Let me hear reviews or thoughts about your favorite or most disliked of Mahler commercial recordings...discussion of favorite broadcasts always welcome as well!
Here is one to start with (revised from my original view somewhat on Mahler board):
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41At4TYcUGL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Wow, everything really sounds right in this performance of Mahler's #2, which easily equals my favorite modern accounts by Zinman, Chailly and Rattle in terms of interpretation, sound (I heard the SACD layer here) and overall mood. Like Gilbert Kaplan or Chailly, Fischer takes time to build and reveal the musical/dramatic discourse and doesn't give everything away in the first movement (like Rattle).
Indeed, this account (with Zinman) is among the least "romantic" of all Mahler 2's I've heard. I have this impression because the playing is not overly exaggerated, rather the score is played straight without judgement or literal discourse. I am impressed how Fischer doesn't give in to the temptation to overdo every climax.
In the 1st movement, the performance of the "allegro maestoso" sections sound so straightforward, as if empty of subjectivity, which is why the second movement really seems to blossom when it arrives. We go from a kind of apathy in the 1st movement to a warm nostalgia in the 2nd...a nice contrast.
In the second movement the contrast with the 1st movement is underlined with the warm timbre of dancing strings and the controlled expression and grace of the tempos...played in this manner, the 2nd movement couldn't be more different from the sarcastic 3rd movement, which is executed with even more rustic character and color, and the atmospheric trumpet section sounds soft and otherworldly...a hint of the finale to come...not overplayed or literal...just played as it is.
The Urlicht is beautifully sung by Birgit Remmart, with her tone and the illuminated execution of the orchestra a different world is conjured from what we heard before...that of surrender and light. A Mozartian grace appears in this performance for the first time, and the orchestral sound is that of repose and stillness...the first glimpse of the "other" side...very subtle and refined.
Somehow all these contrasts are held together, coherent but allowing the extreme contrasts to shine. The finale really hits hard, especially at the final measures, where suddenly the universe cracks into a another dimension altogether. I kept hearing the ghost of the classical era between the transparent choir and the clarity and graceful playing of the orchestra (the voice of Lisa Milne contrasts nicely with Remmart and the choir).
Before the enlightenment of the final pages occur, the contrast between the apathetic "cold universe" (exemplified in the 1st movement) and lyrical nostalgic vistas (heard before in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th movements) meet together to join in the finale until the climatic percussion crescendo pushes the envelope beyond structure and balance (as I imagine Mahler intended here) of the entire work. Bravo to the orchestra, which reminded me of Scherchen's Vienna State Opera Orchestra in his M2, because it doesn't sound like a large orchestra, and the sound is lean and intimate during the lesser scored sections. The whole performance appears to fly by...I usually go for slower tempos, but this M2 is built so well it doesn't matter.
Highly recommended!
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2002/May02/Mahler6_MTT.jpg)
Every revist to the Michael Tilson Thomas M6 just gets better and better...the staying power of this recording is impressive. It sure doesn't reveal its secrets right away, but after a period of time the special qualities begin to be heard...the tone of a horn here, the turn of a phrase there...and like a field of flowers in bloom, the overall arch of a complete picture comes into focus. This sound quality of the SFSO, which sounds very refined as if from a dream-like space, really shines in the andante movement, and a sense of the past and present seems to spread like a wave through each movement in linear time as I listen. Paradoxically, it seemed this work was the symphony where Mahler was at his most objective, his most scientific experiment in the context of arranged sounds. For my ears, the MTT M6 has appeared to out perform all the recent M6's I've been hearing (with exception to the Zinman, which still compares well).
(http://www.universalmusicclassical.com/images/local/300/2405E.jpg)
I really believe this is a very impressive M3, and it may even become my top choice, the last three movements are so rich and devotional, radiant with peace, mystery and joy. I like the sudden turn into spirituality during the last three movements, more obvious than I'm used to hearing in this work, outlined in the tempos and soaring transparency in the execution of the Vienna Phil. Orch., especially in the strings. In particular I love the final chord, which seems to hang on forever, but I love the whole way the ending is played...it is not like other recordings, it is more reflective than I'm used to...which is wonderful and fits the concept of the whole performance. Bravo to Jesse Norman for such profound singing here, deep and thougthful.
I resisted buying the Abbado VPO M3 for years, because the opinions I had read complained about certain aspects of sound, or the slowness of the finale. But I finally found a decently priced used copy and discovered this M3 to be incredible, and it has a unique sound too (not an audiophile experience, but a pleasing recording full of great detail). The first movement is among the wildest and most confrontational I've ever heard. It soars, it growls and swirls, and then the enchanted quieter moments are captured with presence and atmosphere in the interesting production (not to everyones taste obviously)...indeed it is one of my favorite Mahler recordings in my whole collection.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31JOCqV4qiL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
This commerical recording and Barenboim's live M9th in Berlin (from April 2007) have both been revelatory and have offered a view of the 9th I haven't heard before, like the woodwind balances. I forget how important the woodwind colorings are essential to this work, but Barenboim is there to remind me. I also like how the strings are lean and rather cutting. Overall there is a kind of "chamber music" atmosphere to the texture. Although I usually turn towards the slower tempos of Horenstein, Bernstein, Karajan and etc, I've found Baremboim's account to be a real serious contender, if not more satisfying overall in terms of pace, instrumental detail and overall architecture of the four movements. The 3rd movement in particular is usually a "problem" movement for me...it's a spot where my attention usually lags as I look forward to get to the last movement, but Barenboim keeps my attention all the way through and opens my ears to the ultimate importance of this movement in the grand scheme of this work's discourse.
The whole performance is a "horizontal" rather "vertical" performance, if that makes sense. This 9th is conducted like a Schoenberg work, where the focus in on the "line" (from start to finish) rather than whats happening above or below the line harmonically. This is my impression anyways. I guess I'm trying to say it's a lean performance, with not much fat. Thats why the so called "compressed" climaxes in the sound quality don't really bother me at all. In my car stereo the climaxes seem to explode...but the explosions cut like a laser.
This 9th isn't conducted like it's a 9th Symphony...it's more like a "5th Symphony" kind of performance...young and brash sounding...aggressive. I like how this 9th isn't a sacred or holy work for Barenboim...it's just a symphony.
Leo, thank you for posting your reviews. If I find the time, I may contribute some as well. Of the four you posted so far, I've only heard the MTT's 6th, which I agree is an excellent recording. I'm very interested in hearing Abbado's 3rd and comparing it to my favorite: Boulez/VPO.
Quote from: Leo K on November 06, 2009, 02:44:22 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31JOCqV4qiL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
This commerical recording and Barenboim's live M9th in Berlin (from April 2007) have both been revelatory and have offered a view of the 9th I haven't heard before, like the woodwind balances. I forget how important the woodwind colorings are essential to this work, but Barenboim is there to remind me.
Woodwinds only? How about brasses or did you miss that part? You noticed how around the 2-3 minute mark in the first movement (the first big climax) where you can't hear the solo trumpet even though he has an important solo?
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on November 06, 2009, 06:00:29 AM
Woodwinds only? How about brasses or did you miss that part? You noticed how around the 2-3 minute mark in the first movement (the first big climax) where you can't hear the solo trumpet even though he has an important solo?
I was selecting an element of the mix that I enjoyed hearing, in this case the woodwinds. Yes, I can hear the brass just fine. :)
In this recording the climaxes sound rather compressed, as I mention near the end...a shame really as the brass tends to be compromised. Actually, there is a problem with the oboe being too upfront near the end of the first movement, but I rather liked the effect all the same.
This recording won't be to everyone's taste.
Quote from: Keemun on November 06, 2009, 05:06:56 AM
Leo, thank you for posting your reviews. If I find the time, I may contribute some as well. Of the four you posted so far, I've only heard the MTT's 6th, which I agree is an excellent recording. I'm very interested in hearing Abbado's 3rd and comparing it to my favorite: Boulez/VPO.
Thanks very much...I too am a big fan of the Boulez, it is a great performance indeed.
(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/417TB2EGBML._AA240_.jpg)
Britten/Mahler 4/LSO
I found this disk at a used store, and thought this might be nice to hear, since I like historical recordings and this would be a good break from all the Mahler 6th's and 9th's I'd been binging on at the time.
This is recording is radiantly recorded (at the Aldeburgh Festival, 1961) and the LSO play beautifully. The first movement is fast and airy (the church it was recorded in gives the sound some pleasant reverb) as if wind were blowing through the cracks between the boards of a barn...the clarity here is such a joy. The solo violin in the scherzo is pretty creepy, but the lightness of the trios reveals the "devil" to be the shadow of a mouse. I don't think I could ask for a better 3rd movement, since Britten is a great navigator through the strange form this movement moves in...the tenson never lags behind, the horizon on the plain is always in view. The soprano is actually boyish and young sounding too.
Not bad for just 8 bucks.
Quote from: Leo K on November 06, 2009, 07:12:19 AM
The soprano is actually boyish and young sounding too.
Is it Elly Ameling? I see Anna Reynolds listed on the cover too and mezzos have been known to sing it also.
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on November 06, 2009, 07:22:01 AM
Is it Elly Ameling? I see Anna Reynolds listed on the cover too and mezzos have been known to sing it also.
Sarge
Hi Sarge,
Yes, Anna Reynolds is the singer in the 4th, and Amy Ameling (one of my favorite singers) is singing the Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen...sorry I should have been more clear about that!
Quote from: Leo K on November 06, 2009, 07:27:45 AM
Hi Sarge,
Yes, Anna Reynolds is the singer in the 4th...
Thanks. One more question: what's the timing for the Finale? Is Britten swift or leisurely? (I prefer my heaven to be rather languid ;D )
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on November 06, 2009, 07:46:20 AM
Thanks. One more question: what's the timing for the Finale? Is Britten swift or leisurely? (I prefer my heaven to be rather languid ;D )
Sarge
The finale on this recording lasts 8:32. A little brisk perhaps!
Coming November 17:
Mahler 2/Haitink/CSO (http://www.cso.org/res/pdf/press/press_release_2009-11-03.pdf)
I went to the concert from which this recording was made and unless they completely screwed up the engineering (which I can't imagine) this should be a great one.
Quote from: Mensch on November 06, 2009, 11:25:28 AM
Coming November 17:
Mahler 2/Haitink/CSO (http://www.cso.org/res/pdf/press/press_release_2009-11-03.pdf)
I went to the concert from which this recording was made and unless they completely screwed up the engineering (which I can't imaging) this should be a great one.
I'm really looking forward to it! I envy you that you were there too...Haitink being a hero of mine.
Quote from: Mensch on November 06, 2009, 11:25:28 AM
Coming November 17:
Mahler 2/Haitink/CSO (http://www.cso.org/res/pdf/press/press_release_2009-11-03.pdf)
I went to the concert from which this recording was made and unless they completely screwed up the engineering (which I can't imagine) this should be a great one.
Have you listened to the Mahler 3 disc by Haitink and CSO? Is it any good?
Quote from: Undutchable on November 09, 2009, 07:44:23 AM
Have you listened to the Mahler 3 disc by Haitink and CSO? Is it any good?
Yes. Again, I went to the concert at which that was taped. I think it is a terrific performance. But it may not suit those who prefer their Mahler with more edge-of-the-seat emotional intensity. Haitink has always been an objectivist with an aversion for histrionics and his CSO Mahler 3 is one that patiently builds its climaxes. But the reward of the journey is a sense of structure and proportion second to none and a final adagio that really seems like the culmination of everything that came before. The trombone solo is second to none.
Quote from: Mensch on November 09, 2009, 08:34:13 AM
Yes. Again, I went to the concert at which that was taped. I think it is a terrific performance. But it may not suit those who prefer their Mahler with more edge-of-the-seat emotional intensity. Haitink has always been an objectivist with an aversion for histrionics and his CSO Mahler 3 is one that patiently builds its climaxes. But the reward of the journey is a sense of structure and proportion second to none and a final adagio that really seems like the culmination of everything that came before. The trombone solo is second to none.
I too would like to recommend Haitink's CSO Mahler 3. As Mensch mentions above, I also strongly feel that the climax at the end of the last movement is among the most satisfying I've ever heard in a recording, since the build up is so carefully built in the proceeding movements the ending feels inevitable.
And I love the Chicago brass!
I'd just like to chime in on Leo's recommendation of the Fischer 2nd. I'm NOT a fanatic Mahlerite, but his music has followed me on and off for 35 years, and this is one of my favorite Mahler discs in my collection. Must try the 4th as well (my favorite symphony) - yes; with age and maturity I'd found that Mahler is best when he keeps himself under close reigns. Probably why I prefer Brahms among all the romantics, why I prefer chamber to orchestral, and why I prefer Cavalli and Monteverdi to Wagner when it comes to opera. Succintness to effusiveness, that seems to be me (though I enjoy a romantic wallow every once in a while).
(http://img.hmv.co.jp/image/jacket/190/26/6/3/802.jpg)
on the Weitblick label sourced from Europe
Timings:
I. 28:09
II. 15:27
III. 13:09
IV.28:29
This is a powerful and deeply moving M9 from February of 1985. In interpretation it retains the hallmarks of his later recorded M9's but with "rougher" and edgy playing from the Vienna Symphony (even more rough than Bertini's account with the TMSO on Fontec), which brings a sense of innocence and discovery to the score. There are mistakes in playing heard here and there, yet Bertini guides the orchestra with strength and sculpts a performance that touches and uplifts. The sound is quite good for a live recording, with a somewhat limited dynamic range, but with wonderful balance and detail in the louder climaxes (all three climaxes in the first movement are a highlight of this recording).
Although not essential, I warmly recommend this for fans of Bertini's art. This performance has nuances not heard in his other accounts and I wouldn't want to be without it. The Adagio is on a par with his TMSO M9, but the straight, earnest quality of the strings and strong brass make this one of the most tender and life affirming Adagios I have ever heard.
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2007/Oct07/Mahler7_Tennstedt_bbcl42242.jpg)
Timings:
1. 22:10
2. 16:45
3. 9:54
4. 15:14
5. 18.13
This release of the Tennstedt M7 on BBC Legends is a good complement to the Kondrashin M7 on Tahra, both captured on tape from the later 1970's or early 1980's. Tennstedt's is very "outside" the lines, in almost every bar he is loose and messy, and sometimes alittle too slow, but all the same I enjoyed this performance for it's utter vulgar humour and sometimes sad tone...Mahler in a "Bizarro" world. I think it may be one of the most radical M7's I heard, in the same spirit as Scherchen M7 (in Toronto) at least. The sonics on this recording is actually fine, not as good as the Kondrashin, but still impressive for a broadcast. I was very impressed by the resonant bells, very well captured during the finale. The Kondrashin M7 on Tahra is completely the opposite...refined, heroic, glorious, and romantic. Since both broadcasts were recorded around the same period, they make a good pair, and both exhibit how different this work can be under different personalities. If you want a couple of really good sounding historical M7's...these two are a good choice (the sound on both is really that good). The Kondrashin M7 is still available on Tahra (can be found at HMV Japan).
I warmly recommend this for those who like historical recordings, or like something off the beaten path. If you're already happy with Barenboim, Bernstein, and Kobayashi you probably don't need this, unless you really what a mutant in your collection!
Quote from: Leo K on November 06, 2009, 02:17:12 AM
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2002/May02/Mahler6_MTT.jpg)
Every revist to the Michael Tilson Thomas M6 just gets better and better...the staying power of this recording is impressive. It sure doesn't reveal its secrets right away, but after a period of time the special qualities begin to be heard...the tone of a horn here, the turn of a phrase there...and like a field of flowers in bloom, the overall arch of a complete picture comes into focus. This sound quality of the SFSO, which sounds very refined as if from a dream-like space, really shines in the andante movement, and a sense of the past and present seems to spread like a wave through each movement in linear time as I listen. Paradoxically, it seemed this work was the symphony where Mahler was at his most objective, his most scientific experiment in the context of arranged sounds. For my ears, the MTT M6 has appeared to out perform all the recent M6's I've been hearing (with exception to the Zinman, which still compares well).
I heard him play it in London and I liked his style a lot. In the concert the performance was objective -- it rather called to mind Boulez's recording, which I also like.
BTW there is an outstanding M4 just been posted on symphonyshare -- Tendstedt with Auger and CSO, from the early 90s.
Quote from: Leo K on November 09, 2009, 10:44:21 PM
I too would like to recommend Haitink's CSO Mahler 3. As Mensch mentions above, I also strongly feel that the climax at the end of the last movement is among the most satisfying I've ever heard in a recording, since the build up is so carefully built in the proceeding movements the ending feels inevitable.
And I love the Chicago brass!
Thanks guys,
Amazon is my next stop to order it. I think Haitink's Mahler truly shine when he is live. I have his 1990s Berlin studio recording which was very disappointing, seems the Berliners were on autopilot. His live Kerstmatinee recording of the 1980s is my favourite M3, so I'm looking forward to this one with the CSO.
Quote from: Undutchable on November 11, 2009, 08:44:17 AM
Thanks guys,
Amazon is my next stop to order it. I think Haitink's Mahler truly shine when he is live. I have his 1990s Berlin studio recording which was very disappointing, seems the Berliners were on autopilot. His live Kerstmatinee recording of the 1980s is my favourite M3, so I'm looking forward to this one with the CSO.
Let me just note that, initially, I was very impressed with that Chicago 3rd as an aural spectacle; but after discussing it with a prior GMG member, and going through it again, I realised it's a lot more of a glorified autopilot than it deserved to be.
I'm not saying it
is a glorified autopilot. Especially by direct comparison, though, I
am saying there are more musically insightful accounts by the same conductor (e.g. his first one). Or so I feel, of course. :)
Quote from: Renfield on November 11, 2009, 08:52:38 AM
I'm not saying it is a glorified autopilot. Especially by direct comparison, though, I am saying there are more musically insightful accounts by the same conductor (e.g. his first one). Or so I feel, of course. :)
It is hard to imagine Haitink toppng his first Concertgebouw M3. I'll be sticking with that one.
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on November 11, 2009, 09:02:56 AM
It is hard to imagine Haitink toppng his first Concertgebouw M3.
Certainly not in Berlin. That has to be one of the dullest Mahler recordings I heard.
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on November 11, 2009, 09:02:56 AM
It is hard to imagine Haitink toppng his first Concertgebouw M3. I'll be sticking with that one.
Sarge
That is a far more succinct way of putting what I tried to say. :D
Quote from: Drasko on November 11, 2009, 09:08:09 AM
Certainly not in Berlin. That has to be one of the dullest Mahler recordings I heard.
Have these recordings ever been reissued?
I recall reading something good about his 1st from that batch, but I've never seen it anywhere.
Quote from: Renfield on November 11, 2009, 09:16:41 AM
That is a far more succinct way of putting what I tried to say. :D
Have these recordings ever been reissued?
I recall reading something good about his 1st from that batch, but I've never seen it anywhere.
No, I don't think they were ever reissued in the way his Vienna Bruckner was reissued (on a 2 for 1 sets). I have his Mahler 6 which I bought new about 20 yrs ago - I think it may have seen the inside of my cd player about a dozen times or so over the period. The Mahler 3, 4 & 5 I picked up cheap on second hand stalls over the last few years. The M6 and M3 can sell for 30 Euros upwards on ebay - I don't why though
Quote from: Drasko on November 11, 2009, 09:08:09 AM
Certainly not in Berlin. That has to be one of the dullest Mahler recordings I heard.
I love the Finale, though.
But the first movement f.i. is played like a finale, and that's a huge problem I think. Pan is not marching in, but he's trudging out.
The live Berlin DVD is better.
As are the two Concertgebouw recordings: studio (sixties) with a.o. Maureen Forrester and certainly the live Christmas Matinee performance (both on CD and on DVD, although the latter exclusively for the Dutch market).
Quote from: Undutchable on November 11, 2009, 10:11:20 AM
No, I don't think they were ever reissued in the way his Vienna Bruckner was reissued (on a 2 for 1 sets).
I've seen some in Dutch music shops, though.
Dunno if all 7 recordings were re-issued, but I know of at least 2 couplings.
Examples:
http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symphonies-Nos-Australia-McNair/dp/B00067GKE2/ref=pd_sim_m_2/190-5586604-1476119
http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symphonies-Nos-4-5/dp/B0001GAS5K
Quote from: Renfield on November 11, 2009, 08:52:38 AM
Let me just note that, initially, I was very impressed with that Chicago 3rd as an aural spectacle; but after discussing it with a prior GMG member, and going through it again, I realised it's a lot more of a glorified autopilot than it deserved to be.
I'm not saying it is a glorified autopilot. Especially by direct comparison, though, I am saying there are more musically insightful accounts by the same conductor (e.g. his first one). Or so I feel, of course. :)
I have to disagree with that. It is certainly not a gripping account that will have you at the edge of the seat the whole time, but it is a stupendously well structured one that really leads from the very beginning to that ultimate conclusion in the climax of the finale. That is quite an achievement for a work of these dimensions.
Quote from: Mensch on November 11, 2009, 02:09:28 PM
I have to disagree with that. It is certainly not a gripping account that will have you at the edge of the seat the whole time, but it is a stupendously well structured one that really leads from the very beginning to that ultimate conclusion in the climax of the finale. That is quite an achievement for a work of these dimensions.
I don't see where I stated that it fails in doing that. :)
I suggested it's less gripping than it could have been, by evidence of the (IMO) better earlier version.
Quote from: Renfield on November 11, 2009, 02:20:07 PM
I don't see where I stated that it fails in doing that. :)
I suggested it's less gripping than it could have been, by evidence of the (IMO) better earlier version.
The glorified autopilot part. You just don't accomplish this sense of structure and of-a-single-mould effect in such a long work by not exercising control throughout.
Quote from: Mensch on November 12, 2009, 05:46:49 AM
The glorified autopilot part. You just don't accomplish this sense of structure and of-a-single-mould effect in such a long work by not exercising control throughout.
Do note, though, that I did not say it
is a glorified autopilot: just that it leans towards that more than I'd like, meaning I do see it as a cohesive, grand, single-minded performance, but it contains less actual conducting than I would prefer.
(Just to make it clear that I am not bashing the recording.)
Quote from: Renfield on November 12, 2009, 07:27:54 AM
but it contains less actual conducting than I would prefer.
See, that's what I can't quite follow. Having spoken to some of the musicians involved about the rehearsals and the performances, I just don't see that.
Quote from: Mensch on November 12, 2009, 06:59:56 PM
See, that's what I can't quite follow. Having spoken to some of the musicians involved about the rehearsals and the performances, I just don't see that.
Less
obvious actual conducting. My opinion on this cannot be anything but subjective, given how I wasn't there.
I am not trying to bash anyone's favourite recording, I will repeat. I just compare it unfavourably
to another version.
Quote from: Renfield on November 13, 2009, 05:12:07 AM
Less obvious actual conducting. My opinion on this cannot be anything but subjective, given how I wasn't there.
I am not trying to bash anyone's favourite recording, I will repeat. I just compare it unfavourably to another version.
Understood, I just find that kind of comment inherently questionable, because telling apart what aspects of a performance are the conductor's doing and what is just based on the orchestra's familiarity with a standard repertoire piece is nearly impossible even when you see the conductor's cues in person, let alone when you just have the audio in the form of a recording. You could express what you're trying to say by simply saying that you find that Haitink does not put much of an individualistic interpretive imprint on the musical proceedings. But to interpret the relative sobriety and straightforwardness of his approach as a lack of involvement strikes me as factually incorrect. Put a mediocre conductor in his place and you'll immediately notice the difference.
Speaking of Haitink, allow me to post my favorite Mahler 6 broadcast, and perhaps my all time top Mahler 6.
(http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~san/haitink.jpg)
Gustav Mahler
Symphony No.6 in A minor
1. Allegro energico, ma non troppo. Heftig, aber markig.
2. Andante moderato
3. Scherzo: Wuchtig
4. Finale: Sostenuto - Allegro moderato - Allegro energico
(Around 80 minutes)
London Symphony Orchestra/Bernard Haitink (13/VI/2004)
http://rapidshare.com/files/11029148/Mahler_6_LSO_Haitink_2004.zip
I have never heard such a powerful 6th as the Haitink/LSO. It's not just power I hear, but the phrasing and line of the performance feels so full and satisfactory, with much subtlety and nuance...a masterpiece of execution, compelling musical discourse and instrumental color.
In this LSO recording Haitink stands between the objective and subjective viewpoints inherent in the structure of this large symphony in such a way I have not yet heard in performances of the 6th...like someone who has the capability for scientific/objective self-reflection in the midst of upsetting emotional and life upheavals. This LSO M6 is neither a "detached" classical-like view (like Sanderling) nor is the interpetation interventionist to the extreme (such as Barbirolli). As a fan of both approaches I feel I am getting the best of both worlds here...and this is good since I am not wholly convinced that Mahler wanted this Symphony played as if it were a detached "classical" symphony, since the Finale uses but goes beyond sonata-form into new territory (like Beethoven's 9th).
Haitink presents the musical discourse in a steadfast way, with no sentimentality. But this is not a cold interpretation, rather, it is brimming with a passionate concentration and sense of construction, with striking moments of instrumental color and nuance that slowly builds a grand structure. I felt a feeling of wholeness at the end, which is paradoxical because of the implied "tragic" message of the musical argument. A feeling of "completeness" and "fullness" at the moment of "death" or the fall. I found it interesting to hear in a pre-concert interview that Haitink is reminded of the myth of Icarus and his fall from the sun during the Finale to this work.
Well, this is a Mahler performance to be treasured and enjoyed again and again.
I find that Mahler's 9th is often performed like one giant sigh (not unlike many Elgar performances). I checked out the Barenboim rec and it seems to be a performance with more spine.
Got the Barenboim Staatskapelle Berlin M9 today and I have to say it's extraordinary. It displaces Walter as my favorite without any qualims at all. I love many things about it, but the thing that strikes me the most is how different it is from most M9's. It's not a resigned interpretation, not an infinite sadness in the face of death. It's much more forceful and militant, louder, and defiant. It sounds more like the M5 or M6 that I've ever heard before. Hell, it sounds more closely integrated to the overall Mahler "sound" that M1 through M8 establish than I've ever heard before. Oh, and the 2nd movement, when it really gets going, sounds almost sarcastic, almost like Shostakovich, that mad-house madcap energy. Whodda thunk Barenboim had something like this in him?
Thanks for the recommendations, I'm stoked to have it.
Quote from: Leo K on November 06, 2009, 02:17:12 AM
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2002/May02/Mahler6_MTT.jpg)
Every revist to the Michael Tilson Thomas M6 just gets better and better...the staying power of this recording is impressive. It sure doesn't reveal its secrets right away, but after a period of time the special qualities begin to be heard...the tone of a horn here, the turn of a phrase there...and like a field of flowers in bloom, the overall arch of a complete picture comes into focus. This sound quality of the SFSO, which sounds very refined as if from a dream-like space, really shines in the andante movement, and a sense of the past and present seems to spread like a wave through each movement in linear time as I listen. Paradoxically, it seemed this work was the symphony where Mahler was at his most objective, his most scientific experiment in the context of arranged sounds. For my ears, the MTT M6 has appeared to out perform all the recent M6's I've been hearing (with exception to the Zinman, which still compares well).
I understand that this was recorded on 12th September 2001 .... one day after 9/11. I can imagine this had a subconcious impact on the performers .....
[Pasted from elsewhere]
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51g09fxlpNL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)It seems to come in various packaging.
Mahler: Symphony No. 5
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra
Frank Shipway, cond.
RPO PLATINUM
Shipway/RPO's Mahler Fifth is schizoid to the max (in the now sullied sense of meaning thoroughly contrasting in mood, tempo and dynamics); yet comprehensible, committed, and thrillingly performed -- it's how I imagine Mahler imagined it! The brass soloists are spot-on in expression and overall ensemble is quite fine with this very inspired conducting. Also, the twelve-minute Adagietto isn't "beautiful", it's fine steel mesh being stretched and rent asunder. This is a Mahler Fifth that demands to be heard!
The recording is spacious, somewhat less than impeccably balanced; but mostly clean, unfussy and gimmick-free...and it's available dirt cheap online. You'll love it!
Quote from: alkan on January 22, 2010, 02:32:48 AM
I understand that this was recorded on 12th September 2001 .... one day after 9/11. I can imagine this had a subconcious impact on the performers .....
As well as a significant conscious effect. It is a wonderful 6th, as are all of the recordings in this cycle. I think it may be time to revisit it.
Quote from: Moldyoldie on January 22, 2010, 06:26:34 AM
[Pasted from elsewhere]
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51g09fxlpNL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)It seems to come in various packaging.
Mahler: Symphony No. 5
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra
Frank Shipway, cond.
RPO PLATINUM
Shipway/RPO's Mahler Fifth is schizoid to the max (in the now sullied sense of meaning thoroughly contrasting in mood, tempo and dynamics); yet comprehensible, committed, and thrillingly performed -- it's how I imagine Mahler imagined it! The brass soloists are spot-on in expression and overall ensemble is quite fine with this very inspired conducting. Also, the twelve-minute Adagietto isn't "beautiful", it's fine steel mesh being stretched and rent asunder. This is a Mahler Fifth that demands to be heard!
The recording is spacious, somewhat less than impeccably balanced; but mostly clean, unfussy and gimmick-free...and it's available dirt cheap online. You'll love it!
I just picked up a recording of Shostakovich 10 from Shipway and the RPO under something called Royal Philharmonic Masterworks: Audiophile Collection. It's much better than anything that cheap has a right to be :)
Speaking of cheap Mahler recordings, there are recordings of the Fifth and Seventh by Orquesta Filarmonica de Gran Canaria on Arte Nova (possibly some of the other symphonies as well). Again, while they may not desert island quality, they are certainly far better than the pricing suggests. Also on Arte Nova, for the same dirt cheap price, is the Gerharer/Huber recording of the piano version of Kindertotenlieder, packaged with Schoenberg's Chamber Symphony and Gerharer singing Schoenberg's chamber ensemble version of the Wayfarer songs.
Quote from: Leo K on January 15, 2010, 09:58:27 AM
Speaking of Haitink, allow me to post my favorite Mahler 6 broadcast, and perhaps my all time top Mahler 6.
(http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~san/haitink.jpg)
Gustav Mahler
Symphony No.6 in A minor
1. Allegro energico, ma non troppo. Heftig, aber markig.
2. Andante moderato
3. Scherzo: Wuchtig
4. Finale: Sostenuto - Allegro moderato - Allegro energico
(Around 80 minutes)
London Symphony Orchestra/Bernard Haitink (13/VI/2004)
http://rapidshare.com/files/11029148/Mahler_6_LSO_Haitink_2004.zip
Thanks for the link Leo. I downloaded the file and just finished listening.
I'm sorry to say that to me it just felt dull, flat and interminable (and the sound quality didn't help). But since you think very highly of it, I will try again later.
Quote from: brunumb on January 27, 2010, 03:54:30 PM
Thanks for the link Leo. I downloaded the file and just finished listening.
I'm sorry to say that to me it just felt dull, flat and interminable (and the sound quality didn't help). But since you think very highly of it, I will try again later.
Then you'd better not try the CSO Resound version, which has a total timing of 90'41''. And interesting when compared to this version--on the CSO he chose to have the scherzo come before the andante.
(Exact timings on the CSO Resound: 25'56", 14'23", 16'12", 34'10".)
Quote from: brunumb on January 27, 2010, 03:54:30 PM
Thanks for the link Leo. I downloaded the file and just finished listening.
I'm sorry to say that to me it just felt dull, flat and interminable (and the sound quality didn't help). But since you think very highly of it, I will try again later.
Thanks for your thoughts. Perhaps a second listening will be better. It is a slower performance, so perhaps not to everyone's taste.
Also, goes to show how different we all hear music ;D
Quote from: Moldyoldie on January 22, 2010, 06:26:34 AM
[Pasted from elsewhere]
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51g09fxlpNL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)It seems to come in various packaging.
Mahler: Symphony No. 5
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra
Frank Shipway, cond.
RPO PLATINUM
Shipway/RPO's Mahler Fifth is schizoid to the max (in the now sullied sense of meaning thoroughly contrasting in mood, tempo and dynamics); yet comprehensible, committed, and thrillingly performed -- it's how I imagine Mahler imagined it! The brass soloists are spot-on in expression and overall ensemble is quite fine with this very inspired conducting. Also, the twelve-minute Adagietto isn't "beautiful", it's fine steel mesh being stretched and rent asunder. This is a Mahler Fifth that demands to be heard!
The recording is spacious, somewhat less than impeccably balanced; but mostly clean, unfussy and gimmick-free...and it's available dirt cheap online. You'll love it!
Thank you for the heads up...I haven't heard this and it sounds like my kind of M5!
Mahler: Symphony No. 5
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra
Frank Shipway, cond.
If you are interested, this recording is also available as an SACD (hybrid) on the Membran label, and still inexpensive.
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//222845.htm
This site had a picture, but it was actually cheaper at Presto in the UK
Quote from: Leo K on January 28, 2010, 03:15:43 PM
Thanks for your thoughts. Perhaps a second listening will be better. It is a slower performance, so perhaps not to everyone's taste.
Also, goes to show how different we all hear music ;D
Hi Leo,
Just listened to the first movement again. My negative reaction is mostly due to the sound. It is very boxy and boomy. The timps are very prominent, as if the microphones were planted right in the middle of them. The bottom end of the sound spectrum seems to be emphasised so that the Mahlerian shrieks and squeals are really lost and tame. You just can't smooth out the edges of Mahler like that. The strings are basically lost in amongst everything. Reminds me very much of old mono recordings.
You could perhaps answer a question for me if you are familiar with the Atlanta SO/Levi recording of M6. The opening of the last movement sounds odd to me. If there is a cymbal crash written, has he overdone it or has he added one that's not there? I'm too hot and bothered to get it out and listen again right now, but that's the impression that stuck with me after the last run through.
Quote from: brunumb on January 30, 2010, 01:18:41 AM
You could perhaps answer a question for me if you are familiar with the Atlanta SO/Levi recording of M6. The opening of the last movement sounds odd to me. If there is a cymbal crash written, has he overdone it or has he added one that's not there? I'm too hot and bothered to get it out and listen again right now, but that's the impression that stuck with me after the last run through.
There is a cymbal stroke in the score (Becken is the German word):
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/oct2009/Mahler6%20Finale.jpg)
I can hear it in every recording I have but, yes, it's
far more prominent in Levi's recording. It's marked P so Mahler wanted a whisper here and, arguably, Levi lets his percussionist wack it too loudly. I like it though. In some recordings, like Szell's, it barely registers, and I think it should be heard clearly given the fact the orchestration is so lean at this point.
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on January 30, 2010, 04:43:17 AM
I can hear it in every recording I have but, yes, it's far more prominent in Levi's recording. It's marked P so Mahler wanted a whisper here and, arguably, Levi lets his percussionist wack it too loudly. I like it though. In some recordings, like Szell's, it barely registers, and I think it should be heard clearly given the fact the orchestration is so lean at this point.
Maybe Levi's percussionist didn't use the prescribed
Schwammschlägel? $:)
Thanks Sarge. I like the opening to have a more 'mysterious' sound and the loud cymbal just kills the mood. It reminds me of the opening to the last movement of the 1st.
schwammschlagel = sponge mallet.
Maybe not Mensch.
Quote from: brunumb on January 30, 2010, 11:37:09 AM
schwammschlagel = sponge mallet.
I'm aware of that. ;) I just don't have that recording, so I can't confirm.
Quote from: Mensch on January 31, 2010, 07:17:50 AM
I'm aware of that. ;) I just don't have that recording, so I can't confirm.
I have the recording, the cymbal stroke is very clear, but I can't tell. I don't have a comparative reference in my head. If I heard a comparison (soft stick vs hard) I could probably hear the difference but on this recording I can't. My guess though is that they followed Mahler's instructions and the recording engineers captured the sound better than most teams. The Telarc recording is unusually detailed, the percussion especially well-caught (although that won't be to everyone's taste. As brunumb pointed out, mystery is sacrificed for clarity at this point).
Sarge
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41QLpXPfIqL.jpg)
I didn't care for this M4 the first couple times but now I'm warming up to the overall flow. Overall this M4 is more "low key", but then again there is another (serious?) quality I can't put my finger on yet. Again, the Adagio is stunning thanks to the BPO strings. I actually really like Fleming's heavier voice in the Finale...her voice is reminiscent of Berg's sound world, and it adds a feeling of darkness to the Finale.
Quote from: alkan on January 22, 2010, 02:32:48 AM
I understand that this was recorded on 12th September 2001 .... one day after 9/11. I can imagine this had a subconcious impact on the performers .....
I will add that I attended the September 12, 2001 concert performance that this recording came from. The sense of tragedy was truly devastating and I don't think anyone in the audience could keep their focus on anything but what was happening in New York. I wondered how the performers could stay focused for the 90 minutes of intensity but no one in the room was far away from the tragedy and horrific images being replayed in our minds. There were many blank stares throughout the entire hall. The bustling city was a cold ghost town that evening. There was truly a sense of an inspired performance and a tribute to those who were suffering a tremendous injustice that was mind boggling in its cruelty. I am glad the recording is preserved in such high-quality but frankly cannot revisit it because it recalls such bad memories.
Quote from: Leo K. on April 09, 2016, 05:04:18 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41QLpXPfIqL.jpg)
I didn't care for this M4 the first couple times but now I'm warming up to the overall flow. Overall this M4 is more "low key", but then again there is another (serious?) quality I can't put my finger on yet. Again, the Adagio is stunning thanks to the BPO strings. I actually really like Fleming's heavier voice in the Finale...her voice is reminiscent of Berg's sound world, and it adds a feeling of darkness to the Finale.
I'm glad you posted this. I was able to get the box set today for $23. I had a couple of the symphonies, but not this one. Thanks.
Quote from: Jay F on April 12, 2016, 05:37:19 PM
I'm glad you posted this. I was able to get the box set today for $23. I had a couple of the symphonies, but not this one. Thanks.
Thanks Jay, Abbado's Mahler with the Berlin Phil. is so flowing, detailed with all kinds of interesting insights into the music (his Mahler 9 is another incredible recording).