he did a complete cycle in the sixties.
Interesting, I've never come across his 1960s version of 1-3. Are they available?
Quote from: nimrod79 on May 22, 2009, 05:02:18 AM
Interesting, I've never come across his 1960s version of 1-3. Are they available?
It is hard to imagine DG has not already re-issued this set but where is it? I have the 1-3 in a 3-LP set I bought in the late 70's or early 80's.
According to my (ancient) 1984 Penguin Record Guide - section that reviewed the Tchaikovsky Symphonies Nos. 1-3, Karajan had finally recorded those early symphonies a few years earlier. While Karajan had recorded Symphonies Nos. 5 & 6 a number of times by 1984, it appears he only recorded T1-T3 once (in the late 70's). His Tchaikovsky Symphonies Nos 5 & 6 with the VPO were the last of them and the only Tchaikovsky Symphonies that were recorded for CD directly. All previous recordings were originally made for LP's and later remastered to CD. It looks like the Karajan Symphony Edition does include these T1-T3 ...
My 3-LP set for T1-T3 shows 1979 as the year of recording.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51eJku2Fw9L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Anyone listen to this set? I remember someone asked my opinion about it a while ago, but I forgot who it was.
I'm no Tchaikovsky expert, but I thought this set was fine, although obviously there are many other recordings that are better. Still, I recommend it, especially since it's only $17 (and I happened to get it for only $10, although for reasons that are sad, but still...)
Quote from: Bahamut on May 22, 2009, 06:09:29 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51eJku2Fw9L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Anyone listen to this set? I remember someone asked my opinion about it a while ago, but I forgot who it was.
I'm no Tchaikovsky expert, but I thought this set was fine, although obviously there are many other recordings that are better. Still, I recommend it, especially since it's only $17 (and I happened to get it for only $10, although for reasons that are sad, but still...)
Is that a Vox box? The lettering on the box is not easy to read ...
Yep.
http://www.amazon.com/Tchaikovsky-Symphonies-Overtures-Pyotr-Ilyich/dp/B00005QKFQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1243044388&sr=8-1
The 1984 Penguin Record Guide gave a glowing review to Karajan's T1-T3.
Regarding Karajan, I can confirm that, to the extent of my knowledge, he has only recorded the first three Tchaikovsky symphonies once; and that was in the late 1970s. I can also recall explicit references to that fact by Gramophone contributors on a number of occasions, for what it's worth - including the relevant entry in the Good Record Guide.
Perhaps you had something else in mind? :)
Quote from: Renfield on May 22, 2009, 06:36:31 PM
Regarding Karajan, I can confirm that, to the extent of my knowledge, he has only recorded the first three Tchaikovsky symphonies once; and that was in the late 1970s. I can also recall explicit references to that fact by Gramophone contributors on a number of occasions, for what it's worth - including the relevant entry in the Good Record Guide.
Perhaps you had something else in mind? :)
The 3-LP set I have shows 1979 as the date of recording in the liner notes.
I have always wondered why Mravinsky had not recorded the first 3 symphonies!
Has anybody read a biography with the answer? Did he consider them inferior?
Quote from: Cato on May 22, 2009, 06:51:10 PM
I have always wondered why Mravinsky had not recorded the first 3 symphonies!
Has anybody read a biography with the answer? Did he consider them inferior?
I'd think it more the case that Mravinsky happened to record 5 and 6, then 4, 5 and 6 when asked (and I do know he adored the 5th), rather than deliberately avoid the first three, if I was to attempt an educated guess.
But seeing as there are no concert broadcasts of them either, it might well be that he considered other works more important, too. :)
Quote from: Bahamut on May 22, 2009, 06:09:29 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51eJku2Fw9L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Anyone listen to this set? I remember someone asked my opinion about it a while ago, but I forgot who it was.
I'm no Tchaikovsky expert, but I thought this set was fine, although obviously there are many other recordings that are better. Still, I recommend it, especially since it's only $17 (and I happened to get it for only $10, although for reasons that are sad, but still...)
I have that set, spread over 8 cds with other assorted Tchaikovsky orchestral works (the orchestral works are not performed by Abravanel/Utah SO). The performances are average to below average in my opinion. They are satisfactory if you don't make any comparisons to other sets or individual performances out there. The playing is good but not great, no real flair or personality. The sound is rather boxy and wears on you on repeated hearing. Even if it is only $17 i wouldn't buy it, considering for $10-$15 more you can get some much better sets.
Winter Dreams was one of the symphonies I spot checked in the big DG Karajan Symphonies box, and I did not care for the rather dull, artificial sound. The Bruckner 5 in that box, for example, is a much better recording.
For Tchaikovsky Symphonies 1-3, I recommend Ormandy, available from Archivmusic. I love the Winter Dreams in this set, and the Polish is also excellent.
Quote from: Cato on May 22, 2009, 06:51:10 PM
I have always wondered why Mravinsky had not recorded the first 3 symphonies!
Has anybody read a biography with the answer? Did he consider them inferior?
Most interesting question, and no, I haven't read a biography . . . .
Quote from: Daverz on May 26, 2009, 11:56:23 AM
For Tchaikovsky Symphonies 1-3, I recommend Ormandy, available from Archivmusic.
I haven't heard the Ormandy, but I can with a clean breast pound the table both for Muti, and Markevich.
There's a terrific new series of Tchaikovsky Symphonies with some overtures and shorter works on Mezzo TV with Gergiev and the Maryinsky Orchestra. These were recorded in the Salle Pleyel early in 2010 (it seems). I viewed Nos. 1, 2, 3 and 5 totally mesmerized and am looking forward to the rest. Some of his rubati are uncommon (may well be in the scores). He and his orchestra do everything with such energy and commitment, they near sound like different works.
I enjoyed the featured facial expression of the first violinist when they were about to wrap up the last movement of the 5th - a smile of joy and fulfilment.
Did anyone else get to hear these, maybe in public?
ZB
Quote from: zamyrabyrd on November 16, 2010, 09:28:40 AM
There's a terrific new series of Tchaikovsky Symphonies with some overtures and shorter works on Mezzo TV with Gergiev and the Maryinsky Orchestra. These were recorded in the Salle Pleyel early in 2010 (it seems). I viewed Nos. 1, 2, 3 and 5 totally mesmerized and am looking forward to the rest. Some of his rubati are uncommon (may well be in the scores). He and his orchestra do everything with such energy and commitment, they near sound like different works.
I enjoyed the featured facial expression of the first violinist when they were about to wrap up the last movement of the 5th - a smile of joy and fulfilment.
Did anyone else get to hear these, maybe in public?
ZB
I have them all in mp3, the fillers included. But I think I have only heard the second so far.
Never cared too much for Karajan's Tchaikovsky recordings, but the following are my favorite symphony sets:
(http://boxset.ru/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/jansons6.jpg)
(http://img.maniadb.com/images/album/252/252531_1_f.jpg)
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2006/Dec06/Tchaikovsy_Bernstein_SM5K87987.jpg)
(http://img.maniadb.com/images/album/293/293962_1_f.jpg)
Not pictured:
Tchaikvosky: Complete Symphonies, Svetlanov, USSR State Symphony Orchestra, Warner Classics --- not the best audio quality compared to Jansons or Abbado, but the performances are white hot. I think they're as intense and passionate as Bernstein's readings.
In terms of just Symphonies Nos. 4-6 there are many fine sets:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51RvD5R2pAL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/517eL0IqlSL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
(http://soundartiwakura.jp/bbs/data/cheditor/0708/symphonies_nr_4_5_mravinsky_copy.jpg)
My current favorites are the Svetlanov/Russian State SO cycle on Canyon. Recorded 'live' in Tokyo. On the downside, they are 1 symphony per disk with no filler. On the upside, they are worth it. :)
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Quote from: zamyrabyrd on November 16, 2010, 09:28:40 AM
There's a terrific new series of Tchaikovsky Symphonies with some overtures and shorter works on Mezzo TV with Gergiev and the Maryinsky Orchestra. These were recorded in the Salle Pleyel early in 2010 (it seems). I viewed Nos. 1, 2, 3 and 5 totally mesmerized and am looking forward to the rest. Some of his rubati are uncommon (may well be in the scores). He and his orchestra do everything with such energy and commitment, they near sound like different works.
I enjoyed the featured facial expression of the first violinist when they were about to wrap up the last movement of the 5th - a smile of joy and fulfilment.
Did anyone else get to hear these, maybe in public?
ZB
Oi! Yes, but I didn't really enjoy them that much. You can see my reaction to #5 here: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,9.msg464552.html#msg464552 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,9.msg464552.html#msg464552). I expected much more. But I am glad you enjoyed them anyway.
There are really lots of good sets out there. MI posted a bunch of them, though others include Dorati, Karajan, Litton, Pletnev, and Haitink (if memory serves, he did do one of those). Maazel did a decent 1-3 and Ashkenazy did a good 4-6 (both Decca Doubles, or were anyway). The recent Gatti box is a great bargain for 4-6 as well. Highly recommend that if the price is still great - superb performances in good sound. Temirkanov did a set that doesn't seem to get much love. I haven't heard that one. Rozhdestvensky did 4-6, though they are all issued separately. Pappano did 4-6 ok. Anyway, just a few to consider!
Quote from: Daverz on May 26, 2009, 11:56:23 AM
Winter Dreams was one of the symphonies I spot checked in the big DG Karajan Symphonies box, and I did not care for the rather dull, artificial sound. The Bruckner 5 in that box, for example, is a much better recording.
The bump gives me an opportunity to revise my opinion of the Karajan 70s recordings. The sound can't really be called natural, but I don't find it too objectionable now, and the performances are enjoyable.
Karajan's Tchaikovsky is nicely done, the 60's recordings are my preference.
But for me the essential complete sets are Markevitch/LSO and Dorati (Mercury Living Presence). Mavrinski is spectacular in 4-6.
This is one of the 5 complete symphonies sets I have. I also have the Complete Symphonies by Maazel on open-reel tapes. BTW, this Dorati set may be OOP ...
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51kgK2tyJVL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 16, 2010, 10:02:18 AM
My current favorites are the Svetlanov/Russian State SO cycle on Canyon. Recorded 'live' in Tokyo. On the downside, they are 1 symphony per disk with no filler. On the upside, they are worth it. :)
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(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/Gurn_Blanston/TchaikovskySvetlanovSymph1cover.jpg)(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/Gurn_Blanston/TchaikovskySvetlanovSymph2cover.jpg)(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/Gurn_Blanston/TchaikovskySvetlanovSymph3cover.jpg)(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/Gurn_Blanston/TchaikovskySvetlanovSymph4cover.jpg)(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/Gurn_Blanston/TchaikovskySvetlanovSymph5cover.jpg)(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/Gurn_Blanston/TchaikovskySvetlanovSymph6cover.jpg)
This set here is the one I was mentioning earlier. Since I am not overrun with other sets (I have the Temirkanov and the Karajan) I don't have a great basis for comparison with other cycles. But this one is quite satisfactory and commendable. :)
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----------------
Now playing:
King (Oboe) \ Soroka (Violin) \ Stern (Viola) \ Kam (Viola0 \ Khoma (Cello) - Krommer Quintet #2 in Eb for Oboe & Strings 1st mvmt - Allegro moderato
6 cds and yet no Manfred? :'(
Quote from: DavidW on November 16, 2010, 06:10:30 PM
6 cds and yet no Manfred? :'(
Actually, Sveltanov did record a
Manfred Symphony, but this recording has been heavily criticized due to that it has been severely cut in playing time.
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 16, 2010, 06:14:32 PM
Actually, Sveltanov did record a Manfred Symphony, but this recording has been heavily criticized due to that it has been severely cut in playing time.
Glad I never ran across it then! :)
No, I have Philharmonia / Muti for the Manfred. It is a good recording to MY ears, although I have nothing to compare it to... :)
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----------------
Now playing:
The Island Quartet - Krommer Op 46 Quartet #1 in Bb for Bassoon & Strings 4th mvmt - Rondo
Hmmm... well that explains that then! :D
MI, does Jansons' box contain the Manfred?
Quote from: DavidW on November 16, 2010, 06:27:28 PM
Hmmm... well that explains that then! :D
MI, does Jansons' box contain the Manfred?
Yes, it does and it's a wonderful performance.
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 16, 2010, 06:51:01 PM
Yes, it does and it's a wonderful performance.
I think I need to add that box set to my to buy list.
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 16, 2010, 06:25:04 PM
Glad I never ran across it then! :)
No, I have Philharmonia / Muti for the Manfred. It is a good recording to MY ears, although I have nothing to compare it to... :)
8)
Yes, the Muti is quite good indeed. I own several
Manfred Symphony recordings: Muti, Pletnev, Jansons, Masur, Tilson Thomas, Petrenko, Rostropovich, Chailly, and Jurowski.
My only complete set:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51eJku2Fw9L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Pyotr Ilyich not being my favorite composer, I'm quite content with this, although I have various individual recordings of most of the symphonies. Includes the Manfred. It sounds appropriately soft and sweet when needed, but not too extreme, which I would hate. The only symphony on which it sounds definitely outclassed is the Fourth, and that's because my preference there is for Solti's recording, which has an Allegro con fouco] that definitely has some fouco. In the other works, it needs no apologizing to anyone.
Quote from: ukrneal on November 16, 2010, 10:48:59 AM
Oi! Yes, but I didn't really enjoy them that much. You can see my reaction to #5 here: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,9.msg464552.html#msg464552 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,9.msg464552.html#msg464552). I expected much more. But I am glad you enjoyed them anyway.
There are really lots of good sets out there. MI posted a bunch of them, though others include Dorati, Karajan, Litton, Pletnev, and Haitink (if memory serves, he did do one of those). Maazel did a decent 1-3 and Ashkenazy did a good 4-6 (both Decca Doubles, or were anyway). The recent Gatti box is a great bargain for 4-6 as well. Highly recommend that if the price is still great - superb performances in good sound. Temirkanov did a set that doesn't seem to get much love. I haven't heard that one. Rozhdestvensky did 4-6, though they are all issued separately. Pappano did 4-6 ok. Anyway, just a few to consider!
Mezzo is my daily lifeline to classical music, so I am happy to find someone else who tuned in also. I don't remember the clarinet being flat in the beginning of No. 5 but I can check when it comes back again.
Many rubatos that we are not used to hearing in Tchaikovsky's music are actually written in the scores. What impressed me was the sense of overall line, with everything fitting in from beginning to end with no let up in intensity. If this is done in a convincing manner, one can agree to disagree.
I thought it was a little odd though, with all the care that was spent in editing, Gergiev was about the only one not clean shaven, wearing a Nehru jacket a bit lopsided while everyone else wore standard black jackets and the women were well fitted out and made up. There was even a spot of a sparking diamond ring on the bow hand of a woman cellist.
ZB
Quote from: zamyrabyrd on November 16, 2010, 10:42:56 PM
Mezzo is my daily lifeline to classical music, so I am happy to find someone else who tuned in also. I don't remember the clarinet being flat in the beginning of No. 5 but I can check when it comes back again.
Many rubatos that we are not used to hearing in Tchaikovsky's music are actually written in the scores. What impressed me was the sense of overall line, with everything fitting in from beginning to end with no let up in intensity. If this is done in a convincing manner, one can agree to disagree.
I thought it was a little odd though, with all the care that was spent in editing, Gergiev was about the only one not clean shaven, wearing a Nehru jacket a bit lopsided while everyone else wore standard black jackets and the women were well fitted out and made up. There was even a spot of a sparking diamond ring on the bow hand of a woman cellist.
ZB
Oh, we love that channel. We check it regularly.
Tempi in the piece (and rubato) are always an issue (meaning the conductor/orchestra must make a number of decisions on this point), particularly in the last movement. I thought he did a bit better there in the last two movements.
Hah! He always has the 5 o'clock shadow/closely cut beard look. I think it's an image thing. I can't even remember seeing him clean shaven anymore! Maybe I never did - don't remember.
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 16, 2010, 07:03:11 PM
Yes, the Muti is quite good indeed. I own several Manfred Symphony recordings: Muti, Pletnev, Jansons, Masur, Tilson Thomas, Petrenko, Rostropovich, Chailly, and Jurowski.
Crikey! :o
Well, I want to get a version by a Russian orchestra/conductor, which I try to do with all my Russian music. It may not have any real value-added, I don't know for sure, but when the opportunity arises I'll take it every time. :) David appears to favor Pletnev, and I see you have it listed. It would be a good choice?
8)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 17, 2010, 04:42:42 AM
Crikey! :o
Well, I want to get a version by a Russian orchestra/conductor, which I try to do with all my Russian music. It may not have any real value-added, I don't know for sure, but when the opportunity arises I'll take it every time. :) David appears to favor Pletnev, and I see you have it listed. It would be a good choice?
8)
I know your question was directed elsewhere, but this is a version I enjoy - a lot. But not everyone does. There seems to be a wide opinion of views on this - from professional reviewers to avid listeners. For some this is a reason to try it - for others a reason to avoid. Regardless, the sound is excellent, as is the playing. I'll give you these posts from GMG history - they may help: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1097.msg27413.html#msg27413 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1097.msg27413.html#msg27413).
I know you wanted Russians and all, but Muti is really good with Tchaikovsky, and no less so here. I've not heard Patrenko (who received raves and is on Naxos) or Jurowski. Patrenko can be had for $7 on Amazon MP, which seems like a risk worth taking to me (and at this price, actually considering myself).
I have the Muti set, and it is honestly one of the most listened to box sets in my collection. I still haven't warmed up to the Manfred, yet. Also, the Polish is not yet on my extensive repeat list, compared to everything else of Tchaikovsky's.
Quote from: ukrneal on November 17, 2010, 06:30:15 AM
I know your question was directed elsewhere, but this is a version I enjoy - a lot. But not everyone does. There seems to be a wide opinion of views on this - from professional reviewers to avid listeners. For some this is a reason to try it - for others a reason to avoid. Regardless, the sound is excellent, as is the playing. I'll give you these posts from GMG history - they may help: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1097.msg27413.html#msg27413 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1097.msg27413.html#msg27413).
I know you wanted Russians and all, but Muti is really good with Tchaikovsky, and no less so here. I've not heard Patrenko (who received raves and is on Naxos) or Jurowski. Patrenko can be had for $7 on Amazon MP, which seems like a risk worth taking to me (and at this price, actually considering myself).
Thanks for the input, amigo. Interesting to read those comments from my old friend Lilas Pastia, and your own feedback too. As I see it stacking up, maybe I just keep what I have for now and see what else comes along down the road. I don't feel any compelling need to make a change, after all. :)
8)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 17, 2010, 04:42:42 AM
Well, I want to get a version by a Russian orchestra/conductor
Konstantin Symeonov with USSR State TV & Radio Grand Symphony Orchestra on Vista Vera.
Quote from: zamyrabyrd on November 16, 2010, 10:42:56 PM
Mezzo is my daily lifeline to classical music, so I am happy to find someone else who tuned in also. I don't remember the clarinet being flat in the beginning of No. 5 but I can check when it comes back again.
Many rubatos that we are not used to hearing in Tchaikovsky's music are actually written in the scores. What impressed me was the sense of overall line, with everything fitting in from beginning to end with no let up in intensity. If this is done in a convincing manner, one can agree to disagree.
I thought it was a little odd though, with all the care that was spent in editing, Gergiev was about the only one not clean shaven, wearing a Nehru jacket a bit lopsided while everyone else wore standard black jackets and the women were well fitted out and made up. There was even a spot of a sparking diamond ring on the bow hand of a woman cellist.
ZB
I've seen 3rd and 6th on Medici TV and 6th has been possibly the best I've heard/seen in years, liberal rubato but sounded completely organic and utterly convincing to me. If it ever comes out on DVD I'll buy it.
Quote from: ukrneal on November 17, 2010, 06:30:15 AM
I know you wanted Russians and all, but Muti is really good with Tchaikovsky, and no less so here. I've not heard Patrenko (who received raves and is on Naxos) or Jurowski. Patrenko can be had for $7 on Amazon MP, which seems like a risk worth taking to me (and at this price, actually considering myself).
I'm going to thumbs down that naxos recording, many dull moments. And Muti is in general a bland conductor, I would be interested in hearing Maazel though, didn't know he did the Manfred, he is an awesome conductor! :)
Quote from: Drasko on November 17, 2010, 06:58:46 AM
Konstantin Symeonov with USSR State TV & Radio Grand Symphony Orchestra on Vista Vera.
Excellent, thanks. I hate reinventing the wheel when someone else has already done that. :)
edit: That would be this one;
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/Gurn_Blanston/41o2BlK1jRML.jpg)
which is out of stock right now, but maybe not forever. :)
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Quote from: DavidW on November 17, 2010, 07:10:34 AM
. . . And Muti is in general a bland conductor . . . .
Not at all in this Tchaikovsky box, I am pleased to report! He draws from the orchestra a Gergievly fire, without the . . . eccentricities.
Quote from: DavidW on November 17, 2010, 07:10:34 AM
I'm going to thumbs down that naxos recording, many dull moments. And Muti is in general a bland conductor, I would be interested in hearing Maazel though, didn't know he did the Manfred, he is an awesome conductor! :)
Actually, I find Maazel to be incredibly bland and Muti to a much better conductor. Have you heard Muti's recording of Respighi's
Roman Trilogy on EMI? This specific recording is one of the most fearsome performances of these works I've heard.
Maazel, in my opinion, generally seems like he just goes "through the motions" and doesn't put any thought into the performances. He's just a conductor I avoid as much as I can.
Quote from: Drasko on November 17, 2010, 06:58:46 AM
I've seen 3rd and 6th on Medici TV and 6th has been possibly the best I've heard/seen in years, liberal rubato but sounded completely organic and utterly convincing to me. If it ever comes out on DVD I'll buy it.
The 6th, ah, the
6th!!!! I tuned in a little late but got the last three movements. The cellos were like
velvet in the Waltz... the brass in the 3rd movement, oh my, to usher in the horsemen of the apocalypse!!! At the end the higher instruments having dropped out, was the final denouement, then
silence, with Gergiev's hand slowly closing, this time not only leading the orchestra but the audience as well. Yes, I'd like to buy the DVD if and when it comes out.
ZB
Quote from:
Cato on May 22, 2009, 06:51:10 PM
QuoteI have always wondered why Mravinsky had not recorded the first 3 symphonies!
Has anybody read a biography with the answer? Did he consider them inferior?
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 16, 2010, 09:20:53 AM
Most interesting question, and no, I haven't read a biography . . . .
I have again quickly checked throughout the Internet and have no answer.
On
Manfred: RCA used to offer a slam-dunk version (with deletions, unfortunately (or maybe not so unfortunately $:) ) , mainly in the last movement, to fit onto a 33 1/3 LP) with
Toscanini conducting his NBC Orchestra.
I recall the performance dated from the early 1950's.
Quote from: Cato on May 22, 2009, 06:51:10 PM
I have always wondered why Mravinsky had not recorded the first 3 symphonies!
No idea really, but maybe this post could shed some small amount of light on the matter:
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,11288.msg280443.html#msg280443 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,11288.msg280443.html#msg280443)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 17, 2010, 07:10:56 AM
Excellent, thanks. I hate reinventing the wheel when someone else has already done that. :)
edit: That would be this one;
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/Gurn_Blanston/41o2BlK1jRML.jpg)
which is out of stock right now, but maybe not forever. :)
8)
Yes, that would be the one, but Vista Vera is very poor when it comes to distribution, so you might wait forever if you're waiting for amazon. If you'd like to get it any time before my advice is to check Russian sellers on ebay or Ruslania webstore.
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 17, 2010, 08:11:04 AM
Have you heard Muti's recording of Respighi's Roman Trilogy on EMI? This specific recording is one of the most fearsome performances of these works I've heard.
I'll have to check it out, I'm due a sonic upgrade on those anyway, I just have a poorly mastered recording from Ormady.
QuoteMaazel, in my opinion, generally seems like he just goes "through the motions" and doesn't put any thought into the performances. He's just a conductor I avoid as much as I can.
Oh not even the Bruckner 8th?
Quote from: Cato on November 17, 2010, 10:00:12 AM
Quote from: Cato on May 22, 2009, 06:51:10 PM
On Manfred: RCA used to offer a slam-dunk version (with deletions, unfortunately (or maybe not so unfortunately) , mainly in the last movement, to fit onto a 33 1/3 LP) with Toscanini conducting his NBC Orchestra.
I recall the performance dated from the early 1950's.
The
Manfred Symphony seems to be either loved or hated. Leonard Bernstein supposedly didn't record it because he couldn't stand it. I just thought that Toscanini would be great with this, so looked it up. "Music and Arts" actually made the 1953 live recording available on CD. If you subscribe to Naxos online, you can hear it direct.
http://www.musicandarts.com/HistoricalClassical.html#CD-4658
Apparently, Tchaikovsky had a running correspondence with Balakirev who was urging him to put Byron's story of Manfred to music that Berlioz refused. He didn't like the idea at first but after a couple years, decided to do it, enjoying the work of composition at first but remained ambivalent about the results, even considering to destroy the last movements. Without even a slight knowledge of the program, the piece doesn't make much sense.
Musically, I suppose, it was not considered a proper symphony as it didn't much subscribe to sonata form. So it lies somewhere in the middle of his symphonies and tone poems.
As expected, Toscanini delivers the lightning bolt at the end of the first movement. Previn with the London Phil (1997) does this well and the instruments are very clear but without that gripping intensity. Svetlanov is also very good (1985). The last two are on youtube.
ZB
For my money I would vote firstly for Herbert von Karajan's interpretations, and secondly Ricardo Muti on EMI, wonderful renditions, that made me sit upright every time I played them. Karajan is more into the finer details of it all, and his interpretations flow more suavely. I have Mariss Janson on Chandos too, but those are proverbial duds for me, this guy is to relaxed and conservative. And I have a soft spot for the interpretations by Gennadi Rozhdestvensky with the London SO, idiomatic, and truly felt Tchaikovsky. This composer is far more complicated to perform as some conductors think.
Quote from: DavidW on November 17, 2010, 04:45:24 PM
I'll have to check it out, I'm due a sonic upgrade on those anyway, I just have a poorly mastered recording from Ormady.
Oh not even the Bruckner 8th?
Okay, maybe I was a little harsh in regards to Maazel. I think he did an admirable job with Respighi's
Roman Trilogy and he also turned in a great
Pictures At An Exhibition. It seems he does better with works that are more showy than profound. He also turned in a great Prokofiev
Romeo & Juliet that I still play from time to time, but I think with the more "heavy" works from composers like Bruckner or Mahler or Sibelius he fails to convince me.
Quote from: kishnevi on November 16, 2010, 08:24:14 PM
My only complete set:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51eJku2Fw9L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Pyotr Ilyich not being my favorite composer, I'm quite content with this, although I have various individual recordings of most of the symphonies. Includes the Manfred. It sounds appropriately soft and sweet when needed, but not too extreme, which I would hate. The only symphony on which it sounds definitely outclassed is the Fourth, and that's because my preference there is for Solti's recording, which has an Allegro con fouco] that definitely has some fouco. In the other works, it needs no apologizing to anyone.
Where did you get that? I got that set from Borders, and you probably don't live that far from me, so it's probably one that finds its way into CD stores over here for some reason.
Quote from: Greg on November 23, 2010, 02:33:08 PM
Where did you get that? I got that set from Borders, and you probably don't live that far from me, so it's probably one that finds its way into CD stores over here for some reason.
Borders it was. The now defunct Borders that was across the street from me. It seems the only places to buy CDs now in Broward County and northern Dade are three Barnes and Nobles (with at least three others in the area that don't carry music and DVDs.
Quote from: kishnevi on November 23, 2010, 07:58:05 PM
Borders it was. The now defunct Borders that was across the street from me. It seems the only places to buy CDs now in Broward County and northern Dade are three Barnes and Nobles (with at least three others in the area that don't carry music and DVDs.
That's funny, because I had gotten that set from the Borders going out of business in Altamonte Springs (Orange County).
It seems like certain areas have certain CDs... the library is the same way. For example, the Mahler 10th CD with Wigglesworth conducting is a rare one, but both the Orange County and Lake County library have it. There was another example, too, but I can't remember it.
Thinking of buying this set from Rozhdestvensky on Melodiya. Thoughts anyone?
(http://media.mdt.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/M/E/MELCD1001754_1.jpg)
I have to mention a set I bought on Everest LP in the '70s, thinking it would be an inexpensive addition. It wasn't just inexpensive--it was downright cheap! The recorded sound was awful and mostly the performances, from various orchestras and conductors, were no better. When Hans Swarowski and the Vienna Symphony (not Philharmonic) are the best performances in the set, or even almost so, you're reaching pretty low! (Actually, that's not fair to Maestro Swarowski, a former conducting professor at the Vienna Conservatory; he taught Zubin Mehta and Claudio Abbado, among others. But his Tchaikovsky is much too heavy-sounding and inflexible for my tastes.) The only exception was Manfred with Eugene Goossens leading the London Symphony, and that is only for the fiery playing and interpretation; the sound was just as awful as the rest of the set and Manfred was cut nearly to ribbons (except for the Waterfall movement, played complete, flawlessly and beautifully).
Some recordings deserve to be forgotten. :P
Quote from: Peregrine on October 25, 2013, 09:52:57 AM
Thinking of buying this set from Rozhdestvensky on Melodiya. Thoughts anyone?
(http://media.mdt.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/M/E/MELCD1001754_1.jpg)
Would love to know about these performances, too. I imagine they're quite good considering that Rozhdestvensky is a such master in Russian music.
A fantastic new set for the SACD crowd and overall is the Kitajenko Oehms set that has now been completed. I have virtually everything mentioned in this thread and more and Kitajenko tops my list.
Quote from: Daverz on May 26, 2009, 11:56:23 AM
For Tchaikovsky Symphonies 1-3, I recommend Ormandy, available from Archivmusic. I love the Winter Dreams in this set, and the Polish is also excellent.
Figured I'd mention that Ormandy's complete Tchaikovsky recordings, including numbered symphonies, Manfred, the reconstructed "7th," along with concerti and ballet music is being released by Sony in a bargain box.
[asin]B00EC0VVZ2[/asin]
I am curious about this set, apparently released not long after the last post in this thread:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81L%2B9gjVIdL._SL1417_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81RlvA3w4oL._SL1500_.jpg)
Tchaikovsky: EIGHT SYMPHONIES etc [Rozhdestvensky et al] (Musical Concepts, 6cd)
Rozh conducts only 2-6 and MANFRED, and these are his 1989 recordings with the Large Symphony Orchestra of the Ministry of Culture of the Russian Federation.
(Not his 1972 symphonies w/Moscow Radio Symphony [the Melodiya set, pictured just above?], nor his 4-6 with LSO from 1987, these latter included in the big Brilliant EDITION set or in their little stand-alone Tchaikovsky symphonies set.)
I rely on John Fowler's Amazon review of the MC set for these dates.
I'd be curious how these Rozh performances rate/compare to his other recordings. I did not see much discussion of his symphonies recordings in this thread [Harry praised the ones with LSO] though I remember at least one positive reference to his MANFRED recordings.
Browsing through Music-Web recently, I found this:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2020/Jun/Tchaikovsky_Sladkovsky.htm
A glowing and recommended recording, according to the reviewer. Based on his review, I bought a couple to see what I might be missing. Well, from the original review, quite a bit. I love Manfred and while there are a number of conductors who make cuts, according to http://en.tchaikovsky-research.net/pages/Manfred:_Recordings, the list is becoming fewer. I personally prefer the full version, but I realize there might be those who don't. I just wish the reviewer had made that clear when reviewing this new version. I did make note of the differences (the original timing from the reviewer was 56 minutes 56 seconds) and told Len at Music-web. The reviewer made the revisions and noted the version reviewed, but I really wish reviewers would make that clear when making their qualitative assessments. How do you feel about these things? I'm glad Music-web made the correction, but then again when a reviewer compares Manfred versions with each other, don't you think it's ethical to compare apples with apples? I just feel a version that's cut shouldn't be mixed in with those that are complete, especially when such a clear difference in Manfred is made.
Their Shostakovich cycle is good, too. Haven't heard their Tchaikovsky.
Also a fan of some of Sladkovsky's previous recordings - way better orchestra than the name suggests. I was actually early on their bandwagon at MusicWeb in 2016 (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2016/Aug/Rachmaninov_Rabotkina_CAG114.htm).
As far as noting editions and cuts - if you as a writer are well-listened enough to know that there are different editions, or cuts made, you should absolutely say that. And if you say "don't get this recording, get that one instead," you should note the editions used by both. But in many cases I think comparing apples to oranges makes some sense - like say the brass section in different Bruckner albums.
Really? Absolutely NO reason to bring my thread into this one. My thread wasn't solely about Tchaikovsky symphonies but pointing out an issue specifically about cutting versions and passing them off as complete. Good grief. Do you even READ the content of a thread and posting? Over moderation. Get off your moderation horse, moderators. Quit censoring threads and don't put an issue that you feel fits within a little box into your preconceived notions.
I must say I had found your post ill-fitting to this thread. Now I understand. What title had you given it ?
https://www.amazon.com/Tchaikovsky-Federation-Rozhdestvensky-Konstantin-Orchestra/dp/B00GSXU7T2
Thoughts on this? It's 99 cents on Amazon for the whole set on mp3.
Quote from: vers la flamme on June 24, 2020, 02:05:33 AM
https://www.amazon.com/Tchaikovsky-Federation-Rozhdestvensky-Konstantin-Orchestra/dp/B00GSXU7T2
Thoughts on this? It's 99 cents on Amazon for the whole set on mp3.
Even if it's really terrible (which is difficult to imagine, given the personnel), it's 99 cents (unless you really need CD quality, in which case it's $902). You'd be doing us a favour if you were to go for it and post a review.
Quote from: DaveF on June 24, 2020, 02:39:20 AM
Even if it's really terrible (which is difficult to imagine, given the personnel), it's 99 cents (unless you really need CD quality, in which case it's $902). You'd be doing us a favour if you were to go for it and post a review.
There's a version of this set as a download available in the UK for just £1. It is very good indeed. Sonically a bit limited/crude - but only in the way that old Melodiya sourced are. Interpretatively, they are very fine indeed and I love the rasp and bite of the Soviet brass.....
https://classicselectworlddigital.com/collections/musical-concepts-mc-library/products/tchaikovsky-the-eight-symphonies-rozhdestvensky-large-symphony-orchestra-of-the-russian-federation
If I could only buy 1 complete Tchaikovsky set it would be Rostropovitch/LPO on Warner - great great set