Mine are:
1. I want more Stravinsky.
2. Having bought many Vivaldi recordings.
3. I spilled a cup of hot chocolate all over a pile of discs.
Quote from: Bulldog on November 04, 2010, 11:43:11 AM
3. I spilled a cup of hot chocolate all over a pile of discs.
Ouch!
I can't say I have any regrets regarding my collection.
However, I wish I had gotten into classical music when I was much younger, and learned how to play an instrument growing up.
I tossed the jewel cases and the liner notes to save on shipping costs when I moved a few years ago.
Also I sold way too many cds in grad school. Also Wish I had known about the streaming options back then would have saved alot of money.
I thought of two more:
I accidentally lost/perhaps threw away? one cd in the huge Angeles Q set of Haydn SQs. I also lost a cd in the Pinnock Vivaldi set, but I don't really care about that as much.
Quote from: Bulldog on November 04, 2010, 11:43:11 AM
2. Having bought many Vivaldi recordings.
At least, your regret is your daughter's gain. :D
1 I bought too many Naxos discs early on, the idea was to pad my collection out with low cost recordings, now i've sold most of them as i'm replacing quantity with quality, now i feel they were false economy.
2 Selling all my unwanted discs to a second hand shop for £1 each, now i realize i can get roughly £5 for each on Ebay or Amazon. ::)
3 My record collection is way too Classical heavy, roughly 75%, i wish i got into Jazz a lot sooner.
Quote from: Bulldog on November 04, 2010, 11:43:11 AM
Mine are:
1. I want more Stravinsky.
2. Having bought many Vivaldi recordings.
3. I spilled a cup of hot chocolate all over a pile of discs.
Mine are very similar.
1. I want more Ravel Chamber Music
2. Having bought many Vivaldi recordings (I think I am up to 3, maybe 4)
3. In a prodigeous rain storm, water came in through a window and showered on one of my CD shelf units. It hit the B's (you know what that means, Bach, Beethoven, Brahms, Bruckne affected. :o)
I am not Harry. ;D
Quote from: DavidW on November 04, 2010, 11:54:58 AM
I tossed the jewel cases and the liner notes to save on shipping costs when I moved a few years ago.
:o Wow, what were you thinking? I'm thinking of converting my CDs to FLAC files and perhaps dumping the jewel cases, but I would certainly keep the booklets.
Yes, many are the jewel cases I have sent to recycling, but I am careful to hold on to booklets with actual notes.
Quote from: Octo_Russ on November 04, 2010, 12:02:31 PM
1 I bought too many Naxos discs early on, the idea was to pad my collection out with low cost recordings, now i've sold most of them as i'm replacing quantity with quality, now i feel they were false economy.
That, is an absolute crock. Yes, Naxos is low cost, but in no way does that indicate the quality of their recordings. Generally, their recordings are of high quality.
Not having more time to listen to it.
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 04, 2010, 12:14:38 PM
That, is an absolute crock. Yes, Naxos is low cost, but in no way does that indicate the quality of their recordings. Generally, their recordings are of high quality.
That is also an absolute crock. Certainly there are fine recordings on Naxos, and there are bad recordings on other labels, but a collection obtained by routine acquisition of Naxos recordings will be a prosaic one.
Quote from: Scarpia on November 04, 2010, 12:12:01 PM
:o Wow, what were you thinking? I'm thinking of converting my CDs to FLAC files and perhaps dumping the jewel cases, but I would certainly keep the booklets.
Yeah I don't know. I wasn't listening to music at the time and pissed off at having to move my cds. I actually stopped listening to music for a year, and I had no sense of the value of those cds then. I guess you can say that I still don't because that old collection has been collecting dust for four years now.
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 04, 2010, 12:14:38 PM
That, is an absolute crock. Yes, Naxos is low cost, but in no way does that indicate the quality of their recordings. Generally, their recordings are of high quality.
Naxos in the last 10 years or so has signed up some excellent ensembles but in their early days it is like choosing between the VPO and Yugoslavian prostitutes. I think this is what Octo Russ is talking about. I never had his problem though because there are bargain lines from all of the major labels. My favorite were the Philips duos and the remastered Sony Essential Classics. :)
Quote from: DavidW on November 04, 2010, 12:24:13 PM
choosing between the VPO and Yugoslavian prostitutes.
You're such a nerd! ;D
Quote from: Scarpia on November 04, 2010, 12:19:11 PM
That is also an absolute crock. Certainly there are fine recordings on Naxos, and there are bad recordings on other labels, but a collection obtained by routine acquisition of Naxos recordings will be a prosaic one.
Like David W said, it was in the early days of Naxos, when they made some questionable recordings with second / third rate Orchestras / Artists, now they've improved a lot, i'm quite impressed with them, and there's some desirable discs that they've recently issued that i want to get.
But buying something because it's cheap, and then hardly listening to it, over buying the very best, regardless of price, ends up as false economy in the long run.
Quote from: DavidW on November 04, 2010, 11:57:24 AM
I thought of two more:
I accidentally lost/perhaps threw away? one cd in the huge Angeles Q set of Haydn SQs.
I'd really hate for that to happen. Surely you know someone who could make you a copy.
I was just listening to the last disc of that set earlier today.
Quote from: DavidW on November 04, 2010, 12:24:13 PM
Naxos in the last 10 years or so has signed up some excellent ensembles but in their early days it is like choosing between the VPO and Yugoslavian prostitutes.
For all I know, Yugoslavia might have the best prostitutes in the world. :P
Not purchasing enough Vivaldi.
Quote from: Scarpia on November 04, 2010, 12:35:51 PM
For all I know, Yugoslavia might have the best prostitutes in the world. :P
... and the most capitalistic Communism in the world! ;D
I've always been fairly fussy about what I'll buy, so I regret more the things I didn't buy rather than the ones I did.
Quote from: Daverz on November 04, 2010, 12:57:24 PM
I regret more the things I didn't buy rather than the ones I did.
The surest way to madness... ;D
I regret that there is far too much great music in the world that I will either never hear or never appreciate.
Pretty happy with my collection. I suppose I could wish I had been even pickier in my choies in the beginning, but on the other hand, that has led to some lifelong loves (Elgar/Boult set comes to mind).
Non, je ne regrette rien.
Sarge
Quote from: Florestan on November 04, 2010, 12:42:08 PM
... and the most capitalistic Communism in the world! ;D
That's China, dude.
Quote from: Brian on November 04, 2010, 01:37:05 PM
That's China, dude.
Sure: whichever security company shoots Liu Xiaobo in the head cheaper gets a contract with People's Republic of China. ;D
No regrets at all.
Quote from: Harry on November 04, 2010, 02:26:59 PM
No regrets at all.
Only because you own every flipping recording.
My collection reflects my interests, - no need to regret that. :)
I rather regret, that I do not have the time to listen to so much music as I would like to do.
Quote from: Harry on November 04, 2010, 02:26:59 PM
No regrets at all.
Quote from: Philoctetes on November 04, 2010, 02:28:41 PM
Only because you own every flipping recording.
Bet he doesn't have this one:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51QQ-wSa6jL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Yugoslavia's prostitutes are not the best in the world, nor is its communism the most capitalistic, for the very simple reason that there's no Yugoslavia.
I was just in Croatia this summer. If Croatian prostitutes are half as hot as the girls I saw just walking around on the streets and beaches, then the girls I saw are twice as hot as the prostitutes.
But I digress. I have had regrets, but most of those were about LPs I never purchased, and between CD reissues and the avant garde project, I don't really have any regrets. Personally.
I do wish that record companies would record more of the things I like. 'Twill always be so.
Biggest regret, this:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41227zybatL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Sure you can argue that Solti's treatment of the 8th Symphony is noteworthy but overall I found this set to be a very abrasive treatment of music that deserves so much more! I tell you had it not been for the Bertini set I would have missed all the warmth and nuance in Mahler music.
I'm sorry but slashing through Mahler's music is never appealing.....
marvin
I regret the excess money and space I've devoted to JS Bach, in the vain hope that after 20 years of classical listening I'd hear what his diehard advocates do. Hasn't happened despite repeated efforts. I do enjoy some of his work (principally instrumental) quite a bit, but overall, I could have used my resources better.
A minor regret that's being addressed: in building up my symphony collection over the last few years, I haven't put as much time into hearing new chamber music, my second classical music love.
Another minor regret: too little metal atm.
Other than that, very happy: I have a broad range of classical music, covering most of the "core repertoire", the complete symphonies of 100+ composers, and a lot more. Decent jazz collection, too. I'm very thankful that I always have something interesting to hear and have gotten to explore lots of neat stuff.
I wish I had bought more standard repertoire. My collection is so full of interesting stuff by the likes of Roussel,Stenhammer,Fibich,
Anton Rubinstein, Zemlinsky,Franz Schmidt, Unno Klami,
Rued langaard, Krenek, Myaskovsky, Pfitzner,Nielsen(lesser-known Neilsen), Bax,Bliss,Brian,Berwald, Alfven, Taneyev,Balakirev,
Chavez, Enescu, Glazunov,Gliere,Koechlin, Braunfels, Pavel Haas,
Vitezslav Novak, Frank Martin, Casella,Busoni, Franz Schreker,
Erwin Schulhoff, Tippett, Heinrich Marschner, etc I don't have any Mozart piano concertos, any of the major Bach choral works,
the complete Beethoven piano sonatas, only a handful of Haydn symphonies, no Schubert C major quintet, almost no Chopin,
Pictures at an Exhibition, and other staples of the repertoire which I know so well but still love to hear.
I don't agree at all about the Solti/Chicago Mahler set.I have it and love this kind of gutsy and unsentimental Mahler. There's still plenty of lyricism in it,though. No one has ever beaten Solti's 6,7, and 8 IMHO.
Quote from: Superhorn on November 05, 2010, 07:45:45 AM
I wish I had bought more standard repertoire. My collection is so full of interesting stuff by the likes of Roussel,Stenhammer,Fibich,
Anton Rubinstein, Zemlinsky,Franz Schmidt, Unno Klami,
Rued langaard, Krenek, Myaskovsky, Pfitzner,Nielsen(lesser-known Neilsen), Bax,Bliss,Brian,Berwald, Alfven, Taneyev,Balakirev,
Chavez, Enescu, Glazunov,Gliere,Koechlin, Braunfels, Pavel Haas,
Vitezslav Novak, Frank Martin, Casella,Busoni, Franz Schreker,
Erwin Schulhoff, Tippett, Heinrich Marschner, etc I don't have any Mozart piano concertos, any of the major Bach choral works,
the complete Beethoven piano sonatas, only a handful of Haydn symphonies, no Schubert C major quintet, almost no Chopin,
Pictures at an Exhibition, and other staples of the repertoire which I know so well but still love to hear.
I don't agree at all about the Solti/Chicago Mahler set.I have it and love this kind of gutsy and unsentimental Mahler. There's still plenty of lyricism in it,though. No one has ever beaten Solti's 6,7, and 8 IMHO.
But don't you think that Titan, Ressurection and the 5th Symphony could have been better served with a more sentimental approach?
marvin
I don't have any regrets, not because I don't believe in them but because there's nothing regrettable about my collection, just a few duds. The great majority of discs are keepers. It helps that I'm a Golden Age of Stereo buff so my collection is filled with Klemperer, Munch, Szell, Bernstein, Walter, Barbirolli, Dorati, Reiner, Stokowski and Boult. I had a theory that these would form the basis of a great collection which I could then branch out from. I think it worked out fine.
At a flea market a couple of years ago, I found a treasure trove of classical cd's from an estate--all in excellent condition and priced very cheaply. I bought the ones that I knew for sure I didn't have copies of. But if I had taken my list of recordings, I might have found other cd's not in my stockpile. It was too late in the day to retrieve my folder, so I might have lost out on some gems.
Quote from: Schlomo on November 08, 2010, 01:28:47 PM
At a flea market a couple of years ago, I found a treasure trove of classical cd's from an estate--all in excellent condition and priced very cheaply.
You must have felt like a kid in a candy store! :)
I don't have that many regrets regarding my classical collection. Most of the recordings I've bought have been dead-on, but I have had a few misfires like some of Paavo Jarvi's recordings. Thankfully, Paavo Jarvi has recorded two gems early in career that I can stand behind: his recording of Grieg's Peer Gynt and the two recordings he has made of various orchestral works by Arvo Part.
I'm usually pretty selective when it comes to buying recordings anyway, but alot of this comes down to research. Would I buy a recording of Ravel conducted by Leonard Bernstein? No, but I would buy a recording of Ravel conducted by Pierre Boulez, because history tells me that Lenny demonstrated no affinity for French Impressionism while Boulez clearly had the forsight and knowledge of how this music should sound.
Again, it comes down to research and apart of this research is reading a composer's and conductor's history. Sometimes reading other people's reviews can help, but only to get some different information and a different perspective.
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 08, 2010, 01:30:24 PM
You must have felt like a kid in a candy store! :)
And the more that I bought, the cheaper the price. My heart was racing like hell.
Quote from: Schlomo on November 08, 2010, 06:52:33 PM
And the more that I bought, the cheaper the price. My heart was racing like hell.
I know that feeling. Going through bins and finding one recording after another that you didn't own. Yes, that's an exciting feeling, but interestingly enough, I get the same feeling when I'm shopping online sometimes. I'll type in say Honegger and all of these recordings pop up and my eyes get as big as Saturn.
My main regret is not getting back into concert going sooner. I was a fairly regular concert goer in the '90's, then stopped and didn't start again until last year. Now I aim to get less cd's and go to more concerts, at least one good one per month.
As regards the cd's, I have no major regrets. I buy from stores and if I don't like what I buy, I simply take it back. This has only happened twice, first with Varese (who I now really like), then with Langaard (who I still don't like, but I'm generally not into late romantic stuff).
I mainly like getting budget cd's, but have been getting some mid and higher priced discs lately. I catalogued my collection a few months back and there was way too much Naxos. Not that there's a problem with that, but I'm now aiming for more variety.
But a basic philosophy has been to get a wide variety of a composer's music - from orchestral, chamber, solo instrumental, choral, songs, etc. - to get the "big" rather than just a narrow picture. I don't include opera on that list because it's my least favourite genre by far. But this philosophy has served me well, for example, I own Carter's string quartets, a cd of his orchestral works, some mixed chamber works, and the clarinet concerto and piano sonata on compilation cd's. What I have done with him mirrors how I deal with other composers...
It is not exactly a regret, but a sort of nostalgia for those past days when every single disc was a party, enjoyed during weeks and even months.
Those days when I didn't have many discs, but I knew very well my "collection" (God, I hate this word!) because every disc was listened to ad nauseam.
Today, I recalled this sensation while I listened to this old 2 CD-set:
(http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/imgs/s300x300/4472292.jpg)
... especially the first volume with Jochum, Fischer-Dieskau, Gundula Janowitz, Irwing Cage, Gerald Moore, etc.
Regrets, I've had a few. But then again, too few to mention.
(http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/7355/2940331f.jpg)
I haven't listened to much of it, and cannot see that changing in future.
Way too much Mozart. Not enough Bach, Bruckner, Richard Strauss.
Quote from: Lethe on December 11, 2010, 06:09:18 AM
(http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/7355/2940331f.jpg)
I haven't listened to much of it, and cannot see that changing in future.
I have that set and don't regret a bit of it. Some of the greatest audio recordings ever made in there, like the Bruckner 7 and Sibelius 6 with the BPO, and the Pines of Rome with the Philharmonia (along with some duds, of course). I just hope I live long enough to listen to it all. :)
Quote from: AndyD. on December 11, 2010, 06:40:50 AM
Way too much Mozart. Not enough Bach, Bruckner, Richard Strauss.
Yes, Andy I find it curious you don't own enough Bruckner, especially considering that you're such a Wagner guy. :)
Like superhorn, I regret wasting money on recordings of third-rate composers whose music doesn't interest me now that I've heard it. These days I can hear such stuff first through streaming web services. And it is no doubt foolish of me to have acquired so many recordings, since 90% of my listening probably comprises only a hundred or so. But foolish pleasures are among life's greatest delights.
Quote from: AndyD. on December 11, 2010, 06:40:50 AM
Way too much Mozart. Not enough Bach, Bruckner, Richard Strauss.
I've always had a high opinion of your posting, Andy, but this... is freakin' crazy!! :o ??? :-\ >:D
8)
Quote from: DavidRoss on December 11, 2010, 06:58:16 AM
Like superhorn, I regret wasting money on recordings of third-rate composers whose music doesn't interest me now that I've heard it. These days I can hear such stuff first through streaming web services. And it is no doubt foolish of me to have acquired so many recordings, since 90% of my listening probably comprises only a hundred or so. But foolish pleasures are among life's greatest delights.
Can you please point out some of these third-rate composers to me? I would like to know who you're talking about.
Here we go again! :P
Quote from: DavidRoss on December 11, 2010, 07:13:16 AM
Oh, really? Are you sure you don't want an excuse to pick a fight and make snidely judgmental comments hoping to bolster your self-image by imagining yourself superior to others?
(Antoine, what say we just give him the benefit of the doubt and consider it a typo?)
No, I don't want to pick a fight with you, David. I just wanted to know who some of these third-rate composers you mentioned are. Don't worry I won't judge or make a snide remark, I just wanted to know, because there are many I consider third-rate as well.
I treasure my collection of third-rate composers' music. While I wouldn't get "The Complete Works of xxx", there are enough hidden gems that give me great pleasure. For every Ross Edward there is a Harrison, previously considered "third-rate" mistakenly by myself but has become a favorite. ;D
Quote from: Mirror Image on December 11, 2010, 06:52:34 AM
Yes, Andy I find it curious you don't own enough Bruckner, especially considering that you're such a Wagner guy. :)
You guessed it! I'm big on Bruckner. I've just been busy prioritizing Bach and Beethoven lately. There's too many recordings I don't have by those masters.
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on December 11, 2010, 06:59:58 AM
I've always had a high opinion of your posting, Andy, but this... is freakin' crazy!! :o ??? :-\ >:D
8)
A lot of people feel that way, Gurn. I keep trying to go back and like Mozart, but I can only deal with little bits of him these days. I still love Don Giovanni, Cosi Fan Tutte, parts of the Requiem, the String Duos and a couple of the Divertimenti.
It's just personal taste, Mozart sounds too safe (and at times hackneyed) to me these days. Too many neatly resolving parts with that same nauseatingly pretty (for me) turnaround.
Again, this is entirely my opinion, nothing more, and I understand it's very unpopular around here. However, it's how I honestly feel, and I stand by it.
I've dealt with impassioned people bashing me for having outgrown Mozart dozens of times already. Most of them couldn't understand that if someone doesn't like something, they don't like it, and there's nothing you can do to "make" that person like it. It's the way the world is, vive le difference.
Quote from: springrite on December 11, 2010, 07:22:33 AM
I treasure my collection of third-rate composers' music. While I wouldn't get "The Complete Works of xxx", there are enough hidden gems that give me great pleasure. For every Ross Edward there is a Harrison, previously considered "third-rate" mistakenly by myself but has become a favorite. ;D
Of course many third-rate composers manage some first-rate music. But just because I rather like one piece by x (and partly because of its novelty on first hearing) does not mean that I will like much else. The old thread on "one hit wonders" suggests I'm not alone in this.
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on December 11, 2010, 06:59:58 AM
I've always had a high opinion of your posting, Andy, but this... is freakin' crazy!! :o ??? :-\ >:D
I think
Andy is trying to say that "that train has left the station",
Gurn. ;D
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on December 11, 2010, 07:54:50 AM
I think Andy is trying to say that "that train has left the station", Gurn. ;D
;D ;)
All those CDs I lent to others that either did not come back or came back with major scratches since most people do not care for the discs like I (we) do. I estimate that I lost about 100 to 150 CDs this way.
Quote from: springrite on December 11, 2010, 08:01:24 AM
All those CDs I lent to others that either did not come back or came back with major scratches since most people do not care for the discs like I (we) do. I estimate that I lost about 100 to 150 CDs this way.
Ouch. At least CDs are less easily damaged than vinyl. I learned a long time ago not to lend records except to the very few people who handled them responsibly.
Quote from: DavidRoss on December 11, 2010, 06:58:16 AM
Like superhorn, I regret wasting money on recordings of third-rate composers whose music doesn't interest me now that I've heard it. These days I can hear such stuff first through streaming web services. And it is no doubt foolish of me to have acquired so many recordings, since 90% of my listening probably comprises only a hundred or so. But foolish pleasures are among life's greatest delights.
I find myself more likely to regret yet another recording of a familiar warhorse, although there is the occasional exception. It is certainly true that peripheral composers are typically peripheral for a reason, but not always. (I think I can honestly say I get more pleasure from Atterberg than Mahler). But the peripheral composers can give a new perspective on their more well known contemporaries.
Perhaps I should subscribe to a streaming service, but I know I will never give my proper attention to music heard that way. Isolation with the music is necessary to focus my attention.
I have a couple of regrets about my collection, not many though.
1. I don't take the best of care of my CDs.
2. I buy CDs, and then I listen to them once, or never.
3. I have more CDs from more obscure composers (Atterberg, Peterson-Berger, Rangstrom) than I do of Bach, or Handel. (I am not the biggest fan of Baroque music, but if I don't have more music by baroque composers, in general, then I can't expand my knowledge)
Lending my boxed set of the complete Jimi Hendrix LPs to a former student, who never returned them - the same goes for my original EP set of the Beatles' Magical Mystery Tour' - probably now worth a zillion pounds.
Quote from: springrite on December 11, 2010, 08:01:24 AM
All those CDs I lent to others that either did not come back or came back with major scratches since most people do not care for the discs like I (we) do. I estimate that I lost about 100 to 150 CDs this way.
I don't loan any of my original discs out to anyone and haven't for 20 years. If somebody wants to hear something, I burn them a copy from the original. I lent a friend a CD when I was a teenager and it came back in terrible shape. We got into a big argument about it and I made him give me money to buy a new one. When I say "made," I really mean I got his mother to make him pay me back. We never spoke again after this.
Still not owning either Book of Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier....even started a thread on it and still trying to choose. ;D
Quote from: Bogey on December 11, 2010, 04:49:14 PM
Still not owning either Book of Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier....even started a thread on it and still trying to choose. ;D
Bill :o. You? No WTC?
Quote from: AndyD. on December 11, 2010, 04:57:06 PM
Bill :o. You? No WTC?
Bro, we all have our skeletons. ;D
Quote from: AndyD. on December 11, 2010, 04:57:06 PM
Bill :o. You? No WTC?
Bill himself is sufficiently well-tempered.
Quote from: Bogey on December 11, 2010, 04:49:14 PM
Still not owning either Book of Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier....even started a thread on it and still trying to choose. ;D
I now have 16 versions of the complete WTC, split between piano and harpsichord. I don't think there is a definitive version IMO. My goal has been to weed out the imitator/ pretender, i.e. second rate performers ...
Quote from: Bogey on December 11, 2010, 04:49:14 PM
Still not owning either Book of Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier....even started a thread on it and still trying to choose. ;D
Piano or harpsichord?
Quote from: Bogey on December 11, 2010, 04:49:14 PM
Still not owning either Book of Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier....even started a thread on it and still trying to choose. ;D
:o
It depends. If your collection is a total of 10 CDs, I can see not having a WTC. If you have more than 10 CDs of music composed before 1750 and there is no WTC, I'd say that's an anomaly. Aside from the Brandenburg Concerti, what music by Bach would be prioritized above the WTC?
On the other hand, there are probably a lot of people here who think I am a lunatic for never having even heard Handel's Messiah.
Quote from: Bulldog on December 11, 2010, 06:17:47 PM
Piano or harpsichord?
At this point, I would probably opt for piano, Don. However, I enjoy the harpsichord as well. Just need to make this a priority.
Quote from: Scarpia on December 11, 2010, 07:08:21 PM
:o
It depends. If your collection is a total of 10 CDs, I can see not having a WTC. If you have more than 10 CDs of music composed before 1750 and there is no WTC, I'd say that's an anomaly. Aside from the Brandenburg Concerti, what music by Bach would be prioritized above the WTC?
I might throw his St. Matt's Passion ahead, and the Goldberg's? But that may be foolish without hearing the WTC's first.
Quote from: Scarpia on December 11, 2010, 07:08:21 PM
On the other hand, there are probably a lot of people here who think I am a lunatic for never having even heard Handel's Messiah.
Naw. But you should give it a spin. Quite powerful.
Quote from: Bogey on December 11, 2010, 07:43:10 PMNaw. But you should give it a spin. Quite powerful.
My problem with the Messiah may be that it is in English. In religious music, not understanding the words is a big advantage for me. ;D
Quote from: Scarpia on December 11, 2010, 09:37:51 PM
My problem with the Messiah may be that it is in English. In religious music, not understanding the words is a big advantage for me. ;D
Ditto!
And on occasions opera as well, so I wouldn't be distracted by the silly storyline. ;D
Quote from: Bogey on December 11, 2010, 04:49:14 PM
Still not owning either Book of Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier....even started a thread on it and still trying to choose. ;D
And I don't have
English Suites 4-6. :( Waiting for the Naxos disc to get under £2...
The fact is that owning just one recording of the "core repertoire" means hundreds and hundreds of CDs. I don't have any symphonies by
Schubert,
Tchaikovsky,
Rachmanivov or
Vaughan-Williams. My Schubert collection contains complete Trios, complete Masses, Trout Quintet, Adagio & Rondo Concertante in F and Lieder with orchestra. That's 10 Schubert discs. I have only 2 discs of Tchaikovsky containing String Quartets 1 & 2, Serenade for Strings and Souvenir de Florence. I have Rachmaninov's 2nd Piano Concerto, Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini and The Bells (his best work imo). I have not dedicated discs of Vaughan-Williams, only couple of minor works on discs of English music.
My collection has plenty of Elgar and baroque composers. I think I have more music by Johann Rosenmüller (1619-1684) than Sibelius and Dvorak combined! Have more Buxtehude than Brahms and my Johann Friedrich Fasch collection seems to beat my Mendelssohn collection. :D
Quote from: Scarpia on December 11, 2010, 07:08:21 PM
On the other hand, there are probably a lot of people here who think I am a lunatic for never having even heard Handel's Messiah.
A lot of people here
do think you are a lunatic but it has
nothing to do with the Messiah ;D
Quote from: Scarpia on December 11, 2010, 09:37:51 PM
My problem with the Messiah may be that it is in English. In religious music, not understanding the words is a big advantage for me. ;D
Not a problem...purchase this one; it's in German:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41W3JCVD8JL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Sarge
Scarpia, if it's any comfort, I've only heard the "Hallelujah" bit and none of the rest.
Quote from: Brian on December 12, 2010, 03:37:12 AM
Scarpia, if it's any comfort, I've only heard the "Hallelujah" bit and none of the rest.
Really? Handel is very undervalued in my opinion. Btw, the work is 100 times better than "Hallelujah" indicates. Ironic that such a crappy part of the masterpiece is so popular...
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on December 12, 2010, 03:32:38 AM
A lot of people here do think you are a lunatic but it has nothing to do with the Messiah ;D
Not a problem...purchase this one; it's in German:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41W3JCVD8JL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Sarge
Hmmm. I haven't heard that one. This is the only Messiah I listen to, I never liked the English version:
Quote from: AndyD. on December 11, 2010, 07:25:32 AM
You guessed it! I'm big on Bruckner. I've just been busy prioritizing Bach and Beethoven lately. There's too many recordings I don't have by those masters.
A lot of people feel that way, Gurn. I keep trying to go back and like Mozart, but I can only deal with little bits of him these days. I still love Don Giovanni, Cosi Fan Tutte, parts of the Requiem, the String Duos and a couple of the Divertimenti.
It's just personal taste, Mozart sounds too safe (and at times hackneyed) to me these days. Too many neatly resolving parts with that same nauseatingly pretty (for me) turnaround.
Again, this is entirely my opinion, nothing more, and I understand it's very unpopular around here. However, it's how I honestly feel, and I stand by it.
I've dealt with impassioned people bashing me for having outgrown Mozart dozens of times already. Most of them couldn't understand that if someone doesn't like something, they don't like it, and there's nothing you can do to "make" that person like it. It's the way the world is, vive le difference.
Hey, no worries mate. I was just commenting because that's what I do. :) I am always in favor of people listening to what
they like and not to what people tell them they should like. Not like that would change MY mind. I tried all that stuff and came back to the Classical Era, since that was right for me. :)
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Kelemen (Violin) \ Kadduri (Cello) - Romberg A Duo #2 for Violin & Cello - Andante con variazioni
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on December 12, 2010, 07:58:50 AM
Hey, no worries mate. I was just commenting because that's what I do. :) I am always in favor of people listening to what they like and not to what people tell them they should like. Not like that would change MY mind. I tried all that stuff and came back to the Classical Era, since that was right for me. :)
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Kelemen (Violin) \ Kadduri (Cello) - Romberg A Duo #2 for Violin & Cello - Andante con variazioni
I think it was Sarge who suggested that as I get older I might change my mind about Mozart again. Maybe I got a little burned out. On the main shopping drag here in Burlington, Vermont (Church Street), they play almost entirely Mozart throughout the Christmas season. That in itself tends to blur the line between "Mozart" and "Muzak" for me.
Okay, you hate me.
Quote from: AndyD. on December 12, 2010, 08:05:17 AM
I think it was Sarge who suggested that as I get older I might change my mind about Mozart again. Maybe I got a little burned out. On the main shopping drag here in Burlington, Vermont (Church Street), they play almost entirely Mozart throughout the Christmas season. That in itself tends to blur the line between "Mozart" and "Muzak" for me.
Okay, you hate me.
Well, that Mozart/Muzak thing
was a pretty low blow... :D I lived in Burlington for 26 years and never once heard Mozart in public. Or any other classical music for that matter. So you are ahead of the game as nearly as I can judge, even if you
don't like it. :)
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Quote from: Gurn Blanston on December 12, 2010, 08:10:07 AM
Well, that Mozart/Muzak thing was a pretty low blow... :D I lived in Burlington for 26 years and never once heard Mozart in public. Or any other classical music for that matter. So you are ahead of the game as nearly as I can judge, even if you don't like it. :)
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Quintette pour violoncelle n° 3 en mi majeur - Reicha Quintet #3 in E for Cello & String Quartet 1st mvmt - Allegro
Gurn, they have been playing classical music in public on Church Street for the 10 years I've lived here. Every holiday season.
Quote from: AndyD. on December 12, 2010, 08:13:44 AM
Gurn, they have been playing classical music in public on Church Street for the 10 years I've lived here. Every holiday season.
They were just waiting for me to leave. Bastards >:( :D Nah, well I left in 1978, they weren't doing a whole lot cultural back then. :)
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Quote from: Gurn Blanston on December 12, 2010, 08:26:45 AM
They were just waiting for me to leave. Bastards >:( :D Nah, well I left in 1978, they weren't doing a whole lot cultural back then. :)
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L'Archibudelli - Reicha Quintet #3 in E for Cello & String Quartet 2nd mvmt - Andante poco adagio
That's amazing! I live on Converse Court, a little dead end off of South Union and Hickock. It really rocks when the college kids arrive.
As for the music, it's cool sometimes. Yesterday they were playing one of the early Haydn Piano Trios. Talk about rare.
Quote from: AndyD. on December 12, 2010, 08:35:06 AM
That's amazing! I live on Converse Court, a little dead end off of South Union and Hickock. It really rocks when the college kids arrive.
As for the music, it's cool sometimes. Yesterday they were playing one of the early Haydn Piano Trios. Talk about rare.
Now, that would be nice.
My little brother lives about 5 blocks away from you down North Willard. Small world, amigo. :)
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Not really a regret, but I feel like I've heard all I want and there's nothing new that will excite me like my current group of favorite composers. When I try to think of something to buy classical-wise, I'm left scratching my head. Multiple recordings of the same work don't interest me that much anymore.
Quote from: 71 dB on December 12, 2010, 03:44:01 AM
Really? Handel is very undervalued in my opinion. Btw, the work is 100 times better than "Hallelujah" indicates. Ironic that such a crappy part of the masterpiece is so popular...
Its not that crappy considering when it was written, but yeah. It would be like judging Beethoven's fifth after listening to the popular motif only.
Quote from: 71 dB on December 12, 2010, 03:44:01 AM
Really? Handel is very undervalued in my opinion. Btw, the work is 100 times better than "Hallelujah" indicates. Ironic that such a crappy part of the masterpiece is so popular...
Nothing crappy about that part of Messiah at all. It's a fine chorus and deservedly popular. The problem with Handel in my opinion is that he's so extremely uneven. One can yawn one's way through a half dozen dull choruses and arias, and then come upon something as fabulous as "The People Shall Hear" from "Israel in Egypt," or "He Saw the Lovely Youth" from "Theodora."
Quote from: springrite on December 12, 2010, 02:33:06 AM
Ditto!
And on occasions opera as well, so I wouldn't be distracted by the silly storyline. ;D
Examples, please? I know few operas that I consider successful as operas where the story line is "silly."
Quote from: Sforzando on December 13, 2010, 05:31:05 AM
Nothing crappy about that part of Messiah at all. It's a fine chorus and deservedly popular. The problem with Handel in my opinion is that he's so extremely uneven. One can yawn one's way through a half dozen dull choruses and arias, and then come upon something as fabulous as "The People Shall Hear" from "Israel in Egypt," or "He Saw the Lovely Youth" from "Theodora."
A highlights disc sort of composer.
Quote from: AndyD. on December 12, 2010, 05:30:15 AM
Hmmm. I haven't heard that one. This is the only Messiah I listen to, I never liked the English version:
The English version is the original. What you're saying is similar to "I only listen to Wagner in Italian, I never liked the German." All of Handel's oratorios were written to English libretti, and most of them are not religious, being based either on Old Testament stories (Saul) or Greek mythology (Hercules). And since the words to Messiah are from the King James Bible, they're as good as English gets. But German speakers cringe when hearing Wagner's crudely crafted, stultifying, stilted Stabreim - which only sounds acceptable to English-only speakers because they don't understand what a mess Wagner often makes of die heilige deutsche Sprache.
Quote from: Sforzando on December 13, 2010, 05:31:05 AM
The problem with Handel in my opinion is that he's so extremely uneven.
That, unfortunately, he is. Paul Henry Lang (Handel's finest biographer IMHO) even recommends cuts should be made in the performance of some of his works to ensure their overall integrity. There are of course works which are consistent from start to finish, the Messiah being one of them (Giulio Cesare being another).
I saw a YouTube video about the man with the largest record collection in the world. It's worth 50 million but he can't sell it for 3.
Sad.
Quote from: Sforzando on December 13, 2010, 05:32:58 AM
Examples, please? I know few operas that I consider successful as operas where the story line is "silly."
I won't speak for Springrite, but I think the Magic flute has the most unfavorable ratio of story to music. The first act works nicely but it breaks down after that (for me).
Quote from: AndyD. on December 12, 2010, 05:30:15 AM
Hmmm. I haven't heard that one.
I haven't either. I do have Richter's other recording, on DG with the London Phil. I'm taking my own advice: I just ordered it after listening to a clip of Janowitz singing "Ich weiß, daß mein Erlöser lebet" ("I know that my redeemer liveth")...just breathtaking. Love her voice (and I know Scarpia loves her too ;) ;D )
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on December 13, 2010, 06:42:49 AM
I haven't either. I do have Richter's other recording, on DG with the London Phil. I'm taking my own advise: I just ordered it after listening to a clip of Janowitz singing "I know that my redeemer liveth"...just breathtaking. Love her voice (and I know Scarpia loves her too ;) ;D )
Sarge
Oh, I'm into Janowitz. There's a regret: I don't have much by her!
Quote from: Scarpia on December 13, 2010, 05:56:38 AM
I won't speak for Springrite, but I think the Magic flute has the most unfavorable ratio of story to music. The first act works nicely but it breaks down after that (for me).
Or all those where when one character changes cloth not even those intimate to him or her can recognize him/her.
Cosi comes to mind but there are dozens more. Stories based on such silly mistaken identities bore me. I shall gladly take the music but spare me the stories.
Quote from: springrite on December 13, 2010, 07:07:59 AM
Or all those where when one character changes cloth not even those intimate to him or her can recognize him/her. Cosi comes to mind but there are dozens more. Stories based on such silly mistaken identities bore me. I shall gladly take the music but spare me the stories.
To mutate the subject somewhat, in "bad" opera like "Zauberflote" I still find it important to know the words to any given Aria because the music and the words have an important relationship to each other. That is independent of the fact that the story as a whole doesn't make sense or seem compelling to me.
Quote from: Scarpia on December 11, 2010, 07:08:21 PM
On the other hand, there are probably a lot of people here who think I am a lunatic for never having even heard Handel's Messiah.
Don't worry, I don't think you are missing much. I heard it once in its entirety, and probably never will again.
Quote from: ChamberNut on December 13, 2010, 08:28:09 AM
Don't worry, I don't think you are missing much. I heard it once in its entirety, and probably never will again.
:o
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on December 13, 2010, 08:51:41 AM
:o
Just not my thing. Perhaps I'll give the German version a try, or Latin ;D Or the Messiah without words.
Quote from: Bogey on December 11, 2010, 07:40:22 PM
At this point, I would probably opt for piano, Don. However, I enjoy the harpsichord as well. Just need to make this a priority.
Given all the rewarding WTC's on the market, I'll be interested in how you make your acquisition decision. It won't be easy unless you intend to buy a bunch of them.
Quote from: Bulldog on December 13, 2010, 09:11:47 AM
Given all the rewarding WTC's on the market, I'll be interested in how you make your acquisition decision. It won't be easy unless you intend to buy a bunch of them.
It will be easy once he realizes that it doesn't really matter which recording he picks. It will still be Bach. For a first pick, I'd restrict consideration to modern recordings with good sound, Schiff, Hewitt, Ashkenazy, Crossland, etc.
Quote from: Scarpia on December 13, 2010, 09:32:44 AM
Schiff, Hewitt, Ashkenazy, Crossland, etc.
God, no. Gotta get a standard pick, at least go for Richter, Gould or Kenneth Gilbert.
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on December 13, 2010, 09:38:33 AM
God, no. Gotta get a standard pick, at least go for Richter, Gould or Kenneth Gilbert.
The first two are idiosyncratic, in my impression, and the last in not on piano.
Quote from: Scarpia on December 13, 2010, 09:32:44 AM
It will be easy once he realizes that it doesn't really matter which recording he picks. It will still be Bach. For a first pick, I'd restrict consideration to modern recordings with good sound, Schiff, Hewitt, Ashkenazy, Crossland, etc.
I listen to various WTC's many hours every week, and I think it matters a great deal which recording is picked. Scarpia listed some fine sets; same with JdP. The only one above that I would not recommend is the Ashkenazy - little variety of color and texture. Over the long haul, I think Ash. gets a little boring.
Regardless of those recordings recommended, the only person in this instance who counts is Bogey. If I knew his preferences, I could give worthy advice. But Bogey might not even at this point have any particular parameters.
Quote from: Scarpia on December 11, 2010, 07:08:21 PM
Aside from the Brandenburg Concerti, what music by Bach would be prioritized above the WTC?
Goldbergs
Cello Suites
Violin S&Ps
Violin ctos
SMP
maybe AoF and selected cantatas
Quote from: DavidRoss on December 13, 2010, 11:17:55 AM
Goldbergs
Cello Suites
Violin S&Ps
Violin ctos
SMP
maybe AoF and selected cantatas
Those are all favorite pieces, but in my own personal pantheon the WTC is supreme.
Quote from: Scarpia on December 13, 2010, 09:32:44 AM
It will be easy once he realizes that it doesn't really matter which recording he picks. It will still be Bach. For a first pick, I'd restrict consideration to modern recordings with good sound, Schiff, Hewitt, Ashkenazy, Crossland, etc.
All tasty and I'd be surprised if Bill disliked any of 'em.
If I were asked to suggest recordings of the WTC, I'd offer two, one modern, one period
1. Rosalyn Tureck
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41TVS934J2L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
2. Gustav Leonhardt (Bk. 1 pictured, but Bk. 2 is also available)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51v8dXWxl0L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Quote from: DavidRoss on December 13, 2010, 11:25:46 AM
All tasty and I'd be surprised if Bill disliked any of 'em.
Hmm, surprized by the hatin' on Ashkenazy here.
Quote from: Scarpia on December 13, 2010, 11:35:16 AM
Hmm, surprized by the hatin' on Ashkenazy here.
I must have listened to the Ashkenazy at least 20 times. For me, he peaked on about the 5th hearing; after that, it was all downhill. No hating involved, but his is the least rewarding of all WTC's I know except for one by a Jeffrey Middleton that was a real snoozer.
Quote from: Bulldog on December 13, 2010, 12:41:56 PM
I must have listened to the Ashkenazy at least 20 times. For me, he peaked on about the 5th hearing; after that, it was all downhill. No hating involved, but his is the least rewarding of all WTC's I know except for one by a Jeffrey Middleton that was a real snoozer.
I listened to mine twice. That's why I like it, I guess. ;D
Ashkenazy is better as a chamber musician then as a soloist.
Quote from: Leon on December 13, 2010, 11:32:37 AM
If I were asked to suggest recordings of the WTC, I'd offer two, one modern, one period
1. Rosalyn Tureck
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41TVS934J2L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
I go under the knife tomorrow morning, so I'll definitely be listening to the Tureck tonight (my favorite recording of any repertoire).
Quote from: Bulldog on December 13, 2010, 12:51:10 PM
I go under the knife tomorrow morning, so I'll definitely be listening to the Tureck tonight (my favorite recording of any repertoire).
Nothing serious, I hope. Best of luck.
Quote from: Bulldog on December 13, 2010, 12:51:10 PM
I go under the knife tomorrow morning, so I'll definitely be listening to the Tureck tonight (my favorite recording of any repertoire).
Best of luck Don and a quick recovery.
Quote from: Bulldog on December 13, 2010, 12:51:10 PM
I go under the knife tomorrow morning, so I'll definitely be listening to the Tureck tonight (my favorite recording of any repertoire).
First the over the top Ashkenazy bashing (ok, maybe a tickle from you, but bashing from others), and then you choose THIS recording. But your health is far more important, so we hope for the best here!! Far more important that you get well, so we can have a nice friendly debate about whatever we want! ;D
Quote from: Scarpia on December 13, 2010, 12:52:40 PM
Nothing serious, I hope. Best of luck.
Thanks much - I expect success.
Quote from: Bulldog on December 13, 2010, 12:51:10 PM
I go under the knife tomorrow morning, so I'll definitely be listening to the Tureck tonight (my favorite recording of any repertoire).
Yeah Don, I hope everything works out for you tomorrow morning. Right before the holidays, yee....
Quote from: AndyD. on December 13, 2010, 01:47:26 PM
Yeah Don, I hope everything works out for you tomorrow morning. Right before the holidays, yee....
Actually, tomorrow is a good time for the procedure. My wife and I are scheduled to visit our new grandson in Boston the second week of January, so surgery tomorrow should give me plenty of time to get to full strength before the trip. Also, not being a Christian helps on this one.
Quote from: ukrneal on December 13, 2010, 01:43:46 PM
First the over the top Ashkenazy bashing (ok, maybe a tickle from you, but bashing from others), and then you choose THIS recording.
THIS recording must not have your approval. Anything in particular you don't like about the Tureck?
Quote from: Bulldog on December 13, 2010, 01:46:04 PM
Thanks much - I expect success.
My theory, Bulldog got a new CD player, and just realized that remote from the old one will have to be surgically removed from his hand. ;D :-[ Ooops, shouldn't be joking about these things.
If you don't make it, can I have just 10% of your Goldberg collection? :D Not asking much... ;D
Anyway hope everything goes well. :)
Quote from: Scarpia on December 13, 2010, 01:58:18 PM
My theory, Bulldog got a new CD player, and just realized that remote from the old one will have to be surgically removed from his hand.
An interesting theory except that I hardly ever use the CD player remote. 8)
Quote from: Bulldog on December 13, 2010, 01:50:52 PM
Actually, tomorrow is a good time for the procedure. My wife and I are scheduled to visit our new grandson in Boston the second week of January, so surgery tomorrow should give me plenty of time to get to full strength before the trip. Also, not being a Christian helps on this one.
... and Hanukkah ended on December 9. ;D
Best wishes from Chile,
Don! :)
Quote from: DavidW on December 13, 2010, 02:03:22 PM
If you don't make it, can I have just 10% of your Goldberg collection? :D
Sure, you can have the bottom 10% (and that's not shabby at all).
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on December 13, 2010, 02:06:50 PM
... and Hanukkah ended on December 9. ;D
Best wishes from Chile, Don! :)
Unfortunately, Hanukkah was a casualty this year. My wife always treats it generously with a lot of food, presents and good cheer; but this year her heart wasn't in it.
Anyways, I thank you folks for your good wishes. The way I figure it, I can use all the wishes I can get. An evangelical friend of mine told me that she and her buddies were praying daily for me. With people on my side and my own mindset in the "strong and healthy" mode, I can't go wrong.
Quote from: Bulldog on December 13, 2010, 01:50:52 PM
Also, not being a Christian helps on this one.
You don't have to be a Christian to celebrate Christmas. Jews are WAY too butthurt about this holyday.
Quote from: Bulldog on December 13, 2010, 01:46:04 PM
Thanks much - I expect success.
Don - just coming into this thread and saw your comment about surgery - hope just a minor issue - best of luck - Dave
Quote from: Bulldog on December 13, 2010, 01:53:01 PM
THIS recording must not have your approval. Anything in particular you don't like about the Tureck?
Nothing. I was being
dramatic, because some of the comments preceeding your comments were over the top. I have the BBC recording of Tureck (I and II), which I have come to detest, but I don't hold that against her, becuase she clearly has a lot to say in the music. I also find that I sometimes come around to an interpretation, though this was one I initially enjoyed until I heard others.
My favourite versions of the WTC are Gulda on Philips, and Nikolayeva on Olympia, insights aplenty, i can't wait until Perahia records them when he gets round to it.
Quote from: springrite on December 13, 2010, 07:07:59 AM
Or all those where when one character changes cloth not even those intimate to him or her can recognize him/her. Cosi comes to mind but there are dozens more. Stories based on such silly mistaken identities bore me. I shall gladly take the music but spare me the stories.
Just curious: do you consider Shakespearean comedy silly as well? Because mistaken identity is an essential component in many of them. For example, in Twelfth Night, Viola dresses as a man, calling herself Cesario, and is later mistaken for her twin brother Sebastian. I wouldn't be surprised if Shakespeare had at least one set of boy twins to play his female roles, as twinship is essential to the Comedy of Errors and Twelfth Night. As for mistaken identity, the virtuosic treatment is found in As You Like It, where the boy actor playing Rosalind disguises herself as a young man, and then later pretends to be a girl.
Quote from: Scarpia on December 13, 2010, 05:56:38 AM
I won't speak for Springrite, but I think the Magic flute has the most unfavorable ratio of story to music. The first act works nicely but it breaks down after that (for me).
I could not disagree more. Since this question keeps coming up, I'm going to dredge up a comment I posted at rec.music.opera almost ten years ago:
"The plot of The Magic Flute is silly only if judged by the standards of the
realistic play and novel, which are primarily 19th-century phenomena. The
Magic Flute is not a work of realism but a fable and an allegory, and has
been suggested here, works far better on stage than on recordings. (And why
shouldn't it? Mozart did not write his operas with your CD players in mind.)
"Schikaneder's libretto has been criticized for inconsistency; that is, why
do the Queen of the Night and her Ladies, who first appear to be "good"
characters, turn out to be the villains, and why do Sarastro and his
priests, who are first reputed to be the villains, turn out to be the
embodiments of goodness and wisdom? Legend has it that the plot was
"changed" midstream. But if this part of the story is experienced from
Tamino's point of view, we the audience participate in his growth from
naive, unquestioning trust through mature understanding of good and evil,
and thus there is no real inconsistency. (The pivotal moment in Tamino's
education is his lengthy dialogue in the finale to Act One with the Speaker,
whom someone above referred as the "dreary priest.")
"Despite some of the doggerel in the verse, the plot is really very well
executed, and if you accept it without criticizing the opera for being
something it is not, works very well. The main strength of the libretto is
the beautiful way in which the serious Tamino-Pamina main plot intertwines
with the comic Papageno-Pagagena subplot. Both Tamino and Papageno must
undergo various trials before they can achieve some degree of wisdom and
unite with the women they love. Tamino must first suffer silence and
separation from Pamina before he is found worthy of her, and when they are
united they must together endure the trials of water and fire, an
allegorical initiation into the solemn Masonic rites that were so important
to Mozart in his own life. Papageno by contrast, purely l'homme moyen
sensuel, must endure frustration and separation from Papagena, but though
his needs and wants are purely animalistic and he lacks the spirituality of
Tamino's quest, Papageno at least contemplates ending his life, which shows
sufficient selflessness that he is granted the right to reunite with his
love.
"Mozart IMO responded so wonderfully well to this clever libretto because it
represented the two main sides of his own personality - the mature and
serious developing young man, drawn to Sarastro's humane philosophy of
forgiveness and the rejection of revenge, and the clownish adolescent still
in love with food, wine, smutty jokes, and sex. The film Amadeus caught only
one side of this personality, but both existed, and they account in my mind
for the level of musical engagement Mozart demonstrates throughout - in
contrast to the almost perfunctory music of La Clemenza di Tito which he was
composing about the same time. Mozart pours into this seemingly slight story
a wealth of musical forms and textures - from the coloratura of the Queen of
the Night's arias, through the simple folk-like ditties for Papageno, to the
neo-Baroque chorale prelude style of the music for the Two Men in Armor, the
austere recitative for the Speaker, the dignified arias for Sarastro, and
more. Together with Le Nozze di Figaro, this is, I believe, his most
completely successful opera."
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on December 13, 2010, 02:48:54 PM
You don't have to be a Christian to celebrate Christmas. Jews are WAY too butthurt about this holyday.
Well, you would be too if you had to ensure two months worth of lousy Christmas carol arrangements in every store you entered. At least they could have one or two lousy Chanukah song arrangements too.
Quote from: Sackbut on December 13, 2010, 05:16:38 AM
Not really a regret, but I feel like I've heard all I want and there's nothing new that will excite me like my current group of favorite composers. When I try to think of something to buy classical-wise, I'm left scratching my head. Multiple recordings of the same work don't interest me that much anymore.
I'm gonna quote this because nobody else has yet, and also because I understand where you're coming from, Sackbut. I've always had this sort of gnawing deep-inside fear that some day I will run out of things to discover and have everything I want to hear. 2010 proved that wrong - I discovered Roussel's orchestral music, the first half of the Beethoven string quartets, the Weinberg cello concerto, and other dandy stuff - but even so I still have that sort of paranoia. I still have most of Mahler's, Bruckner's, and Haydn's symphonies to hear for the first time, the Beethoven quartets Opp 95-133 ditto, and have been intentionally avoiding all Schubert chamber music in order to discover it later. I guess the thing is, there never actually will be a "oops, I just ran out of new music to hear for the first time" moment, but the fear of it remains, and also, the fear that you/I/we've already heard most of our all-time favorites.
What a weird problem. It's irrational but so compelling.
Quote from: Brian on December 16, 2010, 02:10:41 AM
I'm gonna quote this because nobody else has yet, and also because I understand where you're coming from, Sackbut. I've always had this sort of gnawing deep-inside fear that some day I will run out of things to discover and have everything I want to hear. 2010 proved that wrong - I discovered Roussel's orchestral music, the first half of the Beethoven string quartets, the Weinberg cello concerto, and other dandy stuff - but even so I still have that sort of paranoia. I still have most of Mahler's, Bruckner's, and Haydn's symphonies to hear for the first time, the Beethoven quartets Opp 95-133 ditto, and have been intentionally avoiding all Schubert chamber music in order to discover it later. I guess the thing is, there never actually will be a "oops, I just ran out of new music to hear for the first time" moment, but the fear of it remains, and also, the fear that you/I/we've already heard most of our all-time favorites.
What a weird problem. It's irrational but so compelling.
I rarely listen to "new" recordings (besides Wagner's operas when they're streamed live). That's why I don't post much on the "What are you listening to?" and "Today's Purchases" threads. I feel that I'm too boring for threads like that.
I get so much out of the recordings I already have, and the pieces performed thereof. I listen over and over.
Quote from: Brian on December 16, 2010, 02:10:41 AM
I'm gonna quote this because nobody else has yet, and also because I understand where you're coming from, Sackbut. I've always had this sort of gnawing deep-inside fear that some day I will run out of things to discover and have everything I want to hear. 2010 proved that wrong - I discovered Roussel's orchestral music, the first half of the Beethoven string quartets, the Weinberg cello concerto, and other dandy stuff - but even so I still have that sort of paranoia. I still have most of Mahler's, Bruckner's, and Haydn's symphonies to hear for the first time, the Beethoven quartets Opp 95-133 ditto, and have been intentionally avoiding all Schubert chamber music in order to discover it later. I guess the thing is, there never actually will be a "oops, I just ran out of new music to hear for the first time" moment, but the fear of it remains, and also, the fear that you/I/we've already heard most of our all-time favorites.
What a weird problem. It's irrational but so compelling.
You and the But make me smile. At one point in the mid-90s I felt like you guys. I looked at my collection, sizable even then, and thought I'd run out of new music, both classical and popular. A few years later I went online, discovered music forums, discovered online CD merchants. I've added 3000 CDs to the collection I once thought complete :D I'm 61 years old; been collecting music for over forty years. Believe me, you won't run out of new things to listen to. For exampole, I just ordered a bunch of symphones by Tournemire. Who the hell is Tournemire? I have no idea ;D I don't even know what nationality he is. But Lethe's description of the music was so funny, and compelling, I just have to hear it.
Sarge
I think I listened to a Tournemire symphony once :o it was about five years ago when I went on Naxos.com and decided to try a composer I'd never heard of from every letter. Can't remember a thing about it. I do remember liking Mihaly Mosonyi... ought to give that a spin sometime.
Maybe that's something to try again soon. It unearthed a huge world of new things.
Quote from: Brian on December 16, 2010, 07:49:43 AM
I think I listened to a Tournemire symphony once :o it was about five years ago when I went on Naxos.com and decided to try a composer I'd never heard of from every letter. Can't remember a thing about it. I do remember liking Mihaly Mosonyi... ought to give that a spin sometime.
Maybe that's something to try again soon. It unearthed a huge world of new things.
Not at all a bad exercise! Of course, inability to remember a thing about the music is one risk of trying 26 composers you'd never heard of : ) The good news is, you remember Henning ; )
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on December 16, 2010, 05:02:30 AM
You and the But make me smile.
Ah; the naivety of youth. What you really should fear is
not hearing everything worthwhile.
My only regret is purchasing shit that now I don't want. (It's the chief reason that I wait so long to buy things now. I really detest 'wasting' money.)
Quote from: Brian on December 16, 2010, 02:10:41 AM
... this sort of gnawing deep-inside fear that some day I will run out of things to discover and have everything I want to hear...
I know the feeling but agree with the reassuring replies that have appeared. Also, it helps to develop an interest in living composers: I'm confident some of my eventual favorite pieces have not yet been written!
Quote from: PaulSC on December 16, 2010, 12:01:50 PM
I'm confident some of my eventual favorite pieces have not yet been written!
A very wise observation. Thank you for putting it so concisely.
--Bruce
Big thumb's-up!
Quote from: Philoctetes on December 16, 2010, 08:34:36 AM
My only regret is purchasing shit that now I don't want. (It's the chief reason that I wait so long to buy things now. I really detest 'wasting' money.)
And the strange irony of this is that MY regret is not having learned early on to buy things when they come out, especially PI Classical Era recordings, since most (seriously, most!) of them are only available in a very short window, and most of
those are never re-released. Going back a couple of years alter and buying them from the resale leeches has damned near broken me... :-\
8)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on December 16, 2010, 12:24:35 PM
And the strange irony of this is that MY regret is not having learned early on to buy things when they come out, especially PI Classical Era recordings, since most (seriously, most!) of them are only available in a very short window, and most of those are never re-released. Going back a couple of years alter and buying them from the resale leeches has damned near broken me... :-\
8)
And isn't THAT the truth, which is also true with much contemporary fare. (And chuckling at "resale leeches"...)
--Bruce
Quote from: PaulSC on December 16, 2010, 12:01:50 PM
I know the feeling but agree with the reassuring replies that have appeared. Also, it helps to develop an interest in living composers: I'm confident some of my eventual favorite pieces have not yet been written!
This is a not-so-subtle hint to resident composers
Karl Henning and
Luke Ottevanger to buy some more music paper...with 36 staves!
Quote from: bhodges on December 16, 2010, 12:26:43 PM
And isn't THAT the truth, which is also true with much contemporary fare. (And chuckling at "resale leeches"...)
--Bruce
As I dig into contemporary I see the parallels between the two. You try to listen to not so famous composers, and you have a few select ensembles that champion them on labels that do limited releases and go oop... yup.
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on December 16, 2010, 12:24:35 PM
And the strange irony of this is that MY regret is not having learned early on to buy things when they come out, especially PI Classical Era recordings, since most (seriously, most!) of them are only available in a very short window, and most of those are never re-released. Going back a couple of years alter and buying them from the resale leeches has damned near broken me... :-\
8)
I totally get that sentiment. Although, you'll never have to worry about Beethoven symphonies going OOP. :-X
Quote from: Philoctetes on December 16, 2010, 04:08:25 PM
I totally get that sentiment. Although, you'll never have to worry about Beethoven symphonies going OOP. :-X
Oh sure. I need 7 more Karajan cycles... ::) Those bastards
never go OOP. :P
I saw some L'Archibudelli Beethoven chamber music though that I bought new "in the window" in 1997, and after not seeing them again at all for 10 years or so, I started seeing them on the Marketplace for around $75 - 100 / disk. And as good as they are, and as much as I enjoy them, $100/disk, they ain't! ::)
8)
----------------
Now playing:
Anima Eterna Orchestra \ Immerseel - K 316a 365 Concerto in Eb for 2 Claviers 2nd mvmt - Andante
Quote from: erato on December 16, 2010, 08:31:03 AM
Ah; the naivety of youth. What you really should fear is not hearing everything worthwhile.
That has always been my big fear, as well :). And when I listen to classical, indie, jazz, reggae, black metal, soul, folk, electronica, rap, psychedlica, rock, pop etc + update on several music magazines on a regular basis it is quite demanding to listen to everything worthwhile. But I do see that some people do no have the same curious nature, and this goes both for music, film, literature, food, drink + different subjects on history, psychology etc. Like some in Trondheim can live happily on "Løvbiff" and "Biffsnadder" all their days.
Quote from: rubio on December 16, 2010, 09:49:52 PM
Like some in Trondheim can live happily on "Løvbiff" and "Biffsnadder" all their days.
You've probably been to "Egon".
Seems we're very similar.
Quote from: rubio on December 16, 2010, 09:49:52 PM
Like some in Trondheim can live happily on "Løvbiff" and "Biffsnadder" all their days.
I would live happily all the rest of my days if I could live in Trondheim. Really.
Quote from: erato on December 16, 2010, 11:28:10 PM
You've probably been to "Egon".
Seems we're very similar.
I have been to Egon, but that's about 15 years ago. I think Egon is for the big occasions. For the everyday meal it was something like O' Martin.
Quote from: AndyD. on December 17, 2010, 07:11:38 AM
I would live happily all the rest of my days if I could live in Trondheim. Really.
I could also. It's a beautiful city :).
Quote from: AndyD. on December 12, 2010, 08:05:17 AM
On the main shopping drag here in Burlington, Vermont (Church Street), they play almost entirely Mozart throughout the Christmas season. That in itself tends to blur the line between "Mozart" and "Muzak" for me.
Andy, is the hot dog lady still in business on Church Street?
Quote from: Szykniej on December 18, 2010, 04:42:22 AM
Andy, is the hot dog lady still in business on Church Street?
I think the family business got passed on. The vending mobile is still there. I am shocked at how many people here are familiar with Burlington!
Quote from: AndyD. on December 18, 2010, 07:02:04 AM
I think the family business got passed on. The vending mobile is still there. I am shocked at how many people here are familiar with Burlington!
Well, I didn't mean to be, I was just born there. But I got to Texas as quick as I could... :D
8)
Quote from: AndyD. on December 18, 2010, 07:02:04 AM
I think the family business got passed on. The vending mobile is still there. I am shocked at how many people here are familiar with Burlington!
At one time my wife was district manager for a retail chain that had a store on Church Street. She would plan her visits there for weekends when my son and I could keep her company and roam the city while she was at work. On our annual holiday season visit, we would stock up on maple syrup and pancake mix for Christmas presents. On one return trip, we kept the septuagenarian airport security staff busy for half an hour as they meticulously examined our 50-pound bag of maple syrup tins looking for whatever a couple with a 5-year-old kid might be smuggling from Burlington to Boston. It probably gave them something to do to kill some time since there was only one other passenger on the flight.
Quote from: Szykniej on December 18, 2010, 07:38:32 AM
At one time my wife was district manager for a retail chain that had a store on Church Street. She would plan her visits there for weekends when my son and I could keep her company and roam the city while she was at work. On our annual holiday season visit, we would stock up on maple syrup and pancake mix for Christmas presents. On one return trip, we kept the septuagenarian airport security staff busy for half an hour as they meticulously examined our 50-pound bag of maple syrup tins looking for whatever a couple with a 5-year-old kid might be smuggling from Burlington to Boston. It probably gave them something to do to kill some time since there was only one other passenger on the flight.
This is a great Christmas story, thanks! I have a big smile on.
As you probably know, most of the stores on Church Street have a high turnover rate. New stuff up, old stuff down all the time.