GMG Classical Music Forum

I can't believe there's no thread for this, but I checked and was unable to find one.

I'm currently listening to (and greatly enjoying) a used CD that I picked up for $1.99 yesterday -- Arthur Grumiaux with Galliera/New Philharmonia -- after realizing that Grumiaux was one "big-name" violinists that I had never heard in this work. 

So, what are your personal favorites, and why?   

David Oistrakh.  He has recorded this work for at least 7 ot 8 times and I have most of them.  Just pick any one (probably except for the Gauk recording) and you won't be disappointed. 

I have around 40 different versions of the Beethoven, most are admirable and worthy of high praise, some of my strong favourites have always been the likes of Schneiderhan, Grumiaux (2), Szeryng, Heifetz (RCA), Chung, Oistrakh, Perlman/Giulini etc etc, here are just a few of 'perhaps, lesser known' performances which would grace anyones library.

Christian Ferras/Karajan/Berlin - beautiful tone from Ferras, a real delectable, lump in throat version.

Hermann Krebbers/Haitink/Royal Concertgebouw - one of those must hear LVB's as every bit as outstanding as his Brahms, marvellous playing from Krebbers, perfect Dutch partnership.

Oscar Shumsky/A. Davis/Philharmonia - sumptuous playing from Shumsky, not sure if this is still in the catalogue, super budget IIRC.

Yehudi Menuhin/Constantin Silvestri/VPO - this is my most enjoyable Menuhin, Silvestri and the VPO do exactly what the 'accompanyment' should do, powerful playing but not overwhelming.  Menuhin is sheer class in this recording, I would go so far as to say his finest recording, and one of my top tens.  Great ride, relentlessly beautiful.

Aaron Rosand/Derrick Inouye/Monte Carlo PO - Another one of those obscur-ish recordings with 'maybe' a lesser known conductor and not one of the big orchestras, but how do they play!  Rosand's tone, drive and power in the first movement is a masterclass, the second and third movements too are beyond reproach, a superb recording.

Quote from: jwinter on January 06, 2010, 03:47:43 PM
I can't believe there's no thread for this, but I checked and was unable to find one.

I'm currently listening to (and greatly enjoying) a used CD that I picked up for $1.99 yesterday -- Arthur Grumiaux with Galliera/New Philharmonia -- after realizing that Grumiaux was one "big-name" violinists that I had never heard in this work. 

So, what are your personal favorites, and why?

Zino Francescatti with Bruno Walter conducting the Columbia Symphony.  It's very lyrical without a dull note from the violin solo.  It's the most interesting and beautiful of any of the recordings of this work I have heard.

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Sibelius-Concertos-Ludwig-van/dp/B0000027OR/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1262829862&sr=1-1#moreAboutThisProduct

I have an earlier Columbia CD reissue.  I believe I have the same Oistrakh/Ormandy recording of the Sibelius VC coupling and it's pretty good but not my favorite.

I have Grumiaux/Colin Davis on LP.  It's good and very well recorded.

Well duh?

But seriously, I love the beautiful tone, the cadenzas are marvelous, the tempos are just right for my taste, and the sound quality is outstanding.  Janine Jansen came out with a recording recently that I'd like to try as well.  Perlman would be my "old school" choice.

Mullova/Gardiner on Philips. OOP I believe, though.

Beethoven's violin concerto seems to be a rite of passage for many fiddlers, and as I have discovered more and more instrumentalists I like, I tend to seek their renditions out as a sort of vetting device. This means that, like AnthonyAthletic, I have a LOT of recordings, both studio and live, both historic and modern. The ones I consider essential:

Heifetz/Munch (RCA)
Oistrakh/Cluytens (EMI/Angel)
Krebbers/Haitink (Philips)
Schneiderhan/Jochum (DGG)
Francescatti/Walter (CBS)

These five are, to my ears, so strong and so distinctly different in tone and presentation (at least, one from another) that I would not willingly do without any of them. I first heard them in their analog vinyl form and I still own them all on LP (and have replicated most on CD as well). That said, I do have a lot of others that I love. Highlights include:

- Kreisler/Blech (ancient, yes, but still great).
- Szigeti/Walter with "unnamed" British orchestra from 1932 (their slightly later NY collaboration is interesting, too, but this one is better performed IMO and a truly a great recording).
- Hubermann/Szell
- Kulenkampff/Schmidt-Isserstedt from 1936
- Wolfsthal/Gurlitt/Berlin from 1929 (truly magnificent...if you can find it; it was in the 6-CD "historic" volume of the DGG Beethoven Edition)
- Rohn/Furtwangler (my very favorite with Furtwangler accompanying...classic and IMO way ahead of the Menuhin, though I do like Furt's rendition with Schneiderhan)
- Oistrakh/Sixten Ehrling
- Grumiaux/van Beinum
- Grumiaux/C.Davis (gorgeous ripe analog recording of the Concertgebouw, and the first two movements are utterly wonderful; the finale I'm less than totally convinced by).
- Milstein/Steinberg/Pittsburgh
- Kogan (late '50s)
- Stern/Bernstein (too powerful and intense not to be high on the list, but let down by recording a bit)
- Suk/Boult (this is one that, in its vinyl edition in the "old days." I felt was insufferably slow and stodgy and disappointing, since I usually love Suk's playing; a whim purchase of the CD transfer totally transformed my opinion...not top tier now but definitely a good and joyful listen).


Historic recordings that I think will become favored versions after I've lived with them a bit longer: Adolf Busch/F.Busch/NY, Bustabo/Mengelberg/COA. One I'm still evaluating: Neveu/Rosbaud. Ones so bad they're really, REALLY sad: Zimmermann/Mengelberg (made as the retirement swansong of that former concertmaster of the Concertgebouw) and Enescu/Kuypers (made when the intonation of that once fabulous violinist had utterly melted down). Avoid these, folks. Historic recordings I wish were available: ones by Martzy, Elman (there may be one but I haven't seen or heard it), Spalding in his prime, ditto Enescu, Morini, De Vito, Ossy Renardy, additional performances by Neveu.

In the realm of living and active violinists, I find myself most impressed by: Batiashvili/Vanska in a live performance from 2000; Joshua Bell/Norrington; Hillary Hahn (a truly fine one); Kremer/Harnoncourt (MUCH better than I'd expected...I'm not a great fan of Kremer's tone in older classical and romantic works, but this is impressive), and Tetzlaff/Zinman.

Modern ones I'm still waiting for: Cho-Liang Lin, Carmignola (hey...it could happen).

Ones even I'm kinda surprised that I've never warmed up to: Perlman/Giulini (I like this one, just don't love it), Ferras/Karajan, Mutter, Accardo, Zukerman. Go figure.

Enough already. Me, I want to hear the Menuhin/Silvestri and the Rosand that AA mentioned...
;D

Dirk

Grumiaux (Galliera or Davis), Szeryng (Haitink),  impart a lofty classical perfection to the work. Schneiderhan (3 versions, all with the BPO on DGG), Rosand, Tetzlaff (w. Gielen) offer a more volatile, sometimes unpredictable but still silvery voice to the work ('silvery' is the operative word, the quality that distinguishes the best beethovenian exponents): classical-era Schéhérazades. I'm not so enamoured of Oistrakh, a more bovine interpreter - yet capable of supreme refinements as a violinist. I see Youtube has an Oistrakh-Boult video on offer. More food for hearing - and thought!

Great partnership too from Francescatti/Walter and Ferras/Karajan, warmly effusive, incandescent yet noble versions. Every one of those (and there are more of course, like Heifetz and Munch) offer a combustible approach to Beethoven's magnum opus that makes one understand why he/she's always searching for the elusive perfection. Much less to my taste is the greasy fiddling of Perlman (emotionally, that is, not instrumentally). Conversely, I've always thought Krebber's vaunted interpretation slightly too lightweigth for the music he seeks to inhabit. Strangely, it's as if Beethoven's orchestra (Haitink's RCO) had grown to today's sizes effortlessly, but the fiddling had been unable to fit into today's expectations - it sounds too small emotionally, however beautiful and pure in tone. As if Krebbers' conception had been more appropriate to pre-Kreisler, even pre-Joachim days.

Another old-timer with many sterling qualities: Bronislaw Gimpel (w. Heinrich Hollreiser). I don't know if that's available right now, but it circulate around. Recommended if you stumble upon it.

Having become satiated, even bored, by the concerto after thirty-five years listening to various performances, the Zehetmair/Brüggen CD was the blast of proverbial fresh air that renewed my enthusiasm for the work. Despite the merits of the classic performances mentioned in this thread, Zehetmair is now my desert island pick.

Sarge

Thanks to all!  Lots of great info here, which will lead me to relisten to several already on my shelves, and add a few more to ye olde wishe liste.  Cheers!

My favorite here is definitely Christian Ferras paired with Karajan.  Ferras' tone is wonderful – even more so on LP than CD, which can make him sound just a bit wiry in comparison – and the big, mushy accompaniment fits well.  Hits the spot every time.

Quote from: jwinter on January 06, 2010, 03:47:43 PM
I can't believe there's no thread for this, but I checked and was unable to find one.

I'm currently listening to (and greatly enjoying) a used CD that I picked up for $1.99 yesterday -- Arthur Grumiaux with Galliera/New Philharmonia -- after realizing that Grumiaux was one "big-name" violinists that I had never heard in this work. 

So, what are your personal favorites, and why?

Favorite I do not know. But I own a Grumiaux and am happy with it.

Rummaging through the collection, and decided to do a study in contrasts for tonight's listening:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/418E3WR546L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61vNATtQvcL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

My favorite version:   Grumiaux with van Beinum and the Concertgebow.

Then, Menuhin with Furtwängler and David Oistrakh with Cluytens.

Quote from: mn dave on January 07, 2010, 06:39:43 AM
Favorite I do not know. But I own a Grumiaux and am happy with it.

I don't own ANY recording of this work! Josef Suk/Boult is what I have in my hands now (borrowed it from a friend). The Violin Concerto is Beethoven I can stand but I can't imagine owning more than one good performance of it. It's not the only music on Earth... ...there is another Violin Concerto Op. 61 I like much more...  :D

Quote from: 71 dB on January 09, 2010, 01:47:26 AM
I don't own ANY recording of this work! Josef Suk/Boult is what I have in my hands now (borrowed it from a friend). The Violin Concerto is Beethoven I can stand but I can't imagine owning more than one good performance of it. It's not the only music on Earth... ...there is another Violin Concerto Op. 61 I like much more...  :D

At least you have a good, solid version. Elgarian would be an appropriate epithet  ;)

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on January 07, 2010, 03:43:41 AM
Having become satiated, even bored, by the concerto after thirty-five years listening to various performances, the Zehetmair/Brüggen CD was the blast of proverbial fresh air that renewed my enthusiasm for the work. Despite the merits of the classic performances mentioned in this thread, Zehetmair is now my desert island pick.

Sarge

HECK^^yeah!!!

I have to restrain myself from simply declaring that recording to be the best.  Even though it is.  Though I won't say so... Even though it is.   Which I won't say... Despite the statement's apparent and irrefutable truth... Which shall not be spoken of by me... ::) ;D

OK...so based on Sarge's comments and Sorin's reactions, Zehetmair is definitely going on my must-hear list.

Dirk

QuoteChristian Ferras/Karajan/Berlin - beautiful tone from Ferras, a real delectable, lump in throat version.

Yehudi Menuhin/Constantin Silvestri/VPO - this is my most enjoyable Menuhin, Silvestri and the VPO do exactly what the 'accompanyment' should do, powerful playing but not overwhelming.  Menuhin is sheer class in this recording, I would go so far as to say his finest recording, and one of my top tens.  Great ride, relentlessly beautiful.

Absolutely 100% agreed. These two are my favorites also, for now at least.

The tone and playing is beautiful on the Ferras/Karajan, especially in the 2nd movement. A truly underrated recording!

I also agree on the Menuhin/Silvestri. This was his finest reading, better than the famous recording with Furtwangler. It was also nice that they coupled it with the two Beethoven Violin Romances, rather than the more common Mendelssohn/Brahms Concertos, etc.

And all for only $6.99 on a budget EMI CD! ;D 

Quote from: dirkronk on January 09, 2010, 10:15:39 AM
OK...so based on Sarge's comments and Sorin's reactions, Zehetmair is definitely going on my must-hear list.

Dirk

Just a reminder that this recording has recently been reissued at budget price:

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0028948024315.jpg)

Q

Quote from: dirkronk on January 06, 2010, 08:34:17 PM

Highlights include:

- Stern/Bernstein (too powerful and intense not to be high on the list, but let down by recording a bit)

Dirk

I saw a great re-mastering in Singapore (produced by HK re-mastering engineers) - I had a listen - sounds good but they wanted SGD26 - which is a bit steep for 45 mins CD. They also had same series for Stern's Tchaikovsky & Mendelssohn VC.

Quote from: Barak on January 06, 2010, 08:50:10 PM

Another old-timer with many sterling qualities: Bronislaw Gimpel (w. Heinrich Hollreiser). I don't know if that's available right now, but it circulate around. Recommended if you stumble upon it.

I friend sent me this MP3. I tidied it up and have the cover tidied up as well using Photoshop.

In terms of historical recordings, I'm surprised no one mentioned the Bronislaw Hubermann / George Szell / Wiener Philharmoniker version of 1934, which is an absolute gem, the most intense and idiosyncratic Beethoven VC I've ever heard. As a close second comes the 1939 Max Straub / Karl Boehm / Staatskapelle Dresden recording.

There's a lot in terms of sonic enjoyment that doesn't come through with very old recordings. The all-important bassoon line for example doesn't sound with the succulence and tonal relish that is so rewarding when it's recorded properly. Specialists and true aficionados will factor in what's missing, but IMO they're not for the general public.

So, as you mention, it's "in terms of historical recordings" that these can best be appreciated.

Quote from: Florestan on January 10, 2010, 05:27:44 AM
In terms of historical recordings, I'm surprised no one mentioned the Bronislaw Hubermann / George Szell / Wiener Philharmoniker version of 1934, which is an absolute gem, the most intense and idiosyncratic Beethoven VC I've ever heard. As a close second comes the 1939 Max Straub / Karl Boehm / Staatskapelle Dresden recording.

Oop?

Quote from: Florestan on January 10, 2010, 05:27:44 AM
In terms of historical recordings, I'm surprised no one mentioned the Bronislaw Hubermann / George Szell / Wiener Philharmoniker version of 1934, which is an absolute gem, the most intense and idiosyncratic Beethoven VC I've ever heard.

Actually, that was in my post, and for good reason, though admittedly I offered no elaboration of why. Your advocacy and evaluation, however, surely makes up for my oversight.
:D

Dirk

Quote from: dirkronk on January 10, 2010, 12:37:48 PM
Actually, that was in my post

Oops, I missed that line, sorry! : )

I don't have too many versions of this work (like around 10 at last count) but my favorite is this one:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51rS3OBcRiL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

for it's warmth and straightforwardness.

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on January 07, 2010, 03:43:41 AM
Having become satiated, even bored, by the concerto after thirty-five years listening to various performances, the Zehetmair/Brüggen CD was the blast of proverbial fresh air that renewed my enthusiasm for the work. Despite the merits of the classic performances mentioned in this thread, Zehetmair is now my desert island pick.

Sarge

Ditto.

Q,
You are showing that on Decca. Mine is on Philips... of course, they are all the same company, I suppose, but I would have thought... nah, why apply thought to record companies?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41J0A6XR0CL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)


8)

Quote from: Florestan on January 10, 2010, 05:27:44 AM
the Bronislaw Hubermann / George Szell / Wiener Philharmoniker version of 1934, which is an absolute gem, the most intense and idiosyncratic Beethoven VC I've ever heard.

QFT

I recently got my hands on Arabella Steinbacher's recording, on which an IRR reviewer lavished much praise.

So I'm withholding my favourites until I hear it, just in case. ;)

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on January 11, 2010, 08:17:00 AM
Ditto.

Q,
You are showing that on Decca. Mine is on Philips... of course, they are all the same company, I suppose, but I would have thought... nah, why apply thought to record companies?

The right of Universal to use the name Philips (of the Dutch electronics company) has expired, probably the reason they used Decca. :)

Q 

Quote from: Que on January 11, 2010, 08:57:45 AM
The right of Universal to use the name Philips (of the Dutch electronics company) has expired, probably the reason they used Decca. :)

Q

Ah.  ::)   Complicated business. In any case, get one version or the other, it's a great recording. :)

8)

Heifetz/Munch on Living Stereo.

Quote from: dirkronk on January 06, 2010, 08:34:17 PM
Heifetz/Munch (RCA)

I gotta put in a fourth vote for this one. I didn't even like the work until I heard this version.

Quote from: George on January 11, 2010, 01:53:35 PM
I gotta put in a fourth vote for this one. I didn't even like the work until I heard this version.

Yup. I don't care for modern performance practice, and even less for "historical" recordings, but I like this disk a lot. Go figure... :-\

8)

----------------
Listening to:
Derek Adlam - Clavichord - Hob 16 29 Sonata in F for Keyboard 1st mvmt - Moderato

"Golden Age" -- Heifetz/Munch
Contemporary big band -- Hahn/Zinman
HIP -- Zehetmair/Brüggen

The one I listen to most often:  Mullova/Gardiner

Vera Beths, Weil and Tafelmusik was my first hip recording and I'm still fond of it.   I think it's really a gem of a performance.

I also love the young AS Mutter's recording with Karajan and the BP. 

And more recently, I like Christian Tetzlaff's recording with Zinman and the Zurich TO.

Quote from: DavidRoss on January 12, 2010, 07:43:57 AM
The one I listen to most often:  Mullova/Gardiner

Me, too, David. Great minds and all that... 8)

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on January 12, 2010, 08:13:12 PM
Me, too, David. Great minds and all that... 8)

;D  And not for the first time, eh, Don?

It's funny. I thought that I really didn't have too many recordings of this work so I would just read this conversation and learn from it (still am doing), but these 2 consecutive posts made me think maybe I was wrong:

Quote from: DavidRoss on January 12, 2010, 07:43:57 AM
"Golden Age" -- Heifetz/Munch
Contemporary big band -- Hahn/Zinman
HIP -- Zehetmair/Brüggen

The one I listen to most often:  Mullova/Gardiner

Quote from: Bunny on January 12, 2010, 04:22:27 PM
Vera Beths, Weil and Tafelmusik was my first hip recording and I'm still fond of it.   I think it's really a gem of a performance.

I also love the young AS Mutter's recording with Karajan and the BP. 

And more recently, I like Christian Tetzlaff's recording with Zinman and the Zurich TO.

As it turns out, I have, and appreciate, every one of those recordings except for the Mullova/Gardiner. This is one piece of music that stands up to virtually anyone and comes out a winner. Of course, I stick by my rec of Zehetmair/Brüggen, but the variety expressed here just shows that it is hard to be a loser with this piece. :)

8)

Quote from: DavidRoss on January 13, 2010, 10:16:41 AM
;D  And not for the first time, eh, Don?

Nope. ;D

What good taste you have, what good choices you make, Sgt!  ;D

My favorite happens to be:

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2006/01/dip-your-ears-no-50_25.html

Dip Your Ears, No. 50 (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2006/01/dip-your-ears-no-50_25.html)

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000023ZEM.01.MZZZZZZZ.jpg) L. van Beethoven, Violin Concerto, Romances, Zehetmair / Brüggen / O.d.18th Ct. Philips (original release) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000023ZEM/goodmusicguide-20)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Ax%2BKvIC8L._SL500_AA240_.jpg) L. van Beethoven, Violin Concerto, Romances, Zehetmair / Brüggen / O.d.18th Ct. Decca (re-release, German link) (http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B002N1RM5K/nectarandambr-21)

It hasn't made it to the US as an 'indigenous' re-issue yet, though.

French link. (http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B002N1RM5K?ie=UTF8&tag=nectarandambrfr-21&linkCode=as2&camp=1642&creative=19458&creativeASIN=B002N1RM5K)
UK link (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002N1RM5K?ie=UTF8&tag=goodmusicguideuk-21&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=B002N1RM5K)
US link (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002N1RM5K?ie=UTF8&tag=goodmusicguide-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B002N1RM5K)

Two recordings that sort of approximate Zehetmair/Brueggen:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/6198DAY4SGL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) L. van Beethoven, Violin Concerto, Romances, Tetzlaff / Zinman / Tonhalle Arte Nova (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000FII25M/goodmusicguide-20)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41WGM6N1PZL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) L. van Beethoven, F. Mendelssohn-B. Violin Concertos, Mullova / Gardiner / O.R&R Philips (oop but available) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00008NR79/goodmusicguide-20)

That said, I also like Milstein (http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00005MIZE?ie=UTF8&tag=goodmusicguide-21&linkCode=as2&camp=1638&creative=19454&creativeASIN=B00005MIZE), Steinbacher (http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B002A9ZNHO?ie=UTF8&tag=goodmusicguide-21&linkCode=as2&camp=1638&creative=19454&creativeASIN=B002A9ZNHO), and probably several others if and when forced to remember. The best live performance I've ever heard--by far--was with Julia Fischer (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2006/05/setting-perfect-tone-julia-fischer.html).

I must be slipping -- a quick check has shown that I also have the Mullova/Gardiner recording, and it's even on my ipod. I wonder why I didn't recall it?  ::)

Quote from: Bunny on January 16, 2010, 07:10:25 PM
I must be slipping -- a quick check has shown that I also have the Mullova/Gardiner recording, and it's even on my ipod. I wonder why I didn't recall it?  ::)

Probably because it didn't make an impact!  I used to listen to that myself, but after I got the Bruggen/Zehetmair recording it hasn't seen any playtime.  Here's a nice sample of their work with the third movement...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILHu4PiXYY0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILHu4PiXYY0)

Quote from: Sorin Eushayson on January 17, 2010, 06:11:10 AM
Probably because it didn't make an impact!  I used to listen to that myself, but after I got the Bruggen/Zehetmair recording it hasn't seen any playtime. 

There's plenty of "impact" from Mullova/Gardiner to go around. Just as there's plenty of impact from Herreweghe's Bach...

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on January 17, 2010, 06:18:00 AM
There's plenty of "impact" from Mullova/Gardiner to go around. Just as there's plenty of impact from Herreweghe's Bach...

Really, the Gardiner recording totes the same line that most other performances of this piece do, i.e. they treat it like a gentle pastoral instead of the rousing concerto that it is.  In fact, I'd say that's how Herreweghe's Bach comes across, at least with regards to his B Minor Mass, though that's another topic.

*AHEM*  If you wanna continue the discussion, though, we've got a whole topic on this with loads of examples over at CMM where we'd be more than happy to press onward. ;)

Quote from: Sorin Eushayson on January 17, 2010, 06:52:06 AM
Really, the Gardiner recording totes the same line that most other performances of this piece do, i.e. they treat it like a gentle pastoral instead of the rousing concerto that it is.  In fact, I'd say that's how Herreweghe's Bach comes across, at least with regards to his B Minor Mass, though that's another topic.

You seem to be forgetting the most important aspect of this piece: the violinist. Mullova isn't and has never been a cookie-cutter musician. To even suggest she is means you've absolutely no idea what she's all about.

Quote*AHEM*  If you wanna continue the discussion, though, we've got a whole topic on this with loads of examples over at CMM where we'd be more than happy to press onward. ;)

Not my bag...

Quote from: Sorin Eushayson on January 17, 2010, 06:11:10 AM
Probably because it didn't make an impact!  I used to listen to that myself, but after I got the Bruggen/Zehetmair recording it hasn't seen any playtime.  Here's a nice sample of their work with the third movement...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILHu4PiXYY0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILHu4PiXYY0)

There are good things in it, but I find it hard to stomach the mix of explosive orchestral outbursts and prissy dynamic and rythmic adjustments. None of that have their source in the score (otherwise it would always have been played thus). Honestly, I found the experience disagreeable.

Quote from: Sorin Eushayson on January 17, 2010, 06:11:10 AM
Probably because it didn't make an impact!  I used to listen to that myself, but after I got the Bruggen/Zehetmair recording it hasn't seen any playtime.  Here's a nice sample of their work with the third movement...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILHu4PiXYY0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILHu4PiXYY0)

I've had the Zehetmair/Bruggen for years as well.  That one is not on my ipod because I wasn't using it as a comparison to the Tetzlaff which I think is probably my favorite modern instrument version.  I wanted to compare the cadenzas as the Tetzlaff uses a cadenza adapted from Beethoven's reworking of the concerto for piano.  The Mullova, I believe, had a new cadenza (by Ottavio Dantone?).  I have to admit that the Bruggen is one of the best period instrument versions, but I still have a soft spot for the Vera Beths, which was the first HIP recording of the concerto I heard.

New school, I'd say Mullova or Zehetmair are my faves, while for old school you just can't beat the patrician beauty of Schneiderhan & Jochum.  Milstein is also a favorite, a bit more fire and intensity than Schneiderhan, but I'm not entirely sure that's what this work needs.

According to my tastes, a HIP version would have to retain the nobility and sweetness I appreciate in this work. Tetzlaff and Gielen give a mercurial yet probing account. One of my favourites, and the one I think is closest to hipness, without the distorted orchestra.

Barak - you mean Tetzlaff & Zinman (not Gielen) on Arte Nova.

No, I mean Tetzlaff and Gielen (SWF Baden-Baden) on Classic Masters. It predates the Tetzlaff-Zinman account, having been recorded in 1988.

Still available on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Violin-Concerto-Piano/dp/B000002X8W). One of these cheapo productions that are licensed from one label  to the other. Mine has a totally different cove.

Re. Zehetmair/Brüggen:

Quote from: Barak on January 18, 2010, 02:19:30 PM
There are good things in it, but I find it hard to stomach the mix of explosive orchestral outbursts and prissy dynamic and rythmic adjustments. None of that have their source in the score (otherwise it would always have been played thus). Honestly, I found the experience disagreeable.

Huh?  Is there something very wrong with your playback gear?  To my ears, the rhythmic and dynamic FLEXIBILITY of Brüggen's Beethoven is not only very appealing, but is more consistent with my sense of Beethoven's own conducting style than almost any other, epitomizing historically INFORMED performance practice, and with the added delightful sonorities of period instruments.

With 3000+ posts I presume that you're an old hand at GMG who's taken on a new handle.  What was your old user name? 

Quote from: DavidRoss on January 20, 2010, 08:21:42 AM
With 3000+ posts I presume that you're an old hand at GMG who's taken on a new handle.  What was your old user name?

He was Lilas (André).

Quote from: Barak on January 20, 2010, 05:13:18 AM
No, I mean Tetzlaff and Gielen (SWF Baden-Baden) on Classic Masters. It predates the Tetzlaff-Zinman account, having been recorded in 1988.

Still available on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Violin-Concerto-Piano/dp/B000002X8W). One of these cheapo productions that are licensed from one label  to the other. Mine has a totally different cove.

Oh I see Barak. Better than the Zinman version?

I don't know, I didn't hear the later version. All I know (from the Zinman reviews) is that it seems a bit rougher orchestrally. This clocks in at 39-40 minutes (22.5, 7.5, 9). How about the Arte Nova?

I realise I forgot to mention one of my favourite versions, Aaron Rosand and the Monte-Carlo Philharmonic cond. by Derrick Inouye.  An unlikely collaboration. The MC orchestra is an old hand at recordings (french repertoire on EMI and DG in the 50s, 60s and 70s), but it's never been identified with the music of Beethoven. They are quite good anyway. But this is Rosand's - or, I should say Beethoven's - show. The interpretation is mercurial, poetic, virile and tender at once. Like Tetzlaff, he knocks the first movement in some 21 minutes, some 3-5 minutes shorter than Mutter, Szeryng, Perlman or Grumiaux. How much of that is due to the cadenza I don't know (he plays one by Heifetz), but that can't be more than a few seconds. Paired with an equally winning Brahms VC on a single budget Vox disc.

IMO Rosand, Tetzlaff and Heifetz prove that this concerto can beplayed in a way that gives the lie to the 20th century 'dérive' (drifting) toward 'Yellow River' and 'Butterfly Lovers' modern aesthetic. It should be noted that they are gamely followed by their respective conductors (Inouye, Gielen and Munch), none of whom could be accused of gilding the lily.

I'm writing this in defense of the 'modern' style of playing. In many HIP interpretations the focus of attention shifts from the soloist to the conductor. A totally non-HIP concept if ever there was one: those were the days when this concerto was premiered by the soloist showing off by playing his instrument upside down, and the Berlioz Requiem performed by a conductor taking his tobacco whiff just as he was to launch the Tuba mirum!  Lest it seem sacrilegious, I think music making in the 20th century (esp. past 1960-70) has often been  more faithful to Beethoven's intentions than what was the case 200 years earlier! Save for the ocasional vagrant interpreters such as Mutter or Perlman. Even those have their aesthetic merits, however misguided.

Considering the above, I think an artist like as Schneiderhan has been both a precursor to the new HIP and a true heir to 'authentic' HIP styles...

I just realised I have two more potentially interesting versions to listen to, both downloads from live concerts:

- Tetzlaff with the Met Orchestra, James Levine  cond. Timings seem to imply that Levine's influence has been important here (3 minutes longer than with Gielen). From a 16.01.2007 concert.

- Kremer with the NDR Orchestra, Hamburg, Klaus Tensstedt cond. From a 11.12.1980 Hamburg concert. Kremer pays the Schnittke cadenzas.

I can't seem to find a thread on this subject, so I'm using it to point at a new recording I have acquired. Hitherto I have been rather ambivalent about this work: either 1) the orchestra is interesting but the violin playing not so very characterful, or 2) vice versa - that is, from my point of view; I also dislike a) recordings which exude a kind of magisterial pseudo-pastoralism b) those which whizz adroitly through the work with great technical address but not much emotion. So I must reluctantly consign Menuhin/Furtwängler (1) and Huberman/Szell (2b) to the "take-it or leave-it category", look fairly favourably on Schneiderhan/Jochum without being too enthusiastic; only one recording has been my touchstone, even though the orchestra is rather undistinguished, that is the 1932 Szigeti with Walter and the British Symphony Orchestra. I will come now to my rave about Haendel/Ancerl, which is a live 1957 recording just issued by Supraphon with the Sibelius concerto (exciting but unfortunately not so well balanced IMO). I had the sense of undergoing a dangerously delightful journey, the music sounded much more modern, as biting as the Stravinsky concerto but less motoric, the drum tap motive taking on an almost minatory quality, with the result that the glorious humanity of the solo voice of the fiddle is tried and ripened in the context of an orchestral weave which never, as in my experience it very often does, just sings on in a rather plonking way, erecting an edifice of sound at the expense of inner complexity.
Some time ago I acquired a decent Beethoven VC with an excellent Britten by Janine Jansen (which latter competes with the Haendel in my affections, whereas the Zimmermann is brilliant but rather uninvolved to my ears) - kind of perky and bright but not very revealing. Perhaps I have just missed a number of great recordings - but I must say in advance that Perlman, for instance, is not my cup of tea. There seem to me to be so many great Brahms recordings and rather few of the Beethoven...What do you think?

Well, I will say right out that I hate old recordings, so we wouldn't ever reach any sort of happy agreement on that. I'm sure some of them have their merits, but I like my players to be still alive and kicking. :D  And that's just what Patricia Kopatchinskaja is doing on her recording, available here (http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Complete-Works-Violin-Orchestra/dp/B0029XIWC4/ref=sr_1_29?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1279642152&sr=8-29) with the Champs Elysees Orchestra / Herreweghe.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51a6sGitnFL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

This gal can fiddle, no question, she has the technique to handle pretty much anything that comes along. But in addition, the orchestra and Herreweghe are very good Beethoven interpreters (they do one of my more favorite 9ths). I will take this version over the 8-10 others I have, hands down. I would even recommend it to others! :o

8)

Gurn, you're dangerous!

I'm also a bit ambivalent about LvB's Violin Concerto, but after years of looking I came upon one that has served me well for years now.  That is the Ferras / Karajan recording.  It's mostly a big ole', beautiful sonic blob, with Karajan creating a wall of sound, though one with muscle at times, and Ferras fiddles most attractively.  I have it on both CD and LP, and confess a preference for the LP.  The sound is lusher yet, and Ferras' tone sheds the hints of steel on CD.  (That probably means that the CD is more "accurate," but the LP sounds better.)


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41PVJ9WBA4L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on July 20, 2010, 08:19:06 AM
Patricia Kopatchinskaja ... I will take this version over the 8-10 others I have, hands down. I would even recommend it to others! :o

Forgoing non-HIPsters (knowing your proclivities, similar to mine), you prefer to both Mullova/Gardiner and Zehetmair/Brüggen? 

Found this clip on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKOUIEpa6cA

and this explanation by Ms Kopatchinskaja: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7zl5lYAlb8&feature=related

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on July 20, 2010, 08:19:06 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51a6sGitnFL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

This gal can fiddle, no question, she has the technique to handle pretty much anything that comes along. But in addition, the orchestra and Herreweghe are very good Beethoven interpreters (they do one of my more favorite 9ths). I will take this version over the 8-10 others I have, hands down. I would even recommend it to others! :o

8)

You have switched allegiances! :o :D

Q

Frankly I am surprised so many people have expressed apathy about this work - I would put it on the "essential listening-list" of anyone who is interested in classical music at all.  (Ditto for FIDELIO - another Beethoven work which is surprisingly neglected).

I share Gurn's distate for the crackling and creaky old recordings of yore - what interests me is what people are doing NOW.  I'll go off to sample Kopatchinskaya :)

Well, there are even great enthusiasts for Beethoven who find themselves ambivalent about the Opus 61.

Quote from: False_Dmitry on July 20, 2010, 09:46:44 AM
I share Gurn's distate for the crackling and creaky old recordings of yore - what interests me is what people are doing NOW.  I'll go off to sample Kopatchinskaya :)

I think similarly about old recordings, but principally for technical reasons (sound quality), not for artistic reasons.

Quote"Behind every man now alive stand thirty ghosts, for that is the ratio by which the dead outnumber the living".
— Arthur C. Clarke (2001: A Space Odyssey)

:)

Quote from: Que on July 20, 2010, 09:30:56 AM
You have switched allegiances! :o :D

Q

No, I am still very partial to Zehetmair/Brüggen, but this is a really cool version that approaches from a different angle. I would never dump one for the other, I like having both. :)

8)

Quote from: Antoine Marchand on July 20, 2010, 10:10:14 AM
I think similarly about old recordings, but principally for technical reasons (sound quality), not for artistic reasons.

:)

Both, Antoine, both. Plus it just feels more right to me to listen to and get into what's happening now, not what was happening before I was born (and man, I'm old too! :o :o ).  :D

8)

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on July 20, 2010, 10:26:28 AM
No, I am still very partial to Zehetmair/Brüggen, but this is a really cool version that approaches from a different angle. I would never dump one for the other, I like having both. :)

8)

Not a matter of switching allegiances, but of breadth of allegiance, eh, Gurn?

I have many recordings of this work and admire quite a few of them. Perhaps my absolute favorites are Grumiaux (with van Beinum or Davis), Zehetmair/Brüggen, and one that has not been mentioned so far, I think: Camilla Wicks and Bruno Walter on Music and Arts.

Quote from: DavidRoss on July 20, 2010, 09:07:12 AM
Forgoing non-HIPsters (knowing your proclivities, similar to mine), you prefer to both Mullova/Gardiner and Zehetmair/Brüggen? 

Found this clip on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKOUIEpa6cA

and this explanation by Ms Kopatchinskaja: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7zl5lYAlb8&feature=related

Don't have Mullova/Gardiner, unfortunately. I do like her fiddling, and of course, am a big Gardiner fan. Nonetheless, I can only express satisfaction with Kopatchinskaja/Herreweghe. That link where she talks about the alternative lines that are never played was very interesting. Thanks!

8)

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 20, 2010, 10:30:21 AM
Not a matter of switching allegiances, but of breadth of allegiance, eh, Gurn?

Quite so, Karl. It isn't as though they are playing it identically, to where one has to make a choice between 2 difficult to discern varieties. They are quite different, and that can only be a good thing. :)

8)

I think the only recording we have of the Opus 61 is Milstein/Pittsburgh/Steinberg.  I like it, and haven't felt the need to fetch others in. (Gurn's endorsement of the Kopatchinskaya/Herreweghe, though . . . .)

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on July 20, 2010, 10:28:38 AM
Both, Antoine, both. Plus it just feels more right to me to listen to and get into what's happening now, not what was happening before I was born (and man, I'm old too! :o :o ).  :D

Nihil novum sub sole, dear Gurn. Plato, Cicero and Bach are our exact contemporaries. I am sure you feel that way when you listen to Haydn or Mozart.  :)

It might come down to what else is on the CD. 

I have seven:
Tetzlaff/Zinman
Pine/Serebrier
Jansen/Jarvi
Capucon/Nezet-Seguin
Mullova/Gardiner
Perlman/Guilini
Menuhin/Furtwangler

I don't have a particular favorite among them, although I'm inclined to rate the Mullova and the Pine ahead of the others.  but I like the Tetzlaff/Zinman because it's the only one of the seven that includes the Violin Romances.  The Pine/Serebrier is coupled with the world premiere recording of the Clement violin concerto (Clement being the soloists in the Beethoven concerto's first performance), and can be safely bought for that alone.  As already mentioned, Jansen uses the Britten concerto as the coupling.  Capucon uses the Korngold concerto.  The other three are coupled with the Mendelssohn. (In the case of Perlman, this coupling only applies to the latest reissue format.  The GROC reissue includes only the Beethoven, with no coupling.)  I think Mullova is better than Menuhin and Perlman in the Mendelssohn,  so perhaps my suggestion would be to go both with her and  with Pine.

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on July 20, 2010, 10:26:28 AM
No, I am still very partial to Zehetmair/Brüggen, but this is a really cool version that approaches from a different angle. I would never dump one for the other, I like having both. :)

8)

I feel the same way. As a principle evangelist of the Zehetmair/Brüggen recording, I find this one to be absolutely recommendable a swell. There's not reason to be Beethoven-Violin-Concerto-monogamous... while at the same time having a favirote LvB-VC-'wife'.

Well, I got that wrong - but the search function didn't work for me. I think I'm going to try the Zehetmair/Brüggen next, although it'll have to be very good to knock Haendel/Ancerl off their pedestal.

Quote from: kishnevi on July 20, 2010, 08:23:07 PM
The other three are coupled with the Mendelssohn.  I think Mullova is better than Menuhin and Perlman in the Mendelssohn,  so perhaps my suggestion would be to go both with her and  with Pine.

FWIW, the "classic" LvB/Mendy VC coupling is Heifetz/Munch, one I've not heard in quite some time and which your post reminded me is overdue!

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 20, 2010, 09:51:02 AM
Well, there are even great enthusiasts for Beethoven who find themselves ambivalent about the Opus 61.

True, but certainly not in my case.  It is my favorite Beethoven concerto, by a country mile.  Always has been one of my favorite works of his.

Quote from: Brahmsian on July 21, 2010, 08:48:56 AM
True, but certainly not in my case.  It is my favorite Beethoven concerto, by a country mile.  Always has been one of my favorite works of his.

Me, too, to be sure.

Quote from: kishnevi on July 20, 2010, 08:23:07 PM

I have seven:
Tetzlaff/Zinman
Pine/Serebrier
Jansen/Jarvi
Capucon/Nezet-Seguin
Mullova/Gardiner
Perlman/Guilini
Menuhin/Furtwangler

One further point of differentiation of which I was reminded when I played the Tetzlaff earlier this evening: the cadenzas.

The (apparently) gold standard cadenzas for the VC were written by Kriesler.  Menuhin  and Perlman used them, and so (among the recent crop) Jansen.  Looking through the booklet for the Capucon, I don't see any reference to the source of his cadenzas, and it's been a while since I listened to his performance, so I'm not sure if he also uses the Kriesler cadenzas.

The other three do not.  Pine wrote her own cadenzas;  Mullova used cadenzas written by Ottavio Dantone, and Tetzlaff transcribed for violin the cadenzas Beethoven wrote when he transcribed the VC as a piano concerto.

Side question: has anyone hear ever heard that piano version?

Quote from: kishnevi on July 21, 2010, 05:13:04 PM

Side question: has anyone hear ever heard that piano version?

Yes, and it's actually very nice! :)

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/3760014191220.jpg)

Excerpts form "All Music Guide":

From the time of its premiere on December 23, 1806, Beethoven's Violin Concerto in D, Op. 61, was popular and rightly hailed as a masterpiece. Composer Muzio Clementi urged Beethoven to fashion a version for piano and orchestra. He was reluctant at first, but apparently needed little convincing, since he produced the new piano concerto within a year of the appearance of the violin original.

Beethoven retained the exact orchestration, resisting any temptation to make it fuller, aware the piano's tone was more voluminous than the relatively puny one of the violin and thus able to be heard amid fatter orchestral sonorities. He knew he had a masterpiece and was content to tamper with it as little as possible. He did, of course, have to augment the soloist's role, primarily making use of the lower and middle registers of the keyboard for additional harmonic support (see below). He also supplied cadenzas, which are completely absent from the Violin Concerto, those of Joachim, Kreisler and David typically used in performance.
[...]

As suggested above, there are many examples where the piano part enlarges upon the violin's role in the original version of the concerto. In the first movement, for instance, there is a quiet passage in G minor in which the piano's left hand must be given something to do or else leave the textures barren. Thus, it responds to the horns and bassoons with repeating quarter-note chords. In the finale, the second theme's first appearance draws an added scale from the left hand in the passage where the orchestra's ascending music is answered by the soloist's descending phrases. There are also numerous examples where the left hand mirrors orchestral sonorities, while the right hand carries the main material.

The work was first performed in 1807 and published in Vienna the following year. A typical performance of this concerto lasts between forty and forty-five minutes.

Q

Quote from: kishnevi on July 21, 2010, 05:13:04 PM
and Tetzlaff transcribed for violin the cadenzas Beethoven wrote when he transcribed the VC as a piano concerto.

Side question: has anyone hear ever heard that piano version?

The cadenza that Tetzlaff uses is usually called the Beethoven-Schneiderhahn-Cadenza (or 61-A), because it was Schneiderhahn who first adopted it from Beethoven's own op.61a.
It's my favorite, actually... I love the inclusion of the timpani theme ...and used somewhat frequently; probably a (far, far distant) second to the Kreisler.

Incidentally, Zehetmair/Bruggen also use that cadenza.

FYI: Gidon Kremer I (Phililps) uses the Schnittke cadenzas.

http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=261
Apparently Repin had briefly considered the Beethoven/Schneiderhan cadenza from op.61a – the Piano version of the concerto – but in the end opted for the traditional Kreisler-cadenza for this recording. He did so, too, in his performance with the West German Radio Orchestra under Seymon Bychkov that I was able to catch not too long ago. The cadenza-choice is a missed opportunity to my ears, because the almost-Beethoven version is much, much more than merely "different". It's a fresh air for a concerto we know well – and the timpani-shadow that links to the work's opening a pleasant dramatic touch. In any case, this is hardly a serious quibble. In concert the WDR SO matched his excellence step by step with finely honed, well controlled playing. (http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=261%3Cbr%20/%3EApparently%20Repin%20had%20briefly%20considered%20the%20Beethoven/Schneiderhan%20cadenza%20from%20op.61a%20%E2%80%93%20the%20Piano%20version%20of%20the%20concerto%20%E2%80%93%20but%20in%20the%20end%20opted%20for%20the%20traditional%20Kreisler-cadenza%20for%20this%20recording.%20He%20did%20so,%20too,%20in%20his%20performance%20with%20the%20West%20German%20Radio%20Orchestra%20under%20Seymon%20Bychkov%20that%20I%20was%20able%20to%20catch%20not%20too%20long%20ago.%20The%20cadenza-choice%20is%20a%20missed%20opportunity%20to%20my%20ears,%20because%20the%20almost-Beethoven%20version%20is%20much,%20much%20more%20than%20merely%20%22different%22.%20It's%20a%20fresh%20air%20for%20a%20concerto%20we%20know%20well%20%E2%80%93%20and%20the%20timpani-shadow%20that%20links%20to%20the%20work's%20opening%20a%20pleasant%20dramatic%20touch.%20In%20any%20case,%20this%20is%20hardly%20a%20serious%20quibble.%20In%20concert%20the%20WDR%20SO%20matched%20his%20excellence%20step%20by%20step%20with%20finely%20honed,%20well%20controlled%20playing.)

Tetzlaff had already used this cadenza with Gielen, in a recording not generally known which can be picked up for a song (coupled with Leonskaya's Piano Concerto #2). I find their performance controlled, cleanly played - and a bit dull & lacking in individual character i.e. the Szigeti element is missing. And I would have expected more cutting drive from Gielen. But the cadenza is remarkable.

Quote from: kishnevi on July 21, 2010, 05:13:04 PM
Side question: has anyone hear ever heard that piano version?

Yes, I have several versions in my collection (always a filler or part of a set), and it's deadly dull in the piano incarnation.  Stick to the violin version.

                        (http://www.furtwangler.net/images/furtmenuhin1947b.JPG)   (http://boxset.ru/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/furtwangler_the_complete_rias_recordings.jpg)


Sometimes, when I try to express how some musical interpretations touch me deeply, because I sense a rare mix of emotional expression, warmness and fragility, I may say they are "more humane". This is not to say there aren't other beautiful readings who strike me in a different way.  But sometimes it is also a reaction to many "stylish" and perfect readings, where every right note is there, the technique is faultless, the historical archetypes are faithfully respected, the recorded sound is impressive and yet there is, for me, some mysterious lack of emotional communication or more deep musical insight.  I admit this may be seen by some as a simplistic or snobbish intellectualization, to justify a personal "taste" or some form of cultural "ideology".   But in spite of some political incorrectness, I still believe Music can help us to resound and connect with our own feelings in a deep and individual way. And that's why I always search for those interpreters who help me to connect more intensely or emotionally with the music, who sometimes I may  describe as "more humane" readings. 

This personal reflection about the "humane" character in musical interpretation was prompted by relistening to a famous recording that impresses me since I first discovered it (more than 20 years ago, with an "old" 1987 FonitCetra CD). It is the famous after-war encounter of Yehudi Menuhin, Wilhelm Furtwangler and the Berliner Philharmoniker, playing the Beethoven Violin Concerto - for the American troops stationed in Berlin, on 28 September 1947. I still remember vividly my first impression, particularly of a unique and serene magic in the Larghetto. The gentleness of the violin entrance, the beauty of the phrasing and the meditational restrain of the orchestra, all conjured in a mixture of intensity and stillness, as I rarely encountered in this work ever since.

Today we can listen to this mythic recording in an 'audite' box, with the improved sound coming from the RIAS broadcast tapes. But there are also earlier editions from Tahra, Music & Arts and some minor labels. And for those who want to compare there are the other Menuhin - Furtwangler versions of the Beethoven concerto – the August 1947 studio with the Lucerne Festival Orchestra (Naxos/Testament) and the more widely known 1953 studio with the Philarmonia Orchestra (EMI). These are all wonderful performances, like many other beautiful recordings with other great interpreters. But for me that live 1947 Berlin encounter is always special, perhaps because of the symbolic moment or just because I feel it is somehow "more humane"...

My favorite version is probably the Schneiderhan/Jochum version many already mention. For me, it captures the character of this piece (which is arcadian, at least to my ears) better than all the other version I know. 
One version (probably not my favorite, but up there with the best) no one has yet mentioned is the one by Erich Gruenberg and Jasha Horenstein on Cesky.
It's interesting that, as someone mentioned, there's a comparative lack of great Beethoven, as opposed to Brahms's violin concertos.
Beethoven's violin concerto, while not as perfect a  creation as the Brahms (or, in my opinion, as the Mendelssohn), is rightly considered the pinnacle of the violing concerto repertoire because it's so difficult expressively (while comparatively easy technically). It reminds of S.Richter's words who considered Mozart the most difficult of all composers. one must keep an ideal "classical" balance between attention to detail and view on the whole, involvement and detachment, expressiveness and serenity...a heavy handed accentuation and you've spoiled it all.

 There is a recording of this concerto which seems to me to be of such iconic stature, such creative energy, such profound poetry, such intensely engaged cooperative music making, that it stands sui generis and hors concours.

I'm talking about Szell/Huberman/VPO

Quote from: mjwal on July 22, 2010, 02:03:59 AM
Tetzlaff had already used this cadenza with Gielen, in a recording not generally known which can be picked up for a song (coupled with Leonskaya's Piano Concerto #2). I find their performance controlled, cleanly played - and a bit dull & lacking in individual character i.e. the Szigeti element is missing. And I would have expected more cutting drive from Gielen. But the cadenza is remarkable.

Yes, but the recording is NOT good at all. Tetzlaff's second go is MUCH, MUCH better.

Quote from: Mandryka on June 14, 2011, 07:06:15 AM
There is a recording of this concerto which seems to me to be of such iconic stature, such creative energy, such profound poetry, such intensely engaged cooperative music making, that it stands sui generis and hors concours.

I'm talking about Szell/Huberman/VPO

Seconded.

Here's the Szell/Huberman, just in case anyone's curious. It's not on youtube

http://www.mediafire.com/?30n4505bdi0s1

It's one of those rare instances of a concerto recording with two creative musicians expressing themselves freely , and yet they both seem to fit each other like a glove. Furtwangler/Fischer in Brahms PC2 has the same sort of feeling.

Quote from: Mandryka on June 14, 2011, 09:43:43 AM
It's one of those rare instances of a concerto recording with two creative musicians expressing themselves freely , and yet they both seem to fit each other like a glove. Furtwangler/Fischer in Brahms PC2 has the same sort of feeling.

Well, I don't know, Mandryka...isn't what you're describing just a weeee bit more common that all that? :)

The way I see it collaboration is the name of the game in the concerto arena and all participants better know their roles or the whole shebang sinks. I have any number of concerto recordings where it's as if the telepathy were flowing freely between every musician and collectively the whole production, err...sings, if you will.

If it what you're describing were "rare" I have my doubts many performers would even bother showing up! ;D 

Well, they don't necessarily know how it's going to turn out at the concert/recording sessions. Great performances are unpredictable - and rare, in my experience - which is limited, of course. And with concertos you might get a soloist on fire and a dull accompaniment - bad recordings can also dampen the effect. Szigeti is wonderful in his first recording - but the British orchestra under Walter sounds dull, for whatever reason.

Quote from: Leon on June 17, 2011, 08:18:30 AM
I too consider this a great recording, but rarely admit as much, since I also rarely wish to get into a discussion about Gould.

;)

Which is exactly why I removed the post -- but you got in there before I did the deed.

Gould brings out the worst in people.

Thomas Zehetmair/ Ensemble Modern-Ernest Bour

'live' Konzertmitschnitt, Oct. 26, 1987
Kolner Philharmonie, im Rahmen der Weltmusiktage 1987

I got this as a 'pendant' to a Xenakis piece :o!! It's not a piece I have ever 'listened' to,... and so, when I went to, the opening drum rolls caught me off guard, and I think it was the performance. Overall, I have no way to judge the proceedings, but my initial 'spider sense' questioned my ultimate pleasure as the sound coming from the speaker hit my ears (not necessarily a recording issue, but, was... what was I, or wasn't I hearing? I don't know). Was I not impressed by Zehetmair, someone I've been impressed with (though I maaay dotingly get Zehetmair and Tetzlaff confused sometimes)?

Does anyone know this, and could comment?

Has anyone the experience to give me comparative recommendations of Szeryng's recordings of the violin concerto?  I'm aware of Haitink, Thibaud and Isserstedt but there may well be more.  Do any of these stand out?

Quote from: Reverend Bong on October 15, 2012, 06:36:05 AM
Has anyone the experience to give me comparative recommendations of Szeryng's recordings of the violin concerto?  I'm aware of Haitink, Thibaud and Isserstedt but there may well be more.  Do any of these stand out?

I think Szeryng at best when he plays Bach, Brahms. Despite his impeccable technique, sound and musical taste, he suffers from the worst problem of soloist: faceless interpretation. All of his account is same, good but hardly memorable, especially when his accompalish conductors are also faceless like Haitink and Isserstedt. The one with Thibaud is more interesting despite dated sound because Thibaud's accompany  has some individual, sensitive and colorful touch (though imprecise)  and Szeryng is young and plays with more fire

Quote from: Mandryka on June 14, 2011, 09:43:43 AM
Here's the Szell/Huberman, just in case anyone's curious. It's not on youtube

http://www.mediafire.com/?30n4505bdi0s1

I somehow missed this last year. Downloading it now. Thank you  8)


Sarge

Quote from: trung224 on October 15, 2012, 07:23:56 AM
    I think Szeryng at best when he plays Bach, Brahms. Despite his impeccable technique, sound and musical taste, he suffers from the worst problem of soloist: faceless interpretation. All of his account is same, good but hardly memorable, especially when his accompalish conductors are also faceless like Haitink and Isserstedt. The one with Thibaud is more interesting despite dated sound because Thibaud's accompany  has some individual, sensitive and colorful touch (though imprecise)  and Szeryng is young and plays with more fire

Very useful reply, thank you for that.  That is precisely what I dislike about many recordings of this concerto and a very helpful comment as a result.  I am keen to add to my collection of recordings that show a real personal understanding of this surprisingly protean work.  Schneiderhan brings out an ineffable serenity, Krebbers a songlike beauty, Hubermann a unique kind of writhing madness.  All these three have a unique insight into the work and can convey it to me, I couldn't agree more with you that 'faceless interpretation' is the worst fault of the soloist.

Quote from: Reverend Bong on October 16, 2012, 03:28:01 AM
Schneiderhan brings out an ineffable serenity, Krebbers a songlike beauty, Hubermann a unique kind of writhing madness.

None of whom I've heard in this; all of whom your prose now encourages me to hear. Thanks again.

I love this work and have recordings by Schneiderhan, Heifetz, Milstein, Kogan, Oistrakh and Suk, but would be perfectly happy if Francescatti/Walter were the only recording I had.

Quote from: Daverz on October 16, 2012, 04:42:25 AM
would be perfectly happy if Francescatti/Walter were the only recording I had.

It's on my mental shopping list.
I'm just sitting down to an obscure one: Erich Röhn, Furtwangler, BPO, live 9th January 1944. The bootleg looking LP is issued by 'I Grandi Interpreti' - never heard of them.  IGI-364.  Gatefold album, second disc is Strauss, interior of gatefold is blank white, no notes, nothing.  On the front it says 'Wilhelm Furtwangler's last concert at the "Philharmonie"'. Anyone know anything about this?

Quote from: Todd on July 22, 2010, 06:52:05 AM

Yes, I have several versions in my collection (always a filler or part of a set), and it's deadly dull in the piano incarnation.  Stick to the violin version.

Having finally obtained a recording of the piano version---I wouldn't call it dull, but the absence of the violin is too notable.  Perhaps because my ears have been trained on the "original'--but I kept hearing in my mental ear the violin as the piano soloist was playing, and the piano just couldn't match.

The recording, btw, features Amadeus Webersinke as pianist with Masur conducting the Leipzipg Gewandhaus, in a box set from Edel Classics [Ludwig van Beethoven;  Unbekannte Meisterwerke] I got from JPC late last spring and am now finally getting around to playing for a first listen.  The percussionist who did the honors on the kettledrum gets his own credit here, btw--Karl Mehlig, who is as completely unknown to me as Webersinke. 

Quote from: Reverend Bong on October 16, 2012, 12:12:31 PM
It's on my mental shopping list.
I'm just sitting down to an obscure one: Erich Röhn, Furtwangler, BPO, live 9th January 1944. The bootleg looking LP is issued by 'I Grandi Interpreti' - never heard of them.  IGI-364.  Gatefold album, second disc is Strauss, interior of gatefold is blank white, no notes, nothing.  On the front it says 'Wilhelm Furtwangler's last concert at the "Philharmonie"'. Anyone know anything about this?

It's not so obscure, having been issued by DG. The old Philharmonie was bombed on the 31st of January, 1944. F., who was only a guest conductor, never conducted there again. I have heard it and was not bowled over by Röhn, the Konzertmeister of the BPO - very good but not a revelation - but Furtwängler is very dynamic here. One can also listen to it on YouTube.

Quote from: mjwal on October 21, 2012, 05:10:22 AM
It's not so obscure, having been issued by DG.

- indeed.  Obscured only by my ignorance and the extremely bootleg-pressed-in-the-basement presentation of this LP.

However I felt more positive about Rohn than you, there's a piercing sweetness to his tone that I loved.  Made me feel like Teresa of Avila.

Quote from: DavidRoss on October 16, 2012, 03:51:29 AM

Quote from: Reverend Bong on October 16, 2012, 03:28:01 AM
Schneiderhan brings out an ineffable serenity, Krebbers a songlike beauty, Hubermann a unique kind of writhing madness.

None of whom I've heard in this; all of whom your prose now encourages me to hear. Thanks again.

Well, I found Schneiderhan and Hubermann on line and liked them quite a bit. But I didn't feel compelled to buy them. However, after hearing it once I just bought Isabelle Faust's new recording, and not just for the splendid Beethoven with Abbado and his band, but also for the top-notch Berg. This issue deserves all the accolades it's received, including Gramophone's nod as best concerto recording of the year -- and there's nothing English or even British about it!

Quote from: DavidRoss on November 05, 2012, 09:29:49 AM
None of whom I've heard in this; all of whom your prose now encourages me to hear. Thanks again.

Well, I found Schneiderhan and Hubermann on line and liked them quite a bit. But I didn't feel compelled to buy them. However, after hearing it once I just bought Isabelle Faust's new recording, and not just for the splendid Beethoven with Abbado and his band, but also for the top-notch Berg. This issue deserves all the accolades it's received, including Gramophone's nod as best concerto recording of the year -- and there's nothing English or even British about it!

I agree Faust is excellent in the Berg.  She consistently impresses me with her overall excellence across a wide spectrum of repertory.

Quote from: sanantonio on November 05, 2012, 09:46:28 AM
I agree Faust is excellent in the Berg.  She consistently impresses me with her overall excellence across a wide spectrum of repertory.

Aye. She's also a fine looking woman who impresses me (along with her label) by not marketing herself as a cheap sexpot ... or even an expensive one! And all the chamber music I've heard with her and Melnikov and Queyras impresses me also, not just in her sensitive ensemble play, but also in her sterling choice of colleagues.

Quote from: sanantonio on November 05, 2012, 09:46:28 AM
I agree Faust is excellent in the Berg.  She consistently impresses me with her overall excellence across a wide spectrum of repertory.

Yes, I bought this on the strength of forum recommendations and was riveted by the Berg which I didn't
know. As many others have said it's an extraordinary pairing, the contrast really makes you think about what music is.  However, remarkable though she was in the Berg, I wouldn't put her in the top flight for the Beethoven concerto.  There's certainly no comparison with the effortless floating brilliance of Schneiderhan.  My current listening is Zehetmair, again on the strength of this forum, and I love it, it's like hearing the work for the first time. 

Is it just my limited experience, or is there generally more impact to PI percussion? I noticed it not only in the Zehetmair but also with the splendid Pinnock Fireworks Music which we have been playing in memory of Mr Fawkes.

Quote from: Reverend Bong on November 05, 2012, 12:10:26 PMMy current listening is Zehetmair, again on the strength of this forum, and I love it, it's like hearing the work for the first time. 

Is it just my limited experience, or is there generally more impact to PI percussion? ...

Very gratifying to read that; that was exactly my impression... and still is. Dip Your Ears, No. 50 (Zehetmair's Beethoven) (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2006/01/dip-your-ears-no-50_25.html)

Percussion stands out for two reasons: unpadded wooden sticks are used... What adds to the impression of the timpanist standing in your living room with this recording is the fact that Bruggen/Zehetmair use the Beethoven-Schneiderhahn cadenza, which uses the timpani extensively (and stems from op.61a).

The Beethoven is IMO the greatest of all violin concertos and maybe the greatest work in concerto form. Obviously that is just my subjective opinion but every time I listen to it I am struck between the power and lyricism of the music\ in equal measure. A work such as this can take many interpretations but I am convinced that an over-reverent approach with slow tempi (especially in the first movement) can kill it. I used to have an LP of Joseph Suk's performance with Boult and while the playing is beautiful it seems the tempo of the first movement is too broad. A modern performance that falls into this trap is the Vengerov - horribly slow. Beethoven marked it Allegro ma non troppo - ie quick but not too quick, so a relatively brisk tempo is what he intended. However, the work can take many different approaches.
Performances I own include:
Heifetz \ Munch - I learned the work from this one as it was the first I owned on mono LP. A fabulous performance which was considered too brisk in its day. How critical opinion changes! Heifetz is in a class of his own as a player and the performance is full of drama while lyrical at the same time.
Heifetz \ Toscanini - again a fabulous performance but in one of the most unpleasant recordings ever. The Latest Naxos incarnation has improved the sound somewhat but you still have to use your imagination.
Menuhin \ Furtwangler - a great performance in a different style. Although Menuhin is slower in the first movement he is never dragging.
Schneiderhan \ Jochum - not bad but not for me the equal of the other two.
Kennedy / Tennstedt - bought it in a sale. Interesting. Nige prolongs the first movement but it somehow comes off. There is some supreme fiddling here. however, ignore Kennedy's silly sleeve note. He really should stick to playing the violin.
Kremer / Harnoncourt - really wonderful performance ruined by the fact that Kremer uses a ridiculous cadenza with piano accompaniment. Might have been OK as a once-off but irritates greatly on repeated listening.
Faust / Abbad0 - to my mind the best modern performance. Absolutely superbly played and accompanied. Seems to combine the best of both worlds between period and traditional. The Berg on the reverse is less my cup of tea but makes an interesting coupling.

I attended a performance of the Beethoven Violin Concerto last night and this prompted me to take stock of the versions of this work in my collection;


Belohlavek / Prague Philharmonic – soloist Faust [Harmonia Mundi]
van Beinum / Concertgebouw Orchestra Amsterdam – soloist Grumiaux [Philips]
Bruggen / Orchestra of the 18th Century – soloist Zehetmair [Philips]
Cluytens / French National Radio Orchestra – soloist Oistrakh [EMI]
Davis / Concertgebouw Orchestra Amsterdam – soloist Grumiaux [Philips]
Galliera / New Philharmonia Orchestra, soloist Grumiaux [Philips]
Gauk / Moscow State Orchestra – soloist Oistrakh [Allegro]
Haitink / Concertgebouw Orchestra Amsterdam – soloist Krebbers [Philips]
Jochum / Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra – soloist Schneiderhan [DG]
von Karajan / Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra – soloist Ferras [DG]
Konwitschny / Czech Philharmonic Orchestra – soloist Suk [Supraphon]
Munch / Boston Philharmonic – soloist Heifetz [RCA]
Munch / Boston Symphony Orchestra – soloist Heifetz [HMV]
Steinberg / Pittsburg Symphony Orchestra – soloist Milstein [EMI]
Walter / Columbia Symphony Orchestra – soloist Francescatti [Sony]
Whyte / BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra – soloist Menuhin [BBC]
Zinmann / Tonhalle Orchestra Zurich – soloist Tetzlaff [Arte Nova]


Are there any essential recordings/performances in your opinion that are missing from the above list?
What recommendations would you make for this work based on your own preferences?

If this has already been covered before then I would be obliged if someone coud direct me in the proper direction.

I have about that many recordings -- and not much overlap with your collection (Schneiderhan, Heifetz, Milstein-Steinberg). Schneiderhan and Milstein are among my favorites.

My tip-top favorite is Vera Beths with Tafelmusik. It's not universally loved though. It is fast, and one might wish, at times, for more character from the orchestra, but the climaxes are exuberant and among my favorite moments of recorded music.

Another interesting one is Kremer with Marriner. He plays controversial cadenzas by Schnittke. I like them. (I haven't heard his later recording with Harnoncourt.)

Speaking of unusual cadenzas, I never warmed to Kennedy's recording with Tennstedt. For one thing, the producer decided not to edit out a round of mid-performance applause. I don't get too bothered by that at concerts, but on record it is very annoying.

What are your favorites?

Quote from: Pat B on February 21, 2015, 07:56:50 PM
I have about that many recordings -- and not much overlap with your collection (Schneiderhan, Heifetz, Milstein-Steinberg). Schneiderhan and Milstein are among my favorites.

My tip-top favorite is Vera Beths with Tafelmusik. It's not universally loved though. It is fast, and one might wish, at times, for more character from the orchestra, but the climaxes are exuberant and among my favorite moments of recorded music.

Another interesting one is Kremer with Marriner. He plays controversial cadenzas by Schnittke. I like them. (I haven't heard his later recording with Harnoncourt.)

Speaking of unusual cadenzas, I never warmed to Kennedy's recording with Tennstedt. For one thing, the producer decided not to edit out a round of mid-performance applause. I don't get too bothered by that at concerts, but on record it is very annoying.

What are your favorites?

Thank you for your response. I do not know any of the recordings that you have mentioned so that is a good point from which to start to investigate new versions of this work.

For some reason it took me quite a long time to come to terms with this work. I really do not know why. Perhaps it was the length or the relative complexity of the work, or that long, meandering exposition. No matter what version that I listened to I just could not seem to grasp the architecture or the "meaning" of this concerto. Then I bought the Zinmann / Tetzlaff and for some reason it just fell into place. I honestly cannot say whether or not it was this recording that did it or whether continued repetition finally unveied the work's charms; either way, the Zinmann holds a special place for me ever since. I now see this work to be the masterpiece that it is and it has subsequently become my favourite violin concerto. It is interesting sometimes, the way that these things work out. However, If I could keep just one I think that I would opt for the Galliera / Grumiaux and the Konwitschny / Suk gets an honourable mention.

You might like this one, where Kopatchinskaja plays the piano cadenza, with multi-tracking.
[asin]B0029XIWC4[/asin]

Quote from: North Star on February 22, 2015, 01:06:27 AM
You might like this one, where Kopatchinskaja plays the piano cadenza, with multi-tracking.
[asin]B0029XIWC4[/asin]

Thank you for that....and Herreweghe directing; interesting.

mine are:

Fritz Kreisler, Staatskapelle Berlin, Leo Blech, 1926 (cadenzas: Kreisler)
Fritz Kreisler, London Philharmonic Orchestra, John Barbirolli, 1936 (cadenzas: Kreisler)
Jascha Heifetz, NBC Symphony Orchestra, Arturo Toscanini, 1940 (cadenzas: Auer/Joachim, arr. Heifetz)
Erica Morini, New York Philharmonic Symphony Orchestra, Vladimir Golschmann, live 1944
Zino Francescatti, Orchestre de la Société des Concerts du Conservatoire, André Cluytens, live 1946
Joseph Szigeti, New York Philharmonic, Bruno Walter, 1947
Yehudi Menuhin, Lucerne Festival Orchestra, Wilhelm Furtwängler, 1947 (cadenzas: Kreisler)
Ginette Neveu, Southwest German Radio Orchestra (Baden-Baden), Hans Rosbaud, 1949
Szymon Goldberg, New York Philharmonic Symphony Orchestra, Dimitri Mitropoulos, live 1950
Yehudi Menuhin, Philharmonia Orchestra, Wilhelm Furtwängler, 1953 (cadenzas: Kreisler)
Wolfgang Schneiderhan, Berliner Philharmoniker, Wilhlem Furtwängler, 1953
David Oistrakh, Stockholm Festival Orchestra, Sixten Ehrling, 1954
Jascha Heifetz, Boston Symphony Orchestra, Charles Munch, 1955 (cadenzas: Joachim/Heifetz)
Nathan Milstein, Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra, William Steinberg, 1955
Arthur Grumiaux, Concertgebouw Orchestra, Eduard van Beinum, 1957
Ida Haendel, Czech Philharmonic Orchestra, Karel Ancerl, live 1957
David Oistrakh, Orchestre National de la Radiodiffusion Française, André Cluytens, 1958
Berl Senofksy, Boston Symphony Orchestra, Pierre Monteux, live 1958
Christian Ferras, Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Malcolm Sargent, 1959
Yehudi Menuhin, Wiener Philharmoniker, Constantin Silvestri, 1960
Isaac Stern, New York Philharmonic, Leonard Bernstein, 1961 (cadenzas: Kreisler)
David Oistrakh, Moscow Philharmonic Orchestra, Gennady Rozhdestvensky, 1962
Arthur Grumiaux, New Philharmonia Orchestra, Alceo Galliera, 1966
Christian Ferras, Berliner Philharmoniker, Herbert von Karajan, 1967
Leonid Kogan, USSR State TV & Radio Symphony Orchestra, Gennady Rozhdestvensky, live 1970
Yehudi Menuhin, Menuhin Festival Orchestra, Yehudi Menuhin, 1971
Isaac Stern, New York Philharmonic, Daniel Barenboim, 1975
Hilary Hahn, Baltimore Symphony Orchestra, David Zinman, 1998
Viktoria Mullova, Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique, John Eliot Gardiner, 2002
Christian Tetzlaff, Tonhalle Orchestra Zurich, David Zinman, 2005
Patricia Kopatchinskaja, Orchestre des Champs-Elysées, Philippe Herreweghe, 2008

some, I've not yet listened ... favourites include Mullova, Ferras and Neveu. And yeah, I enjoy the PatKop/Herreweghe one, too!

Quote from: king ubu on February 22, 2015, 01:10:36 AM
mine are:

Fritz Kreisler, Staatskapelle Berlin, Leo Blech, 1926 (cadenzas: Kreisler)
Fritz Kreisler, London Philharmonic Orchestra, John Barbirolli, 1936 (cadenzas: Kreisler)
Jascha Heifetz, NBC Symphony Orchestra, Arturo Toscanini, 1940 (cadenzas: Auer/Joachim, arr. Heifetz)
Erica Morini, New York Philharmonic Symphony Orchestra, Vladimir Golschmann, live 1944
Zino Francescatti, Orchestre de la Société des Concerts du Conservatoire, André Cluytens, live 1946
Joseph Szigeti, New York Philharmonic, Bruno Walter, 1947
Yehudi Menuhin, Lucerne Festival Orchestra, Wilhelm Furtwängler, 1947 (cadenzas: Kreisler)
Ginette Neveu, Southwest German Radio Orchestra (Baden-Baden), Hans Rosbaud, 1949
Szymon Goldberg, New York Philharmonic Symphony Orchestra, Dimitri Mitropoulos, live 1950
Yehudi Menuhin, Philharmonia Orchestra, Wilhelm Furtwängler, 1953 (cadenzas: Kreisler)
Wolfgang Schneiderhan, Berliner Philharmoniker, Wilhlem Furtwängler, 1953
David Oistrakh, Stockholm Festival Orchestra, Sixten Ehrling, 1954
Jascha Heifetz, Boston Symphony Orchestra, Charles Munch, 1955 (cadenzas: Joachim/Heifetz)
Nathan Milstein, Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra, William Steinberg, 1955
Arthur Grumiaux, Concertgebouw Orchestra, Eduard van Beinum, 1957
Ida Haendel, Czech Philharmonic Orchestra, Karel Ancerl, live 1957
David Oistrakh, Orchestre National de la Radiodiffusion Française, André Cluytens, 1958
Berl Senofksy, Boston Symphony Orchestra, Pierre Monteux, live 1958
Christian Ferras, Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Malcolm Sargent, 1959
Yehudi Menuhin, Wiener Philharmoniker, Constantin Silvestri, 1960
Isaac Stern, New York Philharmonic, Leonard Bernstein, 1961 (cadenzas: Kreisler)
David Oistrakh, Moscow Philharmonic Orchestra, Gennady Rozhdestvensky, 1962
Arthur Grumiaux, New Philharmonia Orchestra, Alceo Galliera, 1966
Christian Ferras, Berliner Philharmoniker, Herbert von Karajan, 1967
Leonid Kogan, USSR State TV & Radio Symphony Orchestra, Gennady Rozhdestvensky, live 1970
Yehudi Menuhin, Menuhin Festival Orchestra, Yehudi Menuhin, 1971
Isaac Stern, New York Philharmonic, Daniel Barenboim, 1975
Hilary Hahn, Baltimore Symphony Orchestra, David Zinman, 1998
Viktoria Mullova, Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique, John Eliot Gardiner, 2002
Christian Tetzlaff, Tonhalle Orchestra Zurich, David Zinman, 2005
Patricia Kopatchinskaja, Orchestre des Champs-Elysées, Philippe Herreweghe, 2008

some, I've not yet listened ... favourites include Mullova, Ferras and Neveu. And yeah, I enjoy the PatKop/Herreweghe one, too!

Thank you for that; it is a considerable collection.
I have been considering the Mullova / Gardiner.

Quote from: aligreto on February 22, 2015, 03:42:33 AM

Thank you for that; it is a considerable collection.

'fraid so ... and many of them would need to be played again in order to make any statements about. I'm generally quite big on Francescatti, Grumiaux, Szigeti, Goldberg, Menuhin, and also Hahn. The latter's didn't leave much of an impression so far, but some of the others (including Morini, Milstein, Stern, Haendel, Oistrakh) would have to be played again as well. The Tetzlaff is the latest addition, just got the big Zinman/Tonhalle box last week.

I wonder, is there a recommended one by Frank Peter Zimmermann? The EMI one w/Tate?

I own somewhere between 15 and 20 recordings of the concerto, but my favorites are:

Wolfgang Schneiderhan / Berlin. Phil. / van Kempen

Igor Oistrakh / Philharmonia / Schüchter

and

Christian Tetzlaff / SWD / Gielen

Quote from: North Star on February 22, 2015, 01:06:27 AM
You might like this one, where Kopatchinskaja plays the piano cadenza, with multi-tracking.
[asin]B0029XIWC4[/asin]

+1
I return most often to this version.

Quote from: aligreto on February 22, 2015, 03:42:33 AM
I have been considering the Mullova / Gardiner.

Mullova/Gardiner gets my vote, too. High on the lyricism, yet not diffuse.

Quote from: aligreto on February 21, 2015, 06:37:07 AM
I attended a performance of the Beethoven Violin Concerto last night and this prompted me to take stock of the versions of this work in my collection;


Belohlavek / Prague Philharmonic – soloist Faust [Harmonia Mundi]
van Beinum / Concertgebouw Orchestra Amsterdam – soloist Grumiaux [Philips]
Bruggen / Orchestra of the 18th Century – soloist Zehetmair [Philips]
Cluytens / French National Radio Orchestra – soloist Oistrakh [EMI]
Davis / Concertgebouw Orchestra Amsterdam – soloist Grumiaux [Philips]
Galliera / New Philharmonia Orchestra, soloist Grumiaux [Philips]
Gauk / Moscow State Orchestra – soloist Oistrakh [Allegro]
Haitink / Concertgebouw Orchestra Amsterdam – soloist Krebbers [Philips]
Jochum / Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra – soloist Schneiderhan [DG]
von Karajan / Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra – soloist Ferras [DG]
Konwitschny / Czech Philharmonic Orchestra – soloist Suk [Supraphon]
Munch / Boston Philharmonic – soloist Heifetz [RCA]
Munch / Boston Symphony Orchestra – soloist Heifetz [HMV]
Steinberg / Pittsburg Symphony Orchestra – soloist Milstein [EMI]
Walter / Columbia Symphony Orchestra – soloist Francescatti [Sony]
Whyte / BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra – soloist Menuhin [BBC]
Zinmann / Tonhalle Orchestra Zurich – soloist Tetzlaff [Arte Nova]


Are there any essential recordings/performances in your opinion that are missing from the above list?
What recommendations would you make for this work based on your own preferences?

If this has already been covered before then I would be obliged if someone coud direct me in the proper direction.

Desarzens/lausanne/Thibaud. That and Zehetmair are the two that I've got the most from, I think.

Quote from: king ubu on February 22, 2015, 03:51:38 AM
'fraid so ... and many of them would need to be played again in order to make any statements about. I'm generally quite big on Francescatti, Grumiaux, Szigeti, Goldberg, Menuhin, and also Hahn. The latter's didn't leave much of an impression so far, but some of the others (including Morini, Milstein, Stern, Haendel, Oistrakh) would have to be played again as well. The Tetzlaff is the latest addition, just got the big Zinman/Tonhalle box last week.

I wonder, is there a recommended one by Frank Peter Zimmermann? The EMI one w/Tate?

I did not know of that one before you mentioned it....


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51CjrTj9NyL._SY355_.jpg)


I certainly enjoy Tate in Mozart but that does not mean that he would transfer well to this work of course; but I do have respect for his work.

Quote from: aligreto on February 22, 2015, 09:06:56 AM

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51CjrTj9NyL._SY355_.jpg)


I certainly enjoy Tate in Mozart but that does not mean that he would transfer well to this work of course; but I do have respect for his work.

Incidentally I listened to this only five days ago. It is a very lyrical and balanced interpretation.

Quote from: (: premont :) on February 22, 2015, 04:33:53 AM
I own somewhere between 15 and 20 recordings of the concerto, but my favorites are:

Wolfgang Schneiderhan / Berlin. Phil. / van Kempen

Igor Oistrakh / Philharmonia / Schüchter

and

Christian Tetzlaff / SWD / Gielen

Thank you for that; I would like to here the one that I have highlighted above.

Quote from: HIPster on February 22, 2015, 07:58:09 AM
+1
I return most often to this version.

Thank you; another vote for this one. I have just noticed that it is on the Naive label, which I like.

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on February 22, 2015, 08:08:23 AM
Mullova/Gardiner gets my vote, too. High on the lyricism, yet not diffuse.

Yes, I definitely think that I will buy that one.

I am not sure whether I have heard Tetzlaff/Zinman. I like Tetzlaff/Gielen; it was one of the fastest when it came out (and may still be one of the fastest in the slow movement). But it is also rather "cool" when compared with e.g. Zehetmair/Brüggen.
But admittedly, I am not a great fan of the piece (it is probably my least favorite among Beethoven's major orchestral pieces) and have not heard so many recordings thoroughly.

Quote from: Mandryka on February 22, 2015, 08:17:35 AM
Desarzens/lausanne/Thibaud. That and Zehetmair are the two that I've got the most from, I think.

I would need to check that one out; I recognise Thibaud's name of course but not that of Desarzens. Do you have that on vinyl by any chance?

Quote from: Jo498 on February 22, 2015, 09:32:32 AM
I am not sure whether I have heard Tetzlaff/Zinman. I like Tetzlaff/Gielen; it was one of the fastest when it came out (and may still be one of the fastest in the slow movement). But it is also rather "cool" when compared with e.g. Zehetmair/Brüggen.
But admittedly, I am not a great fan of the piece (it is probably my least favorite among Beethoven's major orchestral pieces) and have not heard so many recordings thoroughly.

I find it interesting that you like it given that you are not such a big fan of the work. It obviously made some connection with you.

Quote from: aligreto on February 22, 2015, 09:35:04 AM
I would need to check that one out; I recognise Thibaud's name of course but not that of Desarzens. Do you have that on vinyl by any chance?

I have it on a collection called "In Memorium Jacques Thibaud"

The first I heard was Hoelscher on an EMI MC which I do not have anymore. I do not remember what my first version on CD was. The piece is obviously quite long and it is not so long if played in a more flowing tempo. When I say, it is not a favorite this should be read in the context that even a not quite favorite piece by Beethoven (like this one, the triple concerto or the septet or the 1st symphony or whatever) is still a piece I will like and regard highly because Beethoven is my favorite composer.
I wrote this more to indicate that I have not listened thoroughly to dozens of recordings. But I think I know the piece reasonably well, have followed with a score, read analytical remarks etc. But still I do not know it as well or care as much about it as many other pieces by Beethoven.
Zehetmair/Brüggen ist the most dramatic I have heard; I think they are almost to brutal in the march-like bits of the first movement. As I recall the Tetzlaff/Gielen is fleet but keeps more in line the usual lyrical interpretations. The usual lyrical interpretation when played as usual rather slow and sometimes with wayward tempo rubato tend to bore me.

Quote from: Mandryka on February 22, 2015, 09:39:17 AM
I have it on a collection called "In Memorium Jacques Thibaud"

Thank you for that onformation.

Quote from: Jo498 on February 22, 2015, 01:11:07 PM
The first I heard was Hoelscher on an EMI MC which I do not have anymore. I do not remember what my first version on CD was. The piece is obviously quite long and it is not so long if played in a more flowing tempo. When I say, it is not a favorite this should be read in the context that even a not quite favorite piece by Beethoven (like this one, the triple concerto or the septet or the 1st symphony or whatever) is still a piece I will like and regard highly because Beethoven is my favorite composer.
I wrote this more to indicate that I have not listened thoroughly to dozens of recordings. But I think I know the piece reasonably well, have followed with a score, read analytical remarks etc. But still I do not know it as well or care as much about it as many other pieces by Beethoven.
Zehetmair/Brüggen ist the most dramatic I have heard; I think they are almost to brutal in the march-like bits of the first movement. As I recall the Tetzlaff/Gielen is fleet but keeps more in line the usual lyrical interpretations. The usual lyrical interpretation when played as usual rather slow and sometimes with wayward tempo rubato tend to bore me.

OK, I understand what you are saying. I tend not to like Beethoven's music to sound too "pretty" myself; I think that it is better with a bit of "bite" in it.

I would add  intensive recommendations for Huggett/Mackerras nad Szeryng/Haitink recordings. Former is one of my two favorites PI recordings (alongside with Zehetmair/Bruggen), later is so far my second MI choice after Heifetz/Munch.

I always find myself returning to Hilary Hahn's recording although I am not always happy with the orchestra's contribution.
However, I find her playing immensely satisfying! Go Hahn!  (http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/violin.gif)


[asin] B00000GV4L[/asin]

Quote from: mszczuj on February 22, 2015, 01:53:37 PM
I would add  intensive recommendations for Huggett/Mackerras nad Szeryng/Haitink recordings. Former is one of my two favorites PI recordings (alongside with Zehetmair/Bruggen), later is so far my second MI choice after Heifetz/Munch.

Oh that is very interesting; I did not know that Huggett had made a recording of this work.

I still have my old family LP recording, a lovely lyrical classic by Zino Francescatti, Eugene Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra from somewhere around 1950.  We also had the Munch/Heifetz, but I much prefer Francescatti's tone and lyricism.  He was one of the great ones, yet is seldom remembered now.

Hmmm...I would like to hear a more modern, faster and dynamic recording...

Francescatti/Walter is my "comfort food" version.  My first was Ferras/Karajan, which was the bonus LP for signing up for the International Preview Society, along with Boehm's Beethoven Symphony set.   Schneiderhan was the first one I had on CD.  It's one of the few recordings that uses a cadenza transcribed from the one Beethoven wrote for the piano and orchestra arrangement of the concerto, a cadenza I don't care much for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violin_Concerto_%28Beethoven%29#Alternative_versions

Quote from: North Star on February 22, 2015, 01:06:27 AM
You might like this one, where Kopatchinskaja plays the piano cadenza, with multi-tracking.
[asin]B0029XIWC4[/asin]

+1!

I'd also heartily recommend Kremer/Harnoncourt (who also plays that same, splendid cadenza).

But Kremer/Harnoncourt have a crazy version of the cadenza by more or less playing the piano and violin version of it at the same time. I am not fond of this handling of the cadenza but for some reason I am keeping the disc, probably I liked the playing except for the crazy cadenza...

Quote from: Jo498 on February 23, 2015, 03:50:02 AM
But Kremer/Harnoncourt have a crazy version of the cadenza by more or less playing the piano and violin version of it at the same time. I am not fond of this handling of the cadenza but for some reason I am keeping the disc, probably I liked the playing except for the crazy cadenza...

I am extremely fond both of their handling of the cadenza (a nod, moreover, to the fact that it originated in the piano concerto transcription of the work) and of their interpretation overall.

Don't you find it strange that a piano appears out of thin air for the cadenza? It is a *violin* concerto!

Quote from: Jo498 on February 23, 2015, 04:48:37 AM
Don't you find it strange that a piano appears out of thin air for the cadenza? It is a *violin* concerto!

I have not heard that version but I know that I would also find that strange.

Quote from: aligreto on February 21, 2015, 06:37:07 AM
Are there any essential recordings/performances in your opinion that are missing from the above list?
What recommendations would you make for this work based on your own preferences?

I miss two Golden Oldies: Georg Kulenkampff and Bronislav Huberman. Suggestions below.

My all time favorites are: Zehetmair/Brüggen, Huberman/Szell and Schneiderhan/Jochum.

[asin]B004GHYCGG[/asin]

[asin]B00004HYLG[/asin]

The Huberman has been also issued on Appian, which would be a preferable transfer provided you can find it...

Kulenkampf also did a live recording with Furtwängler (Melodyia)

Q

Quote from: Que on February 23, 2015, 09:09:40 AM
I miss two Golden Oldies: Georg Kulenkampff and Bronislav Huberman. Suggestions below.

....

[asin]B004GHYCGG[/asin]

[asin]B00004HYLG[/asin]

The Huberman has been also issued on Appian, which would be a preferable transfer provided you can find it...

Kulenkampf also did a live recording with Furtwängler (Melodyia)

Q

Thank you for that but I must display my ignorance and say that I have not come across those two names before.

Quote from: Jo498 on February 23, 2015, 04:48:37 AM
Don't you find it strange that a piano appears out of thin air for the cadenza? It is a *violin* concerto!

So do the timpani. In a *violin* concerto. The nerve of some people!

Quote from: aligreto on February 23, 2015, 09:03:19 AM
I have not heard that version but I know that I would also find that strange.

It's all a matter of perspective. The piano and timpani version is actually what Beethoven wrote and the end result of this violin/piano/timpani cadenza ends up being tongue-in-cheek brilliant. I think Kremer/Harnoncourt sought to replicate part of the shock value that Beethoven probably intended by incorporating the timpani in the first place. The result is in my view in very good taste and quite refreshing-sounding. Of course, YMMV.

As the concerto starts with timpani (and Beethoven had already pulled the timpani for the (end of the) cadenza in the 3rd piano concerto) they are admissible. But the piano is, as you say, a shock effect that makes no sense for me and gets on my nerves quickly. I admit that I have never heard the piano version of this concerto but I am not terribly fond of the cadenza even in the "normal" version, i.e. Schneiderhan's arrangement for violin (+ timps).

Quote from: aligreto on February 23, 2015, 11:00:19 AM
Thank you for that but I must display my ignorance and say that I have not come across those two names before.

I'm not familiar with Kulenkampff.

Huberman was a big name in his era, I would guess second among his generation in fame (to Kreisler). I have that Naxos disc. IIRC the orchestral playing is very rough, and the sound quality is about what you'd expect from the 1930s. But Huberman has a very distinctive style, unlike any others I've heard. For someone who has over a dozen versions, and is looking for more, it would be a good choice, if you can tolerate the sound quality.

I have:

Zehetmair/Brüggen
Kopatchinskaja/Herreweghe
Mullova / Gardiner
Beths / Tafelmusik

and a bunch on modern instruments like Mutter/Karajan (doesn't everyone??) and Ricci etc., more than I can remember, actually. I listen to the PI ones fairly often, but I got burned out on this work some time back. As much as I like it, I still don't listen as often as I used to. That said, I have them listed pretty much in order of favorite. I couldn't not have Zehetmair if I had to give up all but one, so I guess that is the decider.  :)

8)

Quote from: Pat B on February 23, 2015, 12:50:45 PM
I'm not familiar with Kulenkampff.

Huberman was a big name in his era, I would guess second among his generation in fame (to Kreisler). I have that Naxos disc. IIRC the orchestral playing is very rough, and the sound quality is about what you'd expect from the 1930s. But Huberman has a very distinctive style, unlike any others I've heard. For someone who has over a dozen versions, and is looking for more, it would be a good choice, if you can tolerate the sound quality.

You make a compelling argument in the sense that his style appears to be quite unique. I can tolerate poor sound quality [what does one really expect from the 1930s?] if the performance is worth it. This one sounds interesting.

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on February 23, 2015, 01:07:44 PM
I have:

Zehetmair/Brüggen
Kopatchinskaja/Herreweghe
Mullova / Gardiner
Beths / Tafelmusik

and a bunch on modern instruments like Mutter/Karajan (doesn't everyone??) and Ricci etc., more than I can remember, actually. I listen to the PI ones fairly often, but I got burned out on this work some time back. As much as I like it, I still don't listen as often as I used to. That said, I have them listed pretty much in order of favorite. I couldn't not have Zehetmair if I had to give up all but one, so I guess that is the decider.  :)

8)

I would have a hard time pressed to decide between Zehetmair and Mullova.  :)

Quote from: Gordo on February 23, 2015, 01:22:40 PM
I would have a hard time pressed to decide between Zehetmair and Mullova.  :)

Mullova does a great Beethoven, her sonatas with Bezuidenhout being a case in point. :)

8)

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on February 23, 2015, 01:30:19 PM
Mullova does a great Beethoven, her sonatas with Bezuidenhout being a case in point. :)

8)

Speaking of which, these days I'm a bit obsessed with a set that, somehow, had slipped under my radar: Hiro Kurosaki and Linda Nicholson (Accent).

I have been listening to their disks via ClassicsOnline HD, and it has been a very pleasant experience.

Have you heard some of them, Gurn?

Quote from: Gordo on February 23, 2015, 02:13:36 PM
Speaking of which, these days I'm a bit obsessed with a set that, somehow, had slipped under my radar: Hiro Kurosaki and Linda Nicholson (Accent).

I have been listening to their disks via ClassicsOnline HD, and it has been a very pleasant experience.

Have you heard some of them, Gurn?

No, under my radar too, I guess. In fact, those players are too. PI?

8)

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on February 23, 2015, 02:46:20 PM
No, under my radar too, I guess. In fact, those players are too. PI?

8)

Totally PI.

If you have some recording of the London Fortepiano Trio (Mozart piano trios on Hyperion, maybe?), she plays there.

Kurosaki has been concertino of Les Arts Florissants, Clemencic Consort, London Baroque, Cappella Coloniensis y Orquesta Barroca de Sevilla. As far as I recall, I just have one monographic disk by him, some excellent Handel's violin sonatas with William Christie.

Quote from: Gordo on February 23, 2015, 06:54:34 PM
Totally PI.

If you have some recording of the London Fortepiano Trio (Mozart piano trios on Hyperion, maybe?), she plays there.

Kurosaki has been concertino of Les Arts Florissants, Clemencic Consort, London Baroque, Cappella Coloniensis y Orquesta Barroca de Sevilla. As far as I recall, I just have one monographic disk by him, some excellent Handel's violin sonatas with William Christie.

Ah yes, I thought her name was familiar, couldn't place it. I have both the Mozart and Haydn trios by them. I also have disks by all those groups excepet the last, so I must have things by him, too. I'm bad with names...

All of which gets us too far from the concerto in question. Although apparently only things recorded before the dawn of time will do anyway...  :D

8)

Quote from: aligreto on February 23, 2015, 01:14:29 PM
You make a compelling argument in the sense that his style appears to be quite unique. I can tolerate poor sound quality [what does one really expect from the 1930s?] if the performance is worth it. This one sounds interesting.

The plus of the Huberman Naxos disc is that it is cheap, widely available and combines two epic recordings,  since IMO the Tchaikovsky is equally desirable.  :)
The best transfers however, are to be found elsewhere. For the Beethoven this Appian disc, which is unfortunately OOP, but copies still float around.

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/018/MI0001018613.jpg)

Tchaikovsky is off topic here, but Opus Kura is the way to go: 8)

[asin]B00B0LKO0O[/asin]
Q

Quote from: Jo498 on February 23, 2015, 12:49:14 PM
As the concerto starts with timpani (and Beethoven had already pulled the timpani for the (end of the) cadenza in the 3rd piano concerto) they are admissible. But the piano is, as you say, a shock effect that makes no sense for me and gets on my nerves quickly. I admit that I have never heard the piano version of this concerto but I am not terribly fond of the cadenza even in the "normal" version, i.e. Schneiderhan's arrangement for violin (+ timps).

There's no rule for admissibility, but of course you're entitled to your personal preference. De gustibus and all that. Cadenzas have always been the performers' prerogative, so the occasional touch of originality is always welcome in my book.

Quote from: Que on February 23, 2015, 10:17:29 PM
The plus of the Huberman Naxos disc is that it is cheap, widely available and combines two epic recordings,  since IMO the Tchaikovsky is equally desirable.  :)
The best transfers however, are to be found elsewhere. For the Beethoven this Appian disc, which is unfortunately OOP, but copies still float around.

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/018/MI0001018613.jpg)

Tchaikovsky is off topic here, but Opus Kura is the way to go: 8)

[asin]B00B0LKO0O[/asin]
Q

Thank you for that. Agreed on the Tchaikovsky.

My first purchase as a direct result of this thread....


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51a6QvwyzxL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)


The Mullova / Gardiner definitely seems to be held in high regard. I eagerly await it.


Edit: During my first listen to this CD the term silky smooth came to mind. This sounded like a completely effortless performance from both soloist and orchestra and yet one had the tension and the drama there as well. I thought that it was assertive where it should be and thoughtful and restrained in the relevant areas. Mullova certainly brings a lot to this work with her performance and she is sensitively accompanied by the orchestra. It is a performance of refinement and elegance and a powerful interpretation which has very quickly shot up the hierarchy of my preferences in this work.

I have bought Kyung-Wha Chung / Klaus Tennsteadt version....


(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/091/MI0001091452.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)


Edit: To my ear this is a somewhat measured performance of the Beethoven violin concerto. Tempi are on the slow side but it is well paced and the music and phrasing has plenty of time to breath in the first two movements. The tempo picks up in the final movement which ultimately drives on to a grand finale. Someone commented to me recently that Chung's playing has a very feminine vulnerability that is very touching in this recording and I certainly see that in the slow movement; her playing is very fine throughout.


The  Bruch VC No. 1 is another strong performance from both soloist and orchestra. Chung's playing is both tender and powerful in the appropriate places. This is certainly no filler and is a great coupling for me with two of my favourite violin concertos getting very good performances.

Quote from: aligreto on March 03, 2015, 12:51:58 PM
I have bought Kyung-Wha Chung / Klaus Tennsteadt version....


(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/091/MI0001091452.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

I have that one, too (along with Mullova). Tennstedt's vision is stately, pulsing, reflective, along those lines. It's good but it radiates pure romanticism. 

Quote from: aligreto on March 03, 2015, 12:51:58 PM
I have bought Kyung-Wha Chung / Klaus Tennsteadt version....

Well-played, but rather lethargic (especially in the first movement).

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on March 03, 2015, 03:45:58 PM
I have that one, too (along with Mullova). Tennstedt's vision is stately, pulsing, reflective, along those lines. It's good but it radiates pure romanticism.

Thank you for that; it should make for a good contrasting version to the Mullova so.

Quote from: Wanderer on March 03, 2015, 10:21:59 PM
Well-played, but rather lethargic (especially in the first movement).

I will listen attentively to the first movement tempo based on your comment.

My next purchase....


(http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/18166837/Beethoven++Mendelssohn+Violin+Concertos.jpg)


Edit: I attended a recital featuring Monica Huggett this evening so it seemed very appropriate to play this tonight. I really liked everything about it. Huggett's playing and interpretation I really like; there is a somewhat different "feel" to this performance. I also love Mackerras' direction of the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment; a great combination that I have not heard before. So, I am very satisfied with this purchase and it is one that I would readily recommend.

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on March 03, 2015, 03:45:58 PM
I have that one [Chung], too (along with Mullova). Tennstedt's vision is stately, pulsing, reflective, along those lines. It's good but it radiates pure romanticism.

As was said on BBC Building a Library - "a lot has changed since then".  They plumped for Faust/Belohlavek but that was back in 2011 and maybe "a lot has changed since then" too.

Quote from: aukhawk on March 08, 2015, 05:12:23 AM
As was said on BBC Building a Library - "a lot has changed since then".  They plumped for Faust/Belohlavek but that was back in 2011 and maybe "a lot has changed since then" too.

Tastes and fashions can and do indeed change over time and it would be interesting to see who would get the recommendation today. Anyway, these things are totally subjective and a different presenter on the day would have picked a different version.

I have just played the Chung/Tennstedt version and I have edited my post above.

Quote from: aligreto on March 08, 2015, 06:49:38 AM
Tastes and fashions can and do indeed change over time and it would be interesting to see who would get the recommendation today. Anyway, these things are totally subjective and a different presenter on the day would have picked a different version.
I have just played the Chung/Tennstedt version and I have edited my post above.

It was a top recommendation when it was first issued, I can remember that.  (Chung, and Faust/Abbado, are the only two versions I've got - the Faust partly for the strong coupling of the Berg concerto which I don't otherwise have.)

Quote from: aukhawk on March 08, 2015, 10:32:01 AM
It was a top recommendation when it was first issued, I can remember that.  (Chung, and Faust/Abbado, are the only two versions I've got - the Faust partly for the strong coupling of the Berg concerto which I don't otherwise have.)

As a result of this thread and a subsequent purchase I can now wholeheartedly recommend the Mullova/Gardiner version if and when you are ever in the market for another version.

My latest purchase....


(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0002/947/MI0002947477.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)


I like Tate in Mozart so I am curious to see how he does in Beethoven.

If we are going to have a straight "I show you mine if you show me yours" thread, could we enhance it by also including who plays which cadenza (if it isn't the standard Kreisler)? That might be interesting.

Mullova, for example, plays Ottavio Dantone's cadenzas. Kremer I plays Schnittke (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0030AHBA4/goodmusicguide-20), I believe. Zehetmaier, Tetzlaff, Kopachinskaja et al. play Beethoven-Schneiderhan a.k.a. "61a"... and so forth. Ricci includes a whole bunch of them on his Biddulph recording (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000001ZEB/goodmusicguide-20).

My favorites:

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000023ZEM.01.L.jpg)
L.v. Beethoven,  Violin Concerto (61a)
Thomas Zehetmair, Frans Brüggen, Orchestra of the 18th Century
Philips/Decca (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B002N1RM5K/goodmusicguide-20)
German link (http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B002N1RM5K/goodmusicguide-21) - UK link (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B002N1RM5K/goodmusicguideuk-21)
My favorite. Like a new set of ears for the work.

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000CS4JRK.01.L.jpg)
L.v. Beethoven,  Violin Concerto (61a)
Christian Tetzlaff / David Zinman / Tonhalle Orchestra Zurich
Arte Nova (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000CS4JRK/goodmusicguide-20)
German link (http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000CS4JRK/goodmusicguide-21) - UK link (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000CS4JRK/goodmusicguideuk-21)

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B002A9ZNHO.01.L.jpg)
L.v. Beethoven,  Violin Concerto + Berg!
Arabella Steinbacher / Andris Nelsons / WDR SO Cologne
Orfeo (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B002A9ZNHO/goodmusicguide-20)
German link (http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B002A9ZNHO/goodmusicguide-21) - UK link (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B002A9ZNHO/goodmusicguideuk-21)
Nelsons's conducting is notably amazing, here!

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0062QFZ10.01.L.jpg)
L.v. Beethoven,  Violin Concerto  (61a*) + Berg!
Isabelle Faust II / Claudio Abbado / Orchestra Mozart
Harmonia Mundi (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0062QFZ10/goodmusicguide-20)
German link (http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0062QFZ10/goodmusicguide-21) - UK link (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0062QFZ10/goodmusicguideuk-21)

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00H9N3INW.01.L.jpg)
L.v. Beethoven,  Violin Concerto
Christian Ferras / Herbert von Karajan / BPh
DG (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00H9N3INW/goodmusicguide-20)
German link (http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00H9N3INW/goodmusicguide-21) - UK link (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00H9N3INW/goodmusicguideuk-21)

Kremer (I, Marriner, Philips) nearly made the cut, but I did want to include one 'golden-age' performance when I'm already not including mercurial Milstein (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005NW05/goodmusicguide-20). (An adjective purely chosen for its alliterative value, btw.) OK, let him:

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00000E2NO.01.L.jpg)
L.v. Beethoven,  Violin Concerto (Schnittke)
Gidon Kremer I, Neville Marriner, Orchestra of St.Martin in the Fields
Philips/Decca (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00H9N3INW/goodmusicguide-20)
German link (http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0030AHBA4/goodmusicguide-21) - UK link (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0030AHBA4/goodmusicguideuk-21)

 My favorite versions are:
     Rohn with Furtwängler (1944). Trust to say, Rohn is not a great fiedler, his tone is not really distinctive, and uncomfort in high notes. But his tempo, phrasing seems near perfect for me. And Furtwängler IMO is the best partner in this concerto, supportive but also highlight drama by his efficient use of rubato, even in relative fast tempo. Conversation passages between violin and orchestra is so effective, balanced.
     Zeheitmair with Brüggen (1980s). Technicianly, Zeheitmair is better than Rohn, his tone is purer. Zeheitmair, Brüggen handle their part nearly perfect, especially in the conversation passages. But for me, the orchestra part is still little too straight, not expressive as Furtwängler version.
    Huberman with Szell (1934). As a violinist, I prefer Huberman to both Rohn and Zeheitmar. His technique is on par with Zeheitmair, and his phrasing is more distinctive. In this concerto, he play great and Szell did good job in this part, but it seems that VPO and Huberman do not have great synergy.

  Among the follow up, there are
         Oistrakh with Cluytens (great romantic approach but it suites more with Brahms than Beethoven),
         Kogan, Heifetz, Milstein (the only problems for three of them is that their performance become a showcase of violin part, the orchestra part is only a support, not a true partner),
         Menuhin with Furtwängler (the better is on Lucerne 28.09.1947 on Audite, not EMI or Testament, his playing is great but Furtwängler somewhat lacks the dynamic and explosive quality of his wartime performances),
         Faust (great playing with many effective personal details, Abbado conducts his part great)

Quote from: aligreto on February 23, 2015, 09:03:19 AM
I have not heard that version but I know that I would also find that strange.

You might be surprised. Even a "strange" cadenza (which I don't think this one is) is a small price to pay for such a good performance.

Quote from: trung224 on March 20, 2015, 03:23:55 PM
My favorite versions are:
     Rohn with Furtwängler (1944). Trust to say, Rohn is not a great fiedler, his tone is not really distinctive, and uncomfort in high notes. But his tempo, phrasing seems near perfect for me. And Furtwängler IMO is the best partner in this concerto, supportive but also highlight drama by his efficient use of rubato, even in relative fast tempo. Conversation passages between violin and orchestra is so effective, balanced.
     Zeheitmair with Brüggen (1980s). Technicianly, Zeheitmair is better than Rohn, his tone is purer. Zeheitmair, Brüggen handle their part nearly perfect, especially in the conversation passages. But for me, the orchestra part is still little too straight, not expressive as Furtwängler version.
    Huberman with Szell (1934). As a violinist, I prefer Huberman to both Rohn and Zeheitmar. His technique is on par with Zeheitmair, and his phrasing is more distinctive. In this concerto, he play great and Szell did good job in this part, but it seems that VPO and Huberman do not have great synergy.

  Among the follow up, there are
         Oistrakh with Cluytens (great romantic approach but it suites more with Brahms than Beethoven),
         Kogan, Heifetz, Milstein (the only problems for three of them is that their performance become a showcase of violin part, the orchestra part is only a support, not a true partner),
         Menuhin with Furtwängler (the better is on Lucerne 28.09.1947 on Audite, not EMI or Testament, his playing is great but Furtwängler somewhat lacks the dynamic and explosive quality of his wartime performances),
         Faust (great playing with many effective personal details, Abbado conducts his part great)

Thank you for that contribution. I have not heard of Rohn or Kogan.

Quote from: Wanderer on March 20, 2015, 11:38:49 PM
You might be surprised. Even a "strange" cadenza (which I don't think this one is) is a small price to pay for such a good performance.

Yes indeed, that may well be a good point.

What do people think of the Jansen/Järvi?

[asin]B002GJ3MRQ[/asin]

It was my first recording (I am relatively new to classical music) and still holds a special place in my heart. The Britten concerto on the same disc is awfully good as well.

Quote from: betterthanfine on March 23, 2015, 01:15:42 AM
What do people think of the Jansen/Järvi?

[asin]B002GJ3MRQ[/asin]

It was my first recording (I am relatively new to classical music) and still holds a special place in my heart. The Britten concerto on the same disc is awfully good as well.

I do not have it nor have I heard it but I await comments with interest. I notice the coupling and I have no recordings of the Britten VC. A friend of mine likes Janine Jansen but I have not heard much of her performances.

Quote from: aligreto on March 23, 2015, 10:05:09 AM
I do not have it nor have I heard it but I await comments with interest. I notice the coupling and I have no recordings of the Britten VC. A friend of mine likes Janine Jansen but I have not heard much of her performances.

I don't know the performance, but the Britten is a wonderful work.

just stumbled over this thread on the old gmg forum on the same topic (I was trying to find any Mischa Elman thread - in vain, alas):
http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php?topic=9560

was hooked pretty quickly and thought others might enjoy the read (and of course, David Zinman is a swiss-german  ;D)

(http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mB7JDt33sJSa_1FK5SXpFoQ.jpg)


This vinyl is a recent purchase. One obviously knows of the Kreisler cadenzas used in many violinists' performances of the Beethoven violin concerto but I had not heard Kreisler himself playing the concerto before now. What an amazing performance it was with both technical and lyrical ability abounding. The sound quality was amazing considering that the performance was recorded in December 1926.

Lola Bobesco playing live, EMI


First movement https://youtu.be/zL046NrbXno

End of first movement cadenza - https://youtu.be/FexeAwyvetI

Transition from second to third movement https://youtu.be/NCRud-kaDzE

More of the third movement https://youtu.be/AzGzFXGTAFE

Herman Krebbers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAbY7Od8Zeo

Quote from: bonzo75 on May 18, 2023, 01:21:06 AMHerman Krebbers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAbY7Od8Zeo

Great Dutch violinist. If you are unfamiliar with his Brahms recording - definitely try it.