My favorites at the moment are Tipo (EMI) and Arrau (Philips) with good marks for Ashkenazy.
The interesting thing about these works, in my view, is that atmosphere is more important than pyrotechnics. Technical brilliance is irrelevant, except to the extent that it makes the performance sound effortless.
Tipo is my current favorite because of the way she indulges herself in a way that seems free and playful without becoming "self-indulgent" in the pejorative sense. And how can anyone fault Arrau's aristocratic sentiment here?
You've got my two favorites there for sure, Scarpia. Arrau's set was my first and I love the way every phrase, every note, is handled with exquisite care. Tipo's set is great too. I can't say anything specific, as I don't know it as well as the Arrau, but I certainly plan to hear it more. In fact, I think that many pianists play these works well, I wonder if it's because they are beloved by pianists? Pires has a very nice, if somewhat "big" way with them, perhaps great Nocturnes to enjoy at dusk. Moravec's classic set features his gorgeous tone and his deep sensitivity. Rubinstein's two mono sets are wonderful, with the earliest one being my preferred of the two. Wasowski is not as good here as he is with the Mazurkas, but he's still among the better ones that I have heard. Like you, I enjoy Ashkenazy's, but find that others bring more to these works.
Quote from: George on January 28, 2010, 11:57:07 AM
You've got my two favorites there for sure, Scarpia. Arrau's set was my first and I love the way every phrase, every note, is handled with exquisite care. Tipo's set is great too. I can't say anything specific, as I don't know it as well as the Arrau, but I certainly plan to hear it more. In fact, I think that many pianists play these works well, I wonder if it's because they are beloved by pianists? Pires has a very nice, if somewhat "big" way with them, perhaps great Nocturnes to enjoy at dusk. Moravec's classic set features his gorgeous tone and his deep sensitivity. Rubinstein's two mono sets are wonderful, with the earliest one being my preferred of the two. Wasowski is not as good here as he is with the Mazurkas, but he's still among the better ones that I have heard. Like you, I enjoy Ashkenazy's, but find that others bring more to these works.
The one set of Nocturne's that I decidedly didn't like was Barenboim's set on DG, which I would say took them too seriously. To my mind, they should be light, perhaps tinged with a bit of darkness, but not solemn.
Quote from: Scarpia on January 28, 2010, 12:08:17 PM
The one set of Nocturne's that I decidedly didn't like was Barenboim's set on DG, which I would say took them too seriously. To my mind, they should be light, perhaps tinged with a bit of darkness, but not solemn.
Yeah, I agree, solemn doesn't work here. I like my Nocturnes to be dark, mysterious - even sexy. 8)
Haven't heard the Barenboim set, though I almost picked it up a few times. I think over a dozen sets is enough, even though the Nocturnes are some of my favorite piano works, definitely desert island material.
To hear how great these pieces can be I think you have to listen to Cortot, especially in Op 27/1.
Also very good -- Sofronitsky, Pletnev, Ignaz Friedman, Leo Sirota and Claudio Arrau live .
No sets there, I am afraid.
Of the complete sets I know, the one which has given me most pleasure is Pollini's (maybe the best -- you can hear the Rubinstein influence but he is more dramatic and less detached than Rubinstein's post war recordings, and so for me superior.)
I also think there are many good things in Samson Francois's set.
Quote from: Mandryka on January 28, 2010, 01:35:26 PM
To hear how great these pieces can be I think you have to listen to Cortot, especially in Op 27/1.
Also very good -- Sofronitsky, Pletnev, Ignaz Friedman, Leo Sirota and Claudio Arrau live .
No sets there, I am afraid.
Of the complete sets I know, the one which has given me most pleasure is Pollini's (maybe the best -- you can hear the Rubinstein influence but he is more dramatic and less detached than Rubinstein's post war recordings, and so for me superior.)
I also think there are many good things in Samson Francois's set.
Wow, I didn't realize Pollini had done the Nocturnes, sound very very good in the brief excepts. :(
Quote from: George on January 28, 2010, 12:14:16 PM
Yeah, I agree, solemn doesn't work here. I like my Nocturnes to be dark, mysterious - even sexy. 8)
Haven't heard the Barenboim set, though I almost picked it up a few times. I think over a dozen sets is enough, even though the Nocturnes are some of my favorite piano works, definitely desert island material.
I was able to pick up the Complete Nocturnes by Pascal Amoyel and I was so glad that I did. It's definitely in the top tier. If you want sexy, night dark nocturnes, then these are definitely for you. They stand up against the best -- and I like them better than Pollini, as they are so much more sensual. I bought them from Amazon France, but they are also available as downloads from Amazon and Itunes, albeit with the wrong cover art.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/410TAYZD8DL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Quote from: Scarpia on January 28, 2010, 01:50:21 PM
Wow, I didn't realize Pollini had done the Nocturnes, sound very very good in the brief excepts. :(
You can still pick them up at Yourmusic.com for $13.98 (shipping included but tax if applicable is extra).
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513CK73C2DL._SS500_.jpg)
Quote from: Bunny on January 28, 2010, 01:51:10 PM
I was able to pick up the Complete Nocturnes by Pascal Amoyel and I was so glad that I did. It's definitely in the top tier. If you want sexy, night dark nocturnes, then these are definitely for you. They stand up against the best -- and I like them better than Pollini, as they are so much more sensual. I bought them from Amazon France, but they are also available as downloads from Amazon and Itunes,
Thanks Bunny! I'll keep an eye out for that set. Someone else (or was it you?) posted that set over on the Chopin thread.
Quote
albeit with the wrong cover art.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/410TAYZD8DL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
I know, right? He looks like the dude I bought weed from in high school. 8)
Quote from: George on January 28, 2010, 01:57:49 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/410TAYZD8DL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
I know, right? He looks like the dude I bought weed from in high school. 8)
Come to think of it, I think he is the dude you scored the weed from. ;)
OK, I haven't heard Amoyal or Tipo but I have heard Pollini, Arrau and Pires. I still go back to Moravec and Rubinstein in the Nocturnes for one very simple reason.
This is music that is so well composed that it doesn't require an interpreter. Pollini, Arrau and Pires tend to try and add things to the music that isn't there. Each in their own way try to add more rubato/play around with the tempo/look for phrasing that isn't anywhere in the music that Chopin wrote.
Both Moravec and Rubinstein play the music in a perfectly natural way and have a way with the phrasing that is so essentially Chopin. Moravec tends to the darker side of many of the Nocturnes compared to Rubinstein's warmer but still passionate approach. Ahskenazy also let's the music flow around it's own courses.
My only recommendations would be Ashkenazy, Moravec and Rubinstein - take your choice.
Quote from: Scarpia on January 28, 2010, 08:42:27 AM
The interesting thing about these works, in my view, is that atmosphere is more important than pyrotechnics.
I must agree here. For me, I confess a certain soft spot for Moravec's recording, and Ashkenazy is quite good. Over the past few years, Yukio Yokoyama's set has been growing one me. He tends to be somewhat superficial in his playing, and he tends to emphasize flash, but here his superificiality works, and he's a also a bit cool, and the flash is restrained. Curiously good. I'm still on the fence about Pollini.
Quote from: Scarpia on January 28, 2010, 12:08:17 PM
To my mind, they should be light, perhaps tinged with a bit of darkness, but not solemn.
It's interesting you say this, because the Arrau studio recording doesn't work for me in many instances, because it's too solemn and contrived. From Op 48 onwards this works better. Thee are a couple of live recordings (by Arrau) of single pieces that are just terrific.
I like Tipo (though again, not all of them). Pires is unbearable.
I like the various Rubinstein recorings, and I like the Moravec too.
Unfortunately I am not familiar with pre-war nocturne recordings by Cortot. As it happens I listened to two different Preludes cycles of Cortot's today, and I am again stunned by the kind of music this man makes.
Quote from: Herman on January 29, 2010, 08:46:25 AM
Unfortunately I am not familiar with pre-war nocturne recordings by Cortot.
Are there any?
Quote from: Herman on January 29, 2010, 08:46:25 AM
Unfortunately I am not familiar with pre-war nocturne recordings by Cortot.
They are available on Naxos, coupled with the Ballades.
QuoteAs it happens I listened to two different Preludes cycles of Cortot's today, and I am again stunned by the kind of music this man makes.
I absolutely agree.
Quote from: Herman on January 29, 2010, 08:46:25 AM
Unfortunately I am not familiar with pre-war nocturne recordings by Cortot. As it happens I listened to two different Preludes cycles of Cortot's today, and I am again stunned by the kind of music this man makes.
Glad you are enjoying Cortot's Chopin, Herman. Finally there's something we both like.
When I mentioned his nocturnes, I actually had the post war recordings in mind. Those on EMI mainly, but also there is an APR disc with some previously unreleased recordings of Opus 55/2. That APR disc is extremely valuable I think -- not just for the Chopin, but also because, I would say, it contains his best Kinderzenen .
Those recordings give the lie to the idea that Cortot was unable to produce great work after the war.
Quote from: Drasko on January 29, 2010, 08:54:48 AM
Are there any?
I think he only recorded Op 9/2 before the war.
Quote from: Scarpia on January 28, 2010, 08:42:27 AM
The interesting thing about these works, in my view, is that atmosphere is more important than pyrotechnics.
Of course, pyrotechnics is a bit of a loaded word, but I suspect we disagree very fundamentally.
For me, some of these works are very dramatic. Full of fireworks, in fact. That's what Cortot and Sofronitsky and Pollini bring.
Even Moravec finds fireworks in Op 27/1.
The Arrau studio set fails in this respect sometimes, most gravely in Op 62/1. But Arrau's live Op 62 /1 on Ermitage is full of intense drama -- and IMO is one of the most interesting nocturne performances on record.
Quote from: Holden on January 28, 2010, 11:37:04 PM
I still go back to Moravec and Rubinstein .
One too sentimental. The other too dry -- at least if you mean the post war recordings.
To me those two are extremes of different traditions of nocturne playing. You're lucky to be able to enjoy both.
Quote from: Mandryka on January 29, 2010, 09:53:46 AM
The Arrau studio set fails in this respect sometimes, most gravely in Op 62/1. But Arrau's live Op 62 /1 on Ermitage is full of intense drama -- and IMO is one of the most interesting nocturne performances on record.
QFT
Quote from: Herman on January 29, 2010, 08:46:25 AM
Unfortunately I am not familiar with pre-war nocturne recordings by Cortot.
Quote from: Drasko on January 29, 2010, 08:54:48 AM
Are there any?
I found this on Naxos's website, but can't view the PDF (rear of CD) that shows the details about the Nocturnes within. http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.111245 I am at work or could just read it off the CD. Can someone view the PDF and post the details about the years of those Nocturne performances?
Quote from: George on January 29, 2010, 10:09:35 AM
I found this on Naxos's website, but can't view the PDF (rear of CD) that shows the details about the Nocturnes within. http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.111245 I am at work or could just read it off the CD. Can someone view the PDF and post the details about the years of those Nocturne performances?
It says that the only pre-war nocturne is Op 9/2.
This seems to be a good Cortot discography :
http://fischer.hosting.paran.com/music/Cortot/discography-cortot.htm#Nocturnes
I generally try to avoid using the word 'hysterical' in connection with women, but that's the impression I got. I had the set for a year and then dumped it. To me it sounded like she took the concept 'operatic' but left out the critical 'bel canto' part.
Quote from: Herman on January 30, 2010, 04:32:57 AM
I generally try to avoid using the word 'hysterical' in connection with women, but that's the impression I got. I had the set for a year and then dumped it. To me it sounded like she took the concept 'operatic' but left out the critical 'bel canto' part.
Ok, now we know that someone was hysterical, but we don't know who. ???
Pires fits the description closest.
Quote from: Herman on January 30, 2010, 04:32:57 AM
I generally try to avoid using the word 'hysterical' in connection with women, but that's the impression I got. I had the set for a year and then dumped it. To me it sounded like she took the concept 'operatic' but left out the critical 'bel canto' part.
Listen to the purity and clarity of Livia Rév's singing tone, and maybe you will love them girlz again. ;D
Quote from: Drasko on January 30, 2010, 07:02:45 AM
Pires fits the description closest.
Maria Joao Pires made an excellent DG recording on Nocturnes. I have played the set a number of times since I bought it a few months ago. I just wonder when Helene Grimaud will try her hands on these works ...
Thought that I'd like to join this thread - :D
Moravec has been a favorite of mine for a number of years, but I certainly need to try others (and have culled out several collections in the past).
Earl Wild is my most recent addition - owned nothing by him until his recent death stimulated my interest - also have his Piano Transcriptions coming 'in the mail', which was the recipient of a Grammy Award in 1997. So, any comments on this performance - so far, I'm enjoying his playing and interpretations of the Chopin works, rather subdued and nocturnal (like him rowing the canoe in the 'corny' cover art). :)
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/ChopinEarlWild/767495539_SzKPj-O.jpg)
Quote from: Coopmv on January 30, 2010, 07:29:09 AM
Maria Joao Pires made an excellent DG recording on Nocturnes. I have played the set a number of times since I bought it a few months ago. I just wonder when Helene Grimaud will try her hands on these works ...
So you think Pires is female, Grimaud is too, so she ought to record the same stuff? That's subtle.
As I tried to explain above, after listening to "the set a number of times" I thought the Pires recording of the Nocturnes is problematic and is not up to the competition. However I'm glad if you think it's "excellent,' so Pires' effort has not been totally in vain.
Grimaud, not exactly known for her Chopin, might up the hysterics (and loud) ante, indeed. Let's hope she bides her time, though.
One old fashioned pianist who I feel rather ambivalent about in these nocturnes is Leopold Godowsky.
I think that there is a very special, rather disarming, straightforwardness and purity about the approach.
What I am not convinced about is that there's enough variety in his style. I always start out by being excited about his nocturnes, but after two or three, I start to grow bored.
But that's maybe a bit philistine -- Godowsky's nocturnes are worth exploring I think.
BTW, I also played some by Wasowsky -- too sentimental for me, I'm afraid.
Being a Chopin year, there are going to be new recordings of the Nocturnes, and it looks like Yundi Li moved over to EMI and recorded them. The set will be out in April. Of more interest for me, Nelson Freire has also recorded them, and that set will be out in March.
Quote from: Todd on February 11, 2010, 12:12:01 PM
Being a Chopin year, there are going to be new recordings of the Nocturnes, and it looks like Yundi Li moved over to EMI and recorded them. The set will be out in April. Of more interest for me, Nelson Freire has also recorded them, and that set will be out in March.
Yes, that Freire set should be nice.
An extremely underrated set is Elisabeth Leonskaja's on Teldec, her handling of the transitions from the gentler passages to the stormier ones is quite remarkable.
(http://www.hbdirect.com/coverm/66/511966.jpg)
After owning and thoroughly enjoying a copy of this set for a few years, I finally found a legit copy to buy.
What is the preferred (i.e. best) set of these pieces? Arrau on Philips, Rubinstein on Naxos or the Moravec on Nonesuch? Or any others that you might like? Your musical and audio (sound) reasons please? Thanks.
Quote from: MichaelRabin on March 30, 2010, 06:20:12 AM
What is the preferred (i.e. best) set of these pieces? Arrau on Philips, Rubinstein on Naxos or the Moravec on Nonesuch?
Yes. ;D
Quote
Or any others that you might like? Your musical and audio (sound) reasons please? Thanks.
Arrau remains my favorite. His indulgent, syrupy readings delight me every time I hear them. The sound is very good too. I should add that Arrau though veryhighly of the Nocturnes and it shows in his interpretations.
I was getting major Deja vu, then I realized (duh) I had started the recent thread myself. You will find discussion related to your query here:
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,15721.0.html
It's impossible to answer the question.
You can play these pieces in so many different ways.
I think it would be foolish to say that Weissenberg is better than Rubinstein, or that Rubinstein is better than Samson François, or that Samson François is better than Pollini.
These are all highly musical, well recorded, personal, intense performances. Despite their differences, none of them can be excluded for fundamental reasons.
They are incommensurables – and others would no doubt add others to the list.
All Weissenberg, Rubinstein, François, Pollini et al. have in common is a score to respond to – a score which profoundly underdetermines the performance.
My best advice is to listen to a selection of each of the above on youtube, see which tickles your fancy, and buy the CDs.
Alternatively say more about what you are looking for in terms of style – dreamy romantic, dramatic, objective, sentimental . . . and maybe someone can make some suggestions.
Quote from: Mandryka on March 30, 2010, 08:10:17 AM
Alternatively say more about what you are looking for in terms of style – dreamy romantic, dramatic, objective, sentimental . . . and maybe someone can make some suggestions.
Freudian slip? ;D
BTW, thanks very much for your post. I consider myself grateful to be able to correspond with such an open minded, mature individual.
Quote from: Mandryka on March 30, 2010, 08:10:17 AM
Alternatively say more about what you are looking for in terms of style – dreamy romantic, dramatic, objective, sentimental . . . and maybe someone can make some suggestions.
I would say that it is highly unsatisfactory to play all of the nocturnes in the same style, whatever that may be. For instance there is a world of difference between the light and frisky Op55.1 and the expansive but occasionally dreamy Op55.2. I would expect a good pianist to bring out these differences.
Two new sets on the market:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51LcbXjCPXL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41a5xK%2Bof6L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
I listened to samples of Chaplin. I don't like, it lacks depth and is quite monotone, although it has that typical atmosphere that suites the Nocturnes. It sound to me a bit of a bad copy of Arrau's version.
The recording by Perez is imo great. It's a modern interpretation, very elegant and has depth. I prefer it even above Arrau. I prefer more light interpretations, without losing depth.
Henk
QuoteThe recording by Perez is imo great. It's a modern interpretation, very elegant and has depth. I prefer it even above Arrau. I prefer more light interpretations, without losing depth.
Good to hear, have to investigate. Thanks.
Quote from: Henk on August 29, 2010, 09:41:03 AM
Two new sets on the market:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51LcbXjCPXL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
I listened to samples of Chaplin. I don't like, it lacks depth and is quite monotone, although it has that typical atmosphere that suites the Nocturnes. It sound to me a bit of a bad copy of Arrau's version.
The recording by Perez is imo great. It's a modern interpretation, very elegant and has depth. I prefer it even above Arrau. I prefer more light interpretations, without losing depth.
Henk
Hi,
Henk. I don't know that new version by Luis Fernando Pérez (incomplete, apparently), but some weeks ago I bought and listened to François Chaplin, almost by chance because I was searching his Debussy set, which has been highly praised in the past.
IMO his Chopin is a highly rewarding interpretation, quite on the slow side, as you have observed. My only quibble about it is the closely miked recorded sound and some excessive basses on the Yamaha piano used there; but I liked Chaplin's general conception/sensibility and the order in which the Nocturnes are presented.
Anyway, I prefer not to compare his version with Arrau, my absolute favorite in the Nocturnes.
Here a video on YouTube for the people interested in Chaplin:
http://www.youtube.com/v/pLcgQBIDvII
EDIT
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on August 29, 2010, 10:26:45 AM
Hi, Henk. I don't know that new version by Luis Fernando Pérez (incomplete, apparently), but some weeks ago I bought and listened to François Chaplin, almost by chance because I was searching his Debussy set, which has been highly praised in the past.
IMO his Chopin is a highly rewarding interpretation, quite on the slow side, as you have observed. My only quibble about it is the closely miked recorded sound and some excessive basses on the Yamaha piano used there; but I liked Chaplin's general conception/sensibility and the order in which the Nocturnes are presented.
Anyway, I would prefer don't compare his version with Arrau, my absolute favorite in the Nocturnes.
Here a video on YouTube for the people interested in Chaplin:
http://www.youtube.com/v/pLcgQBIDvII
Antoine, I checked the video. I'm still not impressed. It lacks depth for me, despite (not because of) the slowness. Maybe just a matter of taste. Also I don't prefer slow performances, because it quickly sounds too serious to me.
The comparison with Arrau can not be made, I agree. But why playing so slow and serious, that doesn't serve the music. It seems to me that performers who do so, think that the best interpretation can only be the most serious interpretation. To say it blandly: Chaplin wants to overpower other versions of the Nocturnes. But with Chaplin's version the Nocturnes become a monotone mass of music.
The recording by Perez is Vol. I.
Henk
Quote from: Henk on August 29, 2010, 10:39:23 AM
Maybe just a matter of taste.
Of course! As the vast majority of our discussions on this board. :)
Quote from: Henk on August 29, 2010, 10:39:23 AM
EDIT
Antoine, I checked the video. I'm still not impressed. It lacks depth for me, despite (not because of) the slowness. Maybe just a matter of taste. Also I don't prefer slow performances, because it quickly sounds too serious to me.
Hello? Why do you call this "slow"? It isn't slow at all, by any standards I know. Certainly Arrau would be slow in comparison.
One could say that Chaplin's toucher (or whatever) isn't particularly subtle, although the hall acoustics and the recording device may play a part in this, but as far as tempo is concerned it is positively on the nimble side.
Quote from: Herman on August 30, 2010, 12:16:03 AM
Hello? Why do you call this "slow"? It isn't slow at all, by any standards I know. Certainly Arrau would be slow in comparison.
One could say that Chaplin's toucher (or whatever) isn't particularly subtle, although the hall acoustics and the recording device may play a part in this, but as far as tempo is concerned it is positively on the nimble side.
You are being generous Herman. There is a natural flow that all great Chopin interpreters achieve when playing this composer. I don't hear or feel the flow from Chaplin, It's extremely ordinary playing IMO.
Quote from: Holden on August 30, 2010, 01:14:30 AM
You are being generous Herman. There is a natural flow that all great Chopin interpreters achieve when playing this composer. I don't hear or feel the flow from Chaplin, It's extremely ordinary playing IMO.
I disagree with you, but I am probably "biased" by the repeated listen of the complete set. Anyway, here a very favorable review on Fanfare:
Quote
CHOPIN Nocturnes • François Chaplin (pn) • ZIG-ZAG 100203.2 (2 CDs: 110:58)
François Chaplin is a pianist who is new to me, although he has been recording for more than a decade. He is a professor at the Conservatoire de Rayonnement Régional in Versailles. His most prominent teacher was the estimable Jean-Claude Pennetier. Chaplin won prizes in two prominent piano competitions, but there has been no breakthrough event along his path leading to a major career. Rather, he is one of those pianists who has slowly built up esteem, especially through recordings. One such project was the complete piano music of Debussy, which seems like superb preparation for tackling Chopin's nocturnes, so similar are their sonic orbits. On the basis of this Chopin album, I would say that Chaplin has reached an artistic peak.
Chaplin possesses a rich, full tone, which he deploys with a great deal of subtlety. On the surface, his readings of the nocturnes remind me of Claudio Arrau's in their tonal sumptuousness. This aspect of the recording is enhanced by the use of a beautiful Yamaha piano, spaciously recorded in a Paris church. The Yamaha produces a gorgeous tonal blend throughout its frequency range, captured truthfully by the recorded sound. Chaplin's feeling for the architecture of the nocturnes is profound. In the ternary pieces, one never has the sense that any section is out of proportion to the others. Here is highly sophisticated playing, yet the overall interpretive effect is to produce readings that are central in the works' performance traditions. Nothing exotic happens, yet to paraphrase Charles Rosen, Chaplin accomplishes everything while appearing not to do anything remarkable at all.
Chaplin has decided not to play the nocturnes in their published order. He keeps sets of the nocturnes together by opus number, but otherwise he arranges them, in his words, "to emphasize the diversity and modernity of the nocturnes." I find his ordering highly successful. Chaplin starts with op. 48/1, choosing a slow and stately tempo for the beginning with a pronounced bass. The B section has suitable grandeur. In op. 15/1, Chaplin's pedaling gives the A section an angelic quality. For op. 15/3, he employs subtle hesitations in his phrasing of the opening melody, giving it the rhythmic feel of a mazurka. Op. 27/2 receives a ravishing, inward performance. The darkness of the three posthumous nocturnes is mirrored in Chaplin's tonal shadings. Op. 32/2, as befits a selection from Les Sylphides, comes off as an ethereal yet passionate dance.
Op. 55/2 has a harp-like accompaniment in the left hand, accentuated tonally by a judicious use of pedal. Op. 37/1 has an unusually Polish aura, especially in the handling of its ornamentation. The delicacy in the performance of op. 9/1 reminds me of Guiomar Novaes's interpretation. The program ends with op. 62, presumably Chopin's last nocturnes. Here, in Chaplin's words, "the accommodation of the bel canto spirit to the keyboard reaches a fabulous peak." Indeed, op. 62/1 unfolds in large part like a long aria. Op. 62/2 has an almost orchestral variety of color.
I found this recording improved in power and nuance on each repeated hearing. With sets of the nocturnes available from such great figures as Rubinstein and Arrau, it may seem presumptuous to recommend a set by someone with the comparatively low profile of François Chaplin. Yet I think I honestly can say that I rarely have enjoyed these pieces so much, while the sound engineering is something to rejoice in. Clearly we need to hear more from François Chaplin, so compelling is his artistry.
FANFARE: Dave Saemann
Michele Boegner's performances on an 1836 Pleyel piano is apparently being offered now as a 2-CD 'discount' package by Calliope (found the image below of their website) - not sure about the pricing or the availability at the moment; I've listened to a number of audio snippets and several complete tracks - a favorite of Brian who brought my attention to this offering a while back.
So, if anyone knows of a seller or source then please respond - Calliope does not seem to offer a purchase option on their website HERE (http://www.calliope.tm.fr/pages/catalogue/catalogue_oeuvre.php?id=3534) - :)
(http://www.calliope.tm.fr/_upload/ressources/disques/3281.2.jpg)
Hi Dave!
According to French amazon, looks like that set was released 5 years ago, but currently unavailable:
http://www.amazon.fr/Int%C3%A9grale-Nocturnes-Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric-Mich%C3%A8le-Boegner/dp/B0007OQBYI/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1283192478&sr=8-5
No listing at MDT. :-\
Quote from: George on August 30, 2010, 10:24:18 AM
Hi Dave!
According to French amazon, looks like that set was released 5 years ago, but currently unavailable:
http://www.amazon.fr/Int%C3%A9grale-Nocturnes-Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric-Mich%C3%A8le-Boegner/dp/B0007OQBYI/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1283192478&sr=8-5
No listing at MDT. :-\
Hello
George - thanks for the information above; suspect the set is just OOP; I checked a half dozen sites this morning, both in the USA & across the pond - just found the older release for $68 on Amazon USA.
Well, will keep on my 'wish list' - also sent Calliope an e-mail about availability but have no idea yet if I'll get a response - Dave :)
Quote from: Henk on August 29, 2010, 09:41:03 AM
Two new sets on the market:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51LcbXjCPXL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41a5xK%2Bof6L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
I listened to samples of Chaplin. I don't like, it lacks depth and is quite monotone, although it has that typical atmosphere that suites the Nocturnes. It sound to me a bit of a bad copy of Arrau's version.
The recording by Perez is imo great. It's a modern interpretation, very elegant and has depth. I prefer it even above Arrau. I prefer more light interpretations, without losing depth.
Henk
Just downloaded the Perez from emusic - beautiful!!
Just left a post in the 'listening thread' - enthralled w/ the recording below - could not find the original offerings from Calliope for a decent price; the piano sound is different from a modern grand - apparently the key action was dependent on complete release of the key to repeat a note, plus the 'liner notes' said that Chopin felt that the pedal response was quite sensitive (although he seem to prefer the Pleyel pianos when in 'good form' - from the liner notes which were also scanned in this offering). Dave :)
QuoteChopin - Nocturnes played by Michele Boegner on an original 1836 Pleyel piano restored by Anthony Sidey of Paris - an applauded recommendation from Brian - I've been trying to purchase the original CDs w/o success, so was able (w/ the help of one of my radiology residents) to obtain a MP3 disc (320 kbps) of these recordings - such a nice contrast to the versions I own on 'modern' piano - need to do some comparisons; the sound production is a little 'noisy' probably due in part to the piano (pedal, soundboard, etc.) and possibly the engineering - not sure 'where' these were recorded but there is a low rumbling sound on the tracks - this is a privately owned piano, so the location may not have been ideal (liner notes were available but of little help) - :D
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/ChopinBoegner1/998361071_TiwW5-O.jpg)
Quote from: Henk on August 29, 2010, 09:41:03 AM(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51LcbXjCPXL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
I love this one, it's rather dark sounding (I'm not a piano expert, so my question is, is it because he uses the pedals more? Or is it the piano?) which goes pretty well with the nocturnes - but HE IS HUMMING pretty often, which is disturbing.
Except Chopin Nocturnes, I'm not knowing anything else in the piano genre btw.
Chopin's Nocturnes are certainly among the most beautiful piano pieces I've ever heard; extremetely elegant, refined music which at the same time is so passionate and intense, with a poetical touch of melancholy. My favourite set is the Ashkenazy; after that, the Rubinstein, the Barenboim and the Pollini. Besides showing a wonderful technique and an excellent virtuosity, Ashkenazy really seems to be able to capture the deep mood of these works, the atmosphere he creates is absolutely thrilling.
BOY! A tread revived after 2 years w/ the last post left by me on a fortepiano recording that received NO responses?
BUT, my current modern versions are w/ Moravec & Ohlsson (in a complete box) - have always enjoyed the Moravec - really like these Chopin compositions; however, for those who want some historic perspective, please explore John Field's Nocturnes which likely influenced Chopin's composing in this genre - :)
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-CBrH6ch/0/O/ChopinNoctures.jpg) (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-TpbmVwD/0/O/Chopin-Ohlsson.jpg)
I urge you not to make any bold statements before you listen to Nelson Freire's Nocturnes. Simply amazing...
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6uRxtIh3K3Q/TwfcPVVxOJI/AAAAAAAAJnE/kSwA5-TWBx0/s1600/Nelson+Freire+-+Chopin+-+The+Nocturnes+%25282010%2529.jpg)
I was listening to the Nocturnes from this on Spotify and was quite impressed with the approach and the playing. As per my original post in this thread, I don't like Nocturne recordings that put things into the music that aren't there. I can usually tell how a pianist is going to play the Nocturnes from the first two bars of the music.
Stefan Askenase adopts a simple unfussy approach that gets to the essence of the music. While Moravec and Rubinstein rate as tops for me this goes slightly below them alongside Ashkenazy and is well worth listening to.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Lhz5OqZ4L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
Quote from: johndoe21ro on September 23, 2012, 10:22:24 PM
I urge you not to make any bold statements before you listen to Nelson Freire's Nocturnes. Simply amazing...
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6uRxtIh3K3Q/TwfcPVVxOJI/AAAAAAAAJnE/kSwA5-TWBx0/s1600/Nelson+Freire+-+Chopin+-+The+Nocturnes+%25282010%2529.jpg)
Any seconds on this? i liked his Liszt recital.
Quote from: snyprrr on February 05, 2014, 11:28:17 AMAny seconds on this? i liked his Liszt recital.
I wanted to like it as much as his Liszt disc, if that counts.
Quote from: snyprrr on February 05, 2014, 11:28:17 AM
Any seconds on this?
Been a long-time fan of the nocturnes and could've sworn I've written about them many times on this board. No knowledge of this thread, though. Anyway, yeah I like Freire's nocturnes very much (along with Moravec's and Arrau's).
Quote from: snyprrr on February 05, 2014, 11:28:17 AM
Any seconds on this? i liked his Liszt recital.
Definite thumbs up from me. Only Nocturnes I like better* is Rubinstein.
*of the ones I've heard, which is of course merely a small portion of the universe of Nocturnes recordings
Now that I'm visiting Rev's account, I can never get enough of listening to Chopin's nocturnes. One should own at least a dozen recordings. My favorites are Arrau, Freire, Magaloff, Moravec, Pires, Rev and Wild
There's a discussion half way through this thread which made me think. It's about flow, and Holden says something like in good players of notcturnes there's a natural flow.
What made me pause for thought is this - when I listen to van Oort play Chopin, or Michel Boegner, it doesn't flow anything like the way it does when Cortot or Sofronitsky or Pletnev play. The nature of the instrument, percussive, less ressonant, makes for less seemless articulation and shorter phrases. I don't think their performances are any less satisfying for being more choppy, on the contrary, though I'm not a piano teacher. What makes Sofronitsky a great player of nocturnes, or Cortot, isn't mainly about articulation, that would be absurd.
So I wonder about this flow, whether it's really just a consequence of tastes formed by overexposure to Steinways and other modern pianos. Rather than somethng essential to what Chopin was about. What he was trying to do when he wrote music seems quite an interesting question. Whatever the answer, he certainly wasn't writing for a modern grand.
I remember someone telling me that they're only nocturnes, you just put them on and let them wash over you and relax you. Well, I don't feel that.
I feel that many pianists ruin the "flow" of the Nocturnes" by the excessive use of rubato. This tenet can be applied to any Chopin work but the Nocturnes exacerbate the issue. It's one of the reasons that I like Rubinstein and Moravec.
Quote from: Holden on April 21, 2014, 11:21:38 AM
I feel that many pianists ruin the "flow" of the Nocturnes" by the excessive use of rubato. This tenet can be applied to any Chopin work but the Nocturnes exacerbate the issue.
I feel the same way, too. I can't stand soloists' "expressiveness" via sudden tempo changes or improvised rests in classical era style, too.
Has anybody heard Luiz de Moura Castro? MusicWeb is asking me to review his nocturne set.
Quote from: Brian on September 02, 2014, 06:46:52 AMHas anybody heard Luiz de Moura Castro? MusicWeb is asking me to review his nocturne set.
I've never seen the name before. Jump at the chance to review it. Worst case, it's mediocre. Best case, it's a hidden gem.
Quote from: Todd on September 02, 2014, 06:54:07 AM
I've never seen the name before. Jump at the chance to review it. Worst case, it's mediocre. Best case, it's a hidden gem.
Sent in my request for it. Moura Castro is apparently 70+ years old and has had a productive relationship with the record label Ensayo (Esteban Sanchez's), doing recitals of music from Brazil, Cuba, and Argentina. I might try one of those albums streaming and report on it in the listening thread.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51DxENvM%2BgL._SS425.jpg)
[Cross-posted with WAYLTN thread.]
Second listen. This was the last thing I listened to yesterday, too. For the first listen, I did something I have not done in many years: I listened to all of the Nocturnes in one sitting. Huangci's playing is outstanding throughout. She tends not to dawdle, and in only a few instances does she play in a manner that might be considered to be pushing things. The faster portions of 15/1 may be too hasty for some, and 37/2 sounds very Mazurka-y at the beginning, while the trills in 62/1 sound a bit excited. In no case, though, is the overall effect ruined. The set even includes a nice little encore of the Etude 25/7 with Tristan Cornut on cello. Huangci's dexterity, clarity (or occasional purposeful lack thereof), dynamic shading, and tonal variety are superb. Sonics for the 24/96 files are superb, and I suspect that 16/44.1 sounds essentially identical.
I hope Huangci doesn't dawdle when it comes to making new recordings, and I hope she manages to make it here for a proper recital or concert soon. She played in Spokane a couple months back. Spokane! Aside from being the birthplace of Thomas Hampson, what has that town done for classical music? Worst case, I'll make the dreadful seven hour drive to hear her if she plays there again.
Says here on Huangci's site;
Claire Huangci proves herself to be a vividly expressive interpreter of Chopin, the first since Artur Rubinstein to offer a complete cycle of the Nocturnes by Frédéric Chopin.
Is that right?
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on June 10, 2017, 05:15:41 AM
Says here on Huangci's site;
Claire Huangci proves herself to be a vividly expressive interpreter of Chopin, the first since Artur Rubinstein to offer a complete cycle of the Nocturnes by Frédéric Chopin.
Is that right?
I don't think so. As far as I know Rubinstein didn't record the nocturne oublié.
Quote from: Mandryka on June 10, 2017, 05:35:35 AM
I don't think so. As far as I know Rubinstein didn't record the nocturne oublié.
I just scanned my entire collection and the only version I have of the Nocturne Oublié is Huangci's. It does not appear in the Rubinstein big-box.
Pires' recording has two opus posthumum Nocturnes in c sharp minor and c minor. The c sharp minor is the "oubliée", isn't it?
Rubinstein did not record it, but I don't think Pires was the only one before Huangci who did.
The C Sharp Minor Nocturne is usually labelled as Number 20 (and is in the Pires set), and is distinct from the Nocturne Oublie.
It's disgraceful that on Huangci's recording they write Nocturne Oubliée!
(Mind you I had to check the gender of nocturne, and was surprised.)
What is this forgotten nocturne? Who wrote it? When was it discovered?
Quote from: Mandryka on June 10, 2017, 01:03:11 PM
It's disgraceful that on Huangci's recording they write Nocturne Oubliée!
(Mind you I had to check the gender of nocturne, and was surprised.)
What is this forgotten nocturne? Who wrote it? When was it discovered?
My question as well.
Rubinstein did not do the two posthumous Nocturnes (nor the posthumous waltzes, I believe). I think he justified that as honoring the composer's intentions.
There's some discussion of it here
http://www.pianomajeur.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6277&start=0
I agree with the general feeling in that discussion that, whoever wrote it, it's a nice enough bit of music.
The score is here, I have no idea if this is the only score
https://henseltlibrary.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/chopin-nocturneoubliee.pdf
There's zero discussion of it in Huangci's liner notes, she's more interested in other types of things, poetry, and just passes it off, slips it in, as pukka Chopin without so much as a by your leave. I don't think she's a scholar-musician.
Quote from: Mandryka on March 30, 2010, 08:10:17 AM
It's impossible to answer the question.
You can play these pieces in so many different ways.
I think it would be foolish to say that Weissenberg is better than Rubinstein, or that Rubinstein is better than Samson François, or that Samson François is better than Pollini.
These are all highly musical, well recorded, personal, intense performances. Despite their differences, none of them can be excluded for fundamental reasons.
They are incommensurables – and others would no doubt add others to the list.
All Weissenberg, Rubinstein, François, Pollini et al. have in common is a score to respond to – a score which profoundly underdetermines the performance.
My best advice is to listen to a selection of each of the above on youtube, see which tickles your fancy, and buy the CDs.
Alternatively say more about what you are looking for in terms of style – dreamy romantic, dramatic, objective, sentimental . . . and maybe someone can make some suggestions.
I'm coming fresh to the Nocturnes this very eve. I'm now using either 28/1, or the No.20posth.
1) I'm having trouble finding supernatural trilling in No.20 (I liked Wild)
I'm liking Moravec,...maybe Leonskaja,... Rev??anyone?,... Barenboim,No,..... Rubinstein- would like droolworthy sound,.... Fazil, eh?, not, or ya??,... Pires, nothing I could tell,.... Ashkenazy had a nice ambience,... Askenase's sound was a bit old,... I'm liking Wild, but there's no hall ambience, but he's good... Pletnev?... Ti Fong(?)CBS??... OhlssonEMI???,... Pollini I found 'unChopinesque',... Tzimon Barto????,... Oppitz....Weissenberg....pantpant....
I like an attenuating of the bang bang fortes , perhaps more of a 'feminine' approach, a Teldec/Philips type glorious piano sound,... I don't like the "pulling" rubato of some, but I do want -or, don't mind- a dreamstate quality (nicely proportioned dynamics). SOUND will have a lot to do with it (Nimbus prolly won't cut it,lol)
Is it too much to ask? :laugh:
Quote from: G. String on April 21, 2014, 02:14:43 AM
Now that I'm visiting Rev's account, I can never get enough of listening to Chopin's nocturnes. One should own at least a dozen recordings. My favorites are Arrau, Freire, Magaloff, Moravec, Pires, Rev and Wild
I want as mild as possible forte outbursts, as if one HAD to be a little quieter than usual,... I don't see why that should be a bad request. I'm listening to Wild's No.13 (c minor), and it's pretty extrovert. At least with Ashkenazy, the ambient hall absorbs any violence; with these closely mic'd versions, one has the 'dynamic range factor' at play, which, for me, is that "low playing=turn up; sudden outburst of loudness=panic jump, turn down; repeat" thing. You like Rev, eh?
Ricardo Castro
Roger Woodward
two new ones I saw...
Li Yundi- NO!! I want to like it, it's got great sound, but he just sounds too... too...
Samson- mm... eh... kinda loud?...
IS THERE AN OUTBURST IN EEEVERY NOCTURNE???
Well, I found a $5 copy of the Rev, don't know which release... her's is the only one I couldn't find on YT, and yet so many prefer - what I understand- is her Reserve. I'm trying to avoid masculine fortes, and judging by everyone's critiques, Rev is the most understated of the FrontRank. I think Gramophone criticized her for this, but agreed that others may feel differently.
I'll say goodnight to Chopin until the Rev comes 0:)
Love this thread, and got to explore so many interpretations of Op.9 No. 2, that I made a public Spotify playlist with most of the interpretations on this thread for easy listening.
Enjoy!
:-) neil
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/7uyjdD3JbdqdWVYPf6gk6B
Quote from: LX521.4 on March 19, 2021, 08:09:59 PM
Love this thread, and got to explore so many interpretations of Op.9 No. 2, that I made a public Spotify playlist with most of the interpretations on this thread for easy listening.
Enjoy! :-) neil https://open.spotify.com/playlist/7uyjdD3JbdqdWVYPf6gk6B
The
Nocturnes are probably my favorite
Chopin piano works and I've been buying and culling for decades; not sure how many sets I've owned over those years but now down to the five shown below - the oldest in my collection is Ivan Moravec (and still a favorite); the most recent is Claire Huangci, who has become another fav - Chopin wrote these nocturnes between 1827-1846 (Source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocturnes_(Chopin))) when the piano was still undergoing changes (introduction of better strings, cast iron frames, key actions, pedals, etc. - Link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano)); SO, I still enjoy the Michele Boegner performance on an 1836 Pleyel piano (although there are issues as described in a post of mine a few pages back in this thread).
Now is the chance for Chopin Nocturne fans to post of some of their 'current favorite recordings' for these works - I would love to hear a recording done on a reproduction piano from that era which likely would have better acoustics than that of Boegner, but I'm not aware of any newer ones? Could be wrong, of course. Dave :)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51veygMldBL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51oC-Zh6uYL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41DV07J0F0L.jpg)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51WjOLX9PNL._SY355_.jpg) (https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FwZdShOyZpU/WB5qFbfGUiI/AAAAAAAADVg/oUpV3FizgqUaC5b1IN42Cx4rRad8suvWACLcB/s400/Tapa.jpg)
Well, in my post above, I was asking about 'period instrument' Chopin performances and completely forgot to mention the 21-CD box called the Real Chopin - I tried to buy this package about 8 years ago from the Amazon MP but the dealer mis-represented the price which was about $36 USD - never came and my money was refunded. But PrestoClassical (https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/search?search_query=real%20chopin&size=10&view=large&page=2) appears to be offering the box and also a lot of single CDs; unfortunately, the Nocturnes seem to be split-up amongst three or so CDs mixed w/ other works - not ideal. Dave :)
ADDENDUM: Another website HERE (https://sklep.nifc.pl/?produkt=2_40&ustaw_walute=EUR&ustaw_walute=PLN&ustaw_walute=EUR) in Poland - the box is 100 Euros (or about $120 USD, plus shipping!).
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-tcTZzsc/0/309caf97/L/ChopinReal-L.png)
Ewa Pobłocka recorded them for some incarnation of The Real Chopin, honestly the pianos those guys use are so smoothed out by their restoration policy I don't know that you really hear much fresh and new compared with Rubinstein or whatever. Are you able to sample Luc Devos's two CDs?
Bart van Oort did the Nocturnes for Brilliant classics. So cheap, if still findable. Unfortunately? there was a first volume first, mixed with Field, and I think the second volume was also mixed with contemporaries and I don't know if there ever was a double with only the Chopin pieces. (I have that first mixed volume but cannot be more specific than that I apparently found it nice enough to keep...)
Quote from: LX521.4 on March 19, 2021, 08:09:59 PM
Love this thread, and got to explore so many interpretations of Op.9 No. 2, that I made a public Spotify playlist with most of the interpretations on this thread for easy listening.
Enjoy!
:-) neil
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/7uyjdD3JbdqdWVYPf6gk6B
Welcome to GMG. I met Siegfried Linkwitz and his wife at a show in DC years ago, they were lovely people :)
Quote from: Mandryka on March 21, 2021, 01:24:58 PM
Ewa Pobłocka recorded them for some incarnation of The Real Chopin, honestly the pianos those guys use are so smoothed out by their restoration policy I don't know that you really hear much fresh and new compared with Rubinstein or whatever. Are you able to sample Luc Devos's two CDs?
The Erards on those "The Real Chopin" series don't sound too dissimilar to other Erards I've heard on different labels. "The Real Chopin" do often have some additional ambience ranging from subtle to completely over the top that might make it hard to get a true feel for what the real life sound was like.
On the topic of this thread my favorites for the Nocturnes in no particular order are Claudio Arrau, Andrzej Wasowski, Pascal Amoyel, Ivan Moravec and Fou Ts'ong.
Quote from: LX521.4 on March 19, 2021, 08:09:59 PM
Love this thread, and got to explore so many interpretations of Op.9 No. 2, that I made a public Spotify playlist with most of the interpretations on this thread for easy listening.
Enjoy!
:-) neil
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/7uyjdD3JbdqdWVYPf6gk6B
Looks like you're a big Chopin and Linkwitz speaker fan. Welcome to the forum.
Quote from: Mandryka on March 21, 2021, 01:24:58 PM
Ewa Pobłocka recorded them for some incarnation of The Real Chopin, honestly the pianos those guys use are so smoothed out by their restoration policy I don't know that you really hear much fresh and new compared with Rubinstein or whatever. Are you able to sample Luc Devos's two CDs?
Hi
Mandryka - as mentioned before, I wish there were a 'new' recording using a reproduction period piano of the time rather than 'restored oldies' - thanks for mentioning Luc Devos - a disc is available on Amazon and both on PrestoClassical - also both can be previewed on Spotify which I'll do - however, the attached reviewed was rather negative relative to the period piano used although I suspect the reviewer is not a fan of this approach - will decide myself. Thanks again. Dave :)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on March 21, 2021, 07:48:18 PM
Hi Mandryka - as mentioned before, I wish there were a 'new' recording using a reproduction period piano of the time rather than 'restored oldies' - thanks for mentioning Luc Devos - a disc is available on Amazon and both on PrestoClassical - also both can be previewed on Spotify which I'll do - however, the attached reviewed was rather negative relative to the period piano used although I suspect the reviewer is not a fan of this approach - will decide myself. Thanks again. Dave :)
Totally worthless review by Howard Kornblum.
Quote from: Jo498 on March 21, 2021, 02:01:48 PM
Bart van Oort did the Nocturnes for Brilliant classics. So cheap, if still findable. Unfortunately? there was a first volume first, mixed with Field, and I think the second volume was also mixed with contemporaries and I don't know if there ever was a double with only the Chopin pieces. (I have that first mixed volume but cannot be more specific than that I apparently found it nice enough to keep...)
You probably mean this 4-disc box:
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Mar04/nocturnes.jpg)
The Art of the Nocturne in the Nineteenth Century
CD I: John Field: Nocturnes
Previously released as Columns Classics 0189 (Recording 1995)
CD II: Frédéric Chopin Nocturnes I
Previously released as Columns Classics 99155 (Recording 1998)
CD III: Frédéric Chopin Nocturnes II
(Recording 2003)
CD IV: 19th century Nocturnes
(Recording 2003)
Brilliant Classics 92202/1-2-3-4, December 2003.
Complete set re-released (2): Brilliant Classics 94048, 2010. 'Chopin. His Contemporaries and his instruments'. (6 cd box with 2 cds of contributions of various other pianists).
This Set features the complete Nocturnes by Chopin on two magnificent French pianos from Chopin's time and puts them in context with the nocturnes of Chopin's forerunner and example John Field - on a beautiful 1823 Broadwood) and by Chopin's contemporaries Pleyel, Kalkbrenner, Clara Schumann, Lefèbure-Wély, E. Weber, Alkan, Glinka, Szymanowska, Dobrzynski.MusicWeb review: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Mar04/nocturne.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Mar04/nocturne.htm)
Yes and there was also an earlier double with CDs I and II by Brilliant with the same cover. Which is what I have. So I was wrong/inexact insofar that there was not really a separate second volume but the second edition was a 4 disc set. According to my set the Field is played on the Broadwood, the Chopin on an 1842 Pleyel instrument. Very probably the larger sets are worthwhile for anyone interested in period instruments.
Quote from: Mandryka on March 22, 2021, 03:57:01 AM
Totally worthless review by Howard Kornblum.
Well, I agree completely - my feeling was that he was going to hate the recording even before a listen. This morning on Spotify, I was sampling Luc Devos' first Nocturnes disc (below far left) and one on Rewind (third one) which is the same recording; the second Devos recording (2nd image below) was not on Spotify - BUT, I found the 4-disc van Oort set and must say that I enjoyed all. Unfortunately, all of these offerings are difficult to find on CD, OOP, overpriced, or just not available - NOW, I've not done a thorough search so these may be hiding in the 'nooks & crannies' of the web and at reasonable prices - any suggestions appreciated. BTW, for those who do like reviews, attached are 3 discussing the van Oort 4-disc box (2 excellent and 1 somewhat dismissive).
P.S. I'm currently listening to the Nocturnes w/ Michele Boegner on a Pleyel Piano, 1836 - have this recording as a MP3 DL but not as bad as my previous comments a few pages back - maybe I should just be happy w/ her rendition?
(https://img.discogs.com/adx-sO0ACNx7clb7fRTD0BKM_GI=/fit-in/500x502/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-11311489-1513963867-7731.jpeg.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/412Y6PXERGL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41yge5L3cCL.jpg) (https://img.discogs.com/9ActQJ19qhx5kLXBmaYS6p8H-s0=/fit-in/600x617/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-5103610-1384596594-5875.jpeg.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on March 21, 2021, 10:13:58 AM
The Nocturnes are probably my favorite Chopin piano works and I've been buying and culling for decades; not sure how many sets I've owned over those years but now down to the five shown below - the oldest in my collection is Ivan Moravec (and still a favorite); the most recent is Claire Huangci, who has become another fav - Chopin wrote these nocturnes between 1827-1846 (Source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocturnes_(Chopin))) when the piano was still undergoing changes (introduction of better strings, cast iron frames, key actions, pedals, etc. - Link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano)); SO, I still enjoy the Michele Boegner performance on an 1836 Pleyel piano (although there are issues as described in a post of mine a few pages back in this thread).
Now is the chance for Chopin Nocturne fans to post of some of their 'current favorite recordings' for these works - I would love to hear a recording done on a reproduction piano from that era which likely would have better acoustics than that of Boegner, but I'm not aware of any newer ones? Could be wrong, of course. Dave :)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51veygMldBL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51oC-Zh6uYL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41DV07J0F0L.jpg)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51WjOLX9PNL._SY355_.jpg) (https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FwZdShOyZpU/WB5qFbfGUiI/AAAAAAAADVg/oUpV3FizgqUaC5b1IN42Cx4rRad8suvWACLcB/s400/Tapa.jpg)
Love that Moravec CD! Will have to give a think about other favorite Chopin Nocturnes.
PD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xx5VDoyRsM
Really enjoying Samson Francois's Nocturnes tonight. A kind soul ripped the whole set to youtube (link above.) I have the big Samson Integrale set on EMI.
Recently I enjoyed this very much
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81S6mnYgcyL._SL1500_.jpg)
Quote from: Florestan on July 29, 2022, 12:46:52 AM
Recently I enjoyed this very much
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81S6mnYgcyL._SL1500_.jpg)
Cheers
Florestan, I'm going to revisit this with my Saturday night listening after being able to read Jed Distler's review. He says some very interesting things about it.
"Hough consistently conveys a perfect balance of intelligence and instinct, as well as imagination without contrivance"Intriguing!
Quote from: hvbias on July 29, 2022, 09:07:28 AM
Cheers Florestan, I'm going to revisit this with my Saturday night listening after being able to read Jed Distler's review. He says some very interesting things about it.
"Hough consistently conveys a perfect balance of intelligence and instinct, as well as imagination without contrivance"
Intriguing!
I would review it in only two words:
sunny nocturnes --- if it makes any sense. :D
Quote from: Florestan on July 29, 2022, 12:46:52 AM
Recently I enjoyed this very much
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81S6mnYgcyL._SL1500_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/7164+VmsKeS._SL1200_.jpg)
Quote from: hvbias on July 29, 2022, 09:07:28 AM
Cheers Florestan, I'm going to revisit this with my Saturday night listening after being able to read Jed Distler's review. He says some very interesting things about it.
"Hough consistently conveys a perfect balance of intelligence and instinct, as well as imagination without contrivance" Intriguing!
Last year in one of the threads, I was considering a purchase of the Alain Planès recording on a Pleyel 1836 piano - re-listened on Spotify this morning and enjoyed - the piano sound is excellent, however, the reviews were mixed w/ several British mags giving only 3*/5* ratings (attached for those interested) - now the Stephen Hough recording piques my interest, of course on modern piano - the reviews (also included) have been uniformly excellent; already own a couple of MI versions (including Moravec, a fav for decades) but would like to hear Hough, unfortunately not available (a Hyperion thing w/ Spotify, I believe) - Dave :)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on July 29, 2022, 09:31:23 AM
would like to hear Hough, unfortunately not available (a Hyperion thing w/ Spotify, I believe) - Dave :)
YHM.
Quote from: SonicMan46 on July 29, 2022, 09:31:23 AM
Last year in one of the threads, I was considering a purchase of the Alain Planès recording on a Pleyel 1836 piano - re-listened on Spotify this morning and enjoyed - the piano sound is excellent, however, the reviews were mixed w/ several British mags giving only 3*/5* ratings (attached for those interested) - now the Stephen Hough recording piques my interest, of course on modern piano - the reviews (also included) have been uniformly excellent; already own a couple of MI versions (including Moravec, a fav for decades) but would like to hear Hough, unfortunately not available (a Hyperion thing w/ Spotify, I believe) - Dave :)
I might not have been in the mood to hear the Nocturnes, so a big YMMV with what I'm writing, I was not really all that taken with Planès, and the sound of his Pleyel sounds pretty bland compared to the color of Erards I've heard on record.
Hough is a very big contrast with Moravec - in fact much more the tempos you would expect from a HIP performance, but with as much poetry and lyrical sensitivity as any modern performer. What you get from his perspective is that if the nocturnes are played quickly, but still sensitively, the melodies are aria-like, singable, and "lyrical" in the literal sense of song lyrics. He definitely joins Moravec as co-favorite in my house. And his late Brahms CD shares all the same virtues.
I have the Planes. Maybe I'm too used to modern pianos in Chopin, but I found both the playing and the piano to be very meh.
Quote from: Brian on July 29, 2022, 11:11:06 AM
Hough... the melodies are aria-like, singable, and "lyrical" in the literal sense of song lyrics.
Yes. That's precisely why I like it.
Quote from: hvbias on July 29, 2022, 10:02:18 AM
I might not have been in the mood to hear the Nocturnes, so a big YMMV with what I'm writing, I was not really all that taken with Planès, and the sound of his Pleyel sounds pretty bland compared to the color of Erards I've heard on record.
Quote from: Brian on July 29, 2022, 11:11:06 AM
Hough is a very big contrast with Moravec - in fact much more the tempos you would expect from a HIP performance, but with as much poetry and lyrical sensitivity as any modern performer. What you get from his perspective is that if the nocturnes are played quickly, but still sensitively, the melodies are aria-like, singable, and "lyrical" in the literal sense of song lyrics. He definitely joins Moravec as co-favorite in my house. And his late Brahms CD shares all the same virtues.
Quote from: JBS on July 29, 2022, 11:18:09 AM
I have the Planes. Maybe I'm too used to modern pianos in Chopin, but I found both the playing and the piano to be very meh.
Well, I've been culling Chopin Nocturnes for decades; currently own the three sets below w/ Oort on a PI - never did buy the Planes probably for some of the reasons given above, comments in the reviews, and satisfaction w/ Bart's playing the 1837 Erard - this morning I ordered the Hough Chopin from BRO (https://www.broinc.com/media?s=chopin+hough) for $18 USD - enjoyed reading
Brian's comments, so expect to like. Dave :)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41DV07J0F0L.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51veygMldBL.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51BQF85EBBL.jpg)
The Nocturnes have always been my favorite piano works. I have collected sets of them for as long as I can remember. I am not a fan of period pianos and therefore only seek out recordings with modern pianos. I have been able to sample most of the sets released since Freire's for Decca in 2010, but didn't like any of them enough to consider buying.
My favorites, in order:
Arrau
Wasowski
Ciccolini
Moravec
Weissenberg
Freire
Pires
Rubinstein 1930s
Smeterlin
Francois
Tipo
I am just the opposite and really have enjoyed the "Real Chopin" series played on period pianos. This one of the nocturnes (Nokturny) is a favorite.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/619q97TqIhL._SS500_.jpg)
There is a dreamy, fragile, quality to these Erard pianos from the 1840s that I think perfectly suits the mood of the music. But of course Chopin sounds great no matter the piano. Purely a personal preference on my part.
Quote from: George on July 29, 2022, 12:44:51 PM
The Nocturnes have always been my favorite piano works. I have collected sets of them for as long as I can remember. I am not a fan of period pianos and therefore only seek out recordings with modern pianos. I have been able to sample most of the sets released since Freire's for Decca in 2010, but didn't like any of them enough to consider buying.
My favorites, in order:
Arrau
Wasowski
Ciccolini
Moravec
Weissenberg
Freire
Pires
Rubinstein 1930s
Smeterlin
Francois
Tipo
The Nocturnes are my favorite Chopin works.
Arrau is hard to beat as to authoritative and contemplative musicianship.
A kind friend gave me Tipo's recordings.They have some of the "dreamy" quality I appreciate.
Other than these I own Smeterlin but find him a bit earthbound compared to the other two despite brilliant playing.
Van Oort is maybe not perfect but remains my all round first choice. I love the sound of his period piano and the caressing way he treats it.
Quote from: (: premont :) on July 29, 2022, 02:23:46 PM
The Nocturnes are my favorite Chopin works.
Arrau is hard to beat as to authoritative and contemplative musicianship.
A kind friend gave me Tipo's recordings.They have some of the "dreamy" quality I appreciate.
Other than these I own Smeterlin but find him a bit earthbound compared to the other two despite brilliant playing.
Van Oort is maybe not perfect but remains my all round first choice. I love the sound of his period piano and the caressing way he treats it.
Took awhile for the Smeterlin to click, I owned it for years and listened to it for probably a half dozen times before it clicked. Still, 8 more than him and see his as an alternate take.
Can't find the Hough anywhere on line (that's Hyperion for you I suppose). Would love to have a listen though so hopefully someone will post them.
For me both Moravec and Rubinstein reign supreme for beautifully phrased and unfussy recordings. While I've heard some other good sets, none of them come close to these two. Everyone seems to say Arrau is up there but I'm afraid he just doesn't do it for me.
Search for "Hough Chopin Nocturnes" on Youtube, and you'll get some promo videos for the CD and, more importantly, some videos of Hough playing some Nocturnes in concert.
My attention was recently caught by the central section in this op 15/2
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ux9hQ6nhPU8
Quote from: Mandryka on July 29, 2022, 07:50:40 PM
My attention was recently caught by the central section in this op 15/2
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ux9hQ6nhPU8
It'd be fun to compile a set using unique versions by 21 different pianists, ideally ones who did not do a full set.
Through a bit of good fortune I've now got to listen to the Hough Nocturnes. They are simply exceptional. While I struggled initially to adapt to the tempo of Op 9/1 this laid the foundation for listening to the rest of them. Hough was locked down for a long while because of Covid and with not being tied down to meeting concert obligations used the time to explore music at his leisure. This is a bonus for us!
Quote from: Brian on July 29, 2022, 11:11:06 AM
Hough is a very big contrast with Moravec - in fact much more the tempos you would expect from a HIP performance, but with as much poetry and lyrical sensitivity as any modern performer. What you get from his perspective is that if the nocturnes are played quickly, but still sensitively, the melodies are aria-like, singable, and "lyrical" in the literal sense of song lyrics. He definitely joins Moravec as co-favorite in my house. And his late Brahms CD shares all the same virtues.
Quote from: Florestan on July 29, 2022, 11:32:46 AM
Yes. That's precisely why I like it.
This is exactly how I would describe Hough, there is a bel canto like quality to his interpretations, an almost singing line. His legato is also quite beautiful.
I do not hear them as sunny or happy, Hough more or less gets the darkness and light that is present in both the minor and major key pieces like most pianists. I think his playing is subtle, I can certainly appreciate his outstanding pianism, like in op 48/1 he downplays the left hand until the first climax which makes it stand out more.
For now this won't crack my favorites nor is it a set that like my favorites I can listen to discs all the way through but I am open to changing my mind about it. It's not uncommon for me to greatly enjoy works that I once didn't, though this is less common with performances. There is a lot with Hough to take in that warrants careful listening.
My general taste is for tempos more towards Arrau, Wasowski, and Amoyel (Paik is
too extreme for me).
Quote from: Holden on July 29, 2022, 05:21:54 PM
Can't find the Hough anywhere on line (that's Hyperion for you I suppose). Would love to have a listen though so hopefully someone will post them.
For me both Moravec and Rubinstein reign supreme for beautifully phrased and unfussy recordings. While I've heard some other good sets, none of them come close to these two. Everyone seems to say Arrau is up there but I'm afraid he just doesn't do it for me.
I hear many pianists as either being inspired or copying Arrau so in retrospect it can come off as a bit "generic." Like the late Beethoven sonatas, Liszt's Benediction (to this day among 10-20 I've heard only Arrau and Michel Block stand alone. Maybe FFG approaches them) or other works of similar quality I hear Arrau as something beyond.
I don't think I can find many generalities on Moravec either, other than as is the case with Moravec he plays with powerful rolling dynamics. And there are some of my favorite Nocturnes I have issue with, like in op. 37/1 Moravec breezes through the beautiful middle section; contrast this to Amoyel who has my favorite performance of it:
Moravec: https://youtu.be/HBjH6Ec6T_s
Amoyel: https://youtu.be/guEek1p11d4
Quote from: (: premont :) on July 29, 2022, 02:23:46 PM
Van Oort is maybe not perfect but remains my all round first choice. I love the sound of his period piano and the caressing way he treats it.
Have you heard Michèle Boegner? I like to have at least one PI recording of my favorite works. Alain Planès' interpretations were not particularly noteworthy and the instrument was tonally grey.
Quote from: hvbias on September 11, 2022, 05:44:13 AM
Have you heard Michèle Boegner? I like to have at least one PI recording of my favorite works. Alain Planès' interpretations were not particularly noteworthy and the instrument was tonally grey.
No, do you think I ought to investigate Boegner?
Quote from: hvbias on September 11, 2022, 05:44:13 AM
Have you heard Michèle Boegner? I like to have at least one PI recording of my favorite works. Alain Planès' interpretations were not particularly noteworthy and the instrument was tonally grey.
Quote from: (: premont :) on September 11, 2022, 01:18:31 PM
No, do you think I ought to investigate Boegner?
Own a Russian 'pirated' MP3 version (courtesy for a former radiology resident of mine - ;)) of Boergner on the 1836 Pleyel piano - I like the performance although the sound could be better (MP3 recording at fault?) - however, the Bart van Oort recordings are just fine to my ears if you want a fortepiano set in your collection. Dave :)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-gQPFtG5/0/338eea3e/O/Chopin_Boergner.png) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41C4baikxaL.jpg)
Quote from: (: premont :) on September 11, 2022, 01:18:31 PM
No, do you think I ought to investigate Boegner?
When I posted that I'd never heard Boegner, I was hoping you'd tell me so I could decide which one to listen to first ;D
Quote from: SonicMan46 on September 11, 2022, 02:11:38 PM
Own a Russian 'pirated' MP3 version (courtesy for a former radiology resident of mine - ;)) of Boergner on the 1836 Pleyel piano - I like the performance although the sound could be better (MP3 recording at fault?) - however, the Bart van Oort recordings are just fine to my ears if you want a fortepiano set in your collection. Dave :)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-gQPFtG5/0/338eea3e/O/Chopin_Boergner.png) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41C4baikxaL.jpg)
I'm able to hear Boegner as a perfectly ripped FLAC from CD. The recording quality sounds fine to me, the issue is the mechanical noises from the piano, not too dissimilar to Paul Badura-Skoda's Astree Beethoven cycle, presumably from the instruments not being maintained well. I'll post back what I think of Boegner and van Oort after I have a chance to get to know them more.
Quote from: Holden on April 21, 2014, 11:21:38 AM
I feel that many pianists ruin the "flow" of the Nocturnes" by the excessive use of rubato. This tenet can be applied to any Chopin work but the Nocturnes exacerbate the issue. It's one of the reasons that I like Rubinstein and Moravec.
Having recently enjoyed the Pollini set, I am curious what you think of it, Holden.
I invite others to listen to this and check out what he does at 3:53.
Quote from: George on February 25, 2024, 06:25:05 PM
I invite others to listen to this and check out what he does at 3:53.
It's a misjudgement on Pollini's part. He left it in the release so I guess that's what he really wanted.
I guess he wanted to differentiate the restatement of the theme from the way it's played at the beginning? It's not totally wrong, just...so arbitrary.
Quote from: Brian on March 01, 2024, 05:26:16 AMI guess he wanted to differentiate the restatement of the theme from the way it's played at the beginning? It's not totally wrong, just...so arbitrary.
I don't think it's wrong at all, I quite like it.
Of all the ways to differentiate a massive ugly sforzando is totally bad taste
Quote from: George on March 01, 2024, 05:36:17 AMI don't think it's wrong at all, I quite like it.
Correction - I LOVE it.
Quote from: George on March 01, 2024, 06:12:09 AMCorrection - I LOVE it.
I could see warming up to it over time. Looked up Jed Distler's review and he didn't even see fit to mention it.
Quote from: Brian on March 01, 2024, 06:15:49 AMI could see warming up to it over time. Looked up Jed Distler's review and he didn't even see fit to mention it.
That's because he didn't listen to the CD properly. You know what journalists are like.
Quote from: Brian on March 01, 2024, 06:15:49 AMI could see warming up to it over time. Looked up Jed Distler's review and he didn't even see fit to mention it.
I find that it is always nice to hear someone find a fresh way to present something in an old work.
A fortissimo statement of the theme at this point is exactly what Chopin calls for. Come on, guys, check the score and you'll see Pollini is scrupulously faithful to the written dynamics throughout.
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on March 01, 2024, 07:25:15 AMA fortissimo statement of the theme at this point is exactly what Chopin calls for. Come on, guys, check the score and you'll see Pollini is scrupulously faithful to the written dynamics throughout.
Well so much the worse for playing come è scritto
(https://i.ibb.co/4Szjg4Y/noct.jpg)
I found this video to be quite helpful and enlightening. The pianist first plays the nocturne and then talks about the work and Chopin and giving musical examples to demonstrate what he means.
Hadn't heard of the pianist before now, but you can read about him and his Chopin project here:
https://niemczuk.com/artist/biography
His name: Grzegorz Niemczuk
PD
Quote from: Mandryka on March 01, 2024, 07:50:34 AMWell so much the worse for playing come è scritto
(https://i.ibb.co/4Szjg4Y/noct.jpg)
Facts are stubborn things. ;D
Well I don't see why a little thing like a fact should get in the way of a good argument.
Quote from: Mandryka on March 01, 2024, 09:35:59 AMWell I don't see why a little thing like a fact should get in the way of a good argument.
:laugh:
PD
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on March 01, 2024, 07:25:15 AMA fortissimo statement of the theme at this point is exactly what Chopin calls for. Come on, guys, check the score and you'll see Pollini is scrupulously faithful to the written dynamics throughout.
If I had known that, I would have liked it from the start! ;D
Maybe it's a good reminder that Chopin was a classicist and the nocturnes should not always be played as if the pianist is a starving poet living in a Parisian garret.
Quote from: Brian on March 01, 2024, 09:45:41 AMIf I had known that, I would have liked it from the start! ;D
Maybe it's a good reminder that Chopin was a classicist and the nocturnes should not always be played as if the pianist is a starving poet living in a Parisian garret.
Oh, Boohème!
PD
Quote from: Brian on March 01, 2024, 09:45:41 AMIf I had known that, I would have liked it from the start! ;D
Maybe it's a good reminder that Chopin was a classicist and the nocturnes should not always be played as if the pianist is a starving poet living in a Parisian garret.
Well, Chopin was a poet of sorts, but he never starved and never lived in a garret. :)
Recent listen. Sokolovskaya is a perfumed, salon-feeling piano. Sensual and silky. Boganyi is diametrically opposed to Sokolovskaya. It is highly personal and Nietzschean. The music sounds like John Coltrane or Zen shakuhachi player.
(https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music/54/91/2e/mzi.pyxyrnkf.jpg/632x632bb.webp)
(https://i.discogs.com/nrk7vxC3jnUmU6o8c-pj5X0JlIq5hCPKtlCrJu7GuuU/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:598/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTE3NDI3/MTkzLTE2MTM0MDAx/NDQtODkzOC5qcGVn.jpeg)
(https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music116/v4/a2/57/b4/a257b496-6881-cf00-cc2c-7fcc50dd8b6c/685071020609.png/632x632bb.webp)
(https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music126/v4/90/55/f5/9055f5a1-e982-f817-ad1e-b7ea4493ee3c/4013357405127.png/632x632bb.webp)
Chopin's Nocturnes have been favorites of mine for years - recently, I purchased and over a week or so listened to the 21-disc box 'The Real Chopin' on period instruments - for those interested in this collection, the Nocturnes are on multiple discs but 14 of the 21 are recorded on the last CD by Dang Thai Son on an 1849 Erard fortepiano. Dave
(https://img.cdandlp.com/2014/05/imgL/116671825.jpg) (https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d00001e026e276168ebb478430a69146a)