There was a microtonal thread around here somewhere, but I can't find it, though I searched the pertinent composers. Wyschnegradsky, Partch, Carillo, and Sims were mentioned, amoungst maybe one or two more. I believe at the end of the thread we hadn't reached any conclusions about microtonal music's place in history blahblah, and...
So, I've been listening to CRI 784, the Ezra Sims' American Masters cd, and was reminded of the thought of microtonal music. I got it for the Third SQ (1962), and, though it's very hard to describe, it most certainly is of the microtonal, 19-tone, type music. It reminds me hazily of that Lutoslawskian buzzing-around-a-tone, along with some of that Henry Cowell absolute dissonance early music, but Sims is verrry "sounds of the summer field" mellow, and, ultimately, my most profound sensation is of lostening to distant music of uncertain variety wafting in the window on a very lazy summer afternoon. It is all very beautiful in the non-obvious way.
The SQ alternates bowing and plucking, and uses a pretty narrow bandwidth of material. The faster sections sound like semi-classifiable music, busy and tense, but the slow sections sound like music from a bog pond on a summer day. It absolutely baffles me, and is a singularly unique piece of music as I have heard in modern SQs. I don't know how much I actually like it, and there maaay be some ear fatigue for some members, but overall this is quite something. It inhabits a world all to itself, and, written in 1962, is well light years beyond anyone else in terms of sheer,... pluck?
The mixed ensemble piece written for Boston Musica Viva, "String Quartet No.2 (1962)" (1974) (fl, cl, vln, vla, vnc) is even more drawn out to the point of stasis, and begins to sound a little like Morton Feldman in the chromatic saturation. The bandwidth seems extremely limited here,... I just don't know what's going on, ha, but it's very static and saturated slow moving, almost (truly) impressionistic textures. There is a little rhythmic interest in the fast sections, but other than that, this 30min. piece is a befuddlement to me.
The Rilke Elegie (1976) ,for soprano (Elsa Charlston) and the above mentioned Boston Musica Viva line-up, is easier to understand because of the singing (fairly typical, nice-ish modern serial singing type), but the music flows beneath the singing in the same undulating fashion as it does in the other piece.
The desolate, alien landscape painted by Sims' microtonal palette is tough for me to get a handle on because of the placidity of much of the surface,... but, I kinda like it, if only because it's mellow-ish, but, its trippy '60s drug-induced type vibe is pretty hip sounding, and truly kind of alien; but, believe me, it's all very delicate and understated. It will take me a few more listens to figure this one out!
As I remember the previous thread, the talk seemed to veer toward the music sounding like it does on this album: hazy, unfocused (of course, duh!), and following a rhythmic plan of its own inexorable unfurling, by its own logic. Sims said that the SQ kind of wrote itself.
Well, I've listened twice, and I'm scratching my head. I don't know how to report this stuff??!!?? It's slightly dull, and slightly bizarre, at the same time! This must be what a heroin addict hears in their head!?! Ennui! It just seems like a lot of work, and I don't know how great the pay off is.
Perhaps Cato knows? Hmmm...
I'll see if I can revive this. I've actually been playing around with the Partch instruments here (one finger at a time):
http://musicmavericks.publicradio.org/features/feature_partch.html#
Fun website!!! You can play!!
I have to check out the Sims. Is there anything of late in the microtonal world?
I am not stalking Snyprrr (whenever I look for something lately there is Snyprrr having started it!)!
Quote from: milk on July 17, 2014, 08:00:17 AM
I am not stalking Snyprrr (whenever I look for something lately there is Snyprrr having started it!)!
I have the Sims disc with some String Quartets and some other ensemble pieces. Mmmm... I don't know how you'll feel about it, it's that kind of dreary microtonal stuff that really seems to just wallow in that 'mood', as if you're caught in amber. There's certainly nothing XXXTREME here- it's all pretty laid back sounding (though, in a dreary laid back way- ennui?)
If you can find that CRI disc for a dollar, it's worth checking out, but I'm not a big fan of this type of microtonal noodling- it just sounds like grinding, somewhat tonal listlessness like a weary afternoon going nowhere- so, IF YOU LIKE CAGE- HAHAHA!!! (just kidding!)
Unlike Partch, there are no cool instruments here...
MICROTONAL- what a crock! Used to be called 'inflection'- I wonder if Sims was a Leftie?? This is usually what happens at the end of my Posts- as Sarge can attest! I have a "filter" problem for which I have been seeking regular treatment for!! :laugh:
I must be seeing things. Why did I think this was a general microtonal thread and not just for Sims. Maybe I can't read. Do we have a general microtonal thread? I meant to find one after looking at the Branca thread. Yes, the samples didn't enthrall me for this. I have to stop buying so many things. Did anyone check out my link? Or maybe it's already known. OK. I'll put it in the Partch thread. It's really interesting.
Interesting to me, but I don't listen to the CRIs them often.
Sims has a website: perhaps he lives next door?
http://www.ezrasims.com/
and here's his Sextet (1981)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP6-sFdYsQs
I've not been particularly struck by what I've heard of Sims: Easley Blackwood's Microtonal etudes, on the other hand . . .
try this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odTIoRzbDhA
Quote from: Dax on July 18, 2014, 11:28:06 AM
Sims has a website: perhaps he lives next door?
http://www.ezrasims.com/
and here's his Sextet (1981)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP6-sFdYsQs
I've not been particularly struck by what I've heard of Sims: Easley Blackwood's Microtonal etudes, on the other hand . . .
try this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odTIoRzbDhA
GReeeat Blackwood! Sounds Like the '70s!! haha
(also that microtonal metal guitar in the margin!)
SHOULD I SCRAP SIMS'S NAME AND JUST MAKE THIS THE 'MICTONAL UNIVERSE' THREAD???????
Easley Blackwood's Microtonal etudes are pretty twisted, as I remember. I haven't heard that one in ages!
I listened to String Sextet, Violin Cello duo, Violin Viola duo, Violin solo, Viola solo. They sound weird, even eerie, to me. I have a similar feeling with Wyschnegradsky. Hába is more accessible. They use particular pitches selected from a 72 equal temperament.
I like music of Young, Riley, Michael Harrison, Schweinitz, who use just intonation.
The music using equally divided microtones and the music based on just intonation seem very different kinds to me, although ultimately both can generate any pitches, with finer divisions or higher orders.
What are the intentions of composers who use equally divided microtones? Just as an approximation to just intonation or Pythagorean tuning? Or to obtain weird effects? My impression is that the aim of equal temperament microtonalists is extension of 12-tone serialism, more abstraction of music, while just intonation composers are searching for new beauty of harmonies that have not been heard before.
Quote from: torut on July 18, 2014, 01:55:13 PM
The music using equally divided microtones and the music based on just intonation seem very different kinds to me, although ultimately both can generate any pitches, with finer divisions or higher orders.
What are the intentions of composers who use equally divided microtones? Just as an approximation to just intonation or Pythagorean tuning? Or to obtain weird effects? My impression is that the aim of equal temperament microtonalists is extension of 12-tone serialism, more abstraction of music, while just intonation composers are searching for new beauty of harmonies that have not been heard before.
That depends on the composer! Certainly
Wyschnegradsky comes across more as a descendant of
Scriabin, and do not forget
Julian Carrillo with works like the
Mass for Pope John XXIII and the
Christopher Columbus Prelude.
https://www.youtube.com/v/NCiw77HAmtw
https://www.youtube.com/v/lOihGnn6HoE
https://www.youtube.com/v/WCvSkmIMRMY
https://www.youtube.com/v/6E5mrmIwAOY
Quote from: Cato on July 18, 2014, 04:08:58 PM
That depends on the composer! Certainly Wyschnegradsky comes across more as a descendant of Scriabin, and do not forget Julian Carrillo with works like the Mass for Pope John XXIII and the Christopher Columbus Prelude.
Thank you for the clips, Carrillo is new to me. It is interesting but a bit uncanny. I purchased Wyschnegradsky's Etudes and Preludes a long time ago but rarely listen to it.
Quote from: torut on July 18, 2014, 01:55:13 PM
I listened to String Sextet, Violin Cello duo, Violin Viola duo, Violin solo, Viola solo. They sound weird, even eerie, to me. I have a similar feeling with Wyschnegradsky. Hába is more accessible. They use particular pitches selected from a 72 equal temperament.
I like music of Young, Riley, Michael Harrison, Schweinitz, who use just intonation.
The music using equally divided microtones and the music based on just intonation seem very different kinds to me, although ultimately both can generate any pitches, with finer divisions or higher orders.
What are the intentions of composers who use equally divided microtones? Just as an approximation to just intonation or Pythagorean tuning? Or to obtain weird effects? My impression is that the aim of equal temperament microtonalists is extension of 12-tone serialism, more abstraction of music, while just intonation composers are searching for new beauty of harmonies that have not been heard before.
Well put, and I think I agree. Partch and Lou Harrison are looking for new ways to be beautiful. Many microtonalists are not, at all.
Oh yes, the equal temperaments get ugly.
I like the beauty of Just Intonation, but it too depends on how it's used.
Quote from: torut on July 18, 2014, 01:55:13 PM
I listened to String Sextet, Violin Cello duo, Violin Viola duo, Violin solo, Viola solo. They sound weird, even eerie, to me. I have a similar feeling with Wyschnegradsky. Hába is more accessible. They use particular pitches selected from a 72 equal temperament.
I like music of Young, Riley, Michael Harrison, Schweinitz, who use just intonation.
The music using equally divided microtones and the music based on just intonation seem very different kinds to me, although ultimately both can generate any pitches, with finer divisions or higher orders.
What are the intentions of composers who use equally divided microtones? Just as an approximation to just intonation or Pythagorean tuning? Or to obtain weird effects? My impression is that the aim of equal temperament microtonalists is extension of 12-tone serialism, more abstraction of music, while just intonation composers are searching for new beauty of harmonies that have not been heard before.
I perfectly understand your doubts. Maybe they choose that because in that still completely unexplored field that is microtonality it's easier to experiment with equal temperaments, especially considering acoustic instruments.
In fact I think that if there's a future for microtonality (and I hope so) is especially in electronic music.
And by the way, Wendy Carlos and her Beauty in the beast deserves to be mentioned:
(http://www.google.it/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=Xu8GjTYwS6Yk9M&tbnid=Ls5DH_7R365NrM:&ved=0CAUQjBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wendycarlos.com%2Fcdcovers%2FBitBNew.jpg&ei=5WvKU5CINKjMygOBq4CIAw&psig=AFQjCNHeS6_6mwASib_2QZU82I8xIKZxbg&ust=1405861221917227)
Quote from: escher on July 19, 2014, 05:01:27 AM
I perfectly understand your doubts. Maybe they choose that because in that still completely unexplored field that is microtonality it's easier to experiment with equal temperaments, especially considering acoustic instruments.
In fact I think that if there's a future for microtonality (and I hope so) is especially in electronic music.
What make's it easier? The beating of irrational intervals make it more difficult to play in tune.
I'd still have to get a guitar re-fretted.
Quote from: torut on July 18, 2014, 08:08:32 PM
Thank you for the clips, Carrillo is new to me. It is interesting but a bit uncanny. I purchased Wyschnegradsky's Etudes and Preludes a long time ago but rarely listen to it.
Give the latter another chance! 0:)
Quote from: 7/4 on July 19, 2014, 04:39:06 AM
Oh yes, the equal temperaments get ugly.
I like the beauty of Just Intonation, but it too depends on how it's used.
Always true with any system: e.g.
Schoenberg 0:) vs.
Hauer ???.
Quote from: Ken B on July 18, 2014, 08:19:59 PM
Well put, and I think I agree. Partchand Lou Harrison are looking for new ways to be beautiful. Many microtonalists are not, at all.
Also true:
Alois Haba invented a "non-melodic" style, which can be off-putting. However, in spite of that, his opera
The Mother has some fascinating melodies.
https://www.youtube.com/v/127K6DGpbhc&list=RD127K6DGpbhc#t=4
Quote from: 7/4 on July 19, 2014, 06:39:04 AM
What make's it easier? The beating of irrational intervals make it more difficult to play in tune.
I'd still have to get a guitar re-fretted.
easier in the sense that if you change "tonality" you don't have to think about it, like in the normal equal temperament.
For just intonation, what about Ben Johnston? I didn't see his name mentioned yet, but I may have missed it. He wrote some really nice SQs. One of them I heard in particular (3rd or 4th, I think) had such a lush sound that it reminded me of a microtonal Ravel SQ.
Quote from: James on July 19, 2014, 08:58:11 AM
Thinking of electronic music right now .. where the creative possibilities of tone division really expand, where we can get right down to the sound atoms. And there is more control on a forensic level too.
True! Back in March I wrote the following under "Electronic Music: The First 70 Years" :
Quote40 years ago, I had great hopes for the Motorola Scalatron, an electronic synthesizer capable of playing mircrotonal music, all the way up to 31-tones per octave.
e.g. Imagine a 24-note quarter-tone scale with 7 1/3 tones, or vice versa! Or an "equal" 31-tone scale: the Motorola Scalatron could handle it.
That is, if you could handle the keyboard! It resembled the left-hand of an accordion, but had hexagonal push-buttons for all the notes. A composer named George Secor, with whom I corresponded for a while, since I myself was rather heavily into inventing my own quarter-tone scales, had consulted with Motorola on the design, (i.e. talked them into using his design 8) ) and then the company sent him forth to play his own compositions to demonstrate the possibilities and the sounds and to sell the thing.
$7,500 got you the synthesizer and assorted tuning "programs" plus a black-and-white T.V. set for checking the sine-waves as the machine got tuned!
According to a source on the Internet, after advertising it in music journals and other magazines for a year or two, the company ended up building precisely two machines, and one of them was the demo used by George Secor.
(I was a little bit sour about this, because the man made it clear to me that he had no interest in performing anyone's music but his own, and let's just say I found his stuff less than impressive. ;) )
Update:
Go to this page, and you will hear one of Secor's most recent - and still rather primitive and boring - compositions: take away the microtonal scale and you don't have much of interest at all! Listen to the left-hand part especially!
http://www.sagittal.org/ (http://www.sagittal.org/)
On the other hand, maybe you will like it!
See:
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,16741.msg784715.html#msg784715 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,16741.msg784715.html#msg784715)
Quote from: escher on July 19, 2014, 10:32:43 AM
easier in the sense that if you change "tonality" you don't have to think about it, like in the normal equal temperament.
and maybe for convenience of notation? For example, in case of 24 equal temperament, you only need to indicate 1/4th higher/lower tone with modified accidentals.
BTW, there is a nice Selected Just Intonation Discography (http://www.kylegann.com/tuning.html) by Kyle Gann.
La Monte Young: The Well-Tuned Piano
La Monte Young: Just Stompin' (Young's Dorian Blues in G)
Terry Riley: The Harp of New Albion
Terry Riley: Shri Camel
Ben Johnston: Suite for Microtonal Piano, Sonata for Microtonal Piano, Saint Joan
Ben Johnston: String Quartet No. 9
Ben Johnston: Suite for Microtonal Piano
Toby Twining: Chrysalid Requiem
Lou Harrison: Piano Concerto
Michael Harrison: From Ancient Worlds
Michael Harrison: Revelation
Ben Neill: Green Machine
David B. Doty: Uncommon Practice
Brian McLaren: Undiscovered Worlds
Brian McLaren: Music from the Edge, Volume 2
Kyle Gann: The Day Revisited on Private Dances
Kyle Gann: Custer's Ghost
Kyle Gann: Ghost Town
Something here:
(http://microfestrecords.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/Aron-Kallay-Beyond-12-online-300x300.jpg)
The track list:
1) Echoes of Nothing: Nothing (9:10) – Kyle Gann
2) Echoes of Nothing: Something (4:03) – Kyle Gann
3) Alien Warp Etude (4:16) – Isaac Schankler
4) Ostinato Quasi Octatonica (5:55) – Aaron K. Johnson
5) Lament (6:57) – John Schneider
6) Barstow Bagatelle (8:09) – Tom Flaherty
7) Mbira or in Cage with Adams (3:49) – Vera Ivanova
8) Color Variations: I. 22-tone Indian Shruti Scale (2:45) – Jason Heath
9) Color Variations: II. Xenakis Byzantine Liturgical (3:07) – Jason Heath
10) Color Variations: III. Al-Farabi-Greek (3:23) – Jason Heath
11) All the Pretty Colours of the Rainbow (6:59) – Brian Shepard
8 smiles.
Quote from: Cato on July 19, 2014, 06:52:07 AM
Give the latter another chance! 0:)
Yes, it is not that I disliked it. I recently listened to Donaueschenger 2010 (Neos), which contains many interesing works, including Wyschnegradsky's piece for 6 pianos (each tuned with twelfth-tone difference, to achieve 72 equal temperament) and Georg Friedrich Haas's concerto for 6 pianos (same tuning) and orchestra. Wyschnegradsky's piece is mysterious, and Haas's work is impressive but also elusive to me. How do you think of Haas's music? It's difficult to grasp. Haas describes the work (
limited approximations) with words such as "diffusion, clouding, friction," using "pseudo-glissandi" or "a twelfth-tone cluster."
limited approximations: Work Introduction by Haas (http://www.universaledition.com/limited-approximations-for-6-micro-tonally-tuned-pianos-orchestra-Georg-Friedrich-Haas/composers-and-works/composer/278/work/13386)
Quote from: torut on July 19, 2014, 10:20:58 PM
Yes, it is not that I disliked it. I recently listened to Donaueschenger 2010 (Neos), which contains many interesing works, including Wyschnegradsky's piece for 6 pianos (each tuned with twelfth-tone difference, to achieve 72 equal temperament) and Georg Friedrich Haas's concerto for 6 pianos (same tuning) and orchestra. Wyschnegradsky's piece is mysterious, and Haas's work is impressive but also elusive to me. How do you think of Haas's music? It's difficult to grasp. Haas describes the work (limited approximations) with words such as "diffusion, clouding, friction," using "pseudo-glissandi" or "a twelfth-tone cluster."
limited approximations: Work Introduction by Haas (http://www.universaledition.com/limited-approximations-for-6-micro-tonally-tuned-pianos-orchestra-Georg-Friedrich-Haas/composers-and-works/composer/278/work/13386)
Many thanks for that! The problem here is that the average ear will barely be able to tell the difference between e.g. C and
C 1/12th.
For a microtonal composer using scales for a rather traditional polyphony:
https://www.youtube.com/v/ZstR-IsHO6w
Quote from: EigenUser on July 19, 2014, 10:48:52 AM
For just intonation, what about Ben Johnston? I didn't see his name mentioned yet, but I may have missed it. He wrote some really nice SQs. One of them I heard in particular (3rd or 4th, I think) had such a lush sound that it reminded me of a microtonal Ravel SQ.
That seems interesting. I only have No. 2 (coupled with Cage's HPSCHD 8)). No. 2 sounds like a typical atonal, avant-garde piece, using a serial tone row. The final movement is a little chaotic. However, according to wikipedia, later quartets are more tonal? I want to check No. 3/4, No. 9 (mentioned by Gann), and the others.
Quote from: torut on July 20, 2014, 10:06:09 PM
That seems interesting. I only have No. 2 (coupled with Cage's HPSCHD 8)). No. 2 sounds like a typical atonal, avant-garde piece, using a serial tone row. The final movement is a little chaotic. However, according to wikipedia, later quartets are more tonal? I want to check No. 3/4, No. 9 (mentioned by Gann), and the others.
That must be a long tone row! Much more than 12 notes? Or perhaps still 12 notes in a chromatic scale, but they are just divided differently?
It has been a while since I've heard that piece I mentioned. I should hear it again. Honestly, I don't like the idea of writing in microtones if the composer is only to use them in a typical avant-garde style. I prefer the scenario where the composer writes melodically, but with using microtones in the harmonies (or melody). That way, you really get a feel for how they sound in a "traditional" tonal environment. That was what struck me about the Johnston quartet I heard.
Ligeti's "Hamburg" horn concerto and (to a lesser extent) violin concerto use microtones in this way as well.
Quote from: EigenUser on July 21, 2014, 03:16:44 AM
That must be a long tone row! Much more than 12 notes? Or perhaps still 12 notes in a chromatic scale, but they are just divided differently?
It has been a while since I've heard that piece I mentioned. I should hear it again. Honestly, I don't like the idea of writing in microtones if the composer is only to use them in a typical avant-garde style. I prefer the scenario where the composer writes melodically, but with using microtones in the harmonies (or melody). That way, you really get a feel for how they sound in a "traditional" tonal environment. That was what struck me about the Johnston quartet I heard.
Ligeti's "Hamburg" horn concerto and (to a lesser extent) violin concerto use microtones in this way as well.
Did Feldman use microtones?
Quote from: EigenUser on July 21, 2014, 03:16:44 AM
That must be a long tone row! Much more than 12 notes? Or perhaps still 12 notes in a chromatic scale, but they are just divided differently?
According to the liner notes of this album (http://www.newworldrecords.org/album.cgi?rm=view&album_id=15254) (not the one I have), a twelve-note row is used in the 1st movement. I hear a sequence of notes that resembles serial music, but didn't confirm the details.
Johnston uses just intonation, but it seems to me that n (>12) equal temperament is a natual consequence of serialism. (If all the twelve tones are equal, why not the tones in-between?) But nobody can memorize 72-note row, I think. :laugh:
Quote
It has been a while since I've heard that piece I mentioned. I should hear it again. Honestly, I don't like the idea of writing in microtones if the composer is only to use them in a typical avant-garde style. I prefer the scenario where the composer writes melodically, but with using microtones in the harmonies (or melody). That way, you really get a feel for how they sound in a "traditional" tonal environment. That was what struck me about the Johnston quartet I heard.
Ligeti's "Hamburg" horn concerto and (to a lesser extent) violin concerto use microtones in this way as well.
Works by many JI composers have very unique, memorable characteristics, IMO.
Quote from: milk on July 21, 2014, 05:04:45 AM
Did Feldman use microtones?
Probably, but they are played very slowly and very quietly :D.
Seriously, though, I'm not sure. That's a good question.
Quote from: torut on July 21, 2014, 06:14:42 PM
According to the liner notes of this album (http://www.newworldrecords.org/album.cgi?rm=view&album_id=15254) (not the one I have), a twelve-note row is used in the 1st movement. I hear a sequence of notes that resembles serial music, but didn't confirm the details.
Johnston uses just intonation, but it seems to me that n (>12) equal temperament is a natual consequence of serialism. (If all the twelve tones are equal, why not the tones in-between?) But nobody can memorize 72-note row, I think. :laugh:
Works by many JI composers have very unique, memorable characteristics, IMO.
Yeah, I bet Schoenberg wasn't thinking of that when he devised the 12-tone system.
Found it! It is Johnston's SQ No. 6! I expect people to disagree with me, but I hear Ravel (microtonal, of course).
http://www.youtube.com/v/kdqyvkfcYZo
Quote from: EigenUser on July 21, 2014, 06:49:37 PM
Probably, but they are played very slowly and very quietly :D.
Seriously, though, I'm not sure. That's a good question.
Try googling "Feldman microtones" and you'll find some answers.
Quote from: Dax on July 22, 2014, 10:33:40 AM
Try googling "Feldman microtones" and you'll find some answers.
The answer may be rather too complicated for me. The best I can understand is that the answer is "kind of/sort of."
Quote from: EigenUser on July 21, 2014, 06:49:37 PM
Found it! It is Johnston's SQ No. 6! I expect people to disagree with me, but I hear Ravel (microtonal, of course).
http://www.youtube.com/v/kdqyvkfcYZo
That is very beautiful, thank you. I also listened to the string quartet No. 1, 5 and 10 by Kepler Quartet and liked No. 6 the most. The later works are more accessible, and I am not saying it in a negative meaning. No. 10 is a fun piece with a lot of folkish melodies, very different from No. 6. No. 1 is in avant-garde style, and actually it sounded quite fresh after hearing No. 10. (That is the order on the album.)
Quote from: Dax on July 18, 2014, 11:28:06 AM
I've not been particularly struck by what I've heard of Sims: Easley Blackwood's Microtonal etudes, on the other hand . . .
try this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odTIoRzbDhA
Quote from: Cato on July 20, 2014, 03:34:43 PM
For a microtonal composer using scales for a rather traditional polyphony:
https://www.youtube.com/v/ZstR-IsHO6w
Lovely! Strangely melodious. It reminds me of Kyle Gann's
The Day Revisited (on Private Dances: http://www.amazon.com/dp/b00102feoo/ (http://www.amazon.com/dp/b00102feoo/)) The melody is very unique.
This is a little weird, sounds out of tune, but beautiful.
Fugitive Objects (Tuning Study No. 7) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFmJEQzGPI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFmJEQzGPI) (tuning (http://www.kylegann.com/FugitiveObjects.html))
Some unusual instruments using strings such as bowed piano strings (Stephen Scott), long string instrument (Ellen Fullman), bowed guitars (Glenn Branca) have wonderful sounds. Interestingly, they are often tuned in just intonation. Probably JI composers are interested in the sounds that resemble Indian or Eastern traditional instruments? Duane Pitre's music using bowed guitars is also fantastic. I am really captivated by this kind of music.
Duane Pitre (http://www.duanepitre.com/) - Origin album preview
https://soundcloud.com/duanepitre/origin_album-preview (https://soundcloud.com/duanepitre/origin_album-preview)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61gVRjRKP8L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
The entirety of Origin's musical material is comprised of the vibrating strings of Pitre's ensemble of bowed "harmonic-guitars," which are unconventionally strung electric guitars (utilizing multi-unisons) tuned to intervals corresponding with the Harmonic Series, a.k.a. Just Intonation, utilizing the prime numbers 1, 3, 5, 7, and 11). No effects processing (pre or post) was used in this recording. All effect-like qualities result from the multi-unison strings (phasing), sympathetic vibrations, combination/difference tones (of the chosen just tuning), and natural acoustic phenomena as such.
Some other JI works.
Music For Microtonal Guitar And Mallets
http://soundcloud.com/duanepitre/music-for-microtonal-guitar (http://soundcloud.com/duanepitre/music-for-microtonal-guitar)
The composer told that it was composed while "heavily under the influence of my La Monte phase." It immediately recalled Riley's Harp of New Albion to me.
Extended Studies for The Carpenter - live at ISSUE 3/25/09, for justly tuned sine tones
http://soundcloud.com/duanepitre/extended-studies (http://soundcloud.com/duanepitre/extended-studies)
A very minimalistic sound art.
Quote from: torut on July 24, 2014, 09:52:16 PM
Some unusual instruments using strings such as bowed piano strings (Stephen Scott), long string instrument (Ellen Fullman), bowed guitars (Glenn Branca) have wonderful sounds. Interestingly, they are often tuned in just intonation. Probably JI composers are interested in the sounds that resemble Indian or Eastern traditional instruments? Duane Pitre's music using bowed guitars is also fantastic. I am really captivated by this kind of music.
Duane Pitre (http://www.duanepitre.com/) - Origin album preview
https://soundcloud.com/duanepitre/origin_album-preview (https://soundcloud.com/duanepitre/origin_album-preview)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61gVRjRKP8L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
The entirety of Origin's musical material is comprised of the vibrating strings of Pitre's ensemble of bowed "harmonic-guitars," which are unconventionally strung electric guitars (utilizing multi-unisons) tuned to intervals corresponding with the Harmonic Series, a.k.a. Just Intonation, utilizing the prime numbers 1, 3, 5, 7, and 11). No effects processing (pre or post) was used in this recording. All effect-like qualities result from the multi-unison strings (phasing), sympathetic vibrations, combination/difference tones (of the chosen just tuning), and natural acoustic phenomena as such.
Some other JI works.
Music For Microtonal Guitar And Mallets
http://soundcloud.com/duanepitre/music-for-microtonal-guitar (http://soundcloud.com/duanepitre/music-for-microtonal-guitar)
The composer told that it was composed while "heavily under the influence of my La Monte phase." It immediately recalled Riley's Harp of New Albion to me.
Extended Studies for The Carpenter - live at ISSUE 3/25/09, for justly tuned sine tones
http://soundcloud.com/duanepitre/extended-studies (http://soundcloud.com/duanepitre/extended-studies)
A very minimalistic sound art.
The samples are interesting. In the vein of Fullman.
Quote from: milk on July 25, 2014, 01:34:33 AM
The samples are interesting. In the vein of Fullman.
Yes, Fullman was the first name that popped into my head when I heard Pitre.
Bowed guitar may not be so unusual as I thought. There is even a Wikipedia entry. Playing it looks difficult.
This is also interesting: Nancarrow + Ligeti + Reich + Just Intonation. Just 6 min.
David D. McIntire -
Hommage á Nancarrowhttp://recordings.irritablehedgehog.com/album/hommage-nancarrow (http://recordings.irritablehedgehog.com/album/hommage-nancarrow)
(http://f1.bcbits.com/img/a0862564609_2.jpg)
(Is the cover art an image of a JI sequencer software?)
The composer wrote that Ligeti and Reich were the influences, but I am not sure how it is so. I felt rather the influence of Partch, although McIntire didn't mention him.
Quote from: milk on July 19, 2014, 05:40:11 PM
Something here:
(http://microfestrecords.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/Aron-Kallay-Beyond-12-online-300x300.jpg)
The track list:
1) Echoes of Nothing: Nothing (9:10) – Kyle Gann
2) Echoes of Nothing: Something (4:03) – Kyle Gann
3) Alien Warp Etude (4:16) – Isaac Schankler
4) Ostinato Quasi Octatonica (5:55) – Aaron K. Johnson
5) Lament (6:57) – John Schneider
6) Barstow Bagatelle (8:09) – Tom Flaherty
7) Mbira or in Cage with Adams (3:49) – Vera Ivanova
8) Color Variations: I. 22-tone Indian Shruti Scale (2:45) – Jason Heath
9) Color Variations: II. Xenakis Byzantine Liturgical (3:07) – Jason Heath
10) Color Variations: III. Al-Farabi-Greek (3:23) – Jason Heath
11) All the Pretty Colours of the Rainbow (6:59) – Brian Shepard
8 smiles.
Thanks for that. (At first, I thought you liked #8 the best. 8)) It is a beautiful album. Each piece uses different tuning. Every work is interesting and fascinating. I think this is a nice showcase of possibilities of microtonal piano music. I want to listen to volume 2.
I also listened to Ben Johnston's miacrotonal piano. Like his string quartets around the same period, the earlier piece (Sonata, 1964) is a little inaccessible, more atonal compared with other JI composers' works. I need to listen to it more times. I feel that Johnston tends to use microtones in a less exotic way.
Ben Johnston: Microtonal Piano - Phillip Bush, piano
[asin]B000001SJH[/asin]
Michael Harrison - Just Ancient Loops - Maya Beiser, cello
https://www.youtube.com/v/Mgz8rOAGRCI
Notes: http://seriousmusicmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Just_Ancient_Loops_-_Notes_by_Harrison.pdf (http://seriousmusicmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Just_Ancient_Loops_-_Notes_by_Harrison.pdf)
This is a fascinating work. Maya Beiser played cello with pre-recorded (up to 22) cello parts. I love Michael Harrison's solo piano works (From Ancient Worlds, Revelation), and he wrote that this is the sequel to the work for re-tuned piano, Revelation: Music in Pure Intonation. The title represents the three elements of the work: "Just" - just intonation; "Ancient" - ancient music of India, Persia, etc; "Loops" - minimalist aspects.
The other pieces on the album Time Loops are wonderful too, with Harrison on piano or Young People's Chorus of New York City.
[asin]B00925TBIG[/asin]
album info: http://seriousmusicmedia.com/?page_id=947 (http://seriousmusicmedia.com/?page_id=947)
Thanks for posting that. I purchased From Ancient worlds some years back and found it disappointing and dreary. Just Ancient Loops sounds a good deal more interesting so far (I'm a few minutes in). Strangely enough, the use of just intonation seems largely unnoticeable.
By way of returning the favour, do you know Christer Hennix's The Electric Harpsichord?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGrp_q9RSYA&list=RDiGrp_q9RSYA#t=19
A more mainstream composer that uses microtones is Ligeti. His violin concerto (1992-ish) requires that one orchestral violinist and one violist tune their instruments according to certain double bass harmonics. They aren't quite quarter tones, either. He really plays with this in the first movement, where the soloist (normally tuned) fades in (marked pppppp in the score, so pianissississississimo??) with semiquavers alternating between open "A" and "D" strings. Then, the "mis-tuned" viola (what's new? :laugh:) fades in with their slightly lower-tuned "D" and "G" strings. Very beautiful, actually. Then more and more strings come in (tuned and mis-tuned) so you really can tell the difference.
His other major work that significantly uses microtones is the "Hamburg" Horn Concerto of 1999. He even used them as early as the 1950s in his "Concert Romanesc" (easily his most accessible work, even more so than much of Bartok), where the horn emulates a "mountain-horn" call in the 3rd movement and the end of the 4th movement. Other microtonal works of his that I can think of off the top of my head are:
-Ramifications for 12 stringed instruments (6 of them are tuned normally, the other 6 are tuned a quarter tone below)
-Clocks and Clouds
-Double Concerto for Flute and Oboe
-Piano Concerto
-Requiem (almost positive, though I don't have the score)
Quote from: Dax on July 31, 2014, 01:52:57 AM
Thanks for posting that. I purchased From Ancient worlds some years back and found it disappointing and dreary. Just Ancient Loops sounds a good deal more interesting so far (I'm a few minutes in). Strangely enough, the use of just intonation seems largely unnoticeable.
I also felt that the cello work is more natural than the previous piano works. That is probably because he used intentionally commas (64:63) for the piano work, while the tuning / scale for Just Ancient Loop is simpler. (See below.)
The tuning for The Revelationhttp://www.michaelharrison.com/Pure_intonation.aspx (http://www.michaelharrison.com/Pure_intonation.aspx)
The tuning's unique qualities exist in the relationships between the black and white keys, which reveal a wide variety of exotic and colorful intervals. The revelation tuning has a practical symmetry whereby all of the white keys form a series of Pythagorean fifths (a 3:2 ratio), and all of the black keys form another series of Pythagorean fifths, with each black key tuned to the seventh overtone (a 7:4 ratio) above each corresponding white key. The 7:4 ratio is the naturally occurring minor seventh that exists in the overtone series (approximately 31% of a semi-tone flat from the equal tempered minor seventh). As a result, three black keys are tuned to the celestial comma (a 64:63 ratio) below three adjacent white keys. This creates ample opportunity to use what I refer to as the pulsating comma effect in a variety of different harmonic contexts, where the adjacent commas sound simultaneously. This symmetrical layout of the white and black keys allows for a very intuitive approach to playing the piano. For example, the white keys are purely diatonic; by adding any black keys into the mix you will get either septimal minor intervals or the pulsating comma effect. The tuning for Just Ancient Loops(http://bangonacan.org/sites/default/files/imagecache/BIG/michael_harrison_2012.jpg)
Michael Harrison's composer autograph depicts the just intonation scheme for his piece Just Ancient Loops.Quote
By way of returning the favour, do you know Christer Hennix's The Electric Harpsichord?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGrp_q9RSYA&list=RDiGrp_q9RSYA#t=19
I didn't know that. I am listening to it now. The shimmering sound reminds me of Ellen Fullman or Charlemagne Palestine (he also composed
Strumming for Harpsichord.) It sounds nice. Thank you.
Arvo Pärt's Stabat Mater played in just intonation
[asin]B00I17D02E[/asin]
Goeyvaerts String Trio (Kristien Roels - violin, Kris Matthynssens - viola, Pieter Stas - celo), Zsuzsi Tóth - soprano, Barnabás Hegyi - countertenor, Olivier Berten - tenor
This is an interesting video in which Goeyvaerts String Trio explains, with a demonstration, how they decided to use just intonation in the recording. First, they played with vibrato and felt that it was not what they wanted. Then, they tried non vibrato but still did not satisfy with the sound. After experimenting different temperaments they eventually chose just intonation. The result is incredibly beautiful.
https://www.youtube.com/v/ctutsSGWsrM
Jude Thomas has been cranking out 31 new works in just intonation over 31 days. He's at day 27, I'm catching up listening to these today. Good work man!
https://soundcloud.com/composerjude/sets/31days
Quote from: 7/4 on August 06, 2014, 04:37:04 PM
Jude Thomas has been cranking out 31 new works in just intonation over 31 days. He's at day 27, I'm catching up listening to these today. Good work man!
https://soundcloud.com/composerjude/sets/31days
A lot of good stuff in that. Thank you.
David B. Doty offers free downloads of some recordings from Other Music LPs and Steel Suite (work in progress.)
http://www.dbdoty.com/MusicDownloads.html (http://www.dbdoty.com/MusicDownloads.html)
Music with Four Tones (1980). 2:10
Gending: A Waning Moon (1979) 5:18
Recom III/River of Dreams (1979) 9:02
Music with Too Many Parts (1983) 7:57
http://www.dbdoty.com/SteelSuiteRecordings.html (http://www.dbdoty.com/SteelSuiteRecordings.html)
harpsichord version and synthesizer version
His web site also contains good information about JI.
Quote from: torut on August 07, 2014, 06:17:41 PM
A lot of good stuff in that. Thank you.
David B. Doty offers free downloads of some recordings from Other Music LPs and Steel Suite (work in progress.)
http://www.dbdoty.com/MusicDownloads.html (http://www.dbdoty.com/MusicDownloads.html)
Music with Four Tones (1980). 2:10
Gending: A Waning Moon (1979) 5:18
Recom III/River of Dreams (1979) 9:02
Music with Too Many Parts (1983) 7:57
http://www.dbdoty.com/SteelSuiteRecordings.html (http://www.dbdoty.com/SteelSuiteRecordings.html)
harpsichord version and synthesizer version
His web site also contains good information about JI.
His book is pretty good, mostly.
By the time his album Uncommon Practice came out, the sounds were dated, but the music wasn't.
Quote from: 7/4 on August 08, 2014, 03:06:23 AM
His book is pretty good, mostly.
By the time his album Uncommon Practice came out, the sounds were dated, but the music wasn't.
I have been listening to Uncommon Practice since yesterday. Although at times the timbre of synthesizer is too plain and a bit cheap, the music is nice. The sound of Other Music recordings, using original instruments like Partch or Lou Harrison, is much better.
I read the first chapter (http://www.dbdoty.com/Words/Primer_2.1.html) (a brief history of tunings and a short introduction of some JI composers) of The Just Intonation Primer and ordered the book. It seems I should read this before Genesis of a Music.
1/1: The Journal of the Just Intonation Network (http://www.frogpeak.org/fpartists/fpjin.html) also looks interesting.
Kyle Gann's "some simple microtonal pieces for kids," called "Nursery Tunes for Demented Children."
Perverting the Young, Microtonally
http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2014/08/perverting-the-young-microtonally.html (http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2014/08/perverting-the-young-microtonally.html)
Lovely and weird. :D
Quote from: torut on August 17, 2014, 02:15:52 PM
Kyle Gann's "some simple microtonal pieces for kids," called "Nursery Tunes for Demented Children."
Perverting the Young, Microtonally
http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2014/08/perverting-the-young-microtonally.html (http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2014/08/perverting-the-young-microtonally.html)
Lovely and weird. :D
I like the second one best.
(http://o.scdn.co/300/46b9407b2923fa385a24553533313f283b443aca)
I'm quite enjoying this.
Quote from: milk on August 27, 2014, 06:53:59 AM
(http://o.scdn.co/300/46b9407b2923fa385a24553533313f283b443aca)
I'm quite enjoying this.
That's very good. My favorite is Joan La Barbara's
Silent Scroll. I wish more Dean Drummond's music will be recorded.
I was reading a book about temperaments and scales, and found this group. Syzygys is a female duo consisting of Hitomi Shimizu (organ) and Hiromi Nishida (violin). Shimizu plays a Yamaha electric reed organ tuned in Harry Partch's 43 tone tuning "in C". The tuning was done by scratching the flange of the reeds. There is a Flash keyboard of Partch's 43 tone tuning on their web site: http://syzygys.jp/e_pages/index.html (http://syzygys.jp/e_pages/index.html). (You can play a code by clicking a key, and without releasing the mouse button, move to the next key and click it quickly.)
Syzygy Moon (from Otona)
https://www.youtube.com/v/UoRpddRYBTM
This piece from the latest album Otona is rather classical, but they had been performing more pop tunes and I like it! ("Microtonal pop for the 21st Century.")
Fauna Grotesque (from Complete Studio Recordings)
https://www.youtube.com/v/cA9AXvD09CM
Quote from: torut on August 27, 2014, 09:53:02 PM
I was reading a book about temperaments and scales, and found this group. Syzygys is a female duo consisting of Hitomi Shimizu (organ) and Hiromi Nishida (violin). Shimizu plays a Yamaha electric reed organ tuned in Harry Partch's 43 tone tuning "in C". The tuning was done by scratching the flange of the reeds. There is a Flash keyboard of Partch's 43 tone tuning on their web site: http://syzygys.jp/e_pages/index.html (http://syzygys.jp/e_pages/index.html). (You can play a code by clicking a key, and without releasing the mouse button, move to the next key and click it quickly.)
Syzygy Moon (from Otona)
https://www.youtube.com/v/UoRpddRYBTM
This piece from the latest album Otona is rather classical, but they had been performing more pop tunes and I like it! ("Microtonal pop for the 21st Century.")
Fauna Grotesque (from Complete Studio Recordings)
https://www.youtube.com/v/cA9AXvD09CM
Very interesting stuff!
Here is another xenharmonic synth that can be worked by clicking:
http://nicksworldofsynthesizers.com/flashorgan.php
Quote from: milk on August 27, 2014, 10:32:06 PM
Very interesting stuff!
Here is another xenharmonic synth that can be worked by clicking:
http://nicksworldofsynthesizers.com/flashorgan.php
That's a neat keyboard. There are 22 tones in a octave. The problem (or maybe not a problem for the music they create) with Shimizu's 43-tone organ is that, because a standard keyboard was utilized, the number of octaves and the interval that can be covered by one hand are limited. It is interesting to see how composers realize microtonal tunings on actual instruments. Wyschnegradsky used 2 pianos for quarter-tone, and Haas used 6 pianos for twelfth-tone!
Bill Alves (http://www.billalves.com/home.html) is an American composer and video artist, mainly using gamelan. He is the author of Music of the Peoples of the World (http://www.amazon.com/dp/1133307949/) and wrote many articles about just intonation (http://www.billalves.com/writing.html), which I want to check out soon. He also leads The HMC American Gamelan (http://www.billalves.com/hmcgamelan.html), an ensemble of gamelan tuned in a specific just intonation.
Mystic Canyon (2008) for violin and American gamelan
https://www.youtube.com/v/AdRmxV-sy5w
I am frequently listening to these albums recently. The combination of violin/cello and gamelan is really nice.
Mystic Canyon: Music for Violin & Gamelan
[asin]B00CLCXFLQ[/asin]
Mystic Canyon (2008) for vn, American gamelan
Concerto for Violin and Gamelan (2008)
Imbal-Imbalan: New Music for Gamelan
[asin]B001G2JO94[/asin]
Imbal-Imbalan (2001) for Pelog Javanese gamelan
Gending Chilao (1999) for Cello and Javanese gamelan (pelog)
Tingklik Toccata (1996) for Tingklik, suling, electronic percussion, and gong
Elegy for Bill Colvig (2000) for Violin and Javanese gamelan (pelog)
In-Yo (1998) for Shakuhachi or xiao and computer disc
Gending Vogel Flats (2002) for Violin and Javanese gamelan (pelog)
Angel's Crest (2007) for Javanese gamelan (slendro)
Elegy for Lou Harrison (2003) for Cello and gamelan (pelog)
Quote from: torut on September 16, 2014, 08:49:14 PM
Bill Alves (http://www.billalves.com/home.html) is an American composer and video artist, mainly using gamelan. He is the author of Music of the Peoples of the World (http://www.amazon.com/dp/1133307949/) and wrote many articles about just intonation (http://www.billalves.com/writing.html), which I want to check out soon. He also leads The HMC American Gamelan (http://www.billalves.com/hmcgamelan.html), an ensemble of gamelan tuned in a specific just intonation.
Mystic Canyon (2008) for violin and American gamelan
https://www.youtube.com/v/AdRmxV-sy5w
I am frequently listening to these albums recently. The combination of violin/cello and gamelan is really nice.
Mystic Canyon: Music for Violin & Gamelan
[asin]B00CLCXFLQ[/asin]
Mystic Canyon (2008) for vn, American gamelan
Concerto for Violin and Gamelan (2008)
Imbal-Imbalan: New Music for Gamelan
[asin]B001G2JO94[/asin]
Imbal-Imbalan (2001) for Pelog Javanese gamelan
Gending Chilao (1999) for Cello and Javanese gamelan (pelog)
Tingklik Toccata (1996) for Tingklik, suling, electronic percussion, and gong
Elegy for Bill Colvig (2000) for Violin and Javanese gamelan (pelog)
In-Yo (1998) for Shakuhachi or xiao and computer disc
Gending Vogel Flats (2002) for Violin and Javanese gamelan (pelog)
Angel's Crest (2007) for Javanese gamelan (slendro)
Elegy for Lou Harrison (2003) for Cello and gamelan (pelog)
Great sounding stuff!! Thanks for posting!!!!
Quote from: milk on September 17, 2014, 01:40:15 AM
Great sounding stuff!! Thanks for posting!!!!
My pleasure!
I found another interesting composer.
Mamoru Fujieda -
Patterns of Plantshttps://www.youtube.com/v/n36eCAoIa4Y https://www.youtube.com/v/9oYcKARaxd0
Influenced by Harry Partch and Lou Harrison, Mamoru Fujieda composed
Patterns of Plants between 1996 and 2011, working with "Plantron," a device that measures electrical fluctuations of plants. He composed a series of short pieces based on the measured data, using various tunings such as Pythagorean temperament, extended just intonation, Werckmeister's temperament, etc. I don't know how much he "composed" in a traditional way, but the pieces do not sound "random" at all, unlike Cage's chance operation works. Very listenable.
[asin]B000003YT7[/asin]
Quote from: torut on September 18, 2014, 06:34:40 PM
My pleasure!
I found another interesting composer.
Mamoru Fujieda - Patterns of Plants
https://www.youtube.com/v/n36eCAoIa4Y https://www.youtube.com/v/9oYcKARaxd0
Influenced by Harry Partch and Lou Harrison, Mamoru Fujieda composed Patterns of Plants between 1996 and 2011, working with "Plantron," a device that measures electrical fluctuations of plants. He composed a series of short pieces based on the measured data, using various tunings such as Pythagorean temperament, extended just intonation, Werckmeister's temperament, etc. I don't know how much he "composed" in a traditional way, but the pieces do not sound "random" at all, unlike Cage's chance operation works. Very listenable.
[asin]B000003YT7[/asin]
These are quite enjoyable.
Quote from: torut on September 18, 2014, 06:34:40 PM
My pleasure!
I found another interesting composer.
Mamoru Fujieda - Patterns of Plants
I like those two albums a lot. An old review (http://harmonicsdb.wordpress.com/2012/01/19/mamoru-fujieda-patterns-of-plants-ii/).
There's a new solo piano album of this music in 12tet by Sarah Cahill. (http://www.pinnarecords.com/products/530282-mamoru-fujieda-patterns-of-plants-sarah-cahill-piano)
Quote from: 7/4 on September 21, 2014, 10:54:01 AM
I like those two albums a lot. An old review (http://harmonicsdb.wordpress.com/2012/01/19/mamoru-fujieda-patterns-of-plants-ii/).
There's a new solo piano album of this music in 12tet by Sarah Cahill. (http://www.pinnarecords.com/products/530282-mamoru-fujieda-patterns-of-plants-sarah-cahill-piano)
Thanks for the review link. (also found other interesting reviews in your blog around that time.)
I would like to know if Cahill's piano is tuned in JI or other temperament. Often JI works for piano or keyboard are played by the composers. Young, Riley, Michael Harrison came to my mind. (Probably because tuning the instrument and the notation are difficult?) Couldn't find any description on the Fujieda's web site (not updated for a long time.)
Quote from: torut on September 22, 2014, 08:45:32 PM
Thanks for the review link. (also found other interesting reviews in your blog around that time.)
I would like to know if Cahill's piano is tuned in JI or other temperament. Often JI works for piano or keyboard are played by the composers. Young, Riley, Michael Harrison came to my mind. (Probably because tuning the instrument and the notation are difficult?) Couldn't find any description on the Fujieda's web site (not updated for a long time.)
I think her piano is tuned in 12tet. I'll do a bit of research to be sure.
Just Intonation is not a temperament.
Quote from: 7/4 on September 23, 2014, 05:59:31 AM
I think her piano is tuned in 12tet. I'll do a bit of research to be sure.
Sorry, you already wrote that it's 12tet. (I mistook it for 12th set of the work.)
Quote
Just Intonation is not a temperament.
JI means that each pitch is defined as a ratio of positive integer, and there exist many different temperaments that use JI. Is my understanding correct?
Quote from: torut on September 23, 2014, 08:11:59 AM
JI means that each pitch is defined as a ratio of positive integer, and there exist many different temperaments that use JI. Is my understanding correct?
I always thought a temperament is adjusting pure intervals (JI), so they're more in tune in all 12 keys.
Read the Wiki and see if it agrees with me. I'm tired and I need to go to sleep.
In musical tuning, a temperament is a system of tuning which slightly compromises the pure intervals of just intonation in order to meet other requirements of the system. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_temperament)
Quote from: 7/4 on September 23, 2014, 06:04:38 PM
I always thought a temperament is adjusting pure intervals (JI), so they're more in tune in all 12 keys.
Read the Wiki and see if it agrees with me. I'm tired and I need to go to sleep.
In musical tuning, a temperament is a system of tuning which slightly compromises the pure intervals of just intonation in order to meet other requirements of the system. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_temperament)
Probably you (and wikipedia) are right. I may have been confused because I saw terms such as "just scale," "just temperament," (even "just intonation temperament") together with "just intonation." I'll study further. Thanks again, and good night!
Todd Harrop
http://thmuses.wordpress.com/ (http://thmuses.wordpress.com/)
Der Zauberzephir (2011) for solo Bohlen-Pierce tenor clarinet
https://www.youtube.com/v/erE-t5m3R1g
Bohlen–Pierce scale is a non-octave scale based on the pitches of odd ratios.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohlen%E2%80%93Pierce_scale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohlen%E2%80%93Pierce_scale)
Fifteen Short Pieces (2012) for fifth-tone piano and delay
https://soundcloud.com/puffinwrangler/fifteen-short-pieces-for-piano (https://soundcloud.com/puffinwrangler/fifteen-short-pieces-for-piano)
Using a symmetrical scale of 15 notes selected from a tuning of 30 equal-tempered notes per octave.
Erling Wold (http://www.erlingwold.com/index.html)
Dance of the Polygamists
http://www.erlingwold.com/works/mol/03_mol_polygamists.mp3 (http://www.erlingwold.com/works/mol/03_mol_polygamists.mp3)
Crash
http://www.erlingwold.com/works/mol/13_mol_crash.mp3 (http://www.erlingwold.com/works/mol/13_mol_crash.mp3)
Music of Love (http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/erlingwold1)
(http://images.cdbaby.name/e/r/erlingwold1.jpg)
I Weep (http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/erlingwold2)
(http://images.cdbaby.name/e/r/erlingwold2.jpg)
A nice collection of microtonal tunes in a variety of styles, for synthesizers and instruments. I like most of them very much. It seems that he is recently focusing on soundtracks and opera.
Many thanks for the links and introducing us to the World of Wold! :o :o :o 0:) 0:) 0:) (Temptation!!!)
His website contains mention of a Latin Missa, which is interesting, given some of the things on his website ("Libertine" ? Libertines tend not to be particularly religious, but who needs religion more than a libertine? 0:) )
http://www.erlingwold.com/ (http://www.erlingwold.com/)
Wold's Missa is very beautiful. It is quite different from Music of Love or I Weep, but there are contemporary elements, sometimes sounding like film music. I have not checked out his soundtracks, and I want to do it soon. The whole recording of Missa can be downloaded from "WORKS" page of his web site. (The quality is good, they are 256kbps mp3.)
I am interested in Masses of modern/contemporary composers (I like Daniel Lentz's Missa Umbrarum a lot) and impressed with the list of many 20th/21st century composers on Wikipedia's Mass section (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_(music)#20th_and_21st_century).
Quote from: torut on September 18, 2014, 06:34:40 PM
My pleasure!
I found another interesting composer.
Mamoru Fujieda - Patterns of Plants
Quote from: 7/4 on September 21, 2014, 10:54:01 AM
I like those two albums a lot. An old review (http://harmonicsdb.wordpress.com/2012/01/19/mamoru-fujieda-patterns-of-plants-ii/).
There's a new solo piano album of this music in 12tet by Sarah Cahill. (http://www.pinnarecords.com/products/530282-mamoru-fujieda-patterns-of-plants-sarah-cahill-piano)
(https://media2.wnyc.org/i/620/372/l/80/1/pinna-2-cover-664.png)
Q2 Music Album of the Week: streaming audio (http://www.wqxr.org/#!/story/mamoru-fujiedas-derives-miniatures-electrical-activity-plants/)
"This is actually the very first time that the music of Patterns of Plants has been recorded on the piano. On two previous recordings released on Tzadik in 1997 and 2008, Fujieda employs the koto, sho, viol de gamba, harpsichord and the violin. It is quite a fascinating approach to present these works in equal temperament. There is a great deal of beauty locked in the sonorities that transcends temperament. However, the listener will absorb the music in an entirely distinct way from other readings of Patterns of Plants."
Quote from: 7/4 on October 06, 2014, 04:54:02 PM
(https://media2.wnyc.org/i/620/372/l/80/1/pinna-2-cover-664.png)
Q2 Music Album of the Week: streaming audio (http://www.wqxr.org/#!/story/mamoru-fujiedas-derives-miniatures-electrical-activity-plants/)
"This is actually the very first time that the music of Patterns of Plants has been recorded on the piano. On two previous recordings released on Tzadik in 1997 and 2008, Fujieda employs the koto, sho, viol de gamba, harpsichord and the violin. It is quite a fascinating approach to present these works in equal temperament. There is a great deal of beauty locked in the sonorities that transcends temperament. However, the listener will absorb the music in an entirely distinct way from other readings of Patterns of Plants."
Thank you for the link. So, it's equal temperament. Very decent and lovely. The resemblance to Baroque music is mentioned in the article, and I was reminded of F. Couperin's keyboard works played on piano.
Barbara Benary (b. 1946) - Sun on Snow
[asin]B000HT3RZE[/asin]
Aural Shoehorning (1997)
Sun on Snow (1985)
Barang I & II (1975)
Downtown Steel (1993)
liner notes
http://www.dramonline.org/albums/barbara-benary-sun-on-snow/notes
Aural Shoehorning (1. Plainsong)
https://www.youtube.com/v/__7AR6nCmKQ
This is a very strange piece. It starts with a nice gamelan tune, then the melody is played in different tunings at the same time on gamelan, piano, percussions. Yet it does not sound weird or eerie.
Benary was a member of Glass's ensemble and co-founder of Gamelan Son of Lion. The album Sun on Snow is the only album of her music but it presents the wonderful world of Benary's music, containing a lot of elements such as gamelan, minimalism, rock, jazz, improvisation, Indonesian modes, beautiful song, ...
Quote from: torut on October 08, 2014, 04:50:20 PM
Barbara Benary (b. 1946) - Sun on Snow
[asin]B000HT3RZE[/asin]
Aural Shoehorning (1997)
Sun on Snow (1985)
Barang I & II (1975)
Downtown Steel (1993)
liner notes
http://www.dramonline.org/albums/barbara-benary-sun-on-snow/notes
Aural Shoehorning (1. Plainsong)
https://www.youtube.com/v/__7AR6nCmKQ
This is a very strange piece. It starts with a nice gamelan tune, then the melody is played in different tunings at the same time on gamelan, piano, percussions. Yet it does not sound weird or eerie.
Benary was a member of Glass's ensemble and co-founder of Gamelan Son of Lion. The album Sun on Snow is the only album of her music but it presents the wonderful world of Benary's music, containing a lot of elements such as gamelan, minimalism, rock, jazz, improvisation, Indonesian modes, beautiful song, ...
Thanks for posting. I've purchased this and am much looking forward to it. I have to admit I've had trouble with the Fujieda/Cahill. I like it but I don't love it or hate it - which makes me not like it. Shall I keep going? There are different reasons for giving up on something. Some music I find difficult and come back to later and see the light. But I wonder if the same can happen with music that just seems mediocre now. Have you ever thought something was milquetoast and later grown to think it's great? I'm really interested in the Benary and really interested in what can be done with gamelan. But I have to admit I've not yet been taken by L. Harrison so much either. But I have high hopes for Benary!
Quote from: milk on October 10, 2014, 04:34:42 AM
Thanks for posting. I've purchased this and am much looking forward to it. I have to admit I've had trouble with the Fujieda/Cahill. I like it but I don't love it or hate it - which makes me not like it. Shall I keep going? There are different reasons for giving up on something. Some music I find difficult and come back to later and see the light. But I wonder if the same can happen with music that just seems mediocre now. Have you ever thought something was milquetoast and later grown to think it's great? I'm really interested in the Benary and really interested in what can be done with gamelan. But I have to admit I've not yet been taken by L. Harrison so much either. But I have high hopes for Benary!
It happened to me too often that I thought some music to be uninteresting, boring, meaningless, and after few months, or even several years later, I found it very nice and became to love it a lot. So, I no longer trust my initial impression or judgement. :) I hope you will enjoy Benary! I found that album when I was searching for albums of Downtown Ensemble (for Mary Jane Leach's music.)
I am also interested in contemporary music composed for gamelan. I was really fascinated by Bill Alves's music. Which works of Lou Harrison did you listen to? I have
Gamelan Music and
Piano Concerto (for piano tuned in well temperament), which are a bit too smooth but quite nice.
This is a nice concert of Gamelan Son of Lion, led by Benary. It's so gentle and peaceful. I especially liked the pieces of 13:00~19:00 (falling), 35:00~43:00, and the last short piece of Lou Harrison (57:00~60:00).
https://www.youtube.com/v/k1DP6EUmD9k
Quote from: torut on October 10, 2014, 07:06:48 PM
It happened to me too often that I thought some music to be uninteresting, boring, meaningless, and after few months, or even several years later, I found it very nice and became to love it a lot. So, I no longer trust my initial impression or judgement. :) I hope you will enjoy Benary! I found that album when I was searching for albums of Downtown Ensemble (for Mary Jane Leach's music.)
I am also interested in contemporary music composed for gamelan. I was really fascinated by Bill Alves's music. Which works of Lou Harrison did you listen to? I have Gamelan Music and Piano Concerto (for piano tuned in well temperament), which are a bit too smooth but quite nice.
Hmm...I have to check out Alves. So far I like what I've heard of the Benary album. I have this Harrison:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61P0SrDCmrL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
I'll try it again some day but "too smooth" is the reaction I had.
Quote from: milk on October 11, 2014, 07:18:43 AM
Hmm...I have to check out Alves. So far I like what I've heard of the Benary album. I have this Harrison:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61P0SrDCmrL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
I'll try it again some day but "too smooth" is the reaction I had.
Lou Harrison's music sounds so natural that it may not have as much impact as Partch's or Young's ... ?
I listened to these very fine albums of JI guitars by John Schneider. I again realized that Partch's music is really unique.
Just Guitars: Microtonal Music for Guitar
[asin]B000096JH4[/asin]
Carter Scholz: Rhythmicon I
Lou Harrison: Scenes from Nek Chand, Tandy's Tango, Cinna, Palace Music, Plaint & Variations on 'Song of Palestine', Serenado por Gitaro
Harry Partch: Letter from Hobo Pablo, December, 1942, Three Intrusions
Terry Riley: Harp of New Albion (Very nice!)
John Schneider: Lament (also included in
Beyond 12; a beautiful piece)
Lou Harrison: Por Gitaro
[asin]B0012OVFUM[/asin]
The Tuning of Lou Harrison - Por Gitaro: Suites for Tuned Guitars, performed by John Schneider (Bill Alves) (http://www.billalves.com/porgitaro/porgitarotuning.html)
Lou Harrison, Scenes from Nek Chand (2002), Played by John Schneider
https://www.youtube.com/v/sbTbgpW6s3A
Quote from: torut on October 08, 2014, 04:50:20 PM
Barbara Benary (b. 1946) - Sun on Snow
[asin]B000HT3RZE[/asin]
Aural Shoehorning (1997)
Sun on Snow (1985)
Barang I & II (1975)
Downtown Steel (1993)
liner notes
http://www.dramonline.org/albums/barbara-benary-sun-on-snow/notes
Aural Shoehorning (1. Plainsong)
https://www.youtube.com/v/__7AR6nCmKQ
This is a very strange piece. It starts with a nice gamelan tune, then the melody is played in different tunings at the same time on gamelan, piano, percussions. Yet it does not sound weird or eerie.
Benary was a member of Glass's ensemble and co-founder of Gamelan Son of Lion. The album Sun on Snow is the only album of her music but it presents the wonderful world of Benary's music, containing a lot of elements such as gamelan, minimalism, rock, jazz, improvisation, Indonesian modes, beautiful song, ...
So far I like this album very much. I've just been listening to Aural Shoehorning. The way she uses gamelan with "western" instruments is surprisingly effective.
Quote from: torut on October 10, 2014, 07:06:48 PM
It happened to me too often that I thought some music to be uninteresting, boring, meaningless, and after few months, or even several years later, I found it very nice and became to love it a lot. So, I no longer trust my initial impression or judgement. :) I hope you will enjoy Benary! I found that album when I was searching for albums of Downtown Ensemble (for Mary Jane Leach's music.)
I am also interested in contemporary music composed for gamelan. I was really fascinated by Bill Alves's music. Which works of Lou Harrison did you listen to? I have Gamelan Music and Piano Concerto (for piano tuned in well temperament), which are a bit too smooth but quite nice.
I like the Benary until singing starts. I've persisted with Cahill's Fujieda "plants" album and finding that I'm starting to like it better and better. But the samples of the composer's microtonal version with, I think, Kotos, are so different-sounding. I wonder about how it compares and whether I should venture into that as well.
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0000/829/MI0000829179.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)I felt I needed to get this. I'm starting to think that this is very interesting music indeed.
Quote from: torut on October 08, 2014, 04:50:20 PM
Barbara Benary (b. 1946) - Sun on Snow
[asin]B000HT3RZE[/asin]
Aural Shoehorning (1997)
Sun on Snow (1985)
Barang I & II (1975)
Downtown Steel (1993)
liner notes
http://www.dramonline.org/albums/barbara-benary-sun-on-snow/notes
Aural Shoehorning (1. Plainsong)
https://www.youtube.com/v/__7AR6nCmKQ
This is a very strange piece. It starts with a nice gamelan tune, then the melody is played in different tunings at the same time on gamelan, piano, percussions. Yet it does not sound weird or eerie.
Benary was a member of Glass's ensemble and co-founder of Gamelan Son of Lion. The album Sun on Snow is the only album of her music but it presents the wonderful world of Benary's music, containing a lot of elements such as gamelan, minimalism, rock, jazz, improvisation, Indonesian modes, beautiful song, ...
Very nice. I'm intrigued.
Quote from: milk on October 24, 2014, 07:59:20 PM
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0000/829/MI0000829179.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)I felt I needed to get this. I'm starting to think that this is very interesting music indeed.
My favorites are The Fourth Collection (violin) in that second volume and The Third Collection (koto) in the first volume. Some of the collections are very melodic considering how they were created. I liked Cahill's piano version too and will purchase it.
Quote from: Ken B on October 24, 2014, 09:46:39 PM
Very nice. I'm intrigued.
I am glad you like it. I enjoyed Benary's Sun on Snow so much that I purchased Philip Corner's
A Corner of Gamelan - A Selection of Compositions for Oriental and Western Instruments, expecting something similar to Aural Shoehorning, based on the title, the cover art (piano & gamelan), and the fact that Barbara Benary is featured on two tracks. However, it turned out completely different. It's not like traditional Gamelan (though I don't know it very well), Lou Harrison, Benary, or Alves. Corner's music is more primitive/austere, experimental (Cagean?), minimal, and meditative. I sort of like it and need to listen to his music more.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51OtYEsoB9L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
http://www.amazon.com/Corner-Gamelan-Selection-Compositions-Instruments/dp/B00O4S2RG4 (http://www.amazon.com/Corner-Gamelan-Selection-Compositions-Instruments/dp/B00O4S2RG4)
(I couldn't find a CD version.)
Ear Garden (American Festival of Microtonal Music, 2007)
(http://images.cdbaby.name/p/i/pitchrecs4.jpg)
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/pitchrecs4 (http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/pitchrecs4)
Johnny Reinhard: COSMIC RAYS - string quartet
Terry Riley: IN C IN JUST INTONATION - Just-fretted guitars, viola, harpsichord, kanon, guitar pulse
Philip Corner: (two) MICROTONAL MELODIES - trombone, theremin
John Cage: TEN - flute, oboe, Bb clarinet, trombone, piano, 2 violins, viola, cello, percussion
I bought this mainly for Riley's In C in just intonation. Probably because of the instrumentation and fewer number of performers, it sounds calm and meditative, reminiscent of the koto version (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g83TanjJ20). Very beautiful.
The compositions of Reinhard and Corner are really strange and difficult to me. The extensive use of glissandi caused sort of dizziness. The tags of the album on CDBABY is "Classic, landscapes, instrumental, weird, unusal" ;D
Since I already had another recording of Cage's Ten, it was not my primary interest, but anyway it is a very nice music in 84 equal temperament. Here is a good article by Todd Harrop on Cage's microtonal music.
84ed2 (1): John Cage and Microtonality (http://thmuses.wordpress.com/2014/08/09/84ed2-1-john-cage-and-microtonality/#more-1020)
Quote from: torut on October 26, 2014, 12:28:18 PM
Ear Garden (American Festival of Microtonal Music, 2007)
(http://images.cdbaby.name/p/i/pitchrecs4.jpg)
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/pitchrecs4 (http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/pitchrecs4)
Philip Corner: (two) MICROTONAL MELODIES - trombone, theremin
The compositions of Reinhard and Corner are really strange and difficult to me. The extensive use of glissandi caused sort of dizziness. The tags of the album on CDBABY is "Classic, landscapes, instrumental, weird, unusual" ;D
A microtonal use of the theremin is practically guaranteed to be full of glissandi: the instrument is difficult enough with the regular 12 tones, let alone adding more/ Is the work in quarter-tones or third-tones or ....?
Quote from: Cato on October 26, 2014, 12:46:03 PM
A microtonal use of the theremin is practically guaranteed to be full of glissandi: the instrument is difficult enough with the regular 12 tones, let alone adding more/ Is the work in quarter-tones or third-tones or ....?
It's difficult to know. To me, it sounds like just gliding up and down continuously. The two movements are called "polymelody" and "harmonic stasis."
I hope this album notes on CDBaby (https://origin.cdbaby.com/cd/pitchrecs4) helps.
[...] Besides incisive visual graphics to be interpreted musically, the score offers the following thoughtful designs by the composer:
...they move through glissandi
chasing each other at different speeds.
a play of approaching a unison and hovering on the microtones
teasing by being pushed apart again one leading and the other
following then a change of who chases who sometimes
actually coming completely in tune though never persisting there
staying around as if glued to each other maintaining out-of-
tuneness the smallest ones audible to the ears
often their course slow as to be painfully so but also playful
at times sweeping far away with fast movement.
Quote from: torut on October 26, 2014, 01:09:08 PM
maintaining out-of-tuneness the smallest ones audible to the ears
often their course slow as to be painfully so but also playful
at times sweeping far away with fast movement.[/i]
According to scientists, 1/12 of a tone is on average the smallest difference distinguishable. So that gives a clue!
Quote from: torut on October 26, 2014, 12:28:18 PM
Ear Garden (American Festival of Microtonal Music, 2007)
(http://images.cdbaby.name/p/i/pitchrecs4.jpg)
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/pitchrecs4 (http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/pitchrecs4)
Johnny Reinhard: COSMIC RAYS - string quartet
Terry Riley: IN C IN JUST INTONATION - Just-fretted guitars, viola, harpsichord, kanon, guitar pulse
Philip Corner: (two) MICROTONAL MELODIES - trombone, theremin
John Cage: TEN - flute, oboe, Bb clarinet, trombone, piano, 2 violins, viola, cello, percussion
I bought this mainly for Riley's In C in just intonation. Probably because of the instrumentation and fewer number of performers, it sounds calm and meditative, reminiscent of the koto version (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g83TanjJ20). Very beautiful.
I was at that performance! I've never heard the recording. I thought the performance was magic.
Quote from: 7/4 on October 29, 2014, 03:50:56 AM
I was at that performance! I've never heard the recording. I thought the performance was magic.
That is great. It is my favorite version of In C so far, though I have heard only 5 versions.
There are many interesting stuff on AFMM (http://www.afmm.org/music.html). I want to check them out sometime.
Quote from: Cato on October 26, 2014, 05:56:00 PM
According to scientists, 1/12 of a tone is on average the smallest difference distinguishable. So that gives a clue!
Average untrained listener? I am not sure if I can distinguish such a difference. :D Johnny Reinhard, the founder of AFMM, developed "128 tuning" (128 tones per octave). I think it is not equal temperament, but the difference should be much smaller than 1/12 tone. His music is quite esoteric to me, but I found this
An improvisation in Reinhard 128 Tuning by Chris Vaisvil is pretty and beautiful, sounding like music from the other world.
https://www.youtube.com/v/CiCRI-i7-gs
Robin Hayward - Plateau Square (2011) for Microtonal F tuba plus surround-sound system
https://www.youtube.com/v/pEeXyAHegyI
Robin Hayward: Nouveau Saxhorn Nouveau Basse ~ elegy to a failed instrument (2014)
[asin]B00JJXYVNQ[/asin]
Microtub: Star System (2014)
[asin]B00NHPM9CW[/asin]
(The CD will be released on November 25, but mp3 album can be downloaded now from emusic.)
Robin Hayward is a composer and player of microtonal tuba he developed in 2009. His music is mostly static, in the same vein as Young's music. Nouveau Saxhorn Nouveau Basse contains two solo pieces for microtonal tuba (with loud speakers) and a duo piece with guitar. The title refers to an instrument Adolphe Sax invented. Microtub is a microtonal tuba ensemble consisting of Hayward (microtonal F tuba), Kristoffer Lo (C tuba) and Martin Taxt (C tuba). The musics are very slow and the sounds are intriguingly beautiful.
POSTCAGE (http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/postcage)
(http://images.cdbaby.name/p/o/postcage.jpg)
Works of Maria De Alvear, Dionysis Boukouvalas, David Kotlowy, Marc Chan, David Beardsley, Sebastián Jatz Rawicz, Walter Horn, David Toub, Sergio Luque, John Prokop, Jürg Frey, Arved Ashby, Robert Moran, Philip Glass, J.R. Dooley
For Feldman (http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/forfeldman)
(http://images.cdbaby.name/f/o/forfeldman.jpg)
Feldman's early string quartets (1954, 1956) and works of David Beardsley, David Toub, David Kotlowy, John Prokop.
These nice tribute albums contains microtonal music of David Beardsley.
November Test Pattern, the ecstasy of electric trees weeping in the twilight including recumbent bright insects and relevant footnotes (2009) for just intonation sine tones
as beautiful as a crescent of a new moon on a cloudless spring evening (2004) for string quartet
It's really difficult to describe the music. In addition to Cage and Feldman, La Monte Young's influence can be heard, especially in November Test Pattern ..., which gave me a strange, otherworldly feeling. as beautiful as a crescent ... starts like Cage's number pieces (with less silence), but it grows into a very interesting sound world during its long duration.
These are some of my favorite pieces. Many excellent works can be found on the soundcloud site and youtube.
Xouoxno 1 (1995-2000)
https://www.youtube.com/v/GSDlWRMG_Zk
Earth Music As Background To The Bells? (2013)
https://soundcloud.com/biink/earth-music-as-background-to (https://soundcloud.com/biink/earth-music-as-background-to)
...and this too:
Venus and a Moon setting in the West, a view through the trees (https://soundcloud.com/davidbeardsley-microtones/venus-and-a-moon-setting-in)
Quote from: 7/4 on December 05, 2014, 07:58:08 AM
...and this too:
Venus and a Moon setting in the West, a view through the trees (https://soundcloud.com/davidbeardsley-microtones/venus-and-a-moon-setting-in)
Thank you, I had forgotten that other account of soundcloud. It's very nice dark ambient.
I ordered
IDEAS (http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/ivesharrisonccbpcvr) (including
Sonic Bloom) which was back-order. Now it's "out of stock" on the site...
I don't know what's up with that, I'll send a note to AFMM and ask.
Sonic Bloom is related to Venus and a Moon, same tuning, same patch.
I recommended it to someone yesterday and they told me the same thing.
Thank you very much!
There are also some full albums on Biink! but they are out of print? Any plan of re-releasing, or distributing them through bandcamp etc.?
Quote from: torut on December 06, 2014, 09:50:20 AM
Thank you very much!
There are also some full albums on Biink! but they are out of print? Any plan of re-releasing, or distributing them through bandcamp etc.?
nah!
Quote from: 7/4 on December 06, 2014, 01:55:20 PM
nah!
I see. I wish they will become available in one way or another.
I found myself purchasing music from labels directly or through bandcamp more and more. Recently, I found Andrew McIntosh's Hyenas in the Temples of Pleasure (https://populistrecords.bandcamp.com/album/andrew-mcintosh-hyenas-in-the-temples-of-pleasure) including his microtonal works. I am really glad a full-length album of his works has been released. At first, the music sounded simple, but its effect is mesmerizing. (The scores can be downloaded from Plainsound (http://www.andrewnathanielmcintosh.com).)
(https://f1.bcbits.com/img/a3290437172_2.jpg)
Quote from: torut on October 08, 2014, 04:50:20 PM
Aural Shoehorning (1. Plainsong)
https://www.youtube.com/v/__7AR6nCmKQ
What a fascinating piece, despite being so simple. It and some other pieces posted on this thread have made me realize there's a lot of avenues to microtonality other than just filling in the spaces between B and Bb and suchlike. I'll watch this thread with interest.
Quote from: Fagotterdämmerung on December 06, 2014, 09:21:57 PM
What a fascinating piece, despite being so simple. It and some other pieces posted on this thread have made me realize there's a lot of avenues to microtonality other than just filling in the spaces between B and Bb and suchlike. I'll watch this thread with interest.
I think microtonality has limitless possibilities. It could be one of the major sources of future music. Yes it is not new, and there are already many tunings of ancient music or non-western traditional music which are not equal temperament, but the possibilities have not been exhausted yet, I suppose. Until recently I didn't know that there are so many composers pursuing microtones/JI, not only just as one of coloring techniques but also to achieve completely new sonic world, and I am sure that there are many more I don't know yet.
Quote from: torut on December 07, 2014, 09:18:50 PM
I think microtonality has limitless possibilities. It could be one of the major sources of future music. Yes it is not new, and there are already many tunings of ancient music or non-western traditional music which are not equal temperament, but the possibilities have not been exhausted yet, I suppose. Until recently I didn't know that there are so many composers pursuing microtones/JI, not only just as one of coloring techniques but also to achieve completely new sonic world, and I am sure that there are many more I don't know yet.
I still want to try to conceive of some kind of pop music with microtones/JI. I agree. I think there is a lot to be done here.
Dave Seidel (http://mysterybear.net/): ~60Hz
http://recordings.irritablehedgehog.com/album/dave-seidel-60-hz (http://recordings.irritablehedgehog.com/album/dave-seidel-60-hz)
(http://f1.bcbits.com/img/a3522402462_2.jpg)
"I am indebted to La Monte Young (via Kyle Gann's writings) for the concept of 60Hz as a tuning base, a practice that has suffused my work since I first learned of it. Young is also my primary influence in the use of rational intonation and sine waves. Henry Cowell's idea of rhythmic patterns based on pitch relations inspired the binaural beating patterns I employed through this piece.
More generally, I am continually inspired by, and learning from, the musics of Eliane Radigue, Laurie Spiegel, Mary Jane Leach, and Lois V Vierk." - Dave Seidel
I am fascinated with the sounds of pure sine tones. I am not sure why I want to keep listening to this. It calms my mind.
Randy Gibson (http://www.randy-gibson.com/index.html) studied with La Monte Young, wrote tuning theories called The Four Pillars. Aqua Madora, for just intonation piano and sine wave drones, is a beautiful piece. Highly recommended to anyone who loves Young's The Well-Tuned Piano. It has strumming parts like Young's piece, but more melodic overall.
Aqua Madora V-ii-2008 21:07:26" - 21:54:40" (NYC)
bandcamp: http://randygibson.bandcamp.com/album/aqua-madora-v-ii-2008-21-07-26-21-54-40-nyc (http://randygibson.bandcamp.com/album/aqua-madora-v-ii-2008-21-07-26-21-54-40-nyc)
(https://f1.bcbits.com/img/a0960005486_2.jpg)
Thanks for posting these. I'm considering all these recent postings for a purchase.
Quote from: milk on December 12, 2014, 09:21:08 PM
Thanks for posting these. I'm considering all these recent postings for a purchase.
Bandcamp's list of "just intonation" tag (https://bandcamp.com/tag/just-intonation (https://bandcamp.com/tag/just-intonation)) may be interesting. So far, I just checked out composers whose names I heard of or albums of reliable labels (Populist Records, Irritable Hedgehog), and I don't know about the qualities of other works.
I found this beautiful album of Larry Polansky on the list. Mostly quiet, and two pieces are based on my favorite Jazz standards. Unfortunately, the album cannot be purchased (the label Artifact Recordings went out of business?), but you can listen to the tracks on the bandcamp web page. I like it very much.
Larry Polansky -
Simple Harmonic Motion (Works for Instruments in Just Intonation)
https://artifactrecordings.bandcamp.com/album/simple-harmonic-motion-art-1011-1994 (https://artifactrecordings.bandcamp.com/album/simple-harmonic-motion-art-1011-1994)
Another You, Variations on Jazz standard
There will never be another you (I believe) for solo harp in just intonation
Movement for Andréa Smith, My Funny Valentine for just string quartet
Movement for Lou Harrison, for just bass quartet
Horn, for horn and computer
(https://f1.bcbits.com/img/a0470202681_2.jpg)
Another Polansky album
Change (https://artifactrecordings.bandcamp.com/album/change-art-2023-2002), containing
Piano Study #5, a piece
"written for Fender Rhodes in a non-octave replicating, 13-limit just intonation", is nice too. Also OOP, but the mp3 files can be downloaded here: http://eamusic.dartmouth.edu/~larry/mp3_files/change_cd/mp3s/ (http://eamusic.dartmouth.edu/~larry/mp3_files/change_cd/mp3s/) The other works of the album are quite experimental, including computer-composed music.
(https://f1.bcbits.com/img/a4126549648_2.jpg)
Simple Harmonic Motion is an old favorite, an amazing album. I've had it for years!
Quote from: James on December 13, 2014, 08:09:41 AM
https://www.youtube.com/v/NJfI_wwLbQs
I tried to listen to this with headphones, but that moving sound image position caused me sort of motion sickness. :D I'll try it later with speakers.
Quote from: 7/4 on December 14, 2014, 09:32:39 AM
Simple Harmonic Motion is an old favorite, an amazing album. I've had it for years!
Larry Polansky is a very interesting composer. I want to check out his other projects.
I love this piece.
Larry Polansky: freeHorn (solo JI National 2012 Version)
https://www.youtube.com/v/fBWC1ea-CwQ
Aaron Andrew Hunt - The Equal Tempered Keyboard, Book 1
Contrapuntal compositions for keyboard in every equal subdivision of the octave between 7 and 20 tones.
https://aaronandrewhunt.bandcamp.com/album/the-equal-tempered-keyboard-book-1 (https://aaronandrewhunt.bandcamp.com/album/the-equal-tempered-keyboard-book-1)
(https://f1.bcbits.com/img/a2253852815_2.jpg)
1. Two Part Invention in 7ET
2. Fantasia in 8ET
3. Fugue a4 in 8ET
4. Prelude in 9ET
5. Prelude in 10ET
6. Prelude in 11ET
7. Two-Part Invention in 12ET
8. Prelude in 13ET
9. Two-Part Invention in 13ET
10. Prelude in 14ET
11. Prelude (Elegy) in 15ET
12. Fugue a3 in 15ET
13. Prelude in 16ET
14. Two-Part Invention in 17ET
15. Prelude in 18ET
16. Prelude in 19ET
17. Prelude in 20ET
18. Fugue a3 in 20ET
This is very interesting. These pieces are composed in Bach-like style, so they sound accessible even in an unusual temperament. Prelude in 14ET (https://aaronandrewhunt.bandcamp.com/track/prelude-in-14et) is beautiful.
Quote from: torut on December 12, 2014, 06:46:12 PM
Randy Gibson (http://www.randy-gibson.com/index.html) studied with La Monte Young, wrote tuning theories called The Four Pillars. Aqua Madora, for just intonation piano and sine wave drones, is a beautiful piece. Highly recommended to anyone who loves Young's The Well-Tuned Piano. It has strumming parts like Young's piece, but more melodic overall.
Aqua Madora V-ii-2008 21:07:26" - 21:54:40" (NYC)
bandcamp: http://randygibson.bandcamp.com/album/aqua-madora-v-ii-2008-21-07-26-21-54-40-nyc (http://randygibson.bandcamp.com/album/aqua-madora-v-ii-2008-21-07-26-21-54-40-nyc)
(https://f1.bcbits.com/img/a0960005486_2.jpg)
I finally got around to this today. I've been taking a stab at various recommendations from this thread and I have to say that I've enjoyed this piece the most. It's quite serene as well as a bit sad and touching. I like the mood quite a bit.
Quote from: milk on January 14, 2015, 11:50:38 PM
I finally got around to this today. I've been taking a stab at various recommendations from this thread and I have to say that I've enjoyed this piece the most. It's quite serene as well as a bit sad and touching. I like the mood quite a bit.
That's nice. I also like his another album
Voices + Sine Waves, except for one track,
Julia, which is a very intense and scary piece. I almost jumped when I first listened to it around midnight. Probably I will not listen to it often, but Randy Gibson wrote that it is one of his favorites "for its purity of statement and sheer intensity." My favorites are
Mujeres de Juárez (for voices, the most beautiful piece) and
Shiver (pure sine tones). I recommend trying out at least these two tracks (skipping
Julia :D).
https://randygibson.bandcamp.com/album/voices-sine-waves (https://randygibson.bandcamp.com/album/voices-sine-waves)
(https://f1.bcbits.com/img/a1728535459_2.jpg)
Quote from: torut on January 15, 2015, 04:27:21 PM
That's nice. I also like his another album Voices + Sine Waves, except for one track, Julia, which is a very intense and scary piece. I almost jumped when I first listened to it around midnight. Probably I will not listen to it often, but Randy Gibson wrote that it is one of his favorites "for its purity of statement and sheer intensity." My favorites are Mujeres de Juárez (for voices, the most beautiful piece) and Shiver (pure sine tones). I recommend trying out at least these two tracks (skipping Julia :D).
https://randygibson.bandcamp.com/album/voices-sine-waves (https://randygibson.bandcamp.com/album/voices-sine-waves)
(https://f1.bcbits.com/img/a1728535459_2.jpg)
Great. I'm going to do that. The other one has really clicked with me. I go through periods of time when nothing seems to grab me so I'm glad for this. I think Aqua Madora is wonderful music.
This looks very interesting. The previous album of Schweinitz (Plainsound Glissando Modulation) was wonderful.
Wolfgang von Schweinitz: Plainsound Counterpoint; Catherine Lamb: Mirrors - Frank Reinecke (double bass) (Neos 11505)
(https://neos-music.com/images/covers-240/NEOS_11505_Schweinitz_Lamb.jpg)
Wolfgang von Schweinitz (*1953)
[01–07] Plainsound Counterpoint 48:04
Seven 23-limit Harmony Intonation Studies for double bass solo, op. 56 (2010–2011)
Dedicated to Frank Reinecke
Catherine Lamb (*1982)
[08–13] Mirror 11:51
for double bass solo (2006)
Saman Samadi: Microtonal Piano Solos (2015)
(http://static.wixstatic.com/media/b9d2c5_e0e2ded9eeca4a05971d63231bd62176.jpg_srz_p_350_350_75_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srz)
Solitude(excerpt): https://soundcloud.com/samansamadi/2-solitude-microtonal-piano (https://soundcloud.com/samansamadi/2-solitude-microtonal-piano)
Saman Samadi (b. 1984) is a Persian composer living in NYC. The microtonal piano album contains contemplative, melodic pieces using an exotic tuning ("He created this microtonal system derived from the traditional Persian modes") and pieces of complex, irregular rhythm. According to wikipedia, he has been influenced by New Complexity. I like this very much.
Quote from: torut on April 18, 2015, 04:07:53 PM
Saman Samadi: Microtonal Piano Solos (2015)
(http://static.wixstatic.com/media/b9d2c5_e0e2ded9eeca4a05971d63231bd62176.jpg_srz_p_350_350_75_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srz)
Solitude(excerpt): https://soundcloud.com/samansamadi/2-solitude-microtonal-piano (https://soundcloud.com/samansamadi/2-solitude-microtonal-piano)
Saman Samadi (b. 1984) is a Persian composer living in NYC. The microtonal piano album contains contemplative, melodic pieces using an exotic tuning ("He created this microtonal system derived from the traditional Persian modes") and pieces of complex, irregular rhythm. According to wikipedia, he has been influenced by New Complexity. I like this very much.
Looks really interesting. Thanks for posting that!
Lydia Ayers: Virtual Gamelan (Albany Records)
[asin]B000JJSPDQ[/asin]
youtube playlist by Lidia Ayers
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLj6olfMza_0An4-8pZU5k9s-YgpX5u-3V
description of the pieces
http://www.lydiaayers.com/compositions/recordings.html
Lydia Ayers is a Hong Kong-based composer who plays flutes from a variety of cultural traditions. She has worked with extended vocal and woodwind techniques, including quarter tones, multiphonics and other unusual flute timbres. She is creating native American, Australian, Chinese and Indonesian computer music designs. She has extensively researched and composed with microtonal tuning systems, especially unlimited just intonation. She also uses a 75-tone Indian/Partch scale on the "Woodstock Gamelan," a tubular percussion instrument built to her specifications by Woodstock Percussion. She has modeled the Woodstock Gamelan and other gamelan instruments using Csound, and authored Cooking with Csound: Woodwind and Brass Recipes, a CD-ROM package which gives synthesis designs for wind instruments. She has played gamelan at the Chinese University of Hong Kong and Hong Kong University.
The album contains pieces of "microtonal soundscape" using Indian tunings, Balinese tunings, Partch tunings, etc., composed during 1990-2006. Otherworldly, strange, beautiful, and subtle. It's computer music, but the timbre is very good.
Quote from: torut on May 15, 2015, 10:29:02 AM
Lydia Ayers is a Hong Kong-based composer who plays flutes from a variety of cultural traditions. She has worked with extended vocal and woodwind techniques, including quarter tones, multiphonics and other unusual flute timbres. She is creating native American, Australian, Chinese and Indonesian computer music designs. She has extensively researched and composed with microtonal tuning systems, especially unlimited just intonation. She also uses a 75-tone Indian/Partch scale on the "Woodstock Gamelan," a tubular percussion instrument built to her specifications by Woodstock Percussion. She has modeled the Woodstock Gamelan and other gamelan instruments using Csound, and authored Cooking with Csound: Woodwind and Brass Recipes, a CD-ROM package which gives synthesis designs for wind instruments. She has played gamelan at the Chinese University of Hong Kong and Hong Kong University.
The album contains pieces of "microtonal soundscape" using Indian tunings, Balinese tunings, Partch tunings, etc., composed during 1990-2006. Otherworldly, strange, beautiful, and subtle. It's computer music, but the timbre is very good.
75 tones: I assume that is per octave? 8) I would have trouble deciding where to go with so many choices! But I find your recommendation intriguing, and hope to experience this music soon!
Quote from: Cato on May 15, 2015, 04:10:53 PM
75 tones: I assume that is per octave? 8) I would have trouble deciding where to go with so many choices! But I find your recommendation intriguing, and hope to experience this music soon!
I think Partch used 43-tone (unevenly divided) scale, but I don't know about Indian scale. Wyschnegradsky and Haas used 72 ET, and Reinhard used 128-tone tuning. :o
another interesting microtonal music
Henri Pousseur: Electronic Experimental and Microtonal 1953-1999 (Sub Rosa)
[asin]B001DXBVZQ[/asin]
a good review by dusted:
http://www.dustedmagazine.com/reviews/4790 (http://www.dustedmagazine.com/reviews/4790)
Pousseur's works feel more academic than Partch, Young, Riley and others. Pousseur used serialism and was friends with Boulez but they split up later. The most interesting pieces to me are
Prospection (1953), for 3 pianos tuned a sixth-tone apart, and
Racine dix-neuvième de huit-quarts (1975) for cello solo using 19-tone scale.
At moonlight, downland's shadow passes along Ginkaku-Ji (1983) almost sounds ordinary Japanese traditional music, and
Figures enlacées (1999) for organ does not seem to have anything extraordinary, but I may be missing something.
Ex dei in machinam memoria (1972) for oboe is the most strangest, with (sometimes cheap) electronics sounds.
Quote from: torut on May 17, 2015, 02:29:07 PM
Pousseur's works feel more academic than Partch, Young, Riley and others. Pousseur used serialism and was friends with Boulez but they split up later. The most interesting pieces to me are Prospection (1953), for 3 pianos tuned a sixth-tone apart, and Racine dix-neuvième de huit-quarts (1975) for cello solo using 19-tone scale.
I often used a 19-tone scale for my works, or a 17-tone: the 7 or 5 added tones were quarter-tones, and could be inserted anywhere among the usual 12, thereby creating a kind of new key or mode system.
I recall
Pousseur and have the same reaction as you. Has his oeuvre made a comeback?
Quote from: Cato on May 17, 2015, 02:42:14 PM
I often used a 19-tone scale for my works, or a 17-tone: the 7 or 5 added tones were quarter-tones, and could be inserted anywhere among the usual 12, thereby creating a kind of new key or mode system.
It's interesting. So, it's not 17-ET (equal temperament) or 19-ET. Are there audio samples of your works?
Regarding Racine, according to the dusted review:
"Racine" with a 19-tone scale, half way between equal temperament and Christian Huyghens's 31-tone system; [...] In "Racine," Pousseur picks notes that tend to sound almost tonal, with splatterings of dissonance and oddly tuned intervals thrown in to make the melodies that much more melodious.QuoteI recall Pousseur and have the same reaction as you. Has his oeuvre made a comeback?
I saw some posts about Pousseur on this forum but don't remember any mentions about microtonality. This is the only Pousseur album I have. I want to check out his other works.
Lately I've been obsessed with Young's Well Tuned Piano and have even tried playing around with his tuning. It's extremely hard for me to make something of it. I think it's my favorite "xenharmonic" music. It's so mysterious. There's nothing much like it, I don't think. But it's really hard to get other people into it. It seems almost like asking them to join a cult or something. My girlfriend just looks at me like, "uh-huh." I was walking around a shopping mall listening to it recently (I know, a strange idea) and I felt like I was leaving my body.
I think the closest thing that comes to it is some kind of gamelan music maybe.
Quote from: torut on May 17, 2015, 06:28:02 PM
It's interesting. So, it's not 17-ET (equal temperament) or 19-ET. Are there audio samples of your works?
I have a tape that a student made nearly 30 years ago of an Apple II computer playing a short piece: given the primitive synthesizer in the computer, the music sounds like it is played by a broken vacuum cleaner from Mars. ;)
Some day I hope to have it transferred to a digital file.
Quote from: milk on May 18, 2015, 02:02:32 AM
Lately I've been obsessed with Young's Well Tuned Piano and have even tried playing around with his tuning. It's extremely hard for me to make something of it. I think it's my favorite "xenharmonic" music. It's so mysterious. There's nothing much like it, I don't think. But it's really hard to get other people into it. It seems almost like asking them to join a cult or something. My girlfriend just looks at me like, "uh-huh." I was walking around a shopping mall listening to it recently (I know, a strange idea) and I felt like I was leaving my body.
I think the closest thing that comes to it is some kind of gamelan music maybe.
The WTP is all about the false octaves and microtones. It's beautiful.
Quote from: sanantonio on May 27, 2015, 05:23:18 PM
Are the imperfectly flatted and bent notes, e.g. in Blues, considered examples of microtones? You can immediately hear the difference in a melody when sung by a good Blues singer compared to when you play it (as accurately as possible) on the piano. It goes from being starkly expressive to stiff and false.
Quarter tones are instrumental in Blues.
There's a new 4 CD set on Neos of the complete Haba quartets. I posted on it in the New releases thread a while ago.
Quote from: The new erato on May 28, 2015, 01:51:04 AM
There's a new 4 CD set on Neos of the complete Haba quartets. I posted on it in the New releases thread a while ago.
Wow! I missed that notice! Here is the website:
http://haba-quartett.de/en/news-en (http://haba-quartett.de/en/news-en)
Many moons ago I heard the quartet in 5th-tones, and somehow came across the score. It did not seem as successful as other experiments, but I wonder if my opinion would be different today.
Quote from: sanantonio on May 27, 2015, 05:23:18 PM
Are the imperfectly flatted and bent notes, e.g. in Blues, considered examples of microtones? You can immediately hear the difference in a melody when sung by a good Blues singer compared to when you play it (as accurately as possible) on the piano. It goes from being starkly expressive to stiff and false.
Sure!
Quote from: 7/4 on October 06, 2014, 04:54:02 PM
(https://media2.wnyc.org/i/620/372/l/80/1/pinna-2-cover-664.png)
Q2 Music Album of the Week: streaming audio (http://www.wqxr.org/#!/story/mamoru-fujiedas-derives-miniatures-electrical-activity-plants/)
"This is actually the very first time that the music of Patterns of Plants has been recorded on the piano. On two previous recordings released on Tzadik in 1997 and 2008, Fujieda employs the koto, sho, viol de gamba, harpsichord and the violin. It is quite a fascinating approach to present these works in equal temperament. There is a great deal of beauty locked in the sonorities that transcends temperament. However, the listener will absorb the music in an entirely distinct way from other readings of Patterns of Plants."
This video includes an interesting performance of Fujieda's Patterns of Plants, arranged for Gamelan. Harrison's pieces (beautiful and very moving) have many affinities with traditional Gamelan music, but Fujieda's pieces sound very different. Heart Sutra, sung in Japanese, is memorable.
https://www.youtube.com/v/JUMC8UOCtZg
traditional & recent (1970s) Gamelan music
Lou Harrison: 3 pieces for Gamelan Degung (15:30~)
Mamoru Fujieda: Patterns of Plants - Olive (46:30~), Heart Sutra (60:00~)
11/17/2013
Paraguna Group
Senzoku Gakuen College of Music
Quote from: milk on May 18, 2015, 02:02:32 AM
Lately I've been obsessed with Young's Well Tuned Piano and have even tried playing around with his tuning. It's extremely hard for me to make something of it. I think it's my favorite "xenharmonic" music. It's so mysterious. There's nothing much like it, I don't think. But it's really hard to get other people into it. It seems almost like asking them to join a cult or something. My girlfriend just looks at me like, "uh-huh." I was walking around a shopping mall listening to it recently (I know, a strange idea) and I felt like I was leaving my body.
I think the closest thing that comes to it is some kind of gamelan music maybe.
Dave Seidel used Young's tuning (not WTP) in his latest work.
Dave Seidel: Imaginary Harmony
(https://f1.bcbits.com/img/a3238417422_7.jpg)
https://mysterybear.bandcamp.com/album/imaginary-harmony (https://mysterybear.bandcamp.com/album/imaginary-harmony)
Imaginary Harmony takes as its raw material a 25-note-per-octave "scale" built by octave-reducing the set of harmonics used by La Monte Young in his 1990 sine wave installation "The Prime Time Twins in The Ranges 576 to 448; 288 to 224; 144 to 112; 72 to 56; 36 to 28; with The Range Limits 576, 448, 288, 224, 144, 56 and 28".It feels rather sonic experiment (
"harmonies based on multiplication, division, and the Pythagorean means [...] difference and summation tones"). Otherworldly.
Quote from: torut on July 08, 2015, 09:49:06 PM
Dave Seidel used Young's tuning (not WTP) in his latest work.
Dave Seidel: Imaginary Harmony
(https://f1.bcbits.com/img/a3238417422_7.jpg)
https://mysterybear.bandcamp.com/album/imaginary-harmony (https://mysterybear.bandcamp.com/album/imaginary-harmony)
Imaginary Harmony takes as its raw material a 25-note-per-octave "scale" built by octave-reducing the set of harmonics used by La Monte Young in his 1990 sine wave installation "The Prime Time Twins in The Ranges 576 to 448; 288 to 224; 144 to 112; 72 to 56; 36 to 28; with The Range Limits 576, 448, 288, 224, 144, 56 and 28".
It feels rather sonic experiment ("harmonies based on multiplication, division, and the Pythagorean means [...] difference and summation tones"). Otherworldly.
Thanks for this. I want to check this out. I need some inspiration.
I didn't know that Ezra Sims passed away early this year.
Ezra Sims (1928-2015) by Kyle Gann (PostClassic) (http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2015/02/ezra-sims-1928-2015.html)
Listening to Quintet / Solo / Night Piece / Flight / Concert Piece. Fascinating sound texture.
[asin]B000005TVW[/asin]
Quote from: torut on July 11, 2015, 01:33:29 PM
I didn't know that Ezra Sims passed away early this year.
Ezra Sims (1928-2015) by Kyle Gann (PostClassic) (http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2015/02/ezra-sims-1928-2015.html)
Listening to Quintet / Solo / Night Piece / Flight / Concert Piece. Fascinating sound texture.
[asin]B000005TVW[/asin]
Interesting music.
I was excited to find these recent releases from Microfest Records. I just listened to The Wayward Trail and I'm glad to hear Doty's music and Polansky's Song and Toods (Eskimo Lullaby from the suite was included in Cold Blue compilation, which was a memorable piece). The works of Zimmermann and Menalled are beautiful.
The Wayward Trail (Microfest Records)
(http://microfestrecords.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Wayward-Trail-Cover-Square-300x300.jpg)
http://microfestrecords.com/the-wayward-trail-notes/ (http://microfestrecords.com/the-wayward-trail-notes/)
elliot Simpson - National Reso-Phonic Just Intonation Tricone guitar, invented in 2002 by Lou Harrison
Walter Zimmermann: 15 Zwiefache Transzendiert (1977-81)
David B. Doty: Steel Suite (2003-2008)
Larry Polansky: Songs and Toods (2005)
Ezequiel Menalled: Forward (2014)
Lou Harrison / John Luther Adams: Just Strings (Microfest Records)
(http://microfestrecords.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Just-Strings-CD-Baby-300x300.jpg)
http://microfestrecords.com/just-strings-notes/ (http://microfestrecords.com/just-strings-notes/)
Just Strings: Alison Bjorkedal (Harps), John Schneider (Guitars), T.J. Troy (Percussion)
John Luther Adams: Five Athabascan Dances (1995), Five Yup'ik Dances (1995)
Lou Harrison: Harp Suite #1&2 (1951-92), Lyric Phrases (1972), In Honor of the Divine Mr. Handel (1991)
Bill Alves: Guitars & Gamelan (Microfest Records)
(http://microfestrecords.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Alves-Guitars-Gamelan-cover-Square-300x300.jpg)
http://microfestrecords.com/guitars-and-gamelan-notes/ (http://microfestrecords.com/guitars-and-gamelan-notes/)
Angin Listrik (2010) - Sean Hayward / Nat Condit-Schultz (electric guitars); Gamelan Dharma Kanti
Rational Basis (2011) - Los Angeles Electric 8
Concerto for Guitar and Gamelan (2004) - John Schneider (JI guitar); the HMC American Gamelan
Metalloid (2007) - HMC Electronic Music Ensemble
http://www.r3ok.com/index.php/topic,847.0.html
Here's a link to a microtonal discussion on another forum which members may find of interest.
Paul Rubenstein (http://ubertar.com/index.html) is a microtonal composer and original instrument builder. He explores 7-note scales with various intervals. He said Solo Trios is strongly influenced by Morton Feldman, particularly Triadic Memories. (But the music sounds very different.)
Paul Rubenstein: Solo Trios
(https://f1.bcbits.com/img/a1244622966_14.jpg)
streaming & interview: https://spectropolrecords.bandcamp.com/album/solo-trios (https://spectropolrecords.bandcamp.com/album/solo-trios)
1. 10xoxxoxxoxx
2. 10xxoxxoxxox
3. 15xoxoxooxoxoxoxo
4. 15xxxoxooxoxoooxo
5. 13xoxxoxooxoxxo
6. 13xxooxoxxoxoox
7. 14xoxooxxoxoxxoo
8. 14xxooxoxoxxooxo
9. flat bars
10. 9xxxoxxoxx
the number is the number of equal divisions of the octave, an "x" is an interval that's included, an "o" one that's omitted.
Quote from: torut on December 18, 2015, 09:04:05 PM
Paul Rubenstein (http://ubertar.com/index.html) is a microtonal composer and original instrument builder. He explores 7-note scales with various intervals. He said Solo Trios is strongly influenced by Morton Feldman, particularly Triadic Memories. (But the music sounds very different.)
Paul Rubenstein: Solo Trios
(https://f1.bcbits.com/img/a1244622966_14.jpg)
streaming & interview: https://spectropolrecords.bandcamp.com/album/solo-trios (https://spectropolrecords.bandcamp.com/album/solo-trios)
1. 10xoxxoxxoxx
2. 10xxoxxoxxox
3. 15xoxoxooxoxoxoxo
4. 15xxxoxooxoxoooxo
5. 13xoxxoxooxoxxo
6. 13xxooxoxxoxoox
7. 14xoxooxxoxoxxoo
8. 14xxooxoxoxxooxo
9. flat bars
10. 9xxxoxxoxx
the number is the number of equal divisions of the octave, an "x" is an interval that's included, an "o" one that's omitted.
sounds pretty cool!
Quote from: torut on December 18, 2015, 09:04:05 PM
Paul Rubenstein (http://ubertar.com/index.html) is a microtonal composer and original instrument builder. He explores 7-note scales with various intervals. He said Solo Trios is strongly influenced by Morton Feldman, particularly Triadic Memories. (But the music sounds very different.)
streaming & interview: https://spectropolrecords.bandcamp.com/album/solo-trios (https://spectropolrecords.bandcamp.com/album/solo-trios)
1. 10xoxxoxxoxx
2. 10xxoxxoxxox
3. 15xoxoxooxoxoxoxo
4. 15xxxoxooxoxoooxo
5. 13xoxxoxooxoxxo
6. 13xxooxoxxoxoox
7. 14xoxooxxoxoxxoo
8. 14xxooxoxoxxooxo
9. flat bars
10. 9xxxoxxoxx
the number is the number of equal divisions of the octave, an "x" is an interval that's included, an "o" one that's omitted.
I have not listened to everything: #1, #3, and #4. There was a sameness to the style, yet it kept my interest to see where it was headed.
#3 has a sort of
Harry Partch in Lhasa feel to it. 0:)
Quote from: milk on December 19, 2015, 04:10:30 PM
sounds pretty cool!
I'm glad it interested you.
Quote from: Cato on December 21, 2015, 02:52:03 AM
I have not listened to everything: #1, #3, and #4. There was a sameness to the style, yet it kept my interest to see where it was headed.
#3 has a sort of Harry Partch in Lhasa feel to it. 0:)
The music gives an esoteric feeling. He said it's matter of habituation whether notes sound in-tune or out-of-tune, and an interval within a certain range has a particular function (for example, as a third), even if it is off just intonation. I'm not sure about it.
BTW, Rubenstein mentioned some names of microtonal composers. I want to check out their music.
"Some current microtonal composers I've enjoyed listening to lately are Dan Stearns, Jacky Ligon, Neil Haverstick (he played at my wedding), XJ Scott, Chris Vaisvil, Carlo Serafini, Igliashon Jones and I'm probably forgetting a few others."
Quote from: torut on December 22, 2015, 09:06:04 AM
I'm glad it interested you.
The music gives an esoteric feeling. He said it's matter of habituation whether notes sound in-tune or out-of-tune, and an interval within a certain range has a particular function (for example, as a third), even if it is off just intonation. I'm not sure about it.
I think he is right: however, part of that habituation needs to come from hearing such music at an earlier age. It will not cause as many wrinkled noses ;) as in later years.
I have been interested in and gratified by this resurgence of interest in microtonality: I still think that a scalar approach (e.g.
Blackwood, Carrillo, Wyschnegradsky ) is best, especially with scales of 24-tones. Going much beyond that seems not too practical.
To be sure, the groups keeping
Harry Partch's legacy alive have been a welcome surprise!
Quote from: torut on December 22, 2015, 09:06:04 AM
BTW, Rubenstein mentioned some names of microtonal composers. I want to check out their music.
"Some current microtonal composers I've enjoyed listening to lately are Dan Stearns, Jacky Ligon, Neil Haverstick (he played at my wedding), XJ Scott, Chris Vaisvil, Carlo Serafini, Igliashon Jones and I'm probably forgetting a few others."
The Internet has become a great way to hear new composers using quarter-tones or other microtonal scales, and electronics have come a long way from the days of the Motorola Scalatron. :D
See this effort with - 106! - tones per octave!
https://www.youtube.com/v/8re6rFj7q10
Though that Catherino's music itself does not sound so challenging, the instrument is interesting. I wonder if a complex composition can be played with it. Maybe good for digitized glissandi or some sound effects?
This is another interesting music based on JI: etudes for prepared digital piano, composed by Dan Trueman, performed by Adam Sliwinski (a member of So Percussion).
NOSTALGIC SYNCHRONIC - etudes for prepared digital piano (http://manyarrowsmusic.com/nostalgicsynchronic/)
The tuning used is "Partial tuning," based on Norwegian fiddle tuning: just tuning with slightly raised minor 6th and lowered minor 3rd, septimal tritone, and major 7th.
"Partial tuning" explained: http://manyarrowsmusic.com/nostalgicsynchronic/?page_id=54 (http://manyarrowsmusic.com/nostalgicsynchronic/?page_id=54)
[asin]B011VSBXG4[/asin]
Zoran Šćekić: just music ~ music for piano in five limit just intonation (http://www.ravellorecords.com/catalog/rr7922/)
Ana Žgur, piano (Ravello Records)
[asin]B018USLJ9O[/asin]
https://soundcloud.com/parmarecordings/strong-man-just-music (https://soundcloud.com/parmarecordings/strong-man-just-music)
Zoran Šćekić is a Croatian composer, arranger, multimedia artist, and jazz guitarist.
Works like 23.10 and strong man bring to mind Erik Satie's piano pieces, film music, and minimalism, [...] Šćekić masterfully crafts pieces that on the surface portray often lyrical, placid, and harmonic gestures, yet are richly calculated and complex in their construction.
From the September 22, 2016
Wall Street Journal:
Quote...Mr. Maalouf plays on a trumpet with four valves, a technique pioneered in the 1960s by his father, Nassim Maalouf. By adding that fourth valve, Mr. Maalouf can play the quartertones that hide between the 12 notes of the chromatic scale, which provides the backbone for most Western music.
Following an award-studded career as a classical trumpet player, Mr. Maalouf self-trained as a jazz musician, and his custom-made instrument allows him to reach the half-sharps and half-flats that are tricky for other trumpet players to articulate. It is those quartertones that are characteristic of Arabic music, a tradition from which the trumpet is mostly absent. Mr. Maalouf fuses Western and Eastern traditions, and in his compositions the 12 tones of standard jazz scales merge with the 55 of Arabic makamlar....
See: http://www.wsj.com/articles/kalthoum-by-ibrahim-maalouf-review-the-power-of-one-valve-1474488862 (http://www.wsj.com/articles/kalthoum-by-ibrahim-maalouf-review-the-power-of-one-valve-1474488862)
Also:
https://www.youtube.com/v/UNaJjWTEEDs
Those shady quarter-tones!
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on September 22, 2016, 04:08:29 AM
Those shady quarter-tones!
;) Not much shade in Egypt! But I must wonder about that parka he is wearing in the music video! ???
Quote from: Cato on September 22, 2016, 04:05:37 AM
https://www.youtube.com/v/UNaJjWTEEDs
Interesting call-&-response between an Asia-style arena-prog "head" and the generally soft-breathed solo.
Many things by Maalouf on YouTube: my impression is that the microtonal aspect is more ornamental than a substantive part of the harmony. Skimming through, I found some fun and nicely done things!
Quote from: Cato on September 22, 2016, 04:09:37 AM
;) Not much shade in Egypt! But I must wonder about that parka he is wearing in the music video!
Taken from the youtube vid: "with shoots from "Dans les forets de Sibérie" movie".
Microtones of course as much easier on stringed instruments without frets.
(Must admit the music doesn't do a lot for me, would rather sans the repeating vamp...)
Quote from: zamyrabyrd on September 22, 2016, 06:50:37 AM
(Must admit the music doesn't do a lot for me, would rather sans the repeating vamp...)
Sounds a bit like a Genesis cover band . . . .
Nowadays, it seems like most contemporary chamber music works have some degree of microtonality, usually not using an entire microtonal equal-tempered scale, but rather looking out for specific-sounding harmonies and sonorities, especially through contrast between one instrument or instrumental group and another.
From what I vaguely understand, this is standard practice in spectral music.
Ligeti's Ramifications for two quarter-tone apart string orchestras https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXbr1nyMFUc
Ligeti's Hamburg Concerto contrasting overtone natural harmonics of horns with traditional equal-tempered orchestra https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXWjayXSzcE and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqVV_CUQzT4
Grisey's Vortex Temporum with microtonally-tuned piano contrasting with standard instrumental tuning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXaNFBzgDWI
Xenaki's Eonta with overtone brass contrasting the piano, as before https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIZuHBKgfoc and Anaktoria https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhTPo9bjOko and others.
Or... swarms of instrumental glissando are a microtonality too.
Xenakis's Metastasis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZazYFchLRI
Penderecki's Threnody https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HilGthRhwP8
and anything heavily based on glissando
Or vocal microtonality.
Luigi Nono's Prometheus Suite https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n-JuMnzVgA
... I wish I had more examples of microtonal choral music.
Anybody know this? Panufnik's Kolysanka
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi_7-QGvYVU
Quote from: zamyrabyrd on September 22, 2016, 06:50:37 AM
Microtones of course as much easier on stringed instruments without frets.
(Must admit the music doesn't do a lot for me, would rather sans the repeating vamp...)
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on September 22, 2016, 08:31:30 AM
Sounds a bit like a Genesis cover band . . . .
Quote from: Cato on September 22, 2016, 06:35:51 AM
Many things by Maalouf on YouTube: my impression is that the microtonal aspect is more ornamental than a substantive part of the harmony.
Quote from: SeptimalTritone on September 22, 2016, 09:15:16 AM
... I wish I had more examples of microtonal choral music.
Try this!
https://www.youtube.com/v/GIb6CebsDYA&index=1&list=PLUSRfoOcUe4ahT5GOSZZLWPJI7vaDepIu
Some of microtonal music recordings I enjoyed recently.
Rhys Chatham: Pythagorean Dream (Foom, 2016)
[asin]B01DCZ0734[/asin]
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-VjkFdSwLsijnAIOrqfTo6bA_AeosPim
Chatham plays the Pythagorean tuning guitar, flute and trumpet. Deep and rich.
Chris Brown: Six Primes (New World Records, 2016)
[asin]B01G5O67FQ[/asin]
http://www.newworldrecords.org/album.cgi?rm=view&album_id=94309
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh0Byzwjv-ZNj85I5-5NxPV0lZLHprmKx
Six Primes is composed using the first six prime numbers 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, and 13 to govern both its tuning and temporal structure, including harmony, rhythmic subdivisions, and form.
Dave Seidel: The Problem of Moments (2016)
(https://f4.bcbits.com/img/a3435186481_14.jpg)
https://mysterybear.bandcamp.com/album/hexany-permutations
Hexany Permutations was inspired by Tom Johnson's piece "The Chord Catalogue," where all of the possible chords that occur within one octave for a given scale are presented [...] The scale uses the following ratios: 1/1, 7/6, 5/4, 35/24, 5/3, 7/4, 2/1, and is tuned to 1/1 = 180 Hz.
Overtone Ensemble (Important Records, 2016)
[asin]B01DVLW0RU[/asin]
http://theovertoneensemble.com.au/
The Overtone Ensemble perform and record using microtonally tuned metal rod instruments designed and built by Tim Catlin.
Schweinitz/Lamb: Plainsound Counterpoint / Mirrors
[asin]B00UKNFJF8[/asin]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pweb_QtiglA
Schweinitz: Seven 23-limit Harmony Intonation Studies for double bass solo
Schweinitz's music is exceptional. No sentimentality, no accessible melody, yet beautiful and enchanting.
David First / The World Casio Quartet - The Complete Gramavision Session (1989)
[asin]B01HII2VMQ[/asin]
http://www.pogus.com/21084.html
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFBomSeDkjEr4QHK1DVAnDM2ZMi0Nui4x
A quartet of detuned Casio CZ1000 synthesizers formed by David First.
Quote from: torut on January 18, 2017, 11:17:46 PM
Some of microtonal music recordings I enjoyed recently.
Thanks for this!
Quote from: Cato on September 22, 2016, 12:28:21 PM
Try this!
https://www.youtube.com/v/GIb6CebsDYA&index=1&list=PLUSRfoOcUe4ahT5GOSZZLWPJI7vaDepIu
OK, I'm having a Microtonal Breakdown here... that Choral Music sounded like the wailing of the damned to me... what would Jesus think of this?? I'd be like, "Don't muddy up my adoration with all that weepy muck... I want exaltation and glory, not droopy weepy... come on, where's the love?"
I'm sorry, afterr the three Ives pieces, I feel like I'm done with whatever it is people are calling the microtones these days... I mean, EVERYTHING I hear- the more microtonal it's claimed to be, the more ennui I HEAR coming out of the speakers, as if the only "mood" microtonal composition can engender is a gray overcast depressing rainy day... oy vey, help me out here!!
And, at this point in History, I just consider ornamental bending as microtones,... like the "blues" bending... yea, I know it sounds that way, but, the harmony is still I-IV-V, so, just bending is just "expression" and not structural.
aANY STRUCTURAL MICROTONAL PIECE I'VE HEARD JUST ENDS UP SOUNDING LIKE THE DREARY STUFF I'VE ALREADY HEARD- Wyschnegradsky, Ezra Sims, the Ives pieces, Lou Harrison... Well Tempered Piano... guitatr....
spectral... microtonal... fancy pants...
NO CLOTHES... THE KING HAS NO CLOTHES!!!!!!!!
45 tones per octave--- BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!.... you might as well call it witchcraft... sorry, now I'm just ranting and hating :-[
It's just that everyone seems to take this sooooo seriously, and the results are always horrendous.... HORRENDOUS!!!~!
iT'S THAT eZRA sIMS DISC THAT DID IT TO ME... sorry, CapsMania... Ezra Sims, that CRI disc... can't stand it...
It's like the notes are TOO close together, like houses that are built too close... no body wants to be that cramped...
MICROTONES GIVE ME THE CRAMPS!!
There, I said it- don't cramp my style with microtonal harmony....gaaaaah
RANT: off
Off the top of my head- The Best Example of Microtones in the History of History:
the guitar solo for 'My Guitar Gently Weeps'
the rest is noize
Quote from: milk on January 19, 2017, 01:41:56 AM
Thanks for this!
And your latest work is very nice. I've been enjoying the recent clips but I'm glad to hear a new piece using alternate tunings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooCRXM00VrQ
Quote from: SeptimalTritone on September 22, 2016, 09:15:16 AM... I wish I had more examples of microtonal choral music.
Also, how about this?
Michael Harrison: Just Constellations - Roomful of Teeth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvYiHLHoe2g&list=WL&index=171%5B/url
Quote from: snyprrr on January 19, 2017, 07:22:58 AM
It's like the notes are TOO close together, like houses that are built too close... no body wants to be that cramped...
MICROTONES GIVE ME THE CRAMPS!!
There, I said it- don't cramp my style with microtonal harmony....gaaaaah
But 64/63 comma sounds better than a 12ET semitone!
Quote from: torut on January 19, 2017, 09:08:42 PM
And your latest work is very nice. I've been enjoying the recent clips but I'm glad to hear a new piece using alternate tunings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooCRXM00VrQ
You're very kind! Thanks!
Quote from: torut on January 19, 2017, 09:16:58 PM
But 64/63 comma sounds better than a 12ET semitone!
EXACTLY!! ::) :laugh:
*swoons*
Fabio Costa
Aphoristic Madrigal for SATB Soli & Fokker Organ in 31-Tone Equal Temperament
https://www.youtube.com/v/Lq9-6NnXPVg
QuoteQuote
"...The Infinitone, an elongated pyramid of brass, resembles a futuristic soprano saxophone, with the usual mouthpiece, reed, and ligature. But while a sax's keys attach to valves that open and shut, the Infinitone has five motorized slides that give it the flexibility of a trombone or guitar. The horn plugs into an iPad, which controls the slides. Rather than playing the instrument directly, the player touches the screen to play a colorful spectrum of 512 notes — 256 per octave, instead of the usual black-and-white 12.
In Atlanta, Singh and his Infinitone would go on to win first place and $5,000. The judges included Mike Adams, the CEO of Moog Music — a company that had created another paradigm-shifting instrument — and Alfred Darlington, also known as electronic musician Daedelus, who raved about the possibilities that Singh's invention opened up.
"It looks like a soprano sax," Darlington said in a recent interview. "But what it's able to do defies the held beliefs of what an instrument should express."
Today, Singh is poised to release Infinitone DMT, a software based on the eponymous instrument, which will allow anyone to access notes they've only dreamed of. "Just like painters can paint using a palette of almost infinite shades," says Singh, "musicians can also make music with infinite varieties of musical intervals."...
As I recall, researchers have found that most people can distinguish differences down to 1/12 of a tone. Beyond that, it will not matter...for most people. 8)
See:
https://expmag.com/2021/03/it-looks-like-a-saxophone-but-plays-512-notes-many-youve-never-heard-before/?utm_source=pocket-newtab][url]https://expmag.com/2021/03/it-looks-like-a-saxophone-but-plays-512-notes-many-youve-never-heard-before/?utm_source=pocket-newtab (http://[url)[/url]
And:
Quote
Many traditional musical cultures do not use 12ET as a basis for musical creation. The traditional music of India and the Middle East, for example, are based on highly-evolved microtonal expressions. These traditions, however, generally feature only a single melodic line, played in a single fundamental key (modulation to various tonal centers is uncommon).
Infinitone DMT endeavors to bring about a paradigm shift in music, combining the rich nuance of tonal possibility from older music traditions with the modulation, harmonic, and contrapuntal possibilities exemplified in Western music.
Precision pitch adjustment now becomes an integral and dynamic part of the creative process for musicians, allowing them to create brand new scales with notes they've never used before.
The limits are simply left the musician's own imagination.
See:
https://infinitone.com/ (https://infinitone.com/)
I will not pretend to understand much Russian, but this critic, Anton Dolin, has a "radio" show on YouTube.
After some movie reviews, he starts talking about Ivan Wyschnegradsky, gives background information which mentions Scriabin, and then offers an excerpt of a work by Wyschnegradsky for two pianos tuned a quarter-tone apart.
Go to 10:12 for the start of the segment, which is not particularly long. The music of Wyschnegradsky starts c. 11:49.
https://www.youtube.com/v/vSRFrcsMsT4&list=PL3H5xrrh2YAoBvqPqOs-D53RuDSD0fAuJ&index=60
This link about Ivan Wyschnegradsky is much more substantial and is in English. It was part of a Ph.D. presentation at Harvard University:
https://www.youtube.com/v/2pze3pmBv3Q
Quote from: Rinaldo on May 26, 2017, 03:21:26 PM
*swoons*
Fabio Costa
Aphoristic Madrigal for SATB Soli & Fokker Organ in 31-Tone Equal Temperament
https://www.youtube.com/v/Lq9-6NnXPVg
Wow. Great find.