GMG Classical Music Forum

Thought I'd revive an old poll of mine on this new forum. It got some interesting responses last time - I'm sure it'll get many more now that we also have many new members.


It occurs to me that we classical CD collectors tend to fall into a number of different categories. It might be interesting to conduct a survey of forum members about which one of the following six categories they believe they belong to. These categories were originally devised by me as a bit of fun. They're certainly NOT exhaustive (please use the 'Other' option if you wish to post your own category and give us an explanation of why you belong to it), and are only intended as broad generalisations.

As before, I look forward to reading your posts on this and seeing how the poll develops. There were 60 votes cast last time. :)

Incidentally, I'm the EXPLORATIVE type!


:-\ OBSESSIVE

This type just doesn't know when to stop. Having 16 different recordings of an obscure work - as well as countless more of the core repertoire - is never enough, and this type will continue to collect dozens more interpretations. Point out their obssession, and they'll give you as many good arguments as they have copies of Sibelius' complete symphonies ... which is a lot.

:) COMPREHENSIVE

Once this type identifies a composer or composers whose work they love, they'll move heaven and earth to collect such composers' entire output on disc. They may well LIKE other composers; but they'll only show a devotion to collecting the complete works of those they LOVE. They may also border on obssession in acquiring as many different recordings of works by their preferred composers.

0:) DEFINITIVE

The first of two discerning types. They won't add any CDs to their collection unless various trusted reviews and their own listening experience convinces them that such discs might be considered 'definitive'. If they already own what they consider to be a first-rate recording, and this is then surpassed for them by another, they'll often debate whether to keep the former disc in their collection.

??? EXPLORATIVE

Such types certainly love great recordings and performances, but are more interested in collecting the broadest range of musical styles and works in an effort to experience as much as possible before they meet their maker. They'll be tempted by the latest recording of a work they already own and love, and might even buy it. But they'll almost certainly get sidetracked by something more obscure ...

;) SELECTIVE

The second discerning type. These collectors don't consider themselves 'serious' at all. Instead, they prefer to cherry pick only those CDs that really spark their interest. Having a complete symphony cycle doesn't necessarily interest them, if only No. 7 pleases their ear. And when it comes to particular recordings, they'll go with gut feeling as often as they'll take the advice of a good review.

:( IMPULSIVE

This type buys infrequently and without too much regard for what they're buying. They see a work by almost any composer that looks interesting, and without taking a moment more to think about it, they're on their way to the checkout. It doesn't bother them in the least that they'll probably not listen to their purchases above a handful of times.

Quote from: Mark on June 08, 2007, 02:41:19 PM
[;) SELECTIVE

The second discerning type. These collectors don't consider themselves 'serious' at all. Instead, they prefer to cherry pick only those CDs that really spark their interest. Having a complete symphony cycle doesn't necessarily interest them, if only No. 7 pleases their ear. And when it comes to particular recordings, they'll go with gut feeling as often as they'll take the advice of a good review.

Probably this. I don't consider my collection or anything else about me for that matter 'serious' at all.

 0:)DEFINITIVE

The first of two discerning types. They won't add any CDs to their collection unless various trusted reviews and their own listening experience convinces them that such discs might be considered 'definitive'. If they already own what they consider to be a first-rate recording, and this is then surpassed for them by another, they'll often debate whether to keep the former disc in their collection.

A cross between this and  ;)SELECTIVE

:)

Great question. I consider myself an "explorative" collector with leanings towards "obsessive"! I've only been collecting for five years and have accumulated around 200 albums in that period. That might not be a lot for some, but for me that's a pretty healthy sum, considering I'm still a student (phd candidate). For many years I collected film music (and still do), but slowly I began exploring classical composers such as Bruckner, R. Strauss, Mahler, Beethoven, Brahms...and the list kept growing. In some sense, each composer linked with another that I *had* to explore. Once I was bit by a certain composer, I investigated a large portion of their works to see what appealed to me.

I believe I read here once that classical music collecting is a wonderful hobby because there's always something new to discover: a recording, a composer, a style. I still feel I've only scratched the surface...and look forward to listening in the years to come.

Right now I'm working my way through Robert Simpsons' symphonies and am really enjoying them.

Thanks to all so far for sharing.

Quote from: Mametesque on June 08, 2007, 03:04:57 PM
Right now I'm working my way through Robert Simpsons' symphonies and am really enjoying them.

Not familiar with Simpson. Which symphony would you recommend as a starting point?

Impoverished-explorative!

I voted "Other", because I would classify myself as

:-X  ERRATIC

My "collection" (if I can dignify it with that name) has both depth (in some places) and breadth (in others) - but damned if I can see any consistency to it.

Explorative is probably the best description for me; my overall goal is to hear as much variety as possible.  I try to collect examples of as many different time periods and styles as possible, and I have amassed a collection of thousands of CDs and records in the process.  This extends outside of classical music; in the broad, vague genre of world music, my pattern is also explorative.  I have collected music from as many countries, regions, and ethnic groups as I can possibly find.

Two of the other categories fit to some degree.  When I find a particular piece that I really like, I border on obsessive.  While I don't, as a general rule, collect multiple performances (beyond two or three), I have collected numerous performances of a few pieces.  The latest in this category are Mahler's Third and Fourth Symphonies, and looking to the future, I see the possibility that Elgar's symphonies might get into this category.  Past examples (which may become active again at any time) are Bach's Brandenburg Concertos, Beethoven's symphonies, and Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition.

At times, the impulsive label also fits.  It isn't entirely unusual for me to see something in a store and buy it on impulse.  As would be expected, results are mixed, but I have picked up some of my favorite recordings this way, so I will likely keep doing it.  I'm especially apt to do this when going through cheap used CDs or LPs; when the price is low, I am more willing to buy recordings without thinking about it much.

Heather

I'm half way between "Selective" and "Definitive"

Guess I'm the only "Comprehensive" in the list so far. That's OK, it's what works for me. While I don't suffer from "multiple recorditis", the only duplicate performances I have ARE in the composers that I am comprehensive with, so I guess it still applies.

Did I ever mention that I have the complete works of Mozart & Beethoven?  And I don't mean the big box set, either... ;D

8)

I impulsively purchase selectively explored CDs... :)

Basically, I'm all over the place with opera, but for everything I buy, I thoroughly seek out reviews and listen to clips (or whole albums from the library or record store if available) because I don't want to spend money on something that I'll listen to once then want to give away. And I like to explore a variety of conductors and performers for a given work... I have duplicates many operas whether they be in DVD or CD because different takes keep them fresh for me... and as far as symphonic music goes, I can never get enough of Bruckner. Multiple readings of his multitude of versions keep me thoroughly engaged.

Chipmunk.

I store up CDs into a huge pile, and then, when the time is right, I listen. 

Store up ......  Listen. 

Store up ....... Listen.

Selective - I started buying only Mahler's music.

 :) COMPREHENSIVE - mostly. I am trying to acquire a complete collection of J. S. Bach - but I don't exclude other composers. Lately I'm concentrating on the cantatas and have maybe half his cantata output (with many multiple versions); the only genre that isn't represented well in my Bach collection is the organ works (they just don't flip my switches as much).

Like at least one other person on this thread, I fall somewhere between the two 'discerning' types. While I am definetely interested in broadening my collection, I will rarely buy before I have read several reviews, consulted a trusted friend (either here or elswhere), and have subjected it to a critical listen. So, I'm probably closer to the first of those two types, Definitive.  :)

I voted explorative. But since I can't afford to buy multiple recordings, I try to be "definitive" with my choice of recording as I explore the works of as many composers as possible.

I'm both an explorer and a consummate discerner. I like to know what's out there down to the last minutiae, but once i'm satisfied with my survey i engage in extensive downsizing.

I think I am somewhere in one of the final three categories, impulsive, selective, explorative.  I just can't really dicide.  My interests in music are more than classical and include jazz, pop and pretty much anything I can't live without.  I turned the big 60 last year, and I'm still trying to figure myself out.

Selective. I always try to buy Cd with interpreters I usually like, works of value that are missing in my collection, or do it because of critics I saw and trust.
But sometimes I discover too late that the work or the interpreter are very inferior to what I had expected. In this case, I give the CD to friends less exigents.

Where is the "All of the Above" button? Without that, you are ruling quite a few people I know here out of the poll!


As for me, mostly explorative. Depending on my mood and financial situation, I may explore obsessively, comprehensively, definitively, selectively or impulsively.

Very much impulsive at the moment. When I'm not spending all my money on unimportant things like food, then I'll probably move into obsessive.

Exploring type, of course I am, you all knew that right? ;D

Quote from: Harry on June 09, 2007, 03:28:28 AM
Exploring type, of course I am, you all knew that right? ;D

*wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge* *say no more*

Quote from: Mark on June 08, 2007, 02:41:19 PM
0:) DEFINITIVE

The first of two discerning types. They won't add any CDs to their collection unless various trusted reviews and their own listening experience convinces them that such discs might be considered 'definitive'. If they already own what they consider to be a first-rate recording, and this is then surpassed for them by another, they'll often debate whether to keep the former disc in their collection.

Basically the "Definitive" type with some "Comprehensive" and "Selective" mixed in, because I tend to go for particular composers and trust my gut feeling in selecting recordings. However, I don't care for the multiple recordings nor for the obscure, so "Obsessive" and "Explorative" obviously do not apply.

Q

I need to read that OP more closely...

I think at any given time on any given day any one of those words can describe my buying habits.  Call me obsessive-comprehensive, selective subtype with strong explorative-definitive tendencies, and characterized by poor impulse control.   >:D

I started an Explorative,

then Definitive,

now I'm basically a Comprehensive with composers/performers I love and Definitive with those I like.   

Quote from: Bunny on June 09, 2007, 09:25:56 AM
I think at any given time on any given day any one of those words can describe my buying habits.  Call me obsessive-comprehensive, selective subtype with strong explorative-definitive tendencies, and characterized by poor impulse control.   >:D

We all display characteristics of many personality types at one point or another, but the point is to select the dominant one.

All but Selective and Definitive.  Just depends on my mood.

I'm a mix between explorative, definitive and obsessive. I always read plenty of reviews and forum opinions before making purchases, and I use quite some time identifying forum individuals/reviewers with tastes quite similar to mine. I hate to buy a really bad CD/DVD/book. Life is just too short. But a bad purchase hardly happens anymore.

Quote from: rubio on June 09, 2007, 10:59:46 AM
I hate to buy a really bad CD/DVD/book. Life is just too short. But a bad purchase hardly happens anymore.

Agreed.  :D

  I'm definitive...no question about it...I want great recordings...I need to have great recordings: 

   1) Solti Ring (Wagner)
   2) Karajan 1963 Beethoven Symphony Cycle
   3) Gulda Beethoven Piano cycle
   4) Karajan Der Rosenkavelier
   5) Rifkin's Favorite Bach's Cantatas
   6) La Petite Band's Bach Mass in B Minor
   7) Solti's Un Ballo in Maschera (Verdi)
   8 ) Bernstein's Late Symphonies (Mozart)
   9) Karajan's Die Meistersingers von Nurnberg
  10) Chung's Otello (Verdi)

   to name a few......

   marvin

The 'selective' description fit me much better than any of the others. (with a hint of 'definitive') At least nowadays, might change..

Explorative/Comprehensive

Quote from: Steve on June 09, 2007, 09:48:52 AM
We all display characteristics of many personality types at one point or another, but the point is to select the dominant one.

Yes, but I've always had trouble prioritizing and I don't think any one of the various types is dominant overall.  My spending habits vary radically from day to day.  Of course, I can be something of a cheapskate, but that wasn't one of the types.  I could as easily say that a good price is the greatest stimulus to some of my buying decisions, and still not get it mostly right.  I'm a lot more complex than any one type.  Color me in shades of gray rather than black or white.

Thought I'd bump this, as we've had a fair few new members recently. ;)

    I'm mostly Selective, because I have so many goals I only partially fulfill any of them. Also I'm attracted to shiny packages. _:)

I think I'm somewhere between Definitive and Comprehensive, with some OCD tendencies.  I have a list of "essential" works by the usual canon of composers and I am in the process of amassing a collection with representation from all the works.  I generally like to have at least two or three contrasting versions of each work, say a classic/historic version, and a more modern version.  I  also like to have at least one HIP version for classical and earlier repertoire. My preference is for LP when possible.  Of course, I still make room for some of my more idiosyncratic interests, such as lute music and pre-Baroque vocal.

I'm actually quite close to having this phase of my collecting complete.  Afterwards, I suspect I may move over to Explorative.  That, or just slow down my music buying altogether and take the time to really listen to what I have.

Quote from: Mark on November 06, 2007, 02:53:38 AM
Thought I'd bump this, as we've had a fair few new members recently. ;)

  Yes thank you for that Mark, this thead needed revisiting and as usual I am still definitive but I have changed a bit and have become a bit explorative (During the past couple of months I have or am in the process of discovering the following new composers: Sibelius, Bruckner, and Debussy) and am looking at adding a few Anglo-American composers to my collection in the coming months as well.


  marvin

   

Quote from: Shrunk on November 06, 2007, 04:37:15 AM
I think I'm somewhere between Definitive and Comprehensive, with some OCD tendencies.  I have a list of "essential" works by the usual canon of composers and I am in the process of amassing a collection with representation from all the works.  I generally like to have at least two or three contrasting versions of each work, say a classic/historic version, and a more modern version.  I  also like to have at least one HIP version for classical and earlier repertoire. My preference is for LP when possible.  Of course, I still make room for some of my more idiosyncratic interests, such as lute music and pre-Baroque vocal.

I'm actually quite close to having this phase of my collecting complete.  Afterwards, I suspect I may move over to Explorative.  That, or just slow down my music buying altogether and take the time to really listen to what I have.

I began my collecting in much the same way. If I could do it all over again, I would have followed my own musical taste, rather than the tastes of others (essential works.) Sure, I found a lot of stuff that way, but I also amassed a lot of CDs that I don't listen to, tying up money that could have spent on CDs that I am likely to listen to more often.  :)

Definitely, definitely impulsive.  If I stumble upon a symphony from 1850-1950-ish from a composer I've never heard of, I must have it.

Quote from: George on November 06, 2007, 05:16:37 AM
I began my collecting in much the same way. If I could do it all over again, I would have followed my own musical taste, rather than the tastes of others (essential works.) Sure, I found a lot of stuff that way, but I also amassed a lot of CDs that I don't listen to, tying up money that could have spent on CDs that I am likely to listen to more often.  :)

 George, unlike you and Shrunk I have never followed the tastes of others (essential works).  I have always followed my own tastes.  From the opposite end of the spectrum I can safely tell you that my approach has restricted my exposure to music. Now 3 years down the road I have amassed a collection of music that I can not claim to be very diverse: for example my collection of Anglo-American composers is practically non-existent (I hadn't even heard of Finzi untill Mark mentioned him to me), I do not have any works from the following composers: Schubert, Schumman,Stravinsky, Shosty, and my baroque composer collection is basically J.S.Bach, very little of anything else.  In short, its certainly isn't greener on the other side of the fence  :-\.


 marvin    

Quote from: marvinbrown on November 06, 2007, 05:31:53 AM
 George, unlike you and Shrunk I have never followed the tastes of others (essential works).  I have always followed my own tastes.  From the opposite end of the spectrum I can safely tell you that my approach has restricted my exposure to music. Now 3 years down the road I have amassed a collection of music that I can not claim to be very diverse: for example my collection of Anglo-American composers is practically non-existent (I hadn't even heard of Finzi untill Mark mentioned him to me),

Me too.  ;D I actually just got a Finzi disc the other day.

Quote
I do not have any works from the following composers: Schubert, Schumman,Stravinsky, Shosty, and my baroque composer collection is basically J.S.Bach, very little of anything else.  In short, its certainly isn't greener on the other side of the fence  :-\.
 marvin    

Perhaps a moderate dose of each, explore to hear more composers for awhile, then look closer at the ones that peak your interest.  :)

BTW, no Schubert NOR Shostakovich?! For shame.  ;D

Quote from: George on November 06, 2007, 05:37:56 AM
Me too.  ;D I actually just got a Finzi disc the other day.

Which one?

Quote from: George on November 06, 2007, 05:37:56 AM
Me too.  ;D I actually just got a Finzi disc the other day.

  This one came highly recommended by Mark and will be my introduction to this composer:

  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41S69YM6SVL._SS500_.jpg)

  marvin

Quote from: Mark on November 06, 2007, 05:40:40 AM
Which one?

You know, that Naxos one with the concertos.  ;)   

Quote from: marvinbrown on November 06, 2007, 05:42:44 AM
  This one came highly recommended by Mark and will be my introduction to this composer:

  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41S69YM6SVL._SS500_.jpg)

  marvin

Indeed that's the one I got, too.  :)

Check PM.  8)

What type of collector? Fanatical! >:D

I'm mostly the obsessive type, but some of the impulsive, too.  I do own 18 complete Beethoven symphony sets, and 19 additional recordings of the Beethoven 9th, for example, but I am proud to say not one of them is by Herbert von Karajan.  I do have a copy of his 1963 interpretation of the Eroica, was is an exception to my generally low opinion of his work. 

I am not out to get every set of Beethoven symphonies, but there are a few things I do like to be a completist about.  I do want every set of the Shostakovich quartets and symphonies, for example, and am well along to acquiring them.  I own about 10 recordings of his piano quintet, one of my very favorite works. 

The situation is complicated by the fact that no one else in my family likes classical music, particularly, so I have it in my will that my collection, upon my death, goes to the public radio station in Garden City, KS.  I have begun to collect, occasionally, with that in mind, getting works or performances I think they would want, even though I am not necessarily particularly interested.  This is particularly true of opera, which is outside, basically, my primary sphere of interest.

Quote from: RebLem on November 07, 2007, 01:25:54 AM
I'm mostly the obsessive type, but some of the impulsive, too.  I do own 18 complete Beethoven symphony sets, and 19 additional recordings of the Beethoven 9th, for example, but I am proud to say not one of them is by Herbert von Karajan.   I do have a copy of his 1963 interpretation of the Eroica, was is an exception to my generally low opinion of his work. 

   :o Wow you and I couldn't be more different if we tried RebLem.  As I mentioned earlier in my post I am a definitive collector.  I only own one complete Beethoven Symphony Cycle (yes- Karajan 1963 with the BPO which in my opinion is definitive)  Plus you collect operas for altruistic purposes, which I admire,  yet have no interest in them while I on the other hand can't live without opera. Opera is my primary passion.  I guess we are a diverse bunch at GMG  :).

  marvin

Quote from: RebLem on November 07, 2007, 01:25:54 AM
I'm mostly the obsessive type, but some of the impulsive, too.  I do own 18 complete Beethoven symphony sets, and 19 additional recordings of the Beethoven 9th, for example, but I am proud to say not one of them is by Herbert von Karajan.  I do have a copy of his 1963 interpretation of the Eroica, was is an exception to my generally low opinion of his work. 

You are such a (what was the word you used on me) such a THURD, to ignore the Karajan recordings, and being proud about that, well...

Quote from: RebLem on November 07, 2007, 01:25:54 AM
This is particularly true of opera, which is outside, basically, my primary sphere of interest.

And outside of mine, too.

These days both Explorative and Selective, although I do read what others think on this board and reviews from all over the place, including MusicWeb! ;D

It does help.

What is so wrong with Karajan? He seems universally unpopular whichever forums one uses. Ok, he has occasionally applied the same brushstrokes to Vivaldi as he would to Brahms, thus rendering Vivaldi... well not Vivaldi anymore. But I still see the worth in that extreme interpretation. It's just another take. But to universally damn him seems churlish, I have some wonderful recordings by him.

Quote from: Great Gable on November 07, 2007, 06:46:41 AM
What is so wrong with Karajan? He seems universally unpopular whichever forums one uses. Ok, he has occasionally applied the same brushstrokes to Vivaldi as he would to Brahms, thus rendering Vivaldi... well not Vivaldi anymore. But I still see the worth in that extreme interpretation. It's just another take. But to universally damn him seems churlish, I have some wonderful recordings by him.

I guess some conductors (and artists) just go in and out of fashion. :-\

Quote from: Great Gable on November 07, 2007, 06:46:41 AM
What is so wrong with Karajan? He seems universally unpopular whichever forums one uses. Ok, he has occasionally applied the same brushstrokes to Vivaldi as he would to Brahms, thus rendering Vivaldi... well not Vivaldi anymore. But I still see the worth in that extreme interpretation. It's just another take. But to universally damn him seems churlish, I have some wonderful recordings by him.

Many folks on this board have praised a number of Karajan recordings.  Personally, there are way too many excellent conductors to get hung up over a small number of them.

Quote from: Great Gable on November 07, 2007, 06:46:41 AM
What is so wrong with Karajan? He seems universally unpopular whichever forums one uses. Ok, he has occasionally applied the same brushstrokes to Vivaldi as he would to Brahms, thus rendering Vivaldi... well not Vivaldi anymore. But I still see the worth in that extreme interpretation. It's just another take. But to universally damn him seems churlish, I have some wonderful recordings by him.

Karajan has a vociferous fan base. And it's all I can do sometimes to keep from being buried by the onslaught of affection.

It wouldn't be so bad if the praise were confined to the average/routine accolade but at times threads can quite literally become log-jammed with Karajan hyperbole, things like "no one even comes close" or "supreme achievement not to be surpassed" or "superior to all others" and such. And on and on for post after post...

A person can feel backed into a corner sometimes as it gets to looking eerily like a Karajan feeding frenzy. What's a hapless non-Karajan fan to do?

Bypass them? Well, I'm learning...

Quote from: donwyn on November 07, 2007, 07:32:51 PM
Karajan has a vociferous fan base. And it's all I can do sometimes to keep from being buried by the onslaught of affection.

It wouldn't be so bad if the praise were confined to the average/routine accolade but at times threads can quite literally become log-jammed with Karajan hyperbole, things like "no one even comes close" or "supreme achievement not to be surpassed" or "superior to all others" and such. And on and on for post after post...

A person can feel backed into a corner sometimes as it gets to looking eerily like a Karajan feeding frenzy. What's a hapless non-Karajan fan to do?

Bypass them? Well, I'm learning...

To be honest, and even though I am very much the Karajan "fanboy" myself (see: Your First Classical "hero", etc.), I don't specifically recall using terms such as "definite", or "so far unsurpassed" exclusively for Herbert von Karajan recordings that I consider to fit that description.

But it might be just me. ::)

There's been another thread on this subject, however, and so I won't get in an argument about it in this one. ;)

What type of collector am I? A completist in that I've been building up all the core repertoire so I can explore it, have it on hand for reference, and build up a good understanding of the main currents of classical music history. Plus, most if it is considered great for good reason! I've also been collecting the complete symphony cycles of just about everyone since that's my favorite classical genre. I'm not a completist/obsessive type where it comes to multiple recordings of the same work: I rarely own more than one or two recordings of a piece.

I'm an explorer in that I love to try out music off the beaten path--and, man, have I discovered some awesome stuff outside the big names!

Re: Finzi, here's a wonderful, highly regarded disc:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21UTNTnEMyL._AA130_.jpg)

Clarinet concerto, Severn Rhapsody, etc.

Quote from: Grazioso on November 08, 2007, 03:56:07 AM
Re: Finzi, here's a wonderful, highly regarded disc:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21UTNTnEMyL._AA130_.jpg)

Clarinet concerto, Severn Rhapsody, etc.

Can't praise this highly enough. Another top Finzi recommendation. :)

Quote from: Great Gable on November 07, 2007, 06:46:41 AM
What is so wrong with Karajan? He seems universally unpopular whichever forums one uses. Ok, he has occasionally applied the same brushstrokes to Vivaldi as he would to Brahms, thus rendering Vivaldi... well not Vivaldi anymore. But I still see the worth in that extreme interpretation. It's just another take. But to universally damn him seems churlish, I have some wonderful recordings by him.

I do not think so but he does generate a vociferous debate that other, dead, conductors do not.

Personally, I believe he made a number of recordings that will be difficult to match let alone surpass.

However, his card-carrying Nazi past and his beliefs and attitudes tend to antagonise many.

Quote from: Hector on November 08, 2007, 05:59:49 AM

Personally, I believe he made a number of recordings that will be difficult to match let alone surpass.

  Yes and the Beethoven Symphony Cycle with the BPO 1963 is among those recordings.


  marvin

Quote from: Hector on November 08, 2007, 05:59:49 AM


However, his card-carrying Nazi past and his beliefs and attitudes tend to antagonise many.

That's a very easy but somewhat tenuous reason but I'm sure that's often the case.

Quote from: Great Gable on November 07, 2007, 06:46:41 AM
What is so wrong with Karajan? He seems universally unpopular whichever forums one uses. Ok, he has occasionally applied the same brushstrokes to Vivaldi as he would to Brahms, thus rendering Vivaldi... well not Vivaldi anymore.

I thought that Karajan was disliked by some (and not just those who prefer HIP performances) because he could often turn the works he conducted into overly lush, homogenised 'walls of sound'. To dislike him simply for being a member of the Nazi party is as ridiculous as dismissing the compositional accomplishments of Wagner because of his anti-semetic views. ::)

^That's why I assumed he was disliked. Sure, that is valid when that interpretation is applied to the wrong works (Vivaldi etc) but when in context it he can sound wonderful. It does seem odd to vilify him with on such grounds. I judge on relative performance not reputation. Even my Furtwangler can be over the top.

Quote from: Mark on November 08, 2007, 01:31:51 PM
I thought that Karajan was disliked by some (and not just those who prefer HIP performances) because he could often turn the works he conducted into overly lush, homogenised 'walls of sound'. To dislike him simply for being a member of the Nazi party is as ridiculous as dismissing the compositional accomplishments of Wagner because of his anti-semetic views. ::)

Not to mention he was one of their less-enthusiastic members, who made fun of his "colleagues" on more than one occasion. Especially when compared to musicians like Bohm, Karajan seems entirely by-the-way, as far as his Nazi party membership was concerned. :o

(And let me note that there is an excellent account of all this in Richard Osborne's book, "Herbert von Karajan: A Life in Music", if anyone's interested; including the full transcript of his later "de-Nazification" (sic) trial. :))

Quote from: Mark on November 08, 2007, 01:31:51 PM
To dislike him simply for being a member of the Nazi party is as ridiculous as dismissing the compositional accomplishments of Wagner because of his anti-semetic views. ::)

I don't know much about HvK's history and therefore can't comment on that, but why is it ridiculous to dislike someone for being a Nazi? If there were ever a good cause for animosity and disdain, that's it. If a significant composer or conductor belonged to the KKK, would that not bother you? Or is that a sin you're willing to forgive and forget so you could enjoy his music-making?

And being a tepid Nazi isn't much of an excuse: remember that many left or did not join or even actively resisted.

Quote from: Grazioso on November 09, 2007, 03:34:50 AM
I don't know much about HvK's history and therefore can't comment on that, but why is it ridiculous to dislike someone for being a Nazi? If there were ever a good cause for animosity and disdain, that's it. If a significant composer or conductor belonged to the KKK, would that not bother you? Or is that a sin you're willing to forgive and forget so you could enjoy his music-making?

And being a tepid Nazi isn't much of an excuse: remember that many left or did not join or even actively resisted.

Because being a member of the party was just that - a membership, and one which was foisted upon the population. Of course not everyone joined but purely being a member does not imply any wrong doing on the part of that member. If any Nazi party member was guilty of war crimes he was brought to justice in some shape of form.
I still hear people railing aginst Furtwangler and he wasn't a member. They dislike the fact that he remained in Germany for the duration. Often these things are just an easy excuse to opine a dislike for. People will always find some reason if they are that way inclined. It is the nature of mankind to hate.

Fifty years down the line and to still hold that against someone is folly. What happened to the spirit of forgiveness? Should we dislike all Germans still? I know some who do, which is really sad.

Personally I do not care about anyone's politics, however controversial they may be. It is up to the individual to make that assessment.

Quote from: Great Gable on November 09, 2007, 03:47:11 AM
Because being a member of the party was just that - a membership, and one which was foisted upon the population. Of course not everyone joined but purely being a member does not imply any wrong doing on the part of that member. If any Nazi party member was guilty of war crimes he was brought to justice in some shape of form.
I still hear people railing aginst Furtwangler and he wasn't a member. They dislike the fact that he remained in Germany for the duration. Often these things are just an easy excuse to opine a dislike for. People will always find some reason if they are that way inclined. It is the nature of mankind to hate.

Fifty years down the line and to still hold that against someone is folly. What happened to the spirit of forgiveness? Should we dislike all Germans still? I know some who do, which is really sad.

Personally I do not care about anyone's politics, however controversial they may be. It is up to the individual to make that assessment.

Funny, how always the names of Von Karajan - a party member but probably not a sympathiser - and Furtwängler - not a party member and definitely not a sympathiser - pop up....
While the names of real Nazi adherents like Karl Böhm are hardly ever mentioned.

Q

I love irony

As I was typing the above reply this popped through the letterbox (I kid you not)

Quote from: Que on November 09, 2007, 04:00:16 AM
Funny, how always the names of Von Karajan - a party member but probably not a sympathiser - and Furtwängler - not a party member and definitely not a sympathiser - pop up....
While the names of real Nazi adherents like Karl Böhm are hardly ever mentioned.

Q

Quote from: Renfield on November 08, 2007, 01:58:38 PM
Not to mention he was one of their less-enthusiastic members, who made fun of his "colleagues" on more than one occasion. Especially when compared to musicians like Bohm, Karajan seems entirely by-the-way, as far as his Nazi party membership was concerned.

;)

Quote from: Renfield on November 09, 2007, 04:19:37 AM
;)

indeed!  ;D

Quote from: Grazioso on November 09, 2007, 03:34:50 AM
I don't know much about HvK's history and therefore can't comment on that, but why is it ridiculous to dislike someone for being a Nazi? If there were ever a good cause for animosity and disdain, that's it. If a significant composer or conductor belonged to the KKK, would that not bother you? Or is that a sin you're willing to forgive and forget so you could enjoy his music-making?

I think you misunderstood me. When I used the word 'dislike', I was referring to people's alleged dislike of his work as an artist, as a conductor, simply because he was a Nazi party member (yes, I have heard such nonsense spoken ::)). Like yourself, I've no real interest in politics - from years past or in the present - so I shan't be drawn on what I think about any performer's membership of any dubious or unsavoury political movement or organisation.

Y'know, with so many newcomers recently, I figured this bit of light-heartedness was worth a bump. ;)

FK

Comprehensive for sure!

Quote from: George on February 01, 2009, 12:00:49 PM
Comprehensive for sure!

Same here and I do not mean to be a copycat.  With the LP/CD count for JS Bach closing in on 1000 and the total number of LvB Symphonies cycles marching toward 20, I am anything but a casual collector.  George has got me started on the Beethoven Piano Sonatas as well ...    ;D

I'm definitely exploratory both because I'm new to classical music but also because I am very eclectic. I think that I will always be exploratory to some degree.  8)

Uhoh...I'm mostly Obsessive. :-[ But also Explorative, and often Impulsive too!  ;D

  Previously I had voted definitive and many respects I still am (Gotta have those really "great" recordings if you know what I mean).  However during the past 2 years I have become very explorative- I must have added at least 20 new composers to my collection during the past year and half alone!

  marvin

Definitive. I don't want all the CDs, I want all the right CDs. How I got to definitive, however, was to be both obsessive and expansive starting twenty-plus years ago.

I've learned that there are composers I don't like enough to have what some would consider a "well-rounded" collection. Nothing about listening to and collecting classical music makes the hair go up on the back of my neck is the notion that we must be well-rounded in our listening, or that there is a certain order in which we must approach listening. Bull dinkey.

Well, times may change, but I'm still:

COMPREHENSIVE

Once this type identifies a composer or composers whose work they love, they'll move heaven and earth to collect such composers' entire output on disc. They may well LIKE other composers; but they'll only show a devotion to collecting the complete works of those they LOVE. They may also border on obsession in acquiring as many different recordings of works by their preferred composers.

Although your definition is a trifle beyond my actual compulsion, it isn't so by much. :)  And it isn't as though I want as many different recordings as possible etc, it's more like I only have intentional duplicates by those composers and very few by all the rest.

8)

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on February 02, 2009, 09:46:26 AM
Well, times may change, but I'm still:

COMPREHENSIVE

Once this type identifies a composer or composers whose work they love, they'll move heaven and earth to collect such composers' entire output on disc.

If only there were more of Henning's music available . . . .

take me down for:

Obsessive (which I voted for), Comprehensive and Explorative.

Why not "Definite"? I can't give CDs away. Well, I am starting now... I REALLY don't need the Xiayin Wang / Amity Players performance of Brahms' Quartets opp.25 and 60. I will not officially enter that into my collection and dispose of it. (It's not bad... but not outstanding.)
But still, with most interpretations the "having it" has become very important... I don't believe in definitive recordings anymore... and I can't cull anything from my collection... I could never pair it down to, say, my two, three favorite interpretations of any given masterpiece. Anyone touching my ridiculously over-inflated Mahler collection would be in trouble, even if they only went for a recording I don't even care for. (Rattle's or Solti's 8th, for example. Actually, you could have the former, since I now have it in the box, anyway.)

So a "Definite" collector only qualifies if s/he gets rid of CDs on a somewhat regular basis, when favorites have been surplanted... or if they establish favorites and don't acquire new versions of the same piece.

I hear you on not believing in 'definitive' recordings. Some recordings have earned their legendary status, sure - but to suggest that any one recording of, say, Beethoven's Fifth Symphony will never be surpassed by another in the future is nonsense. Besides which, the more recordings you acquire of a work, the more likely are the chances that you'll hear something in that work which you didn't hear before.

FK

Once upon a time, I was obsessive, explorative and impulsive.  Now I'm merely selective (finance driven).  Boy, I sure do miss being obsessive and impulsive.

I am methodical in buliding up my collection over the years.  All media types are included in my collection except 8-tracks.  I have 3 open-reel decks so I can continue playing my classical music on open-reel tapes, some are pre-recorded by Barclay-Crocker and London while others were recorded off the air.  Here is one of my all-time favorite recordings on open-reels.  I have this recording on LP, open-reel and CD ...

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on February 02, 2009, 09:46:26 AM
COMPREHENSIVE

Once this type identifies a composer or composers whose work they love, they'll move heaven and earth to collect such composers' entire output on disc. They may well LIKE other composers; but they'll only show a devotion to collecting the complete works of those they LOVE. They may also border on obsession in acquiring as many different recordings of works by their preferred composers.

I think when George and I get together to compare Sviatoslav Richter notes we take comprehensive/obsessive to untold heights! (...or lows...) ;D

(Last page and a half of the Richter thread spells it all out).

Quote from: donwyn on February 02, 2009, 08:44:06 PM
I think when George and I get together to compare Sviatoslav Richter notes we take comprehensive/obsessive to untold heights! (...or lows...) ;D

(Last page and a half of the Richter thread spells it all out).

;D

I think I'm a disparate type collector