Thought I'd start a thread where we can talk about works by well-known composers which rarely get a mention.
To get things rolling, how about Handel's Carmelite Vespers of 1707? What a terrific work! I'll stick out my neck here and say I actually prefer this to his more popular - and far better known - Messiah. It's very much in the Italian mould of the period, and puts me in mind of Vivaldi's Gloria, as well as Bach's Magnificat (in places). There are also sections of antiphon which help give structure and proper context to the work, reminding us that this composition was undertaken as a commission by Cardinal Carlo Colonna to celebrate the festival of Our Lady of Mount Carmel.
For those interested in hearing the work - and I'll certainly recommend that you do - here's the recording I have:
(http://www.virginmegastores.co.uk/content/ebiz/virgin/invt/G./M./s./223161/223161_m.jpg)
It's on the Virgin Veritas label. Rather appropriate, I thought, given the subject matter. ;D
Rossini's opera, William Tell. I've been reading classical music/opera BB's for 14 years and have never heard it discussed. Well, ok maybe just once.
Beethoven's Rage over a lost penny isn't discussed a lot.
people don't discuss Schoenberg's neo-classical works at all!
Mozart's "Kegelstatt" Trio for clarinet, viola, and piano is one of the most beautiful chamber works ever written. It is often overshadowed by the clarinet quintet and clarinet concerto, but this trio is just as sophisticated a piece and was also written specifically for Stadler. It is thought that Mozart played the viola part during performances and one of Mozart's students played the piano part.
The piece BTW was said to have been composed while Mozart was bowling (thus the nickname).
The Nash Ensemble has a great CD with this and other Mozart chamber works on it:
i think Hummel should get more attention, his concertos for violin and piano are fascinating.
Chamber and choral music (particularly lieder) should get more attention.
I think Schubert should get more discussion time, since he wrote 2 overtures in the Italian style.
Quote from: MahlerTitan on June 05, 2007, 05:48:11 PM
i think Hummel should get more attention, his concertos for violin and piano are fascinating.
Agreed. I was listening to this last night and its, indeed, outstanding :)
(http://shop.castleclassics.co.uk/acatalog/8507.jpg)
Quote from: Bonehelm on June 05, 2007, 04:50:46 PM
Beethoven's Rage over a lost penny isn't discussed a lot.
That makes me angry. >:(
Seriously, who do folks like in this work?
In the last 20 years or so, Wilhelm Stenhammar's orchestral music has received a modest amount of attention, but his 6 string quartets have not. Once available on the Caprice label, they are now, so far as I know, completely OOP. Its a shame. They are wonderful works.
As for MahlerTitan's post, I do really like the Schoenberg Cello Concerto after Monn.
Other fine, but infrequently performed works include the Schubert Masses, Prokofiev's Sinfonietta in A, and Schumann's Das Paradies und die Peri.
Quote from: RebLem on June 05, 2007, 08:24:01 PM
Prokofiev's Sinfonietta in A
see, i listened to that, and i didn't like it as much as the classical symphony
Mozart's cantata, "Leck mich im Arsch"
>:D
Schumann's Violin Concerto, written when he was full blown insane.Joachum thought the composition to be morbid and a product of Schumann's insanity. It was first premiered in 1937!
I've got the Kremer/Harnoncourt recording of it; you can definitely hear the insanity of Schumann... what a creepy opening.
What about Chopin's cello sonata?
Prokofiev choral music that is not Alexander Nevsky or Ivan the Terrible. Pieces such as Zdravitsa, the October revolution cantatas, Seven They Are Seven, Ballad for an Unknown Child, and so on. Unfortunately they are usually limited to one or two recordings, and they are probably deleted!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/Nantha/Zdravitsa.jpg)
Quote from: George on June 05, 2007, 07:14:52 PM
That makes me angry. >:(
Seriously, who do folks like in this work?
Not that this work warrants a deep and detailed discussion, but Abbey Simmon's recording (as a filler, obviously) is very good.
I wonder how the music would sound had the amount of money lost been higher. Maybe the limitations of the piano available at the time limit Beethoven to composing only about losing pennies.
Now, my nomination: Bruckner Quintet.
Quote from: op.110 on June 05, 2007, 09:11:21 PM
Schumann's Violin Concerto, written when he was full blown insane.Joachum thought the composition to be morbid and a product of Schumann's insanity. It was first premiered in 1937!
I've got the Kremer/Harnoncourt recording of it; you can definitely hear the insanity of Schumann... what a creepy opening.
Not to forget Schumann's
Andante & Variations for 2 pianos, 2 cellos and 1 horn http://opus100.free.fr/fr/Schumann6.html (http://opus100.free.fr/fr/Schumann6.html)
I believe that Schumann's last works were composed for the piano:
Gesänge der Frühe, (November 1853), one month after the violin Concerto and the Variations that he left unfinished (February 1854).
The Gesänge der Frühe is a beautiful work, not as morbid as that. Five little pieces, very poetic, in special the first and the fourth. The last piece is more depressive, perhaps, very, very sad.
We can find both works in the set of the complete piano works played - superbly - by Karl Engel.
Mozart's violin sonatas don't seem to get a lot of press, despite offering some delightful music. Bruckner's string quintet is the equal of his symphonies and surely one of the most beautiful Romantic-era chamber works but doesn't seem to get a lot of attention. His motets are beautiful, too, but often overlooked in favor of his big choral pieces or--even more so--his symphonies.
Quote from: hornteacher on June 05, 2007, 05:42:25 PM
Mozart's "Kegelstatt" Trio for clarinet, viola, and piano [...]
The Nash Ensemble has a great CD with this [...]
I think I have that around somewhere...from a BRO order...I think...oy, i have too many CDs.
Quote from: Grazioso on June 06, 2007, 03:25:41 AM
His motets are beautiful, too, but often overlooked in favor of his big choral pieces or--even more so--his symphonies.
I'll second that. Lovely works, possibly more interesting (IMO) than Brahms' motets.
Dvorak's Piano Concerto
Beethoven's Christus am Ölberge
Brahms' Serenades
Quote from: Florestan on June 06, 2007, 03:54:29 AM
Dvorak's Piano Concerto
Beethoven's Christus am Ölberge
Brahms' Serenades
I have all three, and confirm that I think them excellent as well as underrated. :)
Quote from: Mark on June 06, 2007, 03:58:42 AM
I have all three, and confirm that I think them excellent as well as underrated. :)
Thanks. :)
Stravinsky, Le baiser de la fée
Prokofiev, Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October Revolution
Schoenberg, Accompaniment to a Film Scene
Quote from: karlhenning on June 06, 2007, 04:21:32 AM
Prokofiev, Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October Revolution
Judging by the title, I imagine this to be a nice propaganda piece. :)
Quote from: Florestan on June 06, 2007, 04:23:14 AM
Judging by the title, I imagine this to be a nice propaganda piece. :)
The matter of the texts aside . . . it's all really fine music. I think it works better than, say, the revised
Fourth Symphony. But that's just me . . . .
Quote from: Mark on June 05, 2007, 04:27:45 PM
how about Handel's Carmelite Vespers of 1707?
I discuss that every day ........ several times per day ..........
Quote from: karlhenning on June 06, 2007, 04:25:03 AM
The matter of the texts aside . . . it's all really fine music. I think it works better than, say, the revised Fourth Symphony. But that's just me . . . .
...and me, and a lot of other Prokofiev-lovers I have met.
I don't think it's in the absolute top rank of his pieces, but it's a truly original work and even now there's nothing quite like it.
Quote from: D Minor on June 06, 2007, 04:33:31 AM
I discuss that every day ........ several times per day ..........
You big silly! ;D
Quote from: karlhenning on June 06, 2007, 04:25:03 AM
The matter of the texts aside . . . it's all really fine music.
As to be expected from Prokofiev. :)
QuoteThe matter of the texts aside . . . it's all really fine music. I think it works better than, say, the revised Fourth Symphony. But that's just me . . . .
It is a very fine piece, but like a number of Prokofiev works, it exists in original and revised forms. I have heard 3 recordings of the piece, the Melodiya recording of 1967 on vinyl with Kondrashin and the Moscow PSO which is the shortened (revised) version of 8 parts, the Chandos CD recording of 1992 with the Philharmonia forces under Neeme Jarvi which is a spectacular recording of the longer version (10 parts) but somehow doesn't quite capture the raw excitement of the Kondrashin recording; and the live BBC recording under Mark Elder which was inferior in every way.
The piece is scored for a huge band of full orchestra, chorus, mixed brass band, accordion ensemble, unusual percussion (e.g siren) and narrator all of which come together during the 'Revolution' section which is Prokofiev at his wildest. On the other hand, it has some really beautiful choral and orchstral writing - so much so that Hollywood composer James Horner nicked the first theme outright for the opening credits music to the Schwarzeneggar film 'Red Heat' and used other parts for the music to 'Land Before Time'.
Quote from: techniquest on June 06, 2007, 07:42:48 AM
It is a very fine piece, but like a number of Prokofiev works, it exists in original and revised forms. I have heard 3 recordings of the piece, the Melodiya recording of 1967 on vinyl with Kondrashin and the Moscow PSO which is the shortened (revised) version of 8 parts
The shortened version is not any revision by the composer, but was the belated premiere of a piece, with texts glorifying Stalin, at a time when Stalin had at last fallen into deserved disgrace.
Brahms piano quartets and cello sonatas
Dvorak piano quartets and string terzetto, sextet
and S quintet op.1
Enescu chamber works
Borodin chamber except his 2 SQ
Mendelssohn viola sonata
Vieuxtemps viola works
Nielsen solo violin works
Elgar chamber works
Saint-Saens chamber works
Bazzini everything he wrote except his famous dance
Cherubini SQs and SQuintet
Malipiero SQs
Honegger chamber works
Kreisler SQ, Paganini first concerto arrangement
and Viennese Rhapsodic Fantasietta
...I can go on and on and on...
Quote from: carlos on June 06, 2007, 07:53:25 AM
Vieuxtemps
Bazzini
Cherubini
Malipiero
Kreisler
Do they qualify as well-known composers? :)
They are, to me ;) ;)
Sibelius chamber works...
Sibelius piano works :o
Any of his non-orchestral is very good and ofeten looked over.
Arnold Schoenberg's works without opus numbers, for instance, his string quartet in D major (1897)
Quote from: Florestan on June 06, 2007, 07:55:32 AM
Do they qualify as well-known composers? :)
Cherubini and Vieuxtemps certainly do in my book. :)
Quote from: Greta on June 06, 2007, 08:04:20 AM
Sibelius chamber works...
Sibelius piano works :o
Any of his non-orchestral is very good and ofeten looked over.
Seconded.
I also think that Debussy's Cello Sonata doesn't get the air-time that it should (on radio, I mean). This recording is an absolute stunner, from it's finely shaped and superbly delivered opening onwards:
(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/41PKYVJSFFL._SS500_.jpg)
Blimey, this is the sort of question one could spend all day answering. I'm going to confine myself to Ravel, always one of my very favourite composer, though I'm not sure why he sprang to mind when I read this question - perhaps it's that he has a relatively small oeuvre of which the orchestral and piano pieces are best known, but which is perhaps shown at its most sparkling, original, insightful and touching in the chamber and vocal repertoire:
Trois Poemes de Stephane Mallarme
Chansons Madecasses
Histoires Naturelles
Sonata for Violin and Cello
Piano Trio (is this little-discussed? - it is certainly under-discussed)
major masterpieces all. The two operas are too, not sure if they qualify, and I'd really love to add some more of the songs - the Noelle des jouets and the Epigrammes de Clement Marot specifically.
Mahler's Das klagende Lied, in my book, is not discussed nearly as much as it ought to be. Whether or not it's "rarely discussed" is for greater minds than mine. However, it seems that his symphonies and song-cycles get more attention than the one cantata (unless you count the 8th) he wrote. It is heavily revised and, still, obviously from someone younger than the Mahler of the 7th or the 9th; however, it is still quite nice.
I'd be inclined to throw Bruckner's Helgoland into the mix, as it is lovely, dramatic, and all that; however, I tend to think that all of Bruckner's stuff is under-discussed, given his importance and wide-ranging contributions to the late-Romantic milieu.
Brahms - Quartets for four solo voices and piano (various opus #'s).
Handel - Practically any stage work other than Messiah.
Prokofiev - Cello sonata.
Ravel - Kaddisch...only the most beautiful song ever written.
Zemlinsky - Anything.
Rimsky-Korsakov - Anything other than Scheherazade (his operas rock!).
Bartok - Violin duos.
Schoenberg - Jacob's Ladder.
Quote from: donwyn on June 06, 2007, 08:24:52 PM
Brahms - Quartets for four solo voices and piano (various opus #'s).
Handel - Practically any stage work other than Messiah.
Prokofiev - Cello sonata.
Ravel - Kaddisch...only the most beautiful song ever written.
Zemlinsky - Anything.
Rimsky-Korsakov - Anything other than Scheherazade (his operas rock!).
Bartok - Violin duos.
Schoenberg - Jacob's Ladder.
Actually Korsakov is very well known for his Flight of the bumble bee as well.
Quote from: Bonehelm on June 06, 2007, 09:13:47 PM
Actually Korsakov is very well known for his Flight of the bumble bee as well.
Bu why, oh why, do his symphonies not get more attention? Not towering masterpieces, certainly, but quite enjoyable nonetheless.
Quote from: MahlerTitan on June 05, 2007, 04:58:28 PM
people don't discuss Schoenberg's neo-classical works at all!
Or Mahler's.
Quote from: MahlerTitan on June 05, 2007, 04:58:28 PM
people don't discuss Schoenberg's neo-classical works at all!
Yes, the concerti after
Monn and
Handel are great fun!
Quote from: karlhenning on June 07, 2007, 04:39:22 AM
Yes, the concerti after Monn and Handel are great fun!
Not that they're pure neo-classicism, but so are the suite for string orchestra and the variations for wind band.
.
Liszt: Faust Symphony and Dante Symphony
Schumann's Three Romances for oboe and piano. One of the very, very few oboe solo pieces by a major Romantic composer. :D
Carl Nielsen's woodwind quintet and Sixth Symphony.
Samuel Barber's Summer Music for woodwind quintet.
Howard Hanson's symphonies (except for #2, "Romantic").
Alan Hovhaness' Symphony #50, "Mount St. Helens."
(Yes, Barber, Hanson and Hovhaness are major composers. ;D)
Quote from: jochanaan on June 07, 2007, 10:45:33 AM
Schumann's Three Romances for oboe and piano. One of the very, very few oboe solo pieces by a major Romantic composer. :D
Lovely works. :)
Quote from: jochanaan on June 07, 2007, 10:45:33 AM
Schumann's Three Romances for oboe and piano. One of the very, very few oboe solo pieces by a major Romantic composer. :D
Seconded. Splendid music!
Quote from: MahlerTitan on June 07, 2007, 10:52:25 AM
Mahler wrote Neo-classical works?
Yes, during his early Gluckian phase he wrote the Scena, recitativo and aria
Iphigenia in Stuttgart for castrato in drag, fortepiano and string trio. Unfortunately it was never performed during his lifetime due to a lack of male volunteers willing to tackle the physically demanding solo part. Mahler gave up on neo-classicism at that point and turned instead to bombastic, overblown works employing thousands and lasting for hours without a "comfort" break (or so it seemed to many who, squirming nervously in their seats, grimly cursed that glass of beer they had in the lobby before the concert). His symphonies caused such an uproar the Late Romantic era was prematurely cancelled by popular demand in 1911.
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 07, 2007, 03:48:11 PM
Yes, during his early Gluckian phase he wrote the Scena, recitativo and aria Iphigenia in Stuttgart for castrato in drag, fortepiano and string trio. Unfortunately it was never performed during his lifetime due to a lack of male volunteers willing to tackle the physically demanding solo part...
I have read that Mahler narrowly escaped being FORCED to sing that part--as a castrato! :o ;) ;D (In case it's not abundantly clear, THIS IS A JOKE! ;D)
Quote from: jochanaan on June 07, 2007, 06:04:34 PM
I have read that Mahler narrowly escaped being FORCED to sing that part--as a castrato! :o ;) ;D (In case it's not abundantly clear, THIS IS A JOKE! ;D)
oh, balls! i thought it was serious. ;)
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Webern's piano quintet and Im Sommerwind.
Quote from: Mark on June 06, 2007, 01:22:06 PM
Cherubini and Vieuxtemps certainly do in my book. :)
Seconded.
I also think that Debussy's Cello Sonata doesn't get the air-time that it should (on radio, I mean). This recording is an absolute stunner, from it's finely shaped and superbly delivered opening onwards:
(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/41PKYVJSFFL._SS500_.jpg)
This is an absolutely astonishing disc - contains some of the finest cello playing I have ever heard. It's actually not my favourite version of the Debussy (athough it is superb - Tortelier, Gendron and Slava do it for me), but I think the real gem is the Poulenc cello Sonata. I've never heard it more convincingly or more beautifully played than on this recording - ne of the great cello works. (Fournier's version may seem to be the ideal one on paper, given that he premiered it with the composer, but this was early in his career, and as many cellists have noted, Fournier's recording legacy improved with age - this is an early recording). Sorry I know this is off topic.
I remember reading from some eminent scholar once that while he agreed that there were many great unknown works by unknown composers, the well known composers' unknown works were usually unknown for a reason. (I wish I could remember who it was). Not sure I agree, but it made me laugh!
Saint-Saens' La muse et le poete is an interesting double concerto (vilin, cello and orchestra). Not sure its great, but deserves mentioning more often.
Loads of Faure too. Playing the piano trio was one of the best chamber experiences I've had.
Quote from: PSmith08 on June 06, 2007, 08:09:52 PM
I'd be inclined to throw Bruckner's Helgoland into the mix, as it is lovely, dramatic, and all that; however, I tend to think that all of Bruckner's stuff is under-discussed, given his importance and wide-ranging contributions to the late-Romantic milieu.
Seconded.
Helgoland is the first work that came to mind when I saw the subject of this thread. A late work, and a very good one, it was composed during the same time Bruckner was struggling to finish the Ninth. Another rarely discussed, and rarely recorded Bruckner orchestral/choral gem is
Psalm 150.
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 08, 2007, 04:45:13 AM
Seconded. Helgoland is the first work that came to mind when I saw the subject of this thread. A late work, and a very good one, it was composed during the same time Bruckner was struggling to finish the Ninth. Another rarely discussed, and rarely recorded Bruckner orchestral/choral gem is Psalm 150.
Sarge
Oooooh! I don't know these. Recordings available? (drools)
Quote from: jochanaan on June 08, 2007, 07:06:28 AM
Oooooh! I don't know these. Recordings available? (drools)
Psalm 150 is one of the fillers to the DG Originals recording of Jochum conducting the
Te deum. (There's also a bunch of motets on the disc, making it very valuable Bruckneriana.)
Thanks, Edward! I'll have to check it out when my income begins incoming a little more. :-\
Has anyone mentioned Haydn's and Mozart's Violin Concertos?
Quote from: jochanaan on June 08, 2007, 07:06:28 AM
Oooooh! I don't know these. Recordings available? (drools)
Helgoland is the filler (and a substantial one!) on Bareboim's Teldec (Warner) recording of Bruckner's First. It's included in the box set too.
Sarge
Mozart k266
Burning sugar, refined but spilling sadly stickily all over things.
And that's just the 1st movement, expressing loneliness...yet becoming quite calvalier about it come the 2nd movement...hopeful gaiety and love of Light.
Quote from: jochanaan on June 08, 2007, 07:06:28 AM
Oooooh! I don't know these. Recordings available? (drools)
Operashare has an out of print rip of a CD with it on: http://rapidshare.com/files/29541402/Wagner_and_Bruckner.rar
I remember you mentioning you have a slow connection, but may be worth snagging if you have some spare time.
I also second the recommendation of the Jochum disc, it is excellent.