These caught my attention from the library presently using, all new to me-
Rimsky-Korsakov Tsar Saltan (what's the flight of the bumblebee like in its original setting?)
WFBach complete keyboard works (I know one already, full of character)
Guerrero Requiem- I'm familiar with a somewhat boring polyphonic mass by this late 16th c master
Dhomont- electronics fantasizing (Jonty Harrison is one of the few 'composers' in electroacoustic worth a mention)
Pettersson- Double violin sonatas
Part- Miserere & Te Deum
Gal- complete orchestral works (sure, the Serenade is memorable)
Rihm- Lieder (what curious kind of useless gibberish can it be?)
C.Schumann- complete piano works
Baird- orchestral works (I know his early Bartokian PC)
Quote from: Sean on November 22, 2009, 11:20:20 AM
These caught my attention from the library presently using, all new to me-
Rimsky-Korsakov Tsar Saltan (what's the flight of the bumblebee like in its original setting?)
Funny you should mention that work
Sean 8)! As hard as I tried I could not find a complete recording of that opera.....perhaps someone here can help both of us find a COMPLETE recording Rimsky-Korsakov's illusive work.
marvin
Quote from: Sean on November 22, 2009, 11:20:20 AM
...C.Schumann- complete piano works
You've heard her A minor Piano Concerto, I suppose? I have, and it's a fine piece, more tightly constructed than her husband's and in the same key. I've also heard her unfinished F minor Piano Concerto, but I'm not quite as enthusiastic about it. Still, I'd be interested to know what you think of her solo work; I suspect it's pretty good.
Incidentally, Fanny Mendelssohn-Henselt's Piano Trio in D minor, Opus 11, is as fine a piece as anything her brother ever wrote. 8)
Quote from: jochanaan on November 22, 2009, 03:27:17 PM
Incidentally, Fanny Mendelssohn-Henselt's Piano Trio in D minor, Opus 11, is as fine a piece as anything her brother ever wrote. 8)
First you talk about rap as being "awe inspiring", now this. jochanaan is losing it.
Quote from: marvinbrown on November 22, 2009, 12:35:03 PM
Funny you should mention that work Sean 8)! As hard as I tried I could not find a complete recording of that opera.....perhaps someone here can help both of us find a COMPLETE recording Rimsky-Korsakov's illusive work.
marvin
Right here,
marvin! :)
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,42.msg74775.html#msg74775
Quote from: Sean on November 22, 2009, 11:20:20 AM
Rihm- Lieder (what curious kind of useless gibberish can it be?)
Good to see someone so unprejudiced and discerning. ¬_¬
Dhomont's one of the pioneers. And at 83, he's still blazing trails.
And while I agree that Jonty is one of the good ones, I'd say that he's one of the many good ones. Smalley, Nelson, Barrett, Groult, Bokanowski, Ferrari, Oswald, Normandeau, Calon, Gobeil, Brümmer, Cline, Simpson, Ferreyra, Bedard, Mandolini, Reith, Dufort, Tremblay, shall I go on?
Quote from: Corey on November 22, 2009, 04:09:20 PM
Good to see someone so unprejudiced and discerning. ¬_¬
This insightful thread from my favorite music blogger, about listening into the music and evolving one's own listening abilities, comes to mind:
http://www.overgrownpath.com/2009/11/lost-art-of-listening.html (http://www.overgrownpath.com/2009/11/lost-art-of-listening.html)
Let's just say that some are better at that, than others!
Quote from: Corey on November 22, 2009, 04:09:20 PM
Quote from: SeanRihm- Lieder (what curious kind of useless gibberish can it be?)
Good to see someone so unprejudiced and discerning. ¬_¬
Busted! ; )
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on November 22, 2009, 03:40:40 PM
First you talk about rap as being "awe inspiring", now this. jochanaan is losing it.
Not that we should let the facts interfere with your bone-headed prejudices; but have you actually heard (or, better still, played) the D minor Piano Trio, Opus 11, which jochanaan has thus praised? No, I thought not. As I browse through the book How to Talk About Books You Haven't Read (http://www.amazon.com/Talk-About-Books-Havent-Read/dp/1596915439/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258982022&sr=1-1), I think of you, you hopeless sot. Thanks for the ongoing laughs!
Quote from: erato on November 23, 2009, 03:59:16 AM
This insightful thread from my favorite music blogger, about listening into the music and evolving one's own listening abilities, comes to mind:
http://www.overgrownpath.com/2009/11/lost-art-of-listening.html (http://www.overgrownpath.com/2009/11/lost-art-of-listening.html)
Let's just say that some are better at that, than others!
That was a nice article, thanks. I read him fairly regularly but somehow missed it.
QuoteSean
Rimsky-Korsakov Tsar Saltan (what's the flight of the bumblebee like in its original setting?)
Yes, it represents the Prince Gvidon, changed in a bumblebee tormenting his Aunts and the Czar, in the 3rd Act.
There is a very good version, with Ivanovsky and Petrov, conducted by Nebolssin (1955).
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 23, 2009, 04:14:26 AM
Not that we should let the facts interfere with your bone-headed prejudices; but have you actually heard (or, better still, played) the D minor Piano Trio, Opus 11, which jochanaan has thus praised?
Yes i did, by two different performers no less (Dartington Trio and Trio Bentano). It is awkward, sterile and amateurish. Everything about it has this sense of disjointness and its full of hesitations, like somebody who was trying to imitate Felix without having a clear idea of how to do it besides raw technical mimicry. Anybody who thinks this lesser counterfeit is as good as the original needs to check themselves in the head.
The WF Bach will be great, Sean. He was one incredible composer! The Polonaises are just superb, possibly the greatest single set of keyboard music of their interestingly-poised time (IIRC Brahms thought extremely highly of them). The Fantasias too, are occasionally stupefying pieces, as indeed are some movements of the sonatas... WF's blend of superb technique (daddy's oldest boy....), unorthodox and sometimes shocking harmony, perverse rhythmic subtleties, wilful melodic lines, in general the most extreme empfindsamer stil one could encounter, combined with as solid and comprehensive a set of contrapuntal skills as one will find in a composer of this time (and acknowledged as such by his contemporaries)....yes, there's great stuff here.
The Part - the Te Deum is one of my least favourite Part pieces, the Miserere one of my favourites. The general rule of thumb with Part, for me, is that the earlier tintinabuli stuff is the most compelling, the most powerful. I've said this on previous Part threads; I think it's a view that others around here share. He hit upon this method of composing which just works, in its own right, and which is, in that own right, as perfect as a musical style can be, from every angle. Unfortunately, he was then condemned to either repeat himself or to develop the style further. He took this latter course - how could he not? - with the result, to my ears that his more recent music is comparatively disappointing. The Te Deum is better than this, I think, but it's less compelling than e.g. the earlier Stabat Mater or the Passion. The Miserere, by my own rule of thumb, ought to be similarly disappointing - but I love it!! It succeeds by strength of character, and is perhaps the most obviously dramatic and passionate of Part's tintinabular works.
Hi jochanaan (& Josquin & Karl), yes I know the Clara concerto and Fanny trio- I wouldn't compare either of them to the more famous examples but they certainly widen the picture of both forms at the time; the Felix Mendelssohn trios are lightweight but rise above the average with their freshness and invention...
some guy, well we can argue over the trivialities of electroniana some other time; I know only Dennis Smalley of the names you mention; I guess there's the Harvey Vivo plango piece.
val, thanks for that sensible comment- where would I be without you? The version in the library here is indeed the one you mention.
By the way there's two more operas here I want to borrow asap- do you know Giordano's Fedora or Erkel's Hunyadi Laszlo?
Hi
Luke, appreciate the thoughts there, maybe indeed I should invest some time in this repertory: the only keyboard piece of WF's I've heard before is the
Double harpsichord sonata op.10, which did really stay with me and made me want to explore more. I have persevered with a few CPE works including the Wq.63 set but I didn't find them so inspired.
Your descriptions sound exactly like what I remember (along with three other orchestral pieces of his I've got hold of)- I guess you've persuaded me...
Re Part, yes there are some choral pieces that work in very similar idioms, as with the Tavener case, and thus I haven't bothered with him for a long while; the likes of
Im Spiegel and
Tabula are amazing though- and you're saying the
Miserere is one of such tintinabular works...
Cheers.
Quote from: Luke on November 23, 2009, 06:15:19 AM
The WF Bach will be great, Sean. He was one incredible composer! The Polonaises are just superb, possibly the greatest single set of keyboard music of their interestingly-poised time (IIRC Brahms thought extremely highly of them). The Fantasias too, are occasionally stupefying pieces, as indeed are some movements of the sonatas... WF's blend of superb technique (daddy's oldest boy....), unorthodox and sometimes shocking harmony, perverse rhythmic subtleties, wilful melodic lines, in general the most extreme empfindsamer stil one could encounter, combined with as solid and comprehensive a set of contrapuntal skills as one will find in a composer of this time (and acknowledged as such by his contemporaries)....yes, there's great stuff here.
The Part - the Te Deum is one of my least favourite Part pieces, the Miserere one of my favourites. The general rule of thumb with Part, for me, is that the earlier tintinabuli stuff is the most compelling, the most powerful. I've said this on previous Part threads; I think it's a view that others around here share. He hit upon this method of composing which just works, in its own right, and which is, in that own right, as perfect as a musical style can be, from every angle. Unfortunately, he was then condemned to either repeat himself or to develop the style further. He took this latter course - how could he not? - with the result, to my ears that his more recent music is comparatively disappointing. The Te Deum is better than this, I think, but it's less compelling than e.g. the earlier Stabat Mater or the Passion. The Miserere, by my own rule of thumb, ought to be similarly disappointing - but I love it!! It succeeds by strength of character, and is perhaps the most obviously dramatic and passionate of Part's tintinabular works.
Baird's is the type of modernism you're usually not fond of, but I'd give him a try anyway. What exactly does the disc contain (and who's playing)? The Olympia and Polskie Nagrania discs are all very good, but the Signum one isn't (IMHO) - the performances are quite uninspired.
Quote from: Novi on November 22, 2009, 03:45:31 PM
Right here, marvin! :)
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,42.msg74775.html#msg74775
NOVI 0:) 0:) 0:) you are an angel!! Thank you so much for that link. I just downloaded the 3 operas (The Tsar Saltan, Christmas Eve and The Tale of the Invisible City and the Maiden Fevronia) and can't wait to hear them.
thank you so much, I owe you one!
marvin
Quote from: Sean on November 23, 2009, 06:17:43 AM
some guy, well we can argue over the trivialities of electroniana some other time; I know only Dennis Smalley of the names you mention; I guess there's the Harvey Vivo plango piece.
I'd rather argue over the profundities of elecroniana myself. (And you do know that admitting that you only know Dennis Smalley of the names I mentioned means that you cannot in good conscience claim that Harrison is "one of the few...worth a mention or one of the many worth a mention." You'd need to know a few more of the many before you could know who the few are, at the very least. ;D)
Maciek, the Baird pieces are Psychodrama and Tomorrow on an Olympia CD recorded 1980...
Marvin, the Rimsky-Korsakov operas are a remarkable expressive corner of exquisite sweet sugar and fairy tale settings with little character development; the Invisible city though is a bit different, more serious and mysterious and with parallels with Prokofiev's Fiery Angel and its soundworld.
some guy, I've explored electronics wanderings, some quite good actually (special mention for Westerkamp) by these among others-
ALBRIGHT, William (1944- American)
AUSTIN, Larry (1930- American)
BABBITT, Milton (1916- American)
BAYLE, Francois (1932- French)
BOULEZ, Pierre (1926- French)
CAGE, John (1912-92 American)
GOEYVAERTS, Karel (1923-93 Belgian)
MADERNA, Bruno (1920-73 Italian)
NONO, Luigi (1924-90 Italian)
NORDHEIM, Arne (1931- Norwegian)
PARMEGIANI, Bernard (1927- French)
POUSSEUR, Henri (1929- Belgian)
SCHAEFFER, Pierre (1910-95 French)
STOCKHAUSEN, Karlheinz (1928-2007 German)
SUBOTNIK, Morton (1933- American)
VARESE, Edgar (1883-1965 French/ American)
SZYMANOWSKI, Karol (1882-1937 Polish)
WESTERKAMP, Hildegard (1946- Canadian)
Westerkamp.
Thank you Sean. That was a name I was going to put on my list, but I couldn't pull her name out of the old memory bank. But of course. Hildegard Westerkamp's a good 'un, that's fo sho.
Quote from: Sean on November 23, 2009, 12:03:56 PM
Maciek, the Baird pieces are Psychodrama and Tomorrow on an Olympia CD recorded 1980...
Well, Psychodrama is certainly top notch Baird, one of his greatest pieces. Tomorrow, on the other hand, is an opera. And while it is short for an opera, it does
seem quite long to me. It's probably Baird's most "difficult" work. So if you want a piece that might take more than a few listening sessions to "crack", you should go for it. Anyway, Psychodrama is certainly worth your time.
Quote
SZYMANOWSKI, Karol (1882-1937 Polish)
Unless you've made some absolutely amazing discovery (which I want to hear more about!), that should
probably read:
SZYMANSKI, Pawel (1954- Polish)
;)
Quote from: erato on November 23, 2009, 03:59:16 AM
This insightful thread from my favorite music blogger, about listening into the music and evolving one's own listening abilities, comes to mind:
http://www.overgrownpath.com/2009/11/lost-art-of-listening.html (http://www.overgrownpath.com/2009/11/lost-art-of-listening.html)
Let's just say that some are better at that, than others!
I enjoyed reading this, thank you! :)
Quote from: Sean on November 22, 2009, 11:20:20 AM
These caught my attention from the library presently using, all new to me-
Rimsky-Korsakov Tsar Saltan (what's the flight of the bumblebee like in its original setting?)
Sean I just had to write back and say that I am listening to Tsar Saltan and my God what a pleasant surprise this opera is proving to be!! The opera is filled with lyrical,beautiful melodies and chorus lines! Flight of the bumble bee appears in Act 3 and the bumble bee motif repeats throughout the Act. The soprano joins in and then later, the chorus- the effect is quite stunning. This whole business of playing the Flight of the bumble bee as a "suite" is bulls**t (pardon my French!). It should be heard in its context. The way Rimsky-Korsakov intended it to be. Rimsky-Korsakov was one hell of an orchestrator and devoted much of his career to opera. Why oh why aren't his operas recorded and performed in the West! >:( >:(
I started a thread a while back on Russian operas- it was short lived >:( ! We in the West should be ashamed of ourselves for neglecting this very fine opera composer! He was a fan of Wagner too- BLESS HIM!
marvin
Quote from: marvinbrown on November 30, 2009, 09:56:27 AM
I started a thread a while back on Russian operas- it was short lived >:( ! We in the West should be ashamed of ourselves for neglecting this very fine opera composer!
Valery Gergiev has been one of the most important advocates for Rimsky-Korsakov's operas (and Russian operas in general). Thanks to him, I've seen
The Legend of the Invisible City of Kitezh, which probably never would have arrived here otherwise, and a concert version of
The Snow Maiden. Both are filled with terrific music.
--Bruce
Quote from: bhodges on November 30, 2009, 10:19:02 AM
Valery Gergiev has been one of the most important advocates for Rimsky-Korsakov's operas (and Russian operas in general). Thanks to him, I've seen The Legend of the Invisible City of Kitezh, which probably never would have arrived here otherwise, and a concert version of The Snow Maiden. Both are filled with terrific music.
--Bruce
True
Bruce...very true- however in the past it has been a challenge to get a hold of COMPLETE recordings of Rimsky-Korsakov's operas. The website
Novi linked us to is invaluable! I had no trouble downloading all three operas and I would urge everyone here to do the same. Happy listening :).
marvin
I suspect that, like a lot of operas, the plots of these are too fanciful (or perhaps just plain weird) for some. Haven't heard Tsar Sultan yet, but would definitely be up for it, based on Rimsky-Korsakov's output. What a fantastic orchestrator.
--Bruce
Quote from: bhodges on November 30, 2009, 10:41:12 AM
I suspect that, like a lot of operas, the plots of these are too fanciful (or perhaps just plain weird) for some. Haven't heard Tsar Sultan yet, but would definitely be up for it, based on Rimsky-Korsakov's output. What a fantastic orchestrator.
--Bruce
Funny: this is the first sentence on the page linked for the three operas
QuoteDamned with faint praise--"a great orchestrator"--Rimsky-Korsakov is almost always treated as a minor figure outside of Russia.
:)
Quote from: Franco on November 30, 2009, 10:51:18 AM
Funny: this is the first sentence on the page linked for the three operas
:)
It bears repeating
Franco 8).......it bears repeating :)!
marvin
Hi Marvin
QuoteSean I just had to write back and say that I am listening to Tsar Saltan and my God what a pleasant surprise this opera is proving to be!! The opera is filled with lyrical,beautiful melodies and chorus lines!
Yes, R-K's operatic output is his major achievement but the West seems determined to ignore it- it's one of music's paradoxes; one thing is the particular dramatically static idiom but there are plenty of similar Western European works that have succeeded. I know several,
May night making an impression on me exactly like this one on you.
QuoteFlight of the bumble bee appears in Act 3 and the bumble bee motif repeats throughout the Act. The soprano joins in and then later, the chorus- the effect is quite stunning. This whole business of playing the Flight of the bumble bee as a "suite" is bulls**t (pardon my French!).
No doubt it is, and no doubt the practice is part of the prejudice.
QuoteKorsakov was one hell of an orchestrator...
Absolutely.
My library has these attractions, all new to me- any thoughts welcome.
Albrechtsberger & Krumpholz Harp concertos
Bach, JC La Clemenza di Scipione
Bartok Microcosmos
Bellini Beatrice di tenda
Bellini I Capulet ii Montecchi
Bridge songs
Busoni Arlecchino & Turandot
Carver Mass Cantate domino
Chabrier Le roi Malgre lui
Donizetti Lucrezia Borgia
Donizetti Maria Stuarda
Donizetti Poliuto
Dove Flight
Feldman String quartet
Floyd Of mice and men
Handel L'Allegro
Isaac sacred
Jacob & Stanford Organ
Johnson, Robert Sacred
Kabalevski Colas Breugnon
Massenet Le Cid
Nordheim Var
Leighton & Parry Organ
Lully Le bourgeois Gentilh
Riley Var
Rossini Tancredi
Rutter Sacred
Sinding Var
Wagenseil Harp concerto
Vivaldi Dorilla in Tempe
Yun Var
Merging. Sorry, Sean, no reason to keep these in two separate threads. $:)
I'd think I Capuleti e i Montecchi, Lucrezia Borgia and Maria Stuarda would be pretty self-evident choices, if you don't know them, as well as the Rossini and Lully. Microcosmos can be quite fun to play, even the easiest pieces, but I can imagine that listening through all of it might be tiring. Or maybe not, who knows, it might turn out quite fascinating. Nordheim is a composer I'm quite fond of, I wonder what you'd think of him.
Back to Rimsky; tickle your ears with this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBwXt_06T9w&feature=related
Mike
Thanks
Maciek; no I don't know those important Donizetti operas, nor the Rossini, or his
Semiramide that's also available here. I've explored a couple of Nordheim works- they're broodingly Nordic and encourage further exploration; I borrowed
Microcosmos years back but got bored with it after about 15 minutes- must try harder.
Quote from: Maciek on December 04, 2009, 09:33:39 AM
Merging. Sorry, Sean, no reason to keep these in two separate threads. $:)
I'd think I Capuleti e i Montecchi, Lucrezia Borgia and Maria Stuarda would be pretty self-evident choices, if you don't know them, as well as the Rossini and Lully. Microcosmos can be quite fun to play, even the easiest pieces, but I can imagine that listening through all of it might be tiring. Or maybe not, who knows, it might turn out quite fascinating. Nordheim is a composer I'm quite fond of, I wonder what you'd think of him.