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The Music Room => Great Recordings and Reviews => Topic started by: Ciel_Rouge on November 07, 2009, 05:53:49 PM

Title: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Ciel_Rouge on November 07, 2009, 05:53:49 PM
I am considering different recordings of this piece - a piece that I have come to be intrigued with through YT. However, most of the ones I have sampled on YT have either the orchestra or the soloist "infected" with some kind of retardation, making it sound either "tired" or "fake". For me however Tchaikovsky is a blend of violence and dark undertones so characteristic for the Russian classical but also with an added flavour of joy and playfulness. Could you possibly recommend any recordings in this regard?
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Brian on November 07, 2009, 06:36:38 PM
I'm not sure I can think of recordings which really capture "Russian darkness" in this work - except of course the mournful slow movement. But I'd strongly advise you to seek out the thrilling recordings by Jascha Heifetz and Vadim Gluzman, and most especially a live traversal by Leonid Kogan. You also should listen to David Oistrakh's live Russian Serenade melancolique, which will REALLY appeal to you - nearly tear-inducing.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41YP33GJ6ZL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)   (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Zz3qmz-RL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Jeuy8P%2ByL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)   (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2006/Jan06/Oistrakh6_DHR7742.jpg)

My personal favorite recordings of the Concerto are Kogan, for his humongous, sweet, jaw-dropping violin sound and the live-performance excitement, and Gluzman, who plays the violin for which the concerto was written (Auer's), although I only discovered that while writing this post. Gluzman plays like an old-fashioned romantic; his performance sounds like it ought to be in mono and have lots of scratches and pops, but it's in modern sound - too good to be true, except it's true. Fast and furious, but swooningly romantic and fully engaged with the emotion of every note. Actually that describes all three of these recordings, and "emotionally engaged" vastly understates Oistrakh's Serenade. I need to hear Oistrakh play the Concerto.

EDIT: For the Violin Concerto, I also have or have heard recordings by Julia Fischer, Ilya Kaler, Emmy Verhey, Pavel Sporcl, Heifetz/Reiner, Vadim Repin, Ivry Gitlis, and Gil Shaham. Most are not too memorable, though Heifetz/Reiner is loved by many and Gitlis is pretty darn good. Julia Fischer's recording is very, very charming. Though I enjoy Ilya Kaler's, it's rather bland compared to Gluzman, Fischer and Kogan and you would definitely feel it to be "the wrong way."
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Renfield on November 07, 2009, 06:51:54 PM
Quote from: Ciel_Rouge on November 07, 2009, 05:53:49 PM
For me however Tchaikovsky is a blend of violence and dark undertones so characteristic for the Russian classical but also with an added flavour of joy and playfulness. Could you possibly recommend any recordings in this regard?

Absolutely.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41JF9RKHHCL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)


"Take one of these and call me in the morning." ;)


Alternatively, I second David Oistrakh, in a number of different versions, among which the two below are my favourite:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ZOhYmwTXL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51qyMyXQ7JL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)


Edit: Of the Oistrakhs, though, I think the latter fits your specification more than the former, which (IIRC) is not quite as 'dark'.
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Brian on November 07, 2009, 07:00:28 PM
Quote from: Renfield on November 07, 2009, 06:51:54 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41JF9RKHHCL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)   (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51qyMyXQ7JL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

....MUST....HAVE....!!!!!
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: ccar on November 08, 2009, 08:19:03 AM
Quote from: Ciel_Rouge on November 07, 2009, 05:53:49 PM
I am considering different recordings of this piece - a piece that I have come to be intrigued with through YT. However, most of the ones I have sampled on YT have either the orchestra or the soloist "infected" with some kind of retardation, making it sound either "tired" or "fake".

We'll always discover at least as many wonderful readings of the Tchaikovsky VC as the violinists we may fancy. And because most of them recorded the piece multiple times - from "King" Oistrakh at least 13 versions have emerged - it requires some courage to pick one or two from the pile.
I certainly go with you that many performers will play the notes (many most perfectly) but without "injecting" that magic that breaths life into the music. But it will be even more difficult to choose if you ask for "the right way" to play it. So, I will take your question provocatively - I won't give you any of the traditional "great recordings of the century" recommendations but I'll suggest a reading of the Tchaikovsky VC that many will most probably consider too free, unorthodox or even the "wrong way".
But you may be sure of one thing - there won't be any signs of retardation or tiredness in it.

Carlos

(http://www.feriamix.cl/images/caratulas/03/92/9/392976.jpg)  (http://www.isorchestra.co.il/objects/10%D7%A2%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%99-%D7%92%D7%99%D7%98%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%A1.gif)
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Herman on November 09, 2009, 05:49:40 AM
Quote from: Ciel_Rouge on November 07, 2009, 05:53:49 PM
I am considering different recordings of this piece - a piece that I have come to be intrigued with through YT. However, most of the ones I have sampled on YT have either the orchestra or the soloist "infected" with some kind of retardation, making it sound either "tired" or "fake". For me however Tchaikovsky is a blend of violence and dark undertones so characteristic for the Russian classical but also with an added flavour of joy and playfulness. Could you possibly recommend any recordings in this regard?

Many of Tchaikovsky's contemporaries did not consider him as a really "Russian" composer. Too Westernized, especially too Frenchy.

Two composers that had a tremendous influence on Tchaikovksy were Bizet (Carmen) and Delibes (Coppelia). Both embodied for Tchaikovsky the "joli" which could be translated as pretty, or attractive, and also your "playfulness".

There's some pretty dark stuff in Tchaikovsky's output, such as Pique Dame, Onegin, Swan Lake and the 6th symphony. However I would have a rather hard time putting the Violin Cto in that category. To me it's primarily a very nice and exciting concerto, intended to be hugely succesful, for the performer and the composer. I wouldn't even call the slow mvt "mournful," just a quiet and intense song with some pastoral characteristics.
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Sergeant Rock on November 09, 2009, 06:44:31 AM
I agree with Herman. I don't hear "violence and dark undertones" in the Violin Concerto. In fact, quite the opposite. I'm reminded that film compoer Bill Conti stole the first movement's big tune to underscore moments of success and triumph in The Right Stuff. My own favorite version, powerful, intense and moving but never maudlin or kitschy is Boris Belkin's with Ashkenazy conducting.

Sarge
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: MichaelRabin on November 10, 2009, 05:19:09 AM
Leonid Kogan with Silvestri on EMI Encore. A wonderful bargain. The 1958 sound is much better than what you think engineers can produce in that year. A classic! Definitive version.
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: MichaelRabin on November 10, 2009, 05:21:38 AM
I can't stand the Huberman - it is some rhythmically unsteady. Pliant - too pliant - this Huberman rhythm. If you need expressive & pliant for that sort of vintage, try Heifetz in 1937.

Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Renfield on November 11, 2009, 08:41:00 AM
Quote from: MichaelRabin on November 10, 2009, 05:21:38 AM
I can't stand the Huberman - it is some rhythmically unsteady. Pliant - too pliant - this Huberman rhythm. If you need expressive & pliant for that sort of vintage, try Heifetz in 1937.

Interesting! :)

I actually find the pliability of his rhythm to reinforce the effect of his playing, given how judicious he is about his tempo. More so,  I'd be tempted to call the Huberman the best-paced version I've heard. I don't remember the Heifetz much, but I do remember preferring the later version with Reiner. (Though not for the sort of aesthetic the OP wants.)
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Drasko on November 11, 2009, 08:53:48 AM
Quote from: Renfield on November 11, 2009, 08:41:00 AM
I don't remember the Heifetz much, but I do remember preferring the later version with Reiner. (Though not for the sort of aesthetic the OP wants.)

I prefer earlier Heifetz with Barbirolli by a wide margin, the later one with Reiner struck me as too fast and stiff in comparison.

Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Renfield on November 11, 2009, 09:19:18 AM
Quote from: Drasko on November 11, 2009, 08:53:48 AM
I prefer earlier Heifetz with Barbirolli by a wide margin, the later one with Reiner struck me as too fast and stiff in comparison.

And it is, that's why I like it when I'm in the mood for something more 'rigorous'. In general, it feels more consistent a reading than the Barbirolli. (Though I'm tempted to give the latter another shot, since we're discussing it.)
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: MichaelRabin on November 11, 2009, 01:25:10 PM
I am with Drasko, if you want to compare pre-1940 versions. It is more Romantic than the Reiner version. Don't get me wrong - the Reiner contains fantastic violin playng but it sounds like Heifetz passes the fiddler assault course with flying colours. For a truly epic Russian version, the Kogan-Silvestri is "non pareil". Have you guys tried it? It is absolute awesome and I am comparing with Heifetz, Oistrakh, Milstein, Repin, etc, etc
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Renfield on November 11, 2009, 02:03:46 PM
Quote from: MichaelRabin on November 11, 2009, 01:25:10 PM
For a truly epic Russian version, the Kogan-Silvestri is "non pareil". Have you guys tried it? It is absolute awesome and I am comparing with Heifetz, Oistrakh, Milstein, Repin, etc, etc

Nope; but I've put it in my mental shopping basket! :)

Re Heifetz/Barbirolli, I think what I find slightly off-putting in it is the kind of 'wallowing' in Heifetz' phrasing. I don't at all mind Romantic excess: it's the specific effect he's going for that registers as less well-defined than I'd like.

He seems to linger just a little too much, ending up a little bit all over the place, in terms of melodic line. For lack of a more elegant term, early Heifetz splurges embellishment too readily for me to prefer his reading over Huberman's. By comparison, Huberman also wallows, but he wallows in a 'tighter' manner - if that makes any sense!

So when I go for a Romantic reading, I go for Huberman; and when I want the opposite, I go for Heifetz/Reiner.
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Brian on November 11, 2009, 05:04:23 PM
Quote from: MichaelRabin on November 11, 2009, 01:25:10 PM
I am with Drasko, if you want to compare pre-1940 versions. It is more Romantic than the Reiner version. Don't get me wrong - the Reiner contains fantastic violin playng but it sounds like Heifetz passes the fiddler assault course with flying colours. For a truly epic Russian version, the Kogan-Silvestri is "non pareil". Have you guys tried it? It is absolute awesome and I am comparing with Heifetz, Oistrakh, Milstein, Repin, etc, etc

I haven't heard Kogan/Silvestri, but if it is at all like the live Kogan performance in the Brilliant Classics box, it will be stunning!
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: ccar on November 11, 2009, 06:07:31 PM
Quote from: Brian on November 11, 2009, 05:04:23 PM
I haven't heard Kogan/Silvestri, but if it is at all like the live Kogan performance in the Brilliant Classics box, it will be stunning!

I have 3 versions of the Tchaik VC by Leonid Kogan - 1950 with Nebolsin (Revelation/Brilliant),  1956 with Vandernoot (Testament/EMI France) and 1959 with Silvestri (EMI, various). The 1959 is indeed a great performance with stereo detailed sound, wonderful phrasing and tone and a very good orchestral part. But for me I am (still) very much impressed by the unique spontaneity and panache of the first version, with Nebolsin. 

Carlos           
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Bogey on November 11, 2009, 06:58:39 PM
Quote from: Brian on November 07, 2009, 06:36:38 PM

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41YP33GJ6ZL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)   


Lock thread!
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Que on November 11, 2009, 10:58:28 PM
I see all my favourites are mentioned  ;D : Huberman/ Steinberg & Kogan/Silvestri. I also prefer Heifetz/Barbirolli by a very wide margin to Heifetz/Reiner.

Interesting mention of Kogan/Nebolsin - I guess that would mean getting the Kogan box on Brilliant?

Q
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: val on November 12, 2009, 02:08:37 AM
My absolute favorite: Heifetz/Reiner. The second movement is "magic", with such a lyricism not very usual in Heifetz.
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: MichaelRabin on November 12, 2009, 04:27:51 AM
We can equate Heifetz/Barbirolli = Kogan/Nebolsin roughly ==> more
Romantic treatment of the VC in these 2 giants' younger playing days. But my favourite is still the Kogan/Silvestri. A really jaw-dropping performance that makes me drop everything I am doing and listen astounded. For the price of an EMI Encore, you should not be stingy and think twice about collecting this version. You won't regret it at all.
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Drasko on November 12, 2009, 05:29:54 AM
Quote from: MichaelRabin on November 11, 2009, 01:25:10 PM
For a truly epic Russian version, the Kogan-Silvestri is "non pareil". Have you guys tried it? It is absolute awesome and I am comparing with Heifetz, Oistrakh, Milstein, Repin, etc, etc

Yes, I have Kogan/Silvestri. It's my second favorite, after Heifetz/Barbirolli. My third pick would probably be Gitlis/Hollreiser. From current crop of violinists I'd love to hear Suwanai (later one, I think she has two recordings). With disappearance of Philips her recordings will be even more difficult to get.
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Carolus on November 12, 2009, 05:55:18 AM
I've other versions to recommend:
Vadin Repin-Arnold Katz (he was 16 at the time)
Milstein-Stock (1940)
Erica Morini-Desire Defaw (1945)
Erica Morini-Rodzinsky (1956)
Ossy Renardy-Munch
Tossy Spivakovsky-Walter Goehr
Vladimir Spivakov-Seiji Osawa
Erick Friedman-Dimiter Manolov
;) :D
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Lethevich on November 12, 2009, 10:49:54 AM
Quote from: Carolus on November 12, 2009, 05:55:18 AM
Tossy Spivakovsky-Walter Goehr
I keep running into this one in secondhand LP stores and have been wondering about what it is like...
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Drasko on November 12, 2009, 11:24:19 AM
Quote from: Lethe on November 12, 2009, 10:49:54 AM
I keep running into this one in secondhand LP stores and have been wondering about what it is like...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LiCEamtgyQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRE8TRj1u1Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvjhCMww0vI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J22rCEoCJM

Quote from: Carolus on November 12, 2009, 05:55:18 AM
Vadin Repin-Arnold Katz (he was 16 at the time)
How does Repin/Katz compare with newer Repin/Gergiev?
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Carolus on November 12, 2009, 12:26:46 PM
Don't know. Don't have the new recording. But the first is fantastic IMHO.
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Lethevich on November 12, 2009, 12:51:44 PM
Quote from: Drasko on November 12, 2009, 11:24:19 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LiCEamtgyQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRE8TRj1u1Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvjhCMww0vI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J22rCEoCJM

Thanks! This is good stuff.
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: MichaelRabin on November 12, 2009, 01:27:21 PM
I heard the Tossy on U-Tube but still prefer Kogan-Silvestri. By the way, I also have the Philips Suwanai-Ashkenazy Czech PO version too. But Kogan is tops.
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: ccar on November 12, 2009, 02:00:57 PM
Quote from: MichaelRabin on November 12, 2009, 01:27:21 PM
But Kogan is tops.

And I was wondering what do you (MichaelRabin) think about the Michael Rabin's version. :)

Carlos

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51DN6YRWB0L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Brian on November 13, 2009, 02:14:57 PM
Quote from: Que on November 11, 2009, 10:58:28 PM
Interesting mention of Kogan/Nebolsin - I guess that would mean getting the Kogan box on Brilliant?

For about US$30, the Kogan box on Brilliant gets you sensational recordings of the Tchaikovsky, Mozart No 3, Beethoven, and Barber, plus two Grieg violin sonatas, two Carmen Fantasies (Waxman and Sarasate), and a ton of other material. Definitely worth the asking price and much more besides!
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Drasko on November 13, 2009, 02:43:22 PM
Quote from: MichaelRabin on November 12, 2009, 01:27:21 PM
I heard the Tossy on U-Tube but still prefer Kogan-Silvestri. By the way, I also have the Philips Suwanai-Ashkenazy Czech PO version too. But Kogan is tops.

This is not Highlander, there can be more than one.

How did you like Suwanai/Ashkenazy on its own, not in comparison with Kogan.
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Renfield on November 13, 2009, 03:19:02 PM
Quote from: Drasko on November 13, 2009, 02:43:22 PM
This is not Highlander, there can be more than one.

;D

We need to put this on display somewhere prominent. It would prevent a lot of unnecessary arguments; and in style, to boot.

On topic, I am quite interested in the Kogan/Nebolsin; perhaps it might 'do' for me what the Heifetz/Barbirolli does not. Especially since I remember greatly appreciating Kogan's contribution to the Kogan-Gilels-Rostropovich Trio.
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Brian on November 13, 2009, 07:58:40 PM
On a side note:

to owners of the Kogan/Nebolsin, when Kogan is playing alternate versions of the violin part at the end of the exposition and again at the end of the recap, is he playing revisions made by the composer, an alternative reading that arose at some point over time, or a new passage he just made up? Every time I hear it, the passage sticks out at me, and I am wondering who is responsible for the difference.
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: MichaelRabin on November 14, 2009, 02:16:15 AM
Quote from: ccar on November 12, 2009, 02:00:57 PM
And I was wondering what do you (MichaelRabin) think about the Michael Rabin's version. :)

Carlos

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51DN6YRWB0L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Inferior, Carlos. The live Philadelphia Orchestra Rabin-W Smith version is better. Do you have this? Rabin's best concerto recording from that EMI set are the Paganini VC1s.



Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: MichaelRabin on November 14, 2009, 02:17:41 AM
Quote from: Drasko on November 13, 2009, 02:43:22 PM
This is not Highlander, there can be more than one.

How did you like Suwanai/Ashkenazy on its own, not in comparison with Kogan.

Not bad. If I heard it first, then its an OK version. But I heard the Kogan 1st and all versions are inferior to Leonid's! Sorry!
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: MichaelRabin on November 14, 2009, 02:20:15 AM
Quote from: Brian on November 13, 2009, 07:58:40 PM
On a side note:

to owners of the Kogan/Nebolsin, when Kogan is playing alternate versions of the violin part at the end of the exposition and again at the end of the recap, is he playing revisions made by the composer, an alternative reading that arose at some point over time, or a new passage he just made up? Every time I hear it, the passage sticks out at me, and I am wondering who is responsible for the difference.

It is Leopold Auer's "extras" added onto th concerto. After he did not want to play it, the premiere fell to Brodsky. Later, Auer accepted the concerto and taught it to his pupils and also wrote out the "extras" which Heifetz and Kogan used in their recordings.
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: ccar on November 14, 2009, 06:34:42 AM
Quote from: MichaelRabin on November 14, 2009, 02:16:15 AM
Inferior, Carlos. The live Philadelphia Orchestra Rabin-W Smith version is better. Do you have this? Rabin's best concerto recording from that EMI set are the Paganini VC1s.

Yes, from the Philadelphia Centennial set. And I fully agree with you.

Carlos
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Carolus on November 14, 2009, 06:39:33 AM
There are other versions by famous players, but they don't catch
the meaning of the piece, IMO: Ricci, Campoli, Francescatti or Menuhin.
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: MichaelRabin on November 14, 2009, 01:25:02 PM
Its not an "other version" but just some transpositions and re-positionings on chords, arpeggios, cuts that Auer put in. Its is not as different as Paganini-Kreisler VC 1 (1st mvt) against the original Paganini VC . Not that is an entire re-working of the original.
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way I WANT THE WRONG WAY
Post by: snyprrr on June 20, 2014, 09:31:13 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on November 09, 2009, 06:44:31 AM
I agree with Herman. I don't hear "violence and dark undertones" in the Violin Concerto. In fact, quite the opposite. I'm reminded that film compoer Bill Conti stole the first movement's big tune to underscore moments of success and triumph in The Right Stuff. My own favorite version, powerful, intense and moving but never maudlin or kitschy is Boris Belkin's with Ashkenazy conducting.

Sarge

So now, you caught me in an Ashkenazy mood. I was enjoying Belkin's second DSCH 1 recording on Denon- one reeeally hEARS THE TIMPANI IN THE SLOW MOVEMENT HERE!!(WHOOPS)00oo

For Tchai. is was thinking about Kremer,... didn't like Zuckerman... I think for this Tchai. I need extreme...

I really don't like the Big Orchestral Tune in the 1st movement,- I mean,- that's pretty bombastic- but the solo part is just Van Halen all the way. i also liked the Repin and Vengerov and Mullova and Midori-

aye- I can't believe I'm consideing this???- I really must have some CDCDCD if I'm getting TchaiVC. :-[ get get get more more more

unless you have some recs for Prokofiev 4 (either/both) :laugh:
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way KREMER or VENGEROV???
Post by: snyprrr on June 22, 2014, 11:42:28 AM
Kremer or Vengerov?


I've whittled it down to these two. What do you think? Kremer sounds intriguing, even as a First Listen?
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way KREMER or VENGEROV???
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 22, 2014, 11:58:09 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on June 22, 2014, 11:42:28 AM
Kremer or Vengerov?


I've whittled it down to these two. What do you think? Kremer sounds intriguing, even as a First Listen?

If your whittlin' has eliminated Belkin/Ashkenazy, you're doing it wrong  ;)

Sarge
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on June 22, 2014, 04:03:55 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on June 22, 2014, 11:42:28 AM
Kremer or Vengerov?

This one:




[asin]B00008UEFL[/asin]
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Brian on June 22, 2014, 04:14:47 PM
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on June 22, 2014, 04:03:55 PM
This one:


(Sporcl)

GREAT choice. Sporcl, Kogan (Brilliant), and Gluzman are my top three for sure. Julia Fischer is great, too. Haven't heard Vengerov, Belkin, or Kremer, though.
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way KREMER or VENGEROV???
Post by: snyprrr on June 22, 2014, 05:39:15 PM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 22, 2014, 11:58:09 AM
If your whittlin' has eliminated Belkin/Ashkenazy, you're doing it wrong  ;)

Sarge

Only available reissue w/DSCH1? (great timpani in DSCH passacaglia) yes- they say very nicely presented- but never originally on CD?


Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on June 22, 2014, 04:03:55 PM
This one:




[asin]B00008UEFL[/asin]

Ha, I thought you were making a joke at first- Bruce Springsteen??? Booorn to Play Tchai-ko- ov-sky!! :laugh:

Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way KREMER or VENGEROV???
Post by: Brian on June 22, 2014, 05:52:37 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on June 22, 2014, 05:39:15 PM
Ha, I thought you were making a joke at first- Bruce Springsteen??? Booorn to Play Tchai-ko- ov-sky!! :laugh:

It's the bomb diggity. Live performances, and amazingly enough, the Dvorak might be even better. 10/10 for sure.
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on June 22, 2014, 06:11:49 PM
Quote from: Brian on June 22, 2014, 05:52:37 PM
It's the bomb diggity. Live performances, and amazingly enough, the Dvorak might be even better. 10/10 for sure.

Ya.


Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Brian on June 22, 2014, 07:41:00 PM
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on June 22, 2014, 06:11:49 PM
Ya.
OK, I must correct myself. Just listened to the album again, and the Tchaikovsky is the better performance. The Dvorak is very good, but can be bettered by a very special artist (see: Mutter/Honeck), while the Tchaikovsky is simply top-notch, especially the finale, where I don't know anyone better. Helps that Belohlavek draws really detailed, vivid playing from the Czechs. (Love hearing the flute doubling the violin at times.)
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on June 22, 2014, 08:49:37 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on June 22, 2014, 05:39:15 PM
Ha, I thought you were making a joke at first- Bruce Springsteen??? Booorn to Play Tchai-ko- ov-sky!! :laugh:

If it captures your attention I've done my job! :D



Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on June 22, 2014, 08:50:57 PM
Quote from: Brian on June 22, 2014, 07:41:00 PM
OK, I must correct myself. Just listened to the album again, and the Tchaikovsky is the better performance. The Dvorak is very good, but can be bettered by a very special artist (see: Mutter/Honeck), while the Tchaikovsky is simply top-notch, especially the finale, where I don't know anyone better. Helps that Belohlavek draws really detailed, vivid playing from the Czechs. (Love hearing the flute doubling the violin at times.)

I'm on board. :)


Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way KREMER or VENGEROV???
Post by: Drasko on June 23, 2014, 04:14:51 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on June 22, 2014, 11:42:28 AM
Kremer or Vengerov?


I've whittled it down to these two. What do you think? Kremer sounds intriguing, even as a First Listen?

Kremer.

Vengerov provides some really drop dead gorgeous playing, but what Kremer lacks in tonal department he amply compensates in wit. I find Kremer's choices consistently more interesting. Also, I prefer Maazel's accompaniment. He is both more assertive in tutti and manages to sound more intimate in violin/winds interplay in canzonetta. Abbado for all his customary sensitivity sounds more business as usual here, and Teldec placing soloist firmly in front doesn't help.

Should it be your first listen, or only recording? No idea. I wouldn't be without either, nor without Heifetz, Gitlis, Kogan and Spivakovsky. 
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way KREMER or VENGEROV???
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 23, 2014, 04:26:34 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on June 22, 2014, 05:39:15 PM
Only available reissue w/DSCH1? (great timpani in DSCH passacaglia) yes- they say very nicely presented- but never originally on CD?

It was also reissued by Belart coupled with the Piano Concerto. That's what I have. If you could find a copy it would probably only cost you three cents  ;D

(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/may2014/tchaikovskybelkindavis.jpg)


Sarge
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: king ubu on June 23, 2014, 07:04:49 AM
Not that big a fan of the concerto, but some versions I like (got to dig up the Kogan box!) include Morini/Rodzinsky, Ferras/Karajan ... regarding Heifetz, I prefer the Barbirolli, I think (but having only recently acquired the big box, there are more versions to explore there!) ... I also need to re-listen to Oistrakh and to Tretiakow (w/Mariss Jansons, as with Kogan, that one can be found in a Brilliant box, and one that is very much worth looking for, in my opinion). Most recent discovery is Shkolnikova/Kondrashin. Only gave this one spin so far, but yeah, that Doremi disc seems to deserve a listen or two as well!

Also, I don't think the Rabin is as bad as this thread makes you believe ... might in fact be the one I've played most often so far (which doesn't mean I like it best).
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way
Post by: Brahmsian on June 23, 2014, 07:07:58 AM
Does anyone else like the Ruggiero Ricci, with Fournet conducting the Netherlands Radio Symphony?
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way KREMER or VENGEROV???
Post by: snyprrr on June 23, 2014, 08:27:05 AM
Quote from: Drasko on June 23, 2014, 04:14:51 AM
Kremer.

Vengerov provides some really drop dead gorgeous playing, but what Kremer lacks in tonal department he amply compensates in wit. I find Kremer's choices consistently more interesting. Also, I prefer Maazel's accompaniment. He is both more assertive in tutti and manages to sound more intimate in violin/winds interplay in canzonetta. Abbado for all his customary sensitivity sounds more business as usual here, and Teldec placing soloist firmly in front doesn't help.

Should it be your first listen, or only recording? No idea. I wouldn't be without either, nor without Heifetz, Gitlis, Kogan and Spivakovsky.

Yes, I did notice Maazel doing good stuff that apparently other conduxtors just ho-hum at... duuuuuh.... well, I got Vengerov cause he was only 17 cents! haha- but Kremer's only a few bucks.... let's see what the couch says....

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 23, 2014, 04:26:34 AM
It was also reissued by Belart coupled with the Piano Concerto. That's what I have. If you could find a copy it would probably only cost you three cents  ;D

(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/may2014/tchaikovskybelkindavis.jpg)


Sarge

mmmmmm... don't remember seeing that cover- will check .uk- three cents IS my budget right now!! (seriously, it's hit-or-miss, but a lot of things show up for pennies- and then- poof- they're a thousand dollars!)

I mean, Heifetz was pennies (for his ;Triple Threat') but I just don't want to hear that old sound- haha, it just makes me see Bing Crosby playing the violin, haha- I mean,... I can listen to old records AT NOON- but in the evening I need soundSoundSOUND!

(and, yes, I'm being totally a dikk because I've been listening on a rickety boom-box since I joined here) :-[ :-[ :-[ (Should I have even said that??) :-[ :-[ :-[ petrarch surely won't speak to me now!! :(


oy- how much is TODAY going to cost me????
Title: Re: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto - the right way KREMER or VENGEROV???
Post by: snyprrr on June 23, 2014, 04:31:08 PM
Quote from: Drasko on June 23, 2014, 04:14:51 AM
Kremer.

Vengerov provides some really drop dead gorgeous playing, but what Kremer lacks in tonal department he amply compensates in wit. I find Kremer's choices consistently more interesting. Also, I prefer Maazel's accompaniment. He is both more assertive in tutti and manages to sound more intimate in violin/winds interplay in canzonetta. Abbado for all his customary sensitivity sounds more business as usual here, and Teldec placing soloist firmly in front doesn't help.

Should it be your first listen, or only recording? No idea. I wouldn't be without either, nor without Heifetz, Gitlis, Kogan and Spivakovsky.

You maaade me get the Kremer, haha! Well, at least I'll have a compare! ;) ok, well Sporcl and Belkin for later, but that's it for me here, whew, by the skin of my teeth!