GMG Classical Music Forum

Just reading, whilst looking at a Novelty Gaming Site, that in 11 days time the NEW Seven Wonders of the World will be announced. 

What would your New Seven be?

Apparantly you/we can vote at this site  New Seven (http://www.new7wonders.com/index.php) and the list of the new SEVEN will be out for History.

Watch this space.

Shame, I thought Harry's JPC Buys may have made the official top 20.

By the way, the Great Wall is the HUGE favourite to win the event with 6 others making up the Seven.  The Wall is currently priced at 1/33 Fav, £33 to win £1....now there's a sure thing

;D

Thanks for bringing this to our attention Tony....very cool.

Quote from: MahlerTitan on June 24, 2007, 03:43:53 PM
What about the Terracotta warriors?
What about the tomb of first emperor of China?
I can't believe that you put the stupid statues of liberty and Eiffel tower in there

Um, I don't think this is Tony's personal list, MT. I believe this is the ACTUAL list of 'wonders' that's being voted on. Is that right, Tony?

Quote from: Mark on June 24, 2007, 03:48:28 PM
Um, I don't think this is Tony's personal list, MT. I believe this is the ACTUAL list of 'wonders' that's being voted on. Is that right, Tony?

Agree w/ Mark that this list is not Tony's selections; but I must admit that most of these choices are rather ancient for consideration as 'New Wonders' - I'm sure that many can come up w/ their own personal favorites; e.g. Blueridge Parkway (476 miles from Virginina into North Carolina - took decades to complete w/ the Linn Cove Viaduct around Grandfather Mountain the last segment finished - CLICK on image for more detailed information) and some of the great bridges (e.g. Brooklyn Bridge - a stupendous effort & subject of a great Ken Burns video; Chesapeake Bay Bridge; Golden Gate Bridge; bridges around Tampa Bay)!  I'm certain that others have their own choices in other countries (e.g. the English Channel Tunnel) - I guess the bottom line is whether this 'new' list already needs revisions?  :D

(http://www.blueridgeparkway.org/images/LinnCoveViaduct440.jpg) (http://www.blueridgeparkway.org/linncove.htm)

My vote goes to the Colossus of Rhodes.  8)

the old GMG "What Are you listening to? Part 5" thread  8)

PSHAW!

In no order of preference, Andy's "REAL Wonders":

1) Beethoven op. 59
2) Beethoven op.132
3) Beethoven Missa Solemnis
4) Mozart Don Giovanni
5) Mozart Die Zauberflote
6) Mozart "Jupiter"
7) Wagner "Ring Des Nibelungen"
8) Mahler's 9th
9)Mahler's 6th
10) Haydn op. 76

I wonder why the Vatican City, or the bit where the Pope lives, St Peter's etc isn't on the list.

Pretty impressive stuff is the Vatican, no?

Quote from: AnthonyAthletic on June 25, 2007, 07:19:45 AM
I wonder why the Vatican City, or the bit where the Pope lives, St Peter's etc isn't on the list.

Pretty impressive stuff is the Vatican, no?

From reading, there seemed to be a longer original list and the 21 seems to have been what made the final cut.  I have a friend that teachers a unit of study on the Acient Wonders and have sat in on some of his lessons....fascinating stufff....my son is trying to decide on his seven choices as well.  The list is what it is so we are just going to have fun with it, debate it, and have more fun with it.  :)

Footnotes:

- this is indeed the 'final cut' of the Wonders List.
- the gizeh Pyramids are out of the running because they're the only Wonder form the Ancient times to be still intact and therefore it will automatically be included in the new Seven Wonders list. Therefore, this poll should be restricted to six choices, not seven.
- the "Kremlin and Red Square" choice is known mainly for the St-Basil Cathedral. Otherwise, who would vote for a place that in most minds is associated with communist leaders fortress and army parades??

Although it contains priceless treasures, I don't think it beats Beijing's Forbidden City. Anyhow, this is what it looks like from the distance:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/62/KREML.jpg/800px-KREML.jpg)

And this is St-Basil Cathedral on the Red Square:


(http://thumb5.shutterstock.com/photos/display_pic_with_logo/1140/1140,1170709349,1.jpg)

At the top left corner it's seen in this pic from the Red Square:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/14/Paradered.jpg)

For me the biggest wonder of the world is how George Bush got elected twice!

Sydney Opera house?

rofl...you gotta be kiddin'

Quote from: hornteacher on June 25, 2007, 02:31:25 PM
For me the biggest wonder of the world is how George Bush got elected twice!

By the people of the supposedly "greatest country in the world", too!

Quote from: Bonehelm on June 25, 2007, 02:38:44 PM
By the people of the supposedly "greatest country in the world", too!

hey, the people voted for Gore, if you want to blame somebody, blame the electoral college, they make the decisions.

Quote from: MahlerTitan on June 25, 2007, 04:00:52 PM
hey, the people voted for Gore, if you want to blame somebody, blame the electoral college, they make the decisions.

Actually I blame all of America. Well, maybe except for the anti-war pile.

Quote from: Bonehelm on June 25, 2007, 02:37:32 PM
Sydney Opera house?

rofl...you gotta be kiddin'

Not at all. It's a brilliant piece of architecture, situated brilliantly in the Sydney harbor.

Quote from: Larry Rinkel on June 25, 2007, 06:50:20 PM
Not at all. It's a brilliant piece of architecture, situated brilliantly in the Sydney harbor.

Then what's Musikverein? What's Concertgebouw? The glass pyramid outside the Louvre? You're saying those suck? If they don't, why aren't they there?

Quote from: Bonehelm on June 25, 2007, 07:03:31 PM
Then what's Musikverein? What's Concertgebouw? The glass pyramid outside the Louvre? You're saying those suck? If they don't, why aren't they there?

It goes without saying that they aren't "iconic" enough for such a list. If it wasn't for the Da Vinci Code (in which I believe it featured), I doubt many people would know about that pyramid. Unless you're seriously considering the list be extended to cover the thousands of constructs and buildings which professionals consider masterpieces...

Quote from: Lethe on June 25, 2007, 08:35:37 PM
It goes without saying that they aren't "iconic" enough for such a list. If it wasn't for the Da Vinci Code (in which I believe it featured), I doubt many people would know about that pyramid. Unless you're seriously considering the list be extended to cover the thousands of constructs and buildings which professionals consider masterpieces...

WOW, YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME MAN.

The most ridiculous post I've read all week.

The Louvre Pyramid is a large metal and glass pyramid which serves as the main entrance to the Musée du Louvre and has become a landmark for the city of Paris.

Commissioned by the French president François Mitterrand, it was built in 1989 by the architect I. M. Pei from New York, who was responsible for the design of the Miho Museum in Japan among others. The structure, which was constructed entirely with glass segments, reaches a height of 20.6 meters (about 70 feet); its square base has sides of 35 meters (115 feet). It consists of 603 rhombus-shaped and 70 triangular glass segments.

It has been claimed by some that the glass panes in the Louvre Pyramid number exactly 666, "the number of the beast", often associated with Satan. Various conspiracy theorists have ascribed some deeper, sinister meaning to this supposed fact. For instance, Dominique Stezepfandt's book François Mitterrand, Grand Architecte de l'Univers declares that "the pyramid is dedicated to a power described as the Beast in the Book of Revelation (...) The entire structure is based on the number 6."

The construction of the pyramid triggered considerable controversy because many people feel that this futuristic edifice looks quite out of place in front of the Louvre Museum with its classical architecture. Certain detractors ascribed a "Pharaonic complex" to Mitterrand. Others came to appreciate the juxtaposing of contrasting architectural styles as a successful merger of the old and the new, the classical and the ultra-modern.

The main pyramid is actually only the largest of several glass pyramids that were constructed near the museum, including the downward-pointing La Pyramide Inversée that functions as a skylight in an underground mall in front of the museum.

During the design phase, there was a proposal that the design include a spire on the pyramid to simplify window washing. This proposal was eliminated because of objections from I. M. Pei.

One of France's landmark, aside from the obvious Eiffel, is this. It's as famous as NYC's Liberty statue.

Quote from: Bonehelm on June 25, 2007, 08:40:00 PM
The most ridiculous post I've read all week.

Great. I aim to please.

Quote from: Bonehelm on June 25, 2007, 08:40:00 PM
One of France's landmark, aside from the obvious Eiffel, is this.

Nice, so let's make that 3 from France. Now Italy, Germany and Great Britain will inevitably have problems with this and demand to have three as well, citing lots more wonderful thingies situated in their lands. Already we have 12, factor in the rest of Europe and this number will be multiplied, then the rest of the world. How many exactly do you want on this list? "The One-Hundred and One Wonders of the World" doesn't have the same ring to it as the old seven, and it divorces the list completely from that... Also, the more you accept, the more ridiculous it becomes to draw a line between what is a "wonder" and what is not.

Quote from: Bonehelm on June 25, 2007, 08:40:00 PM
It's as famous as NYC's Liberty statue.

It's really, really not. These things cannot be proven, but shove some photographs in the faces of some random people in the street all around Europe, and I am certain they will name the statue far more often. That is what makes it iconic rather than just excellent*. That is also what makes these lists silly.

*Iconic, btw, has nothing to do with objective worth credited by professionals. It is a nebulous term that is given to anything that has reached a culturally pervasive level of popularity and familiarity. It's why in the modern age, the most famous landmarks are the Eiffel Tower, the Statue of Liberty, the Sydney Opera House and so on, they're recognisable and unique. This is also why the notion of putting the Musikverein on this list borders on unreasonable, as a lot of other exquisite buildings which (to the casual observer) look extremely similar on the outside (and the fact that the Sydney Opera House has such clout as a recognisable monument means that people don't care about interiors, as the SOH's interior is bland as hell and wasn't designed by the same architect as the exterior). Any serious fan of architecture would not call for any list to be made, no matter how long.

These lists shouldn't be taken seriously.

Edit:

Statue of Liberty Google results (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=statue+of+liberty&btnG=Google+Search) in English only. Louvre Pyramid results in English (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=louvre+pyramid&btnG=Google+Search) & French (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=louvre+pyramide&btnG=Google+Search). Combined, the pyramid achieves a half vote. I do not consider this conclusive at all, as I said, it cannot be proven. But it's a fine shield if you wish to continue to make your strange claim.

Quote from: Bonehelm on June 25, 2007, 08:40:00 PM
The Louvre Pyramid is a large etc. etc...

Sure it's impressive, but is it a WONDER?

In all fairness, I don't think the Sydney Opera House should count, either. It's too... utilitarian. A wonder implies, to me, a sort of impracticality.

No the Louvre Pyramid shouldn't be counted as a wonder. Nor should 80% of the stuff on that list. Great Wall, sure, mysterious stones in Britain, sure, Angor blah blah, sure.

But Sydney Opera House? I mean, come on...

Quote from: Lethe on June 25, 2007, 09:04:21 PM
Great. I aim to please.

Nice, so let's make that 3 from France. Now Italy, Germany and Great Britain will inevitably have problems with this and demand to have three as well, citing lots more wonderful thingies situated in their lands. Already we have 12, factor in the rest of Europe and this number will be multiplied, then the rest of the world. How many exactly do you want on this list? "The One-Hundred and One Wonders of the World" doesn't have the same ring to it as the old seven, and it divorces the list completely from that... Also, the more you accept, the more ridiculous it becomes to draw a line between what is a "wonder" and what is not.

It's really, really not. These things cannot be proven, but shove some photographs in the faces of some random people in the street all around Europe, and I am certain they will name the statue far more often. That is what makes it iconic rather than just excellent*. That is also what makes these lists silly.

*Iconic, btw, has nothing to do with objective worth credited by professionals. It is a nebulous term that is given to anything that has reached a culturally pervasive level of popularity and familiarity. It's why in the modern age, the most famous landmarks are the Eiffel Tower, the Statue of Liberty, the Sydney Opera House and so on, they're recognisable and unique. This is also why the notion of putting the Musikverein on this list borders on unreasonable, as a lot of other exquisite buildings which (to the casual observer) look extremely similar on the outside (and the fact that the Sydney Opera House has such clout as a recognisable monument means that people don't care about interiors, as the SOH's interior is bland as hell and wasn't designed by the same architect as the exterior). Any serious fan of architecture would not call for any list to be made, no matter how long.

These lists shouldn't be taken seriously.

I'm sorry, but if people don't even know the Louvre pyramid, then it's their fault for being IGNORANT. That doesn't make the pyramid non-famous. And you can ask around, and see how many people don't know what the Louvre pyramid is. I'm sure at least 80% of the people would say they've heard of it.

Btw Bonehelm - I edited my large post to include some Google results if it interests you. I did not claim it was not famous, I claimed it wasn't famous enough. I also made sure to distinguish a "great wonders" list from a list of buildings of real worth. A "top X list" relies on zeitgeists.

Quote from: Bonehelm on June 25, 2007, 09:11:32 PM
But Sydney Opera House? I mean, come on...

IMO it has become an icon for the entire hemisphere it's in. Of a forward-looking and aspirational group of people. I don't care if that sounds cheesy, many popular things are. :P

Yes you did claim that it is not famous. You said it isn't famous, if it wasn't for the Da Vinci Code, not many people would have heard of it.
"If it wasn't for the Da Vinci Code (in which I believe it featured), I doubt many people would know about that pyramid" those are your exact words.

I wholeheartedly disagree with the statement. The Sydney opera house on the other hand, is also a very famous landmark of Australia. But is it New Seven Wonders Of the World worthy? Nope.

Once again, I do not think the Louvre Pyramid is a "wonder" either.

Quote from: Bonehelm on June 25, 2007, 09:19:02 PM
Yes you did claim that it is not famous. You said it isn't famous, if it wasn't for the Da Vinci Code, not many people would have heard of it.
"If it wasn't for the Da Vinci Code (in which I believe it featured), I doubt many people would know about that pyramid" those are your exact words.

I phrased it poorly/didn't go into enough detail. Generally many people will not recognise many supposedly famous things unless they are so hugely exposed to them that they are impossible not to know - stuff like the Statue of Liberty, Big Ben, Eiffel Tower, Sydney Opera House, etc. The amount of these things are very small, and among people who are actually interested in the subject (rather than just passively encounter these things in TV adverts, etc), there are the things which I would call famous, but not iconic on a popular level - this is how I distinguish the two. Sort of like how Beethoven's symphony nos.5 and 7 could both be considered very famous, but no.5 is the only one that almost everyone will be able to hum.

My opinion of a very great building is different to the criteria for these lists (populism/popular acceptance), and as I treat the two differently, I am fine with the Sydney Opera House or Eiffel Tower appearing on them, despite them not being my favourite buildings/constructs.

Quote from: Lethe on June 25, 2007, 09:31:31 PM
I phrased it poorly/didn't go into enough detail. Generally many people will not recognise many supposedly famous things unless they are so hugely exposed to them that they are impossible not to know - stuff like the Statue of Liberty, Big Ben, Eiffel Tower, Sydney Opera House, etc. The amount of these things are very small, and among people who are actually interested in the subject (rather than just passively encounter these things in TV adverts, etc), there are the things which I would call famous, but not iconic on a popular level - this is how I distinguish the two. Sort of like how Beethoven's symphony nos.5 and 7 could both be considered very famous, but no.5 is the only one that almost everyone will be able to hum.

My opinion of a very great building is different to the criteria for these lists (populism/popular acceptance), and as I treat the two differently, I am fine with the Sydney Opera House or Eiffel Tower appearing on them, despite them not being my favourite buildings/constructs.

Fair enough, Lethe.  :)

Btw, poor Timbuktu is the only one which didn't get a vote :(

We need more people to vote...we have way more than 20 members on GMG..

Quote from: Kullervo on June 25, 2007, 09:09:35 PM
Sure it's impressive, but is it a WONDER?

In all fairness, I don't think the Sydney Opera House should count, either. It's too... utilitarian. A wonder implies, to me, a sort of impracticality.

Why? That would preclude most architectural marvels. Why not, simply consider it's aesthetic value independent of its practicality?

The old Wonders were structures of function, even if that was as a burial chamber. Sadly there is so little left of the earlier Wonders. Earthquakes, war and deprivations seem to have done for most of them.

The mausoleum in Halicarnassus, though damaged by an earthquake was in good condition until the crusaders happened by. They plundered the structure for stones to build Bodrum castle in 1402 and other buildings. All that is now left in situ is a corner of the foundations in a muddy pit. Some of the beautiful bas relief sculptures have been incorporated in various buildings, drawings exist showing them in 1792, since when even those have disappeared.

We are fortunate we still have what remains of the Acropolis to give us that option. It was in good condition until the 19th cent, however the main temple was used as an arsenal in the wars with the Ottomans and it blew up. The greater danger however was when the Greeks instituted a royal family. There were serious plans in the middle of the 19th cent to build an enormous royal palace on the High Place and this would have involved partly clearing the site. The only thing that saved the ruins was a lack of money to enable the scheme to come to fruition.

I voted, though a number of mine do not get near the top of the list. I am planning a trip to Petra for next April.

Mike

Quote from: Bonehelm on June 25, 2007, 09:11:32 PM
mysterious stones in Britain, sure

And what's unique about them? I mean, even in Britain there are similar sites. And others in many places around Europe (perhaps in other places around the globe too?). And well, frankly, I don't really see what people are getting excited about. It's just a bunch of big rocks lying around... ::)

Actually I agree and when you get to them they don't seem very large. The remarkable things about them.

1) They are large in relation to the primitive tools and lack of the wheel.

2) They were brought a great distance to the site.

3) They are aligned with certain celestial events and movements.

But one of the wonders of the world....no...not in my opinion.

Mike

Keeping its status, the Great Pyramid.

The New Seven were elected Saturday evening.  I got 4 right in the poll.

Here's the verdict from over 100 million votes which hardly represents the World, but here goes.

The Pyramid at Chichen Itza (before 800 A D ) Yucatan Peninsula, Mexico
Christ the Redeemer (1931) Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
The Great Wall of China (220 B C and 1368-1644 A D ) China
Machu Picchu (1460-1470), Peru
Petra (9 B C -40 A D ), Jordan
The Roman Colosseum (70-82 A D ) Rome, Italy
The Taj Mahal (1630 A D ) Agra, India

We will do it all again, in 4207, any takers?

Quote from: AnthonyAthletic on July 07, 2007, 05:51:34 PM
We will do it all again, in 4207, any takers?

I can assure you that I will be there.

Quote from: Kullervo on July 07, 2007, 06:31:24 PM
I can assure you that I will be there.

Be sure to vote for the historical remaining site of North Korea after it has been nuked 23498 times over by the U.S. at that time, as well as the other 95% of the world as explosion sites for biological weapons.  :)

I am a bit disappointed buy the choice, but that's life. I will as you say, just have to wait it out for the next poll.

Mike

Quote from: AnthonyAthletic on July 07, 2007, 05:51:34 PM
Keeping its status, the Great Pyramid.

The New Seven were elected Saturday evening.  I got 4 right in the poll.

Here's the verdict from over 100 million votes which hardly represents the World, but here goes.

The Pyramid at Chichen Itza (before 800 A D ) Yucatan Peninsula, Mexico
Christ the Redeemer (1931) Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
The Great Wall of China (220 B C and 1368-1644 A D ) China
Machu Picchu (1460-1470), Peru
Petra (9 B C -40 A D ), Jordan
The Roman Colosseum (70-82 A D ) Rome, Italy
The Taj Mahal (1630 A D ) Agra, India

We will do it all again, in 4207, any takers?

Wow, that horrible Jesus kitsch thing in Rio is one of the "New Seven Wonders"?

Speaking of kitsch, I wonder which idiots here voted for Neuschwanstein. That's a pretty sad choice, considering it's not even a real castle, but a mentally ill king's proto-Disneyan romantic kitsch extravaganza.

OK, the Taj Mahal is a pretty kitschy extravaganza, too, I guess. But definitely an architectural achievement. I watched a documentary about architectural marvels of India or something like that a few weeks ago, and there were some palaces or religious buildings of some sort which were built very high and ornated with *thousands* of statues, and these looked far more impressive than the Taj Mahal. At least on TV. I don't recall exactly where and what those were, though.   


Of the above, I have seen the Colosseum and Chichen Itza. Both are fairly impressive, and Chichen Itza is a very interesting and very big archaeological site spread out over a very large area. There are a number of smaller pyramids, a sacrificial site  :o, the "ball game" stadium, some living quarters, apparently palaces of some sort, and the famous "observatorium". All in all, an indeed rather impressive site, but I doubt there aren't many, many, many others that are equally impressive all over the world. I think there are even similar sites in Mexico alone. And the "big" pyramid isn't even that "big" at all.
In fact, it's rather small, really. But I still enjoyed the day there a lot.
But man, was it hot and humid! I have no problems with heat, but it was really humid, too, you could almost drink the air.
Here is a picture of me staring into the sun and sweating in front of the "observatorium":

Quote from: M forever on July 08, 2007, 02:10:58 AM
And the "big" pyramid isn't even that "big" at all.

If memory serves, the pyramid at Teotihuacan is much larger.

(http://www.csee.umbc.edu/~yxie1/Travel/Mexico/teotihuacan.jpg)

No kidding. It's hard to tell exactly from pictures, but if I compare this to the highly artistic picture I took myself of the pyramid at Chichen Itza, it looks like it's about 10 times bigger.

Did you take that picture yourself?

Quote from: M forever on July 08, 2007, 06:13:25 AM
Did you take that picture yourself?

No, I've never left the States.  :'(

Why not? Are you afraid that people will be mean to you in other countries? Don't believe everything they say on TV. But do be careful when you go to Mexico. They will be mean to you, or at least try to rid you of your money. At least when they figure out that you are American.

Quote from: M forever on July 08, 2007, 07:28:51 AM
Why not? Are you afraid that people will be mean to you in other countries? Don't believe everything they say on TV. But do be careful when you go to Mexico. They will be mean to you, or at least try to rid you of your money. At least when they figure out that you are American.

:D

No, it's just a lack of opportunity. I haven't the money to make any kind of luxury trip.

FEDERER

Quote from: mahlertitan on June 25, 2007, 04:00:52 PM
hey, the people voted for Gore, if you want to blame somebody, blame the electoral college, they make the decisions.

Did the electoral college mess up the second time either? I thought it was only in 2000. Anyway, it is ridiculous how they made all this ballot hodge-podge in Florida, and it resulted to benefit the central USA, whereas all the advanced and more (much more) populous states, such as California, New-York and others, just lost.

Quote from: knight on June 25, 2007, 11:02:45 PM
We are fortunate we still have what remains of the Acropolis to give us that option. It was in good condition until the 19th cent, however the main temple was used as an arsenal in the wars with the Ottomans and it blew up.

A most unfortunate incident of the Turkish-Venetian wars. The 1687 Venetian bombings resulted in the greatest by far damage the Parthenon had ever suffered after centuries of withstanding major earthquakes and human intervention. Morosini then tried to plunder the site for fallen sculpture; and his example was eminently followed by others later on.

Quote from: knight on June 25, 2007, 11:02:45 PM
There were serious plans in the middle of the 19th cent to build an enormous royal palace on the High Place and this would have involved partly clearing the site. The only thing that saved the ruins was a lack of money to enable the scheme to come to fruition.

Schinkel's designs for a royal palace on the hill of the Acropolis was one of those beautiful romantic fantasies, too extravagant or impractical to materialize. The Parthenon, Erectheion, Propylaea and the other ancient buildings weren't to be touched, but integrated into the landscaping as part of the gardens; the palace itself was to be built on the north-eastern part of the hill (where the old Acropolis musem is situated now) and it was to be lower than the Parthenon itself so as not to obscure its view from below. The young king, Otto von Wittelsbach (son of king Ludwig I of Bavaria) wasn't even remotely endowed with the financial means to pursue such a luxurious project and there were other considerations (e.g. water supply) as well as the inevitable argument against building anything new on the Acropolis that finally burried the project.

Still, it's an interesting "what if" situation to envision...

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=1GcU9OrEgdIC&pg=PA79&lpg=PA79&dq=Schinkel+acropolis&source=web&ots=uc7D-u9XWd&sig=UrW0gL9-sShuL28ki5Y86WXVj6I&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result#PPA79,M1 (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=1GcU9OrEgdIC&pg=PA79&lpg=PA79&dq=Schinkel+acropolis&source=web&ots=uc7D-u9XWd&sig=UrW0gL9-sShuL28ki5Y86WXVj6I&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result#PPA79,M1)

(http://www.tc.umn.edu/~peikx001/archive/Images/acro104.jpg)
(http://www.tc.umn.edu/~peikx001/archive/Images/acro102.jpg)
(http://www.tc.umn.edu/~peikx001/archive/Images/acro106.jpg)

Tasos, Thanks for filling that information out. It would probably have been a remarkable site with the new palace on it, but it would have so changed the site. I think it best that we see it as it is now.

Mike

Quote from: knight on August 24, 2008, 02:14:39 AM
I think it best that we see it as it is now.

I think so, too. I can't wait for the completion of the current restoration project (that will take a while) and the opening (in about a month from now) of the new Acropolis museum (http://www.newacropolismuseum.gr/).  8)

Edit: added link.

How beautiful! Do you live in Athens, Wanderer?

Lucky you. I remember how I was fascinated with Ancient Greek culture (and currently am, though not much to see here, in the USA, just Getty's Villa on
the ocean coast with a small antiquity collection), read books about the history and a lot of mythology. There was a time I even learnt gods and goddesses in English, like Zeus, Demeter, Hephaestus, Aphrodite, Hermes, Tanatos, Hades, Persephone, Geba, Hera, Hipnos, Hymenaeus, Nemesis, Artemis, Appolo, Athena, Dionysus, Hekate, Iris, Helios, some myths about Jason and his adventures for the golden fleece in Colhis (?), the statue of Athena Pallas in Troy to be stolen by Odysseus, Hercules' Labors, other heroes, creatures, and monsters....well, now I'd better stop. ;D

One of those my friends even started studying Greek, and went to Greece several times.

Quote from: Sarastro on August 29, 2008, 10:41:25 PM
How beautiful! Do you live in Athens, Wanderer?

Affirmative.

Quote from: Sarastro on August 29, 2008, 10:41:25 PM
I remember how I was fascinated with Ancient Greek culture (and currently am, though not much to see here, in the USA, just Getty's Villa on
the ocean coast with a small antiquity collection), read books about the history and a lot of mythology. There was a time I even learnt gods and goddesses in English, like Zeus, Demeter, Hephaestus, Aphrodite, Hermes, Tanatos, Hades, Persephone, Geba - you mean Gaia, the Earth goddess ? -,  Hera, Hipnos, Hymenaeus, Nemesis, Artemis, Appolo, Athena, Dionysus, Hekate, Iris, Helios, some myths about Jason and his adventures for the golden fleece in Colhis (?), the statue of Athena Pallas in Troy to be stolen by Odysseus, Hercules' Labors, other heroes, creatures, and monsters....well, now I'd better stop. ;D

One of those my friends even started studying Greek, and went to Greece several times.

That's always good to know. And you do remember too many names.  :)

Personally, I've always been slightly more drawn to medieval (Byzantine) rather than ancient history; they form a fascinating, seamless narrative  but it's mostly the ancient period that seems to fascinate people.

Quote from: Sarastro on August 29, 2008, 10:41:25 PM
in Colhis (?)

...or better, Colchis; being situated, ironically, in present day Georgia.

Quote from: Wanderer on August 30, 2008, 01:35:13 AM
That's always good to know. And you do remember too many names.  :)

Oops, actually, I just didn't check with the dictionary, it is Hebe - Hera's daughter. But was Gaia a goddess? I always thought she was one of the initial world forces that later bore Uranus the Sky, and then they produced giants, cyclopses, titans, and Aphrodite, I think, although this last one was somewhat self-standing and appeared from the Ocean...am I right?

Quote from: Wanderer on August 30, 2008, 01:35:13 AM
Personally, I've always been slightly more drawn to medieval (Byzantine) rather than ancient history; they form a fascinating, seamless narrative  but it's mostly the ancient period that seems to fascinate people.

"Medieval" Russia, or better Kievan Rus', drew almost all its culture from the Byzantines after converting into Christianity, including icons, dressing, frescoes, religion as I said, architecture, cathedrals, churches, most of the alphabet, etc. So that is probably why it doesn't look so "fresh" to me. Besides, first it was a part of the Roman Empire, if I am not in error, and later became the Ottoman Empire, and now Constantinople-Istanbul is in Turkey. On the contrary, the Ancient Greek Art was rather peculiar and later attracted immense attention and was "revived" to be Classicism. It is simple and fine with the perfect proportion, that will always attract people to it, I think. It is also famous for its mathematicians and physicists, philosophers, no wonder why people get interested in it.

Quote from: Wanderer on August 30, 2008, 01:35:13 AM...or better, Colchis; being situated, ironically, in present day Georgia.

Right, and I think Tauris (or Tavridis? Tavrida?) is present day Crimea.
How did the Greeks call Phoenicia then?

Quote from: Sarastro on August 30, 2008, 11:55:49 PM
Oops, actually, I just didn't check with the dictionary, it is Hebe - Hera's daughter. But was Gaia a goddess? I always thought she was one of the initial world forces that later bore Uranus the Sky, and then they produced giants, cyclopses, titans, and Aphrodite, I think, although this last one was somewhat self-standing and appeared from the Ocean...am I right?

Gaia and Uranus were not believed to be just some abstract initial forces, but deities proper (that personified nevertheless those cosmic forces). Note that in Hesiod's Cosmogony Gaia represents not only Earth but the material world as a whole, from which Uranus also descends/derives. As for Aphrodite's birth there exist a number of myths; Hesiod maintains that she came from Uranus (in a manner of speaking).

Quote from: Sarastro on August 30, 2008, 11:55:49 PM
"Medieval" Russia, or better Kievan Rus', drew almost all its culture from the Byzantines after converting into Christianity, including icons, dressing, frescoes, religion as I said, architecture, cathedrals, churches, most of the alphabet, etc.

The term "Byzantine" itself is a neologism to connote the Eastern Roman empire which succumbed to the Ottomans in 1453. Constantinople's official name at the time of its foundation by Constantine was New Rome, a name still to be seen in the official title of the Oecumenical Patriarch. Its role in preserving classical and late ancient (hellenistic) culture (while suffusing it with the other major force of the era, Christianity) and eventually spurring the Renaissance in western Europe cannot be stressed enough. The Ottomans were alien and hostile to all those elements, so they aren't regarded as continuing the legacy of the fallen Byzantium, rather than trying to supplant their own culture over the conquered lands.
The Slavic people that were influenced by the empire and imitated its culture are a lasting proof to its far-reaching cultural hegemony; however, Byzantine culture proper being Greek in nature (having also preserved its Roman roots in areas such as law and administration), there are considerable and fundamental differences between Byzantium and the Slavic world.

Quote from: Sarastro on August 30, 2008, 11:55:49 PM
How did the Greeks call Phoenicia then?

That's the name they used, Phoenice (Φοινίκη). Phoenos=scarlet, an allusion surely to the Phoenicians' trade of porphyra (porphyros also meaning scarlet), although the adjective precedes the name.