A thread devoted to suggestions on 'music appreciation' would seem appropriate - posts could include those on audiovisual offerings, books, websites, or other options. Over the last several years, my wife & I have been enjoying a number of DVD sets from the Teaching Company (http://www.teach12.com/store/courses.asp?t=&sl=&s=904&sbj=Fine%20Arts%20and%20Music&fMode=s) on music (although we've bought a number related to other topics, e.g. the Civil War for me) - we've had a number of posts in different threads from the old forum - one here (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,7450.0.html) concerning this company w/ many positive repsonses; unfortunately, their prices are not cheap - and always wait until their offerings are 'on sale' - options include DVD or CD sets, or direct downloads (each decreasingly less expensive).
The musical courses are given by Robert Greenberg - short biography here (http://www.besenarts.com/alexander/greenbergbio.htm) - he is quite enjoyable, and his courses vary from composer bios to 'in depth' music appreciation. The packages that we've purchased so far are:
How to Listen to and Understand Great Music 3rd Edition (http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursedesclong2.aspx?cid=700&pc=Search)
Understanding the Fundamentals of Music (http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursedesclong2.aspx?cid=7261&pc=Search) - coming in the mail soon!
Great Masters: Mozart—His Life and Music (http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursedesclong2.aspx?cid=752&pc=Search) - actually, they had a 'sale' and offered Haydn/Mozart/Tchaikovsky/Stravinsky as a 4-pack at a great price; we've finished Haydn & Mozart (more bio than music, but superb DVDs).
Remember that if you're interested in purchasing programs from this company, completely ignore their standard prices, these programs go 'on sale' all of the time - get on their mailing list - these are really good - :)
But, any other recommendations & comments would be helpful - ;D
Quote from: SonicMan on April 09, 2007, 07:07:47 PM
Understanding the Fundamentals of Music (http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursedesclong2.aspx?cid=7261&pc=Search) - coming in the mail soon!
Remember that if you're interested in purchasing programs from this company, completely ignore their standard prices, these programs go 'on sale' all of the time - get on their mailing list - these are really good - :)
Well, hate to be the first to post to my thread - ::) But, we did receive the Teaching Company offering above (click on the name for a link to the course) - bought on sale; as the name suggest this is pretty 'basic' but so far has been quite enjoyable, and a great review for me; we purchased the DVD set, which provides pics & videos of the instruments discussed, fingering, different ways of bowing, etc. I believe the course could be understood easily w/ just the audio options, i.e. CDs or downloads (does anyone use cassette tapes anymore?).
But, again, please use this thread to post materials & sources for musical appreciation & understanding - e.g. a compilation of classic music web sites, such as Classical Net (http://www.classical.net/) would be quite useful. :)
I haven't got much to add, SonicMan, but wanted to share my excitement at having just ordered the Beethoven Symphony and Piano Sonata set that's on sale at the moment!
I have a few other music courses from the Teaching Company and listen to them while I'm exercising - they are just the right length and make my workout much less of a bore!
When I first started learning classical music, I started by watching opera videos which had Pavarotti in them. Now I was trying to learn instrumental music.
Problem was - composer could hang the notes on the opera's story (libretto).
What happens in instrumental music? There is no "story."
One day a friend mentioned the word "sonata form." I didn't know what that was and turned to an appreciation book for a class that a different friend had given me. I was so surprised to find that there were three sections. First was a beginning section called
Exposition - composer wants you to know his music so he presents a melody and many times will repeat it for you. You are supposed to remember it. If you don't, the next section will not be as enjoyable.
Development - Remember that original melody or phrase? Now the composer is going to play around with it. He will repeat it in many different ways. You will hear it as a variation if you listen very carefully. You cannot be doing other things; this is not background music.
Recapitulation - original melody is repeated. Again, you will enjoy it more if you remember the original melody(ies). It will be like coming "home" which you are actually doing - you are coming back to the tonic key of the music.
Comments - Hopefully someone on the bb will "adopt" you. You buy the same exact recording as your adoptive parent has.
Then your "adoptive parent" will write the timings of exactly when you can hear the melody in the exposition as follows:
Track 1 00:00 - 00:30 exposition
00:31 - 02:40 development
02:41 - 03:10 recapitulation
He/she will give the timings for all the sections as seen above. All of track 1 is considered a "movement" in a symphony or concerto. Symphonies most often have 4 movements whereas concertos have 3 movements.
In the illustration above the form used is sonata form. The form for other movements can be different. I think this would be enough material to start to learn and practice. The great difficulty beginners have is knowing EXACTLY where the various parts of the sonata form begin and end. That is the reason for the exact timings on the CD tracks.
You must practice and practice this. Eventually You will be able to determine the start and finish yourself.
There are many, many exceptions to this info, but this is the nucleus.
I hope this helps some beginners and that some knowledgeable people will offer to help.
In summary, I had finally found my "story" for instrumental music; it was the form.
I know many experienced people have things to say about this post and if anyone would like to take over from here, I welcome all comments and would be so happy if they want to carry this further.
The beginner is so uncertain where the divisions of the form are. That is the reason the timings are so crucial.
I am finished with this and hope someone will carry on. I do not feel competent to go any further.
"What to listen for in Music" by Aaron Copland would seem to fit here.
Quote from: stingo on April 28, 2007, 04:16:48 AM
"What to listen for in Music" by Aaron Copland would seem to fit here.
I agree - that is a very good book.
I have not tried out any of the music courses from The Teaching Company, but I have tried two of their philosophy series ("The Great Ideas of Philosophy" and "Great Minds of the Western Intellectual Tradition"). They are excellent surveys of philosophy, and the professors are more interesting to listen to than many university professors. If the music courses are of similar quality, then they should be excellent choices. Maybe I'll order them some day when they are on sale.
Heather
Heather,
I just checked and these are on sale now:
Fine Arts and Music
Chamber Music of Mozart & Operas of Mozart (Set)
Dutch Masters: The Age of Rembrandt
How to Listen to and Understand Great Music, 3rd Edition
How to Listen to and Understand Great Music, 3rd Edition & Concerto (Set)
How to Listen to and Understand Opera
How to Listen to and Understand Opera & The Life and Operas of Verdi (Set)
Museum Masterpieces: The Louvre
Operas of Mozart
Symphonies of Beethoven
Symphonies of Beethoven & Beethoven's Piano Sonatas (Set)
The Symphony
I am trying this, "Understanding the Universe: An Introduction to Astronomy"
I am also trying this one "Classics of Russian Literature." Russian opera is some of my favorite music. Decided it was time to check out Pushkin, Onegin and a few others as they are mentioned quite a bit in opera books.
What are their "sale" prices like though? Just curious...
Quote from: stingo on April 28, 2007, 02:00:53 PM
What are their "sale" prices like though? Just curious...
Stingo - just refer back to my OP and follow the link to the Teaching Company web site - prices are given there - will depend on the format desired; I've been buying the DVD sets (a little more expensive); just look for the ones that are 'on sale' (tremendous price differences); also, if interested, get on their 'mailing list' - you'll receive plenty of catalogs & updates, esp. on sales items. Give one of the 'less expensive' sets a try to see if you like them - just to clarify, I have absolutely no relationship w/ this company, but wife & I have bought plenty (and my MIL has purchased even more!). 8)
A recent catalog of titles on sale shows that the sale prices are about 1/4 of the regular price - this is a very steep discount. Since all of the courses go on sale at some point during the year, there is no point in ever paying the regular prices unless you want something immediately and you have a lot of money to waste. As an example, the catalog lists a history course entitled "The Italian Renaissance" which consists of 36 half-hour lectures (18 hours total). DVD is $375 regular/$100 sale, CD is $270 regular/$70 sale, and cassette is $200 regular/$50 sale.
Check out their website: http://www.teach12.com/
Heather
I'd just like to say that those sale prices are not fake or contrived merchandising scams.
At one time there were no sale prices and one had to actually pay the full amount for a course. I have several of those non-sale courses. Their price tested one's commitment to learn about classical music. They were worth it though.
Not sure that I meant this thread to be limited to 'classical' music, but the last couple of nights, we watch several superlative documentaries on 20th century American popupar music, so if that genre may be of interest these DVDs are outstanding (BTW, CLICK on the images for comments):
Richard Rodgers The Sweetest Sounds & Harold Arlen ..Over the Rainbow - :)
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51GQHYXXR8L._AA240_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Richard-Rodgers-Sweetest-Sounds/dp/B00005UM4B/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-8474919-9564165?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1181014714&sr=1-1) (http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Y3X0ET67L._AA240_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Somewhere-Over-Rainbow-Harold-Arlen/dp/1572525797/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-8474919-9564165?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1181015015&sr=1-1)
TTT! ;) 8) The Teaching Company (http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursedesclong2.aspx?cid=753&id=753&pc=Fine%20Arts%20and%20Music) Great Masters: Tchaikovsky—His Life and Music w/ Robert Greenberg - we are just finishing up this DVD bio - Greenberg is outstanding, as usual - he's having a BLAST w/ PT's 'homosexuality & the women in his life' - there are a lot of musical excerpts, but this biography series concentrates more on the composer's life than compositions - CLICK on the link above for more details - and again these always go on sale (we bought a 4-composer DVD pack) - :D
Quote from: Anne on April 27, 2007, 09:02:21 AM
...Exposition - composer wants you to know his music so he presents a melody and many times will repeat it for you. You are supposed to remember it. If you don't, the next section will not be as enjoyable.
Development - Remember that original melody or phrase? Now the composer is going to play around with it. He will repeat it in many different ways. You will hear it as a variation if you listen very carefully. You cannot be doing other things; this is not background music.
Recapitulation - original melody is repeated. Again, you will enjoy it more if you remember the original melody(ies). It will be like coming "home" which you are actually doing - you are coming back to the tonic key of the music...
A very clear, concentrated explanation, with one glaring omission: The
exposition almost always plays
two melodies in different keys, not just one. When there is only one melody, it's repeated in a different key. The contrast between two themes or keys is an essential element of sonata form, and adds drama to instrumental forms. In the recapitulation, the two melodies are often, but not always, in the same key, as if "the two become one." ;D
Quote from: jochanaan on July 05, 2007, 08:41:10 AM
A very clear, concentrated explanation, with one glaring omission: The exposition almost always plays two melodies in different keys, not just one. When there is only one melody, it's repeated in a different key. The contrast between two themes or keys is an essential element of sonata form, and adds drama to instrumental forms. In the recapitulation, the two melodies are often, but not always, in the same key, as if "the two become one." ;D
Hi Jochanaan,
Thanks for your comments. I am always happy for correction as then I learn. I knew there could be 2 different melodies in the Exposition but didn't know they are often in different keys. I also didn't know that if only one melody, that it is usually presented in one key then repeated in a different key. Did I say this correctly?
I was trying to use just one melody to keep it simple for the beginner (which I am also! ;D). Later someone more proficient (like you :)) could explain how it goes with two different melodies in the exposition.
Does Bruckner's fourth symphony use only one melody in the first movement?
Thanks for your information.
Quote from: Anne on April 27, 2007, 09:02:21 AM
...What happens in instrumental music? There is no "story."
One day a friend mentioned the word "sonata form." ...
Hi Anne,
Theme-based listening (as far as I know) is not how the average person (or even musician) perceives music. Sonata form, at least according to Charles Rosen is observed more in the breach than the rules, since so many sonatas and symphonies transcend them. The same goes for fugues, even those written by Bach.
Form in general is based on a law of averages deduced by theoreticians,
after the fact.
Intuitive listening first of all feels a kind of pacing. In music terminology this is called
harmonic rhythm, or the rate of change of chords according to the meter. Chords that change frequently have more "movement"; those that linger on have in general a sense of wider spaces. The upper lines (in more harmonic tonal music rather than polyphonic works) compliment the lower by a tendency to depart from the tonic and eventually return "home".
So much of formal analysis has been recognized as not having much to do with the real experience of music. I mean, who is going to count measures for phrases and periods? So much silliness still goes on in music schools that pays lip service to the alleged necessity of recognizing the precise appearance of the recapitulation but in general this is not what one REALLY listens for and EXPERIENCES.
Leonard Bernstein's films are still the benchmark for popular music appreciation (at least for me). He deftly avoided posturing and lecturing while making a few relevant, interesting general points about music that could be referred to over and over again. Also his "Unanswered Question" lectures (although one might disagree about his venturing into areas of linguistics that he may have been less qualified for) get to the essence of listening. To explain music in words is like describing the taste of a banana. He is one of the few who were able to convey the experience of one medium into another with the corresponding verve and enthusiasm.
ZB
ZB
Hi ZB,
Thanks for taking the time to post. I need more time to study your remarks. It will have to wait a little while since daughter and 4 grandchildren arrive tonight to spend the week. I will reply asap.
Anne
Quote from: Anne on July 05, 2007, 05:08:17 PM
Hi Jochanaan,
Thanks for your comments. I am always happy for correction as then I learn. I knew there could be 2 different melodies in the Exposition but didn't know they are often in different keys. I also didn't know that if only one melody, that it is usually presented in one key then repeated in a different key. Did I say this correctly?
Does Bruckner's fourth symphony use only one melody in the first movement?
Thanks for your information.
Hmmm, I don't know of ANY piece that has only one theme in the exposition. It wouldn't really be sonata-form then I would think. I don't want to use the term "melody" since a theme doesn't have to be a melody. It can be highly motific as in Beethoven and Bruckner. Melody sort of implies you can sing it yadayada...
Sometimes you don't just get a theme 1 and theme 2, but theme GROUPS 1 and 2 (and then some more) like in Beethoven's 3rd and Ninth, and certainly in Mahler's works.
Convention (at least in the Classical sense) is that theme 2 should be in the relative major if theme 1 is in the minor. If theme 1 is in the major then theme 2 is in the dominant, but Beethoven often ignored that rule and afterwards people more or less obey or not obey it as they please. Connecting the two themes is a modulation bridge (sometimes my favorite part of the exposition).When the theme two cames back in the recapitulation they would (usually) in the same key as theme 1.
Bruckner's 4th Symphony has two themes in the exposition. The second one is that little lilting figure in the violins that goes short-short-LONG, short-short-short-LONG. In Bruckner's case the exposition is almost never repeated.
Free and filled with interesting, educational info:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/discoveringmusic/audioarchive.shtml
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on July 06, 2007, 01:57:18 PM
Hmmm, I don't know of ANY piece that has only one theme in the exposition. It wouldn't really be sonata-form then I would think. I don't want to use the term "melody" since a theme doesn't have to be a melody. It can be highly motific as in Beethoven and Bruckner. Melody sort of implies you can sing it yadayada...
Sometimes you don't just get a theme 1 and theme 2, but theme GROUPS 1 and 2 (and then some more) like in Beethoven's 3rd and Ninth, and certainly in Mahler's works.
Convention (at least in the Classical sense) is that theme 2 should be in the relative major if theme 1 is in the minor. If theme 1 is in the major then theme 2 is in the dominant, but Beethoven often ignored that rule and afterwards people more or less obey or not obey it as they please. Connecting the two themes is a modulation bridge (sometimes my favorite part of the exposition).When the theme two cames back in the recapitulation they would (usually) in the same key as theme 1.
Bruckner's 4th Symphony has two themes in the exposition. The second one is that little lilting figure in the violins that goes short-short-LONG, short-short-short-LONG. In Bruckner's case the exposition is almost never repeated.
Hi Perfect Wagnerite,
I am very interested in what you are saying but I need more time as my grandchildren are here for the week. I also need to find that little lilting phrase in the Bruckner 4th sym. first movement. If it's ok, I will answer a little later as soon as I am able. Thanks very much for replying.
Anne
Quote from: Grazioso on July 07, 2007, 03:58:50 AM
Free and filled with interesting, educational info:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/discoveringmusic/audioarchive.shtml
Hi Grazioso,
Thanks very much for that URL. It looks to be helpful. I appreciate your suggestion and will use it.
Anne
Well, I've been 'warned' not to post to this thread - thought that this might have been a repository of 'materials' (whether books, videos, DVDs, etc.) related to learning about music (classical or non-classical); tonight, I'm watching a Teaching Company history of art series (not really applicable) - but just wondering if anyone might add to this thread, mainly as a 'source' for being educated about music, regardless of the media - :D
My most recent 'musical' addition would be The New Bach Reader (1999) - not really a typical bio - reported on this book in the 'reading thread' but had basically no response, so thought that I put the reference here also! :)
At any rate, if you've found new musical educational sources (that do not fit neatly into our other threads), please report them here - would nice to have a list of posts that may help others just getting interest music; again, classical or non-classical comments accepted - thanks. :D
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/514PGMCQBYL._SL500_BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20_.jpg)
Tonight I have my first of five Music Appreciation classes for "Best of Friends: Brahms & Dvorak" at the Manitoba Conservatory of Music.
Very much looking forward to it!
:)
I'm not sure if this quite fits but... if you attend concerts you might want to see if there's some kind of talk or lecture beforehand about the music you'll be hearing. Philadelphia now does this on a regular basis, and I find it informative.
Quote from: stingo on April 23, 2008, 07:14:27 AM
I'm not sure if this quite fits but... if you attend concerts you might want to see if there's some kind of talk or lecture beforehand about the music you'll be hearing. Philadelphia now does this on a regular basis, and I find it informative.
Yes, our conductor does this also for our city's orchestra, for the Masterworks programs.
Music appreciation. Yes. That explains a lot. This constant pull away from the music itself into biography or even form (look at zamyrabyrd's post for a hint about how studying form can pull you away from the music itself)--that may be why so many people have so much trouble with music past 1909, say. The music appreciation books, CDs, DVDs, et cetera, don't really go much into the twentieth century, not in any very real or systematic way. Plus they instill ideas and attitudes about music that make certain historical practices seem more like THE TRUTH than like simply what people did then. Simplifies and codifies tonality and its patterns into "this is the only way to make music that's of any value."
Reminds me of my last boss where I worked as a rewrite editor for software developers. He had very strong opinions about writing and language, almost all of them wrong, almost all of them straight from third grade. Oh the perils of education, eh? If the teacher, whatever the subject, is trying to teach you how to think, all will be well. But if the purpose is to fill your supposedly empty brain with knowledge and the correct opinions, then "LOOK OUT!! DANGER!!!"
I've been listening to music for about fifty two or fifty three years, Forty nine of those to classical, mainly. (Whatever "classical" means.) I have Gregorian chant and Diamanda Galas in my collection. I enjoy Zbigniew Karkowski's abrasive electronics and Antonio Vivaldi's sacred choral music. I listen with delight and intelligence (according to me, anyway) to My Cat is an Alien and to Bach's St. Matthew Passion. And everything (meaning quite a lot of things) in between.
That's just my short vita for giving you some advice about music. You may prefer Greenberg still, but here's mine:
LISTEN.
Quote from: ChamberNut on April 23, 2008, 10:26:57 AM
So, I like Brahms' & Dvorak's music, what's the big deal?
If I would have said I'm taking the music appreciation class "Adams & Golijov: Best of Friends", you wouldn't have an isssue.
::)
Not sure what you're on about here, ChamberNut. Did I ever suggest or hint or indicate that liking Brahms and Dvorak was a bad thing? Or even a good thing?
My observation was entirely about formalized music appreciation, that it perhaps has interfered with appreciation more than it has fostered it; that it has perhaps fostered the attitude that "modern" music is difficult at best, pernicious at worst. So probably more accurate to say that I would have "an isssue" with any music appreciation class. (Why Adams and Golijov, by the way? I know they're pretty famous, but that's about it.)
I thought that Bernstein's early shows for kids were pretty good. He was so obviously enthusiastic about the music. So much so, that it was a bit of a shock to hear him pronounce against atonality later on. (That that pronouncement came decades after "atonality" had ceased to be an active topic among musicians did nothing really to soften the shock, either.)
Well I came into this thread a bit late, but I order from the Teaching Company all the time. I'm half way through the "Beethoven Symphonies" course and am just soaking up knowledge. I've gone through two pencils just marking my scores.
Next up is the lectures on Mozart Operas.
Quote from: some guy on April 23, 2008, 12:42:56 PM
Not sure what you're on about here, ChamberNut. Did I ever suggest or hint or indicate that liking Brahms and Dvorak was a bad thing? Or even a good thing?
My observation was entirely about formalized music appreciation, that it perhaps has interfered with appreciation more than it has fostered it; that it has perhaps fostered the attitude that "modern" music is difficult at best, pernicious at worst. So probably more accurate to say that I would have "an isssue" with any music appreciation class. (Why Adams and Golijov, by the way? I know they're pretty famous, but that's about it.)
I thought that Bernstein's early shows for kids were pretty good. He was so obviously enthusiastic about the music. So much so, that it was a bit of a shock to hear him pronounce against atonality later on. (That that pronouncement came decades after "atonality" had ceased to be an active topic among musicians did nothing really to soften the shock, either.)
Fine, I deleted that post.
Well, TTT again! ;D No posts for a year - please contribute - just nice to have a good 'collection' of recommendations, regardless of the media (i.e. DVDs, books, websites, etc.) that might relate to musical appreciation. :)
But, this time a new book edition - A History of Western Music, 8th edition (2010) - this is my third purchase of this volume (last one was the 4th edition, 20 yrs ago!) - Donald Grout & Calude Palisca are now deceased; J. Peter Burkholder from Indiana University is the current 'living' author; from Norton, so not cheap ($50 for me on the Amazon Marketplace) + basically, a college type textbook - love the new format w/ plenty of pictures, sidebars, and other features common to more modern texts; plus, Norton has a website w/ plenty of information related to the book (I've not yet explored all of these possibilities) - just through the first 2 chapters, but expect to enjoy! :D
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/505138935_57mkK-S.jpg)
A 6 class music appreciation class, starting tonight entitled "The Heart of Tchaikovsky".
Looking forward to it! :)
Quote from: SonicMan on April 04, 2009, 03:33:59 PM
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/505138935_57mkK-S.jpg)
:o
It's a terrific reference work and a valuable book to have on the shelf, but way too dry for me to be
enjoyable reading.
Quote from: Szykniej on September 14, 2009, 05:16:26 PM
:o
It's a terrific reference work and a valuable book to have on the shelf, but way too dry for me to be enjoyable reading.
Tony - LOL! ;D Took me MONTHS to get through this 'new' edition; this is a college text and would likely encompass two courses, so a long read and indeed can be somewhat 'dry'; but there is such a wealth of information and the new volume is beautifully produced in terms of format & pictures; there was access also to a lot of 'online' material which I did not do - not sure a recommendation for a casual reader or one wanting an 'easy' introduction to Western Music - Dave :)
Quote from: SonicMan on September 14, 2009, 05:27:09 PM
Tony - LOL! ;D Took me MONTHS to get through this 'new' edition; this is a college text and would likely encompass two courses, so a long read and indeed can be somewhat 'dry'; but there is such a wealth of information and the new volume is beautifully produced in terms of format & pictures; there was access also to a lot of 'online' material which I did not do - not sure a recommendation for a casual reader or one wanting an 'easy' introduction to Western Music - Dave :)
:)
It was my freshman college music history textbook, and 30 years later I still have Groutmares! ;D
My copy has so much highlighting, it looks like there are spots of white on yellow pages. ;)
Lately I have been trying to read Rosen's The Classical Style. I find it extremely difficult to get through.
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on September 15, 2009, 05:48:08 AM
Lately I have been trying to read Rosen's The Classical Style. I find it extremely difficult to get through.
Well, a 6-month or so delay, but I agree w/ you concerning the Rosen book - believe that I've bought this as a paperback at least twice and could never finish getting through it! I'm thinking of getting the book a third time since mention has been made in some of the classical threads, but I'm sure the same will happen - :-\
For me, a 'new'
Teaching Company set (pic attached) -
Bach & High Baroque w/
Robert Greenberg - just finishing up the first 2 DVDs (8 discs in all!) - now, Susan & I have purchased many of this company's products (of all different topics) - this one is probably from the mid-90s (Greenberg still had dark hair and was using those yellow note pads), but is just excellent so far! :)
Quote from: SonicMan on May 09, 2010, 03:07:26 PM
For me, a 'new' Teaching Company set (pic attached) - Bach & High Baroque w/ Robert Greenberg - just finishing up the first 2 DVDs (8 discs in all!) - now, Susan & I have purchased many of this company's products (of all different topics) - this one is probably from the mid-90s (Greenberg still had dark hair and was using those yellow note pads), but is just excellent so far! :)
I have it and listen to it often. The analysis of the Goldberg Variations is fantastic as are the Brandenburg lectures. Well, they're all good. I havent had a bad course yet from Dr. Greenberg. Working my way through the LvB String Quartet lectures now.
Quote from: hornteacher on May 09, 2010, 05:41:57 PM
I have it and listen to it often. The analysis of the Goldberg Variations is fantastic as are the Brandenburg lectures. Well, they're all good. I havent had a bad course yet from Dr. Greenberg. Working my way through the LvB String Quartet lectures now.
Yes, I'm thinking about that LvB SQ set next - now have two complete sets of these works, one w/ the Alexander SQ (new one) which I believe Greenberg uses in this course; apparently they have been working together since the 1980s or so? :)
Quote from: SonicMan on May 09, 2010, 03:07:26 PM
Well, a 6-month or so delay, but I agree w/ you concerning the Rosen book - believe that I've bought this as a paperback at least twice and could never finish getting through it! I'm thinking of getting the book a third time since mention has been made in some of the classical threads, but I'm sure the same will happen - :-\
All I can say is that it's worth the time and effort, Dave. It utterly transformed the way I thought about and listened to music of the Classical era. I agree, it isn't an easy read for us musical amateurs. It helped that I read it shortly after I'd taken a music theory class at the U of Akron. At least I knew what a diminished seventh was ;D
But I understand your hesitation, and share it. I have a first edition of Rosen's
The Romantic Generation. Bought it when it was first published--14 years ago. I haven't even started it. I should take my own advice and get cracking.
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 10, 2010, 04:45:05 AM
All I can say is that it's worth the time and effort, Dave. It utterly transformed the way I thought about and listened to music of the Classical era. I agree, it isn't an easy read for us musical amateurs. It helped that I read it shortly after I'd taken a music theory class at the U of Akron. At least I knew what a diminished seventh was ;D
But I understand your hesitation, and share it. I have a first edition of Rosen's The Romantic Generation. Bought it when it was first published--14 years ago. I haven't even started it. I should take my own advice and get cracking.
Hello
Sarge - yep, I've been contemplating getting another copy of the Rosen book for the 3rd time! :D
Although the
Greenberg Beethoven SQs Set lasts about twice as long as the actual performance of the works, I've really enjoyed him in a number of other courses (including the Bach that I'm currently viewing on DVD) - will likely make a purchase! Dave :)
I'm currently have a classical music program for residents at a nursing home in New Rochelle,just north of New York . They're mostly elderly and infirm people who already enjoy classical music, and I play a wide variety of classical CDs for them, including many lesser-known but worthwhile works by a wide variety of composers.
I tell them about the composers and their works, giving them background information and some biographical information.
I play virtually anything from Baroque to contemporary music, orchestral music,chamber works, etc, and sometimes play excerpts from complete operas while telling them the plots. As well as the familiar masterpieces by Bach,Handel,
Haydn,Mozart,Beethoven, Schubert,and Brahms etc, I've also given them the chance to hear interesting off-beat repertoire by composers such as Roussel, Nielsen, Janacek, Szymanowski,Myaskovsky,Martinu,Berwald,Korngold,Balakirev, Medtner,
Pfitzner,Franz Schmidt, etc and even contemporary composers such as Carter,Boulez, Glass, etc.
They really enjoy my program. I usually have between six and a dozen residents at each session, but I'm always trying to get more to come, with fitful results.
Previously,I did a similar program at United Cerebral Palsy on Long Island where I used to live,and my audience was often considerably larger.
I'm hoping to expand my programs to ther venues,such as public schools and libraries or elsewhere,this time trying to reach people who know little or nothing about classical music.
Quote from: SonicMan46 on May 10, 2010, 02:51:31 PM
Hello Sarge - yep, I've been contemplating getting another copy of the Rosen book for the 3rd time! :D
Although the Greenberg Beethoven SQs Set lasts about twice as long as the actual performance of the works, I've really enjoyed him in a number of other courses (including the Bach that I'm currently viewing on DVD) - will likely make a purchase! Dave :)
BOY! Nearly one of the last posts to this thread was between
Sarge & me concerning
Robert Greenberg's set on the
Beethoven SQs - this was well over a year ago! Procrastination seems to be so human!
Well, Susan & I are frequent purchasers from the Teaching Company (now Great Courses), so just received a 'personal' letter w/ a special code and had not purchased any courses in a while but decided on a visit!
After looking at the discount w/ the code, I decided on buying Greenberg's courses on the
Beethoven SQs & also
Mozart's Chamber Music - the combination cost just $90 w/ my discount - looking forward to both of these presentations (ordered the DVD sets) - pics attached for those interested; if you've purchased from this company before and have received a letter w/ a discount code, visit their site, the savings is quite substantial - :)
My wife and I listened to a lot of Robert Greenberg's courses in the car while traveling back and forth to work each day.
Several years ago we were listening to his Brahms lectures on our way to visit a relative in another state and we got so engrossed we missed our exit and ended up about a half hour out of our way.
My favorite moment from Greenberg's lectures was in the course on Concertos where he analysed Brahms' Second Piano Concerto and explained (with examples) how one three-note sequence was given so many different permutations. That was fascinating.
My grandfather keeps telling me I should teach a class on 20th Century music and I keep telling him over and over that if I want to be a professor I have to have a degree. He should know better, he has two Master's degrees. ::)
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 22, 2011, 11:03:26 AM
My grandfather keeps telling me I should teach a class on 20th Century music and I keep telling him over and over that if I want to be a professor I have to have a degree. He should know better, he has two Master's degrees. ::)
You likely could! :) I just ended my academic medical career at the end of this June - 34 yrs teaching radiology residents; probably helped train 500 or more radiologists over those years - miss my daily contact w/ these young people and will need to find some other activities (like collecting more CDs! ;) ) - 8)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on August 22, 2011, 12:00:59 PMwill need to find some other activities (like collecting more CDs! ;) ) - 8)
I approve this message! :D
Quote from: SonicMan46 on August 22, 2011, 12:00:59 PM
Yand will need to find some other activities (like collecting more CDs! ;) ) - 8)
NOOOOOO!
Well, yet again - no activity for over a year! :(
But not sure 'where' to put this new arrival from the Teaching Company - a new lecture series:
How Music & Mathematics Relate w/ David Kung, Ph.D - a professor of mathematics but also a violinist since the age of 4 yrs - I've watched the first four of 12 lectures (each 45 mins) - fascinating approach to the basics of music, but requires a decent understanding of math & also knowing how to read music will help (I had 3 yrs of accordion as an adolescent - in fact just bought a new 'cheap' one and am playing again!). More information HERE (http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=1373) - has a listing of the 12 lecture titles, for those interested. No reviews yet on the site - bought the DVD set (highly recommended choice) on sale - Dave :)
(http://secureimages.teach12.com/tgc/media/courses/361x269/1373.jpg) (http://www.smcm.edu/news/_assets/images/2010/10-059%20Kung-Violin.jpg)
Quote from: Superhorn on May 12, 2010, 03:02:30 PM
I'm currently have a classical music program for residents at a nursing home in New Rochelle,just north of New York . They're mostly elderly and infirm people who already enjoy classical music, and I play a wide variety of classical CDs for them, including many lesser-known but worthwhile works by a wide variety of composers.
I tell them about the composers and their works, giving them background information and some biographical information.
I play virtually anything from Baroque to contemporary music, orchestral music,chamber works, etc, and sometimes play excerpts from complete operas while telling them the plots. As well as the familiar masterpieces by Bach,Handel,
Haydn,Mozart,Beethoven, Schubert,and Brahms etc, I've also given them the chance to hear interesting off-beat repertoire by composers such as Roussel, Nielsen, Janacek, Szymanowski,Myaskovsky,Martinu,Berwald,Korngold,Balakirev, Medtner,
Pfitzner,Franz Schmidt, etc and even contemporary composers such as Carter,Boulez, Glass, etc.
They really enjoy my program. I usually have between six and a dozen residents at each session, but I'm always trying to get more to come, with fitful results.
Previously,I did a similar program at United Cerebral Palsy on Long Island where I used to live,and my audience was often considerably larger.
I'm hoping to expand my programs to ther venues,such as public schools and libraries or elsewhere,this time trying to reach people who know little or nothing about classical music.
Well a very belated God bless you and I am sure He will.