I have been busy recently with research into the Royal Navy between the end of World War One and the outbreak of World War Two but...just to keep my hand in ;D
Using the criteria of a composer having composed four or more symphonies and less than half being available currently on cd the following little list emerges-
Grazyna Bacewicz(Poland): 1 out of 4
Henk Badings(The Netherlands): 5 out of 14 ?
Arnold Cooke(Great Britain): 2 out of 6
Peter Racine Fricker(Great Britain): 1 out of 5
Alun Hoddinott(Great Britain): 4 out of 10
Janis Ivanovs(Latvia): 9 out of 21
Daniel Jones(Great Britain): 5 out of 13
Paul von Klenau(Denmark): 3 out of 9
Ragnar Soderlind(Norway): 3 out of 8
Maximilian Steinberg(Russia); 2 out of 5
Malcolm Williamson(Australia): 3 out of 7
William Wordsworth(Great Britain): 2 out of 8
It is a very personal list, I admit. I was tempted to include Arthur Butterworth(2 out of 6), Iain Hamilton(none of 4), Edvin Kallstenius(1 of 5) or Valentin Silvestrov(3 of 7). I understand, however, that CPO is embarking on a Kallstenius cycle and BIS on a Silvestrov cycle. CPO has already started its Badings cycle. DaCapo may continue recording von Klenau symphonies.
What is surprising is that there are more British composers than I had expected(but then I am British so I am biased ;D) and no Americans. There is no famous American composer who falls within my criteria(except Vittorio Giannini-and he isn't exactly famous!). There are 5 unrecorded David Diamond symphonies and three each by Roy Harris and George Rochberg but the great American symphonists have actually done pretty well by recordings.
I agree with excluding Silvestrov - whether or not they are currently recorded, they inevitably will be - some many times over - given his current popularity. He's "made it", I feel.
This Iain Hamilton fellow (0 out of 4) strikes me as enigmatic - has any musicologist yet been able to comment on their worth, or is this already implied by the quality of his other music?
Quote from: Dundonnell on July 07, 2009, 09:19:20 AM
Grazyna Bacewicz(Poland): 1 out of 4
You'd think that the centenary would change something but so far... nothing. ::)
Quote from: Lethe on July 07, 2009, 09:46:56 AM
I agree with excluding Silvestrov - whether or not they are currently recorded, they inevitably will be - some many times over - given his current popularity. He's "made it", I feel.
This Iain Hamilton fellow (0 out of 4) strikes me as enigmatic - has any musicologist yet been able to comment on their worth, or is this already implied by the quality of his other music?
If you are interested here is a link to an article by Paul Conway about Iain Hamilton. Hamilton is-almost without any doubt-the most seriously neglected of the generation of British composers who came to maturity in the two decades after 1945. What Conway has to say about the music and the four symphonies in particular makes me very sorry that this neglect continues to this day.
http://www.musicweb-international.com/Hamilton/index.htm
Quote from: Dundonnell on July 07, 2009, 04:22:42 PM
If you are interested here is a link to an article by Paul Conway about Iain Hamilton. Hamilton is-almost without any doubt-the most seriously neglected of the generation of British composers who came to maturity in the two decades after 1945. What Conway has to say about the music and the four symphonies in particular makes me very sorry that this neglect continues to this day.
http://www.musicweb-international.com/Hamilton/index.htm
Beautiful words, thank you! Come on, Chandos! :P
Interesting thread Colin. Naval research sounds interesting - are you writing a book?
Wilfred Josephs 0 out of 12 symphonies - a discraceful situation.
Hilding Rosenberg doesn't fit into your critirea, but we need a complete cycle.
Claudio Santoro - only two symphonies recorded (no 4 is a wonderfully inspiriting score) out of at least nine.
Quote from: vandermolen on July 08, 2009, 11:24:59 AM
Claudio Santoro - only two symphonies recorded (no 4 is a wonderfully inspiriting score) out of at least nine.
I also own a (Brasilian) recording of his Symphony No. 5, which makes a total of three symphonies out of nine, or 33%. And I do admire all three.
Santoro is not unlike Camargo Guarnieri, of whom the first six (out of seven) were recorded by the same forces, the Sao Paolo SO under John Neschling, who did a superb job. Both Guarnieri and Santoro, but especially Guarnieri, are fine symphonists, I would say. (And both were often writing in a neoclassicist idiom that I happen to love, so I'm biased ;-)
Quote from: Christo on July 08, 2009, 11:45:19 AM
I also own a (Brasilian) recording of his Symphony No. 5, which makes a total of three symphonies out of nine, or 33%. And I do admire all three.
Santoro is not unlike Camargo Guarnieri, of whom the first six (out of seven) were recorded by the same forces, the Sao Paolo SO under John Neschling, who did a superb job. Both Guarnieri and Santoro, but especially Guarnieri, are fine symphonists, I would say. (And both were often writing in a neoclassicist idiom that I happen to love, so I'm biased ;-)
I have you Johan to thank for introducing me to this composer (his symphonies 4 and 9 happily smuggled into the house some time back ;D). You are right - the similarity with Guarnieri is very apparent, although the slow movement of Symphony No 4 (my favourite) reminded me a bit of Bernard Herrmann! The arrival of the chorus in the last movement of Symphony No 4 is a great, inspiriting moment - oddly reminiscent of Vaughan Williams. I play this symphony often (including at this moment). 'Ponteio' is also a fine work, which says a lot in 5 minutes.
Quote from: Dundonnell on July 07, 2009, 09:19:20 AM
What is surprising is that there are more British composers than I had expected(but then I am British so I am biased ;D) and no Americans. There is no famous American composer who falls within my criteria(except Vittorio Giannini-and he isn't exactly famous!). There are 5 unrecorded David Diamond symphonies and three each by Roy Harris and George Rochberg but the great American symphonists have actually done pretty well by recordings.
With Telarc being sold off recently, I have been thinking that American labels have not really shown same the commitment to native composers that the British have to theirs.
Quote from: vandermolen on July 08, 2009, 04:53:27 AM
Interesting thread Colin. Naval research sounds interesting - are you writing a book?
Wilfred Josephs 0 out of 12 symphonies - a discraceful situation.
Hilding Rosenberg doesn't fit into your critirea, but we need a complete cycle.
No, Jeffrey, not writing a book, I am afraid! I just get the proverbial bee(or, more likely, swarm of bees) in my bonnet about some obscure area of research and spend weeks on it. This time it involves compiling lists...now there's a surprise, isn't it ;D ;D. I have been working out exactly who was the captain of every British battleship, battlecruiser, aircraft carrier and cruiser(that's 84 ships) between 1918 and 1945 and the deployment of these ships. Involves travelling to libraries to consult dust-covered copies of the Navy Lists for each year. No such lists exist anywhere in book form or on the net!
Sorry...huge digression :) I agree with you about both Wilfred Josephs and Claudio Santoro(both of whom fit within my idiosyncratic criteria).
Well, sounds like a booklet at least, Colin! You should start a separate thread where we could monitor your progress! (Dead serious, if anyone is wondering.)
Hoddinott's 6th Symphony, couple with the composer's evocative tone poem 'Lanterne des Morts' available on the Chandos label, is a beautiful work with a fantastic climax that drifts away to end a symphony that should be more performed than it is currently.
Are they all worth it? Some surely are, but I'm not sure all are...
Josephs is one of those figures like Walker and Bowen I feel - rather tepid music, lacking personality and soul.
Quote from: Guido on October 01, 2010, 01:24:10 PM
Are they all worth it? Some surely are, but I'm not sure all are...
Josephs is one of those figures like Walker and Bowen I feel - rather tepid music, lacking personality and soul.
Bowen was certainly a big disappointment but I'd like to have the opportunity to hear more Josephs. He wrote some fine incidental music for film and TV and an impressive Requiem which I have on LP but I never heard any of his symphonies.
One of the most shockingly neglected is David Diamond. Have there ever been complete recordings of his Symphonies 6, 7, 9, 10 or 11?
Quote from: Daverz on October 04, 2010, 02:21:27 AM
One of the most shockingly neglected is David Diamond. Have there ever been complete recordings of his Symphonies 6, 7, 9, 10 or 11?
Good point - I think that Diamond was a great composer - I especially like Symphony 3.
Quote from: Daverz on October 04, 2010, 02:21:27 AM
Have there ever been complete recordings of his Symphonies 6, 7, 9, 10 or 11?
You mean parts of them have been recorded? ;)
Quote from: erato on October 04, 2010, 01:24:12 PM
You mean parts of them have been recorded? ;)
Yup, Delos only got one movement of 11 in the can.
Quote from: vandermolen on July 08, 2009, 02:22:10 PM
I have you Johan to thank for introducing me to this composer (his symphonies 4 and 9 happily smuggled into the house some time back ;D). You are right - the similarity with Guarnieri is very apparent, although the slow movement of Symphony No 4 (my favourite) reminded me a bit of Bernard Herrmann!
Although not a symphonist per se,
Herrmann did compose a symphony, which is only available used now on Amazon.
A recording from the middle 70's had a performance with the composer conducting.
Either way, BIS is neglecting their duty to finish that Pettersson cycle.
Yes, definitely Pettersson! ;)
Bump. A lot of things are still happening on the recording market, but on top of my head, some other recent composers - where only a few of many symphonies have been recorded - would be
- Daniel Börtz
- Sven Erik Tarp
- Niels Viggo Bentzon
- Karel Boleslav Jirak
- Sergei Slonimsky
- Alexander Lokshin
- Felix Glonti
- (and of course, Segerstam ...)
That Badings is still underrecorded is difficult to understand. Hopefully CPO will finish their cycle.
Quote from: Daverz on October 04, 2010, 02:20:48 PM
Yup, Delos only got one movement of 11 in the can.
Which whets one's appetite for the rest. One scandalous thing that I became aware of was that when Diamond's 11th Symphony was premiered in 1992 the conductor, Kurt Masur, took upon himself to cut ten minutes from the finale. I hope when it is recorded those bars are included, I feel, even if the symphony does have longueurs, I'd sooner listen to Diamond's longueurs than many another composer's concise thoughts.
All of Lajtha's symphonies (+ a few suites) have been recorded for Marco Polo but they were mostly oop for some time (so I count this as comparably neglected). Apparently these recordings are now made available again on Naxos:
[asin]B01ICFPTC8[/asin]
I wouldn't call him neglected, but it would be nice to get recordings of Peter Maxwell Davies' 7th-9th Symphonies, to complete the cycle.
Of the ones mentioned in the OP, I'd particularly like to see more recordings of Daniel Jones' symphonies. He spent most of his life in my home city, and a lot of his works were premiered at our annual festival.
Quote from: Jo498 on September 24, 2016, 11:24:47 PM
All of Lajtha's symphonies (+ a few suites) have been recorded for Marco Polo but they were mostly oop for some time (so I count this as comparably neglected). Apparently these recordings are now made available again on Naxos:
[asin]B01ICFPTC8[/asin]
Symphony 2 is my favourite.
Quote from: Christo on July 08, 2009, 11:45:19 AM
I also own a (Brasilian) recording of his Symphony No. 5, which makes a total of three symphonies out of nine, or 33%. And I do admire all three.
Santoro is not unlike Camargo Guarnieri, of whom the first six (out of seven) were recorded by the same forces, the Sao Paolo SO under John Neschling, who did a superb job. Both Guarnieri and Santoro, but especially Guarnieri, are fine symphonists, I would say. (And both were often writing in a neoclassicist idiom that I happen to love, so I'm biased ;-)
Just been listening to Symphony 4 by Santoro and thought of your advocacy of the work as well. A wonderful catchy, moving and life-affirming symphony.
Interesting topic, again with a whole lot of composers I probably need to investigate.
Evgeny Golubev certainly fits here with 2 of 7 recorded on Melodiya (but both these OOP as far as I can tell). Golubev was the missing link between Miaskovsky and Schnittke. Have a listen to Symphony No. 7 on Youtube. It seems quite impressive to me, in its way. Definitely in the line of Miaskovsky and Shebalin....
As far as I can tell, Alun Hoddinott fits here, with only Symphonies 2, 3, 5 and 6 currently available on Amazon. That said, all of the ten apart from Symphony No. 1 can be heard on Youtube, so someone must have recorded them at least in some capacity.
And I don't think we've had any orchestral Symphonies by Sorabji performed, let alone recorded... not that we'd necessarily want any.
I find Cage's symphony to be pretty neglected.
Quote from: nathanb on September 26, 2016, 02:24:33 PM
I find Cage's symphony to be pretty neglected.
Cage composed a symphony? What's it like?
To paraphrase Twain: one symphony makes a symphonist? 8)
Quote from: Mirror Image on September 26, 2016, 07:09:10 PM
Cage composed a symphony? What's it like?
It's in four movements, it's for a large orchestra, and he called it a symphony. More than good enough for me :)
And of course, now youtube fails me.
Vyacheslav Ovchinnikov, famous 50 years ago for composing a great score for Sergei Bondarchuk's 8-hour film version of War and Peace, is now almost forgotten.
He composed 4 symphonies, available now only via YouTube or certain listening sites:
The Fourth Symphony:
https://www.youtube.com/v/FzysPktaXmI
Quote from: nathanb on September 27, 2016, 06:32:07 AM
It's in four movements, it's for a large orchestra, and he called it a symphony. More than good enough for me :)
And of course, now youtube fails me.
Are you talking about "101"?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b_5WePO5ac
Quote from: sanantonio on September 27, 2016, 06:55:42 AM
Are you talking about "101"?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b_5WePO5ac
"108" is the one typically referred to as a symphony. "1O1", although also a number piece for large orchestra, was not composed with quite the same intent. I love both pieces.
Gian Carlo Menotti composed a symphony in 1976 which is, I believe, unrecorded. When you consider the success of his opera and theatre music as well as the quality of his concerti for violin, piano, and something for cello (I believe), it's hard to imagine the work being bad..Then again, 1976 was a bad time to write symphonies, as most modernists sneered at the idea.
Quote from: Cato on September 27, 2016, 06:50:21 AM
Vyacheslav Ovchinnikov, famous 50 years ago for composing a great score for Sergei Bondarchuk's 8-hour film version of War and Peace, is now almost forgotten.
He composed 4 symphonies, available now only via YouTube or certain listening sites:
The Fourth Symphony:
https://www.youtube.com/v/FzysPktaXmI
A decline I would say from Nos. 1&2, -but interesting to hear nonetheless.
Quote from: Cato on September 27, 2016, 06:50:21 AM
Vyacheslav Ovchinnikov, famous 50 years ago for composing a great score for Sergei Bondarchuk's 8-hour film version of War and Peace, is now almost forgotten.
He composed 4 symphonies, available now only via YouTube or certain listening sites:
The Fourth Symphony:
https://www.youtube.com/v/FzysPktaXmI
I loved that film/movie score and had the LP. It was never, as far as I know,more leased on CD. Likewise I had his fine Second Symphony ( for strings I think) on LP but have never seen a CD of it.
Quote from: Rons_talking on September 28, 2016, 01:40:04 PM
Gian Carlo Menotti composed a symphony in 1976 which is, I believe, unrecorded. When you consider the success of his opera and theatre music as well as the quality of his concerti for violin, piano, and something for cello (I believe), it's hard to imagine the work being bad..Then again, 1976 was a bad time to write symphonies, as most modernists sneered at the idea.
Off the top of my head I can think of several so called modernist composers who wrote symphonies in the 1970's:
Benjamin Frankel (He died in 1973. He composed his 7th and 8th symphonies in the 1970's.)
Frank Wigglesworth
Gunther Schuller
Henri Lazarof
Geoffrey Searle
Karel Husa
Roger Sessions
I have recordings of all of these composers symphonies.
I am sure other members can come up with many more.
Quote from: calyptorhynchus on September 24, 2016, 03:23:57 PM
Which whets one's appetite for the rest. One scandalous thing that I became aware of was that when Diamond's 11th Symphony was premiered in 1992 the conductor, Kurt Masur, took upon himself to cut ten minutes from the finale. I hope when it is recorded those bars are included, I feel, even if the symphony does have longueurs, I'd sooner listen to Diamond's longueurs than many another composer's concise thoughts.
Me too.