I noticed an interest amongst posters for historical singers - let's say singers roughly from the pre-war, 78rpm era.
please post your favourite historical singers!
- Why do you like them?
- In what repertoire did they excel?
- Which recordings do you recommend?
Have fun. :)
Q
I'll kick off with one of my favourite Germanic tenors (Austrian): Richard Tauber.
He did not have a particularly beautiful or big voice, in fact he was adviced not to persue a singing career - he succeeded on sheer determination and incredible musical intelligence.
It's that musical intelligence, charisma and charms that wins me over everytime. He sang serious repertoire as well as light stuff, of which he elevated the musical interest when he sings it IMO. He did opera (Mozart), operetta (Lehar), German Lieder (Schubert) and Viennese songs, folk songs, etc. I like it all.
What does he sound like? Samples I (http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=1083980&style=classical&BAB=E) Samples II (http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=5552751&style=classical&BAB=E)
As for recordings, fussy on transfers as I am, I stick with Pearl and Preiser most of the time.
To start with Tauber, the series on Naxos seems a nice option.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41TZ0GKNJVL._AA240_.jpg) (http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51RJ3CDM6WL._AA240_.jpg) (http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41YPYQKXVSL._AA240_.jpg)
If you're willing to spend a bit more, these recommendations:
EMI (2CD) - very nice
(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/3654176.jpg)
Preiser:
(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/7602611.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/8047900.jpg)
Q
I'm quite fond of Anna Moffo in the role of Violetta. She can be my courtesan any day. :)
Moffo was a fairly recent singer and made her recordings in the LP era....I have just bought her Traviata and enjoy it a lot.
Although his later material was issued on LP, Boris Christoff made quite a few 78s with Walter Legge producing. Many are thrown together with his later LP recitals and have been issued on CD. He was a Bulgarian Bass and had a deal of histronic talent. The voice is distinctive and beautifully even until you reach the very bottom range which is not as strong as might be expected. He was a particular champion of Russian art song.
Scroll down here to find about 25 arias or songs. The Prophet by Rimsky Korsakov is pretty spectacular, but really they all have a great deal to offer.
http://www.tsanoff-classic.com/TheGreatestBulgarians/Boris.Christoff/
Mike
There's a Boris Godunov where Christoff sings all 3 bass roles: Boris, Pimen, and Varlaam. I've heard that it bothers some opera lovers to hear the same voice in all 3 roles. It doesn't bother me; as long as a singer does a great job, I am happy to listen.
Boris Christoff is terrific and was then without parallel, and has been ever since.
Interestingly he does however finds his match in his predecessors - basses from the "East" (all born in Imperial Russia): amongst them Alexander Kipnis, Mark Reizen, Alexander Pirogov, and the illustrious Feodor Chaliapin.
The bass Alexander Kipnis, father of harpsichordist Igor Kipnis, is one of my favourites.
A gorgeous, smooth, deep voice. He sings with clear accent, no matter what foreign language, and songs are often transposed down, but I love every second of it! ;D Like with Tauber his strength is his unbelievable musical intelligence and psychological insight in the role he sings in opera and the texts of the Lieder he performs. Yes, he did both and just listen to his Brahms Lieder - profoundly hair raising and deeply touching.
I would recommend the Sony Masterworks Heritage issue without hesitation: a wonderfull selection of opera arias and Lieder in a superlative quality transfer (like that whole series btw). One of my desert Island discs and a steal for the price...
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NdRJqGALL._SS500_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Opera-Arias-Songs-Alexander-Kipnis/dp/B0000029PF/ref=sr_1_16/105-0406394-2330807?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1182538246&sr=1-16)
Click on picture for samples
Key recommendations on Preiser:
(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/6331133.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/3910761.jpg)
Q
I suppose, for people into Wagner, it comes down to two names: Lauritz Melchior and Friedrich Schorr. Melchior is, in my opinion, probably the last true Heldentenor. His Vienna Walküre (act 1) under Bruno Walter really is the standard for Siegmund. That's not fair, but of the great Wagnerian voices since Melchior, only James King really had the power, dark tone, and dramatic abilities of Melchior. That's open for debate, though.
Friedrich Schorr, as can be heard on several releases - a Met Rheingold and Götterdämmerung and the Melchior Siegfried set - is the greatest Wagnerian bass. Unfortunately, the recordings where he could be heard in the best voice are none the best. By the time technology got good enough to really capture the fullness of his voice, he was past his prime. Still, the power and dark tone come through. The man could sing.
Quote from: knight on June 22, 2007, 01:57:45 AM
Moffo was a fairly recent singer and made her recordings in the LP era....I have just bought her Traviata and enjoy it a lot.
Although his later material was issued on LP, Boris Christoff made quite a few 78s with Walter Legge producing. Many are thrown together with his later LP recitals and have been issued on CD. He was a Bulgarian Bass and had a deal of histronic talent. The voice is distinctive and beautifully even until you reach the very bottom range which is not as strong as might be expected. He was a particular champion of Russian art song.
Scroll down here to find about 25 arias or songs. The Prophet by Rimsky Korsakov is pretty spectacular, but really they all have a great deal to offer.
http://www.tsanoff-classic.com/TheGreatestBulgarians/Boris.Christoff/
Mike
Mike, how on earth do you find those fantastic sites? Thanks for the link! :D :D :D
I take no real credit, I just googled and eventually stumbled across it.
In case anyone missed it from another thread, here is Mark Reizen at 90 years of age, totally remarkable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MzO56PmjQ4
Mike
Quote from: knight on June 22, 2007, 11:46:15 AM
I take no real credit, I just googled and eventually stumbled across it.
In case anyone missed it from another thread, here is Mark Reizen at 90 years of age, totally remarkable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MzO56PmjQ4
Mike
Mike, thanks for that - I actually did miss that before! :)
Absolutely wonderfull.
Q
I have some early Tebaldi tracks, now on CD, they were originally issued as 78s in 1949 and 1950. The parts are in the main the ones she re-recorded later. One disc is on Classic Art History, the other FONO Enterprises. They give a very interesting insight into the genesis of a great singer. She sounds like a different person than her more famous self. Here the tone is brighter, the words more imaginatively used. The voice is utterly beautiful.
I prefer these discs to her later work when to my ears she became more bland.
Mike
Quote from: knight on June 22, 2007, 11:46:15 AM
I take no real credit, I just googled and eventually stumbled across it.
In case anyone missed it from another thread, here is Mark Reizen at 90 years of age, totally remarkable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MzO56PmjQ4
Mike
Yes, I noticed before. Amazing!
Uh--Caruso? :D
Quote from: jochanaan on June 22, 2007, 03:25:52 PM
Uh--Caruso? :D
Yes, I'd appreciate some recommendations of his recordings. :)
In my younger days, I ignored anything from the pre LP age, finding most of them unlistenable, especially as I had a penchant for sopranos, whose voices took least well to the acoustic recording process. I then read John Steane's wonderful book The Grand Tradition, which, egged on by his enthusiasm for his subject, lead me to investigate more thoroughly singers of a bygone age. What riches I had in store!
From the hundreds of pre war singers I listened to, the soprano who stood out most for me was Rosa Ponselle, who excelled in Verdi and Italian opera. Like Tebaldi, she had a somewhat short top, but unlike Tebaldi an appreciable florid technique. In the middle and lower reaches, her voice had a richness most mezzos cannot approach, and, by all accounts, the voice was huge, though it never lost quality, no matter how loudly she sang. The performances to listen out for are a complete La Traviata from the Met, and studio recordings of arias and scenes from Norma, La Vestale and La Forza del Destino.
Cluadia Muzio excelled in a slightly different repertore from Ponselle's, though she too was a great Violetta. She had a quality best expressed by the Italian word morbidezza, making her, in a sense, easier to love, than the lofty Ponselle. Apart from her recordings of Puccini and Verdi, search out a recording of a lovely song by Donaudy; O del mio amato ben, a performance of exquisite sighs and sweet murmurings.
Other favourite sopranos are Frida Leider, supreme, (better than Flagstad IMO) in Wagner, and actually a pretty good Verdi soprano, witness her D'amor sul'ali rosee from Il Trovatore, perfect trills and all. In fact, she reminds us that Wagner wrote some trills for Brunnhilde in her opening scene. We certainly never seem to hear them these days.
For the French repertoire I turn to Maggie Teyte, who did some marvellous Debussy with Alfred Cortot. I have yet to hear a better performance of Duparc's beautiful Chanson Triste, but Teyte had a lighter side too. Her recording of Tu n'es pas beau from Offenbach's La Perichole is an absolute treasure.
I am going to own up here. I have volume three of the EMI record of singing. 10 discs of 78s running from 1926 through to 1939. By far most of the names are not familiar to me. A lot went past in a blur and I really find the earliest recordings difficult to get much out of.
However this thread has prompted me to have a trawl through it again. It is set out in voice types and then divided into schools. I was surprised to find Maria Cebotari to be regarded as part of the German School, I had assumed she was Italian.
One singer I had already been seeking out is Margarete Klose, a superb mezzo. The recital disc I have is all rather staid, tasteful. What had brought her to my attention was a live extract of her singing Otrud. Live she was electrifying and terrifying. I wonder how closely the studio 78s represent the magnetism of the performers. I have read various stories about them being in formal dress to sing into a horn....surely this kind of thing, together with having to ensure the length of the piece was fitted onto the side of a 78 was a constraint.
I heard one track recently of the aria of King Philip from Don Carlos. It was at a stupendous lick, I assume so it would fit onto two sides.
Mike
I'll go for the coloratura sopranos:
Tetrazzini
Medea Mei
Nezhdanova
Melba (to less extent as she did not record much coloratura work)
Marchesi (less of a coloratura and a small voice but pleasant),
to list but a few.
The Nimbus team worked wonders with Tetrazzini on two CD reissues in their Prima Voce series. The characteristics of her voice were made for recording. There's a Pearl set - badly done with a few beginnings of tracks obtrusively cut.
I think I liked these singers because they were trained in the bel canto style, something that was abandoned in the early part of the 20th century.
Interesting topic. :)
Is Jan Kiepura any good? What are the opinions of the experts?
Ada Sari?
I don't really know their singing but at least I could acquire their recordings more or less easily...
Maciek
What we need here is clips, reading a whole lot of new names....I would like to know what they sound like.
Mike
Tito Schipa - what a voice. You will never hear anyone else sing the same rep like him.
Dame Eva Turner - as Turandot. No singer since has sang the role like her.
Jan Kiepura- in song. Beautiful.
Quote from: knight on June 23, 2007, 04:43:45 AM
What we need here is clips, reading a whole lot of new names....I would like to know what they sound like.
Mike
Friedrich Schorr (http://www.bassocantante.com/opera/schorr.html) singing Wotan's farewell from
Die Walküre. The sound isn't great, but you can still see the power and sheer majesty of his voice.
Plenty of Lauritz Melchior clips at this site (http://wwwsys.informatik.fh-wiesbaden.de/weber1/melchior/melframe.html). Certainly worth a little time to hear
the Heldentenor in action.
Excellent, a very distinctive voice. I have been going through some of my Record of Singing discs and I will make a few suggestions. Some voices could be quite contempory, others somehow have style and manerisms that have been overtaken by time. What immediately impresses however is the evenness of the voice production in general.
Mike
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on June 23, 2007, 02:32:58 AM
Other favourite sopranos are Frida Leider, supreme, (better than Flagstad IMO) in Wagner
(Borrows Karl's table, and pounds it.)
Mrs. Rock hates Wagner. Absolutely detests the music (except Holländer). Ten years ago I bought a Leider CD, put it in the player one Sunday afternoon and played it. Mrs. Rock's ears perked up. Who's that? she wanted to know. Now that's singing, she exclaimed, and she stopped what she was doing and listened to...Wagner! It was a wretched sounding recording too (a Pearl, no makeup, just the straight, unfiltered, scratchy sound of those ancient 78s) but Leider mesmerized her. Me too.
Leider is one reason I claim the golden age of Wagnerian singing was the 30s, 40s. By the 50s something had already changed.
Sarge
Quote from: knight on June 23, 2007, 04:43:45 AM
What we need here is clips, reading a whole lot of new names....I would like to know what they sound like.
Mike
You can listen to some Jan Kiepura samples here:
Opera Arias (http://www.merlin.com.pl/frontend/browse/product/4,36759.html)
Brunetki, blondynki. The best of... (http://www.merlin.com.pl/frontend/browse/product/4,502183.html)
Cracow 1958 live (http://www.merlin.com.pl/frontend/browse/product/4,477736.html) (one of his last concerts I understand)
Czarowna melodia nocy (http://www.merlin.com.pl/frontend/browse/product/4,351163.html)
And here is Ada Sari (http://www.merlin.com.pl/frontend/browse/product/4,445090.html).
And here is Wanda Werminska (http://www.merlin.com.pl/frontend/browse/product/4,477689.html) (1897-1988 so I'm not sure she still fits in here).
Couldn't find anything better, I'm afraid - just these short clips. :-\
Quote from: PSmith08 on June 23, 2007, 10:57:01 AM
Friedrich Schorr (http://www.bassocantante.com/opera/schorr.html) singing Wotan's farewell from Die Walküre. The sound isn't great, but you can still see the power and sheer majesty of his voice.
Wow! :D I see why he's the favorite of so many.
Quote from: jochanaan on June 23, 2007, 04:39:10 PM
Wow! :D I see why he's the favorite of so many.
Schorr was incredible: his Wanderer from that compilation
Siegfried might as well be the beginning and end of that role. The only bass who, in my opinion, comes close is John Tomlinson, but compared to Schorr, even he is a bit weak and wobbly. I should say, too, that Donald McIntyre, for Boulez, has that same nobility and depth - not to mention power - but I find him a little brittle at times.
Quote from: Maciek on June 23, 2007, 04:38:41 PM
You can listen to some Jan Kiepura samples here:
Opera Arias (http://www.merlin.com.pl/frontend/browse/product/4,36759.html)
Brunetki, blondynki. The best of... (http://www.merlin.com.pl/frontend/browse/product/4,502183.html)
Cracow 1958 live (http://www.merlin.com.pl/frontend/browse/product/4,477736.html) (one of his last concerts I understand)
Czarowna melodia nocy (http://www.merlin.com.pl/frontend/browse/product/4,351163.html)
And here is Ada Sari (http://www.merlin.com.pl/frontend/browse/product/4,445090.html).
And here is Wanda Werminska (http://www.merlin.com.pl/frontend/browse/product/4,477689.html) (1897-1988 so I'm not sure she still fits in here).
Couldn't find anything better, I'm afraid - just these short clips. :-\
Maciek, I enjoyed both the female voices a lot, so different from one another. The sound in quie a few of the clips puts them on the outer edge of what I like to listen to. A pity, especially in the case of Ada Sari, as she is pretty spetacular, most so in the upper reaches of her voice where the voice takes on even more individuality and glamour.
Mike
Here are some 30 second clips of Margarete Klose
http://www.cdconnection.com/details/Margarete_Klose__Legendary_Voices-_Margarete_Klose_2/896100?source=none
Mike
Gosh, one of my favorite subjects from time we inherited a granduncle's opera 78's from the 1920's.
Those without Victrolas can however listen to those great voices of the past in the 3 CD
"History of Covent Garden".
The following is my lucky find of the day, Lemeshev in Lensky's aria, prompted by the link on Mark Reizen, quite extraordinary, similar to Gigli in spirit and technique:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MzO56PmjQ4
ZB
Quote from: zamyrabyrd on June 29, 2007, 08:13:16 AM
The following is my lucky find of the day, Lemeshev in Lensky's aria, prompted by the link on Mark Reizen, quite extraordinary, similar to Gigli in spirit and technique:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MzO56PmjQ4
ZB
Here you should be able to listen to whole Onegin with Lemeshev online.
Click on Preview/Прослушать
Onegin from '36 under Nebolsin
http://www.russiandvd.com/store/product.asp?sku=31498&genreid= (http://www.russiandvd.com/store/product.asp?sku=31498&genreid=)
Onegin from '55 under Khaikin
http://www.russiandvd.com/store/product.asp?sku=35763&genreid= (http://www.russiandvd.com/store/product.asp?sku=35763&genreid=)
or you could listen to Onegin with his big 'rival' Ivan Kozlovsky as Lensky from '48 under Orlov
http://www.russiandvd.com/store/product.asp?sku=35073&lang=eng (http://www.russiandvd.com/store/product.asp?sku=35073&lang=eng)
Streams are 48 Kbps, not great but fine enough.
Quote from: Drasko on June 29, 2007, 11:02:17 AM
...you could listen to Onegin with his big 'rival' Ivan Kozlovsky as Lensky from '48 under Orlov
http://www.russiandvd.com/store/product.asp?sku=35073&lang=eng (http://www.russiandvd.com/store/product.asp?sku=35073&lang=eng)
Thanx. Kozlovsky is available however as Lensky on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gX36yjaaJ4
Quite different from Lemeshev (whom I prefer for musical and vocal reasons), but fascinating. The clip starts with he and his infant daughter doodling over the piano keys and him warming up before you see his solitary figure against the snow.
But there were
three tenorseven in Russia. The missing member of this troika even from the Bolshoi's current website, is Solomon Khromchenko. A contemporary of the other two, also sang Lensky hundreds of times on the Bolshoi stage but his Jewishness might have something to do with his artistic contributions having been played down. Unfortunately for his fans, there is no extant recording of his singing that role. Melodiya however put out in the 80's a retrospective Russian and Jewish folksongs excellently sung by him.
Seeing the clip on youtube, I was immediately struck by the magnetic handsomeness of Lemeshev. This trait was not lost on the crowds of women waiting for him outside the Bolshoi Theatre. However, as things go, he also was lost to us girls. Though his alleged homosexuality was probably not unknown to the Stalinist goons, there was probably a heavy dose of hypocrisy in covering it up. Had it surfaced, he would probably have disappeared in Siberia.
ZB
Quote from: jochanaan on June 22, 2007, 03:25:52 PM
Uh--Caruso? :D
Enrico Caruso is certainly legendary. He has a rock solid, steady and powerful, dark and baritonal tenor voice which he used (mostly) with very good taste. Not a "brainy" singer, but one with a good musical instinct. He has incredible stamina too, like Lauritz Melchior.
One caveat: Caruso died in 1921, which means he only recorded in the era of
acoustical recordings. Basically that means that someone sang into a giant horn without any form of electrical amplification. But on the other hand part of his fame was due to the fact that his particular voice turned out so well in the process. But don't expect the fuller sound and greater immediacy of the later electrical recordings of the late 20's and 30's.
Recommendations. Well, obviously one could try some issues in Naxos' excellent Caruso Edition which is chronologically assembled and includes multiple recordings of some arias and songs.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51F4KMBDJJL._AA240_.jpg) (http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/411ZMR0PN8L._AA240_.jpg)
Samples (http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Recordings-Vol-9/dp/B00009VGCY/ref=pd_sim_m_2_img/104-2606979-2921527?ie=UTF8&qid=1183216923&sr=1-3)
Pearl had three excellent volumes of highlights of their earlier Caruso Editon (like the Naxos transferred by Ward Marston), called: Caruso sings French Opera and song, Caruso sings Italian Opera, and Caruso sings Verdi.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/6163R3FSNVL._AA240_.jpg) (http://img.hmv.co.jp/image/jacket/190/00/4/8/240.jpg)
Samples (http://www.amazon.com/Caruso-sings-French-Opera-Song/dp/B000000WNH/ref=sr_1_5/104-2606979-2921527?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1183217022&sr=1-5)
Samples (http://www.amazon.com/Verdi-Itallan-Vol-II-Antonio-Scotti/dp/B000000WNG/ref=sr_1_4/104-2606979-2921527?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1183217022&sr=1-4)
Another issue which seems to give a good cross section in reportedly good transfers is the twofer on ASV Living Era. I have had positive experiences with their transfers.
Review on Classicstoday (http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=3705)
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/514RJ4V0BZL._AA240_.jpg)
Samples (http://www.amazon.com/Tenor-Century-Classical-Recordings-1903-1920/dp/B0000542HK/ref=sr_1_4/104-2606979-2921527?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1183217593&sr=1-4)
Q
Many kudos for another incredibly informative and useful post, Q!
Hope you are enjoying this fine weekend. :)
Quote from: zamyrabyrd on June 29, 2007, 08:13:16 AM
Gosh, one of my favorite subjects from time we inherited a granduncle's opera 78's from the 1920's.
Those without Victrolas can however listen to those great voices of the past in the 3 CD
"History of Covent Garden".
The following is my lucky find of the day, Lemeshev in Lensky's aria, prompted by the link on Mark Reizen, quite extraordinary, similar to Gigli in spirit and technique:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MzO56PmjQ4
ZB
Here is the correct link with
Sergei Lemeshev at Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW52SsL4hHo)
And the same aria with
Ivan Kozlovsky at Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gX36yjaaJ4&mode=related&search=) (clips starts at home, but after a minute the fragment with the aria follows.)
It makes for an interesting comparison of these rivals! :)
I'm partial to Kozlovsky btw... :) Lemeshev's voice is brighter, firmer, full blooded and he sings in a more flowing way - he goes for the "heroïc" approach. But I like Kozlovsky's smaller, more intimate way, sophistication and sensitivity - his style is more like his predecessors. He goes deeper into the psychology of the aria IMO.
Discs with Kozlovsky and Lemeshev (undoubtedly there is more on Russian labels).
(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/51AW6J2MENL._SS500_.jpg) (http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/39/286439.jpg)
Samples (http://www.amazon.com/Ivan-Kozlovsky-Great-Russian-Tenor/dp/B00070DKS2/ref=sr_1_5/104-2606979-2921527?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1183273673&sr=1-5)
Samples (http://www.preiserrecords.at/album.php?ean=717281891646)
Kozlovsky and Lemeshev had two illustrious predecessors:
Leonid Sobinov and
Dmitri Smirnov.
Sobinov (http://www.cantabile-subito.de/Tenors/Sobinov__Leonid/hauptteil_sobinov__leonid.html) was the older one, his recordings are not as prolific as Smirnov's.
I like both. Sobinov is the modest, intelligent, sensible singer.
Smirnov is anything but modest! He sounds like a "prima diva" with some idiosyncratic streaks, but highly sophiticated and intelligent, with heaps of charisma and charm.
Recommendations:
(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Dy5st%2BvIL._AA240_.jpg) (http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41D19SYQWDL._AA240_.jpg) (http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/5194BY6AFWL._SS500_.jpg)
Samples (http://www.amazon.com/HMV-Historic-Catalogue-Recordings/dp/B00002EPNK/ref=sr_1_4/104-2606979-2921527?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1183275822&sr=1-4)
Samples (//http://)
Samples (http://www.amazon.com/Dmitri-Smirnov-Arias-Arrigo-Boito/dp/B000000WRA/ref=sr_1_23/104-2606979-2921527?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1183276180&sr=1-23)
For a selection of early Russian tenors (including a substantial selection with Sobinov and Smirnov):
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/57/524257.jpg) (http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/43/526643.jpg)
And the later generation:
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/44/40444.jpg)
Q
PS If any of the links is incorrect, please PM me!
This was a technically very complicated post. :)
Quote from: Que on July 01, 2007, 12:09:16 AM
I'm partial to Kozlovsky btw...
Me too, but his singing is probably bit of acquired taste.
Do you know perhaps the dates for those Onegin arias on that Pearl CD?
There was on Melodiya LPs recording (never on CD I think) of him singing (in russian presumably) Britten's Serenade for Tenor, Horn and Strings under Rozhdestvensky. I'd love to hear that.
Quote from: Que on July 01, 2007, 12:09:16 AM
Here is the correct link with Sergei Lemeshev at Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW52SsL4hHo)
PS If any of the links is incorrect, please PM me!
This was a technically very complicated post. :)
Hi Que,
Actually posting the wrong link was to see who would catch it first. ::) That it would take so long is perhaps indicative of summer slump. So you get the prize and also thanks for the correction.
Listening to the Heldentenor Melchior and reading about him was informative, especially the ckip when he was still a baritone doing "Provenza il Mar" in 1913 where there was a noticable strain. Fortunately a lady singer told him to move up to the top of the class. The baritonal quality of Caruso is pretty evident here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iAj2aPdQnk
I was searching for the "Pearl Fishers" on youtube for Gigli, quite different from Caruso. I have two audio recordings one from the late 20's and the other from about 1935. The earlier one has even a more floating quality that Caruso avoids. But lacking on video that one can hear his artistry in Traviata:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9ja7W9mCxI
Now Emma Berger in the above clip has that girlish quality similar to Ada Sari and seemed to have been cultivated by other sopranos at least until the 1930's. The result is a marked transparency of voices singing together but the possibility of hearing each one separately.
ZB
Quote from: Que on June 22, 2007, 12:25:39 AM
I noticed an interest amongst posters for historical singers - let's say singers roughly from the pre-war, 78rpm era.
please post your favourite historical singers!
- Why do you like them?
- In what repertoire did they excel?
- Which recordings do you recommend?
Have fun. :)
Q
This one recorded live in May 18, 1936 is astounding.......
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41YNB88ER4L.jpg)
Kristen Flagstad is arguably the greatest Isolde of them all......
marvin
Quote from: marvinbrown on July 06, 2007, 06:08:35 AM
Kirsten Flagstad is arguably the greatest Isolde of them all......
I'd agree completely with that statement, if you changed "Isolde" to "Wagnerian soprano." Heck, I'd probably agree with, "Kirsten Flagstad is the greatest of them all." When Wilhelm Furtwängler premiered Strauss'
Vier letzte Lieder (Flagstad singing) in 1950, the second half of the program had Wagner excerpts (that's not entirely fair, the program began with Wagner) including the final scenes of
Tristan und Isolde (the "Liebestod," though that's not what Wagner called it) and
Götterdämmerung. Having Flagstad in some of what could be called the greatest soprano material of all time, the Strauss
Lieder and the Wagner scenes, with Furtwängler conducting the Philharmonia. That's as good as it gets. Testament just released the concert (22 May 1950) as it stands: it's missing a
Meistersinger overture and the
Siegfried-Idyll. The sound isn't great, but when you have performances like these, you could record it on a wax cylinder.
Quote from: PSmith08 on July 06, 2007, 07:30:48 AM
I'd agree completely with that statement, if you changed "Isolde" to "Wagnerian soprano." Heck, I'd probably agree with, "Kirsten Flagstad is the greatest of them all."
Personally I'd place Leider above Flagstad. Flagstad's singing is undeniably secure and solid, but, for me, too much of her own personality comes through: the pragmatic, down to earth and somewhat prosaic side of her character. This is the Flagstad who said that the most important factor for a successful performance of Isolde was "comfortable shoes", and who was shocked at Lotte Lehmann's acting as Sieglinde, commenting that Lehmann behaved on stage with the tenor in a way that a woman should only behave with her husband. Leider sings with far greater freedom and abandon. Towards the end of her career, the top of the voice became a little wayward, but then so did Flagstad's (Schwarzkopf famously providing the top Cs in the Furtwaengler recording of
Tristan und Isolde). Leider also had a genuine trill in her armoury, and, yes, Wagner does ask for one, when Brunnhilde makes her first entrance in
Die Walkure.
On the subject of great Wagner singers of the past, this is a tremendous set.
(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/510XTWGY6NL._SS500_.jpg)
A major discovery for me was Marjorie Lawrence, an Australian mezzo (or more properly
falcon), who made her name in France. She was struck down with polio at the age of 32, but nevertheless continued to sing such roles as Venus in
Tannhauser lying down and Amneris from a litter. She sang both Brangane and Isolde, Ortrud and Brunnhilde, and Salome.
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on July 06, 2007, 08:40:02 AM
Personally I'd place Leider above Flagstad. Flagstad's singing is undeniably secure and solid, but, for me, too much of her own personality comes through: the pragmatic, down to earth and somewhat prosaic side of her character. This is the Flagstad who said that the most important factor for a successful performance of Isolde was "comfortable shoes", and who was shocked at Lotte Lehmann's acting as Sieglinde, commenting that Lehmann behaved on stage with the tenor in a way that a woman should only behave with her husband. Leider sings with far greater freedom and abandon. Towards the end of her career, the top of the voice became a little wayward, but then so did Flagstad's (Schwarzkopf famously providing the top Cs in the Furtwaengler recording of Tristan und Isolde). Leider also had a genuine trill in her armoury, and, yes, Wagner does ask for one, when Brunnhilde makes her first entrance in Die Walkure.
That's all fair, though I think the "comfortable shoes" comment is Birgit Nilsson's (it certainly made the rounds on her passing). For me, not to disparage Leider, Varnay (who never gets her due), or Nilsson - and certainly to disparage the current crop of Wagnerian sopranos, Flagstad had a power and nobility of tone that really makes up for her occasional vocal fussiness and her somewhat more than occasional reserve. Though, we should consider Helen Traubel and (oddly enough) Eileen Farrell in this, too.
Quote from: PSmith08 on July 06, 2007, 08:58:59 AM
That's all fair, though I think the "comfortable shoes" comment is Birgit Nilsson's (it certainly made the rounds on her passing). For me, not to disparage Leider, Varnay (who never gets her due), or Nilsson - and certainly to disparage the current crop of Wagnerian sopranos, Flagstad had a power and nobility of tone that really makes up for her occasional vocal fussiness and her somewhat more than occasional reserve. Though, we should consider Helen Traubel and (oddly enough) Eileen Farrell in this, too.
I stand corrected. The
comfortable shoes comment was Nilsson. The comment on Lotte Lehmann is illustrative, however.
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on July 06, 2007, 08:40:02 AM
Personally I'd place Leider above Flagstad. Flagstad's singing is undeniably secure and solid, but, for me, too much of her own personality comes through: the pragmatic, down to earth and somewhat prosaic side of her character. This is the Flagstad who said that the most important factor for a successful performance of Isolde was "comfortable shoes", and who was shocked at Lotte Lehmann's acting as Sieglinde, commenting that Lehmann behaved on stage with the tenor in a way that a woman should only behave with her husband. Leider sings with far greater freedom and abandon. Towards the end of her career, the top of the voice became a little wayward, but then so did Flagstad's (Schwarzkopf famously providing the top Cs in the Furtwaengler recording of Tristan und Isolde). Leider also had a genuine trill in her armoury, and, yes, Wagner does ask for one, when Brunnhilde makes her first entrance in Die Walkure[/
On the subject of great Wagner singers of the past, this is a tremendous set.
(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/510XTWGY6NL._SS500_.jpg)
A major discovery for me was Marjorie Lawrence, an Australian mezzo (or more properly falcon), who made her name in France. She was struck down with polio at the age of 32, but nevertheless continued to sing such roles as Venus in Tannhauser lying down and Amneris lying down. She sang both Brangane and Isolde, Ortrud and Brunnhilde, and Salome.
There is a movie about Marjorie Lawrence that is rather decent, at least IMO. I remember at end of the movie that Lawrence is shown on an opera stage singing some opera (I think it was Wagner but forgot which opera). I am sure Iago will know the title of the movie and the name of the opera if someone wants to ask him.
Bidu Sayou,a great Brazillian soprano.Gorgeous voice.
Bidu Sayou - i second that one. What a lovely voice she had. I have a version of her and a very young Richard Tucker in La Boheme-it is terrific.
What about Antonio Cortis-the Spanish tenor. Another great voice from the past. His Nessum Dorma is very highly regarded.
And i do enjoy Tagliavini. I bought cds with him in L'arlesiana and La Boheme. In both he is beautiful-especially in L'Arlesiana.
Quote from: Lady Chatterley on July 06, 2007, 02:30:57 PM
Bidu Sayou,a great Brazillian soprano.Gorgeous voice.
Quote from: yashin on July 07, 2007, 02:45:14 AM
Bidu Sayou - i second that one. What a lovely voice she had. I have a version of her and a very young Richard Tucker in La Boheme-it is terrific.
Thirded! :) Bidú Say
ão had beautiful voice and a strong personality.
Two of my favourite issues with her - that Villa Lobos is absolutely devastating!
(Wasn't she a gorgeous looking woman?)
Some info on her career. (http://bassocantante.com/opera/sayao.html)
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/518WnQk2%2BIL._SS500_.jpg) (http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51D2GZSMFFL._SS500_.jpg)
Samples (http://www.amazon.com/Bidu-Sayao-Opera-Brazilian-Folksongs/dp/B0000029PG/ref=sr_1_1/104-2606979-2921527?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1183805963&sr=1-1)
Samples (http://www.amazon.com/Damoiselle-elue-Opera-Arias/dp/B0000029YH/ref=sr_1_7/104-2606979-2921527?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1183805963&sr=1-7)
Q
Quote from: Que on July 07, 2007, 03:11:43 AM
(Wasn't she a gorgeous looking woman?)
Indeed, I was thinking that just before I read your post! :)
Quote from: Que on July 07, 2007, 03:11:43 AM
Bidú Sayão had beautiful voice and a strong personality.
.........that Villa Lobos is absolutely devastating!
Portion of it can be heard here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYjnBELqqLA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYjnBELqqLA)
Quote from: Anne on July 06, 2007, 02:13:42 PM
There is a movie about Marjorie Lawrence that is rather decent. I am sure Iago will know the title of the movie and the name of the opera if someone wants to ask him.
The name of the film was "Interrupted Melody". It starred Eleanor Parker as Marjorie Lawrence and Glenn Ford as her husband. I believe that Ms. Parkers singing voice was actually that of Eileen Farrell. And if memory serves me correctly the last segment of opera depicted in that film was either the Liebestod from T and I, or Brunnhildes Immolation from Gotterdammerung.
And although not credited as such, the musical performances (orchestral accompaniment) were provided by the Los Angeles Philharmonic under Vladimir Golschmann. Unusually good, for Hollywood.
Quote from: Iago on July 07, 2007, 11:54:25 PM
The name of the film was "Interrupted Melody". It starred Eleanor Parker as Marjorie Lawrence and Glenn Ford as her husband. I believe that Ms. Parkers singing voice was actually that of Eileen Farrell. And if memory serves me correctly the last segment of opera depicted in that film was either the Liebestod from T and I, or Brunnhildes Immolation from Gotterdammerung.
And although not credited as such, the musical performances (orchestral accompaniment) were provided by the Los Angeles Philharmonic under Vladimir Golschmann. Unusually good, for Hollywood.
Thanks for that. I'll have to look out for it.
Thanks, Iago
Quote from: PSmith08 on July 06, 2007, 07:30:48 AM
I'd agree completely with that statement, if you changed "Isolde" to "Wagnerian soprano." Heck, I'd probably agree with, "Kirsten Flagstad is the greatest of them all." When Wilhelm Furtwängler premiered Strauss' Vier letzte Lieder (Flagstad singing) in 1950, the second half of the program had Wagner excerpts (that's not entirely fair, the program began with Wagner) including the final scenes of Tristan und Isolde (the "Liebestod," though that's not what Wagner called it) and Götterdämmerung. Having Flagstad in some of what could be called the greatest soprano material of all time, the Strauss Lieder and the Wagner scenes, with Furtwängler conducting the Philharmonia. That's as good as it gets. Testament just released the concert (22 May 1950) as it stands: it's missing a Meistersinger overture and the Siegfried-Idyll. The sound isn't great, but when you have performances like these, you could record it on a wax cylinder.
WOW I did not know that Flagstad was so popular...I rarely hear her name on the opera boards. I am so glad that others find her fascinating. Regarding that historical recording of Flagstad in Tristan und Isolde, I discovered that recording by accident and it blew me away. I also understand and I think Tsaraslondon would help me out here that Callas sang the role of Isolde a long time ago (legendary recording)? Is this true?
marvin
Quote from: marvinbrown on July 08, 2007, 01:16:12 PM
WOW I did not know that Flagstad was so popular...I rarely hear her name on the opera boards. I am so glad that others find her fascinating. Regarding that historical recording of Flagstad in Tristan und Isolde, I discovered that recording by accident and it blew me away. I also understand and I think Tsaraslondon would help me out here that Callas sang the role of Isolde a long time ago (legendary recording)? Is this true?
marvin
Callas sang Isolde, Brunnhilde and Kundry in her youth, and she recorded the Liebstod (in Italian) for Cetra in 1949. It is a lovely, warm and feminine performance. She returned to the music once in 1957, when she programmed the Liebstod into a concert in Athens, which was also recorded. We are also fortunate that there exists a complete performance of
Parsifal with her as Kundry, though again in Italian. This recording is much more than a curiosity. Though the tenor is pretty forgettable, there are notable contributions from Boris Christoff as Gurnemanz, Rolando Panerai as Amfortas and from the conductor, Vittorio Gui. This must be the only performance of the opera, featuring two famous Lucias. Lina Pagliughi was also in the cast as one of the Flower Maidens.
Mention of Brunnhilde reminds me that it was while Callas was singing the role in
Die Walkure, that she made a sensation by deputising for an ailing Margareta Carosio in Bellini's
I Puritani. All she knew of the part was the Mad Scene, but she learned the opera in between performances of
Die Walkure, and went on to have a enormous triumph as Elvira a couple of nights after the Wagner opera. Thus was history made.
Another modified vote for Flagstad. Like some others, I find her a bit cool temperamentally, but she offers so very much that is basically missing from most of the singers presently attempting this repertoire now.
Mike
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on July 08, 2007, 02:39:21 PM
Callas sang Isolde, Brunnhilde and Kundry in her youth, and she recorded the Liebstod (in Italian) for Cetra in 1949. It is a lovely, warm and feminine performance. She returned to the music once in 1957, when she programmed the Liebstod into a concert in Athens, which was also recorded. We are also fortunate that there exists a complete performance of Parsifal with her as Kundry, though again in Italian. This recording is much more than a curiosity. Though the tenor is pretty forgettable, there are also notable contributions from Boris Christoff as Gurnemanz, Rolando Panerai as Amfortas and from the conductor, Vittorio Gui. This must be the only performance of the opera, featuring two famous Lucias. Lina Pagliughi was also in the cast as one of the Flower Maidens.
After I read your post I was intrigued and went looking for this recording. I found the following old recording of Callas's Liebstod from Athens in 1957 (does that count as a legendary recording? I am hoping yes and that the judges would rule in my favor :) ) though I did not know that she sang it in Italian. Then again Wagner never had a problem with his operas being translated...I can't wait to hear this. The Kundry role in Parsifal is news to me...I'll have to check this out too.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41VB00B93NL._SS500_.jpg)
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on July 08, 2007, 02:39:21 PM
Mention of Brunnhilde reminds me that it was while Callas was singing the role in Die Walkure, that she made a sensation by deputising for an ailing Margareta Carosio in Bellini's I Puritani. All she knew of the part was the Mad Scene, but she learned the opera in between performances of Die Walkure, and went on to have a enormous triumph as Elvira a couple of nights after the Wagner opera. Thus was history made.
Yes Callas was special that way...so versatile and talented. If I am not mistaken she once responded when asked about her rivalry with Renata Tibaldi (another legendary singer) by saying that when Tebaldi can sing a Wagnarian role (she refered to Die Walkure) and an Italian opera aria role then maybe then you can compare her to me.....another famous quote she had relating to her rivalry with Tebaldi went something along the lines that comparing Tebaldi to Callas is like comparing Coca Cola to Champagne....that one always puts a smile on my face. (BY the way I love Renata Tebaldi too)
marvin
Quote from: marvinbrown on July 08, 2007, 03:17:54 PM
Yes Callas was special that way...so versatile and talented. If I am not mistaken she once responded when asked about her rivalry with Renata Tibaldi (another legendary singer) by saying that when Tebaldi can sing a Wagnarian role (she refered to Die Walkure) and an Italian opera aria role then maybe then you can compare her to me.....another famous quote she had relating to her rivalry with Tebaldi went something along the lines that comparing Tebaldi to Callas is like comparing Coca Cola to Champagne....that one always puts a smile on my face. (BY the way I love Renata Tebaldi too)
marvin
Marvin, I wouldn't want to disparage Tebaldi, who was also a great singer, and who, incidentally, sang at least two Wagner roles in her early career - Elsa and Eva. Wikipedia tell the Coca-Cola story differently, thus:
The culmination of this rivalry came in an article in Time magazine where Callas was quoted as saying that comparing herself to Tebaldi was like comparing champagne with Coca-Cola. However, witnesses to the interview stated that Callas only said "champagne with cognac" after which a bystander quippped, "No, with Coca-Cola", but the Time reporter attributed the comment to Callas.Of course they were both very different singers and should never really have been compared, though Tebaldi commented in later life that the attendant publicity did neither of them any harm.
Quote from: marvinbrown on July 08, 2007, 01:16:12 PM
WOW I did not know that Flagstad was so popular...I rarely hear her name on the opera boards. I am so glad that others find her fascinating. Regarding that historical recording of Flagstad in Tristan und Isolde, I discovered that recording by accident and it blew me away. I also understand and I think Tsaraslondon would help me out here that Callas sang the role of Isolde a long time ago (legendary recording)? Is this true?
marvin
Flagstad's apparent relative obscurity is news to me. As far as I ever knew, the debate over Wagnerian sopranos of that stripe (i.e., grand and noble voices, though not to everyone's liking) came down to Flagstad and Nilsson, with Varnay sort of floating around the edges. I tend to prefer Flagstad to Nilsson, but I also like to take a broad view of the classic Wagner singer range.
Most of the modern singers, with some big exceptions, would have made serviceable understudies to the greats of the past. Not much more, though.
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on July 08, 2007, 03:28:45 PM
Marvin, I wouldn't want to disparage Tebaldi, who was also a great singer, and who, incidentally, sang at least two Wagner roles in her early career - Elsa and Eva. Wikipedia tell the Coca-Cola story differently, thus:
The culmination of this rivalry came in an article in Time magazine where Callas was quoted as saying that comparing herself to Tebaldi was like comparing champagne with Coca-Cola. However, witnesses to the interview stated that Callas only said "champagne with cognac" after which a bystander quippped, "No, with Coca-Cola", but the Time reporter attributed the comment to Callas.
Of course they were both very different singers and should never really have been compared, though Tebaldi commented in later life that the attendant publicity did neither of them any harm.
Oh I stand corrected then- these rumours get out of hand don't they. I am surprised to hear that Tebaldi sang (Elsa) from Lohengrin and Eva from Meistersinger. Here I go again with another rumour but wasn't it Tebaldi that said later on in her career that she only preferred to sing in Italian as French was too "nasally" and German was too rough or coarse or "throaty"?
marvin
Quote from: PSmith08 on July 08, 2007, 04:54:45 PM
Flagstad's apparent relative obscurity is news to me. As far as I ever knew, the debate over Wagnerian sopranos of that stripe (i.e., grand and noble voices, though not to everyone's liking) came down to Flagstad and Nilsson, with Varnay sort of floating around the edges. I tend to prefer Flagstad to Nilsson, but I also like to take a broad view of the classic Wagner singer range.
Most of the modern singers, with some big exceptions, would have made serviceable understudies to the greats of the past. Not much more, though.
Somehow I would like to think that these great legendary singers cast a hidden or latent (what word works best here I do not know?) shadow over the modern singers. I would like to think that Callas, Flagstad, Tebaldi and Nilsson are names that will continue to echo through time......setting the standard to which modern singers are measured.
marvin
Quote from: marvinbrown on July 09, 2007, 02:01:27 AM
Oh I stand corrected then- these rumours get out of hand don't they. I am surprised to hear that Tebaldi sang (Elsa) from Lohengrin and Eva from Meistersinger. Here I go again with another rumour but wasn't it Tebaldi that said later on in her career that she only preferred to sing in Italian as French was too "nasally" and German was too rough or coarse or "throaty"?
marvin
I don't know whether that is true or not, but Tebaldi, like Callas, would have sung her Wagner roles in Italian anyway.
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on July 09, 2007, 02:44:23 PM
I don't know whether that is true or not, but Tebaldi, like Callas, would have sung her Wagner roles in Italian anyway.
Good point....I completely missed that :).
marvin
My baritone find of the year
(http://img.ruslania.com/pictures/big/220635-Lisitsian.jpg)
Some biographical info (http://www.armeniapedia.org/index.php?title=Pavel_Lisitsian)
I've ripped and uploaded Di Provenza il Mar from the disc above, find it excellent but I'm no vocal expert so hear for yourselves. The language is touch wrong but I find everything else very right.
Di Provenza il Mar
Pavel Lisitsian / Bolshoi Theatre Orch. / Alexander Orlov (1948)
4:41 min. 9 MB mp3 @ 256 Kbps
http://rapidshare.com/files/45997792/Di_Provenza_il_Mar__in_russian_.mp3.html (http://rapidshare.com/files/45997792/Di_Provenza_il_Mar__in_russian_.mp3.html)
Bernd Aldenhoff
Only heard as Siegfried, and I prefer him to Windgassen.
Quote from: Manuel on August 01, 2007, 02:08:36 PM
Bernd Aldenhoff
Only heard as Siegfried, and I prefer him to Windgassen.
There is a
Parsifal and a
Holländer with Aldenhoff, too. In addition, there's a Preiser "Lebendige Vergangenheit" set with some
Tannhäuser and
Walküre selections.
Quote from: PSmith08 on August 01, 2007, 09:33:16 PM
There is a Parsifal and a Holländer with Aldenhoff, too. In addition, there's a Preiser "Lebendige Vergangenheit" set with some Tannhäuser and Walküre selections.
Thanks for the information. Even in OperaShare I'm having a hard time to find recordings of him. There's a 1951 Götterdämmerung with Varnay, under Knappertsbusch, I'm about to download right now.
Quote from: Manuel on August 02, 2007, 05:21:37 AM
Thanks for the information. Even in OperaShare I'm having a hard time to find recordings of him. There's a 1951 Götterdämmerung with Varnay, under Knappertsbusch, I'm about to download right now.
That
Götterdämmerung sounds splendid. If it's the one I'm thinking of, it's from Munich. Makes me almost want to join OperaShare. ;)
Quote from: PSmith08 on August 02, 2007, 10:21:12 AM
That Götterdämmerung sounds splendid. If it's the one I'm thinking of, it's from Munich. Makes me almost want to join OperaShare. ;)
The one at OShare is from Bayreuth
"DER RING DES NIBELUNGEN"Live recording in mono from
Festspielhaus Bayreuth
1951
Conductor: Hans Knappertsbusch
Chor & Orchester der Bayreuther Festspiele
"GOETTERDAEMMERUNG"
Hans Knappertsbusch
4.August 1951
Bruennhilde..............................Astrid Varnay
Siegfried................................Bernd Aldenhoff
Hagen....................................Ludwig Weber
Alberich.................................Heinrich Pflanzl
Gunther..................................Hermann Uhde
Gutrune..................................Martha Moedl
Waltraute................................Elisabeth Hoengen
1. Norne.................................Ruth Siewert
2. Norne.................................Ira Malaniuk
3. Norne.................................Martha Moedl
Woglinde.................................Elisabeth Schwarzkopf
Wellgunde................................Hanna Ludwig
Flosshilde...............................Hertha Toepper
Quote from: Manuel on August 02, 2007, 11:00:14 AM
The one at OShare is from Bayreuth
"DER RING DES NIBELUNGEN"
Live recording in mono from
Festspielhaus Bayreuth
1951
Conductor: Hans Knappertsbusch
Chor & Orchester der Bayreuther Festspiele
"GOETTERDAEMMERUNG"
Hans Knappertsbusch
4.August 1951
Bruennhilde..............................Astrid Varnay
Siegfried................................Bernd Aldenhoff
Hagen....................................Ludwig Weber
Alberich.................................Heinrich Pflanzl
Gunther..................................Hermann Uhde
Gutrune..................................Martha Moedl
Waltraute................................Elisabeth Hoengen
1. Norne.................................Ruth Siewert
2. Norne.................................Ira Malaniuk
3. Norne.................................Martha Moedl
Woglinde.................................Elisabeth Schwarzkopf
Wellgunde................................Hanna Ludwig
Flosshilde...............................Hertha Toepper
Ah, a great performance in its own right. All of the recordings I've heard from the 1951 Festspiele are special, including the electric Von Karajan
Walküre act 3. Uhde's Gunther is always something to behold, but I do generally prefer Josef Greindl or Gottlob Frick as Hagen. The Munich show is from 1955, in any event.
Again, you're making it hard for me not to do the OperaShare thing. ;)
Anyone know anything about Marcella Sembrich (Sembrich-Kochańska)? I came across her accidentally when looking around for old Moniuszko recordings. Of course - she's Polish, who else would be singing Moniuszko (apart from a couple of Lithuanians and Russians)? I'd be interested in informed opinions about her singing in general - and about the available recordings.
Quote from: knight on June 23, 2007, 10:39:52 PM
Maciek, I enjoyed both the female voices a lot, so different from one another. The sound in quie a few of the clips puts them on the outer edge of what I like to listen to. A pity, especially in the case of Ada Sari, as she is pretty spetacular, most so in the upper reaches of her voice where the voice takes on even more individuality and glamour.
Mike
I've recently found a few
Ada Sari clips on Youtube. For instance:
Rigoletto (Caro nome) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fdcDAcfJ_s)
Lucia di Lammermoor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWwSzpx2l9Q)
And from there you should be able to get to some Johann Strauss, Jan Gall (a Polish composer) and W.Friedman (not sure who that is).
And there's a little bit of
Wanda Werminska:
Samson et Dalila (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpKnlciXSFI)
Carmen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsbtnZroqic)
Triolet (by Moniuszko) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncE3HptXlHw)
This guy (http://www.youtube.com/user/swiadek1924) has got tons of extremely old recordings by Polish singers, many of them legendary. Unfortunately, it's a total mess, popular singers mixed with opera singers etc.
And this is something I posted in the Haunted Manor thread, because I had forgotten we had this place:
YouTube has some nice examples of
Bogna Sokorska's singing (as well as a terrible Queen of the Night). For instance this Alabiev (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUtZY0cOnaw) or the bell aria from Lakme (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tRPgzQcWMU) or Les Filles du Cadix (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrXjzDirlHA) (terrible French) or... this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFqkWA0j-1g&feature=PlayList&p=DC5259B10B4B0211&index=2&playnext=3&playnext_from=PL)!
Now that have all of the piano CDs on Marston, I may check out a few of the vocal releases.
Here's a link to their catalog (http://www.marstonrecords.com/html/catalogue.htm)
If anyone could recommend any of these singers/CDs I'd appreciate it. :)
Here's a link (http://www.youtube.com/user/marstonrecords#play/all/uploads-all/1/emKuJbuP4jE) to some cool videos from youtube's Marston Records channel most recent release, Rosalia Chalia On the videos, Ward discusses the singer's work and plays samples.
(http://www.marstonrecords.com/chalia/cover_chalia_lg.jpg)
Nothing from me George, I don't know enough on the subject.
Just wanted to add that Marcella Sembrich (Sembrich-Kochańska) is now to be found on YouTube too, though practically all of the recordings available at the moment were made when she was already past her prime (in her 50s and late 40s):
Qui la voce sua soave (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtFNOrA-Ids)
Chopin - Maiden's Wish (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB2RaKdLnX8) (she accompanies herself in this one, as she was a proficient pianist and violinist as well as a singer)
Ah non giunge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sDzxUuLjUw)
Casta Diva and Bello a me ritorna (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v4F4vM3Oqg)
Strauss - Voices of Spring (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9C2XfjjfhQ) (a 1900 recording, so this one catches her in her early 40s)
Geraldine Farrar and Enrico Caruso, what a couple in Boheme (1912)!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dfw5C1wygv0&feature=related
A little competition between the singers in the beginning of the duet, or maybe it's the recording, since the lovely Geraldine is somewhat drowned out. But what a gentleman Caruso is, not belting out an unwritten high C at the end and letting her beautiful fluted tone prevail.
A versitile soprano (like Moffo) who also sounded good in Carmen. Some risque filming for the time (1915) by Cecil G de Mille
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvQjh4uvPyc&NR=1&feature=fvwp
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ZmUfOkTPL._SL500_AA280_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51UNlWwJaKL._SL500_AA280_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51RzsP2FtUL._SL500_AA280_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51B801xq0aL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
I was inspired to expand the soprano collection from reading this thread to pre 1950 singers, and since Callas was so inspired by
Rosa Ponselle that was a must buy for me........but a great new discovery for me was Amelita Galli-Curci
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEYx-fdFt-4&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEYx-fdFt-4&feature=related)
Career cut short with throat surgery in mid 1930s that effectively ended her professional singing, I am just delighted with that Prima Voce sample disc!
Eva Turner in Turandot illuminates how that role can be sung, a reinvigoration of the music you'd never thought possible: that kind of cutting insight and artistic meaning, as per Callas or Nilsson, doesn't exist today at all.
Quote from: DarkAngel on August 16, 2009, 10:46:18 AM
I was inspired to expand the soprano collection from reading this thread to pre 1950 singers, and since Callas was so inspired by Rosa Ponselle that was a must buy for me........but a great new discovery for me was Amelita Galli-CurciI love her bold dramatic colortura style, love to hear artists capable of inventive expression
Career cut short with throat surgery in mid 1930s that effectively ended her professional singing, I am just delighted with that Prima Voce sample disc!
I discovered Muzio from the "Prima Voce" collection and have the Galli-Curci CD as well. Geraldine Farrar, an excellent singer herself, admired Galli-Curci, saying her voice was perfect, like the heart of a violet. This was the ideal back then, or at least for some singers. I knew Galli-Curci from 78's and wondered at her ability to sustain a high G alt at the end of "the Wren". Her amazing high notes were not piercing as in the "Spargi d'amaro pianto" from Lucia. She also sang current favorites like "The Last Rose of Summer".
ZB
Reading more about Amelita Galli-Curci..........
amazing story since she was trained as a concert pianist and won awards, but became a self taught soprano later!
Very popular in USA with NY Met and Chicago Opera, had large recording contract with RCA
http://craton.chez.com/musique/galli-curci/agcbio.htm (http://craton.chez.com/musique/galli-curci/agcbio.htm)
Is there a thread dedicated to recordings from the acoustic and electric eras? If not, would you be interested in commenting this issue in this thread?
Quote from: Harry Powell on March 26, 2011, 11:50:56 AM
Is there a thread dedicated to recordings from the acoustic and electric eras? If not, would you be interested in commenting this issue in this thread?
You've been transported to the requested thread. 8)
High time that somebody revived that interesting topic - thanks and have fun! :)
Q
Thank you very much, Que! I see you rank among the most interested users in the topic.
To begin with, I think I'll bring up Heinrich Schlusnus.
(http://www.weblaopera.com/blog_efemerides/imgs/Jun18/Schlusnus%20Heinrich.gif)
Heinrich Schlusnus (1888-1952) was born in Braubach-am-Rhein. While he earned his living as a post officer in Frankfurt he studied singing. He was enlisted to fight in WWI but was injured, returned his home and made his professional debut as the Herald in "Lohengrin". He sang in Berlin and Nürnberg and acquired further training from Louis Bachner. He started singing Lieder in1918, quickly becoming Germany's foremost performer. His international career took him to London, Chicago and Vienna. During the next two decades he headed the so-called "Verdi Renaissance" in Germany. This was his favourite repertoire, which he always sang in German. In 1934 he apppeared at the Bayreuth Festival as Amfortas (Helge Rosvaenge performed Parsifal). After WWII he left the stage ("Rigoletto" in 1948) but continued singing "Lieder" until 1951. He recorded abundantly, starring in a number of complete operas.
Schlusnus' voice corresponded with the Kavalier baritone from the Romantic Period prior to Verismo. It was a medium-weight voice which had a certain weakness in the low range but invested with full ringing upper tones. The timbre was remarkably clear but not pale: it was out of the ordinary in terms of harmonics. His singing delivery was flawless and knew no bounds to change the volume and shading of his voice. In both Lied and opera he reincarnated the Romantic performer: elegant and noble but not affected. His diction was incomparably clear and made almost forget that he was singing in German. According to John B. Steane, if there was a heir to Battistini, Schlusnus was the man. Once the great Italian baritones from the 20's had declined, he could be considered the greatest Verdi baritone.
Let's listen to some selections from "Rigoletto", "Un ballo in maschera", "Simon Boccanegra", "La Traviata" and "I vespri siciliani".
http://www.divshare.com/flash/playlist?myId=11509036-9dd
Schlusnus' last recording was a heart-rending performance of Mahler's "Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-SC8rbWYeI&playnext=1&list=PL0C4677B385AB2F0A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-SC8rbWYeI&playnext=1&list=PL0C4677B385AB2F0A)
Hope you like it.
Quote from: Harry Powell on March 26, 2011, 03:25:37 PM
Thank you very much, Que! I see you rank among the most interested users in the topic.
I'm interested as well and buy a few discs now and then (eg the EMI Icon series containing singers, as well as vol 1 of EMIs Great singers of the century)...but don't have enough expertise in this particular field to really contribute.
You shouldn't be intimidated by the topic! They're just singers. The recordings are old and some people might find them difficult to listen, but that's all. The amount of learning about singing you can obtain from these antique records is invaluable.
I wonder if anyone else has gone to the lengths I have for acoustic recordings. About ten years ago, I realized that CD reissues of 50s material often didn't sound much like the original LP release. I wondered if the same was true of 78s, so I did my research and got a turntable and a set of needles for 78s. I started experiencing with digital sound restoration and equalization curves and got some good results.
My brother has had a suitcase Victrola since he was a boy. I brought a few acoustic recordings over to his house and played them. I was blown away by the presence, volume and low noise level when played back acoustically. It sounded nothing like any CD I had ever heard. I bought a Victrola with a standard acoustic era soundbox and set to work trying to do a digital transfer that sounded the way it did coming out of the horn. I got very close, but it took a massive amount of very exacting work. Later I got a phonograph with an orthophonic sound box and tried to do the same with early electricals. That was considerably easier.
There is some peculiar acoustic property of acoustic playback that operates on a different level than modern sound reproduction. It's as if there are qualities beyond frequency response, distortion and dynamic range. I have a million theories on what these properties might be.
There's nothing like hearing Caruso played back on a well maintained acoustic phonograph. It makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up.
Quote from: bigshot on March 27, 2011, 09:17:10 AM
There's nothing like hearing Caruso played back on a well maintained acoustic phonograph. It makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up.
Fascinating subject! Since he sang into a horn to create the master that was physically used to produce your record with no electronic alteration in between, it's probably as close to hearing Caruso's actual voice as you can get.
Bigshot: You made an interesting contribution. I have to be contented with digital transfers, though. I think that with a pair of in-ear Sennheiser headphones one can enjoy these recordings. It's surprising how vivid Carusos's voice can become when properly played. With conventional loudspeakers too much is missed.
What's your opinion on Obert-Thorn and Marston's restorations for Naxos?
But did anyone listen to Schlusnus?
Quote from: Harry Powell on March 27, 2011, 02:10:35 PM
But did anyone listen to Schlusnus?
I had some trouble with the mp3 clips but found recordings of his on youtube. It's nice to hear a lyric baritone in roles that usually are associated with more dramatic types. Here's the "Di Provenza" of Traviata done in German: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrFVW45yuyA
Dramatically well differentiated version of Erlkönig:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCuCiyii71U&feature=related
ZB
Hi zamyrabyrd
I checked the flash player and it works.
The topic on dramatic baritones' an interesting and misunderstood one. The dramatic Verdi baritone is not the stentorian singer-actor that many singers from the 50's developed relying on Verismo commonplaces. If you listen carefully to Stracciari, Danise and Amato, you feel that Schlusnus is closer to them than Bastianini, Guelfi or Gobbi.
Harry, I love Schlusnus and know these wonderful Verdi recordings, as I do the late Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen (not Des Knaben Wunderhorn) you link to. Another song cycle he recorded (1939) was the very first of all song cycles, Beethoven's An die ferne Geliebte. It is still my favourite. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2CtEnVx-c0
What fantastic legato combined with perfect enunciation - which as you say makes one (temporarily) accept the German as right for the music.
I have to listen to the Beethoven!
Thanks for the correction. Schlusnus also recorded two songs from "Das Knaben Wunderhorn", but it was many years earlier.
Quote from: Szykneij on March 27, 2011, 09:31:12 AM
Fascinating subject! Since he sang into a horn to create the master that was physically used to produce your record with no electronic alteration in between, it's probably as close to hearing Caruso's actual voice as you can get.
There's actually an interesting effect when played back using a horn. Caruso stood a few feet back from the recording horn when he sang. On playback in an acoustic Victrola, there is an aural image of Caruso's voice projected a few feet in front of the phonograph. It gives an eerie impression of an invisible person standing in the room in front of the phonograph. Also, there is no volume control on an acoustic phonograph. When in proper repair, the soundbox will reproduce the sound at the exact volume it was recorded. Whispers sound exactly like whispers and full voice sounds exactly like full voice. When this sound is combined with the natural acoustics ofthe listening room, it sounds exactly like the singer being in the room with you. This effect only really works with male voices. There is a sweet spot in the response of acoustic recording that favors tenors.
Quote from: bigshot on April 04, 2011, 04:09:14 PM
There is a sweet spot in the response of acoustic recording that favors tenors.
I would say it favors baritones. And tenors who had a baritone color as Caruso had.
Quote from: Harry Powell on March 27, 2011, 02:08:39 PMWhat's your opinion on Obert-Thorn and Marston's restorations for Naxos?
They both do very good transfers. MOT is very good at balancing noise reduction properly. It isn't the same as acoustic playback though. Acoustic sounds much more forceful and has almost no surface noise. Electrical reproduction picks up high and low frequencies that an acoustic soundbox mutes over. It's good to have the fuller bass of electrical playback, but acoustic is better at acting as a low pass filter to eliminate surface noise. There is just a steady whoosh. No crackle or clicks. I'll see if I can find the transfer I did trying to match the acoustic sound signature. It took a lot of work in noise reduction and some very strange equalization to do it. No one else seems to do it that way.
Quote from: Harry Powell on April 04, 2011, 04:15:03 PM
I would say it favors baritones. And tenors who had a baritone color as Caruso had.
Actually, when you hear it played on a gramophone, the tenors have the edge. Billy Murray, the popular singer, was the ideal voice for acoustic playback. The low end of the baritone voice can only be heard in electrical playback. The ideal is the acoustic clarity and energy up high and the electrical fullness below.
Quote from: bigshot on April 04, 2011, 04:19:32 PM
Actually, when you hear it played on a gramophone, the tenors have the edge. Billy Murray, the popular singer, was the ideal voice for acoustic playback. The low end of the baritone voice can only be heard in electrical playback. The ideal is the acoustic clarity and energy up high and the electrical fullness below.
That sounds interesting. Have you tried Lauri-Volpi's early recordings on acoustic playback? This is a singer whose records seems to lose a lot of harmonics in the upper range.
Here are a few of my transfers. First the acoustic sound signature tests (with added bass). These sound best through good speakers at a moderate volume.
http://www.vintageip.com/porcupinerag.mp3
http://www.vintageip.com/zipzipzip.mp3
The hardest job I ever did was Schnabel. The recording has a ton of dynamics and a high level of bacon crackle. Hard to restore without killing the soft passages. I tried to keep the percussiveness of the very quiet notes and the overall shapes of the tones and ring offs.
http://www.vintageip.com/eroicavariations.mp3
http://www.vintageip.com/diabellivariations.mp3
Some Wagner with Melchior and Lehmann. The experiment here was to try tp preserve the presence of the voices and the enunciation of the consonants. A lot of noise reduction techniques smear over the ends of sounds.
http://www.vintageip.com/melchior.mp3
http://www.vintageip.com/lehmann.mp3
.
(http://www.cantabile-subito.de/Baritones/Stracciari__Riccardo/stracciari2.jpg)
Riccardo Stracciari (1875-1955) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riccardo_Stracciari), baritone
"Largo al factotum" from Il Barbiere di Siviglia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1H9WyWLX-w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1H9WyWLX-w) (rather peculiar but nevertheless exceptional)
"Vien Leonora" from La Favorita: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17OLU3JvuJk&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17OLU3JvuJk&feature=related) (superb)
"Povero rigoletto...Cortigiani, vil razza dannata" from Rigoletto: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr5eiQtlMg0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr5eiQtlMg0) (hair-raising)
"Mira di acerbe lagrime" from Il Trovattore (with Rosa Ponselle): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWex6CpTW2k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWex6CpTW2k) (a match made in heaven)
Finally, O sole mio: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BPvo1G3u6c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BPvo1G3u6c) (some peculiarities here as well, but can one fault the result?)
I just love the way he stretched into tenor range in certain moments and even whole sequences. Definitely, one of the greatest baritones ever. I sometimes tend to credit those who lament such artistry as lost for ever.
Quote from: Il Conte Rodolfo on April 07, 2011, 05:13:09 AM
I just love the way he stretched into tenor range in certain moments and even whole sequences. Definitely, one of the greatest baritones ever. I sometimes tend to credit those who lament such artistry as lost for ever.
You've raised an interesting point here, although it's not exactly so. We are all too used to the excessive use of chest resonance of modern singers from lower strings. Then, when we listen to a baritone use the mask as it must be used by all strings, we tend to think "Stracciari invaded the tenor range... Galeffi had a clear voice... Pinza was a baritonal bass...". And as a matter of fact it's rather on the contrary: singers like Bastianini, Christoff and the like were wrong! Delivery, I mean, emission must be always clear and light to sing the upper range. A timbre will be clear or dark by nature. Many singers thought they must darken their voices to become more dramatic: in fact it's the power and squillo in the high notes what makes a singer dramatic. And this is only achieved by means of the high "impostazione" (I don't know if there's an English word for that) that Stracciari mastered.
I have remembered the word: placement.
As for Stracciari, you must listen to his rendition of "O de'verd'anni miei".
http://www.box.net/shared/rs42v5dxd3
If wonder if it could be considered one of the ten greatest "soloist" opera recordings ever made. Simply perfect.
Quote from: Harry Powell on April 07, 2011, 08:22:21 AM
You've raised an interesting point here, although it's not exactly so. We are all too used to the excessive use of chest resonance of modern singers from lower strings. Then, when we listen to a baritone use the mask as it must be used by all strings, we tend to think "Stracciari invaded the tenor range... Galeffi had a clear voice... Pinza was a baritonal bass...". And as a matter of fact it's rather on the contrary: singers like Bastianini, Christoff and the like were wrong! Delivery, I mean, emission must be always clear and light to sing the upper range. A timbre will be clear or dark by nature. Many singers thought they must darken their voices to become more dramatic: in fact it's the power and squillo in the high notes what makes a singer dramatic. And this is only achieved by means of the high "impostazione" (I don't know if there's an English word for that) that Stracciari mastered.
Interesting. Can you please point me to some examples of contemporary artists who fit this bill? Is there any Stracciari or Pinza today? (Obviously, the question is not about voice, but about technique).
As an aside, what do you think of Nicola Monti?
Quote from: Harry Powell on April 07, 2011, 08:52:05 AM
As for Stracciari, you must listen to his rendition of "O de'verd'anni miei".
http://www.box.net/shared/rs42v5dxd3
If wonder if it could be considered one of the ten greatest "soloist" opera recordings ever made. Simply perfect.
Splendid indeed, thanks for posting.
Hi Signor Conte,
Nobody like those names in the low strings for the last 70 years. Not even MacNeil, Bruson, Ghiaurov or Cappuccilli. I'm of the opinion that baritones and basses have lost the true technique since WWII.
In the upper strings (tenors and women) many singers retook that technique during the Sixties but nowadays just Flórez among tenors and a handful of sopranos sing like that. Unfortunately, Flórez has a very humble voice and you never get the impression of a Primo Tenore from him.
I'm very pessimistic about current singing. The public doesn't care a damn about technique and cannot recognise if a singer is doing the "passaggio" correctly. Then they marvel at the early decline of people like Villazón.
Quote from: Harry Powell on April 07, 2011, 11:38:10 AM
Hi Signor Conte,
Nobody like those names in the low strings for the last 70 years. Not even MacNeil, Bruson, Ghiaurov or Cappuccilli. I'm of the opinion that baritones and basses have lost the true technique since WWII.
In the upper strings (tenors and women) many singers retook that technique during the Sixties but nowadays just Flórez among tenors and a handful of sopranos sing like that. Unfortunately, Flórez has a very humble voice and you never get the impression of a Primo Tenore from him.
I'm very pessimistic about current singing. The public doesn't care a damn about technique and cannot recognise if a singer is doing the "passaggio" correctly. Then they marvel at the early decline of people like Villazón.
Thanks.
Florez is awful, IMHO.
Comparing him: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4Q0qiPq6uA&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4Q0qiPq6uA&feature=related) , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0DVSatYlNU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0DVSatYlNU)
with Tito Schippa: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL5heFfYQDE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL5heFfYQDE)
or Enzo de Muro Lomanto: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HLVh8AzJAE&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HLVh8AzJAE&feature=related)
is almost like a blasphemy. ;D
Speaking of Tito Schipa, is there anyone today who can better these?
http://www.youtube.com/user/Addiobelpassato#p/c/70A21D2C118DE4A4/11/j3hl6WaK9yw (http://www.youtube.com/user/Addiobelpassato#p/c/70A21D2C118DE4A4/11/j3hl6WaK9yw)
http://www.youtube.com/user/Addiobelpassato#p/c/70A21D2C118DE4A4/12/G5azOKSLuqY (http://www.youtube.com/user/Addiobelpassato#p/c/70A21D2C118DE4A4/12/G5azOKSLuqY)
I respect Flórez because he uses an excellent technique and knows something about style. I don't care for his voice but I'd never say he's awful since he gets the best from it. You cannot compare him with Schipa, who's one of the best singers ever. De Muro Lomanto had a beautiful voice, but his performance's a little bit arbitrary. Check this Tube to listen to an impeccable Flórez as Elvino.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz58sT7KbLw
Quote from: Harry Powell on April 08, 2011, 07:29:45 AM
De Muro Lomanto had a beautiful voice, but his performance's a little bit arbitrary.
Speaking of arbitrary performance, what do you think of Dino Borgioli's?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrxFAv0Lp0c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrxFAv0Lp0c)
In certain moments it sounds like a mockery of a love song. ???
Quote
Check this Tube to listen to an impeccable Flórez as Elvino.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz58sT7KbLw
I don't know, there is something in his voice that doesn't appeal to me at all. It sounds... how to put it?... rather strangled, boxed... as if something hampers him to use it fully... but maybe it's just me.
I didn't know that recording, but it's his usual manner. Borgioli had some charm, but fell into too many archaisms and resorted usually to falsetto.
As for the Florez issue, you've set me difficult homework for I'd be at pains to explain my view even in Spanish. Let's see if I deserve my Proficiency Certificate... When a well-schooled singer goes up the tessitura, you can compare his/her voice with the mental image of an inverted cone: the higher the note, the more it gains sheen, intensity and (the fatal word) volume as it exploits the "amplification cavities" in the head. To my ears, Flórez does everything to fit this model but something is missing, as his voice doesn't expand as one might expect (I was shocked to discover this when I heard him in a small theatre). He never strains, he uses the right gentle shading in the passaggio and places his delivery in the mask, but his voice resembles a cylinder rather than the cone. There are some options to explain this. He may be reserving too much out of fear of spreading the tone. But I think that Nature has been mean to Flórez and his cranium might lack enough room to produce the "amplification" that I miss. In my opinion, except for his less-than-becoming vibrato, Flórez is exemplary in his technique but has a tenorino voice which only fits a few contraltino roles.
I hope I made some sense.
I am almost completely ignorant of pre LP singers, so I'm going to enjoy to picking through this thread. I must read to The Grand Tradition.
Quote from: Harry Powell on April 11, 2011, 12:08:04 PM
As for the Florez issue, you've set me difficult homework for I'd be at pains to explain my view even in Spanish. Let's see if I deserve my Proficiency Certificate... When a well-schooled singer goes up the tessitura, you can compare his/her voice with the mental image of an inverted cone: the higher the note, the more it gains sheen, intensity and (the fatal word) volume as it exploits the "amplification cavities" in the head. To my ears, Flórez does everything to fit this model but something is missing, as his voice doesn't expand as one might expect (I was shocked to discover this when I heard him in a small theatre). He never strains, he uses the right gentle shading in the passaggio and places his delivery in the mask, but his voice resembles a cylinder rather than the cone. There are some options to explain this. He may be reserving too much out of fear of spreading the tone. But I think that Nature has been mean to Flórez and his cranium might lack enough room to produce the "amplification" that I miss. In my opinion, except for his less-than-becoming vibrato, Flórez is exemplary in his technique but has a tenorino voice which only fits a few contraltino roles.
I hope I made some sense.
Thank you. It makes a lot of sense (in an impeccable English) and it is in complete agreement with my own reservations about his voice.
Thank you, that's very kind of you. It's some years I have been writing about voices on boards and sometimes I feel I end up explaining my views to myself. ;D
With Florez I like everything about his singing except the actual sound of his voice; to my ears thin and uningratiating. But I think he has an excellent technique and makes good use of what is there. I hope he is not tempted into any of the heavier roles.
I am currently enjoying the duet linked to above that involves Tito Schipa. The voice is beautifully forward. I think this trend to use chest resonance is about pushing out increased sound, partly to combat the orchestra. But in fact, when the technique so intelligently utilises the mask and forward projection, the voice will penetrate the orchestral textures.
Mike
Quote from: knight66 on April 18, 2011, 10:25:45 AM
With Florez I like everything about his singing except the actual sound of his voice; to my ears thin and uningratiating. But I think he has an excellent technique and makes good use of what is there. I hope he is not tempted into any of the heavier roles.
I am currently enjoying the duet linked to above that involves Tito Schipa. The voice is beautifully forward. I think this trend to use chest resonance is about pushing out increased sound, partly to combat the orchestra. But in fact, when the technique so intelligently utilises the mask and forward projection, the voice will penetrate the orchestral textures.
Mike
Hi Mike,
I'm of a similar opinion. I'd add that when you listen to his voice in a theater, he makes an utterly insignificant impression (at least in vocal terms). Some months ago Martin Bernheimer described his voice as "tenorino" (he was singing Elvino at the Met). I remember his (Florez's) fans were so infuriated.
Quote from: knight66 on April 18, 2011, 09:13:07 AM
BTW, it was dead or decrepit singers I compared him to and found him severely wanting. Mind you some of the conducting on the older performances was sedate; to put it nicely.
Mike
In which roles and to which singers did you compare him?
Quote from: Harry Powell on April 18, 2011, 10:48:28 AM
Hi Mike,
In which roles and to which singers did you compare him?
In the Mozart, Pinza...very lively indeed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZM_80gcfRQ
Christoff; I have another and earlier recording of him that is less hectic. But he gets round it. I know you don't entirely like his voice production, but I love his voice a lot. Mind you, I don't see any Don actually standing up to such an authoritative Leporello. Like Jessye Norman trying to 'do' submissive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHK16PCsr6Q
Yesterday I accidentally encountered a 1950s recording of him singing an aria from Boheme, it was magical and delicate. A pity he was not more encouraged in the less 'grand' roles. I cannot now get Youtube to disgorge the track.
Erich Kuntz, I like his singing a lot, but the pace in the orchestra is too much the other way, too slow and the rhythms slack then plodding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8MTAEAXLIQ
Really Schrott sounds rough and ready up against any of them.
In the Carmen; well the concert version I heard was just awful. Really there is so much less excuse for bad singing when there is no production and other singers to worry about.
Mike
Thank you. As a matter of fact, I questioned because I thought you were referring to Flórez.
IMO Schrott's a product of marketing: just a barihunk who takes advantage of being married to a record company's Star.
Quote from: knight66 on April 18, 2011, 10:25:45 AM
With Florez I like everything about his singing except the actual sound of his voice; to my ears thin and uningratiating. But I think he has an excellent technique and makes good use of what is there. I hope he is not tempted into any of the heavier roles.
But Mike, isn't exactly the sound of the voice that is the most important in the end? What's the use of an excellent technique if the voice is not good in the first place?
Quote
I am currently enjoying the duet linked to above that involves Tito Schipa.
Which one of them? Or both? :)
Quote
The voice is beautifully forward. I think this trend to use chest resonance is about pushing out increased sound, partly to combat the orchestra. But in fact, when the technique so intelligently utilises the mask and forward projection, the voice will penetrate the orchestral textures.
Now there's an interesting issue: can a flawless technique make a voice sound better than it is? Judging by Florez, the answer is not. Schipa had a native voice quality (or perhaps, as Harry put it, a native physical constitution of the cranium, throat and chest) which Florez lacks completely.
Quote from: knight66 on April 18, 2011, 01:08:15 PM
Really Schrott sounds rough and ready up against any of them.
In the Carmen; well the concert version I heard was just awful. Really there is so much less excuse for bad singing when there is no production and other singers to worry about.
Quote from: Harry Powell on April 18, 2011, 02:19:13 PM
IMO Schrott's a product of marketing: just a barihunk who takes advantage of being married to a record company's Star.
I can't help quoting a Youtube comment on him:
stonato, poca voce, tecnica vocale inesistente, poco gusto = star del 21 secolo.
Quote from: Il Conte Rodolfo on April 19, 2011, 12:08:50 AM
But Mike, isn't exactly the sound of the voice that is the most important in the end? What's the use of an excellent technique if the voice is not good in the first place?
Now there's an interesting issue: can a flawless technique make a voice sound better than it is? Judging by Florez, the answer is not. Schipa had a native voice quality (or perhaps, as Harry put it, a native physical constitution of the cranium, throat and chest) which Florez lacks completely.
Hi Count,
Well, I'm a great lover of beautiful voices, but I wouldn't dismiss singers like Scotto, Vickers, Varnay, Rysanek and the like just because of their timbres. Pertile had one of the most uningratiating voices ever recorded and he's perhaps the greatest tenor ever.
Of course it can, technique is the beginning of every singing resort, but up to a certain point. Pertile could even produce beauty when singing mezzavoce. When Flórez sings coloratura in a small theatre he's a great singer. If he didn't have his technique he would be singing as comprimario.
The exact contrary is also true: an incomplete technique will ruin even the most magnificent voice. Di Stefano's example testifies to that.
¡Hola, don Harry!
Quote from: Harry Powell on April 19, 2011, 04:35:01 AM
Well, I'm a great lover of beautiful voices, but I wouldn't dismiss singers like Scotto, Vickers, Varnay, Rysanek and the like just because of their timbres. Pertile had one of the most uningratiating voices ever recorded and he's perhaps the greatest tenor ever.
Now I'm really confused. What's wrong with Scotto or Pertile? ???
Quote
Of course it can, technique is the beginning of every singing resort, but up to a certain point.
I did not mean that technique is not important, just that all the technique in the world will not make a voice that naturally, physically lacks the capacity of sounding "full" actually sound "full", with Florez a case in point.
Take Caruso, or Schipa, or Gigli (to limit ourselves to historical singers) : they had an impeccable technique, of course --- but I'm interested in what you think of the
pure sound of their voice: was it a product of the technique or was it a natural gift which technique cultivated and helped to fully blossom?
I ask that because you and Mike (both of you being infinitely more knowledgeable than me in the technicalities of singing) seem to agree about Florez having both a perfect technique and a thin voice.
Quote
When Flórez sings coloratura in a small theatre he's a great singer.
Well, perhaps hearing him live does more justice to his voice than the recordings.
Quote
The exact contrary is also true: an incomplete technique will ruin even the most magnificent voice.
Oh, I have no doubt about that.
Hi again
Scotto always had a sharp edge about her delivery: it enabled her to cut through but wasn't very agreeable. Then there was that strident quality in her color which became accentuated very quickly. She was a true master of her voice in every respect except these ones.
I know we'll agree that, as pure sound, Caruso and Gigli were freaks of Nature. Italian critic Rodolfo Celletti wrote they were born singers. They had a fantastic natural placement of the medium range. In fact there are just a few other tenors of similar gifted voices: di Stefano, Domingo, Pavarotti, Aragall, Fleta and Björling. I think this wasn't Pertile's case. The poor man had to toil to achieve his technique. You can notice his wasn't a natural voice. His timbre had a distinct throaty overtone and could sound somewhat nasal on the high notes. There were certain dull notes and an ugly vibrato. I remember a friend told me: "Yesterday I listened on the car radio to that Pertile you like so much. I nearly drove into the Italian Embassy". Schipa hadn't got a privileged voice either. It lacked a solid upper range and was limited in volume. Neither Pertile's nor Schipa's voices would have ensured them their legendary statuses, to put it shortly. It was through technical mastery that they became great singers. But it was also relying on technique that Gigli could sing for forty years.
The only thing technique won't achieve is changing a voice's size (but mind: small voices can carry as well when properly produced).
Gracias, amigo!
Well, as I said, I'm no expert on the technicalities of singing --- I judge a singer by how pleasant (to my ears) he sings. I trust you saying that Schipa had to hardly work his way through --- although he never pushed his limits and kept strictly in the range of "tenore di grazia" and his voice sounds as natural as it gets to me.
So I performed a little experiment: I played Florez vs Schipa in "Com'e gentil", Florez vs Gigli in "Una furtiva lagrima" and Florez & Netrebko vs Schipa & Toti dal Monte in "Tornami a dir che m'ami" to my wife --- she's as musically illiterate and uneducated as it gets in respect to eras, genres and technique. Yet, she was able to recognize Florez's as the most recent recording while in the same time prefering Schipa's by a wide margin in respect to voice and overall musicality. :)
Interesting discussion and I think that Harry has pretty much answered the questions that you put to me. I recall reading more than once that a good singing teacher can take a student a very long way with what is nevertheless a very mediocre basic voice.
I bought a recital disc of Florez and I don't think I have managed yet to get all the way through at one sitting. I just don't like the sound of his voice; but he is a considerable musician and technician nevertheless.
I saw him on a couple of the live MET broadcasts. He is charming on stage and very much like his partner in crime each time, Dessay, their stagecraft overcame the actual limitations of the sound of their voices. I am happy to watch and listen to Dessay, but I have a couple of CDs and again, the sound when that is all there is to concentrate on is actually thin and shallow.
I see Vickers is mentioned. There is a singer with an unusual timbre, certainly not sweet. However, he was a really great artist and like Dame Edith Evans in Cleopatra, he could fool you into thinking that you were encountering beauty. He is one of my favourite tenors, but his voice and voice production are unconventional. Conviction, intelligence and stagecraft can take one a long way.
Re the duet with Schipa, it was the second link you provided. I could not get the first one to work.
Mike
Hi Mike,
In my experience, Dessay's voice has more punch than Florez's in a big theatre. She's a singer who has managed to reinvent herself since her earlier career as "léger". It's doubtful that Flórez will achieve that.
As for comparing poor Juandi with Schipa I think that would be a tough test even for Kraus.
Harry, I see Florez has been singing the Duke in Rigoletto. That part can be approached in several ways, but taking it backward into bel-canto is not what middle period Verdi is about. I suspect that he would not be true to the darker aspects of the Duke and perhaps settle for out and out charm. It can be a heavy part depending on how it is sung. I wonder if he will be tempted to take on parts that are too heavy for him.
I felt the young man who sang it in the recently broadcast Domingo version oversang and pushed; it may have been dramatic, but it seemed a dangerous using up of the water in the well.
Mike
Hi Mike,
Flórez sang the part five or six times and then cancelled his planned performances in Madrid. Now he's returning to it in Zürich (a small venue). I think the problem doesn't lie in his belcanto approach. I indeed think that's the correct one: the Duke is no Manrico (and even Manrico has belcanto features). Alfredo Kraus sang the part in strict belcanto style and I can't name any better Duke than his. Some say Flórez shunned the Duke in Madrid to avoid the comparison (Teatro Real is a "Krausist" stronghold).
What Flórez lacks for Verdi is the robust sound to hold the long "horizontal" phrases. He's very good at hitting small notes while ascending the tessitura, but there aren't any of those flourishes in Verdi. I you are curious, check the Tubes from his Dresden performance. He had to sing in a permanent forte: the feeling of ease that he achieves in Rossini was entirely missing. Although a lyric one, the Duke is no role for a tenorino.
Quote from: knight66 on April 19, 2011, 01:10:19 PM
Interesting discussion and I think that Harry has pretty much answered the questions that you put to me. I recall reading more than once that a good singing teacher can take a student a very long way with what is nevertheless a very mediocre basic voice.
Yes, I think that I'll have to agree with that. :)
Quote
Re the duet with Schipa, it was the second link you provided. I could not get the first one to work.
Can't figure out what's the problem with it. Anyway, here's an alternative one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W2_nZaJAFY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W2_nZaJAFY)
Thank you both for the interesting exchange in the last posts. Very informative.
While looking for Florez's Duke of Mantua I stumbled upon three completely unkown to me historical singers with very beautiful voices.
Gianni Poggi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBnGhrcUiE4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBnGhrcUiE4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI0lK3ZTzso&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI0lK3ZTzso&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaOK1XzFNrY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaOK1XzFNrY)
Eugenio Fernandi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S77Ckqqt08 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S77Ckqqt08)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtlMgxwAFUc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtlMgxwAFUc)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td_Mwuz2Qv8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td_Mwuz2Qv8)
Mirto Picchi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUh3OCq5zxU&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUh3OCq5zxU&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZtDKcB9Ptg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZtDKcB9Ptg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUVbNGFyCC4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUVbNGFyCC4)
What do you think of their singing?
Fernandi and Poggi had sturdy voices but didn't evolve due to expressive and technical limitations. This was very usual during the 50's. Fernandi also imitated del Monaco a big deal. Picchi had humbler vocal material but was much more stylish (you can listen to his Adorno with Gobbi).
I think the three must have found difficult to handle the Duke's tessitura.
Quote from: Harry Powell on April 19, 2011, 02:47:27 PM
Hi Mike,
Flórez sang the part five or six times and then cancelled his planned performances in Madrid. Now he's returning to it in Zürich (a small venue). I think the problem doesn't lie in his belcanto approach. I indeed think that's the correct one: the Duke is no Manrico (and even Manrico has belcanto features). Alfredo Kraus sang the part in strict belcanto style and I can't name any better Duke than his. Some say Flórez shunned the Duke in Madrid to avoid the comparison (Teatro Real is a "Krausist" stronghold).
What Flórez lacks for Verdi is the robust sound to hold the long "horizontal" phrases. He's very good at hitting small notes while ascending the tessitura, but there aren't any of those flourishes in Verdi. I you are curious, check the Tubes from his Dresden performance. He had to sing in a permanent forte: the feeling of ease that he achieves in Rossini was entirely missing. Although a lyric one, the Duke is no role for a tenorino.
Yes, I had forgotten about Kraus and indeed Gedda, both stylish singers. The latter could manage some fairly substantial roles such as Cellini. I think your mining of the older style of performance has reminded me of a style I had all but forgotten. I am used to the much more turbo charged, full-on drama of Rigoletto that is the style now, more driven and loud. Of
course, it looks back to Bel canto, 'Caro Nome' I was being thick.
CR, I will have a listen through the singers you link to. I don't know them at all. The idea of someone imitating Del Monaco does not draw me. I always felt he deployed his voice like a weapon and beat the listener into submission.
Mike
Hi Mike
I forgot about your remark about Grigolo's Duke in the preposterous Domingo broadcast. This is a gifted voice handled by an amateur. He has good intentions and in fact was the only one in the cast to try to offer a true peformance. But his breathing is that of a dilettante and has something of the superficial Sanremo style that has become the standard for tenors. Provided that he's rather successful, I doubt he's concerned with correcting his lacks.
To tell the truth I can't see ant style in current "Rigoletto" performances. The singers just sing (at times) the best they can and one perceives the continuous problems Verdi's writing gives them. I wish I could attend a "Rigoletto" brimming with drama in spite of Belcanto shortcomings. But there isn't a single baritone who can do the role justice!
I had read that Hvorostovsky had sung the part with success. I was a bit surprised as temperamentally, I would not have thought him suitable. However, he is one singer who understands legato and does not go all out for volume. He can be inexpressive at times.
The last occasions I saw the opera was in London when Sir Edward Downes certainly produced drama in spades. The Rigoletto was Paolo Gavanelli who I thought good without being memorable. I have not heard him since. Guilda was Anna Netrebko. She was acclaimed at the time, but to my ears had a voice that was too dark for the part and I felt she smudged notes in florid passages.
Long ago when I was a young teen I bought LPs with Renato Capecci and Gianna D'Angelo. Just as some performances can in formative years; it captured me and never since have I heard a Rigoletto I preferred, but it will be 30 years since I last heard him. Looking at Youtube, there he is in the part.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBEw5vUGihw
I think he sounds terrific, my memory had not played me false. The right weight of voice, verbal acuity and a round darkness. Gobbi I enjoy, though I don't like his habit of singing from the hard palate. I think I will see if I can find this old set of Capecci on CD.
EDIT: Well very strangely, this seems to be the set, with a reissue release date of the 20th April 2011. So I have pre-ordered it!
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41DcB00jAyL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Mike
Hi Mike,
Three years ago I revised every studio recording of "Rigoletto", from the first acoustic recording up to the Chailly set. To tell the truth Capecchi didn't convinced me. The part is too high for his basso cantante voice and he failed to satisty numerous demands of mezzavoce. I also remember he was rather histrionic at times. He was an intelligent singer in other parts. There's a rare recording of Bruscantini (a similar voice) in which he masters the role through a better technique.
Gobbi was a man of imagination, but I dislike his voice. As you are suggesting, he seemed to ignore the right tone shading, what produced pure shouting as soon as he ascended above an E. I think he also adhered to verismo clichés and ended up always performing the same truculent character. He was very interesting at declamatory roles.
The Rigoletto I like best is MacNeil (at least among postwar recordings). I think he reunited the true dramatic voice the part demands with Verdi's belcanto writing. Then I'd mention Warren, Taddei and Stracciari. Still, not even MacNeil equalled the old Danise recording.
I agree with you about Netrebko. This is a incredibly gifted singer who doesn't find her repertory. She insists on singing coloratura roles without having a good coloratura (not to speak about forceful coloratura). She might improve this lack (if she wasn't so lazy) but I think hers is a voice for Mimì, Tatyana and the like. With an intelligent management, she could even arrive to Butterfly. Of Gavanelli I have a low opinion. Hvorostovsky had a beautiful voice which in later years has become too throaty. He was booed at Teatro Real some years ago when performing Posa.
All very interesting comments. I wonder what I will make of the set when it arrives? Possibly I won't be able to hear facts flat on with it. I enjoyed the link that I found. I seem to recall d'Angelo as being rather pale and passive as a singer, but again it is many years since I heard her. Tucker is also on the set and is yet another singer about whom I have mixed feelings; too obvious, but with a good basic voice. He could sing legato, but was inclined to chop the line for 'effect'.
Warren was stupendous, though since I got rid of my LPs so long ago, I no longer have any of him, same with Richard Crooks. I agree that Gobbi was terrific in the right part, Falstaff was not one of them and I remain surprised at the praise he garnered in the Karajan recording. Evans had the right kind of voice for Falstaff. Gobbi sounds crapulous and somewhat dangerous, Evans an old chancer with residual charm.
MacNeal, I can't bring his voice to mind, though I have heard him. I need to trawl to see if he was in the sets that come to mind.
Mike
You might find my blog useful: http://estanochebarralibre.blogspot.com/search/label/Rigoletto?max-results=20
You'll find links to lots of Rigolettos.
You've mentioned two artists of whom I have contrasting opinions. I hold Richard Tucker in high esteem though he had some of the shortcomings you mentioned. A singer capable of enormous excitement. On the other hand, I detest Evans. I keep trying to decipher the language in which he sang. I think he also had even more vocal problems than Gobbi. Falstaff happens to be the only role where Gobbi convinces me, if only for his mastery of the Italian language (I come from a half-Italian familiy). It's true Karajan must be credited with part of the artistic result, though. As the right kind of voice for the fat oldie it's Valdengo who comes to my mind.
Ah, we will will just not agree over Evans in Falstaff, I think he does well in it. But I only have him in two other opera sets. He was much admired in the UK for his Mozart. I have a set of Mozart Figaro from the mid 70s conducted rather inflexibly by Baremboim. I saw the cast in Edinburgh and particularly enjoyed Heather Harper. I recently got hold of the discs due to her appearance.
But Evans has a very ordinary rather indistinguishable voice, he pushes at the lines in the Mozart and destroys the arc of the phrasing. It is all about being ingratiating with the audience. The nice, steady, reliable everyman. I remember watching him in a masterclass with young singers, as much about the characterisation side as the singing. All he did was to try to reproduce his way of doing it in the youngsters he was handling. Rather than bringing anything out of them, he pushed his own portrails onto them. I thought it was about as bad a piece of teaching as I had seen.
As to Gobbi, I cannot find any jovial tone in his Falstaff, no twinkle in the eye. I think it is the wrong voice type altogether. I do think he was very effective as Scarpia. He was admired as Posa, but the humanity of the man is missing and he sounds to be a zealot. I do like his Rigoletto for the most part. I will have a look through your blog.
Mike
Harry, Your Blog looks to be a terrific resource. I am contemplating trying to put some of it through an internet translator. I have managed to get a couple of links to work, but I think there are problems with my computer. Another prompt to me that I really ought to update the machine. Various functions are failing.
I have however been inspired to order MacNeil in Rigoletto. The Molineli Pradelli set will be winging its way shortly. At present I have the Gobbi/Callas and Levine with Pavarotti and Chernov. This latter I have not enjoyed. On its way to me is the MacNeil and the Capecchi. Should keep me out of trouble for a while.
Mike
Quote from: knight66 on April 21, 2011, 11:26:35 PM
Harry, Your Blog looks to be a terrific resource.
Ditto. Thanks for sharing.
I've just bought this:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41TTJPPQFJL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
(actually the incarnation is different, but this is the recording).
What do you think about it? Hit or miss?
Ciao Signor Conte
That recording has three invaluable assets: the young Callas, Elmo and Tajo. Silveri is quite good. L-V was an old man and of his glorious voice only the high notes remained. You'll notice he arouses much controversy from the public. The sound is pretty poor.
Quote from: knight66 on April 21, 2011, 11:26:35 PM
Harry, Your Blog looks to be a terrific resource. I am contemplating trying to put some of it through an internet translator. I have managed to get a couple of links to work, but I think there are problems with my computer. Another prompt to me that I really ought to update the machine. Various functions are failing.
I have however been inspired to order MacNeil in Rigoletto. The Molineli Pradelli set will be winging its way shortly. At present I have the Gobbi/Callas and Levine with Pavarotti and Chernov. This latter I have not enjoyed. On its way to me is the MacNeil and the Capecchi. Should keep me out of trouble for a while.
Mike
Hi Mike
The Molinari set sees MacNeil in good condition, but his best performance is on Decca with Sutherland. I have links which must still work in my blog (I tell you so that you don't keep ordering sets!). There are at least four live recordings of his Rigoletto with such splendid Dukes as Bergonzi and Kraus.
I'm not surprised you don't enjoy the Levine. It's a sad account of Pavarotti's decadence.
Quote from: Harry Powell on April 22, 2011, 03:56:03 AM
Ciao Signor Conte
That recording has three invaluable assets: the young Callas, Elmo and Tajo. Silveri is quite good. L-V was an old man and of his glorious voice only the high notes remained. You'll notice he arouses much controversy from the public. The sound is pretty poor.
Indeed, I sampled through Disc 1 and it's rather poor, but at 5 Euros can't complain that much. :)
(I noticed that it sounds somehow better when played through the computer's speakers than through the CD player's ones.)
What
Trovatore in decent sound would you recommend?
Quote from: Harry Powell on April 22, 2011, 04:19:08 AM
Hi Mike
The Molinari set sees MacNeil in good condition, but his best performance is on Decca with Sutherland. I have links which must still work in my blog (I tell you so that you don't keep ordering sets!). There are at least four live recordings of his Rigoletto with such splendid Dukes as Bergonzi and Kraus.
I'm not surprised you don't enjoy the Levine. It's a sad account of Pavarotti's decadence.
I seem to be having a problem with most 'active' sites. Sometimes it is the speed locally which can be very slow for buffering.
Mike
PS From tomorrow morning I will be away for a week, hope to have plenty to read when I return.
Hi Count,
With plenty of excitement (I can't conceive a dull "Trovatore") and excellent singing. One of the best options.
(http://image.allmusic.com/00/acg/cov200/cl800/l850/l85078iyhdi.jpg)
Thank you.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41DcB00jAyL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
This new issue has arrived. I believe it is indeed the version I used to own when I was a teenager, but it is not the performance attributed on the box.
The cover claims this to be a live performance from Napoli 1959. I was surprised and assumed it would not therefore be my long recalled set. On listening it is obvious this is a studio recording. I believe it is the earlier 1956 Phillips studio performance. If copyright runs out after 50 years, then this recording is out of copyright, so I fail to understand why it has been wrongly atributed. I did look to see if I could find any live performances from Naples with this cast in 1959, but no joy.
I will write more once I have had a chance to listen through, but the sheer sound has delighted me as it is my favourite balance, up close.
Mike
Quote from: knight66 on May 07, 2011, 11:32:03 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41DcB00jAyL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
This new issue has arrived. I believe it is indeed the version I used to own when I was a teenager, but it is not the performance attributed on the box.
The cover claims this to be a live performance from Napoli 1959. I was surprised and assumed it would not therefore be my long recalled set. On listening it is obvious this is a studio recording. I believe it is the earlier 1956 Phillips studio performance. If copyright runs out after 50 years, then this recording is out of copyright, so I fail to understand why it has been wrongly attributed. I did look to see if I could find any live performances from Naples with this cast in 1959, but no joy.
I will write more once I have had a chance to listen through, but the sheer sound has delighted me as it is my favourite balance, up close.
Mike
Wow! Looking forward to reading your review but have ordered it anyway!
I have either been away or we have had visitors since the set arrived; so I have only hears about 20 mins, but Tucker sounds elegant and virile. I had forgotten what a great voice it was.
Mike
Quote from: knight66 on May 08, 2011, 02:04:42 AM
Tucker sounds elegant and virile. I had forgotten what a great voice it was.
Mike
I only have two recordings with Tucker, Mike; the Callas
Aida, and the Callas
La Forza Del Destino. I have no problems with the quality of the voice, which is, as you say, virile and forthright, but I do have problems with the style. In both recordings he sobs and aspirates, breaking up the musical line, in an attempt, presumably, to emulate the Italian style. I find it most
inelegant. Maybe, stylistically, he had improved by 1959.
Quote from: knight66 on May 07, 2011, 11:32:03 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41DcB00jAyL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
This new issue has arrived. I believe it is indeed the version I used to own when I was a teenager, but it is not the performance attributed on the box.
The cover claims this to be a live performance from Napoli 1959. I was surprised and assumed it would not therefore be my long recalled set. On listening it is obvious this is a studio recording. I believe it is the earlier 1956 Phillips studio performance. If copyright runs out after 50 years, then this recording is out of copyright, so I fail to understand why it has been wrongly atributed. I did look to see if I could find any live performances from Naples with this cast in 1959, but no joy.
I will write more once I have had a chance to listen through, but the sheer sound has delighted me as it is my favourite balance, up close.
Mike
I've listened to it but can't decide yet. I've got five Rigoletti now and I think my favourite will still be the Milnes/Pavarotti/Sutherland. But if they ever release a CD with Hvorostovsky, that would without doubt be my favourite. I saw him at ROH and he was sensational.
Hi
You can be sure there's no live recording from Naples and that set's the studio recording you describe, Mike. Tucker never sang in Italy between his early debut and his return in the seventies.
The Duke was a light role for Tucker but he does a remarkable job. He for example destroys di Stefano or Domingo in every single measure of music. Still, I remember his diction was particularly thick here and he lacked some charm. This is a singer to be listened in his live recordings of spinto parts as Álvaro, Radamès (with Toscanini), Riccardo, Cavaradossi (both with Mitropoulos) and des Grieux. In the studio, his defects were brought out and much of his excitement was missing. However I think he was far from being an inelegant singer as, say, di Stefano. During the Sixties he began resorting to too much sobs and aspirations, but in his earlier years he could incorporate them to an exemplary legato line. In my opinion he only lacked a finer mezzavoce and a ppp to be a perfect tenor. In matters of pure singing, accento and slancio, he was magnificent.
Harry, Thanks for the suggestions on Tucker. I will have a scout around.
At long last I have managed a full run through of the set. I had forgotten what a grateful voice Tucker had, I enjoyed his singing a lot. He has the high notes, but also sings with elegance and line. A long time ago I had him in Boheme and his disgusting sobbing put me off the set and his singing.
I got a lot out of the sperformance, which is undoubtedly the studio recording and the final scenes fitted like a glove, not heard for 30 years, but now again sounding 'just right', whether or not they in fact are. Capecchi has a round bass timbre to his voice, a little grit occasionally, but he savours the words wonderfully well.
Exactly as I recollect Gianna D'Angelo is pallid. This is a capable soubrette voice, relatively inexpressive, a dramatic cypher. For me she lets the side down. Over and over she reminded me of listening to Rita Streich, (a fuller voice) vocalising the Mad Scene from Lucia; all the notes are there, but to what purpose? D'Angelo dies prettily, but is that the point?
Molinari Pradelli provides plenty of drama without neglecting the more elegant passages. He also sticks closely and flexibly with the singers. Occasionally I felt he missed the through writing symphonic element and a couple of 'numbers' start with a bump, but that is a small niggle.
Miriam Pirazzini is a ripe Maddalena; the voice I hear in my head when I approach that last act. Sardi a good black sounding Sparafucile. Apart from D'Angelo, I rate this set very highly.
Now when will I get a chance to hear right through that other Molinari Pradelli set I ordered with Gedda, MacNeil and Grist?
Mike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3x8knZaHCE
Is anyone acquainted with Leopold Simoneau? I found him and preferred his high C in a youtube runoff of 23 tenors in Faust's "Salut demeure, chaste et pure". His expressive lyric voice must have been more than adequate competition for Wunderlich from about the same period. (How I love tenors who don't bleat!!) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuPgWtLbk-0
This might be fun to watch, and choose your own favorites:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azeu6ugBc-Y
I still prefer Il Maestro Caruso above all with the ideal floated tone for the high C (Lauri-Volpi is nice, too):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIGVnb2CwIk&feature=related
ZB
I was just blown away by this recording of Jan Kiepura in "Che gelida manina" from Bohème.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUI2TgJ7cuE&feature=related
This may be a recording from the 1930's. Usually I flinch just before the interpolated high C of the "la speranza" with everyone else but he carries it off well in a graded crescendo from the two or so phrases before. He actually distinguishes between open and closed e's and o's in Italian, not his native language! Maybe our Polish friends know more about him and could inform...
ZB
I couldn't resist including this now historical singer, SO different from what one hears today - Renata Tebaldi with the emblem aria of "La Wally": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdiUmFiVY4k&feature=related
Seriously, who can sing like that now? Some points: She complements the orchestra as much as they do her. Also she does the end of the aria that is usually omitted, because it is VERY difficult to go into a comfortable chest voice after the long, high B. Callas was not the only soprano who owned the middle to low range.
ZB
Quote from: zamyrabyrd on July 13, 2011, 08:47:40 AM
I couldn't resist including this now historical singer, SO different from what one hears today - Renata Tebaldi with the emblem aria of "La Wally": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdiUmFiVY4k&feature=related
Seriously, who can sing like that now without taking vocal lessons (http://takelessons.com/category/singing-lessons)? Some points: She complements the orchestra as much as they do her. Also she does the end of the aria that is usually omitted, because it is VERY difficult to go into a comfortable chest voice after the long, high B. Callas was not the only soprano who owned the middle to low range.
ZB
I couldn't agree more. There is no one likely to sing like that today. You gonna miss the good old days with singers with this range.
Bonci and de Lucia are fascinating, and I like Battistini and Ruffa too (as well as many more) :-)
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on May 11, 2011, 12:14:59 AM
I only have two recordings with Tucker, Mike; the Callas Aida, and the Callas La Forza Del Destino. I have no problems with the quality of the voice, which is, as you say, virile and forthright, but I do have problems with the style. In both recordings he sobs and aspirates, breaking up the musical line, in an attempt, presumably, to emulate the Italian style. I find it most inelegant. Maybe, stylistically, he had improved by 1959.
Can someone tell me what a sob actually
is? Preferably link to a youtube video and tell me the time when it happens?!!
Quote from: Guido on December 13, 2012, 06:51:05 AM
Can someone tell me what a sob actually is? Preferably link to a youtube video and tell me the time when it happens?!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wfl5iBQsONQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wfl5iBQsONQ)
Here is a good example. Tucker starts sobbing just 7 seconds in on the o of
seno and as he goes in to the words
gli'angeli. It is a maudlin device used by many tenors, particularly those with more heroic voices. We may be thankful for the virile, manly timbre, but, for me, the device impedes his legato and spoils the musical line. He mistakes choppy phrasing for Italianate style.
Here is the Italian Carlo Bergonzi (we have the full orchestral introduction and recitative here, so the aria doesn't start till about 6 minutes in)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBCuz8oedLE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBCuz8oedLE)
For my money, Bergonzi wrings just as much emotion out of the music without having to resort to sobs and aspirates.
Apparently Tucker modeled his singing on Giovanni Martinelli, whom he greatly admired, but listen to Martinelli, a model of style and elegance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FydRIUf9NlA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FydRIUf9NlA)
And then there is this version by Caruso
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWz8UwpuGt8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWz8UwpuGt8), the voice heroic and forthright, ringing high notes and the legato perfect. Listen to the way he softens his voice at the mention of Leonora's name.
And finally Domingo, who sings with grace and impeccable musicianship.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C060Wc40Phw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C060Wc40Phw)
There is no doubting the splendour of Tucker's voice, and some will no doubt prefer his overly emotive and explosive way of doing it, but, for me, it gets in the way of the music.