GMG Classical Music Forum

I'm very curious to know which are your favourite operas of this great composer and a partially explicative reason for each one. Thx

(PS, I moved this topic to the Opera and Vocal board.)

My favorites are Die Frau Ohne Schatten and Salome, with Elektra not far behind. (I still have not yet heard a number of his operas, like Feursnot and Daphne.)

It didn't hurt that my first encounter with Die Frau was at the Met, in an absolutely dazzling production by the late Herbert Wernicke (and starring Deborah Voigt, conducted by Christian Thielemann). The opening set was a huge mirrored cube (i.e., no shadows!) with galactic projections from NASA on the back wall. For the home of Barak, the huge stage elevator rose up, changing the set to what looked like a grimy factory. And then, for the finale, Wernicke had the four cast members on a bare stage, and as they walked forward, every single one of the Met's lights (in the stage's lighting grid) slowly lowered, just above their heads, like the spaceship in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Amazing.

And Salome...I like the entire opera, but the final 20 minutes or so are among my favorite sequences--not just of Strauss, but of all classical music.

--Bruce

Quote from: Brewski on February 23, 2011, 07:50:11 AM
(PS, I moved this topic to the Opera and Vocal board.)

My favorites are Die Frau Ohne Schatten and Salome, with Elektra not far behind. (I still have not yet heard a number of his operas, like Feursnot and Daphne.)

Daphne is fantastic!

For me, it's Salome by a landslide. I admire Elektra, and find the score riveting, but I rarely listen to it, or much of his other operas. Strauss for me is mostly Salome, Vier Letze Lieder, Tod und Erklarung, and Eine Alpensinfonie. I think they are brilliant.

Quote from: Brewski on February 23, 2011, 07:50:11 AM
It didn't hurt that my first encounter with Die Frau was at the Met, in an absolutely dazzling production by the late Herbert Wernicke (and starring Deborah Voigt, conducted by Christian Thielemann). The opening set was a huge mirrored cube (i.e., no shadows!) with galactic projections from NASA on the back wall. For the home of Barak, the huge stage elevator rose up, changing the set to what looked like a grimy factory. And then, for the finale, Wernicke had the four cast members on a bare stage, and as they walked forward, every single one of the Met's lights (in the stage's lighting grid) slowly lowered, just above their heads, like the spaceship in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Amazing.

That sounds fascinating. Is there a video of it perchance? Die Frau is my favorite, too. I saw it staged only once in Frankfurt in a similarly surrealist production (I guess that comes with the territory). Which reminds me: I need a good recording of this. I've had Solti on my waitlist for ever, waiting for price to drop. I think that's the only uncut one, is that right?

Quote from: Mensch on February 23, 2011, 08:02:53 AM
Which reminds me: I need a good recording of this. I've had Solti on my waitlist for ever, waiting for price to drop. I think that's the only uncut one, is that right?

I believe you are correct (on Solti being complete). Solti did restore the cuts that are usually made. That said, I don't have the booklet handy to double-check.

Unfortunately, no video is available, although I am hoping, hoping, hoping, that perhaps when it returns in 2013-2014 (according to Brad Wilber's Met Futures Page (http://bradwilber.com/metfuture/)) they will do a movie theater broadcast, and then release it that way on DVD. The production is just gigantic, making full use of all the tech tricks the Met has to offer. And the sad part: Wernicke died of a lung embolism just a few months after he did this production, at only age 56. From this and the production he did for La Monnaie of Offenbach's Orphee aux Enfers, he is in my pantheon of opera directors; I wish he'd lived long enough to do many more productions.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D04E1DE143EF936A15757C0A9649C8B63

As far as recordings, both Solti and Sawallisch are uncut. I've not heard Solti's, so it may depend on which cast you prefer. I'm very happy with the Sawallisch version, which has Cheryl Studer.

[asin]B00000DNJ7[/asin]

--Bruce

I am predictable jackal's tit so I picked Elektra and Salome. I especially love how the final tragedy interrupts the joy (although kissing lips of decapitated head and murdering your mother is not maybe the happiest moment in everyone's life).

Quote from: Brewski on February 23, 2011, 07:50:11 AM
And Salome...I like the entire opera, but the final 20 minutes or so are among my favorite sequences--not just of Strauss, but of all classical music.

--Bruce

I agree totally with you, Bruce.

I picked:
Rosenkavalier - Couldn't help myself. Just so many wonderful moments. There's a reason it's so popular.
Ariadne - I really could have picked several others here, but thought this deserved a vote - wonderful opera in any case.

My favorite Ariadne memory: I went to see it at the Met, and took a woman who had never been to see an opera before. She liked it--loved it--so much that she bought a recording the very next day, and was playing it over and over for weeks.

--Bruce

Salome and Arabella. There is something endearing about girls in the search of der Richtige.

Quote from: Brewski on February 23, 2011, 07:50:11 AM
(PS, I moved this topic to the Opera and Vocal board.)

My favorites are Die Frau Ohne Schatten and Salome, with Elektra not far behind. (I still have not yet heard a number of his operas, like Feursnot and Daphne.)

It didn't hurt that my first encounter with Die Frau was at the Met, in an absolutely dazzling production by the late Herbert Wernicke (and starring Deborah Voigt, conducted by Christian Thielemann). The opening set was a huge mirrored cube (i.e., no shadows!) with galactic projections from NASA on the back wall. For the home of Barak, the huge stage elevator rose up, changing the set to what looked like a grimy factory. And then, for the finale, Wernicke had the four cast members on a bare stage, and as they walked forward, every single one of the Met's lights (in the stage's lighting grid) slowly lowered, just above their heads, like the spaceship in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Amazing.

And Salome...I like the entire opera, but the final 20 minutes or so are among my favorite sequences--not just of Strauss, but of all classical music.

--Bruce

There is a Herbert Wernickes production of Elektra on Opus Arte.  I was considering getting it, but Opus Arte's new web site no longer has clips of the blu-ray or DVD discs they sell (not that I can find, anyway) so Opus Arte more or less dropped off the radar for me.  I wonder if it is any good.

Quote from: Mensch on February 23, 2011, 08:02:53 AM
That sounds fascinating. Is there a video of it perchance? Die Frau is my favorite, too. I saw it staged only once in Frankfurt in a similarly surrealist production (I guess that comes with the territory). Which reminds me: I need a good recording of this. I've had Solti on my waitlist for ever, waiting for price to drop. I think that's the only uncut one, is that right?

Quote from: Brewski on February 23, 2011, 08:18:34 AM
As far as recordings, both Solti and Sawallisch are uncut. I've not heard Solti's, so it may depend on which cast you prefer. I'm very happy with the Sawallisch version, which has Cheryl Studer.

And on DVD, the Salzburg Festival production, also conducted by Solti, is musically uncut, though a bit of the Empress's spoken dialogue in the judgement scene is cut.  Varady and Studer also drop a word or two in those uncut CD recordings, but I suspect that was more a "heat of the moment, but that's the best 'take'" thing than a deliberate "cut".

If I have to choose just one of three, I'd go with the Sawallisch, but I wouldn't want to be without any of them.

When that Met Wernicke/Thielemann premiered in 2001, it was uncut.  Unfortunately, when it was revived two seasons later, the cuts were back.

For my favorites, I chose FroSch and Elektra, though on anohter day, or after an especially good performance, it might be Salome or Ariadne.

Fave five would be more like it. I ticked Rosenkavalier and Ariadne, because to be honest it is music from those operas which most often accompanies my life, particularly in my head. I think Salome and Elektra are the most intense and original of his operas; I have a weakness for Intermezzo and Arabella though I have seen neither in the opera house, and Capriccio is a very cohobated late concoction that I love in parts. I'm afraid I find large stretches of Die Frau ohne Schatten turgid and or inflated - Hofmannsthal's symbolist depth in this strikes me as synthetic, Strauss's music prone to longueurs and bombast.

mjwal - right on about FrOSch, it's not a good opera, despite its occasional moments of brilliance and limitless energy, it's ultimately a big bloated corpse.

I chose Salome and Capriccio, because I think these are the two most perfectly realised of his opera scores - but actually I like Rosenkavalier and Ariadne just as much if not more than Salome. Capriccio is supreme.

Woops just saw we were meant to pick the ones we liked best. Ah well, still close to my answer. I have a strong affection for almost all of them though (excepting Helena and Friedenstag).

My favourite Strausses operas are Der Rosenkavalier and Elektra; but also Die Frau ohne Schatten and Salome are very beautiful.

I personally prefer the orchestral works of Richard Strauss (tone poems, concertos, Lieders etc.), but it's interesting to see the different style of composition Strauss used in his operas, he changed from the use of chromatism, fluid tonality, motives, dissonance to that sort of tonal, manneristic Neoclassicism of his late period.

Ilaria

For me it's Der Rosenkavalier. I find some of the comedy a bit heavy handed and wearisome, but the music for the three main female characters is so sublime, I can put up with it. Indeed I would place the final sequence, from the Marschallin's entry in the 3rd Act right up to the end of the opera, high on my list of favourite moments in all opera.

By a small margin, I place Ariadne auf Naxos ahead of Salome, possibly again because of its glorious final duet, but also for the wonderfully well written character of the Composer in the Prologue.

I place Capriccio and Arabella ahead of Elektra, which, to my ears, often sounds like a lot of women screaming at each other; all a bit too overwrought and not really to my taste.

Apart from Die Aegytipsche Helene, which I once owned in the Decca recording with Gwyneth Jones,  I only know snippets of the others, and haven't really felt the urge to investigate further.

Any opera with "snot" in the title is not going to get many votes.


Quick! Recommend a good cheap Salome for a total newbie.

kthxbi

Voted Salome and Elektra. Pity that I could not chose two more: Capriccio and Daphne.

Quote from: eyeresist on September 11, 2011, 06:26:10 PM
Quick! Recommend a good cheap Salome for a total newbie.

kthxbi

http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//4318102.htm
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//4757528.htm
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//88697579112.htm

first two come with libretto, third one I think without

Quote from: Drasko on September 12, 2011, 02:02:07 AM
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//4318102.htm
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//4757528.htm
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//88697579112.htm

first two come with libretto, third one I think without

And among the three, I'd recommend the Sinopoli.

No love for Karajan?

Quote from: eyeresist on September 12, 2011, 04:42:21 AM
No love for Karajan?

In Strauss, yes, and particularly in Salome. Surely this was Behrens's most successful recording, the voice at that time perfect for Salome. To my mind, she comes second only to Welitsch in conveying that innocence mixed with depravity, so essential in the role. The rest of the cast are pretty nigh faultless too.

Nilsson, on the Solti, doesn't sound for one instant like the young girl of Strauss's imaginings. I can't comment on the Sinopoli, as I haven't heard it, though it has had a very good press. People tend to either love or hate Caballe/ Leinsdorf. I am a great admirer of Caballe, but she never sounds quite right in the role to me.

Talking of Welitsch, there is a 1943 recording of the last scene under Lovro von Matacic, which I have never heard bettered even by her. That said, try to track down the live Met broadcast from 1949 with Reiner conducting, and Welitsch at the height of her form.

Very interesting, thanks.

Quote from: eyeresist on September 12, 2011, 04:42:21 AM
No love for Karajan?

I've heard Behrens/Karajan only partially, sounded good but can't really comment. Welitsch is my favorite Salome as well, and for same reasons Tsaraslondon gave, but thought 1949 live broadcast doesn't fit 'good cheap Salome for a total newbie' requirement. Of modern recordings Studer/Sinopoli is my first choice. Studer manages to fit the character, Terfel as Jochanaan is superb and orchestra under Sinopoli is best I've heard. It's usually full priced, that mdt price is an offer.

Quote from: Drasko on September 13, 2011, 05:53:50 AM
I've heard Behrens/Karajan only partially, sounded good but can't really comment. Welitsch is my favorite Salome as well, and for same reasons Tsaraslondon gave, but thought 1949 live broadcast doesn't fit 'good cheap Salome for a total newbie' requirement. Of modern recordings Studer/Sinopoli is my first choice. Studer manages to fit the character, Terfel as Jochanaan is superb and orchestra under Sinopoli is best I've heard. It's usually full priced, that mdt price is an offer.

Well, as I said, I haven't heard the Sinopoli, though I've heard good things about it. Studer is not a favourite singer of mine, though, again, I've heard she's very good in this set.

That said, the Karajan is even cheaper at MDT. You can't really say no at that price.

http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//9668322.htm (http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//9668322.htm)

I think that the Karajan is another of his EMI recordings with odd perspectives and submerging of the voices within the orchestra. I have never been able to take Behrens, I find the voice sour and edgy.

The Sinopoli is superb, his push/pull with tempi really works in this piece, the sound picture opulent and Studer is terrific.

I very much like the Leinsdorf and enjoy Caballe's conception. It is far from generalised.

Solti I like, but as with others, I admire Nilsson more than like her and in this piece it is like asking Jessye Norman to sing Mimi. Temperamentally not any closer than the earth to the sun.

Mike

Quote from: knight66 on September 15, 2011, 12:56:55 PM
I think that the Karajan is another of his EMI recordings with odd perspectives and submerging of the voices within the orchestra.

For me, the prominence of the orchestra is a selling point. The singer should never be louder than the orchestra tutti.

This is a matter of taste, but as the singer is singing words, I want the engineering to enable me to hear them without straining. I would admit to preferring an up front balance of the voice in opera recordings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6npuasIBKn0&feature=related

I don't want that voice submerged, I want to hear all the colours of expression.

However, in some pieces I know the voice is supposed to be more integrated.....nevertheless.

Mike

Quote from: Tsaraslondon on September 11, 2011, 02:50:02 PM
For me it's Der Rosenkavalier. I find some of the comedy a bit heavy handed and wearisome, but the music for the three main female characters is so sublime, I can put up with it. Indeed I would place the final sequence, from the Marschallin's entry in the 3rd Act right up to the end of the opera, high on my list of favourite moments in all opera.

By a small margin, I place Ariadne auf Naxos ahead of Salome, possibly again because of its glorious final duet, but also for the wonderfully well written character of the Composer in the Prologue.

I place Capriccio and Arabella ahead of Elektra, which, to my ears, often sounds like a lot of women screaming at each other; all a bit too overwrought and not really to my taste.

Apart from Die Aegytipsche Helene, which I once owned in the Decca recording with Gwyneth Jones,  I only know snippets of the others, and haven't really felt the urge to investigate further.

Ariadne for the duet of all things! I think the duet is probably the weakest thing in the piece, a let down after the unbelievablly wonderful things that have preceeded it, but I have grown to admire it more recently - love all those luminous shifts in harmony. It just doesn't seem like the right apotheosis for the piece, and doesn't rise to the same level of inspiration as the rest in my opinion. Or what is it that you like so much about it?

I agree, that final duet seems clunky and it is unmemorable in comparison to what we have been treated to earlier on. It think it is a let down.

Mike

I choose Salome and Elektra because they are something absolutely special in  history of connecting words and music. Nothing compares to them.

But now i must complaint that I have no possibility to vote for unbelievable beauty of Ariadne auf Naxos, Daphne and Capriccio (especially for last scene of Capriccio).

I think that Der Rosenkavalier is absolutely perfect masterpiece,  and  that Die Frau ohne Schatten is the most ambitious intellectual effort of music theatre.

And I really appreciate Arabella and Die Liebe der Danae.

The results of this poll accurately represents my rating of Strauss operas. I have recordings of all RS operas. I have seen several of the operas in live performances and many on DVD. Strauss may not be the greatest composer, but he ranks in the top ten. His ranking among musical academics has increased significantly over the last several years.

I recently listened to Die Liebe der Danae and it is currently along with Salome and Elektra my favorite Strauss opera. Shame it is so underrated.

I still need to listen to several of the opera recordings I bought many months ago. So far I've heard Salome, Der Rosenkavalier, and Elektra. I really enjoyed these three a lot. Still have yet to hear Capriccio, Daphne, and Die Frau ohne Schatten. All with Karl Bohm conducting.