Imagine someone seeking mature familiarity with the English symphony (as listener rather than student), -
something between initiatory and comprehensive knowledge. A seasoned relationship, therefore, but one
falling somewhat short of intimacy or mastery.
What level of immersion in or breadth of exposure to the accumulated tradition would be necessary to
achieve such a goal?
To my mind, the "first-tier" or foundational composers of English symphonism (established by some combination
of the quality, popularity, scope, and "English essence" of their work) are Edward Elgar, Ralph Vaughan Williams,
Arnold Bax, E.J. Moeran, Edmund Rubbra, William Walton, & Malcolm Arnold, - the whole body of whose symphonies
in each case any aspirant would need to cultivate a close acquaintance with as part of their quest.
But what of the vast "second-tier" of English symphonies, - by those composers whose symphonic ouvre may lack the "massed force" of the major figures but have yet produced individual works of eminencej and power?
Is there any consensus as to which among this large body are the most important, distinctive, and likeable, -
those symphonies which as single efforts and by some criteria rival or approach the very best work of the canonical seven?
Name up to a dozen or so symphonies (no more than one per composer) in this category that no listener could afford to overlook and yet still claim a "mature familiarity" with the tradition.
I'd add 2 by Britten to your top tier, the Sinfonia da Requiem and the Cello Symphony.
I'd question whether Moeran or Arnold were of the first rank like the others. They composed in quite outdated styles. What about ditching them from the "top" list and adding someone like Peter Maxwell-Davies? I'm only stirring, but no doubt some people here will get my drift - lists like this are usually about second rank dead composers, rather than the excellent ones that we still have in our midst...
"Second-Tier English Symphonies"
Sounds like a tautology. :P
Quote from: Sid on August 28, 2010, 07:03:19 PM
I'd question whether Moeran or Arnold were of the first rank like the others.
There are those of us, on the other hand, who would rank Arnold pretty near the top of the bunch, along with Bax!
Quote from: Dax on August 28, 2010, 07:28:54 PM
There are those of us, on the other hand, who would rank Arnold pretty near the top of the bunch, along with Bax!
I agree 100%, in my book not only is Malcolm Arnold a top tier English composer but a top tier composer period. The Symphonies are excellent but to really experience the glory of Malcolm Arnold one MUST experience the magnificent
Tam O' Shanter, his English, Irish, Scottish and Cornish Dances, his many, many wonderful overtures and his film music. Malcolm Arnold rules big time! :) :P :-*
Unlike Sid I do not believe his music is not outdated in the least. Arnold's music does have Jazz and sometimes even Pop/Rock influences. In his
A Commonwealth Christmas Overture, not only is there a Caribbean band but also an electric guitar.
Arnold's
"Symphony No. 4 was commissioned by the BBC, completed in 1960, following the Notting Hill race-riots which perhaps influenced scoring for the symphony. It includes Caribbean instruments (and rhythms as well): marimba, bongos and tom-toms, all used in a rather menacing way. The first of the four movements has violent outbursts of brass and percussion with extensive interplay between instrumental clusters. The movement includes a rather sad "pop" tune that appears several times, each time with different orchestration. A "pop" tune usually consists of 32 bars, but this one has only 31, an effect that puzzled many listeners. This movement ends with a huge brass outburst which to me is reminiscent of West Side Story. A short, gossamer scherzo follows, all pianissimo except for the fortissimo last chord, leading to one Arnold's most imaginative achievements, a 13:03 Andante (for Hickox; Handley takes but 11:45). Christopher Palmer's notes in the Hickox Chandos recording describe the movement perfectly: "...slow, sensual sexy, steamy, sultry -- and the atmosphere is trance-like, almost hypnotic. Where are we? In a Turkish Bath, opium den (if they still exist) or night-club, very late at night?" It's an incredible listening experience which sets an exotic mood totally devastated by the fourth and final movement. This begins with a fugue, continues with marches, dissonance, more Caribbean percussion, bells and ending in a cataclysmic blaze of percussion. A remarkable symphony!" quote from SIR MALCOLM ARNOLD AND HIS NINE SYMPHONIES (http://www.classicalcdreview.com/sirmalcolm.htm)
I have no idea how to differentiate symphonies among the tiers as it really depends on the criteria. Thus, I will link you to a list of symphonic works to explore by English composers: http://www.musicweb-international.com/British_Symphonies_on_CD/index.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/British_Symphonies_on_CD/index.htm)
I would draw your attention to a few composers I enjoy or am currently exploring (excluding the ones you already listed):
Granville Bantock: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,401.0.html (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,401.0.html)] (good complete series on Hyperion, a must in my opinion)
Charles Stanford: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,990.0.html (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,990.0.html) (Chandos have a complete survey)
William Wallace: Creation symphony on Hyperion
Sir Edward German: First or Second symphony (well crafted, off the beated track)
William Sterndale Bennett: Enjoyable disc with other orchestal works on Lyrita
Hubert Parry: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,980.0.html (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,980.0.html) (complete series on Chandos)
Alice Mary Smith: Disc on Chandos
A couple other guys of interest (that I don't know well, but you may see some recent posts on here):
HAVERGAL BRIAN
GEORGE LLOYD
Hope some of this is helpful...
Quote from: Sforzando on August 28, 2010, 07:10:12 PM
"Second-Tier English Symphonies"
Sounds like a tautology. :P
Oooooh! Retract those claws, Sforzando! ;D :P ;D
Alwyn's 5th Symphony "Hydriotaphia" would certainly be on my list.
So would Havergal Brian's 6th, 10th and 16th. (Yes, I know that's more than one per composer!)
And Parry's 4th and 5th
Those are just off the top of my head - more to follow......
Richard Arnell's cycle will always be an obscure one, but so far I find it both distinctive and interesting - n.b. I have only heard nos. 1, 3 and 6. I used to consider the 3rd too sprawling for its own good, but I was simply lacking patience. There are plenty of diverse ideas, but the composer simply choses to express them on a large scale. The 6th symphony is a wonderfully craggy construct, very compact with three short opening movements and a middling short finale, it is somewhat more harmonically advanced than many of his generation, but not quite as far as Alwyn - it retains a fully tonal reference, but does not develop in a conventional melodic manner.
Cyril Scott I have yet to really absorb, but he wrote some very strong music and four symphonies. His style is certainly individual, a perculiar mix of post-Stanford and Debussy.
Edit: Also, I hate to push my pet interests here because I am unsure whether his music is high quality enough to include, but Arnold Cooke represents a distinctive and not particularly widely followed (in England) school of composition. He follows Hindemith and wrote a mildly spikey, but mostly lyrical and very clearly written and orchestrated fusion of Romantic and neoclassical music. If you wish to see how this could be further developed, try Lennox Berkely (who wrote at least 3 symphonies, the third of which I find particularly interesting). Another pet interest is Robert Simpson, but I think his very mention will annoy some, given how vocal his fans are :P
Rawsthorne is another individual figure, whose symphonies are immaculately crafted and of a perfect length. They always end at just the right time, leaving the listener with the impression of a fertile mind and a sense of restraint. The music itself is of the early-mid 20th century "hell-raiser" school - music written as if to scare his grandmother. While it is tame compared to continental European standards, in England he had some stature as a "modernist" composer for a while. Never atonal, but as tough and rugged as it gets.
I would certainly put Alwyn and Brian on the top tier!
Brian certainly needs to be added to the top tier.
Quote from: J on August 28, 2010, 05:44:13 PM
Name up to a dozen or so symphonies (no more than one per composer) in this category that no listener could afford to overlook and yet still claim a "mature familiarity" with the tradition.
Sorry, I totally failed to read this part ??? The "familiarity" part is difficult, because beyond the well-known composers (Bax, Moeran, etc), there actually aren't that many composers working in this similar Romantic/folksy/Sibelian hybrid style. Some single works of note by other composers that one could do well to hear:
Simpson - Symphony No.9
Brian - Symphony No.6 (or 8 )
Rawsthorne - Symphony No.2 or 3 (although all three are so consistent, it doesn't matter which)
Dyson - Symphony in G (if you like the Moeran symphony in particular, try this)
Lloyd - Symphony No.4
Goossens - Symphony No.1 or 2 (both firmly in "the tradition")
Harty - An Irish Symphony (an enjoyable work, somewhat one-upping Stanford in terms of atmosphere)Bantock - A Celtic Symphony (a must-listen for Bax fans, but not only them)
Boughton - Symphony No.3 (this one only just "clicked" for me - I still find it slightly difficult, but it can be so beautiful)
Edit: Having re-listened to the Harty, I retract it - it's just not good enough.
How about Tippett?
I remember hearing all four symphonies a few years ago, and being impressed by 1 and 4 (the latter is a "birth-to-death" piece starting and ending with a wind-machine symbolising the first and last breath: a clever touch.)
Someone willing to play, and lay their cards on the table. Thank-you.
The impressionistic reflections are fine, - but say I'm a novice, bewildered by the profligacy of English symphonies out there but wanting to learn, and need specific help. I'm spending 4 weeks in the country and have packed CD's of the complete symphonies of Elgar, Vaughan Williams, etc. (the seven "first-tier" composers I listed) but want to add a dozen more symphonies to round out my listening that will vie with the best work of the greats. What should I take?
1. ?
2. ?
3. ?
4. ?
5. ?
6. ?
7. ?
8. ?
9. ?
10. ?
11. ?
12. ?
Quote from: Lethe on August 29, 2010, 10:12:24 AM
Sorry, I totally failed to read this part ??? The "familiarity" part is difficult, because beyond the well-known composers (Bax, Moeran, etc), there actually aren't that many composers working in this similar Romantic/folksy/Sibelian hybrid style. Some single works of note by other composers that one could do well to hear:
Simpson - Symphony No.9
Brian - Symphony No.6 (or 8 )
Rawsthorne - Symphony No.2 or 3 (although all three are so consistent, it doesn't matter which)
Dyson - Symphony in G (if you like the Moeran symphony in particular, try this)
Lloyd - Symphony No.4
Goossens - Symphony No.1 or 2 (both firmly in "the tradition")
Harty - An Irish Symphony (an enjoyable work, somewhat one-upping Stanford in terms of atmosphere)
Bantock - A Celtic Symphony (a must-listen for Bax fans, but not only them)
Boughton - Symphony No.3 (this one only just "clicked" for me - I still find it slightly difficult, but it can be so beautiful)
Edit: Having re-listened to the Harty, I retract it - it's just not good enough.
Quote from: J on August 29, 2010, 12:32:28 PM
Someone willing to play, and lay their cards on the table. Thank-you.
The impressionistic reflections are fine, - but say I'm a novice, bewildered by the profligacy of English
symphonies out there but wanting to learn, and need specific help. I'm spending 4 weeks in the country and have packed CD's of the complete symphonies of Elgar, Vaughan Williams, etc. (the seven "first-tier" composers
I listed) but want to add a dozen more symphonies to round out my listening that will vie with the best work of the greats. What should I take?
1. ?
2. ?
3. ?
4. ?
5. ?
6. ?
7. ?
8. ?
9. ?
10. ?
11. ?
12. ?
Ok well definitely start with at least one Brian Symphony - he composed 32 Symphonies between 1919 and 1938, 21 of which after the age of 80. An extraordinary figure. No.1 "the Gothic" is one of the grandest and greatest symphonies ever composed. I adore numbers 8 and 10 too, though there are many many highlights in this cycle.
Rawsthorne - definitely another good recommendation - thorny works but rewarding I think, even if they take a long time to get to know, and even longer to love! There's an excellent Naxos disc with all three on it.
Tippett's four are another good place to go.
Britten's cello symphony is really a concerto, but is magnificent, and the Spring Symphony and Sinfonia Da Requiem are both superb.
So I don't really know what you mean by canonical seven - the three pieces by Britten for instance are all played orders of magnitude more times than the Arnold symphonies. And yes if Arnold is there, then Simpson should be too. And Brian as many have said.
1. Rawsthorne no.1,2,3 (all on the same Naxos disc)
2. Brian 1
3. Brian 8
4. Britten Cello Symphony
5. Britten Sinfonia da Requiem
Then whatever recommendations you get for ones by Simpson and Tippett - I don't know the whole cycle of each very well but like no.9 and no.3 very much respectively.
Hodinnott and Fricker are also very interesting though I'm not sure how much is available at the moment.
AAd You should probably hear Bliss' Colour Symphony which I personally don't love, but many here do.
Where is Dundonell when you need him? Why hasn't he posted here in so long?
Quote from: J on August 29, 2010, 12:32:28 PM
Someone willing to play, and lay their cards on the table. Thank-you.
The impressionistic reflections are fine, - but say I'm a novice, bewildered by the profligacy of English symphonies out there but wanting to learn, and need specific help. I'm spending 4 weeks in the country and have packed CD's of the complete symphonies of Elgar, Vaughan Williams, etc. (the seven "first-tier" composers I listed) but want to add a dozen more symphonies to round out my listening that will vie with the best work of the greats. What should I take?
1. ?
2. ?
3. ?
4. ?
5. ?
6. ?
7. ?
8. ?
9. ?
10. ?
11. ?
12. ?
If you made me pick symphonies like this 9and only symphonies), I would pick:
1-3. Bantock 3 Symphonies
4. William Wallace Symphony
5. A disc of Boyce symphonies (a different period)
6. Stanford 3rd
7. Stanford 4th
8. Stanford 5th or 7th
Undecided after that.
But there are some orchestral pieces that I would take above nearly all of the above listed (though they are not symphonies), including:
1. Holst the Planets
2. Holst Military Suites for Band
3. Stanford Irish Rhapsodies
4. Disc of British Light Music (Hyperion have a great series of this: 4 discs in total)
5. Eric Coates - one disc I like of various pieces is with Gamba conducting the BBC on Chandos
6. Purcell - not sure what off the top of my head , but he would also be from a different period
Feel free to poke holes in this list, everyone :P
1. Bantock - Celtic Symphony (or the Hebridean Symphony)
2. Brian - Symphony No.7
3. Bliss - A Colour Symphony
4. Parry - Symphony No.3 (or No.5)
5. Boughton - Symphony No.3
6. Dyson - Symphony in G
7. Rawsthorne - Symphony No.2 (the Naxos CD includes all 3)*
8. Alwyn - Symphony No.3*
9. Leighton - Symphony for strings
10. Scott - Symphony No.3
11. Simpson - Symphony No.9
12. Lloyd - Symphony No.4
*These ones might be out of the question if, as you mention, you are not looking for slightly advanced tonality such as Simpson.
Also, while Britten is not a symphonist in the conventional sense, the Sinfonia da Requiem should be heard if you have yet to encounter it. I'll skip the Goossens recommendation because the recordings are very expensive (ABC Classics).
I agree with ukrneal that I would list a lot of major orchestral works as having greater importance or musical interest than some of these symphonies.
Quote from: Lethe on August 29, 2010, 10:12:24 AM
Edit: Having re-listened to the Harty, I retract it - it's just not good enough.
And he's not English . . .
Quote from: Dax on August 29, 2010, 11:49:01 PM
And he's not English . . .
Oh, sorry - I'm used to these threads being about UK musicians.
I think that Tippett
should be on the list but I don't much care for his symphonies so I cannot really comment on them, plus I am not sure whether J would like them.
Lethe is right about the Alwyn 3-- I adore it!
In my own mental ranking, I'd have to put the Moeran Symphony in the top tier.
Sidney Bate's 3rd and Ruth Gipps #4 are classics and must haves, IMO. Arnell is definitely in contention.
You guys just wait until I've written mine!
In the meantime, though, I want to chime in with my support for Brian - no 8 remains my favourite, but I'd have thought any of 1, 3, and the series from 7-10 would have wide appeal to those with broad minds (though there are many equally fine symphonies elsewhere in the 32). Personally, I've always thought that no 8 was simply one of the very finest symphonies of the century, full stop. Totally original, like all Brian, and inspired from first note to last, it epitomises the best of Brian and none of his faults, and it shows how true symphonic thinking doesn't have to be anything like the traditional symphony, and still result in music which could only ever be a symphony.
As far as Tippett goes - well, he's one of my very favourite composers, and I love his human quirks, his fabulous bravery and daring, in short I love what is faulty about his music as much as I love what is perfect. Which is a good thing, because in general the symphonies do have their problems, according to most lights. Personally, I love them all, but I'd say that number 2 is the most free-from-fault and also captures Tippett in the first flush of his full maturity. To be clear, Tippett isn't a symphonist in the sense that Brian, Lloyd, Rubbra, many of the others on this list are - IOW a composer who thought almost exclusively in symphonic terms. No, he's simply a major composer of real importance who happened to write symphonies amongst other things. Seeing him in this context is somewhat strange for me, for some reason :)
Quote from: Lethe on August 29, 2010, 01:36:36 PM1. Bantock - Celtic Symphony (or the Hebridean Symphony)
2. Brian - Symphony No.7
3. Bliss - A Colour Symphony
4. Parry - Symphony No.3 (or No.5)
5. Boughton - Symphony No.3
6. Dyson - Symphony in G
7. Rawsthorne - Symphony No.2 (the Naxos CD includes all 3)*
8. Alwyn - Symphony No.3*
9. Leighton - Symphony for strings
10. Scott - Symphony No.3
11. Simpson - Symphony No.9
12. Lloyd - Symphony No.4
*These ones might be out of the question if, as you mention, you are not looking for slightly advanced tonality such as Simpson.
Surprised no Malcolm Arnold on that list. (Maybe you rate him first tier?)
The original poster's first-tier list and inclusion of Arnold seems agreeable to me (although it brings up problems on the basis of "achivement" in general - if Moeran is included, Delius must be, yet Delius wrote no symphonies). In terms of quality Arnold is more imperfect than the other major figures, but he has sufficient stature for it to seem unreasonable to put him alongside composers like Lloyd, Scott and Dyson, who most music fans haven't heard of. His diversity and ability, regardless of the occasional misfire, are also easy to underrate when compared to composers who stuck with what they knew and did it well, such as Bax.
Quote from: Lethe on August 30, 2010, 09:32:27 AM
The original poster's first-tier list and inclusion of Arnold seems agreeable to me (although it brings up problems on the basis of "achivement" in general - if Moeran is included, Delius must be, yet Delius wrote no symphonies). In terms of quality Arnold is more imperfect than the other major figures, but he has sufficient stature for it to seem unreasonable to put him alongside composers like Lloyd, Scott and Dyson, who most music fans haven't heard of. His diversity and ability, regardless of the occasional misfire, are also easy to underrate when compared to composers who stuck with what they knew and did it well, such as Bax.
Ooops, missed the mention in the OP. :-[
Interesting thread:
Stanley Bate: Symphony No 3
Ruth Gipps: Symphony 4
Bantock: Pagan Symphony
Alwyn: Symphony No 2
Rubbra: Symphony No 5
Bliss: A Colour Symphony
Rootham: Symphony
Clifford: Symphony 1940
Bainton: Symphony No 3
Arnell: Symphony No 5
Armstrong-Gibbs 'Westmorland Symphony'
Goossens Symphony No 1
vandermolen, what about the Joubert no 1?
Quote from: vandermolen on August 31, 2010, 05:42:24 AM
Interesting thread:
Stanley Bate: Symphony No 3
Ruth Gipps: Symphony 4
Bantock: Pagan Symphony
Alwyn: Symphony No 2
Rubbra: Symphony No 5
Bliss: A Colour Symphony
Rootham: Symphony
Clifford: Symphony 1940
Bainton: Symphony No 3
Arnell: Symphony No 5
Armstrong-Gibbs 'Westmorland Symphony'
Goossens Symphony No 1
I had Bainton classified as an Austrailian but that may be debateable. I really love his second.
Quote from: jowcol on August 31, 2010, 07:02:10 PM
I had Bainton classified as an Austrailian but that may be debateable. I really love his second.
Yes, I think you are right about Bainton - so I'll change that to Joubert's Symphony :D
I could have included Daniel Jones Symphony No 1 or Grace Williams Symphony No 2 but they are both Welsh and the thread specifies 'English' not 'British' ;D
Quote from: vandermolen on August 31, 2010, 11:44:25 PM
Yes, I think you are right about Bainton - so I'll change that to Joubert's Symphony :D
I could have included Daniel Jones Symphony No 1 or Grace Williams Symphony No 2 but they are both Welsh and the thread specifies 'English' not 'British' ;D
According to Wikipedia, he grew up in England , had this misfortune to be at the Bayreuth festival in 1914 when the war broke out and was detained as a prisoner for the duration of the war, and resettled to Australia around 1930. (Don't have the article in front of me.) I think he wrote his symphonies while in Autsralia.
Quote from: jowcol on September 02, 2010, 02:49:41 AM
According to Wikipedia, he grew up in England , had this misfortune to be at the Bayreuth festival in 1914 when the war broke out
A real misfortune to be at Bayreuth. Pity about the war as well.
No Robert Simpson? For shame, you can all go and sit on the naughty step >:(
I'll vote for the 9th ( I know, I can be so cliche)
Walton's 1st is worth a dabble.
I just want to express gratitude that we aren't discussing third-tier English symphonies here ; )
Quote from: Luke on August 30, 2010, 03:48:28 AM
You guys just wait until I've written mine!
I look forward to that! I think you have it in you to break above the second tier, though!
Stanford's 'Irish Symphony' is a good second-rate English symphony.
Quote from: vandermolen on September 02, 2010, 08:34:24 AM
Stanford's 'Irish Symphony' is a good second-rate English symphony.
So is Sir Arthur Sullivan's "Irish Symhony"
Quote from: vandermolen on September 02, 2010, 08:34:24 AM
a good second-rate English symphony.
Too much for the mental faculties so early in the morning . . .
Quote from: vandermolen on September 02, 2010, 08:34:24 AM
Stanford's 'Irish Symphony' is a good second-rate English symphony.
But alas, Stanford was Irish, so this disqualifies him from the running. :)
Some that I enjoy, 2nd tier or whatever: Humphrey Searle, Benjamin Frankel (CPO) and that very nice EMI single disc collection of Fricker #2, Orr and Simpson #1, which should not be missed. More recently, the symphonies of Peter Maxwell Davies, Nos #2, 5 and 6 of which I rate very highly.
Quote from: mjwal on September 08, 2010, 07:20:43 AM
Some that I enjoy, 2nd tier or whatever: Humphrey Searle, Benjamin Frankel (CPO) and that very nice EMI single disc collection of Fricker #2, Orr and Simpson #1, which should not be missed. More recently, the symphonies of Peter Maxwell Davies, Nos #2, 5 and 6 of which I rate very highly.
The Orr, Simpson, Fricker CD is indeed excellent. Simpson's First Symphony is my favourite of all his symphonies and Boult's performance is excellent. The end of the Fricker is very exciting and the Orr is a neglected gem - a concise, eloquent and memorable score containing echoes of Carlos Chavez (especially his 'Antigone Symphony' - No 4).
There's nothing at all English about it but I rate very highly the 4rth Symphony of Egon Wellesz (an English symphonist by virtue of long residence).
Another "first-tier second-tier" English symphony (apologies to Karl, BTW, for indulging in the foul act of
constructing a hierarchy) is George Lloyd's Symphony No.7 - by some margin IMO the most concentrated
and coherent of his cycle.
Also Patrick Hadley's "The Trees So High" - a 4 movement symphony in all but name (in fact he did
initially title it "Symphony") - would be in my top dozen or so.
That Hadley piece is really impressive - I wasn't aware of its "almost symphony" status, though. I will bear that in mnd next time I listen.
I seem to agree with some here – but I'll add a few more suggestions:
1. Havergal Brian – Gothic Symphony (plus 6, 7, 8, 10, 16 ;))
2. Arnold Cooke – Symphony No. 1
3. Arthur Bliss – A Colour Symphony
4. Robert Simpson – Symphony No. 9
5. Eugene Goossens – Symphony No. 1 & 2
6. Lennox Berkeley – Symphony No. 2
7. Armstrong Gibbs – Symphony No. 3 `Westmorland'
8. William Alwyn – Symphony No. 2
9. Granville Bantock – Celtic Symphony
10. Alan Rawsthorne – Symphony No. 1 (2, 3 :))
Quote from: Christo on November 10, 2010, 08:10:45 PM
1. Havergal Brian – Gothic Symphony
3. Arthur Bliss – A Colour Symphony
7. Armstrong Gibbs – Symphony No. 3 `Westmorland'
8. William Alwyn – Symphony No. 2
9. Granville Bantock – Celtic Symphony
These are all fine symphonies and it's interesting you added Alwyn's 2nd as I know many would put his 3rd down, but for me I think his 4th (along with the 3rd) are two of his finest symphonies. The last movement of Alwyn's
Symphony No. 4 is cause enough for praise I think.
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 10, 2010, 08:22:43 PM
These are all fine symphonies and it's interesting you added Alwyn's 2nd as I know many would put his 3rd down, but for me I think his 4th (along with the 3rd) are two of his finest symphonies. The last movement of Alwyn's Symphony No. 4 is cause enough for praise I think.
You are absolutely, positively right in all respects.
(And yet - I prefer the Second for its atmosphere, I think :) )
Quote from: Sid on August 28, 2010, 07:03:19 PM
I'd question whether Moeran or Arnold were of the first rank like the others. They composed in quite outdated
Music is not a commodity with a "sell by" date. >:( It either stands on its own or it doesn't, and for me the music of both of these composers very much does.
Alwyn's Second Symphony was his own favourite - mine too as it has a sibelian eloquence which I like.
Quote from: Daverz on November 11, 2010, 04:27:23 AM
Music is not a commodity with a "sell by" date. >:( It either stands on its own or it doesn't, and for me the music of both of these composers very much does.
Well, yes. I actually caught a broadcast of Moeran's symphony last week. I had not heard it in years. I thought it was quite filmic, lovers of movie soundtracks should love it. I have a work colleague who is such a person, and maybe I'll try to buy this symphony for her as a Christmas gift - she would definitely enjoy it...
Quote from: Sid on November 27, 2010, 05:51:21 PM
Well, yes. I actually caught a broadcast of Moeran's symphony last week. I had not heard it in years. I thought it was quite filmic, lovers of movie soundtracks should love it. I have a work colleague who is such a person, and maybe I'll try to buy this symphony for her as a Christmas gift - she would definitely enjoy it...
A bad apology is just further insult.
Go to this site for realised versions of stuff you would never otherwise have the chance to hear. For starters, there's John White's Symphony for organ and 6 tubas. If that's not enough, there's the whole of Sorabji's Jami Symphony and lots of other delights too.
http://www.davetubaking.com/2.html
Quote from: J on November 27, 2010, 05:57:57 PM
A bad apology is just further insult.
It was not meant as an "apology" but more as a qualification...
Quote from: Daverz on November 11, 2010, 04:27:23 AM
Music is not a commodity with a "sell by" date. >:( It either stands on its own or it doesn't, and for me the music of both of these composers very much does.
This is one thing I disagree with Sid about. I think music should be enjoyed for what it is, not what it should or could be. There's a lot of music I can't stand and I don't rate Moeran's symphony that high, but I don't see any reason to degrade the music. Obviously, time and effort went into the work and, like I said, while I don't enjoy the work that much, I can at least appreciate the craft for what it is.
Quote from: Dax on November 28, 2010, 04:16:34 AM
Go to this site for realised versions of stuff you would never otherwise have the chance to hear. For starters, there's John White's Symphony for organ and 6 tubas. If that's not enough, there's the whole of Sorabji's Jami Symphony and lots of other delights too.
http://www.davetubaking.com/2.html
Yes - it's lots of fun...but I went there this morning and either that site or the Sorabji site it links to infected my computer with an almighty virus which has deleted all my personal files, by the look of it. New computer bought already - no time to faff around. So - beware!
:o :o :o :o
Oh my gosh Luke!
That has me terrified to go to any websites I haven't been to before. I'm so sorry. :(
Quote from: Luke on November 29, 2010, 12:09:25 PM
Yes - it's lots of fun...but I went there this morning and either that site or the Sorabji site it links to infected my computer with an almighty virus which has deleted all my personal files, by the look of it. New computer bought already - no time to faff around. So - beware!
Ack! :o Thanks for the reminder to back up all important files elsewhere!
Quote from: Luke on November 29, 2010, 12:09:25 PM
Yes - it's lots of fun...but I went there this morning and either that site or the Sorabji site it links to infected my computer with an almighty virus which has deleted all my personal files, by the look of it. New computer bought already - no time to faff around. So - beware!
Whenever you find "free" downloads, there is no such thing as free. Ever go to mediafire and some download links take longer than others? During that time it's trying to install spyware on your pc. I know because norton tells me and stops it. I only download from trusted forumites, and even then delete after I've listened. The only keepers are what I paid for from amazon or itunes, or ripped from cds.
If you really have to download a bunch of music, instead of use a streaming service or a pay site... or run a virtual desktop to do it so it can't touch your pc. Or use a secure browser like IE that has sub-user access while you're using it. I personally would just avoid those dowloads altogether.
Ouch, Luke!
Quote from: DavidW on December 02, 2010, 08:06:29 AM
Whenever you find "free" downloads, there is no such thing as free. Ever go to mediafire and some download links take longer than others? During that time it's trying to install spyware on your pc. I know because norton tells me and stops it. I only download from trusted forumites, and even then delete after I've listened. The only keepers are what I paid for from amazon or itunes, or ripped from cds.
If you really have to download a bunch of music, instead of use a streaming service or a pay site... or run a virtual desktop to do it so it can't touch your pc. Or use a secure browser like IE that has sub-user access while you're using it. I personally would just avoid those dowloads altogether.
Thanks, guys. I suppose the trouble prompted me to get a new laptop, which I'd been putting off doing, so maybe it was better in the long run! I had/have a whole bunch of school reports to write, and I couldn't risk faffing around waiting for the other one to be fixed.
but as it turned out, with a little perseverance I was able to fix it myself, so now I have two machines. ::) Though the old one hasn't fully recovered, I must say, and I'm on the new one now....
Quote from: DavidRoss on December 02, 2010, 06:37:54 AM
Ack! :o Thanks for the reminder to back up all important files elsewhere!
We've read so much about composers' works lost forver because of fire, thief, flood, war, etc. Maybe in the year 2060, we will read in a composer biography about his losing some of his early works due to ... well, Luke, even your loss is a sign of progress!
Quote from: Luke on December 02, 2010, 09:38:50 AM
Thanks, guys. I suppose the trouble prompted me to get a new laptop, which I'd been putting off doing, so maybe it was better in the long run! I had/have a whole bunch of school reports to write, and I couldn't risk faffing around waiting for the other one to be fixed.
but as it turned out, with a little perseverance I was able to fix it myself, so now I have two machines. ::) Though the old one hasn't fully recovered, I must say, and I'm on the new one now....
Awesome Luke! MN Dave, me and you have all bought new laptops! :)
And now back to our regularly scheduled Thread! ;)
Quote from: snyprrr on December 02, 2010, 06:32:32 PM
And now back to our regularly scheduled Thread! ;)
We are completely out of second-tier English symphonies. It's time to re-name the thread or start a new thread on Third-tier and Fourth-tier English symphonies.
Quote from: springrite on December 02, 2010, 06:35:38 PM
We are completely out of second-tier English symphonies. It's time to re-name the thread or start a new thread on Third-tier and Fourth-tier English symphonies.
haha!!
pretzels anyone? :-*
Quote from: springrite on December 02, 2010, 06:35:38 PM
We are completely out of second-tier English symphonies. It's time to re-name the thread or start a new thread on Third-tier and Fourth-tier English symphonies.
Lol...that's a good one! :P