GMG Classical Music Forum

I did not see a thread specifically about this composer, so here it is:


"I am a religious person...and by 'religion' I mean re-ligio, the re-tying of a bond...restoring the legato of life. Life divides man into many pieces...There is no weightier occupation than the recomposition of spiritual integrity through the composition of music." -- Sofiya Gubaydulina

In Russian composer Sofiya Gubaydulina's 1986 symphony Slïshu...umolko ("I hear...silence"), the composer writes a cadenza for conductor. The orchestra is largely silent save for a few rumblings from bass drums, during which the conductor melds this quasi-silence into strong but delicate contours; with agonizingly slow precision, the conductor eventually brings his hands upwards, tracing a Christmas-tree shape, until they are fully stretched towards the heavens. He flips his hands upwards, and the organ, nestled deep in the orchestra, catches the gesture and begins the symphony's apocalyptic final movement. The gesture is wonderfully symbolic of Gubaydulina's work in general, obsessed as it is with the "other sides" of music -- with "re-tying the bonds" between gesture and sound, sound and silence, silence and noise, this sensate world and the super-sensate next. From early works like Night in Memphis (1968) through the now classic Offertorium and Seven Last Words of the early '80s, and up to the Double Viola Concerto "Two Paths" from 1999, Gubaydulina's music traces an impassioned commitment "to restore a sense of integrity" to both art and life. In this sense her music is unabashedly re-ligious: it finds and binds the fissures which mark human solitude, with a brazen honesty rare in music even today.

Sofia Asgatovna Gubaydulina was born on October 24, 1931, in Chistopol', in the Tatar Republic; growing up there, Gubaydulina would bind peculiar fusion of Eastern and Western into dramatic polarities in her later work. She graduated from the Kazan' Conservatory in 1954 having studied composition and piano; she then left for Moscow, where she studied at the Conservatory with Nikolay Peyko until 1959, and then with Shebalin until 1963. Already by this time, Gubaydulina was marked as an "irresponsible" composer on "a mistaken path"; Shostakovich, among others, supported her however, advising her to "continue along [her] mistaken path." By the mid-1970s Gubaydulina founded a folk-instrument improvisation group with fellow composers Victor Suslin and Vyacheslav Artyomov called Astreja, still active in the late 1990s. Today Gubaydulina is a successful freelance composer, having won a number of prestigious composition prizes and grants.

In many ways, the cross is the most potent symbol in Gubaydulina's work -- it is the consummate node of intersection, the site of re-tying both as a mark of salvation and greatest suffering. So many of her works contain cross imagery, often through elaborate, predestined meeting-and-diverging points for distinct sounding bodies or musical concepts. Hence the great "crossings" of 1979's In Croce (between cello and organ), 1981's Rejoice (cello and violin), 1982's Seven Last Words (cello, bayan, and strings), and 1980's Offertorium (violin and orchestra). And in the 12-movement symphony, the crux occurs between sound (the orchestra) and silence itself (the pantomiming conductor), each on its own desperately etched trajectory. But what perhaps most astonishing about Gubaydulina's music is how, amidst such formally rigorous edifices (the cross, the mass-sequence, the Fibonacci series), a voice of such supple, passionate directness arises. Gubaydulina's work, even while unfolding an apocalyptic itinerary, often sounds breathed out in the moment, in- and ex-pired, systolic and organic; filaments or melody float, buffet, and fall, even as a musical cataclysm ferments. This tight religious knot of opposites may well account for Gubaydulina's success in the West in the late twentieth century; she is now certainly considered one of the most important composers alive today.

[Article taken from All Music Guide]

I haven't heard but one of her works, the Viola Concerto and was really enchanted with it from start to finish. The work had this very ethereal quality to it. What do you guys think about her music in general?

To those who enjoy her music, where would you recommend I go next?

I strongly recommend this disc, which includes Gubaidulina's Violin Concerto 'In Tempus Praesens'

(http://boxset.ru/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/bach_mutter_gubaidulina_violin-concertos.jpg)

I have this disc, features an excellent string quartet (the others on the disc are great too):

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/415FCEM8ECL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

:)

Quote from: James on November 17, 2010, 03:29:02 PM
OFFERTORIUM
Gubaidulina's violin concerto, Offertorium (1980, revised 1982 & 1986), was one of her first works to become known outside the Soviet Union. It's a moving and virtuosic piece, built entirely around the theme of J.S. Bach's Musical Offering, which is stated at the beginning, spread between different instruments in the style of Webern's orchestral transcription of the work. For Gubaidulina, Offertorium represents an attempt "...to unite the two personalities in the history of music who have produced the greatest impression on me." In the first part of the work's single movement the theme is heard several times, but with each variation it gradually disintegrates; by the end of Offertorium the theme has been transfigured and is played in retrograde by the soloist - a moment of calm beauty and resolution.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51AFwhD5ZGL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

One of the best performances comes from Gidon Kremer, for whom the work was written; his passionate account is coupled with Hommage a T.S. Eliot (1987) for soprano and octet.

Yes, thanks for the information, James. I bought this recording today actually. Can't wait to hear it.

For me Gubaidulina was at her best between 1980 and 2002. Her development of forms based on the Fibonacci sequence, and later the Lucas and Evangelist series as well, gave a peculiar quality to her music, as if time itself was sanctified. Pro et contra, Perception and the Symphony are long works with portions of minimal content, but they never drag, they never try my patience, for the proportions of the music at both the large scale and the small are simply perfect.

However, since finishing her Passion and Easter according to St John (IMO her masterpiece) the goodness of her music has dropped off precipitously. Some works like In tempus praesens just seem collections of stock gestures, like late Messiaen. Other pieces are explorations of timbre that seem mere sketches for some forthcoming great work, but that work never comes.

I have this cd, which is a good introduction of her chamber music (me being more into chamber) -
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51isHc-1s-L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

This music is a bit hit and miss with me. Gubaidulina seems a bit like Hovhaness, she likes to compose music with a certain (ersatz?) spirituality. Sometimes I just wish she'd lighten up a bit. Does all her music HAVE to be spiritual and religious? In Seven Words, the string work reminds me a bit of Sibelius - icy and distanced. In contrast, the cello and accordion soloists' work is more emotionally involved and expressive, imo. Some of this stuff would not be out of place in horror films - it's spooky, quirky & wierd (perhaps I mean that in a good way?). But it's good to hear the Russian button accordion (the bayan), because it's not that often heard. Some of these works were originally written for organ, and then transcribed for the bayan. When the air is let out of the accordion, it sounds a bit like the sighs of Christ on the cross. I'm pretty sure that this was intentional on the composer's part. When I got this cd, it sounded pretty novel, but now that the novelty has worn off, I feel as if I'm left with very little. But I will give it a relisten tonight if I'm in the mood. I have heard a bit of Offertorium but it just seemed to be covering ground that had already been gone over in the above works. The Mutter recording is in my local library & I plan to borrow it at some stage.

But the way in which Gubaidulina stuck at her "incorrect path" amidst the anti-religious regime she was living under (the USSR) is pretty inspiring, imo. It was a courageous thing for her to compose music which was blatantly religious in that kind of hostile climate. Artists in the West cannot begin to imagine the nature of how it is (or would be) living under a dictatorship which tries to control and censor everything which they see as a threat...

Quote from: Sid on November 17, 2010, 08:10:44 PMI have heard a bit of Offertorium but it just seemed to be covering ground that had already been gone over in the above works. The Mutter recording is in my local library & I plan to borrow it at some stage...

Apart of any art is that it progresses, Gubaidulina is progressing in the sense that she has found her style and, like Part or Schnittke, she continues to develop on this style. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss a major work like Offertorium just yet. You have only heard this composition in bits and pieces? It's funny a year ago, you were telling me to not rush to judgement about the composer Frank Martin, but after all is said and done, you ended up doing the same thing I did. Oh, the irony... :D

I don't think I'm doing the same thing as you did. My review of that Gubaidulina chamber cd was pretty mixed. I noted some things I thought were good, as well as offering some criticisms. Perhaps I should have withheld judgement on Offertorium, since I haven't heard all of it, but I did say that it only seemed to cover ground that had already been trodden on by the composer (& CRCulver made some similar points above). I've been listening to the Naxos chamber disc for over a year, and (of course) my impressions of the music have changed over that time (just as your opinion of things like Frank Martin have changed). I'm leaving the door open to Gubaidulina, and (in fact) aim to listen to that disc tonight when I get home. I'll post some more solid impressions of it here or in the latest listening thread when I get the chance...

Quote from: Sid on November 17, 2010, 09:02:28 PM
I don't think I'm doing the same thing as you did. My review of that Gubaidulina chamber cd was pretty mixed. I noted some things I thought were good, as well as offering some criticisms. Perhaps I should have withheld judgement on Offertorium, since I haven't heard all of it, but I did say that it only seemed to cover ground that had already been trodden on by the composer (& CRCulver made some similar points above). I'm leaving the door open to Gubaidulina, and (in fact) aim to listen to that Naxos chamber disc tonight when I get home. I'll post some more solid impressions of it here or in the latest listening thread when I get the chance...

I'm not talking about the chamber music disc you critiqued above, I was talking about Offertorium, which is a work of a completely different atmosphere altogether.

Anyway, it doesn't matter to me what anybody thinks in the end, I like a lot of music that a lot of other people don't and I'm listening to Reich's Music for 18 Musicians right now and how many classical listeners do you know who have dismissed this piece? Probably all of the conservative listeners who think classical died after Beethoven or Schubert. These peole make me so f****** mad. They don't have a damn clue about music. All they care about is hearing Beethoven's 9th for the hundredth time, so they can leave the concert halls "satisfied." If I go to a concert, I'm going to make sure there's not a workhorse on the programme and that they're playing all 20th Century works.

Quote from: Sid on November 17, 2010, 08:10:44 PM
I have heard a bit of Offertorium but it just seemed to be covering ground that had already been gone over in the above works.

Hearing a bit of this piece is really no way to judge it. Set aside some time and give it your full attention. That's what I did the first time I tackled it, in the dark with the headphones on. It made a great impression.

Well, failed to make it through the recording of the new violin concerto with Mutter.  I will put it aside and try again later.  One problem was reading the CD booklet.  Gubaidulina's discussion of the work seems to be mainly centered on the idea that the collaboration with Mutter is based on the fact that they have the same first name, and therefore share a deep bond.   Hard to divorce the impression of the music from the impression that the composer is a half-wit.   ::)

Quote from: Velimir on November 17, 2010, 10:28:38 PM
Hearing a bit of this piece is really no way to judge it. Set aside some time and give it your full attention. That's what I did the first time I tackled it, in the dark with the headphones on. It made a great impression.

It's true, I usually don't judge a piece after just a partial hearing. But I did revisit the Naxos chamber music disc above & I think that an aspect of her music which is difficult to stomach for me (& this is what I remember from Offertorium) are these parts where the instruments are pushed to the highest register. This seems to happen often in the pieces by her which I have (fully!) heard - the three on the Naxos chamber disc. I know that Xenakis & Messiaen used the same technique a lot - & they are amongst my favourite composers - but the way Gubaidulina does it seems much different. Not that that's a problem, but I just have to give the music more repeated listening & get my head around it.

Above I said her music sounds like the soundtrack to a horror movie and having re-read the Naxos cd's notes I was reminded how she worked for many years as a film composer. So no surprises there.

Quote from: Scarpia on November 18, 2010, 07:02:43 AM
Well, failed to make it through the recording of the new violin concerto with Mutter.  I will put it aside and try again later.  One problem was reading the CD booklet.  Gubaidulina's discussion of the work seems to be mainly centered on the fact that the collaboration with Mutter is based on the fact that they have she same first name, and therefore share a deep bond.   Hard to divorce the impression of the music from the impression that the composer is a half-wit.   ::)

Well, Gubaidulina makes more sense in the notes of the Naxos cd, where she says the Seven Last Words (works of Schutz and Haydn) where very much on her mind when she composed her own work with that title (the title, because it was religious, had to be supressed at the Soviet premiere of the work in the early 1980's).

But true, not all composers are helpful in discussing their works. Boulez gets way too intellectual and above the average lay listener's head. One composer whose words I think are very helpful when seeking guidance about his music is Elliot Carter. He seems to cut to the chase & describe the things that motivated him to write his pieces in quite a direct, no nonsense way. Not all composers are like that, alas...

I'm listening to Feast during a Plague again for the first time in a couple of years. It's just awful. I wonder if it will remain in Gubaidulina's catalogue when I can't imagine any ensemble ever taking it up again.

Quote from: CRCulver on December 27, 2010, 03:39:59 PM
I'm listening to Feast during a Plague again for the first time in a couple of years. It's just awful. I wonder if it will remain in Gubaidulina's catalogue when I can't imagine any ensemble ever taking it up again.

Where did you get this recording from? As far as I know, it is commercially unrecorded, and I haven't seen it pop up on broadcasts.

Quote from: lescamil on December 27, 2010, 08:07:22 PM
Where did you get this recording from? As far as I know, it is commercially unrecorded, and I haven't seen it pop up on broadcasts.

There's a (radio?) recording that floats around on filesharing networks.

Quote from: CRCulver on December 28, 2010, 06:52:57 AM
There's a (radio?) recording that floats around on filesharing networks.

Do you mind uploading it? Or can you point out where you got it from?

Quote from: lescamil on December 28, 2010, 09:24:19 AM
Do you mind uploading it? Or can you point out where you got it from?

Yes. No.

Listening to Gubaidulina's Feast During a Plague right now (I managed to find it online), and I happen to like it a bit. That brass fanfare at the beginning sets up the piece quite well. I could see this piece getting more performances in the future with the right circumstances. It doesn't place as great a demand on the performers from what I can tell compared to some other mammoth works by Gubaidulina, some of which are performed more often than Feast is, such as Offertorium (again, from what I can tell looking at the scores), which I have seen pop up quite a bit on programs in recent years.

I had the great pleasure of hearing the premiere, in Philadelphia (and got to meet Gubaidulina, too, which I really enjoyed), and reviewed the concert here (http://www.musicweb-international.com/SandH/2006/Jan-Jun06/rattle1802.htm).

Then I heard the piece in New York a few months later by the Pittsburgh Symphony, and liked it even more after a second hearing.

--Bruce

Quote from: lescamil on February 06, 2011, 12:57:14 PM
Listening to Gubaidulina's Feast During a Plague right now (I managed to find it online), and I happen to like it a bit. That brass fanfare at the beginning sets up the piece quite well. I could see this piece getting more performances in the future with the right circumstances.

Beyond it just being an awful piece, I wonder if the lack of repeat performances is due to Rattle's involvement, as the previous piece that Gubaidulina wrote for him, Zeitgestalten is similarly little-performed. Perhaps she wished that only Rattle conduct this piece, and his busy schedule would mean that he can't get around to it again soon.

Just curious, what didn't you like about it?  :-\  (I confess I haven't heard it since--aside from the two live performances.)

--Bruce

It's curious that so much of Gubaidulina's recent output is written for multiple guitars. From her current catalogue we have:

• Ravvedimento for cello and guitar quartet (2007)
• Pentimento, arrangement of Ravvedimento for double bass and three guitars (2007)
• Repentance, arrangement of Ravvedimento for cello, three guitars and double bass (2008)
• Sotto voce for viola, double bass and two guitars (2010)

Quote from: bhodges on February 06, 2011, 01:26:00 PM
Just curious, what didn't you like about it?  :-\  (I confess I haven't heard it since--aside from the two live performances.)

In his 1990s documentary series Leaving Home, Simon Rattle recounted that Gubaidulina viewed music with a repetitive beat, namely the early Soviet rock 'n' roll she heard in her Moscow apartment block, as demonic. I find the taped material in Feast during a Plague to be a facile and downright crotchety method of representing evil. "Get off my lawn, you crazy kids with your techno music!"

Ah, gotcha. I hadn't heard that story, thanks, and can see your point.

--Bruce

I finally got a radio recording of Two Paths, Gubaidulina's concerto for two violas and orchestra. It's a real shame this was never commercially recorded, as it's one of her strongest works of the era.

The piece was written for the NY Philharmonic. Didn't the NY Phil have some policy in the 1990s that they had the rights to first recording of anything they commissioned, which meant that a piece could never be recorded if they didn't want to do it themselves? I recall Carter's Symphonia facing the same problem.

Quote from: CRCulver on October 24, 2011, 02:05:39 PM
I finally got a radio recording of Two Paths, Gubaidulina's concerto for two violas and orchestra. It's a real shame this was never commercially recorded, as it's one of her strongest works of the era.

The piece was written for the NY Philharmonic. Didn't the NY Phil have some policy in the 1990s that they had the rights to first recording of anything they commissioned, which meant that a piece could never be recorded if they didn't want to do it themselves? I recall Carter's Symphonia facing the same problem.

At least Symphonia did get recorded, though IIRC that's a more complex situation as each part of it was commissioned by a different orchestra or orchestras.

I had the chance to get a first listen to the new bayan concerto Fachwerk last week--I wasn't any too impressed, but hopefully it'll come over better on a second try. It seemed, though, an odd decision to couple it with Silenzio--a work that Naxos has already recorded. (Surely one or two of the many other bayan pieces would have been a better option.)

Next month ECM will release a disc (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0066LS9Q4?ie=UTF8&tag=3636363-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=1789&creativeASIN=B0066LS9Q4) with yet another (the fourth!) recording of Gubaidulina's "Canticle of the Sun". What really makes it special, however, is the first commercial recording of "The Lyre of Orpheus" for violin and strings, which really deserved to be called the composer's second violin concerto -- I've loved the piece from a radio recording for years, and it's much better than the Violin Concerto No. 2 we eventually got.

Quote from: CRCulver on January 11, 2012, 03:27:09 AM
Next month ECM will release a disc (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0066LS9Q4?ie=UTF8&tag=3636363-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=1789&creativeASIN=B0066LS9Q4) with yet another (the fourth!) recording of Gubaidulina's "Canticle of the Sun". What really makes it special, however, is the first commercial recording of "The Lyre of Orpheus" for violin and strings, which really deserved to be called the composer's second violin concerto -- I've loved the piece from a radio recording for years, and it's much better than the Violin Concerto No. 2 we eventually got.

You can find it on youtube! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4lPrz4Nhtk
I would have to listen to it more carefully, but my initial impression was quite positive.

Another piece that I REALLY liked is a cello octet called Fata Morgana, very inventive, and the end is a lot of great fun! Again, you can find it on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktUNVOrXGto

"The unusual ensemble (eight cellos) offers a variety of sound and textural possibilities. The luminous natural harmonics were especially interesting for me. I used these in order to give expression to the form of a dancing sun. Let us imagine the image of a disk of the sun rotating very rapidly round its own immobile centre and throwing out "flame arrows" in various directions. This image arises in the last third of the work. Everything that has happened before is merely a preparation for this moment."

An interview with Gubaidulina popped up today at www.classicalarchives.com, with the occasion of her 80th birthday. She discusses a few of her pieces, as well as the techniques and ideologies that are part of her music. If you like her music, you should check it out!

http://www.classicalarchives.com/feature/gubaidulina_interview2.html

Any news on when we'll finally hear Gubaidulina's Concerto for Orchestra? It was supposed to be premiered all the way back in 2011 by the Concertgebouw, but the composer said she hadn't finished it in time because of illness.

Quote from: CRCulver on February 04, 2013, 08:14:55 AM
Any news on when we'll finally hear Gubaidulina's Concerto for Orchestra? It was supposed to be premiered all the way back in 2011 by the Concertgebouw, but the composer said she hadn't finished it in time because of illness.

Meanwhile we only have this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0lHdCCZWfE&feature=related

The last post was in 2013!  ::)

I couldn't help listening to this excellent CD with her string quartets:

(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/SU4078-2.jpg)

My goodness, tremendously mind-blowing stuff!! I'm in sheer awe with this. Some of the most striking string quartets I've heard recently. Their dark sonorities make them utterly intriguing, spooky, even scary at times. Unexpected stunning music. Where had they been all this time??? I can't recommend this enough for the curious and adventurous listener.

I figured I would resurrect this thread from abyss. Lately, I have found myself in throes of a bit of a Gubaidulina binge. I remained for many years rather ambivalent to her music, but, as often the case with me and gaining more listening experience, I have to say she's become a favorite. I think she is one of those composers along her contemporaries like Schnittke, Denisov et. al. who essentially gave their finger to the whole Soviet musical establishment, although Schnittke doesn't completely break with tradition nor does Gubaidulina, but what I find fascinating about her music is her use of space or, at least, in many of the works I've heard this past week or so. She is truly a unique compositional voice and I have found that in several of the interviews I've seen of her via YouTube that she truly believes that her music is on another spiritual plane. It's not of this earth.

Some videos with Gubaidulina:

https://www.youtube.com/v/oEFnOCl5Ufo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaT3ksqDsqY

A deeply fascinating composer on many levels.

I ordered this concert/documentary tonight:

(https://media.s-bol.com/BzBgNzEPRZx/879x1200.jpg)

Definitely looking forward to watching this film as I've been listening to quite a bit of Gubaidulina these last couple of weeks.

One of my favorite composers, Gubaidulina turned 90 yesterday. Right now, listening to her Second String Quartet (1987) by the Danish String Quartet, who are fantastic. (My first listen to this recording.)

About 9 minutes long, the piece opens with a unison "G" meditation, before venturing elsewhere. Some kind soul has synced the recording with the score, which is always welcome as one of the best educational tools.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbyHVU3ny4c

--Bruce

It's hard to fathom that she's 90 yrs. old and she's showing no signs of slowing down either it seems. She's still composing. It seems she's even more active now than she was say 30 years ago. I guess with as much recognition she gets nowadays, she has more and more obligations or things she's agreed to like interviews, public speeches, etc. She's such a huge inspiration to me.

Gubaidulina and Ustvolskaya are my favourite Russian composers.

Quote from: Brewski on October 25, 2021, 11:51:27 AM
One of my favorite composers, Gubaidulina turned 90 yesterday. Right now, listening to her Second String Quartet (1987) by the Danish String Quartet, who are fantastic. (My first listen to this recording.)

About 9 minutes long, the piece opens with a unison "G" meditation, before venturing elsewhere. Some kind soul has synced the recording with the score, which is always welcome as one of the best educational tools.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbyHVU3ny4c

--Bruce

Thanks, that's really quite something. I've listened to and been interested by various things from her over the years, without anything ever quite fully lighting up for me. But that seems to have nudged the moment somewhat closer.  :)

Happy birthday to Ms. Gubaidulina. Age 90, amazing. I have yet to really click with any of her music, but I would love to hear more of it. The only disc I have is The Canticle of the Sun with Rostropovich on EMI, and I think it may be a tad too esoteric for me. Anyone have any recommendations?

According to Wikipedia, she idolizes Anton Webern and J.S. Bach—two of my favorite composers.

Quote from: vers la flamme on October 25, 2021, 01:16:58 PM
Happy birthday to Ms. Gubaidulina. Age 90, amazing. I have yet to really click with any of her music, but I would love to hear more of it. The only disc I have is The Canticle of the Sun with Rostropovich on EMI, and I think it may be a tad too esoteric for me. Anyone have any recommendations?

According to Wikipedia, she idolizes Anton Webern and J.S. Bach—two of my favorite composers.

I am in a similar situation, I have only heard one of her works, In tempus praesens, performed by Anne-Sophie Mutter and it didn't resonate with me. I'm not aware of how that work relates to Gubaiduilina's body of work.

Quote from: Spotted Horses on October 25, 2021, 01:22:37 PM
I am in a similar situation, I have only heard one of her works, In tempus praesens, performed by Anne-Sophie Mutter and it didn't resonate with me. I'm not aware of how that work relates to Gubaiduilina's body of work.

That is the only work I have heard as well.

I ordered this:

(https://i.postimg.cc/T37VYNWZ/image-2021-10-25-T172000-496.jpg)

Excited to check it out.

Some of my favorite Gubaidulina works: Sieben Worte, Fachwerk, Viola Concerto, Pro et Contra, Offertorium, Music for Flute, Strings and Percussion, Piano Sonata, Garten von Freuden und Traurigkeiten and Alleluja. She was a difficult composer for me to get into because I didn't quite understand where she was coming from musically. Sometimes it takes awhile to assess a composer's style(s) and Penderecki was another one that took me quite some time to get into. She's not easy and her music doesn't fall on the ears like a velvet blanket, but I think she's an incredible composer and has a phenomenal ear for sonorities.

Quote from: vers la flamme on October 25, 2021, 01:25:39 PM
I ordered this:

(https://i.postimg.cc/T37VYNWZ/image-2021-10-25-T172000-496.jpg)

Excited to check it out.

A great disc! I wish Rozhdestvensky had recorded more of her work.

Quote from: vers la flamme on October 25, 2021, 01:16:58 PM
Happy birthday to Ms. Gubaidulina. Age 90, amazing. I have yet to really click with any of her music, but I would love to hear more of it. The only disc I have is The Canticle of the Sun with Rostropovich on EMI, and I think it may be a tad too esoteric for me. Anyone have any recommendations?

According to Wikipedia, she idolizes Anton Webern and J.S. Bach—two of my favorite composers.

You might try Offertorium (her first violin concerto), which uses the theme from Bach's BWV 1079 as its starting point. Gubaidulina then takes that theme and subjects it to a somewhat Webern-like treatment (i.e., the piece shows influences of both).

On YouTube (just for easy access), I see the original with Gidon Kremer, which is very good. But there are also a good number of other, more recent versions that look quite interesting.

I am listening to this one now, and so far, it's superb. (I don't recall ever hearing this violinist.)
Arabella Steinbacher with Christoph von Dohnányi and NDR Sinfonieorchester (from 2009)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob6hHDbLxo8

--Bruce

Quote from: Mirror Image on October 25, 2021, 02:56:16 PM
Some of my favorite Gubaidulina works: Sieben Worte, Fachwerk, Viola Concerto, Pro et Contra, Offertorium, Music for Flute, Strings and Percussion, Piano Sonata, Garten von Freuden und Traurigkeiten and Alleluja.

All good recs. She has a particular love for low timbres, so there's a lot of bassoon and lower strings in many of her works.

Quote from: vers la flamme on October 25, 2021, 01:25:39 PM
I ordered this:

(https://i.postimg.cc/T37VYNWZ/image-2021-10-25-T172000-496.jpg)

Excited to check it out.

A great one. Hope you like it, and let us know!

--Bruce

Quote from: Brewski on October 25, 2021, 05:28:36 PMI am listening to this one now, and so far, it's superb. (I don't recall ever hearing this violinist.)
Arabella Steinbacher with Christoph von Dohnányi and NDR Sinfonieorchester (from 2009)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob6hHDbLxo8

--Bruce

I am a fan of Steinbacher, particularly her recordings of the Bartok Concerti, and French Violin Sonatas.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71HyLYNon0S._SX522_.jpg)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51BwAsG+tGL.jpg)

Quote from: Spotted Horses on October 25, 2021, 06:37:06 PM
I am a fan of Steinbacher, particularly her recordings of the Bartok Concerti, and French Violin Sonatas.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71HyLYNon0S._SX522_.jpg)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51BwAsG+tGL.jpg)

Thanks for these recs. As a fan of all of these, will want to hear them at some point.

--Bruce

Deutsche Grammophon has just released a recording (https://www.deutschegrammophon.com/en/catalogue/products/gubaidulina-nelsons-repin-12472) of three recent(-ish) orchestral works by Gubaidulina.

After some Gubaidulina love elsewhere, I found this fantastic live survey of all four of her string quartets, performed last fall by the Poland-based Royal String Quartet. Marvelous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbeS-PUaqDo

--Bruce

Friday at 11:00 am (EST), cellist Julia Hagen will perform some of Gubaidulina's works for solo cello. The cool thing: she'll be at the architectural marvel that is the Elbphilharmonie in Hamburg, but not inside the hall.

In the parking garage.


-Bruce

To be released on 2 August:

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTYyODk5My4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE3MTYzODY2OTh9)

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 23, 2024, 09:40:38 AMTo be released on 2 August:

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTYyODk5My4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE3MTYzODY2OTh9)

Andrew Manze conducting Gubaidulina?!?!? Well, he's full of surprises. This upcoming release will be, for me, a must-buy of course. I love Gubaidulina's concerti. Thanks for the alert, Cesar!

Very sad to hear that Sofia Gubaidulina has died (https://www.boosey.com/cr/news/Sofia-Gubaidulina-the-most-important-Russian-composer-dies-at-age-93/102623) at the age of 93.

Love her works, and will figure out what to listen to later.

Sad news indeed! RIP

Bad news, indeed! She's such an amazing composer. RIP, Ms. Gubaidulina.

Sorry to hear this news. I very much like what I have heard of her music.

Very sorry to hear this. Recall her attendance at Huddersfield Festival and Sofia Gubaidulina helping to set up the stage, before a performance of her choir and ensemble piece, Now Always Snow.
Think she was in her late 60s then. Just found a Moscow Conservatory recording of that work and listened again tonight, striking music. RIP

Quote from: Alex Bozman on March 14, 2025, 02:51:42 PMVery sorry to hear this. Recall her attendance at Huddersfield Festival and Sofia Gubaidulina helping to set up the stage, before a performance of her choir and ensemble piece, Now Always Snow.
Think she was in her late 60s then. Just found a Moscow Conservatory recording of that work and listened again tonight, striking music. RIP

Great story! A good memory to look back on.

I wrote this on another forum about Gubaidulina:

Back in 2020 (aka the year that hell officially broke loose), I took a seven month absence from work amidst the panic and uncertainty that was happening around this time. In this particular period, there were a lot of composers that were kind of on my "backburner" so to speak and Gubaidulina was one of them. For years, I found her music difficult and just too austere for my tastes, but I would say the work that broke the mold for me was Sieben Worte (Seven Words). I became obsessed with this piece and read as much as I could about it. I found it endlessly fascinating (and still do), but this was the piece that enabled me to lift the fog from her music and pursue it with an open-mind. I only owned a couple of her recordings, but I ended up with probably double what I owned after I got deeper into her music. A lot of listeners and historians have attached her music to religion or say it's spiritual. I wouldn't disagree with this as religion is vital to her existence, but it's not the only element in her style. I think her music has a vicious, snarling quality to it as well. She is obviously avant-garde in the way she employs unusual timbres and extended techniques within many of her works, but none of it is ever out-of-place or feels like she's just "note spinning". Hard to believe she's in her early 90s now. I hope she still has much life in her to give us more music. She has become one of my favorite composers.

Quote from: Der lächelnde Schatten on March 14, 2025, 06:50:31 PMI wrote this on another forum about Gubaidulina:

Back in 2020 (aka the year that hell officially broke loose), I took a seven month absence from work amidst the panic and uncertainty that was happening around this time. In this particular period, there were a lot of composers that were kind of on my "backburner" so to speak and Gubaidulina was one of them. For years, I found her music difficult and just too austere for my tastes, but I would say the work that broke the mold for me was Sieben Worte (Seven Words). I became obsessed with this piece and read as much as I could about it. I found it endlessly fascinating (and still do), but this was the piece that enabled me to lift the fog from her music and pursue it with an open-mind. I only owned a couple of her recordings, but I ended up with probably double what I owned after I got deeper into her music. A lot of listeners and historians have attached her music to religion or say it's spiritual. I wouldn't disagree with this as religion is vital to her existence, but it's not the only element in her style. I think her music has a vicious, snarling quality to it as well. She is obviously avant-garde in the way she employs unusual timbres and extended techniques within many of her works, but none of it is ever out-of-place or feels like she's just "note spinning". Hard to believe she's in her early 90s now. I hope she still has much life in her to give us more music. She has become one of my favorite composers.

Thanks for this helpful piece.

Quote from: foxandpeng on March 16, 2025, 04:20:21 PMThanks for this helpful piece.

Thank you. One of the many fascinating things I've read about her is when she's writing a new work, she conceives of the ending first and everything else comes after. So, in this way, she actually works her way backwards. Truly remarkable.

Quote from: Der lächelnde Schatten on March 20, 2025, 08:06:18 AMThank you. One of the many fascinating things I've read about her is when she's writing a new work, she conceives of the ending first and everything else comes after. So, in this way, she actually works her way backwards. Truly remarkable.

Agreed!

Quote from: Der lächelnde Schatten on March 20, 2025, 08:06:18 AMThank you. One of the many fascinating things I've read about her is when she's writing a new work, she conceives of the ending first and everything else comes after.

I'm not sure how this squares with her well-documented use of numerical mysticism: starting from the mid 1980s, she structured her pieces using the Fibonacci sequence and other such series. One can find sketches, for example, where the proportional skeleton was the first thing set down for a work. Did she then write the second half first?

Quote from: CRCulver on March 23, 2025, 02:44:13 AMI'm not sure how this squares with her well-documented use of numerical mysticism: starting from the mid 1980s, she structured her pieces using the Fibonacci sequence and other such series. One can find sketches, for example, where the proportional skeleton was the first thing set down for a work. Did she then write the second half first?

I'll let Frau Gubaidulina explain:

Being blown away by her amazing String Trio on this riveting performance:

(https://propermusic.com/cdn/shop/products/0722056268929.jpg?v=1677079749&width=700)

It feels creepy, dark, wholly absorbing from start to finish, featuring effective sonorities that help to create intriguing atmospheres. The ending of the first movement, especially, had me at the edge of my seat with its held intensity.

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 27, 2025, 05:42:23 PMBeing blown away by her amazing String Trio on this riveting performance:

(https://propermusic.com/cdn/shop/products/0722056268929.jpg?v=1677079749&width=700)

It feels creepy, dark, wholly absorbing from start to finish, featuring effective sonorities that help to create intriguing atmospheres. The ending of the first movement, especially, had me at the edge of my seat with its held intensity.

A fantastic set right there. I also love their Schnittke and Penderecki recordings:

(https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music112/v4/69/86/84/698684c0-3629-f60d-c7c4-329f4ca346ae/22UMGIM39408.rgb.jpg/600x600bb.jpg) (https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music112/v4/b6/b1/1e/b6b11e6c-9893-f5c8-f4f6-53ab0d05c188/22UMGIM15427.rgb.jpg/600x600bb.jpg) (https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music112/v4/a7/2c/9f/a72c9f54-1c7d-b6f7-c70b-58d82cf4b7b3/22UMGIM15498.rgb.jpg/600x600bb.jpg)

A fascinating composer, my favorite pieces are her Canticle of the Sun and viola concerto, though she has a lot of works I haven't listened to yet.

Quote from: Der lächelnde Schatten on May 27, 2025, 06:26:04 PMA fantastic set right there. I also love their Schnittke and Penderecki recordings:

(https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music112/v4/69/86/84/698684c0-3629-f60d-c7c4-329f4ca346ae/22UMGIM39408.rgb.jpg/600x600bb.jpg) (https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music112/v4/b6/b1/1e/b6b11e6c-9893-f5c8-f4f6-53ab0d05c188/22UMGIM15427.rgb.jpg/600x600bb.jpg) (https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music112/v4/a7/2c/9f/a72c9f54-1c7d-b6f7-c70b-58d82cf4b7b3/22UMGIM15498.rgb.jpg/600x600bb.jpg)

Top-quality recordings indeed. I'd include the sets of Górecki, Glass, Kurtág and Papineau-Couture (a lesser-known Canadian composer) as well.

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 27, 2025, 08:24:41 PMTop-quality recordings indeed. I'd include the sets of Górecki, Glass, Kurtág and Papineau-Couture (a lesser-known Canadian composer) as well.

I would've bought their Górecki but I already owned the Royal String Quartet's 2-CD set on Hyperion, but also the Kronos Quartet recordings, which are found in the Nonesuch Retrospective box set that was released probably about 8 or 9 years ago.

Quote from: atardecer on May 27, 2025, 07:51:50 PMA fascinating composer, my favorite pieces are her Canticle of the Sun and viola concerto, though she has a lot of works I haven't listened to yet.

Do give a listen to Offertorium and Sieben Worte. These are exquisite pieces. I also recommend her SQs, the String Trio, Quintet, much of his solo piano works, Music for Flute, Strings and Percussion, Concerto for bassoon and low strings and Alleluja.

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 27, 2025, 08:24:41 PMTop-quality recordings indeed. I'd include the sets of Górecki, Glass, Kurtág and Papineau-Couture (a lesser-known Canadian composer) as well.

Agreed for the Gorecki. Anything by Glass is worth hearing, of course.

To be released on 26 September:

(https://i.imgur.com/eVNpB1N.png)

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on May 27, 2025, 05:42:23 PMBeing blown away by her amazing String Trio on this riveting performance:

(https://propermusic.com/cdn/shop/products/0722056268929.jpg?v=1677079749&width=700)

It feels creepy, dark, wholly absorbing from start to finish, featuring effective sonorities that help to create intriguing atmospheres. The ending of the first movement, especially, had me at the edge of my seat with its held intensity.

Thanks for citing this! I have heard the Danish Quartet's version of the String Trio, but not this one.

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 25, 2025, 10:22:32 AMTo be released on 26 September:

(https://i.imgur.com/eVNpB1N.png)

Very nice to see a significant gap in the discography being filled here.

Quote from: not edward on June 25, 2025, 11:29:37 AMVery nice to see a significant gap in the discography being filled here.

True! Though I have heard the Chaconne, I have never even heard of the "Revue Music," and will look forward to that.

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 25, 2025, 10:22:32 AMTo be released on 26 September:

(https://i.imgur.com/eVNpB1N.png)

Just when I said I'm done buying CDs. This does look enticing. I'm probably going to get it. Thanks for the alert.

Quote from: brewski on June 25, 2025, 12:26:20 PMTrue! Though I have heard the Chaconne, I have never even heard of the "Revue Music," and will look forward to that.

Revue Music (aka Concerto for Two Orchestras) is very much not your typical Gubaidulina and I think will surprise a lot of folks.

Quote from: not edward on June 25, 2025, 11:29:37 AMVery nice to see a significant gap in the discography being filled here.

An intriguing release, certainly.

Quote from: brewski on June 25, 2025, 11:28:27 AMThanks for citing this! I have heard the Danish Quartet's version of the String Trio, but not this one.

I think it's a fully committed interpretation, but then again, we wouldn't expect less from the members of the Quatuor Molinari.

Quote from: Der lächelnde Schatten on June 25, 2025, 12:33:04 PMJust when I said I'm done buying CDs. This does look enticing. I'm probably going to get it. Thanks for the alert.

Just like you also said you were going to stick with a permanent avatar (on the another forum).  :P

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 25, 2025, 07:07:05 PMJust like you also said you were going to stick with a permanent avatar (on the another forum).  :P

 ;D

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 25, 2025, 10:22:32 AMTo be released on 26 September:

(https://i.imgur.com/eVNpB1N.png)

About damn time. I have a bootleg radio recording of Zeitgestalten, but I assumed that a commercial release was being held back all these decades by some contract clause giving Simon Rattle (the dedicatee IIRC) the right of first recording.