Now there is a Rigoletto I have been waiting for: Top singers, top actors, top director, top conductor and you can't better the location: Mantua, Italy!
BBC3 broadcast this RAI film simultaneously in 148 countries in 2010 and I got to watch it. All members of the elderly generation believing solidly in historically correct productions will be delighted, costumes and set all true to the composer's instructions, even to the extent of performing the opera over two evenings. The set is the real Palazzo Ducale di Mantova, real Renaissance staircases and hallways, frescoes painted by 15th and 16th century masters, and so on; design doesn't get more perfect than this.
Placido Domingo, visibly aging, is a perfect Rigoletto, father of virginal, innocent daugher, Julia Novikova, in love with the young man following her on her church visits. Vittorio Grigolo is perfect for the role of the Duke of Mantua. It's the first time I have seen this newcomer, previously only heard him, and all I could mutter: "Whew, what a hot tamale!" He is oozing sex out of every pore and acts uninhibited, no stiffness of the usual stiffness of a newcomer. His choir boy training has given him the solid foundation for a career on any opera stage. He is the perfect juvenile companion to the mature Jonas Kaufmann. We need both of them! I hope Grigolo sticks to the Italian and French repertoire, no German for him. Ruggerio Raimondi as Sparafucile, adds his great singing and acting to this perfect performance, perfect in my opinion of course.
Kaergaard, do you know when this was produced? Your description, especially the part about shooting at real palaces etc., and Domingo as Rigoletto makes me think of a part of this opera I saw on a French TV channel about three months ago. Now, I'm don't listen to opera but I found one those father-daughter arias to be very moving. Really wonderful! I'm not sure but I think the conductor was Mehta.
I think it's a wonderful production & agree with everything you said. I was told by the producer (see below) that it will be released on DVD soon. My recording off the TV is OK but I'm looking forward to the commercial production.
I was in Italy the week after it was filmed & decided to visit Manova (http://www.cittadimantova.it/it/doc-f-89-1.aspx) to see if I could find the locations. I went into the Palazzo Ducale & found the hall & the window which Duca sings through & Rigoletto walks through the shot opposite on this YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB5nkDaljMs&feature=related) from about 3.35 onwards.
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5695/img2096palazzoducale.th.jpg) (http://img232.imageshack.us/i/img2096palazzoducale.jpg/) (http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/8534/img2097palazzoducale.th.jpg) (http://img40.imageshack.us/i/img2097palazzoducale.jpg/)
By extraordinary chance I bumped into the producer Andrea Andermann. He gave me a poster & signed it. A magical day.
(http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/120/img2139poster.th.jpg) (http://img84.imageshack.us/i/img2139poster.jpg/)
Me with my wonderful souvenir
(http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9702/img2148poster.th.jpg) (http://img255.imageshack.us/i/img2148poster.jpg/)
Poster
Opus 106: yes, Mehta is the conductor and it is the performance you partially saw. Why not try a full length one now and then? ;D
Lucky Sospiro! And to get a signed poster from the producer! He is the same one who did Tosca in Rome a few years back; I haven't watched it because it's a Puccini! :-[
Thank you for the great YouTube site! :-*
Quote from: kaergaard on November 25, 2010, 01:46:40 PM
Opus 106: yes, Mehta is the conductor and it is the performance you partially saw. Why not try a full length one now and then? ;D
Lucky Sospiro! And to get a signed poster from the producer! He is the same one who did Tosca in Rome a few years back; I haven't watched it because it's a Puccini! :-[
Thank you for the great YouTube site! :-*
You're welcome
Andermann also produced this 'live' opera film from authentic locations in Paris
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31G798UE7iL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Quote from: kaergaard on November 25, 2010, 01:46:40 PM
Opus 106: yes, Mehta is the conductor and it is the performance you partially saw. Why not try a full length one now and then? ;D
Thanks for confirmation. As for trying full length, I plan to test the waters with Mozart first. If successful, I may wander further. :)
Domingo is a very fine high baritone, very solid vocally. He acts very well, too, so he makes a great Rigoletto. The rest of the cast is very good, too. I won't comment more as I haven't heard the whole thing yet.
It starts here, and apparently has 29 sections, some fairly short.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5yKs_ugAnE&feature=related
I saw some snatches of this, I think it was on a documentary programme. I have yet to be convinced that Domingo manages the baritone range appropriately. I reviewed his Simone Boccenegra and feel the transition is not altogether successful. But it sounds like it would be an enjoyable film.
Mike
Quote from: knight on November 27, 2010, 02:55:49 AM
I saw some snatches of this, I think it was on a documentary programme. I have yet to be convinced that Domingo manages the baritone range appropriately. I reviewed his Simone Boccenegra and feel the transition is not altogether successful. But it sounds like it would be an enjoyable film.
Mike
I wonder if you are a singer. What on earth is "the baritone range," for heaven's sake? Domingo can sing the notes for the part of Rigoletto, so as far as that part is concerned, he is a baritone. Granted, I don't think he is as great vocally as a baritone as he was as a tenor, but then the competition among baritones is pretty stiff--there are so many of us. He is very secure vocally as Rigoletto, to an extent I don't think non-singers can really appreciate. What more do you expect of a singer? A singer comes with certain vocal equipment. I don't expect Domingo to sound like John Charles Thomas, Tibbett, Bastianini, Merrill, Warren, Bruson, to take a number of baritones who sound quite different from each other. But I don't want to get into a 'Who did it best?' contest: it's an excellent production.
I can do the bass solos in Messiah: does that make me a bass? I also have a secure high G and will do O Holy Night/Minuit Chretiens in the key of C on Christmas Eve and perhaps other times during the season. I can do lots of baritone things. I class myself as a lowish baritone, but I can do a lot of bass parts.
"Cortigiani, vil razza dannata" must be one of the more difficult parts for a high baritone to carry off, but I think Domingo did a fine job, and his characterization is excellent:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvywx1WlRFY
Of course, Rigoletto's attitude was "It's OK as long as it's someone else's daughter."
The Russian singer, Julia Novikova, is excellent as Gilda, and negotiates the coloratura passages with seeming ease. Her acting is also excellent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE9cousqsw0
The young (mid-30s) Italian tenor, Vittorio Grigolo, is a real lyric tenor and his characterization certainly fits the part. His philosophy that 'women are fickle' is mostly projection, of course (who is he to call anyone fickle?!), but Gilda loves him anyway. Listen to his vocal ease when Rigoletto hears him do "La donna e mobile" after he thinks the Duke is dead, just before he discover it is Gilda's body in the sack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gTeA7M_-MU&feature=related
I highly recommend watching and listening to this performance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsM9qr1a3mE
I had the good fortune to see Boccanegra at ROH in July & Domingo was fantastic. I recorded it off the TV but am looking forward to the commercial production. Just had notification my DVD is on its way. :D
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/417ybJ7PUML._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
My problem relates to the range as written by Verdi. When he writes and E and F or a G in the upper range of the baritone voice, he intends it to sound clarion and for the baritone to reach to it, reach for it and stitched into that is in part the expression within that area of the baritone voice. The arc of the melody is often placed to exploit this quality.
Domingo's natural tessitura is higher, so there is no exciting effort involved in his singing these notes and in Boccegnera I found that area of his voice to be a but muddy. If it sounds too easy, it loses the intended expression.
There are compensations of course, as he has such an accumulation of stagecraft and he is such a musician. I thought the scenes with his daughter were splendid; but the great solo entries in the council scene missed the edge and excitement that the real Verdi Baritone can achieve.
I can sing bass or baritone notes, but I am a baritone and just reaching the bass notes is not enough as a substitute for a genuine bass voice with the right weight in the low range, colour and timbre. Also the projection of those notes is relatively weaker than with a proper bass voice.
I would nevertheless like to see the Rigoletto, no doubt I will at some point.
Mike
Quote from: knight on November 27, 2010, 02:29:54 PM
Domingo's natural tessitura is higher, so there is no exciting effort involved in his singing these notes and in Boccegnera I found that area of his voice to be a but muddy. If it sounds too easy, it loses the intended expression.
Mike
Didn't Domingo start off his career as a baritone?
Kishnevi
(who is very surely a baritone able to rumble out a few bass notes)
He has certainly experimented as one at the least. There are two discs of arias sitting in vaults from almost 30 years ago which are baritone repertoire. The Boccenegra I thought was a good experiment, but not really a total success and we are blessed with lots of good baritones. But I am not trying to tell people they are wrong to enjoy him, I am giving my opinion on what I heard.
Mike
Quote from: knight on November 27, 2010, 10:56:44 PM... and we are blessed with lots of good baritones. But I am not trying to tell people they are wrong to enjoy him, I am giving my opinion on what I heard.
Mike
As Domingo is nearing the end of his career, I want to treasure every performance. But his Rigoletto didn't leave me emotionally drained like Hvorostovsky's did.
I really do understand that attitude.....he is a sort of international treasure. No one like him and there never will be.
I did not know Hvorostovsky has sung the part....is it available anywhere? I love his voice, but sometimes find him a bit disengaged....so your comment interests me.
Mike
Quote from: knight on November 27, 2010, 11:57:30 PM... I did not know Hvorostovsky has sung the part....is it available anywhere? I love his voice, but sometimes find him a bit disengaged....so your comment interests me.
Mike
I saw Rigoletto at ROH on 2nd November 2010. It is this production
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41GA2F6ZECL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
but with:
Dan Ettinger (conductor)
Sparafucile - Raymond Aceta
Maddalena - Daniela Innamorati
Gilda - Patrizia Ciofi
Duca - Wookyung Kim
Rigoletto - Dmitri Hvorostovsky
I had heard some negative comments about the size of DH's voice but he was stunning. It was the last evening of his 'run' and he absolutely gave his all. I managed to keep it together until his scream of
Non morire, o ch'io teco morrò! Oh, mia figlia! Oh, mia Gilda! & me & several others beside me were in tears.
review (http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/classical/reviews/verdi-rigoletto-royal-opera-house-2104509.html)
Unfortunately it's unlikely they will release another DVD but with this cast.
Thanks for that. I have seen that production, but with Mackerras conducting. Lucky you....it is good at times that some of the best is not preserved like a comodity. A great memory to cherish.
Mike
Quote from: knight on November 28, 2010, 01:38:19 AM
Thanks for that. I have seen that production, but with Mackerras conducting. Lucky you....it is good at times that some of the best is not preserved like a commodity. A great memory to cherish.
Mike
Indeed.
I wanted to congratulate DH & waited at the Stage Door til after midnight but he didn't appear. Maybe it was for the best as if he'd been grumpy or off-hand I would have been upset!
(http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/4006/img0104autographs.th.jpg) (http://img337.imageshack.us/i/img0104autographs.jpg/)
I missed Raymond Aceto but I 'got' the rest. :D
Well done with that. I used to have various signatures on programmes, but they got 'lost' in one of our house moves.
Don't know what DH is like at all, I guess it is dangerous to hope for consideration. Best to keep illusions intact in such circs I guess.
Mike
Quote from: knight on November 27, 2010, 02:29:54 PM
My problem relates to the range as written by Verdi. When he writes and E and F or a G in the upper range of the baritone voice, he intends it to sound clarion and for the baritone to reach to it, reach for it and stitched into that is in part the expression within that area of the baritone voice. The arc of the melody is often placed to exploit this quality.
Domingo's natural tessitura is higher, so there is no exciting effort involved in his singing these notes and in Boccegnera I found that area of his voice to be a but muddy. If it sounds too easy, it loses the intended expression.
There are compensations of course, as he has such an accumulation of stagecraft and he is such a musician. I thought the scenes with his daughter were splendid; but the great solo entries in the council scene missed the edge and excitement that the real Verdi Baritone can achieve.
I can sing bass or baritone notes, but I am a baritone and just reaching the bass notes is not enough as a substitute for a genuine bass voice with the right weight in the low range, colour and timbre. Also the projection of those notes is relatively weaker than with a proper bass voice.
I would nevertheless like to see the Rigoletto, no doubt I will at some point.
Mike
I can't make you like Domingo's performance or Rigoletto and I have no wish to.
The baritones who have been great for Verdi roles seem to me to me to have easy and free high notes. Wikipedia offers the following description of the Verdi baritone:
"* Common Range: From the G below low C to the A♭ above middle C (G2 to A♭4).
* Description: A more specialized voice category and a subset of the Dramatic Baritone, a Verdi baritone refers to a voice capable of singing consistently and with ease in the highest part of the baritone range, sometimes extending up to the C above middle C, or "High C." The Verdi baritone will generally have a lot of squillo, or "ping"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baritone
Don't try to tell me that Leonard Warren, Renato Bruson, or Robert Merrill had to "reach for" those high notes. However, if a "Verdi baritone" has to " reach
for" a lot of notes, I would suggest his career is likely to be short. If a well-trained singer has to " reach
for" a lot of notes in a part, I would suggest he not sing it and find roles more suitable for his voice.
But of course, many of the baritones who do excel in Verdi roles sound quite, quite different from each other. There simply is no one baritone sound, not even for Verdi baritones.
I stand by my opinions also on what sound 'easy' or 'difficult'. No one is supposed to sound easy in that Boccegnera scene, not in specific areras of Rigoletto. That is very distinct from sounding strained.
Saying the famous ones all sound different does not do away with the issue of whether a singer is singing in the right range for them to express what the composer has put into the music.
BTW, I was not alone seemingly in my feelings on Domingo, his baritone performances seem to have had a mixed reception, including different opinions on the same performances...and it is ever thus.
Mike
Quote from: knight on December 01, 2010, 08:41:45 AM
I stand by my opinions also on what sound 'easy' or 'difficult'. No one is supposed to sound easy in that Boccegnera scene, not in specific areras of Rigoletto. That is very distinct from sounding strained.
Saying the famous ones all sound different does not do away with the issue of whether a singer is singing in the right range for them to express what the composer has put into the music.
BTW, I was not alone seemingly in my feelings on Domingo, his baritone performances seem to have had a mixed reception, including different opinions on the same performances...and it is ever thus.
Mike
"I stand by my opinions also on what sound 'easy' or 'difficult'.
What sounds easy or difficult to you is of interest to you, but that is your subjective reaction and it has nothing to do with whether a singer has to "reach for" notes.
I haven't heard Domingo's recording of Boccanegra. I am disposed to give some weight to the opinions of those who have heard him do it live.
Verdi baritones often have quite different voices, not to mention personalities (the examples in the Wikipedia article will do!). They have to do the part differently. Domingo is a tenor whose range covers the part of Rigoletto. He has to do it within the parameters of his voice, just as do other singers. He has to do it his own way, and does it very well.
If you look at some of the comments about the tenor, Vittoria Grigolo, you can see that some think he isn't a real Verdi tenor--too light a voice, etc. Those who have heard him live seem to have had no difficulty hearing him.
I caught part of this production when it was broadcast on TV over Christmas. I saw from the scene where the kidnappers arrive at the palace and tell the Duke what they have been up to.
I enjoyed it as a performance and Mehta is obviously the man when you want to do this kind of live in situ performance with the orchestra piped in from elsewhere. The first time I saw it was during the Tosca with Domingo that was filmed in the specified places within Rome at the specified times of day. That was a terrific success.
I thought that in this Rigoletto Domingo acted marvelously and movingly. Verdi writes so many wonderful scenes between fathers and daughters. As in Boccenegra, that situation brought out his best. I did not much like the sound mix which put the voices in front of the orchestral sound. So, it vitiated any idea of the actual balance.
The Guilda was terrific, though of course I missed her most difficult music. The mezzo in the last act had a wonderfully exciting voice. I thought the tenor oversang and pushed phrases where charm would perhaps have brought more pleasant dividends.
Domingo did have occasional trouble in the lower half of the range. Two specific instances: when he discloses to the nobles the identity of their victim; he was pushing like mad and not much was coming out. When later in the scene with his daughter he swears vengeance, he seemed to be having problems again moving through that range at speed and projecting. The balance ensured that he was heard. I wonder what would have been heard in a theatre setup?
But really, it was terrifically good in many ways. Quite possibly the problems I heard were really highlighted because of our earlier discussion and I may well not have clocked them so clearly had I not been looking for them.
Mike
Quote from: knight on January 02, 2011, 07:00:23 AM
I caught part of this production when it was broadcast on TV over Christmas. I saw from the scene where the kidnappers arrive at the palace and tell the Duke what they have been up to.
I enjoyed it as a performance and Mehta is obviously the man when you want to do this kind of live in situ performance with the orchestra piped in from elsewhere. The first time I saw it was during the Tosca with Domingo that was filmed in the specified places within Rome at the specified times of day. That was a terrific success.
I thought that in this Rigoletto Domingo acted marvelously and movingly. Verdi writes so many wonderful scenes between fathers and daughters. As in Boccenegra, that situation brought out his best. I did not much like the sound mix which put the voices in front of the orchestral sound. So, it vitiated any idea of the actual balance.
The Guilda was terrific, though of course I missed her most difficult music. The mezzo in the last act had a wonderfully exciting voice. I thought the tenor oversang and pushed phrases where charm would perhaps have brought more pleasant dividends.
Domingo did have occasional trouble in the lower half of the range. Two specific instances: when he discloses to the nobles the identity of their victim; he was pushing like mad and not much was coming out. When later in the scene with his daughter he swears vengeance, he seemed to be having problems again moving through that range at speed and projecting. The balance ensured that he was heard. I wonder what would have been heard in a theatre setup?
But really, it was terrifically good in many ways. Quite possibly the problems I heard were really highlighted because of our earlier discussion and I may well not have clocked them so clearly had I not been looking for them.
Mike
I presume when you say the tenor, Vittorio Grigolo, "oversang and pushed phrases where charm would perhaps have brought more pleasant dividends," you are talking about interpretation rather than some vocal pushing or straining. OK, so you prefer something different.
Julia Novikova was wonderful as Gilda. Vocally, she's not as capable as Roberta Peters was in my old RCA recording with Merrill and Bjoerling, for example, but she's very good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE9cousqsw0&feature=more_related
Nina Surguladze was good as Maddalena, too.
When you talk of Domingo having "occasional trouble in the lower half of the range," I have to wonder. "he was pushing like mad and not much was coming out." I don't hear any vocal trouble. He's a very fine singer, with a very well trained voice, and he knows how to do all sorts of things with it without straining or hurting his voice. He knows what he can do with it and doesn't try to do what he cannot do with it--which really wouldn't do any good, anyway. I should point out, too, that the passage where he tells the courtiers that it's his daughter is rather lightly scored, so there's no reason why he wouldn't be heard in an opera house.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvywx1WlRFY&NR=1
I am not able to identify the other passage you mention. I presume it's something in this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnrwAJVO09A&feature=fvw
I don't really hear any vocal improprieties there. I think you really simply think he was somewhat miscast. I have no problem with that.
I think you have a different conception of Rigoletto than Domingo has. Rigoletto is not a heroic figure, but a weak one. What Domingo did was dramatically appropriate for his conception, and a good conductor (or director, since this is a movie) will ensure that the singers can be heard.
One might think Gilda is too lenient on the Duke in wanting to forgive him, but still, given the power differences, it makes sense to let him go his own way. But Rigoletto rashly, and in a cowardly way, seeks out the assassin, and it backfires on him.