(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_umVPctM9AqI/SfiFq6Asq0I/AAAAAAAABLg/XlV2SOmmDc0/s320/mutter_berg_rihm.jpg)
I want to dedicate this thread to the haunting beauty of Berg's Violin Concerto. This work still confounds me, but still gives me a lot of emotional satisfaction. I own three versions of this concerto now, but my introduction to this work was Anne Sophie Mutter's recording with James Levine and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. I think Mutter and Levine got inside of this work better than anyone. Everybody will have their preferences for recordings, but my heart remains with Mutter's and Levine's interpretations.
The story behind this work is also one of great speculation. Everybody knows that much of its inspiration came from the untimely death of Alma Mahler's daughter hence why the work is inscribed "To the memory of an angel." There are apparently some other things that hidden in this work as well. Things about Berg's own life and something about numerology. I'm not sure how much of this true or not, but one listen to this concerto will reveal a man who was in turmoil and anguish.
I would like to hear everybody's thoughts on this work. How were you introduced to it? Do you still return to it?
I've got Isaac Stern's accounts with the NYPO under Bernstein & it's pretty good. I also love Schoenberg's Violin Concerto - what a journey! It's a pity that the third guy in the triumvirate, Webern, didn't write a work in this genre.
As I said in the Berg thread, it's wierd how just as Berg was composing the piece, he wrote to his publishers to send him a Bach score. They happened to send him the exact work (Cantata No. 60) that he was beginning to quote at the end of the concerto. Somehow, it had already gotten into his subconscious (very Freudian?).
Quote from: Sid on July 15, 2010, 06:51:42 PM
I've got Isaac Stern's accounts with the NYPO under Bernstein & it's pretty good. I also love Schoenberg's Violin Concerto - what a journey! It's a pity that the third guy in the triumvirate, Webern, didn't write a work in this genre.
As I said in the Berg thread, it's wierd how just as Berg was composing the piece, he wrote to his publishers to send him a Bach score. They happened to send him the exact work (Cantata No. 60) that he was beginning to quote at the end of the concerto. Somehow, it had already gotten into his subconscious (very Freudian?).
Personally, I'm not too keen on Schoenberg's
Violin Concerto. For me, it doesn't contain much of a narrative between the soloist and the orchestra. Berg's concerto, however, is very dark, tortured work. It's the kind of piece that I find myself drawn to even more everytime I hear it. I prefer the Mutter and Levine in this concerto because I don't think any other partnership were on the same page. I need to go back and listen to the Boulez again as I heard many people enjoy it. Stern has never been a violinist I cared much about and Ozawa is, for me, a complete bore in this concerto.
Anyway, Sid, I'm more interested in finding out which sections purtain to Berg's own life. I know there's a Carinthian folk melody towards the beginning of the first movement that he had heard when he was a boy and of course most people know about the Bach chorale in the second movement. But to my ears, there's so much mystery surrounding this gorgeous score. I read that the Carinthian folk melody quoted also had something to do with one of his loves.
Andre, if you haven't read this, then please take a look at it sometime:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violin_Concerto_(Berg) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violin_Concerto_(Berg)))
I'm a huge fan of Berg in general--he's one of my "three B's": Bartók, Berg and Britten. The Mutter/Levine recording of the Violin Concerto is probably my favorite, with Levine an inspired Berg advocate, and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra sounding magnificent. (Caveat: there are a number of recordings of the piece I haven't heard.)
For me, it only seems to grow in intrigue with each hearing. I've been lucky to hear it live a number of times, most recently a few years ago with Christian Tetzlaff, James Levine and the MET Orchestra. Tetzlaff has performed the piece a lot (I think, judging from reviews), and I only hope he decides to record it at some point.
--Bruce
Quote from: bhodges on July 15, 2010, 08:00:34 PM
I'm a huge fan of Berg in general--he's one of my "three B's": Bartók, Berg and Britten. The Mutter/Levine recording of the Violin Concerto is probably my favorite, with Levine an inspired Berg advocate, and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra sounding magnificent. (Caveat: there are a number of recordings of the piece I haven't heard.)
For me, it only seems to grow in intrigue with each hearing. I've been lucky to hear it live a number of times, most recently a few years ago with Christian Tetzlaff, James Levine and the MET Orchestra. Tetzlaff has performed the piece a lot (I think, judging from reviews), and I only hope he decides to record it at some point.
--Bruce
You've seen it live with Levine? Oh you lucky little devil....
It's interesting I have my three B's as well: Brahms, Bruckner, and Bartok. I have only recently become an avid fan of Berg, so perhaps he'll knock off Brahms before too long. ;) Nobody will ever knock off Bruckner or Bartok for me though. I'm head-over-hills in love with their music. :D I do enjoy Britten a lot as well.
Getting back to Berg, Bruce, let me ask you question: do you buy into all mysterious that surround this concerto or do you believe a lot of it is just hogwash?
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 15, 2010, 08:07:57 PM
You've seen it live with Levine? Oh you lucky little devil....
It's interesting I have my three B's as well: Brahms, Bruckner, and Bartok. I have only recently become an avid fan of Berg, so perhaps he'll knock off Brahms before too long. ;) Nobody will ever knock off Bruckner or Bartok for me though. I'm head-over-hills in love with their music. :D I do enjoy Britten a lot as well.
Getting back to Berg, Bruce, let me ask you question: do you buy into all mysterious that surround this concerto or do you believe a lot of it is just hogwash?
Bruckner and Brahms would both be very close to making my "three B's" as well--Bruckner, especially. But I don't think I've ever heard a piece by Brahms I didn't like.
As far as the Berg Violin Concerto, I just like it, purely as music--no other agenda is involved. It makes me feel human and alive when I hear it (and I just listened to the entire piece on YouTube, with Leonid Kogan). The Bach quotations, in this context, are terribly moving, too.
--Bruce
I must have dozens of recordings of this piece - but the only one I ever tend to listen to, for all its sonic inadequacy, is the one on Testament, Loius Krasner (for whom the piece was written) as soloist, Webern as conductor, in the piece's 2nd performance, shortly after Berg had died. No there is a performance from right inside the score. It's scorchingly, searingly emotional, that one.
BTW, yes, the Carinthian folksong is a cryptographic allusion to a lover of Berg's - I think she was a family servant or something similar.
Well, Luke, if that is true, then this is yet another work which alludes to a love affair Berg had (the other, of course, being the Lyric Suite). He seemed to be a "ladies man" indeed.
Re the Schoenberg concerto, I think that there is just as much drama and tension in that as the Berg (especially the final movement), but two things count against this work as compared to the Berg (in audiences minds?). 1. It is the most difficult concerto to play in the repertoire (or definitely one of them?), 2. There is no "resolution" at the end, Berg ends in tranquility and comes full circle (the "tuning up" segment returns), but the Schoenberg ends up asking more questions than can be comfortably answered. Hilary Hahn has made the Schoenberg concerto her own, and if she comes down under to play it, guess who the first person will be to rush & buy tickets? (No prizes!)
By the way, if people like Berg's (or Schoenberg's) violin concertos, I'd suggest they hear Henze's 3 violin concertos (especially the 1st). Henze was heavily influenced (and indebted two) the two other masters, and of course, he was carrying on the European pantonal/serial tradition. The first concerto I consider to be the most accessible, but it has many solo cadenzas, which to me suggest loneliness and desolation (Henze had been conscripted as a teenager into the German army during WW2). The colourings of the violin and the orchestra remind me of the above two, as well as of Stravinsky (in parts)...
Quote from: Sid on July 15, 2010, 10:49:59 PM
Well, Luke, if that is true, then this is yet another work which alludes to a love affair Berg had (the other, of course, being the Lyric Suite). He seemed to be a "ladies man" indeed.
;D No, it's definitely true; all these cryptographic references in Berg's scores are beyond doubt, nowadays. IIRC - haven't read Jarman for a while - this servant girl wasn't so much a long-term lover of Berg's as a youthful indiscretion, but significant nevertheless. The affair with Hanna Fuchs-Robettin, commemorated much more fully and extensively in the Lyric Suite, was a more serious thing
Quote from: Luke on July 15, 2010, 10:36:11 PM
I must have dozens of recordings of this piece - but the only one I ever tend to listen to, for all its sonic inadequacy, is the one on Testament, Loius Krasner (for whom the piece was written) as soloist, Webern as conductor, in the piece's 2nd performance, shortly after Berg had died. No there is a performance from right inside the score. It's scorchingly, searingly emotional, that one.
BTW, yes, the Carinthian folksong is a cryptographic allusion to a lover of Berg's - I think she was a family servant or something similar.
Argh, and a friend of mine from the MFA has lent me that Krasner/Webern recording . . . need to scare it up, and actually listen to it . . . . A magnificent piece, which almost seems as if it oughtn't to work, with the juxtaposition of elements, the 'straddling' of musical aesthetics, but whose artistic perfection silences the question. I feel equally enthusiastic about the Schoenberg Vn Cto, BTW, though it does not 'benefit' from the rich layer of extramusical allusion. I never know quite what to say to someone who thinks less highly of the Schoenberg (or any other 'purer' piece of music) because it doesn't have those extramusical pegs . . . . In all events, the Berg was introduced to me when I was a mere slip of an undergrad, many years ago, and (like the Chamber Cto) I fell for it immediately like a ton of atonal bricks.
Quote from: Sid on July 15, 2010, 10:49:59 PMRe the Schoenberg concerto, I think that there is just as much drama and tension in that as the Berg (especially the final movement), but two things count against this work as compared to the Berg (in audiences minds?). 1. It is the most difficult concerto to play in the repertoire (or definitely one of them?), 2. There is no "resolution" at the end, Berg ends in tranquility and comes full circle (the "tuning up" segment returns), but the Schoenberg ends up asking more questions than can be comfortably answered. Hilary Hahn has made the Schoenberg concerto her own, and if she comes down under to play it, guess who the first person will be to rush & buy tickets? (No prizes!)
This is a good way to put it. I'm not opposed to the Schoenberg
Violin Concerto, I just enjoy Berg's music more and I love the way combines 12-tone technique with more tonal passages. I think he's brilliant at this.
The advocacy of so many I respect suggests I'd best give Berg's VC another go--perhaps the Kogan performance on youtube that Bruce enjoyed...?
Quote from: James on July 16, 2010, 08:52:58 AMthe work is full of non-serial elements woven into the texture like that.
Which is one reason I love it. Music doesn't have to be such an intellectual process that we forget about the emotion. Berg's
Violin Concerto is an emotional work and I think it's absolutely brilliant the way he weaved tonal/atonal ideas in and out of each other. His music is lyrical and heartfelt, but it is also highly intellectual, but I feel that Schoenberg and Webern did not achieve the kind of beauty that Berg was able to, but, of course, this could be debated all day long, which I'm not going to do. This is just my opinion.
This said, I challenge people who are into tonal music and nothing else to give this Berg concerto a chance. Approach it with an open-mind. Are you reading this Teresa? :P
Quote from: DavidRoss on July 16, 2010, 07:30:07 AM
The advocacy of so many I respect suggests I'd best give Berg's VC another go--perhaps the Kogan performance on youtube that Bruce enjoyed...?
PS, for what it's worth, I'd never heard Kogan's version before I heard it two days ago. Didn't have the Mutter/Levine handy, and Kogan's was the first complete one I stumbled into on YouTube. But it will do very nicely.
--Bruce
Quote from: bhodges on July 16, 2010, 07:03:50 PM
PS, for what it's worth, I'd never heard Kogan's version before I heard it two days ago. Didn't have the Mutter/Levine handy, and Kogan's was the first complete one I stumbled into on YouTube. But it will do very nicely.
--Bruce
But if one wants to own a recording of this work then the Mutter/Levine is a must! :D
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 16, 2010, 07:06:57 PM
But if one wants to own a recording of this work then the Mutter/Levine is a must! :D
I dunno, I think I prefer Grumiaux. This is still a tough work for me, though. Not "Elliot Carter tough", but I'm still not sure I've learned to love it.
OOPS: I mean Szeryng. I do have Grumiaux on LP.
I still prefer the version of Josef Suk and Karel Ancerl. It respects the structure of the work and has a deeply touching emotion, but never sentimental. The sound of Suk's violin is beautiful, very "pure" ...
Quote from: bhodges on July 16, 2010, 07:03:50 PM
PS, for what it's worth, I'd never heard Kogan's version before I heard it two days ago. Didn't have the Mutter/Levine handy, and Kogan's was the first complete one I stumbled into on YouTube. But it will do very nicely.
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 16, 2010, 07:06:57 PMBut if one wants to own a recording of this work then the Mutter/Levine is a must! :D
The Kogan was fine, Bruce, but (as usual with this piece) failed to engage me emotionally or physically. Later I played Mutter/Levine, whose tendencies toward lush, Romantic expressiveness serve this piece as well as any I've heard. Perhaps later still I'll give Daniel Hope's recent recording another spin with Mutter relatively fresh in mind.
This piece is one of my blindspots - I can hear it is a work of some considerable quality, but emotionally it does very little for me. Sort of surprising as its essentially the only atonal warhorse concerto... but there are so many other pieces by Berg and Schoenberg that I like more.
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 15, 2010, 07:40:43 PM
Anyway, Sid, I'm more interested in finding out which sections purtain to Berg's own life. I know there's a Carinthian folk melody towards the beginning of the first movement that he had heard when he was a boy and of course most people know about the Bach chorale in the second movement. But to my ears, there's so much mystery surrounding this gorgeous score. I read that the Carinthian folk melody quoted also had something to do with one of his loves.
The Corinthian folk song is quoted near the end of the first movement not the beginning--it starts around 10:10 (horns) in the Mutter recording, with the theme passed off to the trumpet at 10:30). It alludes to an affair Berg had with a servant girl in the family's summer house when he was a teen. The numerology you mentioned earlier is indicated by the prominence in the second movement of the numbers 23, which Berg associated with himself, and 10, his lover Hanna Fuchs-Robettin. I don't know what that means though. My source didn't explain. Perhaps someone with a knowledge of the score and composing can help us out: Luke? Karl? Anyway, it may mean that this farewell, this "requiem," is not just for Manon Gropius but for Hanna.
I too would probably take Mutter/Levine to the desert island (primarily for her gorgeous tonal colors). But really, I do not want to be without several others: Watanabe and Sinopoli are just as passionately romantic, perhaps even more so at some points. I prefer the way they play the folk song, with Watanabe fading into the background and the trumpet coming very prominently to the fore; Sinopoli urging the Staatskapelle Dresden into some heartbreaking rubato. Szeryng/Kubelik are more urgent tempo-wise but more restrained emotionally, which works really well too. Boulez/Zukerman, on paper, shouldn't work (they are such opposite characters: the cold, logical modernist; the schmaltzy romantic) but I love their performance (it has the most affecting cover too: a portrait of angel Manon).
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/web/bergbouzuk.jpg)
Sarge
Quote from: Guido on July 17, 2010, 05:31:35 AM
This piece is one of my blindspots - I can hear it is a work of some considerable quality, but emotionally it does very little for me. Sort of surprising as its essentially the only atonal warhorse concerto... but there are so many other pieces by Berg and Schoenberg that I like more.
The piece's status as the "only atonal warhorse concerto" must be a North American thing. In Europe I've seen Schoenberg's Piano Concerto played more often, and drawing more of a subscriber audience.
Quote from: CRCulver on July 17, 2010, 06:39:11 AM
The piece's status as the "only atonal warhorse concerto" must be a North American thing.
Probably fair.
Quote from: CRCulver on July 17, 2010, 06:39:11 AM
The piece's status as the "only atonal warhorse concerto" must be a North American thing. In Europe I've seen Schoenberg's Piano Concerto played more often, and drawing more of a subscriber audience.
I wasn't aware that ANY atonal works were sufficiently beloved or played frequently enough to attain "warhorse" status, in the U.S. or elsewhere. Guess we should add "warhorse" to the growing list of terms needing clear definition before discussing.
Quote from: CRCulver on July 17, 2010, 06:39:11 AM
The piece's status as the "only atonal warhorse concerto" must be a North American thing. In Europe I've seen Schoenberg's Piano Concerto played more often, and drawing more of a subscriber audience.
My experience in Europe is completely the opposite: I rarely see the Schoenbeg PC on a program (who's playing it? There are very few recordings). The Berg is everywhere, though.
Sarge
I really like the Berg Violin concerto. Like Mirror Image I love the Mutter/Levine recording but I have no other version to compare it with.
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 17, 2010, 06:34:40 AM
The Corinthian folk song is quoted near the end of the first movement not the beginning--it starts around 10:10 (horns) in the Mutter recording, with the theme passed off to the trumpet at 10:30). It alludes to an affair Berg had with a servant girl in the family's summer house when he was a teen. The numerology you mentioned earlier is indicated by the prominence in the second movement of the numbers 23, which Berg associated with himself, and 10, his lover Hanna Fuchs-Robettin. I don't know what that means though. My source didn't explain. Perhaps someone with a knowledge of the score and composing can help us out: Luke? Karl? Anyway, it may mean that this farewell, this "requiem," is not just for Manon Gropius but for Hanna.
I too would probably take Mutter/Levine to the desert island (primarily for her gorgeous tonal colors). But really, I do not want to be without several others: Watanabe and Sinopoli are just as passionately romantic, perhaps even more so at some points. I prefer the way they play the folk song, with Watanabe fading into the background and the trumpet coming very prominently to the fore; Sinopoli urging the Staatskapelle Dresden into some heartbreaking rubato. Szeryng/Kubelik are more urgent tempo-wise but more restrained emotionally, which works really well too. Boulez/Zukerman, on paper, shouldn't work (they are such opposite characters: the cold, logical modernist; the schmaltzy romantic) but I love their performance (it has the most affecting cover too: a portrait of angel Manon).
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/web/bergbouzuk.jpg)
Sarge
Thanks for the information and the correction on the Corinthian folk song quote. :D
I own three versions of the Berg Violin Concerto: Mutter/Levine, Watanabe/Sinopoli, and Zukerman/Boulez, but I haven't heard the Watanabe yet. I'm probably going to hear these on Monday or Tuesday. My listening schedule is pretty tied up at the moment. :)
Yeah, it's one of my all time favourites. I've heard many recordings of it, including the "legendary" KRASNER-WEBERN one, but my favourite one is -still- the one I heard first: MENUHIN- BOULEZ.
I was once so "obsessed" with this work that had to study the score. It's so nostalgic, sort of his testament and farewell to life- one of my favourite bits are those two places where he uses that Corinthian folk song. :-*
Have you all noticed that false meme effect kicking in? Everybody is now writing "Corinthian". Soon there will be theses on the subject of ancient Corinthian modes and their ghostly presence in Berg's Violin Concerto. The word "Carinthian" is derived from the region of Kärnten, a former duchy of Mittel-Europa bordering on Italy and Slovenia.
The most illuminating recordings, in my subjective view - and I don't know the Krasner/Webern:
Krasner/Busch
Szigeti/Mitropoulos
Gitlis/Strickland
Grumiaux/Markevitch
Suk/Ancerl
I have heard the Stern/Bernstein and the Szeryng/Kubelik. Shrugs. And the much touted Mutter/Levine monstrosity (gags - I cannot stand anything she does). What else has there been? (Menuhin couldn't cut it.) One horror will be spared us: Kennedy, or Nige as his mates call 'im, with the Hyde Park Promenade Orchestra conducted by Edward Heath (RIP).
I agree that the extra-musical stories involved are of secondary interest - back in the 70s when it was all coming out it seemed wildly exciting. But Schoenberg's concerto is at least as rich and inexhaustible. I am with the supporters of Ms.Hahn here - I saw/heard her perform this back in 2002 (?) and was transported. Her recording was not quite as thrilling but still - none of the others known to me, even Krasner's with Mitropoulos, can compete.
Quote from: mjwal on July 29, 2010, 09:43:05 AMin my subjective view
Yes, definitely in your own subjective view. You may hate Mutter, but her recording with Levine is definitely the best performance I've heard of this concerto. Never have I heard such a great balance between soloist and orchestra in a recording of this concerto. Absolutely BRILLIANT performance!!! And I'm certainly not the only one who feels this way.
I have the Mutter/Levine Berg in the big Berg box and find it a very good performance, but as to it being the best, I can't say.
This looks interesting to me, since I like everything I've heard from Gidon Kremer.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511DpKNxR-L._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Gidon-Kremer-Alban-Berg-Concerto/dp/B001F1YBMG/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1280426876&sr=1-8)
Quote from: Franco on July 29, 2010, 10:12:41 AM
I have the Mutter/Levine Berg in the big Berg box and find it a very good performance, but as to it being the best, I can't say.
This looks interesting to me, since I like everything I've heard from Gidon Kremer.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511DpKNxR-L._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Gidon-Kremer-Alban-Berg-Concerto/dp/B001F1YBMG/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1280426876&sr=1-8)
I'm not impressed with Kremer's playing that much and Colin Davis conducting just seems like a misfire to me. I don't need to hear it.
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 29, 2010, 10:18:50 AM
I'm not impressed with Kremer's playing that much and Colin Davis conducting just seems like a misfire to me. I don't need to hear it.
What if they might surprise you?
Quote from: Franco on July 29, 2010, 10:12:41 AM
This looks interesting to me, since I like everything I've heard from Gidon Kremer. (http://www.amazon.com/Gidon-Kremer-Alban-Berg-Concerto/dp/B001F1YBMG/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1280426876&sr=1-8)
Likewise; thanks for the alert!
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 29, 2010, 10:31:01 AM
What if they might surprise you?
I doubt they will surprise me, Karl. I have heard enough from both Kremer and Davis to know what they are capable of and I suppose my own jaded views of both of these musicians shrouds my view of this particular performance.
That said, this DVD does contain what maybe an interesting documentary about Berg called
The Secret Life of Alban Berg. That might be interesting to watch.
Lucky is the man who recognizes his prejudices for what they are. Luckier still the one who recognizes their cost.
Quote from: DavidRoss on July 29, 2010, 10:39:59 AM
Lucky is the man who recognizes his prejudices for what they are. Luckier still the one who recognizes their cost.
Wise words, but since I have found my favorite performance what left now is for me to listen and listen again to the music. So far I have heard this concerto probably around 20-25 times in the past three months.
I don't think anything is definitive, there is no "best" recording of anything. One performance may work for one person, another might work for another.
I've got Stern's peformance of Berg's Violin Concerto & it works for me. I'm not hung up about any particular performance, life's too short, I'm just for enjoying the music as my first priority, the nature of the performance comes way after that for me.
On the same disc, there is also the Chamber Concerto, a less "open and shut" type of work than the Violin Concerto. I'm gearing up to see this live here in Sydney in October. This work seems to ask more questions than it can answer. I can also hear snippets of Wozzeck in there, but I could be wrong. This is a much quirkier work, it also has elements of the Viennese waltz, but quite grotesquely. I think it is quite a joyous work, celebrating the friendship between Berg, Schoenberg & Webern, but the ending, with some wierd sounds from the woodwind and violin soloist doesn't seem to resolve anything. That's fine with me, I like quirky, wierd and unresolved music!
I've got that disc, too, Sid. The Violin Concerto is conducted by Lenny, the Kammerkonzert by Abbado (and IIRC Peter Serkin is the pianist). A good performance, more 'warmth' in some ways than the performance in the DG Berg Box (conducted by Boulez). I like both recordings, different in character though they be. Like yourself, I don't think there's any such thing as a single greatest recording of any work. The artwork is larger than any one interpretation of it.
You'll love it live! We heard it here in Boston a season or two ago. Great piece, though not one to be fully assimilated on a hearing or two.
Quote from: Sid on July 29, 2010, 04:44:16 PMI'm not hung up about any particular performance, life's too short, I'm just for enjoying the music as my first priority, the nature of the performance comes way after that for me.
I'm not hung up on a particular performance either, but there are always those exceptions for me. In my opinion, Mutter/Levine really did an outstanding job with this concerto and their feelings and expressions really come through in this interpretation. For me, they made this work their own and I think for anyone to dismiss this recording, because they don't like Mutter is simply missing the point, which comes back to the music. They played the music and made
ME believe it. I think for musicians to do that is a great thing.
I don't think there's anything wrong with enjoying a recording more than another one if you're moved by it. It's all subjective. I just happen to have been more moved by the Mutter/Levine recording than any other. Again, it just strikes the right balance that no other recording seems to be able to match.
Yes, Karl, I am looking forward to seeing the Chamber Concerto live, it's not a work that's played often, especially here in Australia. & Mirror Image, it's good if that particular recording has made you come closer to understanding Berg. Some people don't understand (or want to?) this type of music at all, whatever the performance. I have liked Berg ever since reading about then hearing his Wozzeck as a teenager. Something - the drama, directness, the vivid colours, etc. - made his style immediately resonate with me. I recently got the Stern/Bernstein/Abbado recording of the Violin Concerto & Chamber Concerto because the coupling suited me. I wanted both concertos on the one disc. & as Karl says, it's a fine interpretation, and Stern was really at home in playing C20th concertos. Of course, that doesn't negate other violinists' fine interpretations of the work as well...
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 29, 2010, 10:05:34 AM
Yes, definitely in your own subjective view. You may hate Mutter, but her recording with Levine is definitely the best performance I've heard of this concerto. Never have I heard such a great balance between soloist and orchestra in a recording of this concerto. Absolutely BRILLIANT performance!!! And I'm certainly not the only one who feels this way.
All right already. I think you had said that before. The "I'm not the only one" strain is rather defiant in a manner I have encountered in other contexts - unpromising. And the snarky later remark "I think for anyone to dismiss this recording because they don't like Mutter is simply missing the point" is pretty cheap. I don't like the performance, fruity as it undoubtedly is. Get over it.
Quote from: mjwal on July 30, 2010, 04:34:08 AM
All right already. I think you had said that before. The "I'm not the only one" strain is rather defiant in a manner I have encountered in other contexts - unpromising. And the snarky later remark "I think for anyone to dismiss this recording because they don't like Mutter is simply missing the point" is pretty cheap. I don't like the performance, fruity as it undoubtedly is. Get over it.
You definitely need to get your ears checked, because the Mutter/Levine is an awe-inspiring performance full everything that makes this concerto work: passion, drama, intellectual curiosity, and deeply devoted musicians.
Yeah, I definitely think you're missing the point and haven't devoted enough time into understanding the work and figuring out what works and doesn't work.
I don't care if you like the performance or not, but to dismiss out-of-hand is totally ignorant on your part, especially given the fact that for many people this is the reference recording of this work.
All of this said, you're the one who needs to "get over it."
The point has been made and repeated often that some persons think Mutter/Levine is the bee's knees and further claim that those who don't agree are morons. Understood. Can we move on? ;)
Quote from: DavidRoss on July 30, 2010, 10:45:29 AM
The point has been made and repeated often that some persons think Mutter/Levine is the bee's knees and further claim that those who don't agree are morons. Understood. Can we move on? ;)
I don't think anybody is a moron. I'm not a particularly big fan of Mutter either and find her, in most cases, to be quite harsh, unsympathetic, uncharismatic, and selfish in her performances. But there's just something magical about that Berg recording she made with Levine. It's almost as if she's not serving herself and is digging more into the music. Levine's accompaniment is also sublime.
Yes, we can move on. I respect that people don't like this recording, but I was just curious to find out why. Whatever the case may be, there is one thing we all can agree on: the Berg
Violin Concerto is a fine work.
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 30, 2010, 11:08:09 AM
there is one thing we all can agree on: the Berg Violin Concerto is a fine work.
So far this week I've already baited porn addicts, Wagnerites, Boulez worshippers, socialists, communists, fascists, Brits, and would-be prophets, so although I appreciate you serving this one up so nicely, I think I'll pass. and just wish everyone a lovely weekend!
Woot!
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 30, 2010, 11:08:09 AM
I don't think anybody is a moron. I'm not a particularly big fan of Mutter either and find her, in most cases, to be quite harsh, unsympathetic, uncharismatic, and selfish in her performances. But there's just something magical about that Berg recording she made with Levine. It's almost as if she's not serving herself and is digging more into the music. Levine's accompaniment is also sublime.
Have you heard Mutter's recording of Lutoslawski's "Chain 2" and "Partita"? I think it's amazing and I think you'd like it as well.
Quote from: jhar26 on July 31, 2010, 01:53:44 AM
Have you heard Mutter's recording of Lutoslawski's "Chain 2" and "Partita"? I think it's amazing and I think you'd like it as well.
I have not, jhar26. I have definitely heard of it, but just haven't heard it yet. Perhaps this will be next on my list? Thanks for the recommendation. :D
Just heads up that Grumiaux's recording with Markevitch is now on Australian Eloquence:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41UVRvnw7iL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Quote from: jhar26 on July 31, 2010, 01:53:44 AM
Have you heard Mutter's recording of Lutoslawski's "Chain 2" and "Partita"? I think it's amazing and I think you'd like it as well.
Yes, these are great works. I have the Naxos recording of the
Partita (violin & piano version). Lutoslawski used quite a bit of atonality, but he is usually very approachable and pretty middle of the road. His individuality reminds me of composers like Janacek or Messiaen, having his own unique style but still very much in tune with the musical developments that were happening around him.