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The Music Room => General Classical Music Discussion => Topic started by: snyprrr on December 06, 2010, 07:49:16 PM

Title: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: snyprrr on December 06, 2010, 07:49:16 PM
I've got that Pelog scale stuck in my head, the one that sounds like Indo-Pacifica.

I'm also fond of Egyptian-sounding noodling.

And some of those modern, spectral "scales", or wot not,... they sure make dreamy chords!

Otherwise, it's straight up minor/minor harmonic.


I could to expand my pallette(?). Would you enlighten me?
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: Dax on December 06, 2010, 08:11:42 PM
Alternate tones and semitones - mode 2 (Messiaen), octatonic if you're more academically minded, diminished if you're a jazzer, Pijper scale if you're Dutch . . .
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: petrarch on December 07, 2010, 03:29:56 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on December 06, 2010, 07:49:16 PM
I could to expand my pallette(?). Would you enlighten me?

Take a look at chapter 7 of Xenakis' Formalized Music, where he explains his theory of sieves and non-octaviating scales.

Here's an example from Nomos Alpha:

http://recherche.ircam.fr/equipes/repmus/Analyse/Xenakis/
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: snyprrr on December 07, 2010, 08:24:01 AM
Quote from: petrArch on December 07, 2010, 03:29:56 AM
Take a look at chapter 7 of Xenakis' Formalized Music, where he explains his theory of sieves and non-octaviating scales.

Here's an example from Nomos Alpha:

http://recherche.ircam.fr/equipes/repmus/Analyse/Xenakis/

Haha, that page,... I can't even tell you the thoughts passing through my head,... oy, wwwwhhyyy didn't I take math seriously until now??? :'( :'( :'( uhg, I feel shame.... :'( :'( :'( I need more friends like you, haha! ;)
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: Cato on December 07, 2010, 09:13:27 AM
For regular major/minor scales, I have always liked F# minor for some reason.

For microtonal scales, a 19-tone division has been my first choice, but NOT equally divided.  Rather, I preferred using the regular 12-tones with 7 additional 1/4 tones (or 1/3 tones) to create a kind of modal microtonality.

Since I do not have access to the usual quarter-tone symbols:

+ = 1/4 higher
* = 3/4   "

e.g.

C, C+, C#, D, D# D*, E, F, F+,F#,F*,G, G#,G*, A, A+, A#, B, B+ , C
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: jowcol on December 07, 2010, 10:48:53 AM
E Dorian also floats my boat.

Raga Malkuans is my favorite Indian scale.

"Malkauns (or Malkosh) was also referred to as Malav kaushika or Kaushik in the past. It is a majestic and somewhat introverted pentatonic raga, which seems to have undergone quite a transformation over the centuries. In ragamala paintings Malkauns is frequently portrayed as a heroic lord taking pan. [I have no idea what taking pan is]Superstitious musicians describe it as a raga with supernatural powers, and some believe that it can attract evil spirits.

Ma is the pivotal tone of this raga, and the tone in which the first string of the tanpura is usually tuned. Ga, Dha and Ni may be slightly oscillated. Malkauns should be performed in a slow and dignified manner, and to bring out its ethos the notes should be linked by glides, in particular N \ D, D \ M and M \ G."
As taken from:
http://www.wyastone.co.uk/nrl/world/raga/malkauns.html (http://www.wyastone.co.uk/nrl/world/raga/malkauns.html)

(http://www.wyastone.co.uk/nrl/world/images/mad.gif)

I also like the Indian scale where you take a major scale and flatten the 2nd and 6th.

Finally, there is a Persian scale (a "major scale" with a flatted 3rd-- I know it is not major anymore) that is supposed to represents the lonely wanderer who is forever in search of warmth and comfort-- and never finds it.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: snyprrr on December 08, 2010, 06:54:49 AM
Quote from: jowcol on December 07, 2010, 10:48:53 AM
E Dorian also floats my boat.

Raga Malkuans is my favorite Indian scale.

"Malkauns (or Malkosh) was also referred to as Malav kaushika or Kaushik in the past. It is a majestic and somewhat introverted pentatonic raga, which seems to have undergone quite a transformation over the centuries. In ragamala paintings Malkauns is frequently portrayed as a heroic lord taking pan. [I have no idea what taking pan is]Superstitious musicians describe it as a raga with supernatural powers, and some believe that it can attract evil spirits.

Ma is the pivotal tone of this raga, and the tone in which the first string of the tanpura is usually tuned. Ga, Dha and Ni may be slightly oscillated. Malkauns should be performed in a slow and dignified manner, and to bring out its ethos the notes should be linked by glides, in particular N \ D, D \ M and M \ G."
As taken from:
http://www.wyastone.co.uk/nrl/world/raga/malkauns.html (http://www.wyastone.co.uk/nrl/world/raga/malkauns.html)

(http://www.wyastone.co.uk/nrl/world/images/mad.gif)

I also like the Indian scale where you take a major scale and flatten the 2nd and 6th.

Finally, there is a Persian scale (a "major scale" with a flatted 3rd-- I know it is not major anymore) that is supposed to represents the lonely wanderer who is forever in search of warmth and comfort-- and never finds it.

I like Ahir Bhiaravi. Is that it? It's the most familiar to Western ears, IMO.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: jowcol on December 09, 2010, 05:13:25 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on December 08, 2010, 06:54:49 AM
I like Ahir Bhiaravi. Is that it? It's the most familiar to Western ears, IMO.

Raga Bhairvi is different in Hindustani (northern) and Carnatic (southern) traditions.  In the Hindustani, it is the major scale with the 2nd and 6th notes flattened.  In the southern tradtion, it has different ascending and descending values.  It's a fun one to play in.


Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: jochanaan on December 10, 2010, 04:24:53 PM
I like the Arabian modes, especially the one that begins with a minor 2nd and a major 3rd (2nd Arabian mode?  I once had a table sheet of Arabian modes but can't put my hands on it right now.)  I also like to improvise on a modified Native American scale; example: A, C, D, D#, E, F#, G, A.

Alan Hovhaness was a master of Eastern scales. 8)
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: snyprrr on December 11, 2010, 09:11:36 PM
Quote from: jochanaan on December 10, 2010, 04:24:53 PM
I like the Arabian modes, especially the one that begins with a minor 2nd and a major 3rd (2nd Arabian mode?  I once had a table sheet of Arabian modes but can't put my hands on it right now.)  I also like to improvise on a modified Native American scale; example: A, C, D, D#, E, F#, G, A.

Alan Hovhaness was a master of Eastern scales. 8)

I have invented 1001 Noodle Scales! ;D

Yes, that Egyptian as you describe,.. hilarious,... all that Dick Dale stuff too, surf guitar! Gnarly!



What's the mode corresponding to the chords (in the key of G) a-minor to D-Major? The Jerry Garcia Scale? ::)





I remember looking through a book of scales and seeing ridiculous stuff like three consecutive notes, and that's it! bah-da-da,... next register, bah-da-dah,... next register,...



I find the whole tone scale kind of pointless. What's so cool about it? Please.



Is Chinese music really just pentatonic? pentatonic-with-microtones?



Can we just play Scale Stereotypes, haha? Or is it Mode Stereotypes?



Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: jowcol on December 13, 2010, 04:26:55 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on December 11, 2010, 09:11:36 PM
I have invented 1001 Noodle Scales! ;D




i  find the whole tone scale kind of pointless. What's so cool about it? Please.



Voiles by Debussy.
Impressions by Coltrane.

If it doesn't grab you, it doesn't grab you.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: AndyD. on December 13, 2010, 04:33:37 PM
Big into Eb minor and major, also droopy old Ab minor.

Love the Natural minor, but I'm way into the Pentatonic major and minor as well.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: Josquin des Prez on December 13, 2010, 04:43:05 PM
Any minor, but b and a in particular.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: snyprrr on December 13, 2010, 06:20:43 PM
Quote from: AndyD. on December 13, 2010, 04:33:37 PM
Big into Eb minor and major, also droopy old Ab minor.

Love the Natural minor, but I'm way into the Pentatonic major and minor as well.

Why the flats? I'm guessing you tune down one?

...haha, or, are you REALLY HardCore, and tune normal, but prefer to play in those torturous keys??? :P
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: snyprrr on December 13, 2010, 06:23:04 PM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on December 13, 2010, 04:43:05 PM
Any minor, but b and a in particular.

You can tell the difference in a blind hearing? Is it a guitar thing?
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: snyprrr on December 13, 2010, 06:29:21 PM
I brought this up in the "f# minor" Thread,... b minor and f# minor are two really choice keys for guitar players. Do piano players feel the same way?

I would say, going even further, that c# minor (or even g# minor) is as far into fantasyland as one can go. d#/eb minor seems to have too much of a "cloud" over it to be really really poppy. c# minor has a very searing potential, and,...yes, I'm making this up as I go along,... and I would say it IS c# minor, and not g# minor, because g# minor is too low to be The One.

So, Most Awesome "Regular" Scale?

c# minor



Well, f# minor is still really hard to beat,... especially for the Hard Stuff!
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: snyprrr on December 13, 2010, 06:35:13 PM
I'm working on this one:

E G G# C D# F# A A# C# (D)* F

*D optional
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: AndyD. on December 14, 2010, 08:00:13 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on December 13, 2010, 06:20:43 PM
Why the flats? I'm guessing you tune down one?

...haha, or, are you REALLY HardCore, and tune normal, but prefer to play in those torturous keys??? :P

I tuned down a half step (Eb Ab, etc) for many years, following the classic '70's tuning of one of my heros, Ulrich Roth. In the past year and a half I've tuned down to D, G, C, etc. mostly because of my increasing inspirational debt to Tony Iommi.

I write alot in D and G minor now, whereas roughly half of the 1st Lyraka cd was in Ab major and minor.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: karlhenning on December 14, 2010, 08:05:27 AM
D Lydian
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: DavidRoss on December 14, 2010, 09:00:41 AM
This one's nice:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51bwIm0fIHL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Otherwise I'm fond of D minor.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: karlhenning on December 14, 2010, 09:02:17 AM
Eek! "Baby carrots"! the horror! : )
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: Octo_Russ on December 14, 2010, 10:47:04 AM
D Minor for me too,

Mozart - Piano Concerto 20
Shostakovich - Symphony 5
Schubert - String Quartet 14
Mozart - Requiem
Brahms - Piano Concerto 1
Sibelius - Violin Concerto

just seems to hit the right spot for me.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: DavidRoss on December 14, 2010, 02:15:39 PM
Quote from: Octo_Russ on December 14, 2010, 10:47:04 AM
D Minor for me too,

Mozart - Piano Concerto 20
Shostakovich - Symphony 5
Schubert - String Quartet 14
Mozart - Requiem
Brahms - Piano Concerto 1
Sibelius - Violin Concerto

just seems to hit the right spot for me.
Several of my faves there, too.  8)  And the Rach 3 pc, Sibelius 6, Mahler 9, Bruckner 9, LvB 9, Prokofiev 2, Dvorak 7, RVW 8, Mozart's K 421 quartet, and Bach's D minor violin partita, 2nd cello suite, double violin cto, and Art of Fugue. 

We used to have active member who called himself D minor.  I expect he'd also agree!
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: jochanaan on December 14, 2010, 05:06:53 PM
Quote from: DavidRoss on December 14, 2010, 09:00:41 AM
This one's nice:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51bwIm0fIHL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Oh no, I don't carrot all for that one. ;D
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: jowcol on December 15, 2010, 06:49:07 AM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on December 13, 2010, 04:43:05 PM
Any minor, but b and a in particular.

I agree about preferring minors to majors.  Most of my Bach mp3 collection is sorted with the minors first.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: DavidRoss on December 15, 2010, 06:52:53 AM
Quote from: jochanaan on December 14, 2010, 05:06:53 PM
Oh no, I don't carrot all for that one. ;D
Then perhaps this will appease you:

(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSdQBrTkQmRlH0alnf7g5UZ5uBXZQKcTi94OouYIIiHZKBdqTzBqw)
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: karlhenning on December 15, 2010, 06:54:50 AM
Quote from: WikipediaTaking fully grown carrots and cutting them to make them smaller was the idea of California farmer Mike Yurosek. Yurosek was unhappy at having to discard carrots because of slight rotting or imperfections, and looked for a way to reclaim what would otherwise be a waste product. He was able to acquire an industrial green bean cutter, which cut his carrots into two lengths, and by placing these lengths into a green bean cutter, he created the original baby carrot, branded "Bunny-Luv".
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: AndyD. on December 15, 2010, 08:03:28 AM
Quote from: jowcol on December 15, 2010, 06:49:07 AM
I agree about preferring minors to majors.  Most of my Bach mp3 collection is sorted with the minors first.

That's amazing, minors first. I'm impressed.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: karlhenning on December 15, 2010, 08:06:28 AM
Baby cut carrots . . . minors . . . it's all tying in . . . .
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: AndyD. on December 15, 2010, 08:09:36 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 15, 2010, 08:06:28 AM
Baby cut carrots . . . minors . . . it's all tying in . . . .

Prélude à une carotte bébé en si mineur
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: snyprrr on December 15, 2010, 09:18:31 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 15, 2010, 08:06:28 AM
Baby cut carrots . . . minors . . . it's all tying in . . . .

:o :o :o Yessssss!!!!

(scrambles to find lost pages of Unified Field Theory)
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: snyprrr on December 15, 2010, 09:22:08 AM
But seriously guys,... does anyone have anything more exotic?

I was looking into hexachords and tetrachords, which, when I played them, sounded very much like anonymous Modern Music! And there was the "Ode to Napoleon" scale, which is vaguely Egyptian.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: karlhenning on December 15, 2010, 09:24:36 AM
I do like the scale I devised here (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,92.msg437051.html#msg437051).
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: jowcol on December 15, 2010, 10:59:56 AM
Quote from: AndyD. on December 15, 2010, 08:03:28 AM
That's amazing, minors first. I'm impressed.

Um... that makes me sound like a sexual predator....
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: AndyD. on December 15, 2010, 12:09:34 PM
Quote from: jowcol on December 15, 2010, 10:59:56 AM
Um... that makes me sound like a sexual predator....


Eeeewps. Didn't mean it that way. I find that kind of organization really different and interesting.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: DavidRoss on December 15, 2010, 12:22:45 PM
I file my collection by a simple numerical formula, [D1(NB/H)2]/D2, where:

D1=Date of publication
D2=Date of performance
N=Number of Instruments
B=Number of Bars
H=Composer's height in inches
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: jowcol on December 15, 2010, 12:33:08 PM
Quote from: DavidRoss on December 15, 2010, 12:22:45 PM
I file my collection by a simple numerical formula, [D1(NB/H)2]/D2, where:

D1=Date of publication
D2=Date of performance
N=Number of Instruments
B=Number of Bars
H=Composer's height in inches

Grateful that you didn't include other dimensions into your scoring algorithm.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: DavidRoss on December 15, 2010, 12:37:59 PM
Quote from: jowcol on December 15, 2010, 12:33:08 PM
Grateful that you didn't include other dimensions into your scoring algorithm.
Well, we wouldn't want to complicate it, would we?  How would I ever find, say, Ozawa's recording of Russo's Street Music?
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: Superhorn on December 15, 2010, 01:02:29 PM
    What I really like is a very good pay scale for work.

 
    ;)                             ;)                         ;)                          ;)
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: jowcol on December 15, 2010, 02:18:25 PM
Quote from: Superhorn on December 15, 2010, 01:02:29 PM
    What I really like is a very good pay scale for work.

 
    ;)                             ;)                         ;)                          ;)

I'd like bathroom scales that diminish my presence somewhat.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: schweitzeralan on December 15, 2010, 06:37:38 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on December 06, 2010, 07:49:16 PM
I've got that Pelog scale stuck in my head, the one that sounds like Indo-Pacifica.

I'm also fond of Egyptian-sounding noodling.

And some of those modern, spectral "scales", or wot not,... they sure make dreamy chords!

Otherwise, it's straight up minor/minor harmonic.


I could to expand my pallette(?). Would you enlighten me?


I personally like the melodic minor.  It's used in works composed during the centuries, but I particularly like the mode used a great deal by Sibelius or by Scriabin in several of his later works, Vers la flamme,' is an example.  Also Alexander Krein internalizesthe mode frequently.  Vast subject.  No "better" than any scale or mode. Yet it prevails for me personally for some unknown reason or cause.  Also the mode prevails in the piano section of the Shire film score "Zodiac." Just an example.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: snyprrr on December 15, 2010, 08:33:33 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 15, 2010, 09:24:36 AM
I do like the scale I devised here (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,92.msg437051.html#msg437051).

That does have that Xenakian sieve sound.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: jochanaan on December 15, 2010, 08:37:48 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 15, 2010, 09:24:36 AM
I do like the scale I devised here (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,92.msg437051.html#msg437051).
Cool!  A scale that needs two octaves to include all the notes in order! :D
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on December 15, 2010, 10:39:45 PM
E-flat major, and it's relative minor (C min). (Bach BWV 552 and Bruckner 8 respectively)

Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: AndyD. on December 16, 2010, 04:47:01 AM
I have a taste for the Hungarian and Phrygian minors, and of course the diminished minor. Much of these tastes were first acquired listening to Ritchie Blackmore and Ulrich Roth.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: snyprrr on December 16, 2010, 06:47:30 AM
Quote from: AndyD. on December 16, 2010, 04:47:01 AM
I have a taste for the Hungarian and Phrygian minors, and of course the diminished minor. Much of these tastes were first acquired listening to Ritchie Blackmore and Ulrich Roth.

Stargazer has a nice Middle Eastern feel to it.
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: snyprrr on December 16, 2010, 06:48:11 AM
Least Favorite Scale:

The Jerry Garcia, endless chromatic noodling scale
Title: Re: What's Your Favorite Scale?
Post by: AndyD. on December 16, 2010, 06:50:24 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on December 16, 2010, 06:47:30 AM
Stargazer has a nice Middle Eastern feel to it.


You might like Rainbow's Gates of Babylon, and Scorpions' Sails of Charon too, snyprrr.