Okay GMGers, bored Diner denizens, and classic literature fans,
The reading assignment for October was The Turn of the Screw. It's November 11, so even the laggards among us should be finishing up now. I have read the book (my first time), and I plan to watch a video of the Benjamin Britten opera later today. Then, maybe, I'll consult some Cliff's Notes. ;D
For now, a couple of first impressions. The governess is creepy! I wouldn't let her near children. The narrative style, which is full of innuendo and short on direct, declarative statements, is driving me nuts! (But I expect it is quite deliberate.) The whole "don't ask, don't tell" approach seems to guarantee trouble. Yuck! I found this a very slow read, compared to Gatsby. And whereas Nick Caraway seemed to be a reasonably reliable narrator (at least, regarding anything and anyone other than himself), I don't trust this governess narrator a bit, which leaves me without any sure way of knowing what is actually going on.
I'm looking forward to reading the insights of other Forum members.
Okay, let the discussion begin! ;D I did watch the Britten opera version yesterday, so I have a whole new set of impressions. Please post your thoughts on the book and/or opera. I think I have a DVD of a movie version that I'll be watching, too.
Sorry I dropped the ball on this. I became busier than I imagined. Forgiveness is requested.
Can we make this the November reading assignment? ;D If so, I'll try to read it and participate. Also, if anyone hasn't read it yet, you can download it free in various formats HERE (http://www.feedbooks.com/book/300).
Quote from: MN Dave on November 13, 2009, 05:17:38 AM
Sorry I dropped the ball on this. I became busier than I imagined. Forgiveness is requested.
Well, Dave,
errare humanum est. You're forgiven, my son. (Where's the angel emoticon?) As to Keemun's suggestion that we make this a November reading assignment (for December discussion, I assume), it's fine with me if that will have more people involved. What do you think, Harpo? I have found an entire dissertation written on the subject of various critical modes of thought on
The Turn of the Screw, so I could use the extra reading time. . . ;D
Quote from: secondwind on November 13, 2009, 07:32:45 AM
As to Keemun's suggestion that we make this a November reading assignment (for December discussion, I assume), it's fine with me if that will have more people involved.
I am in favor of starting discussion after Thanksgiving. I haven't read the book yet and would like to see the opera and maybe a film.
(http://open.salon.com/blog/monsieur_chariot/2008/07/18/files/tm_m.chariot_innocents1217297502.jpg)
After Thanksgiving sounds good.
Quote from: secondwind on November 13, 2009, 08:31:49 PM
After Thanksgiving sounds good.
That's better for me, too.
I've decided to cheat and watch the opera instead.
I'm in.
No, really.
I'm reading Wharton; might as well throw in some James. They were pals after all.
Quote from: Amvend on November 16, 2009, 05:11:11 AM
I'm in.
No, really.
Haven't we met before? Are you a Dr.?
I play one on message boards.
This one's next up in my reading pile.
What do you think of James' style?
Quote from: MN Dave on November 23, 2009, 05:24:53 AM
What do you think of James' style?
Well, the word "turgid" comes to mind. Here's a sample, taken more or less at random:
QuoteBut it was a comfort that there could be no uneasiness in a connexion with anything so beatific as the radiant image of my little girl, the vision of whose angelic beauty had probably more than anythng else to do with the restlessness that, before morning, made me several times rise and wander about my room to take in the whole picture and prospect; to watch from my open window the faint summer dawn, to look at such stretches of the rest of the house as I could catch, and to listen, while in the fading dusk the first birds began to twitter, for the possible recurrence of a sound or two, less natural and not without but within, that I had fancied I heard.
That's one sentence. One. (Diagram that! she thinks.)
Exactly what I was thinking. Interesting though; he and Edith Wharton were friends yet she has a much more modern style of writing.
Quote from: MN Dave on November 23, 2009, 06:12:57 AM
Exactly what I was thinking. Interesting though; he and Edith Wharton were friends yet she has a much more modern style of writing.
I love reading the books from Edith Wharton....she remembers me of Winnifred Holtby and Vera Brittain, wholly forgotten now, but not by me, who doesn't remember Brittains Testament's books...I do, somehow a time that attracts me greatly, that time had style.....
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.campaign.ox.ac.uk/images/hi_res/2871_brittain.p.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.campaign.ox.ac.uk/campaign/oxford_thinkers/vera_brittain.html&usg=__3muRh3QBSjy1lSlX3Ul1zEAtd-I=&h=245&w=215&sz=31&hl=nl&start=11&tbnid=zeMToqkMaGIeLM:&tbnh=110&tbnw=97&prev=/images%3Fq%3DVera%2BBrittain%26hl%3Dnl%26lr%3Dlang_nl%26sa%3DN%26newwindow%3D1
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://prismdata.hullcc.gov.uk:8080/DServe/whportrait.jpg&imgrefurl=http://prismdata.hullcc.gov.uk:8080/DServe/winifredholtby.html&usg=__TnAGo8k23i2GMXodbxWfdtZ5ZkU=&h=326&w=241&sz=25&hl=nl&start=8&tbnid=XO4GHBunPp9-yM:&tbnh=118&tbnw=87&prev=/images%3Fq%3DWinnifred%2BHoltby%26hl%3Dnl%26lr%3Dlang_nl%26sa%3DN%26newwindow%3D1
Quote from: Harry on November 23, 2009, 06:27:55 AM
I love reading the books from Edith Wharton...
Me too, Harry. So far I've read a collection of ghost stories and
Ethan Frome. Will be looking for more Wharton in the future.
Quote from: secondwind on November 23, 2009, 06:09:33 AM
Well, the word "turgid" comes to mind.
Excellent description; and I would add "verbose." I read the following sentence last night and, while I was able to piece together some understanding from the context in which it appeared, I am still not sure exactly what James was trying to say.
QuoteThis was not so good a thing, I admit, as not to leave me to judge that what, essentially, made nothing else much signify was simply my charming work.
I find the story interesting, but I'm close to abandoning it because of James' writing style. >:(
I remember that sentence!
Don't abandon it. You get used to the style after a while.
I might not finish by Thanksgiving (have other stuff I'm obligated to read) but will complete my reading shortly thereafter.
Quote from: Keemun on November 24, 2009, 05:34:25 AM
I find the story interesting, but I'm close to abandoning it because of James' writing style. >:(
To quote Oscar Wilde: "Mr. Henry James writes fiction as if it were a painful duty."
Quote from: MN Dave on November 24, 2009, 05:36:40 AM
I remember that sentence!
Don't abandon it. You get used to the style after a while.
I might not finish by Thanksgiving (have other stuff I'm obligated to read) but will complete my reading shortly thereafter.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I won't finish by Thanksgiving either, as I'm not even half way through it and I started last week. I'll keep reading and as long as the story line doesn't crash and burn I should be able to finish it.
Quote from: Contents Under Pressure on November 24, 2009, 05:43:31 AM
To quote Oscar Wilde: "Mr. Henry James writes fiction as if it were a painful duty."
So far, I agree with Oscar Wilde. ::)
Quote from: Keemun on November 24, 2009, 05:53:46 AM
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I won't finish by Thanksgiving either, as I'm not even half way through it and I started last week. I'll keep reading and as long as the story line doesn't crash and burn I should be able to finish it.
So far, I agree with Oscar Wilde. ::)
He did have a way with words. . . The only James I have read before is
Washington Square. I'll have to check to see if the prose there was anywhere near as convoluted as in
The Turn of the Screw. I don't remember it being that bad.
Quote from: secondwind on November 24, 2009, 10:24:20 AM
He did have a way with words. . .
Cue: "The Long & Winding Road" . . . ?
I <3 that song.
I watched the film The Innocents with Deborah Kerr this week; it was based on the Turn of the Screw. I think I'm sorry I did that, because I believe I know what comes later as I'm reading. The story in my edition is only 137 pages, so I don't think I'll have trouble finishing it. I'll try to get some background info.
My book has six novellas including Turn. Wonder if I'll read the others. ;D
Quote from: Harpo on November 24, 2009, 02:16:45 PM
I watched the film The Innocents with Deborah Kerr this week; it was based on the Turn of the Screw. I think I'm sorry I did that, because I believe I know what comes later as I'm reading. The story in my edition is only 137 pages, so I don't think I'll have trouble finishing it. I'll try to get some background info.
Does your edition have the Preface to the New York Edition in it? That's quite interesting to read.
Quote from: secondwind on November 24, 2009, 10:24:20 AM
He did have a way with words. . . The only James I have read before is Washington Square. I'll have to check to see if the prose there was anywhere near as convoluted as in The Turn of the Screw. I don't remember it being that bad.
Try late James! ;D Prolix, convoluted, but painstakingly (painfully?) crafted - I love it. :D
Yesterday I decided to abandon
The Turn of the Screw. A little more than half way through I reached the point where James' writing became unbearably annoying. I was skimming large chunks of unnecessary text and only paying attention to dialogue, of which there is little. It had become a reading assignment rather than a pleasure to read. So I'm returning to other books I was reading before picking up
The Turn of the Screw.
Quote from: MN Dave on November 24, 2009, 05:36:40 AM
Don't abandon it. You get used to the style after a while.
Rather than get used to James' style, I finally grew weary of it. I wanted to tell him to "shut the hell up and get on with the story!" >:(
-----
P.S. I hope the rest of you enjoyed
The Turn of the Screw. Please don't let my negativity poison the discussion. :)
Oh, Keemun, I'm so disappointed! I saw your post, and I thought "At last, the conversation begins!" I was looking forward to your insights. . . I must admit, I had the same feeling, and pretty much the same thought (shut the hell up and get on with the story!). I kept slogging through, with the increasing suspicious that all the indirect, circuitous language WAS the story in some way. I was desperate for a clear, declarative sentence, and I don't think I ever did find one.
Who were the people who suggested this book? Where are they? Comments, please, from someone?
Quote from: secondwind on November 30, 2009, 07:31:37 PM
Oh, Keemun, I'm so disappointed! I saw your post, and I thought "At last, the conversation begins!" I was looking forward to your insights. . . I must admit, I had the same feeling, and pretty much the same thought (shut the hell up and get on with the story!). I kept slogging through, with the increasing suspicious that all the indirect, circuitous language WAS the story in some way. I was desperate for a clear, declarative sentence, and I don't think I ever did find one.
Sorry to have disappointed you. :-[ The point at which I stopped reading, I wondered if the governess even knew what she was talking about. In my opinion, she drew conclusions about the ghosts' intentions and their connection with the children that lacked support. I felt that what she was telling her sidekick to be the truth (the ghosts were after the children) was nothing more than a conclusion she made up to explain the situation. And the odd behavior of the children was not believable. They seemed to have a maturity beyond their ages. But as you said, perhaps all of this WAS the point of the story. I don't know, because I didn't finish it.
Quote from: secondwind on November 30, 2009, 07:31:37 PM
Who were the people who suggested this book? Where are they? Comments, please, from someone?
admiralackbar74 (whoever that is), suggested it
HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,14041.msg347842.html#msg347842), and then there was a vote.
It was there I found myself -- north, some twenty miles of home -- chaperone for my charges who rehearsed the Rite of Spring, and where, as boredom rose from lack of familiar companionship, a flicker of memory retrieved my "Turn of the Screw" paperback tucked deeply between the bucket seats and, reading by sheer force of will the entire tale -- though agitation threatened me to stop again and again -- I came to the end to find myself weary of eye, head throbbing, and unable to write in anything but run-on sentences.
Hah! It was haunting you! >:D