Created in order to not muddy the "complete" thread:
I keep wanting to ask about those performers that came fairly close (let us say more than half) that recorded these works, and was wondering if some of our LvB Sonata experts (and I mean this sincerely), might post what portion of the cycle some their favorite performers completed. For example, can anyone tell me how close Serkin came? Did he complete the cycle?
I have two favourite incomplete cycles.
One by Solomon Cutner, who suffered a stroke before his cycle was finished. He survived BTW and lived a long life - he died in 1988, 85 years old - but with paralisis in his right arm his career as a pianist was over. One of my favourite pianists ever.
He recorded: nos. 1, 3, 7, 8, , 13, 18, 21-23, 26-32. All availble on Testament.
Second is Paul Komen's HIP cycle on Globe. Though, I still hope he will finish it some day (soon!!! :o)...
He has recorded sofar: 8-11, 16-18, 21-27, 30-32. Ther is also a disc with the Diabelli variations and Bagatelles op. 126 (Ars Musici)
Q
Incomplete "cycles," some intended to be cycles, some never intended to be so, are somewhat maddening. Why couldn't the artists have finished? In some cases, of course, it was death – Gieseking, Gilels, Hungerford, they never got to. Solomon had a stroke. Unfortunate indeed.
As to incomplete sets, I've listed below the ones I know about. I've excluded on-going cycles. (I'm not an expert on the LvB sonata discography, of course, and I'd love to find someone who is. I've yet to come across such a person online or in the flesh.)
To the specific question about Rudolf Serkin, I believe he recorded 17 sonatas, some multiple times, but pirate or other live recordings may take that total higher.
Solomon recorded 17.
Gieseking recorded 31 sonatas. He never recorded Op 54. Unfortunately, EMI hasn't reissued all of their recordings of Gieseking's sonatas, and the Tahra live set was out of print last I checked. Both are needed to get to 31. (Edit: He may have recorded the entire cycle for Saarbrucken Radio, but only 27 survive on tape.)
Wilhelm Kempff recorded 25 sonatas in the 20s and 30s. Most are unavailable.
Gilels recorded 27 sonatas.
Hungerford recorded 22 sonatas I believe, with most (but not all!) available on Vanguard.
Richter performed and recorded I don't know how many. I believe Holden has worked on building as close to a complete cycle as possible. I'm not sure if Richter made through more than 16. Holden?
Louis Lortie was recording a complete cycle for Chandos, but I think the project was stopped shy of completion. I believe he recorded 25.
Kazune Shimizu reportedly recorded the entire cycle in the mid-90s for Sony, but I've only seen eight discs falling between four and six sonatas shy of the complete set if memory serves. Alas, I didn't buy them when they were available, and now no Japanese outlet carries the recordings, let alone any outlets outside Japan. (It would have been around $250 for an incomplete cycle, which even I wouldn't pay at the time.)
Of the recordings I've heard from the above, Gilels, Hungerford, and Serkin all tickle my fancy. Gieseking (on Tahra) is a bit uneven, but some of the performances are superb. His Op 106 is the fastest I've ever heard, if a bit uncontrolled. The still relatively few Richter recordings I've heard (about a half-dozen) are generally exceptionally good. From the early Kempff recordings I've heard only Op 13, and it's pretty good.
Quote from: Todd on May 30, 2009, 03:56:52 PM
Incomplete "cycles," some intended to be cycles, some never intended to be so, are somewhat maddening. Why couldn't the artists have finished? In some cases, of course, it was death – Gieseking, Gilels, Hungerford, they never got to. Solomon had a stroke. Unfortunate indeed.
Aside from the death of the artist, I suppose there are some sonatas that a particular artist simply is not interested in recording. That's a good thing. I'm not keen on keyboardists recording an entire cycle just to be able to say they did it.
Quote from: Bulldog on May 30, 2009, 04:15:05 PMAside from the death of the artist, I suppose there are some sonatas that a particular artist simply is not interested in recording. That's a good thing.
Fair enough. The reason I always like complete sets of LvB sonatas, as well as other composers' complete sets of piano works (Debussy, Ravel, Schubert, Mozart), is because I like to hear how an artist handles all of the works. If the artist doesn't want to record for a given reason, that makes sense. Of course, I've experienced recordigns where the artist wanted to record a specific work and the result indicated that may not have been the best idea.
Quote from: Bogey on May 30, 2009, 02:44:23 PM
Created in order to not muddy the "complete" thread:
I keep wanting to ask about those performers that came fairly close (let us say more than half) that recorded these works, and was wondering if some of our LvB Sonata experts (and I mean this sincerely), might post what portion of the cycle some their favorite performers completed. For example, can anyone tell me how close Serkin came? Did he complete the cycle?
He did not. He recorded 17 of the 32 (http://fischer.hosting.paran.com/music/music.htm)
Thanks for the effort so far. Exactly what I was looking for. Not only to fill in missing recordings, but rather just to know.
Quote from: Todd on May 30, 2009, 03:56:52 PM
Wilhelm Kempff recorded 25 sonatas in the 20s and 30s. Most are unavailable.
6 of them can be downloaded here. (http://nealshistoricalcorner.blogspot.com/search/label/Kempff)
Quote from: Todd on May 30, 2009, 03:56:52 PM
Richter performed and recorded I don't know how many. I believe Holden has worked on building as close to a complete cycle as possible. I'm not sure if Richter made through more than 16. Holden?
Richter recorded 22 of the 32 (just like Hungerford). Missing are #s 2, 5, 13, 14, 15, 16, 21, 24, 25 and 26.
For me, the incomplete cycles are frustrating and especially in the case of Solomon, Gilels and Hungerford. Each of them could have come close to being that definitive cycle of the works and all were cut down in their prime. Serkin deliberately (like Richter) chose only to record those sonatas he felt he could do justice to. I'd really like to hear his early 50s recordings of these having sampled a superb Waldstein from that era.
The two pianists I would like to see complete a cycle are Moravec (unlikely at his age) and Grigori Sokolov whose Beethoven is really growing on me. He's still young enough to do it and each year he adds one or two more two his repertoire.
Quote from: Holden on May 31, 2009, 11:46:58 PM
For me, the incomplete cycles are frustrating and especially in the case of Solomon, Gilels and Hungerford. Each of them could have come close to being that definitive cycle of the works and all were cut down in their prime.
Agree completely about Solomon and Hungerford, as you and I have discussed in the past. Gilels is a bit more problematic, since IMO the best versions of the Beethoven he did are live and not always his DGG studio series. But yes, I'd love to have heard the full set by all these artists.
Quote from: Holden on May 31, 2009, 11:46:58 PM
Serkin deliberately (like Richter) chose only to record those sonatas he felt he could do justice to.
Well, frankly, THESE are the guys who frustrate me. Especially Richter.
Quote from: Holden on May 31, 2009, 11:46:58 PM
The two pianists I would like to see complete a cycle are Moravec (unlikely at his age) and Grigori Sokolov whose Beethoven is really growing on me. He's still young enough to do it and each year he adds one or two more two his repertoire.
Complete accord once more. In fact, with regard to Moravec, I'm sad that he didn't record about five or six times the repertoire that he did. And let's not get too complacent about Sokolov, either. He's as old as I am...and sometimes that seems pretty darn old.
;D
Dirk
Bruce Hungerford and Vanguard intended for him to record the complete cycle, but he was killed in a tragic auto accident by a drunk driver on 26 January 1977 before he completed the cycle. He was 54 years old. The performances he did record, however, all of which are currently available, are top notch and highly recommended.
Incomplete cycles also include "Kempff 0", the one he recorded on shellac for Polydor. WWII cut that one short with op.2/3; op.22; op.27/1; op.28; op.31 #2; and op.101 missing.
Warning to pianists: don't record the Beethoven sonatas for EMI. As detailed above, they worked with Solomon (Cutner), and he had a stroke.
Then they tried it with Gieseking (extant but for tapes of 4, 5, 7, 20, 22 which are lost and no.29 which he never recorded) and then he died.
I'm just glad that Kovacevic survived.
Legge--still for Columbia--also worked on a cycle with Arrau, but after 11 sonatas that project was dropped in 1960. (At least not due to the death of the artist.)
Technically incomplete, but patched with earlier recordings, are Backhaus' second, stereo, set... and Arrau's second, digital, set. !4 & 29 are missing from the latter, just 29 from the former.
Gould, Gilels have been mentioned... although Gould probably never wanted to record all sonatas, anyway... and neither did Serkin. (One sonata in particular he would not touch because he could not match Beethoven's indicated fingering (no one can, because the keys on a modern keyboard are wider than on the Broadwoods and Erards of LvB's time).
Pollini will presumably have his cycle finished... unless he, too, wants to join the league of greats who have been cut short just a few sonatas before the 'goal'. He'd be in good company, at least.
Quote from: jlaurson on June 03, 2009, 03:33:40 AM
... and neither did Serkin. (One sonata in particular he would not touch because he could not match Beethoven's indicated fingering (no one can, because the keys on a modern keyboard are wider than on the Broadwoods and Erards of LvB's time).
Which sonata is that?
Quote from: jlaurson on June 03, 2009, 03:33:40 AM
Incomplete cycles also include "Kempff 0", the one he recorded on shellac for Polydor. WWII cut that one short with . .. op.27/1; ....missing.
Strange, as far as I own a pre-war recording by Kempff of the op. 27/1.
Always supposed it was part of the Polydor set.
Maybe I have to dig it out to find out.
Quote from: premont on June 03, 2009, 07:23:06 AM
Strange, as far as I own a pre-war recording by Kempff of the op. 27/1.
Always supposed it was part of the Polydor set.
Maybe I have to dig it out to find out.
I'm not betting on the correctness of my information, either. Kempff recorded so much Beethoven--individual sonatas and individual movements over and and over again--that it's very hard to keep it all in order. Frank Forman's discography is priceless, but hard to decipher.
This is his entry for op.27/1, one of the lesser recorded among Kempff's output (there are 7 recordings of op.27/2, for example):
Sonata 13 in Eb, Op. 27, No. 1.
a. 67858/9, 69077/8 (automatic coupling) [1621 GS9,
1622 1/2 GS9, ?, ?]
b. 1951/2. #18076; #D.DL 9584
c. $138 939
Quote from: jlaurson on June 03, 2009, 07:55:14 AM
Sonata 13 in Eb, Op. 27, No. 1.
a. 67858/9, 69077/8 (automatic coupling) [1621 GS9,
1622 1/2 GS9, ?, ?]
b. 1951/2. #18076; #D.DL 9584
c. $138 939
A list of that kind, which contains so few concrete informations is IMO rather worthless than priceless.
As far as I can see "a." is a 78 RPM release, but it may (as no recording dates are given) as well be the pre-war recording I own in CD transfer as part of the Mono integral from 1952 which probably were released in 78 RPM format too.
"b." ought to be part of the Mono integral.
"c." must then be part of the Stereo integral.
Quote from: premont on June 03, 2009, 08:53:02 AM
A list of that kind, which contains so few concrete informations is IMO rather worthless than priceless.
As far as I can see "a." is a 78 RPM release, but it may (as no recording dates are given) as well be the pre-war recording I own in CD transfer as part of the Mono integral from 1952 which probably were released in 78 RPM format too.
"b." ought to be part of the Mono integral.
"c." must then be part of the Stereo integral.
"Worthless" is of course harsh nonsense. Because of my cutting and pasting you are not privy to some of the information that would explain... something for which the author certainly is not to blame.
But yes, the discography, though complete, is not as useful as it could be. (Then again, often dates are simply not known. This is not a deficiency of Mr. Forman's (who has every recording of Kempff's, except a handful), but of the information simply not being available.
Not mentioned yet, as far as I've read, has been the projected cycle that Westminster got started in 1950 with Kurt Appelbaum who was then replaced with the very young Badura Skoda before the project was abandoned altogether.
A question for the experts: what do we know about Fiorentino and recorded Beethoven sonatas.
I think Concert Artists published a complete cycle by him, but that has shown to be partly a fake, I think. But was he engaged in recording a complete cycle and just never finished it?
Quote from: Mandryka on June 07, 2009, 07:17:49 AM
I think Concert Artists published a complete cycle by him, but that has shown to be partly a fake, I think. But was he engaged in recording a complete cycle and just never finished it?
It's the first that I have read about either of these things. That's disturbing to hear that Concert Artists did that.
Quote from: George on June 07, 2009, 07:22:09 AM
It's the first that I have read about either of these things. That's disturbing to hear that Concert Artists did that.
Remember the scandal involving the late Joyce Hatto and her husband William Barrington-Coupe, owner of Concert Artists?
Q
Quote from: Que on June 07, 2009, 07:36:04 AM
Remember the scandal involving the late Joyce Hatto and her husband William Barrington-Coupe, owner of Concert Artists?
Q
Top news on the old forum if I remember correctly. And if I recall, her used cds sky rocketed! :o For a time, that is.
Quote from: Que on June 07, 2009, 07:36:04 AM
Remember the scandal involving the late Joyce Hatto and her husband William Barrington-Coupe, owner of Concert Artists?
Q
Oh yes, that was also disturbing. I saw a Hatto CD in a used shop yesterday, forget which one.
Quote from: Mandryka on June 07, 2009, 07:17:49 AM
A question for the experts: what do we know about Fiorentino and recorded Beethoven sonatas.
I think Concert Artists published a complete cycle by him, but that has shown to be partly a fake, I think. But was he engaged in recording a complete cycle and just never finished it?
Complete or incomplete... I think the latter... but likely fake, all the same:
Discography, with appropriate warnings:
http://www.geocities.com/elumpe1/SFDiscography.html#BEETHOVEN (http://www.geocities.com/elumpe1/SFDiscography.html#BEETHOVEN)
Reviews (oblivious) of one of those sets:
http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classRev/2003/Mar03/Beethoven_PianoSonatas2.htm (http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classRev/2003/Mar03/Beethoven_PianoSonatas2.htm)
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2003/Mar03/Beethoven_PianoSonatas4.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2003/Mar03/Beethoven_PianoSonatas4.htm)
Quote from: George on June 07, 2009, 07:38:03 AM
Oh yes, that was also disturbing. I saw a Hatto CD in a used shop yesterday, forget which one.
I would buy it -- they are all very good. They chose some outstanding and little known performances to pass off as their own!
Quote from: Mandryka on June 07, 2009, 02:04:10 PM
I would buy it -- they are all very good. They chose some outstanding and little known performances to pass off as their own!
Seems more fair to buy the actual artist who recorded it and thus not cheating him, her, or their company out of the revenue they deserve and that Concert Artists did not.
P.S. Purchasing pirated works used merely removes the buyer one step further from the source (that should have received the compensation for their work), but despite now being rather indirect in its effect, it doesn't really make it right. Sorry to sound a little pedantic about this... but the desire for supporting artists and perhaps even the industry that brings them to us is something I assume we all share, so I don't feel to churlish making that point.
Quote from: jlaurson on June 07, 2009, 03:03:25 PM
Seems more fair to buy the actual artist who recorded it and thus not cheating him, her, or their company out of the revenue they deserve and that Concert Artists did not.
It was in a used shop.
Gelber recorded 6 discs in the late '80ties/early 90ties? for Denon in excellent sound, but for some reason the project was never finished. He had recorded a bunch of sonatas earlier (60ties/70ties) for EMI, but I don't know exactly which ones.
For Denon 19 sonatas were recorded, if I am not mistaken (I lack one volume and they were issued in different combinations later on).
op. 2, 1+3
op. 10, 1-3
op.13
op.27,1+2
op.28
op.31, 2+3
op.49, 2
op.53
op.57
op.79
op.81a
op.90
op.101
op.111
I like them quite a bit, but some of the volumes are quite expensive.
Of the "almost complete" sets I think the DG Gilels is the one to get.
Quote from: Jo498 on June 25, 2014, 07:32:14 AM
Gelber recorded 6 discs in the late '80ties/early 90ties? for Denon in excellent sound,
I bet!
Quote from: Holden on May 31, 2009, 11:46:58 PM
Richter recorded 22 of the 32 (just like Hungerford). Missing are #s 2, 5, 13, 14, 15, 16, 21, 24, 25 and 26.
Maybe Melodiya will release a Beethoven set similar to the Schubert one they did recently for Richter. That would be cool.
Quote from: George on August 19, 2014, 05:15:45 AM
Maybe Melodiya will release a Beethoven set similar to the Schubert one they did recently for Richter. That would be cool.
There's this set, which has 19 sonatas, plus bagatelles, Op 35, the Third PC and the Choral Fantasia.
(http://img.hmv.co.jp/image/jacket/400/53/7/4/337.jpg)
Quote from: Todd on August 19, 2014, 05:36:10 AM
There's this set, which has 19 sonatas, plus bagatelles, Op 35, the Third PC and the Choral Fantasia.
(http://img.hmv.co.jp/image/jacket/400/53/7/4/337.jpg)
Thanks!
Anyone know anything about the label Venezia? (http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/artist_Beethoven-1770-1827_000000000034571/item_Piano-Sonatas-S-Richter-USSR-Recordings-1947-1980-8CD-Limited_5374337)
Don't know anything about the label, but the set appears meant for Russian language markets only, since all but a few disclaimers are in Russian only. Sound is what I expected, and the box and sleeves are robust enough.
(http://img.hmv.co.jp/image/jacket/400/53/7/4/337.jpg)
Some discussion here. (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.music.classical.recordings/Venezia$20Richter/rec.music.classical.recordings/FsR63lCDvbo/YcrU9-lSDpIJ)
More info (I wonder if I have any of this already on Melodiya or Brilliant Classics):
Disc1
Beethoven:
· Op.2-1 Piano Sonata No. 1 in F minor
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, October 10,
1976
· Op.2-3 Piano Sonata No. 3 in C major
Recorded live at Leningrad June 1960
· Op.7 No. 4 in E flat major Piano Sonata
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, January 12,
1975
Disc2
Piano Sonata No. 6 in F major, op.10-2
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, December 20,
1980
· Op.10-3 Piano Sonata No. 7 in D major
Recorded live at Leningrad June 1960
· "Pathetique" op.13 Piano Sonata No. 8 in C minor
Recording studio in Moscow, June 04, 1959
Disc3
· Op.14-1 Piano Sonata No. 9 in E major
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, June 05, 1947
No. 10 in G major, op.14-2 - Piano Sonatas
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, November 29,
1962
· A flat major op.26 Piano Sonata No. 12 funny
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, 1961
Disc4
· Op.31-2 "Tempest" Piano Sonata No. 17 in D minor
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, October 10,
1965
· Op.31-3 in E flat major Piano Sonata No. 18
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory recorded
October 10, 1965
· No. 19 in G minor, op.49-1 Piano Sonata
Recorded live at Leningrad January 1965
Disc5
· Op.54 Piano Sonata No. 22 in F major
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, January 17,
1951
- "Passion" op.57 Piano Sonata No. 23 in F minor
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, June 09, 1960
· Op.90 Piano Sonata No. 27 in E minor
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, January 10,
1965
Disc6
No. 28 - Piano Sonata in A major op.101
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, October 10,
1965
· Op.110 Piano Sonata No. 30 in E flat major
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, January 22,
1972
· A major op.110 Piano Sonata No. 31 funny
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, October 10,
1965
Disc7
· Op.111 Piano Sonata No. 32 in C minor
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, January 12,
1975
Gallery and Bagatelles (8 songs)
In F major, op.33-3
C major op.33-5
C major op.119-2
C major op.119-7
A minor op.119-9
G major op.126-1
B minor op.126-4
In E flat major, op.126-6
Recording studios in Moscow on July 6, 1959
· Op.35 in E flat major Eroica Variations
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, January 17,
1951
Disc8
· Op.37 Piano Concerto No. 3 in C minor
Ah vent conductor Hermann Roth, National Symphony Orchestra of the
USSR
Recorded live at the Great Hall of Moscow Conservatory, October 25,
1954
Choral Fantasy in C minor · op.80
Conductor Kurt Sanderling, Moscow Radio Symphony Orchestra
Recording studios in Moscow February 23, 1952
Quote from: Todd on August 19, 2014, 05:54:11 AM
Don't know anything about the label, but the set appears meant for Russian language markets only, since all but a few disclaimers are in Russian only. Sound is what I expected, and the box and sleeves are robust enough.
Thanks again. Is the sound as good (or better) than the Richter Beethoven set on Brilliant Classics? I have read elsewhere that Venezia uses master tapes for their releases.
Quote from: George on August 19, 2014, 05:55:29 AMI wonder if I have any of this already on Melodiya or Brilliant Classics
Almost certainly. I had a Denon disc of three sonatas, and all three are in this set. This appears to be a repackaging of oft-reissued recordings. Sound is the same as for the Denon, but I can't say if it is better or worse than other reissues, though I suspect any differences would be slight.
Quote from: Todd on August 19, 2014, 05:58:45 AM
Almost certainly. I had a Denon disc of three sonatas, and all three are in this set. This appears to be a repackaging of oft-reissued recordings. Sound is the same as for the Denon, but I can't say if it is better or worse than other reissues, though I suspect any differences would be slight.
Thanks again, I have the Denon disc you mentioned, so I will check it again later to remind myself of the sound quality.
Well, one current pianist I like a lot is Igor Tchetuev's cycle on Caro Mitis. He has completed six volumes, but nothing in a couple of years, and I am not sure Caro Mitis as a label continues to be active. Hopefully Tchetuev will not be relegated to the unfinished cycle bin....
It's a bit surprising that a pianist like Serkin who was so strongly associated with the Austro-German repertoire apparently had less than half of the sonatas in his longterm repertoire, and when there were plans to make a complete recording for the anniversary 1970 he couldn't (or didn't want to) learn the remainder fast enough. Apparently, his core was basically the "named" sonatas opp.13, 27/2, 53, 57, 81a and op.78 and the late sonatas.
A bit strange for me is also that the sonatas Serkin did record in 1970 (apparently in the course of this abandoned project) are mostly not among the more frequently played pieces, e.g. the least popular of op.10 (2) and op.31(1), op.22 or op.27/1. I wonder if this was him going by some schedule originally planned for a complete recording or by preference. Admittedly, I find these interpretations not particularly noteworthy for the most part, i.e. they are not going to make these sonatas into favorites or become favorite recordings them.
It's a pity that Serkin didn't get around to record sonatas like op.10,1+3, op.31/2, op.90 where I could imagine him being more interesting than in some of the ones just mentioned.
Quote from: Jo498 on August 22, 2021, 01:19:20 AM
It's a bit surprising that a pianist like Serkin who was so strongly associated with the Austro-German repertoire apparently had less than half of the sonatas in his longterm repertoire, and when there were plans to make a complete recording for the anniversary 1970 he couldn't (or didn't want to) learn the remainder fast enough. Apparently, his core was basically the "named" sonatas opp.13, 27/2, 53, 57, 81a and op.78 and the late sonatas.
A bit strange for me is also that the sonatas Serkin did record in 1970 (apparently in the course of this abandoned project) are mostly not among the more frequently played pieces, e.g. the least popular of op.10 (2) and op.31(1), op.22 or op.27/1. I wonder if this was him going by some schedule originally planned for a complete recording or by preference. Admittedly, I find these interpretations not particularly noteworthy for the most part, i.e. they are not going to make these sonatas into favorites or become favorite recordings them.
It's a pity that Serkin didn't get around to record sonatas like op.10,1+3, op.31/2, op.90 where I could imagine him being more interesting than in some of the ones just mentioned.
According to his biography he'd practice things for hours, and still didn't feel like he was very secure when it came to recording pieces. I think he set that bar very high for when he felt capable of recording something. My general feeling was there was a sort of lifelong imposter syndrome. I don't think it mentioned why he recorded some of the early sonatas over others. I wish his repertoire was more diverse.
Despite Richter and Serkin my favorite Beethoven half-cycle is Gelber/Denon, I listened to most of it in the last two weeks and liked it enormously.
I listed which sonatas he recorded for Denon in #27. The most glaring gaps are opp.106, 109, 110. Gelber also clearly had favorites because he re-recorded all the sonatas he had done for EMI in the late 1960s and 1970s (opp.13, 27/1+2, 28, 31/3, 57, 81a, 90), just like Serkin did with his 1940s/50s and 70s recordings, so no gaps can be closed.
Quote from: Jo498 on August 22, 2021, 01:19:20 AM
It's a bit surprising that a pianist like Serkin who was so strongly associated with the Austro-German repertoire apparently had less than half of the sonatas in his longterm repertoire, and when there were plans to make a complete recording for the anniversary 1970 he couldn't (or didn't want to) learn the remainder fast enough. Apparently, his core was basically the "named" sonatas opp.13, 27/2, 53, 57, 81a and op.78 and the late sonatas.
A bit strange for me is also that the sonatas Serkin did record in 1970 (apparently in the course of this abandoned project) are mostly not among the more frequently played pieces, e.g. the least popular of op.10 (2) and op.31(1), op.22 or op.27/1. I wonder if this was him going by some schedule originally planned for a complete recording or by preference. Admittedly, I find these interpretations not particularly noteworthy for the most part, i.e. they are not going to make these sonatas into favorites or become favorite recordings them.
It's a pity that Serkin didn't get around to record sonatas like op.10,1+3, op.31/2, op.90 where I could imagine him being more interesting than in some of the ones just mentioned.
While I often wish Richter and Serkin (and Moravec) recorded more, I have come to believe that what makes their performances special is that the pianists chose works that they loved. That could explain why it was attempting to record the complete Beethoven sonatas that Serkin started to turn up some duds. Could also be an age thing, for I find Serkin's early Beethoven to better his later recordings.
I was precisely wondering if the choice of sonatas Serkin recorded but apparently not really added to his repertoire in ca. 1970 was driven by personal preference or by some plan for a complete set that never came to fruition. It's not mainly that the recordings are not as good as his earlier ones, it's that it's mostly sonatas I both personally don't much care for and that mostly seem not among the popular ones, so I really doubt that op.10/2 or 27/1 were particular favorites of Serkin, maybe it was just that he started with them because he wanted to do all and these were easier to play or whatever.
OTOH Serkin did have at least one really odd favorite, namely the Fantasy op.77... and there are other pianists (like Michelangeli) who also picked mostly sonatas I don't much care for...
Quote from: George on August 22, 2021, 08:09:30 AM
While I often wish Richter and Serkin (and Moravec) recorded more, I have come to believe that what makes their performances special is that the pianists chose works that they loved. That could explain why it was attempting to record the complete Beethoven sonatas that Serkin started to turn up some duds. Could also be an age thing, for I find Serkin's early Beethoven to better his later recordings.
This is why I prefer Beethoven sonata cycles (and the SQ cycles too) that are culled together from over a decade or so. It seems less of filling a quota to meet the bottom line by recording over a weekend or two, and more of an attempt to gain insight through living with the music over time. Today, though, meeting the bottom line may be more important since it seems the artists themselves foot the bill anymore.
Regardless, taking that kind of time leaves the chance of not finishing a cycle.
We don't always know (although of course it is often known or could be researched) how long artists have "lived" with the works before recording them.
There is something to be said for a set of works recorded within a brief period of time to give a consistent picture (Gulda/Amadeo was done within a few weeks, I believe), Schnabel or Arrau (Philips) were done within around 5-6? years but they also show a consistent picture. Similarly for the Gelber/Denon (ca. 1987-92)
Pollini's is an example for a cycle that took almost 4 decades and accordingly development/differences which can also be interesting.
With Richter we have the passage of time, inconsistency of (live) recordings and other factors.
Of course, inconsistency or diversity is not only a question of time. Gould's Beethoven was recorded over 15 years or so but the inconsistency might be more because he was a bit crazy than due to passage of years.
Quote from: Jo498 on August 22, 2021, 11:37:50 AM
We don't always know (although of course it is often known or could be researched) how long artists have "lived" with the works before recording them.
There is something to be said for a set of works recorded within a brief period of time to give a consistent picture (Gulda/Amadeo was done within a few weeks, I believe), Schnabel or Arrau (Philips) were done within around 5-6? years but they also show a consistent picture. Similarly for the Gelber/Denon (ca. 1987-92)
Pollini's is an example for a cycle that took almost 4 decades and accordingly development/differences which can also be interesting.
With Richter we have the passage of time, inconsistency of (live) recordings and other factors.
Of course, inconsistency or diversity is not only a question of time. Gould's Beethoven was recorded over 15 years or so but the inconsistency might be more because he was a bit crazy than due to passage of years.
True, and I like your breadth of examples.
I personally like hearing a growth of vision and the experience of performance over time than I necessarily do consistency. This could certainly give a ragged amount of highs and lows depending on the span of time, the quirks of personality and personal health, and recording technologies and situations, so I completely understand the want for a cohesive insight over a cycle, complete or not; but for me it is not essential. Maybe what I really want is the development and diversity you speak of, and performances over time have more variegated possibilities of that aspect.
On the other hand, I don't know how many cycles Barenboim has given us up to now, but have we been given further insight from him over endless complete cycles? Perhaps not a discussion for this thread.