My old (15+ years) but beautiful sounding Sony closed back phones are on their last legs I suspect. I use them at work when I need some space to think and write. So I'm on the lookout for a quality set of phones I can use at work. I have the HD280s at home but they are possibly a bit bulky for my work space.
In this regard I've been looking at their cousin the HD25 Mk IIs. I've heard some excellent reports but also some that say that they are quite bright and therefore fatiguing after a while. So what I am after is your recommendations (forget price for the moment). If you've auditioned or own the HD25s I'd be particularly interested. However, if you have yourr own favourite then please tell me about it.
I want a warm but clean (sound (clarity). I listen to a lot of piano music.
Many thanks
Quote from: Holden on November 24, 2010, 07:47:52 PM
My old (15+ years) but beautiful sounding Sony closed back phones are on their last legs I suspect. I use them at work when I need some space to think and write. So I'm on the lookout for a quality set of phones I can use at work. I have the HD280s at home but they are possibly a bit bulky for my work space.
In this regard I've been looking at their cousin the HD25 Mk IIs. I've heard some excellent reports but also some that say that they are quite bright and therefore fatiguing after a while. So what I am after is your recommendations (forget price for the moment). If you've auditioned or own the HD25s I'd be particularly interested. However, if you have yourr own favourite then please tell me about it.
I want a warm but clean (sound (clarity). I listen to a lot of piano music.
Many thanks
I have the Sennheiser HD600, AKG 701 and Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro and they are all great headphones IMO even if none of them are closed back headphones. I also listen to a lot of piano music ...
Those are good headphones Stewie, but I think Holden wants something more portable if even the 280s won't do.
Curiously enough Holden, I'm after the same thing for the same reason-- warm yet detailed headphones that are portable. Portable for me though is swivel flat to fit in my laptop case.
Here is the link to the thread I made on head-fi to get recs--
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/524425/looking-for-headphones-that-swivel-flat (http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/524425/looking-for-headphones-that-swivel-flat)
If you have alot of time to spare, you'll see ljokerl on that thread, click on his portable hd shootout link on his sig.
Quote from: Holden on November 24, 2010, 07:47:52 PM
My old (15+ years) but beautiful sounding Sony closed back phones are on their last legs I suspect. I use them at work when I need some space to think and write. So I'm on the lookout for a quality set of phones I can use at work. I have the HD280s at home but they are possibly a bit bulky for my work space.
In this regard I've been looking at their cousin the HD25 Mk IIs. I've heard some excellent reports but also some that say that they are quite bright and therefore fatiguing after a while. So what I am after is your recommendations (forget price for the moment). If you've auditioned or own the HD25s I'd be particularly interested. However, if you have yourr own favourite then please tell me about it.
I want a warm but clean (sound (clarity). I listen to a lot of piano music.
Many thanks
It is hard to get closed back headphones with good sound, it seems that almost all of the good ones are open. The exception are Denon. I have the AH-D2000, which are rather bulky, but have a beautiful silky sound. They make somewhat smaller ones that are closed back, such as the AH-D1100. I also have the Sennheiser HD280, but I consider the Denon much better. One thing that really annoys me about the HD-280 is that any jiggling of the cord is heard distinctly in the headphones due to acoustical coupling. The sound of the HD-280 is also less refined. The Denons are also relatively easy to drive.
If you don't know about it already, this is a good site for browsing headphones.
www.headphone.com
I really don't like the 280s. The headband is like a vice, but easily breakable (i.e. poor build quality) and the sound quality isn't that impressive. They only thing they really offer is decent isolation. :-\
I checked out ljokerl....very interesting reviews.
Yeah he is thorough, and a true audiophile in the sense that he value neutrality and knows it when he hears it. Since there are so many dipshits on that forum that rec gear they haven't personally heard, his shootout is valuable. I just wish he would start a shootout on full sized headphones. ;D
Quote from: DavidW on November 27, 2010, 08:31:49 AM
Yeah he is thorough, and a true audiophile in the sense that he value neutrality and knows it when he hears it. Since there are so many dipshits on that forum that rec gear they haven't personally heard, his shootout is valuable. I just wish he would start a shootout on full sized headphones. ;D
I'm looking at the AT and Denon 'phones for the Pod, sometime in the future. The 280s may not be refined but they do have real bass, and a favorable match with portables. Still, I'm always looking for something better.
Quote from: drogulus on November 27, 2010, 01:47:01 PM
I'm looking at the AT and Denon 'phones for the Pod, sometime in the future. The 280s may not be refined but they do have real bass, and a favorable match with portables. Still, I'm always looking for something better.
Headphones (all of them) don't have real bass man. If you can't feel it, it ain't real.
Quote from: DavidW on November 27, 2010, 03:27:08 PM
Headphones (all of them) don't have real bass man. If you can't feel it, it ain't real.
My Bose came with this, David....so my bass is intact. ;D
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/87506/thumbs/s-MAGIC-FINGERS-large.jpg)
Knowing Bose they might... :D
Quote from: drogulus on November 27, 2010, 01:47:01 PM
I'm looking at the AT and Denon 'phones for the Pod, sometime in the future. The 280s may not be refined but they do have real bass, and a favorable match with portables. Still, I'm always looking for something better.
Denon has a much better low end than those HD280s
OK, I've been reading these responses and also doing some research. From this I have (at this point in time) four contenders. In alphabetical order they are:
AKG 281DJ
Audio Technica MTH50
Denon AH-D1000 (or AH-D1001)
Sennheiser HD25s
Any thoughts?
Yeah the m50s and the denons are not portable. They'll be the same size as your 280s (and both the m50s and 280s fold up but do not swivel flat), so why bother? I would take them off of the list.
Choose from the akg 181s or the hd25s. :)
Quote from: DavidW on November 27, 2010, 03:27:08 PM
Headphones (all of them) don't have real bass man. If you can't feel it, it ain't real.
I
can feel it, sort of. So.....it must be real. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/tongue.gif) (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/evil.gif)
Quote from: DavidW on November 28, 2010, 06:30:42 AM
Yeah the m50s and the denons are not portable. They'll be the same size as your 280s (and both the m50s and 280s fold up but do not swivel flat), so why bother? I would take them off of the list.
Choose from the akg 181s or the hd25s. :)
I don't care. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/smiley.gif) They stay on. What would kick them off is incompatibility with portables. If I can wear 280s on the bus I can live with anything so long as they work with the Pod and have the sound I'm looking for.
Quote from: drogulus on November 28, 2010, 07:33:32 AM
I don't care. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/smiley.gif) They stay on. What would kick them off is incompatibility with portables. If I can wear 280s on the bus I can live with anything so long as they work with the Pod and have the sound I'm looking for.
Well I was talking to Holden, he said the 280s were too bulky for work. But now that you mentioned it why not buy a portable amp? :)
I use the 280s at home but I also use them when I fly because the isolation is so good. In fact I'm flying overseas this Friday and the 280s are coming with me along both my Fiio E5 and my PA2V2 to make sure that they are powered up.
The above comments have made me rethink and maybe, bulky at work won't be that much of a problem (but time will tell on that one). With that in mind, I'd like a rethink. DavidW, I respect your opinion on phones so if you were to reinclude the Denons and the M50s, what would you choose out of the four?
Many thanks to all who have contributed so far.
Holden, I'd go with Denons but then you might as might well make it an upgrade, what Scarpia has the 2000s that is what I would buy. Heck maybe I should buy those instead, with headphones at home and at work I wouldn't need to take them anywhere. :)
I have the the Sennheiser HD280 and the Denon AH-D2000. I don't have the Denon AH-D1100.
The HD280 has very good isolation, which is why they feel like a vice on your head. The ear-pads need to make a decent seal on your head to get acoustical isolation. They are fairly light and don't seem to have a super-sturdy construction, but that might be a problem only if you have to pack them for traveling. The Denon AH-D2000 has a much different feel. They are closed back, but don't really isolate to any great extent, but are very comfortable on your head, I can wear them for a long time without feeling uncomfortable. Probably they produce less external noise to annoy your co-workers than an open-back headphone, but you will still hear through them. The sound in the Denon is much nicer than the HD280. The now discontinued AH-D1001 was an ear-pad headphone, but I believe the replacement AH-D1100 is a full sized headphone. I suspect it is similar to the AH-D2000, but if the budget permits I don't see any advantage of having the D1100 instead of the D2000.
Finding a place to audition them would be ideal, but www.headphone.com has a 30-day return policy.
Alright I found a shootout between the three Denons and a skanky Bose for good measure, and it looks like the D5000 and the D2000 sound very similar, while the D1100 are bass bloated instead of neutral like the better ones, but obviously still better than the crappy Bose.
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/519597/denon-d5000-vs-d2000-vs-d1100-vs-bose-on-ear-a-humble-review-enclosed (http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/519597/denon-d5000-vs-d2000-vs-d1100-vs-bose-on-ear-a-humble-review-enclosed)
Scarpia, that modest isolation would be perfect for me. I would like to not hear the pc fan and the hum of the lights but still hear people and the phone ring. :)
You know those m50s look great as well... did you make your decision Holden? It's hard isn't it? :D
Quote from: DavidW on November 30, 2010, 11:44:03 AM
You know those m50s look great as well... did you make your decision Holden? It's hard isn't it? :D
You are damn right it's hard, especially when new factors enter the equation. I am in Wellington NZ and have auditioned 3 sets of headphones (with a fourth today).
AKG D(5)81DJ pros
Grado SR60s
Sennheiser HD380
The AKG is infinitely inferior to the other two
The Grados sound very nice but are more suited to rock than classical. Also they are not closed back but more of that later
The HD380s were not even on my list as I didn't know they existed until I got over here. They sound very good indeed and have an excellent sound stage compared to the other two. Bass is tight but not thumping (I don't want that anyway), the treble is exceptionally detailed - I've never heard a headphone like it and the mids are quite warm. It is a very unSennheiser like sound.
The majority of the reviews for the 380s are very positive with one caveat which is that they are not so good for classical music, especially strings as they colour the sound somewhat. Now I've never heard this and it appears in only two reviews. An alternative that was suggested was the AKG271s. I am going to listen to them later today. The downside is that I can get the 380s on Ebay, brand new for about $165 (AUS) and the AKGs cost considerably more. has anyone heard them who can comment.
Now the playing field may also have changed. I can take my HD280s to work and use some open back phones at home?
So, any further suggestions while I make up my mind?
Any further on the M50s which I haven't been able to audition.
If you want open headphones that sound warm and detailed with spacious sound stage and correct sounding tonal signature for classical try:
Sennheiser 555, 595, 600 or 650. The 555 is an excellent entry level can, it doesn't quite as detailed as the other ones but the difference is subtle even with the 650. The 595 uses angled drivers and have the best sound stage out of all of 'em and sounds more forward than the 555s since the drivers sit closer to the ears, the new 650 is not as warm and dark as the old one and sounds like a refined version of the 600 (both of which provide superior detail compared to the series 5 cans). Both FR graphs make them look bassy but honestly open headphones don't do bass well, so they have to have bass emphasis to sound neutral (compared to closed headphones).
As for the two other classic contenders for classical: akg k701 and the beyer dt880. Have not heard either one of those, but I used to have the k501s and their bass anemic difficult to drive made them sound a little artificial, but their details in the mids remains unrivaled. btw the same goes for the open Audio Technicas too.
In a higher price range is Sennheiser's 800 which I have not heard because they are way, way outside my price range, but I think that is what Jens has so he can provide comments if you want I'm sure on Senns new flagship.
I don't own the m50s but I've listened to my friend's m50s multiple times. If I had to describe them with one word...it would be SMOOOOOTH. Aside from the bass, which is impactful and quite clean, the rest of the sound signature is very 'not-in-your-face'. Kind of a small soundstage imo too. They're really not that portable and as someone with a head on the larger side, not very comfortable either. Honestly, for sub $100, they're a great deal. But if you're willing to shell out more, I'd look somewhere else.
Quote from: DavidW on December 14, 2010, 05:26:05 PM
If you want open headphones that sound warm and detailed with spacious sound stage and correct sounding tonal signature for classical try:
Sennheiser 555, 595, 600 or 650. The 555 is an excellent entry level can, it doesn't quite as detailed as the other ones but the difference is subtle even with the 650. The 595 uses angled drivers and have the best sound stage out of all of 'em and sounds more forward than the 555s since the drivers sit closer to the ears, the new 650 is not as warm and dark as the old one and sounds like a refined version of the 600 (both of which provide superior detail compared to the series 5 cans). Both FR graphs make them look bassy but honestly open headphones don't do bass well, so they have to have bass emphasis to sound neutral (compared to closed headphones).
Had Sennheiser 600's, and they were defective (buzzing in left earpiece). Sent them back for warranty repair, but they were returned to me twice with the defect uncorrected. Finally tossed them into the trash and am now listening to Denons and Bayer Dynamics. I have always found the quality of build of Sennheiser products dubious and refuse to buy from them again.
Yes that was unfortunate that happened to you Scarpia. I don't think that happens to many, but I would understand you not wanting to bother with Sennheiser again. That was just like the hdmi board failing on my Denon receiver: it just turned me off of their receivers.
I forgot a good bargain buy for you to consider Holden: try these if you can: Audio Technica ad700, it is very bass anemic but does the mids very well, and has a wide soundstage. Don't wear these in public though, they're purple!
OK, I finally purchased some phones and they were not on any of the lists made by posters here or myself. On a hunch I decided to visit some of the musicians stores as musos need really good phones with as natural a sound as possible. On my final list were the following that were available at Billy Hyde music.
AKG K271s
Fostex T50 RPs
Sennheiser HD 380s (at a bargain $199)
Shure SRH840s
Research before I left for the store to audition suggested the following:
The AKGs are very neutral in sound but a number of people described them as a bit 'cold' Cost $459
Fostex have a great but proprietary (though natural) sound. Cost $249
The HD 380s have an excellent sound stage, a good bass compared to the 280s but don't work that well for classical music as they colour the sound of both strings and piano. Cost $199 - down from $299
The Shure's have a very natural sound, good sound stage and a decent (though not overly strong) bass. Cost $299.
Well the AKG's were not there but were probably out of my price range anyway.
The Fostex weren't there either.
This left the Senn's and the Shure's. The pundits were right about the 380s - they do colour strings and more importantly piano. Piano music makes up half my collection. Their reproduction of Level 42s Physical Presence was a different story - very impressive.
The Shure's gave a beautiful piano tone. On the first chord of Chopin's G minor ballade I could hear every note as a separate entity. The 380s didn't do this but they fell behind the Senn's on rock music with bass.
In the end I bought the Shure's and am listening to a piano trio (Archduke) as I write this. I can hear the position of every instrument so clearly and the piano has a warm but clear sound. The cello and violin sound beautiful.
I did listen to the Shure 440s but they were markedly inferior to the 840s.
All I need now is to let the Shure's burn in.
Thanks to everyone for their input.
Quote from: Holden on December 23, 2010, 08:00:16 PM
In the end I bought the Shure's and am listening to a piano trio (Archduke) as I write this. I can hear the position of every instrument so clearly and the piano has a warm but clear sound. The cello and violin sound beautiful.
I did listen to the Shure 440s but they were markedly inferior to the 840s.
All I need now is to let the Shure's burn in.
Thanks to everyone for their input.
Hope you enjoy them!