All of a sudden I've got a fever for cascading, twinkling, monstrous snowstorms of piano notes. I was checking out Sciarrino's on YouTube, along with some Finnissy (though, there wasn't really that much choice here), I recently got that famous Pollini 20th Century Album, and the Stephen Hough Piano Albums. I'm sure Ligeti's Etudes can't be far behind.
Style is not the most important thing here, any Era will do, though I imagine most of the candidates will probably come from the 20th Century.
Of course, too much overbearing virtuosity can get annoying sometimes, so, other, less overt forms of virtuosity can be considered also (something like Boulez PS No.3).
Liszt?,...Busoni?,...Nancarrow?,...who takes the cake??
Hamelin's Kaleidoscope will surely satisfy this craving. It is an entire disc of encore-style miniatures by many different composers, including Hamelin himself.
;D
--Bruce
Boulez's Incises is my favourite virtuoso piano piece. I'd recommend the performance by Gianluca Cascioli on a DG disc. Cascioli was the winner of the competition for which Incises was written, and he recorded the original three-minute version (the piece has now been extended to 10 minutes and is plodding).
Alkan's op.39 set of etudes, his Symphony for Solo Piano, Symphony for Solo Piano, and Grande sonate: 'Les quatre âges' are among the most unbelievably virtuosic pieces in the repertoire.
Yeah, Hamelin should do it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/6utk2nFjpXA&feature=related
a couple of mainstream knuckle busters:
BALAKIREV Islamey RAVEL Gaspard de la Nuit
GODOWSKY all those Chopin Études transcribed for left hand solo...
Hamelin and Carlo Grante. Douglas Madge conveys too well their difficulty.
and REGER 5 Chopin transcriptions - Funf Spezialstudien für Pianoforte 1899 recorded by Fredrik Ullén on BIS 1083 (Got a Minute?) transcriptions on that waltz and other pieces.
The LISZT Totentanz for piano and orchestra is quite impressive in live performance. One of the variations requires wide glissandos up and down the keyboard. I remember a live televised broadcast where the piano had not been securely anchored and slowly crept away from the player with each assault. His Transcendental Études fit this category as well (inexpensive score published by Kalmus).
I'm glad you mentioned those 'standards'. Yes, it doesn't really matter hooow your knuckles are getting busted,... just that they are.
Hamelin,...yes!!
And thanks for mentioning Bach.
I was watching a YouTube performance of Skarbo that was pretty cool, with the overlapping hands. And there's a cool Takahashi/Xenakis.
MORE MORE!!!
The Three Etudes of Alkan are amazing. The three movements are for the left hand, right hand, and both hands together. You'd think it was for two hands, two hands and four hands! What is more amazing is that Hamelin recorded it LIVE! Available from Hyperion (Wigmore Hall Recital).
Well then, you should check out all the etudes from Godowsky's The Complete Studies on Chopin's Etudes. I always seem to end up going back and forth between the original and this, but they are truly amazing. Hamelin's is a great recording (if you want a complete cd).
Berezovsky has also recorded some of them, and I believe these may be available at youtube as well.
ok, so,... new question, then...
The consensus seems to be that total, overt virtuosity is the servent more of old fashioned type actual music, rather than post-war Avant Guarde? In the Avant, there is no real room for the kind of 'human' virtuosity,... so, I wonder, what is 'the' computer type sounding masterpiece? Something by Babbitt? Somehow, I don't think...
Godowsky does seem to be the winner here, so far. I was checking Hamelin's discography last night, and the Kaleidoscope album does look like a lot of fun.
You might like (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519VK59V0DL._SL500_AA300_.jpg).
Haven't heard Hamelin, but he ought to do a decent enough job...especially if he's loosened up first with a few drinks!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaPeks0H3_s
Hamelin is a boring pianist. He has enough chops to bring a lot of those compositions to life but its a sort of dull form of existence, a kind of un-life. Surely, there must be other virtuosos out there capable of playing those excruciatingly difficoult works without sounding completely two-dimensional in the process.
At any rate, i was listening to Sorabji lately and the only pianist i found that seemed to do his music justice is Jonathan Powell:
http://jonathanpowell.wordpress.com/
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on March 30, 2010, 07:46:36 AM
Hamelin is a boring pianist. He has enough chops to bring a lot of those compositions to life but its a sort of dull form of existence, a kind of un-life. Surely, there must be other virtuosos out there capable of playing those excruciatingly difficoult works without sounding completely two-dimensional in the process.
Maybe the works are two-dimensional. Nah. I've also thought him boring on occasion.
Quote from: MN Dave on March 30, 2010, 07:49:44 AM
Maybe the works are two-dimensional.
I thought that too, until i heard him play the music of Kapustin, which led me to discover the recordings issued by the actual composer. The difference was amazing.
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on March 30, 2010, 07:46:36 AMHamelin is a boring pianist. He has enough chops to bring a lot of those compositions to life but its a sort of dull form of existence, a kind of un-life. Surely, there must be other virtuosos out there capable of playing those excruciatingly difficoult works without sounding completely two-dimensional in the process.
I guess that settles it: proof (if such were possible), or at least compelling confirmation, that Hamelin must be among the least boring pianists on the planet!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do1NJL4SIwE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_6r4Nn9tXk
I rest my case.
Quote from: Greg on March 29, 2010, 05:51:58 PM
Yeah, Hamelin should do it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/6utk2nFjpXA&feature=related
That's really just a piano?? Some of those glisses sound out of this world, like a synth. This is on the
Kaleidoscope? Mind boggling,... the way the staves are just added on to the end,...wow :-\ :-\ :-\!!
Quote from: snyprrr on March 30, 2010, 11:26:25 AM
This is on the Kaleidoscope?
No, no...just one of the many Hamelin clips on YouTube. Great, isn't it!
--Bruce
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on March 30, 2010, 08:10:11 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do1NJL4SIwE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_6r4Nn9tXk
I rest my case.
Kapustin does sound fresher.
What about Cecil Taylor? I think he's the reason certain friends call Stockhausen/Boulez 'jazz'!! Honestly, if my fingers were faster I think I could do this kind of stuff. As it is, I can do a great impression of a tortured pianist playing Freudian tooth bashing, haha!
Quote from: bhodges on March 30, 2010, 11:29:14 AM
No, no...just one of the many Hamelin clips on YouTube. Great, isn't it!
--Bruce
So far, that takes the cake (walk), haha! Absolutely beyond belief. I haaave to see that 'live'.
Quote from: DavidRoss on March 30, 2010, 07:35:15 AM
You might like (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519VK59V0DL._SL500_AA300_.jpg).
Haven't heard Hamelin, but he ought to do a decent enough job...especially if he's loosened up first with a few drinks!
The Amazon reviews say he beats the competition. I think I heard the Oppens years ago (or was it Night Fantasies?,... or both?). I know I've had a problem with Night Fantasies (Aimard gets great reviews, though)), so, I don't know if I'm confusing the two pieces. I think the library has it, I'll check.
Quote from: snyprrr on March 30, 2010, 11:26:25 AM
That's really just a piano??
Piano player, supposedly.
Try Michael Ponti playing Tausig's ridiculously difficult but sparkling Paraphrase on themes from Moniuszko Halka, as played on "operatic Piano"(VoxBox). Ok. there are a few wrong notes and Ponti strains at times, but some passages are sheer magic and technical extravagance; the last 2 minutes are particuarly startling with an "offkey" Polish theme, played very high; snowstorms of notes indeed. This is Ponti at his zaniest-an acquired taste but spectacular if u like this kind of display(am not pretending its Beethoven:)). Anyone else know this piece/version?
Steve
Liszt pianoworks from 1830s are overtly virtuosic, like GRANDES ETUDES. And what about Thalberg piano works? I dont know them...
Chopin: CONCERT ALLEGRO op.46
Quote from: listener on March 29, 2010, 07:38:35 PM
GODOWSKY all those Chopin Études transcribed for left hand solo...
Douglas Madge conveys too well their difficulty.
Steer well clear of these Madge performances - they're
DIRE. This is actually the area in which Hamelin excels, although I'm less than impressed with various more recent recordings of his which should be better, given his undoubted pianistic abilities (Medtner and Scriabin sonatas, for instance).
Frankly, I have yet to hear the Finnissy piece that imaginarily inspired this Thread. Everything I've heard so far has a certain subdued quality to it, not spectatculaly over the top.
???
Quote from: snyprrr on May 16, 2010, 10:15:51 AM
Frankly, I have yet to hear the Finnissy piece that imaginarily inspired this Thread.
There's a free'n'legal-to-download mp3 of Finnisy's Verdi paraphrase on Jonathan Powell's website cited above. Although it's an extraordinary pianistic achievement in its own way, I ought to confess that having once turned Powell's pages for him in a recital, the most superhuman effort I've heard from him is Sorabji's
Concert Paraphrase of The Closing Scene of Richard Strauss's Salome It begins on three staves, moves to four about half-way through, and finishes on five :o In the same concert Powell performed Rodion Schedrin's own piano-voice transcription of "Grusha the Gypsy" (with Ksenia Vyaznikova, mezzo) from his opera THE ENCHANTED WANDERER. This left the Steinway looking as though it had been shot down by anti-aircraft fire.
It's not easy to be a piano virtuoso, but luckilly one can rebuild the instrument .....
http://www.youtube.com/v/MExljPsMEbA
Quote from: Marc on May 18, 2010, 11:09:11 AM
It's not easy to be a piano virtuoso, but luckilly one can rebuild the instrument .....
http://www.youtube.com/v/MExljPsMEbA
Isn't that from LOVE HAPPY?? hahaa, funny movie- there's also young Marilyn Monroe in it :)
Rach etudes
Liszt Etudes
Beethoven Sonatas
Ornstein's pretty "out there"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNsn7NjDPkM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNsn7NjDPkM)
Richard Barrett's Tracts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sdt32IwwHiU
Quote from: Philoctetes on June 08, 2010, 07:18:30 PM
Richard Barrett's Tracts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sdt32IwwHiU
One of the interesting things about this work is that it seems to stand more in the Alkan tradition of 'works that are harder to play than they sound' than the Lisztian 'works that sound harder to play than they are'. Barrett might well prefer the Alkan comparison anyway, given his appealingly eclectic tastes. (I recall reading him once saying the biggest compliment he'd ever been paid was "this piece reminds me of
Trout Mask Replica.")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6YpYKPcEBQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6YpYKPcEBQ)
Xenakis' Synaphai
Try playing anything on this...even a Liszt concerto would be a walk in the park on a real sized piano compared to this...
http://www.youtube.com/v/0XgIZSuZM7c
What in the world is Sega doing spending their time making the smallest grand piano in the world? I guess ever since they stopped making consoles, they're kinda taking it a little bit easy and doing what they want. :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ9eN0cvMZA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ9eN0cvMZA)
Berio: "Rounds" ?
Quote from: pjme on June 10, 2010, 12:21:54 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ9eN0cvMZA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ9eN0cvMZA)
Berio: "Rounds" ?
Somewhat complex, but not ridiculously complex, I don't think. Take a look at the score- it does look somewhat fearsome, but far from being one of the hardest things out there to play.
(though i haven't tried playing it, that's just my impression looking at the score)
OK- I do see what your point is, ofcourse. Hyper-virtuosity can be ....mesmerizing. But when does it become "ridiculous"?
Belgian pianist Jan Michielsen played Synaphai a couple of weeks ago ( with the Brussels PhO/Tabachnik). To hear ( and see) it live is amazing - Jolivet's concerto has the same effect on me ( albeit in a more conventionally "barbaric/orgiastic", less sophisticated way).
P.
Synaphai has to be one of the most awesome works for piano and orchestra everrrrr[...]rrr. Xenakis FTW!
I'm not a big fan of virtuosistic romantic music though Alkan's is definitely enjoyable to play, but I'm fond of 20th century works that push you to your boundaries. I find them extremely fun to play even if you suck (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vhmv4ihpOc) (that's me slaughtering The Shrovetide Fair :9)
I guess the Boulez sonatas- especially the 2nd- are quite tricky----sometimes even ridiculous in their demands (though the player may not be so amused :P )
Quote from: abidoful on June 12, 2010, 09:44:43 AM
I guess the Boulez sonatas- especially the 2nd- are quite tricky----sometimes even ridiculous in their demands (though the player may not be so amused :P )
If we want ridiculous demands, then I think Satie might take the cake there.
Only if you had them 50 fingers you can pull this off...
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4034/4695191162_3f4cd3ebc8_b.jpg)
Quote from: James on June 12, 2010, 09:47:11 AM
Yea but sounds primative(sic), like all Xenakis.
Wait a tick. Berio's
Rounds sounds primitive, like all Xenakis?
Quote from: Saul on June 12, 2010, 07:31:44 PM
Only if you had them 50 fingers you can pull this off...
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4034/4695191162_3f4cd3ebc8_b.jpg)
Cute---I like those slurs at the end of it :P
I've been listening a lot to Xenakis's Mists (1980). It borders on ridiculous, but I'll agree that it's now well within the reach of the cream of the crop. Aki Takahashi, however, seems to have 10 times the ability of everyone else, and truly transforms these mere piano notes into true 'mists' and 'clouds'. It sounds more like a Xenakian living organism, than a human pianist playing notes. Perhaps many pieces can be made to sound ridiculous depending on who's playing?
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/87/Busoni-_Piano_Concerto_(2-po_rdn)_Mvt1.pdf/page1-436px-Busoni-_Piano_Concerto_(2-po_rdn)_Mvt1.pdf.jpg)
The Busoni Piano Concerto - 75 minutes plus a men's chorus! 0:)
Quote from: Cato on June 15, 2010, 04:38:45 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/87/Busoni-_Piano_Concerto_(2-po_rdn)_Mvt1.pdf/page1-436px-Busoni-_Piano_Concerto_(2-po_rdn)_Mvt1.pdf.jpg)
The Busoni Piano Concerto - 75 minutes plus a men's chorus! 0:)
And a truly wicked
Tarantella scherzo. 8)
There's been a lot of virtuoso works mentioned, but I'd suggest that to play Beethoven's Hammerklavier sonata competently is a feat that only a superior pianist can accomplish.
In addition to its technical requirements, which are considerable, the demands to play this masterpiece musically , as Beethoven conceived it, is as tough to pull off as any of the exotic compositions mentioned. :)