GMG Classical Music Forum

Why or why don't you? I don't eat so poorly but I'd just like to be sure I get all the necessary nutrients. I've heard some people praise them through the roof and others say they can even be bad for health. I don't know what to make of it.

QuoteIndustrialized food production has depleted both soil and food nutrients and it's compounded by widespread consumption of unripe produce shipped across continents.

This is one reason I'd think of taking them. Even if you eat well you can't get everything you need.

Have been taken them for many years, but only the ones recommended by my naturopathic physician.

I kind of wanted to start a 2nd poll but I guess not many people do. Does anyone take enzymes capsules? Any experience with them?

Quote from: Mozart on July 01, 2009, 06:36:31 PM
This is one reason I'd think of taking them. Even if you eat well you can't get everything you need.

Nobody eats well in this day and age. I know, i grew up in a rural Italian town still seeped in old agrarian and pastoral traditions. I've also spend more then ten years living in the states. The difference in diet is considerable, and to be frank, i'm not even sure how Americans manage to survive in the industrial hellhole they have locked themselves in. The stuff they eat is appalling, and sadly i had to cave in myself, since i'm not much of a cook. I've noticed that vitamin supplements actually help in this situation, as does eating fruit, or whatever surrogate they sell in grocery stores.

One a day multi vitamin, and maybe fish oil, but anything else is "Pharmedia" manipulation.

Well I grew up on the worst diet imaginable. I've flipped total 180 and I cook very simple things even if they don't taste good. Beans? They aren't difficult to make, but I am sure there are ways to make them tastier. I've switched to oatmeal instead of breakfast cereal, it's also easy to make and I love the taste with honey and cinammon. It's basically my diet beans, rice, lentils, oatmeal, and whatever fruit I can afford. Of course there are always other temptations that I can't always avoid. I eat meat one meal a week.

Can I ask you JpD, if you notice any significant change in mood since changing to the American diet? I find that when one eats poorly they feel depressed, but a proper diet can make you feel great.

Quote from: snyprrr on July 01, 2009, 07:02:58 PM
One a day multi vitamin, and maybe fish oil, but anything else is "Pharmedia" manipulation.

Fish oil is fantastic stuff, I don't think I invent it but when I take them I don't get headaches. I'm also able to focus much easier since I don't get headaches I usually do.

I've never tried enzymes though, back to the food being poor, enzymes in theory should really help digest food as its meant to be done. An apple that is a few weeks old can't have many enzymes left in it.


Everything else I agree is crap.

I took vitamins until my second pregnancy.  Then the high levels of iron and vitamins sickened  me in the worst way. I haven't been able to look at a vitamin pill without gagging since then and it's been many, many, years. 

This goes further than just vitamins and it's worth considering. Today's food is contaminated by all sorts of things (steroids in poultry is just one example) and not much appears to be natural anymore. As mentioned above, much of today's grown/produced food suffers thus - {Industrialized food production has depleted both soil and food nutrients and it's compounded by widespread consumption of unripe produce shipped across continents}.

So what do I take and why.

Vitamins:

Vitamin B complex that must include B6, B12 and Folate (folic acid). I have high cholesterol levels but refuse to take statin based drugs, All they eventually do is bugger up your liver and do nothing to reduce arterial plaque! What you should be looking at is your homocysteine levels. Get them tested by your doctor (he'll look at you sideways and ask why) and if they are high use the above to help reduce them significantly.

Enzymes:

Co-Enzyme Q10 (CoQ10). This is naturally produced by your body but as you get older, it's production reduces. If you take cholesterol reducing drugs it is basically leached out of your system by these drugs. This a major player in your energy system, particularly regarding the heart. Low CoQ10 means low metabolism, etc.

Serrapeptase This amazing enzyme works by removing dead tissue/matter from your body, starting with your blood stream but it also moves elsewhere and supposedly can remove scar tissue. I took it because of the research done regarding it's ability to slowly remove arterial plaque. Ten years ago I had a blood pressure reading of 135/96 - not too good - but I resisted taking the statin medication. My most recent reading was 135 (not bad at all for my age) over 85. My doctor said this was good and couldn't correlate it with my high cholesterol readings. He didn't bother suggesting statin medication or BP medication for that matter.

Hi Holden, the best way to lower your cholesterol is not through drugs but taking a very high fiber diet.

QuoteFiber binds with the bile acids that are used to make cholesterol. Fiber isn't absorbed, so when it exits the body in the feces, it takes the bile acids with it. As a result, the body may end up with less cholesterol.

Can someone explain blood pressure to me? I don't understand what the numbers mean at all.

Quote from: Mozart on July 02, 2009, 05:39:16 AM
Hi Holden, the best way to lower your cholesterol is not through drugs but taking a very high fiber diet.
Can someone explain blood pressure to me? I don't understand what the numbers mean at all.

The pressure in your blood vessels oscillates, going up at the moment your heart contracts and going down at the moment your heart relaxes and prepares for the next contraction.  The blood pressure is an estimate of the pressure in your blood vessels at maximum and minimum.  The lower number is considered more significant, since it is the pressure in your vessels when the heart is resting.

Ok makes sense, so what is the ideal pressure to have?

Quote from: Holden on July 02, 2009, 12:16:55 AM
Enzymes:

Co-Enzyme Q10 (CoQ10). This is naturally produced by your body but as you get older, it's production reduces. If you take cholesterol reducing drugs it is basically leached out of your system by these drugs. This a major player in your energy system, particularly regarding the heart. Low CoQ10 means low metabolism, etc.

Serrapeptase This amazing enzyme works by removing dead tissue/matter from your body, starting with your blood stream but it also moves elsewhere and supposedly can remove scar tissue. I took it because of the research done regarding it's ability to slowly remove arterial plaque. Ten years ago I had a blood pressure reading of 135/96 - not too good - but I resisted taking the statin medication. My most recent reading was 135 (not bad at all for my age) over 85. My doctor said this was good and couldn't correlate it with my high cholesterol readings. He didn't bother suggesting statin medication or BP medication for that matter.

Frankly this makes little sense to me.  These are "enzymes" which means they are proteins.  If taken orally proteins are typically broken down to their amino acids during the digestion process.  For a complex protein to be absorbed and remain active after being exposed to the harsh environment of the digestive track is highly unlikely.  This is why protein drugs (such as insulin) are generally administered intravenously, not orally.

Quote from: Mozart on July 02, 2009, 07:09:25 AM
Ok makes sense, so what is the ideal pressure to have?

You've never heard of wikipedia?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_pressure

I take a multivitamin, fish oil, when I need a boost to my energy levels I take a B vitamin.  Currently though I've been taking 5-htp, to help focus.  It's effective on helping my mood and appetite as well.

Quote from: DavidW on July 02, 2009, 08:06:10 AM
I take a multivitamin, fish oil, when I need a boost to my energy levels I take a B vitamin.  Currently though I've been taking 5-htp, to help focus.  It's effective on helping my mood and appetite as well.

I would not do it.  5-htp is an intermediate in the synthesis of serotonin.  Since these biochemical pathways are normally tightly regulated flooding your body with this stuff, if it has any effect, will probably stimulate degradation pathway or have other unanticipated effects.  From a scientific standpoint, there is as much evidence that this stuff will do harm as that it will do any good.

The best thing to do is to eat a diverse diet which is as close as possible to raw food ingredients, particularly vegetables.  Isolating one particular, rare chemical and consuming it is bizarrely large quantities seems like a bad idea to me.  Instead of fish oil, you can consider eating a fish.

That makes sense, argued very well for sticking to simply eating well.  I'll stop the pill popping.

Quote from: Scarpia on July 02, 2009, 07:15:23 AM
Frankly this makes little sense to me.  These are "enzymes" which means they are proteins.  If taken orally proteins are typically broken down to their amino acids during the digestion process.  For a complex protein to be absorbed and remain active after being exposed to the harsh environment of the digestive track is highly unlikely.  This is why protein drugs (such as insulin) are generally administered intravenously, not orally.

Enteric coated capsules taken well before food tend to go past this stage and reach the upper intestinal tract. This is what I take.

Regarding cholesterol. It's only bad for you if it adheres to arterial walls as plaque. Cholesterol is naturally produced by your liver and people like me have an inherited ability to over produce it (thanks Dad!). Cholesterol is an important part of your immune system and to remove to much is to run the chance of adversely affecting your health. Studies have shown that even people with supposedly 'normal' cholesterol levels have develpoed arterosclerosis.

Quote from: Mozart on July 01, 2009, 07:06:44 PM
Can I ask you JpD, if you notice any significant change in mood since changing to the American diet?

Considerably, and for the worst. Of course, stress and work have taken their toll as well, but the sporadic occasions i manage to get a good meal everything gets better almost instantaneously. I've even considered relocating in Italy as a form of therapy but i can't afford to quit my job.

Quote from: Josquin des Prez on July 02, 2009, 06:59:18 PM
Considerably, and for the worst. Of course, stress and work have taken their toll as well, but the sporadic occasions i manage to get a good meal everything gets better almost instantaneously. I've even considered relocating in Italy as a form of therapy but i can't afford to quit my job.

If it's important to you, you can find the time to cook, learn to cook, learn to cook well.

So is that it? No one mentioned anything negative about vitamins.

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Just curious, which brand do you take and is there any specific reason you chose it over another?

Quote from: Mozart on July 03, 2009, 12:34:22 PM
So is that it? No one mentioned anything negative about vitamins.

Did you read the thread at all? 

Multi-vitamins can be an aid if you have a severely deficient diet.  For instance the fact that almost all grain products in the US are required to be "enriched" with folic acid has reduced birth defects due to vitamin deficiency.  However anything is poisonous if taken in large enough quantities (even water).  It is quite possible to harm yourself by ingesting a nutrient in excessive quanitites. 

Multivitamins are no substitute for a good diet.  Eat generous portions of vegetables and there is no need for multivitamins.

Quote from: Scarpia on July 09, 2009, 08:11:44 AM
Did you read the thread at all? 

Multi-vitamins can be an aid if you have a severely deficient diet.  For instance the fact that almost all grain products in the US are required to be "enriched" with folic acid has reduced birth defects due to vitamin deficiency.  However anything is poisonous if taken in large enough quantities (even water).  It is quite possible to harm yourself by ingesting a nutrient in excessive quanitites. 

Multivitamins are no substitute for a good diet.  Eat generous portions of vegetables and there is no need for multivitamins.

I do take a good diet, and I try and avoid as much as possible enriched grains. I've seen someone take a magnet in a cereal and little chunks of iron stuck onto the magnet. The purpose of the multivitamin would not be to substitute a good diet for a bad one, but to ensure that I am getting all of the essential nutrients. Even a good diet can't have everything you need when the soil it grows on has been depleted of its nutrients.

Quote from: Mozart on July 09, 2009, 08:36:53 AM
I do take a good diet, and I try and avoid as much as possible enriched grains. I've seen someone take a magnet in a cereal and little chunks of iron stuck onto the magnet. The purpose of the multivitamin would not be to substitute a good diet for a bad one, but to ensure that I am getting all of the essential nutrients. Even a good diet can't have everything you need when the soil it grows on has been depleted of its nutrients.

What you are describing is not an enriched grain.  You are seeing a cereal company that puts a nutrient in a non-absorbable form in the cereal in order to be able to put a good number on the nutrition disclosure.  Your multi-vitamin would likely be the same stuff.

If the soil is depleted of its nutrients the plant won't grow.  The plant grows to the extent that nutrients are available, so if it grows the nutrients are there.

Taking a regular multivitamin isn't going to hurt you; if you feel better about your diet while taking one, take it.

I took pregnancy vitamins while I was pregnant (and sometimes, even managed to keep them down). I don't take vitamins now, but I have a pretty balanced diet: equal portions of chocolate, caffeine, fat, sugar, and salt. :D Okay, kidding about that breakdown, of course.

If you're concerned about your diet, you can plug what you're eating into an online food tracking system which will break down your diet into protein, carbs, and fats overall, give you nutritional info for the foods you eat, track your calories, and so on. One such place that lets you do that is here: http://caloriecount.about.com

One need not know how to cook to have a good diet; some folks stick to a diet of entirely raw foods. I'm not one of them; I like my meats cooked, my eggs over easy, and pasta al dente. Bon appetit!

Someone told me that your body can't actually asborb vitamins without some plant fiber?

Thanks for the website owlice! If I werent so lazy now I'd check it out.

Quote from: Mozart on July 03, 2009, 12:34:22 PM
So is that it? No one mentioned anything negative about vitamins.

I'll say something negative about vitamins--the filler, what they are embedded in, also, about CAUSING imbalances by taking for instance, certain B vitamins that need the others to be used.

But to get back to my first point (and I'd REALLY be interested if someone else had the same reactions), I think that my body reached some kind of saturation point about 2 years ago and to this day, I can't take any more vitamins or amino acids without tasting them hours later or feeling like they are oozing from my skin. I read in "Life Extension" (the original book from the 1980's) that a person had such a reaction from acidic vitamins and it took him 3 months to metabolize them.

So at the time they were suggesting that one should neutralize acidic vitamins. But to this day, I have a hard time believing they were stuffing themselves with so many pills per day, at least around 50, and getting NO bad reactions from them. I am really skeptical about pills, even vitamins, now.

ZB

These pills are part of a conspiracy. I'm waiting for robnewman to throw in some FACTs here, and then I'm going in the opposite direction.